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April 27, 2004

Comments

Bucky Katt

It appears you've made a slight mis-interpretation of his DD-214's. The first DD-214 covers his initial reserve time, not just OCS: a total of 9 months 28 days. Six months and 1 day of that time was spent in the reserves as an enlisted. 3 months 27 days was the time he spent in OCS at Newport, RI. After accepting his commission on 15 Dec 66 he is discharged out of the reserves and placed on active duty.

The second DD-214 covers the period from 16 Dec 66 till his transfer off active duty and back into the Reserves on 3 Jan 70.

Both DD-214's annotate his reserve obligation as being through 17 Feb 72. So where's the documentation for those those 2 years? I believe this is the question that John Moore has repeatedly bought up.

TM

John Moore got me started on this, way back here, but now I am on auto-obsess.

Marty B. O'Malley

There is nothing cryptic about a DD 214. Every military service person is issued one upon separation from active duty.
In the case of GW Bush, his is missing in action--lost and never made public to this day. Hopefully the recent interest in the minutia of Kerry's military record will help people like you realize that Bush's military record has gaping holes of monumental proportion. Bush's military record is NOT public as claimed.
For details check out bloggers Altios and Daily Kos.

Lee Rodgers

The term "temporary rank" reflects a discontinued practice from earlier years when an officer was promoted but was vulnerable to lose that rank if there were a decreased need for someone at that rank. (Remember the demobilization after WWII.)They would at the same time have a "permanent rank" which was the lowest they could be reduced to. This practice has since been dropped and now when you are promoted, that is your only rank.

Mahatma

Oh Marty...

The issue with Kerry's service is not going to be 'balanced' by finding an issue with Bush's service.

Bush needs to defend his service record and Kerry needs to explain his. People can make their own minds up whether these issues are even relevant. Bush needs to explain why he allowed his flying status to lapse when he didn't show up for his physical and any gaps, real or imagined, in his service. Kerry needs to explain why he was meeting in Paris with a sworn enemy of the United States while he was a reserve officer in the Navy.

If these issues do not matter to you that's fine, vote your conscience. But one does not automatically balance the other except in a very partisan (or simple) mind.

JeanneB

TM:
While you're on auto-obsess could you please check out something else for me?

There are 3 different citations for Kerry's Silver Star. The (assumed) first, signed by Adm. Zumwalt, is not among the documents Kerry put on his website. (It's at http://news.findlaw.com/legalnews/lit/election2004/docs.html) The two citations provided by Kerry's website are signed by Admiral Hyland and John Lehman, Sec. of the Navy.

John Lehman. Secretary of the Navy. From 1981 to 1987!!! Kerry was in Viet Nam in 1968-69. Why would Lehman have signed Kerry's citation so many years later? The very same years when Kerry was changing his story to say he HAD NOT thrown his medals away.

Did Kerry perhaps apply during Lehman's tenure for some replacement medals?

TM

Altios seems to have left us.

Only one of the two candidates is running on his Vietnam era record, and almost nothing else.

Or, I should say, parts of his Vietnam era record.

I'm delighted that there is nothing cryptic about a DD214 - if that is the only possible explanation for the Kerry camp confusion, then I guess there is no explanation.

Pouncer

There's a few other details to work into the timeline.

From that old Harvard Crimson interview
(still available at http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1075941/posts
among other places)

"In August through November, 1968, Kerry was trained to be the skipper of a patrol boat for Vietnamese rivers. For the next five months, until April of 1969, Kerry was the commanding Lieutenant of a patrol boat in the Mekong Delta. "

From April thru September I lose track of him. But
in October 1969, while still on active duty...

"Kerry is a pilot, and on October 14 and 15 [1969] he flew Ted Kennedy's advisor Adam Walinsky by private plane throughout the State of New York so that Walinsky could give speeches against the Vietnam War. But Kerry was smart enough not to put down "Moratorium" on the Navy signout sheet for that Tuesday and Wednesday. "


The following month, again while still in active duty status, Kerry decided to run for Congress on his own.

"Now 26, he was honorably discharged from the Navy last month [ i.e. January 1970] but has been laying the groundwork for the race ever since November. [of 1969] "

Presumably Kerry spent December 1969, and the Christmas holidays either with his family, or serving his country for the Navy to allow some OTHER young officer to visit his family. I have no data.

The first of January 1970 Kerry, having had no assignments of note and accomplishing very little for the past six months, was (temporarily? ) promoted.

Uhm, I'm not sure I follow the logic on this next. So angered and frustrated by his promotion and the trust and authority the Navy had vested in him ... he requested a discharge? Does that make sense?

Then in February he shows up for the Harvard Crimson interview.

On what date did he file his campaign paperwork?

When did Lt Kerry discuss "Hatch Act" provisions with his JAG or legal affairs officer, so as to be sure he wasn't in violation of Navy Regs, Massachusetts and Federal Law? I mean, I thought the Hatch Act directed military members not be candidates for public office in partisan elections orengage in political activity while wearing an official uniform and a few other subtle things. A careful and thoughful officer wouldn't risk his career in either politics or the Navy without getting such counsel, would he? When did that happen, and is there a record?

Patrick R. Sullivan

"Bush needs to explain why he allowed his flying status to lapse when he didn't show up for his physical and any gaps, real or imagined, in his service."

Bush has already explained why he missed his physical, and several ANG officers have backed him up; he wasn't flying, the ANG didn't need him to fly because they had a glut of pilots returning from Vietnam all competing for available cockpit hours, and with the Vietnam war winding down, Bush made plans to get on with his life, i.e. Harvard Business School.

There is no gap in Bush's military record. He showed up and met his drill obligation. Contrary to Kerry who blew off his Ready Reserve obligation. This whole thing about comparing military records from over 30 years ago is Genius John's idea. Fine, be careful what you wish for....

Patrick R. Sullivan

"I thought the Hatch Act directed military members not be candidates for public office in partisan elections orengage in political activity while wearing an official uniform "

I think the Hatch Act applied only to Civil Service employees. Barry Goldwater held an Air Force Reserve commission (Col., I believe) while serving as Senator from Arizona.

WillieStyle

Only one of the two candidates is running on his Vietnam era record, and almost nothing else.

The scores are 1.0 1.1 1.2 and a -93201984021849 from the Hungarian judge on the integrity meter.
Welcome to Hackdomn, population Micheal Moore, Ann Coulter and a certain Minuteman.

Bucky Katt

TM Sez:
"I'm delighted that there is nothing cryptic about a DD214 - if that is the only possible explanation for the Kerry camp confusion, then I guess there is no explanation."

It really depends upon if the person who is interpreting the DD-214 knows what he/she is looking at. My guess is the Kerry PR boys and girls can't fully interpret what they are looking at.

TM

Ann's gonna dig me a lot more than Michael.

Richard Frankovch

By now it is clear that Kerry was an actual Reserve Naval Officer on standby or inactive reserve duty during the first part of the 1970's and during his key anti-war "civilian" years. The question now seems to be one of Federal law. To what extent can a reserve military officer (not on active duty) engage in pro-enemy activity in time of war or during a period of military action? If it can be shown that Kerry violated the letter or spirit of US law, it would call into question on a moral level and perhaps a legal level, the "honorable" nature of his final discharge as an 0-3 later in the 70's. (Democrats should be reminded of the pain General Washington is reported to have felt upon hearing that the hero Arnold had aided the enemy at West Point during the "controversisal war" of the 1770's.) Clearly, a "hero" in America never earns a permanent place honor. His subsequent actions are always be held to scrutiney.

lumper20

How does anyone get a civilian GS-12 to sign a DD214? Yes, I do understand dates of rank can be wrong on any DD214 for officers as you have a temp. DOR to pay grade grade O-3 that is almost four years earlier then the permanent DOR by the reserves/USAR or USNR. All the records show is nothing is absolutely factual as some clerk typist does the transposition from an offier's DA 66 in the Army or whatever is the Navy equivalent and nothing is going to always be 100% transposed accurately all the time. The real questions are:
1. Did John Kerry leave his men in harm's way without being flat on his back and/or having wounds or a wound so serious as to require being medivaced out of Vietnam? That answer is an obvious NO.
2. Did John Kerry act like an officer while assigned to inactive standby reserves? That answer again is NO.

lumper20

How does anyone get a civilian GS-12 to sign a DD214? Yes, I do understand dates of rank can be wrong on any DD214 for officers as you have a temp. DOR to pay grade grade O-3 that is almost four years earlier then the permanent DOR by the reserves/USAR or USNR. All the records show is nothing is absolutely factual as some clerk typist does the transposition from an offier's DA 66 in the Army or whatever is the Navy equivalent and nothing is going to always be 100% transposed accurately all the time. The real questions are:
1. Did John Kerry leave his men in harm's way without being flat on his back and/or having wounds or a wound so serious as to require being medivaced out of Vietnam? That answer is an obvious NO.
2. Did John Kerry act like an officer while assigned to inactive standby reserves? That answer again is NO.

Jeff

I am interested in who gave Kerry his metals and what rational they used.

It smells of a lot of political good old boys (Kennedy) seeing to it that Kerry got a pack of metals and there was no real reason (but political) he deserved them.

I would give a lot to find out who insisted that Kerry should get his metals besides Kerry.

Much of Kerry's behavior is explaned by people that were with him or had primary knowledge of his actions and it isn't good. Kerry's own book is no where to be found and I hear it is very incriminating. Why aren't we hearing from the ones that were there along with the lower officers that were involved in Kerry's citations. No one seems to know who gave Karry his metals except Kerry.

Most people with a brain know Kerry's purple hearts are a sham, why not his Bronze and Silver.

Please see what you can find out.

Jeff

Don

1. All Reserve Officers have temporary rank. Only regular officers are immediately promoted to permanent grade. All Lts. and Ens. that are not academy graduates have temporary rank.
So much for that question.
The real question is how Kerry managed to award himself three Purple hearts in three months? Remember he was on a river boat and the only officer aboard! All he had to do was tell a corpsman the next time in port that he was injured by enemy action and sign the statement!
Have you seen the list of Medal of Honor winners that have come out against him?

Steve

Unfortunately, the Kerryistas have removed the documents from their website. Oh well.

John

Did you try looking in the memory hole?

In any case, it should be noted that Bush is a total nincompoop.

Jim

Only thig that makes since is that either will say what ever it takes to get your vote. See thourgh the bull and filtered info.
Bush was a pilot, OK, Kerry was in the Navy. OK Kerry seams to have forgotten his comrades by his votes in the senate. We are voting on who he is today, not 1969. Kerry is a lot like Clinton with his anti american ways. Moral, ?? or not. Bush has always been faithful to america, always. Bush sent our troups to Iraq after the senate and congress voted to. The info he had was supplied by the same intel that congress and the senate had. Kerry voted to send the troups, then voted not to support them. What does that tell you. What man that served in our armed forces whould let his oun countries troups down after sending them into action? Purple Heart, that is what he has lost. Would he bleed today for his country, would he die. He won't even pay the bill. Kerry is not what we need in this trying time of WAR. Employment, finacial and world opion. Any one leading this country after 9-11 would have had teh same problems. Bush has done very well, bettter than a Kerry or even Gore could ever have. 9-11 cost me more than 30% of my pay, maybe my job yet. I don't like Bush, but I like Kerry even less, mush less. Kerry's whole history is a big ?. I don't trust him, I don't think he even knows what he stands for.

Mike

One went Canada than Russia, the other went for four months and received enough awards for a twenty year career, than to Paris to do what??

jagged68

I was in the KY army National Guard from 86-98. You can even check my DD214. My unit was called to war 11/16/1990 for the first Persian Gulf war. I hated every minute of the time I was overseas but I never made up stories to tell Congress about atrocities. I never voted against funding for the troops or to de-fund the CIA and other intelligence agencies. I twisted my ankle jumping out of the back of a C141 on the runway at Daharan Air Base in Saudi Arabia but I never applied for a purple heart for it.
But, I think what should concern people more is what the two candidates are going to do now?
It is true that George Bush was President during the largest deficit ($477 Billion) our country has ever seen. But what would you expect? He had to pay for cleaning up the mess made by 2 70 story buildings coming down, beefing up security in airports and elsewhere, starting the Homeland Security office, going to war and everything that entails. But does Kerry think he could have done better? Would he used his own money to pay for these things or not paid for them at all? I have never agreed with the reasons W sent us to war but I sure as hell agree with going and 20 million people in Iraq agree. Kerry says that he will bring into the public coffers $860 billion over 10 years by returning people who make over $200K back to pre-2000 tax rolls. But the he wants to pay $620 billion over 10 years for socialized medicine, $200 billion over 10 years to continue funding Bush's "No Child Left Behind" legislation and $20 billion to raise teachers pay over 10 years. Add in other aid packages for people who can work, but don't and over 10 years you have not only spent the $860B he raised but he has not even paid a dime towards ths deficit.
I know this a lot of meat to chew all at once but I got wound up.

Randy Bushee

Well, I was in the USAF for 20 years. Sure doesn't qualify me as CIC. How does his 4-6 year involvement make Kerry qualified. What a joke! He has crew mates totally BOZOED too. 4-6 months in VN doen't make him a hero either.

None of this is a real problem however. Teressa Heinz will lose this election for him. What a X#@%*!!

Phyllis Anderson

There isn't really much to argue. Kerry volunteered for combat, was shot at, and honorably discharged. You can see his service record. Bush avoided combat, didn't show up for some training, and was discharged. We can't find his service record. Bush pushed us into a war based on lies. Kerry voted according to available data and his conscience. Bush rushed into Iraq when the enemy was in Afghanistan. We still don't have Bin Laden despite losing over 900 service personnel. Regardless of who wins the election we will be stuck in Iraq for many years.

Tony Aultman

Kerry gave aid and comfort the enemy when he protested the war while our country was at war. Mr. Bush did not avoid the war by being in the reserves. When you say that, you insult all reservists. Half of our military is guard and reserve. When called to war, they have to go. The have no choice. If they are not called, they do not go. If Mr. Bush was in the military during a war, he receives the National Defense Medal. He did not throw his medals away.

Tony Aultman

The current deficit is the largest dollar amount, but it's not close to the largest deficit when compared to GNP. In dollars the deficit is just above the next largest ever deficit. BUT - as a percentage of GNP, it's only about half of the largest ever deficit.

Jim Bixby

I served in the Navy from 11/61 to 6/67. Got my wings in late '63 and deployed to the Far East twice between mid '64 and mid '66. Was awarded Air Medals and Vietnam Service Medal. Was I a hero? NO. I was just doing my job. Am I qualified to be CIC? Hell, no!

John Kerry was campaigning for prez as a JG on his riverboat. What other answer for all the photos and videos taken at that time.

Don k

I read some of these comments and have to wonder are people this blind or are they just so hateful they can not think.....I was serving my country when the John Kerrys were in school. I did not have that chance but I served with honor. I do not have one or three purple hearts..I have no silver star, I have no bronze star.But I have my pride and the medals I was give as a Viet Nam Vet....Which is more imporant in life......

Ben Rocke

Both Bush and Kerry have served our country. Both recieved Honarable Discharges so they fulfilled the requirements of their enlistments. I find no problem with Kerry nor Bush's military service and see this continued military record debate an attempt to confuse the public on the character of the candidates and issues that should be considered.

Bush has made public all of his military records, including evaluations from his superiors. Kerry has not made public his complete military record, despite his saying on National TV that he will. The only records he has made available is the awards of his medals. He has not revealed the evaluations of his superiors.

But more than that I question Kerry's character for this reason. He claimed to be a witness of or have heard stories of autrocities in Vitenam. As an officer it was his duty to stop the action of autrocites and report them to his superiors for investigation. Why would he wait until he is in front of a congressional commitee to report this? Also the person that Kerry saved, and recieved his Bronze Star for, claims he does not remember seeing any of the autrocites that Kerry reports while serving with him.

The other reason is Kerry or at least his supporters have made comments that Bush was a draft dodger or at least avoided Vietnam by joining the National Guard, they then further make accusations of his completion of service. Yet they avoid this accusation when after serving only 4 months, long enough to be promoted, Kerry requests transfer to the Naval Reserves, leaves combat and begins his carreer in politics. Hmm apparently Bush joining a Military branch of the reserves is draft dodging or avoiding his duty to serve his country. Kerry joining a military branch of the reserves is not.

Something is not right here.

c. clawson

was looking at kerry's 214 and something struck me. I did not know that silver stars were issued with a "V" device. I never saw one in over twenty years of service, Bronze stars with "V"'s ,yes, but not SS's.

Deus ex Macrame

This may shed light on Kerry's activities during those "lost years." It's from a 1971 newspaper profile of Kerry. It's clear that he 1) was doing antiwar stuff while still in the Navy, and 2) knew it was out of line.

(Beginning of quote):
His third Purple Heart qualified Kerry to come home, although he was offered a job as an admiral's aide to stay. "I decided," he says, "to return and tell the people the real story. My sister Peggy was very much involved in the antiwar movement then. Two weeks after I was back, I made a speech...I really let them have it...I was still in the Navy as an admiral's aide in New York."

Later in the article, he admits he was doing work for Moratorium:

"So I got involved in Moratorium. I have a private pilot's license and flew one of the speakers around the New York area. Next day I drafted a letter to the admiral requesting permission to resign and run for Congress."

Kristen Blaszkiewicz

I don't understand all the military talk about forms and other, but it amazes me how people blame what is going on in the Middle East on Bush!! This process was set in motion LONG before GWB even contemplated being pres. The USA was being terrorized back in 1979 with bombing of airplanes, bombing Un building, etc, and hijackings by Muslim extremists.

AND...this deficit we are dealing with? HELLOOOO? Did Bush start with a zero balance here? AND, just how much of our freaking tax dollars were spent on the A**HOLE Clinton and his stupid affair/investigation/impeachment bullcrap.

Bush did what he needed to! I am just glad I didn't have to make the decision, but...I stand behind GWB 110% He has morals, integrity, and he's no coward. Kerry? Are we looking at another Clinton???? I'm not willing to take that chance as I feel those were the WORST 8 years of my life!!

Angela Shafer

First of all, let me say my father served in Vietnam during 1969-70. Though I have never been in combat, I was exposed, through my father, to the Agent Orange chemicals sprayed into the jungles to 'help' American soldiers see the Vietnamese in the thick foliage, and I have suffered physical illness because of that exposure, so I feel qualified to express my opinion.
My cousin was in Vietnam only 3 days when he was shot and killed, so, going by how long someone was in Vietnam to determine if he's a true Vet or not, I guess my cousin was just a tourist. Is that really how people feel? Four months or four years, John Kerry volunteered for duty in Vietnam. George W. Bush explicitly stated he did not volunteer for combat on his National Guard application. He had the choice so many others without family connections did not have, whether or not to go to combat, leaving one to wonder who went to combat in his place, but look at how he's managed to divide this nation. People who are not part of his 'base', meaning the wealthy elite he spoke to whom he specifically stated are his 'base' don't mean anything to him, but yet people still follow him like sheep, afraid to dare speak out against him. It's like peer pressure for grown ups.
As far as John Kerry's protests and testimony about the atrocities in Vietnam, guess what, they happened. John Kerry's not the only Vietnam Vet to come home and describe horrific acts by American soldiers. But because people want to hold on to their June Cleaver image of the U.S., those who speak the truth are attacked.
One might say if I don't like it, I can leave. But I'm American Indian, I was here first.
George W. Bush cares for no one but himself and those he deems worthy. His own wife recalled Bush Sr. and Barbara Bush telling her to never say or do anything George W. doesn't like, to never criticize him, to never tell him he isn't the best at whatever he does, or else he won't like it. He's a spoiled brat who sees this country as yet another corporation toy to drive into the ground.
George W. Bush has no integrity, as he proved when he refused to remove the images of Ground Zero in New York City from his campaign commercials after the victims' families expressed outrage over their loved ones' graves being used as part of Bush's selfish political aimes. He has no courage, as he showed when he sat in a room full of children after he was told about the 9/11 attacks, thereby making those children targets for attack. He has no morals, as he proved when he arranged for an ex-girlfriend to have a then-illegal abortion in 1971.
For all of his using this war on terror for his political gain, it's been nearly 3 full years since the attacks, and he's refused to testify fully before the 9/11 Commission, he has closed fire stations in the U.S., and he's successfully distracted the nation by using Iraq to cover up his failure to capture Osama Bin Laden.
Continue to be sheep if you want to believe the empty propaganda image, but just remember that if the sheep isn't careful when it follows the shepherd into an abandoned field, it'll get screwed.

Donald L. Ribelin

First let me say, I am no hero. I spent twelve years on active duty (Army) and two years in the reserves. During that time, I was stationed in Nam for almost two and one half years. As a UH-1D/H Helicopter crewchief I know how hard the swiftboats were hit during those early days in 1969. I knew only a few soldiers who earned more than one purple heart. To earn three, I feel one would have to be very unlucky. Do I doubt Kerry's war record, No! but that doesn't matter. What I doubt is Kerry's integrity. He took an oath which he did not honor. For all of George W's faults, I see no indications he did not honor his.

Michael Pelletier

... "John Kerry volunteered for duty in Vietnam. George W. Bush explicitly stated he did not volunteer for combat on his National Guard application." ...

Right, but as I understand it, John Kerry didn't volunteer for combat either.

He volunteered for the Swift Boats when they were doing comparatively cushy work at a distance from the front lines, and only after he signed up was their mission changed, by Operation SEALORD, to Mekong recon and enemy-goading.

Daddio

The issue here is one of facts versus factoids. The interpretation by those with partisan views and bias will do nothing to further the cause of truth.

I served in the US Navy for more than 20 years, combat and peace, and am appalled that the so-called “Hero’s” war record. Kerry employed an out, the ‘thrice wounded’ rule that allowed him to get out of Viet Nam. As soon as then LTjg Kerry managed his third combat related injury, he applied to transfer under the ‘thrice wounded’ rule. He had no injuries requiring medical treatment, which is the intent, but rather scrapes and bruises that he chose to see a medical officer for. It seems a small issue to those who haven’t served, perhaps not even understood, but to those of us who have served… we call it malingering. (Webster defines malingerer as: \Ma*lin"ger*er\, n. In the army, a soldier who feigns himself sick, or who induces or protracts an illness, in order to avoid doing his duty; hence, in general, one who shirks his duty by pretending illness or inability.)

His service was uneventful at best, and questionable under scrutiny. He should be proud of his service every day that he walks free, not just when it’s politically expedient. His actions post-service were consistent with conduct unbecoming an officer (yes, he was still a reserve officer), and language reflecting on a superior (yes, it’s illegal to make subversive statements about the sitting President). He could have, and should have, been brought up on charges and court martialed. That would have put an end to the entire political debacle that he calls a career serving the country. Being a polished speaker, though it pains me to refer to him in that light, does not qualify him to lead this nation. Turning his back on his nation in a time of war is treason, and should not reward such behavior by electing him to the highest office in the country.

For those of you blinded by the media, please stop trying to drag the nation down the rabbit hole with you. We have no state run media, nor to we have a media independently funded, we have a media that is run by advertising, big business, and political group funding. There is no altruistic intent, nor are they the reference material for the modern world. The news media is little more the long running editorialist satire.

We are all faulted, and we have all made mistakes that we would ‘undo’ if we could. We are not all running for President.

Ed Sweeney

Having spent 22.5 years from 1969 to 1992 defending my country and the "whiners" right to free speech, I feel qualified to speak up. Like the overwhelming majority of vets, I am no hero either. This I do know. As a Reservist, or as an Active Duty Officer, John Kerry was in violationo of several counts of the UCMJ for his political and anti-war activities. That being said, let us focus on the more important and relevant features of his life. As a U.S. Senator from Mass., he has compiled the most DISMAL record! Consider this, in your own profession, no matter what it is, would you expect to remain, or as an employer would you keep an employee, if the attendance record was in the 23% range? That is like showing up for work 1 day per week! Not only that, but how about having sponsored ONLY 2 bills, both of which were RESOUNDINGLY defeated, in your entire career! People! Forget about Viet Nam! Kerry's war record is a smoke screen of the worst magnitude to draw our attention from the facts! He is an absolutely terrible public servant! He has not served his constituency, only his own interests! His Senate record is easily researchable. Let's forget about his cuts and scratches and get down to some SERIOUS research! What he has done (or rather FAILED to do) for his constituents in Mass. we can and should fully expect he will do as President! I DO NOT want someone in the Oval Office who has spent 3/4 of his career "elsewhere" than where he was supposed to be! It is a VERY strong indication of what he will do if elected...NOTHING!!!

Fred Birchmore, Lt(JG)

I was there, same time as Kerry, 67-69, but up north. Boat Officer on occasion, brownwater, not the Swifts, but LCPL, LCVP, LCM, etc. Cua Viet River, surops, UDT taxi service, etc. Not a hero. Hell, I (or my crew) pulled SEVEN guys out of heavy surf while we were under enemy fire and also receiving close, extremely close air support. Of course they were UDT and were supposed to be in the water, but there were other times when guys fell off the boat (like while taking a lee whizz) and we always picked them up, duh! Guess I even went to OCS in Newport, R.I. with Kerry, 9/66-1/67. He graduated one class (month) ahead of me. I don't remember him, though. From what I know, however, about duty, honor, boathandling, rules of engagement, etc, he had to be a total screwup in Nam, endangering and abandoning his boat and crew like that. I do remember seeing that arrogant, halfass-uniformed longjawed commie- propagandizing bastard on TV in 1971, and that, along with his miserable record as senator, is all I need to set my vote.

reddevil

site full of posting by patehic liars

W Moore

Kerry's lack of comment about prisoner abuse stems back to his Plowman days when military and merc's alike would drag their prisoners aboard at the extraction points and determine their usefulness and tenure after a short interrogation. I think maybe "Zero" Kerry thought the disposal techniques a bit gruesome for his blueblood. Probably why he paid off the corpsmen and was home in a few months, coming very close to treason while still a commissioned officer by speaking out against the USA, the military, and the war. Anyone else would have gone to the brig after a court-martial. I surely don't want a Commander-in-chief who tassed his medals, can't remember that he wrote a book about how stupid the US government was, voted against most everything that would help the troops conduct opertions (when he voted at all!!), and then picked up his medals out of the trash to try and prove he was a hero! What utter audacity... and just ANOTHER insult to the military and veterans.

Ruth Kness

Why the interest in 35 years ago? IF you want to keep up a smear campaign, I'm sure you will stay there. How about NOW? How about the last 4 years? How many promises has Bush kept? Please tell me- No child left behind? You have to be kidding. Funds left behind. Prescription drug savings. Did you know the price of generic drugs was raised before the cards came out and I mean a big raise. Are we safer now then 4 years ago? Why the high terror alert if we are so safe? Why won't Bush have more then possibly 3 debates with Kerry? I think it's wonderful Bush believes in God but I'll bet any veteran will acknowlege his belief but do you think he believes God sent him to kill and be killed for a people we feel should have a democracy. When in fact they hate us and there are so many tribes they will continue to fight. Why was his course changed and he went after Saddam? Bush first made the statement we will win the war on terrorism. Hmmm seems it was the wrong statement. Did you ever notice Bush never takes the blame for anything? Someone else told him or he didn't mean what he said. So he has us in a war found on lies (someone told him there were WMD's) We would be welcomed with flowers and smiles (instead there were bullets and hate). I would like to know where the new jobs recently in the news are and what are the wages. College kids are coming out owing $60,000 and getting a job paying $7.00-$10.000, many part time full time. Jobs were created because school kids went back to school and those big paying $6.00-$10.00 an hr. jobs were opened. You can bet Bush (Cheney) will have a surprise for us if his polls ratings go down. Will Cheney be his running mate or an unfortunate heart problem put Mc Cain in that position? I heard this statement (Pres. Bush has such a high regard for the truth why does he use it so sparingly.)

Jim

I agree, forget Kerry's supposed Vietnam war record, it should have no bearing on his qualifications. 4 months are not enough to get you out of probation for any job. We should be concentrating on what he has done in the Senate and what he is promising to do. Senate, nothing, promises wow. Going to bring more jobs back to the US, how, is he going to tell his wife to close the 57 factories overseas? Is he going to tell all his rich friends that they will have to pay more taxes, give me a break. Politicians all tell you what they think you want to hear. At least GW won't back down and apologize to the people who took down the twin towers, and continue to want the destruction of the country we love. Look at the communist party of the US's agenda. Gee it sounds a lot like the new democratic whiners platform. All they have done is bash GW and then whine because JK gets bashed back. You don't hear GW whining like a spoiled brat. Talk to some of the people who have to be around JK and you will not hear much good said from the common people who have to work for a living.

pat

I am a post'Nam Naval reserve officer who did 7 years active duty (was RAD-Released from Active Duty, but plugged into the SELRES for the paycheck for about two years and then IRR when my first child was born. I went inactive IRR and was carried on the rolls for about another 4 years before a final Honorable Discharge. We all know the bureaucracy can be slow and screwed up; but what did happen to Kerry's obligation of two more years following his return? He still carried a "pink ID card" until final discharge; maybe he carried it to Paris as well. What amazes me is why hasn't any of this hit the "mainstream press"; but that is almost as amazing as "responsible journalism" another oxymoron. Any one have a contact to get this debate onto the big screen; oops, I don't think that USA Today journalist Michael Moore would cover it! Life goes on, but the character issues over this scenario adds additional concern about that French speaking Vietnam hero John Kerry, who by the way has served in the senate for the last 20 years. Anyone remember any bills called the Kerry amendment? Hmmm?

A. J. Walsh

I question that under the provisions of the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution that John Kerry is eligible to run for the Presidency.

Most people don't want to go back to the Vietnam war so it is almost impossible to get them to go back to the civil war. In 1865 President Andrew Johnson (DEM) reconstructed most of the southern states before the Republican Congress returned in December 1865. In those days Republicans were not wimps and were considered radical by the Democrates. The Republican Congress refused to allow any former Senator or Representative from the old Confederacy to be seated in Congress. They considered them traitors. In 1866 Congress passed the first civil rights act over Johnson's veto and submitted the 14th Amendment to the States for ratification. Section 3 pertains to Lt. John Kerry and his actions after returning from Vietnam. It renders him ineligible under the law to run for either the Senate or President. Quote: "No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, OR GIVEN AID OR COMFORT TO THE ENEMIES THEREOF. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability." As John Kerry is recognized in a museum in Vietnam as a person who aided them in that war and as he previously took an oath to support and defend the Constitution I believe that he is not eligible to run for public office in this country.

ldb

Does anyone know of John Kerry going to President Clinton to "dress-up" his discharge?

Thanks

Michael Pate

The New York Times offers an interesting take.

Mr. Kerry had first considered a race for Congress two years earlier, just after he was released from active duty in the Navy in the winter of 1970. The district he eyed was the Third, stretching across the western suburbs of Boston from Fitchburg to Newton. But by the time he decided to explore challenging the hawkish Democratic incumbent, Philip J. Philbin, there was already a clear front-runner: the Rev. Robert F. Drinan, the Jesuit dean of Boston College Law School, who had become a prominent opponent of the war. - Todd S. Purdum

This obviously don't mesh very well his March 1 timeline.

Jack Mehoff

John Kerry and John Edwards get each other up the ass bitches!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Stiffmiester

Yes i would like to apologize for my rude behavior, BITCHES!!!!!! SUCK MY COCK NIGGAS!!!!!!!!
Signed The Stiffmiester

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