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August 30, 2004

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Comments

Birkel

It's so much harder to apply Mickey Kaus' faster feiler thesis when you're on the dope. Gotta give Lurch a pass on that one. You know, he's just differently abled, what with all the flash backs and what not.

Besides, when Hillary broke a lamp it was directed at Bill. Can we expect John to react any differently when reacting to the person who wears the pants in the family?

/that was mean

Birkel

It's so much harder to apply Mickey Kaus' faster feiler thesis when you're on the dope. Gotta give Lurch a pass on that one. You know, he's just differently abled, what with all the flash backs and what not.

Besides, when Hillary broke a lamp it was directed at Bill. Can we expect John to react any differently when reacting to the person who wears the pants in the family?

/that was mean

ParseThis

In college I understand he got hooked up to jumper cables.

ParseThis

I hear excessive alcohol drives some people to God. And then God speaks through them. And sometimes tells them that the apocalypse is just around the corner and here's the country you should invade.

robert0

George Bush is definitely a psychopath. I mean, he said God told him to strike Saddam. GOD TOLD HIM!

I'll take a few ancient nightmares anyday, thank you very much.

robert0

Here's yet another truth squad.

Harry in Atlanta

I think any other attack by any other group of people and Kerry and his minions would have responded quickly and without mercy. But when the swiftees story finally broke the Kerry machine was caught flatfooted and like the proverbial deer in the headlights they froze. Kerry probably told some close advisors that a some of his war history was just, you know, bravado but he probably downplayed it and didn't really give them a complete picture. What braggart does when caught in a self-serving lie? I imagine their worry was if they rebut or rather attack the swiftees too quickly and Kerry's version didn't hold water they would really be sunk. So they decided to wait it out a bit and let the main stream press do the dirty work on the swiftees. This would protray Kerry as staying above the mudslinging by refusing to dignify the questions concerning his somewhat autobiographical heroic combat record.

But the main stream press has overestimitated its influence in the New Media Order and believed that if they ignored the swiftee story it would go away, it had always done so in the past. The fact that the story didn't die has shocked and frightened them. Because the press has staked so much on a Kerry presidency they had to engage in the now nesscessary Democrats dirty work by digging into the swiftees' personal histories as well as attacking some opposing voices in the alternative press and smearing them wherever possible and all the while ignore John Kerry's VietNam fables. Oregon prosecutor Al French's persection at the hands of The Oregonian and the attack on Powerline bloggers by the Minneapolis Star-Tribune editor and loyal Kerry tool Jim Boyd are example of these actions. But alas even the threat of having the press sicced on them has not deterred neither the swiftees nor the alternative media and has really done nothing but kept the story alive and has continued the degradation of the already woeful reputation of the main stream press. No longer viewed as an honest broker the press is now viewed as propagandists (which is fine if you are up front about it, but the press still truly believes itself to be a neutral and honest broker). And the msp doesn't even realize or believe this is happening. By their arrogance and the contempt for their readers they have cut their own frigging throats. And the bleeding that began as a trickle is becoming a gusher.

Slartibartfast

For Pete's sake, stop it with the italics, already.

Cecil Turner

"GOD TOLD HIM!"

Hearing God is one thing, but hearing God talk to GW Bush . . . wow, that is wacky.

J_Crater

When I kept reading that Kerry had no recollection of being at the Kansas City meeting of VVAW, where a proposal to assassinate government officials was discuss, I began to wonder. This meeting is where Kerry is said to have had a major blowup with the authors of that proposal (to his credit), but no recollection.
Is this forgetfulness just politically convenient, or is this part of a medical problem ? Perhaps he should invoke Reagan.

spongeworthy

What's this stuff about God talking to Bush? Wow, that's pretty cool. I mean, if a guy thought God was speaking to him, what couldn't he justify?

He could go completely off the deep end and invade a country that virtually everybody believed was a threat--that's what having God on your side will do to you! I wonder if God speaks to Bill Clinton too, since he seems to think Iraq was a pretty good idea.

If God's talking to Bush, does that explain his Medicare drug benefit? You got to figure God wants seniors to have cheap medication, since He knows how difficult it can be to deal with cranky old people.

But I figure for a guy who thinks he talks to God, Bush's thinking kind of small. If God was talking to me, He's be telling me to make all the mean people nice or else kill them. Or to create a Peace Ray or something cool like that.

ter0

FYI on the issue of Kerry's medical history, be on the alert for Democrat claims of push polling on Kerry's prostate cancer status as discussed in this thread at Command-Post. LINK

Specifically, the rather thin, alleged "proof' of such a push poll in Oregon are these letters to the editor Link

In any event, Kerry's medical status is a valid issue in the campaign, especially since he hasn't released his medical records. And it appears some Democrat activists are trying to get out in front of this by claiming a smear. Naturally, a third possibility is that the push polling accusation is true.

nerd

I think most democrats would welcome and open discussion of the physical and mental health of each candidate. Along with disussions of what sort of aberrant behaivior they may have partaken in in the past.

Chopper-seven

I've been enjoying this site for about a month. Some pretty good commenters.

If anybody is on drugs it's got to be Teresa. She has that fried egg look. Been aware of that type for decades. In fact she looks like she's been popping since she lived in the "Valley of the Dolls".

Hey Parsethis, so cool MAN. Don't forget the coke too, Or was it crack, or crank dude.

Just my little "who dat"

recon

TIME OUT!!

One of the latest vets to come out and comment on the SwiftVet story was unique in that the individual mentioned that HE was the designated officer of the sleeping quarters who was duty'd to follow Kerry around when he walked in his sleep at night and put the guy back into bed before he hurt himself (and/or someone else?).

I just don't recall at the moment, so I will go look further. Rood is a definite possibility.

You may really be onto something new here, so please don't blow it off casually or just let go.

GO FOR IT!!!

Gaius Livius

These "God-talks-to-me" quips above sound like a canard; lefties being all-too-literal in interpreting some statement, perhaps?

No, probably.

Put another way, you could say that God "speaks" to all of us, if you're being figurative (i.e., what some of us call a "conscience" but which is often absent among the left). I rather suspect that if he said anything on this topic, that's probably what Bush meant.

But, why take him for what he meant to say, when you can distort his words into some cartoonish caricature based on twisting the words? Yeah, that's the ticket ...

The senator needs to quit stalling, release ALL of his records, and take his lumps like a man before going down to the ignominious defeat which is his due.

And his wife needs to release her tax returns, and take her lumps like a - well, Teresa IS wearing the pants in the family, isn't she?

d

He needs to release copies of his hunting licenses too. Actually they probably don't exist.

ter0

GL:

And his wife needs to release her tax returns, and take her lumps like a -- well, Teresa IS wearing the pants in the family, isn't she?

Well said and additional props because you didn't find it necessary to resort to crude personal descriptions of Mrs. H-K, who is after all the more genuine of Kerry duo. Thankfully, at least some of those commenting on Mrs. H-K are clever enough to be witty in their description, for example:

By being a brave warrior and a prominent antiwarrior, Kerry was profoundly involved in the two largest claims to participation in a ''noble cause'' that the last half-century has offered Americans. He has succeeded in getting two very striking and independent women to marry him, the second of whom, though she sometimes resembles a large-print version of Bianca Jagger, is nonetheless living proof that ketchup is not a vegetable.
(LINK)

Jim in Texas

Unless the rule regarding some medical records in the military has changed (Psych records for one) then not all the records are going to be available.

When I retired from the military I got a copy of my complete medical record only to find it wasn't complete. None of my surgical records were available since they were maintained in the hospital where I had surgey and were never included in my primary medical records.

I also looked for my psych records but those, too were unavailable.

I was able to "bootleg" a copy of my dental records - don't know why, no dentist has ever wanted to see them - but my official request for the dental records was returned with a "not available" stamp.

Also, none of my X-rays ever made it to the Records Center in St. Louis; I was told they were not considered significant to your medical records, including X-rays detailing combat injurys.

Anyone else have experience in getting all their medical records?

Ann

But, if the American Thinker article is correct--that Kerry suffered from this disorder while in the military, wouldn't that have prevented him from being drafted in the first place? Do you really want someone who suffers from night terrors and sleepwalking to be on a small boat or in a foxhole? I would think such a disorder would be an automatic out of the draft.

That makes me look a bit askance at the American Thinker article.

Cecil Turner

"These "God-talks-to-me" quips above sound like a canard; lefties being all-too-literal in interpreting some statement, perhaps? "

I think they're referring to this story, where last year Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas, in a meeting of his compatriots, was relaying what he said the President had told him in a previous meeting. He quotes Bush as saying:

"God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East."
Leaving aside the obvious problems (Abbas apparently doesn't speak English, and is repeating the quote second hand, so we have a minimum of three filters and two translations to what was actually said), it sounds a lot like projection. The Palestinians were in the middle of discussions for a pause in hostilities ("hudna") and "God told me to strike" is a rather common Palestinian motivational theme. There have been some snide comment pieces since (e.g., this one at Common Dreams.

Jim (TX),

My experience on medical records is similar. My hazy recollection of the separation briefing is that if we wanted a copy we should make it ourselves (the Navy wouldn't due to administrative overhead)--I did, and haven't used any of it since.

CJ

Well, Kerry on meds that effect his level of alertness might explain all those absences from committee meetings. Do Senators typically miss 75% of their committee meetings, especially Senators that are contemplating running for President and know that their records will be scrutinized?

Annalucia

Has anyone asked the FIRST Mrs. Kerry if sleepwalking, nightmares, etc., were a feature of her marriage to JFK?

TM

[if] Kerry suffered from this disorder while in the military, wouldn't that have prevented him from being drafted in the first place?

Good point! Although I don't know the answer to the Army's medical excuses back then.

The more obvious thought (as in Gourevitch/New Yorker) is that Kerry is having Vietnam-induced nightmares as part of a post-traumatic stress disorder.

But there is the Swiftee (Brant) who said he got to know Kerry from steering him back into his bunk.

Hmm, if Kerry had roommates at his prep school, or at Yale, wouldn't they have stories of Kerry sleepwalking? And couldn't this have given Kerry a medical out?

And if Kerry declined to exploit his medical excuse, that is a big plus for him...

Pat Curley

Brinkley has a short discussion of Kerry's sleepwalking in Tour of Duty; can't locate the reference right now, but the crew on one of his Swift Boats had a couple anecdotes about his troubles in this regard. The Brinkley story indicates that this was the first time he'd had those problems.

That said, I think it's best to avoid considering this a humorous story. Remember, Kerry was 24 years old and had life and death responsibility for all 6 people on his boat in very hazardous circumstances. I'd probably be sleepwalking in the same situation.

Darwin Finch

We shouldn't even consider giving this guy the keys to the free world if he won't prove that he's at least sane.

Fantasizing about Christmas in Cambodia and forgetting his positions of yesterday give us ample reason to wonder about it.

Side note: What would our dear media have to say about it if Bush refused to provide his military, medical AND financial records? Fun to ponder, eh?

ed

Hmmmm.

I've got a question and I'm not entirely certain if it's valid or not.

1. How many Swiftees were there? I.e. how many members of the USN/USNR were assigned to the Swift boats during Vietnam?

2. Of those assigned, how many died?

3. How many pilots were trained for the F-102?

The reason I'm curious about this is that F-102, the jet that Lt. Bush flew, had a very bad reputation. Over the course of the F-102's lifetime approximately 280, out of a little over 1,000, jets were destroyed. Most in accidents. Additionally 70 pilots were killed in the F-102.

The reason I'm wondering is that the accident, and fatality, rate for the F-102 is really very high. The only other jet that comes close is the Starfighter, which was called the "Widowmaker" for a good reason. So I'm curious to see if Swift boats had a greater, equal or lesser fatality rate than the F-102.

We've all taken it for granted, and it's probably true btw, that serving in Swift boats were immensely more dangerous than flying a F-102. But I'd still am curious about it and I'd like to know either way.

anon

I wonder if Kerry has the same post-prostate cancer problem as Bob Dole and is reluctant to release the records to keep the ammo away from the comedians.

Greg F

"1. How many Swiftees were there? I.e. how many members of the USN/USNR were assigned to the Swift boats during Vietnam?"

Ed,

Part of the answer to your question may be here.

robert0

Is this a confession? From Andrew Sullivan via TPM.

P.S.: I loved Bush's comment yesterday about the smear-ad: "I can understand why Senator Kerry is upset with us. I wasn't so pleased with the ads that were run about me. And my call is get rid of them all, now." "Us"?? I thought Bush had nothing to do with it.

Snowy

>George Bush is definitely a psychopath. I mean, he said God told him to strike Saddam. GOD TOLD HIM!

Oh yeah? Well who tells Kerry to tell all those lies? I mean, in the congressional records he said he spent Christmas '68 in Cambodia on a secret mission ordered there by President (NOT) Nixon. Then later he said he got a magic hat and did some gunrunning and his dog got flipped onto the boat next door. THE DEVIL MADE HIM TELL THOSE LIES!!!!!!

GT

Tom,

I hear Bush still snorts cocaine.

Should the press follow up?

After all once and addict...

Greg F

""Us"?? I thought Bush had nothing to do with it."

Robert0,

1) Your dog gets run over with a car
2) You think it was me so your upset with me
3) "I can understand why" your upset with me
4) I didn't run over your dog, I "had nothing to do with it".

Understand?

ParseThis

I remember December 1968 patrolling the Mekong River. I remember the ambush and what it was like to be shot at by Charlie, and have the American people spit on me and call me 'baby killer'; that I did not serve honorably. I have that memory which is seared--seared--in me.

Jumbo

Although it is certainly interesting about some psychological condition, IMO this is an area in which to tread VERY carefully, if at all. Why?
1) Way too easy to be wrong, and then loose a lot of credibility;
2) Too similar to the right-wing-coup fiction/movies such as "The Best Man" and "Seven Days In May", in which attmepts are made to (falsely) paint a president as psychologically troubled in order to unlawfully gain control of government;
3)When the Dems ate their own and crushed Ed Muskie in New Hampshire in 1972 with stories about his wife's mental problems, it was a shaneful thing to see;
4)Too many people could identify with a Kerry problem;
5)There is a real sympathy/underdog factor that cathe nasty nazis kick a man when he's down, or if he claims PTSD from Vietnam (which I have been suggesting for three weeks is an option that will make Swift/post-war problems disappear for him).

Character defects are fair game. Emotional or psychological fillips (assuming nothing big) are not.

Les Nessman

"Is this a confession? From Andrew Sullivan via TPM...."
Good point! Keep believing that! I hear that nyah-nyah logic resonates well in recent polls of junior high school students.

Sorry, I know I shouldn't follow the trolls when they go off-topic...

Jim Glass

"Kerry now often proudly tells audiences how he survived cancer and how ordinary Americans deserve the type of high-end insurance he, as a senator, benefited from during the operation..."

Wouldn't it be more Progressive for Kerry to say...

"Billionaires like me and Warren Buffett don't need to be proud about having our health insurance paid for by working class taxpayers toiling at Warren's Dairy Queens and elsewhere.

"After all, if it is so very bad to cut our tax rate a few points to let us keep more of our own money, it has just *got* to be a hell of a lot worse to send tax transfers to us so our bills are picked up by people much poorer than us. Let us pay our own damn insurance premiums!

"Thus, as President I will means test out of Medicare and other such transfer programs all of us rich persons with enough wealth to collect $100,000 a year interest for life -- such as everyone with more than $1.5 million of wealth at age 60. What kind of 'social insurance' do *we* need, eh?

"Now, in addition to being progessive reform, if you look at the demographic wealth distribution you'll see this also knocks enough millioniares out of Medicare and Social Security to solve the future 'insolvency' problems of the US!

"So ... More tax cuts for all! Take *that*, Dubya! (And Krugman!)


TM

I hear Bush still snorts cocaine.

Should the press follow up?

Is that what you hear? I read in the Washington Post that Kerry's wife (but only since 1995) says he gets violent in his sleep. Which is more credible?

Village Idiot

An absolutely huge number of older males have prostate cancer. Incidentally, it often is better to leave it alone anyway, because folks usually die from something else first... I would NOT want to see any Republicans bet that Kerry didn't have prostate cancer, that is one they would probably lose...

I am most disturbed by Kerry not releasing his medical records. How unusual is this for a presidential candidate, some blog please research this and give us an answer? Also Kerry won't release his wife's financial records, she is a billionaire. Isn't that highly unusual?

robert0

1) Your dog gets run over with a car
2) You think it was me so your upset with me
3) "I can understand why" your upset with me
4) I didn't run over your dog, I "had nothing to do with it".

Understand?

Not even vaguely.

Greg F

"Understand?

Not even vaguely."

Just because "I can understand why" you cannot logically conclude I am guilty.

ed

Hmmm.

@"Greg F": "Part of the answer to your question may be here."

Thanks! I should have figured out that this site would exist. I think I'll go look for a F-102 site or perhaps track down the squadrons that employed them.

Thanks a lot!

2. Andrew Sullivan has frankly gone around the corner. His issues are gay issues and nothing else. I stopped reading him months ago. You go right ahead if you want to. I doubt anyone will take you quoting him seriously though.

3. ""Kerry now often proudly tells audiences how he survived cancer and how ordinary Americans deserve the type of high-end insurance he, as a senator, benefited from during the operation...""

In case anyone wasn't aware of this. A Senator has pretty much THE best health insurance anywhere in the world. After 2-3 terms that Senator also keeps that health insurance for his life and for his family.

It's all free! Only taxpayers have to pay for it. It's still free! :)

4. "I am most disturbed by Kerry not releasing his medical records."

It bothers me a lot because of Kerry's wierd fascination with his extensive fantasy life and the example set by Howard Dean. Dean might be the most stable sane person in the world. But I sure as heck didn't know he had that wierd primal bizzaro scream in him. I thought for a moment there his head would pop right off like a game of Rock'em-Sock'em-Robots.

Considering Kerry's problems with the truth and his willingness to be evasive and devious, I think I'd want to know before hand what the status of his physical and mental health.

Regardless of politics, nobody wants someone unstable with their finger on the launch button.

Greg F

Google google F102 for Ed.

robert0

Um, I don't have a dog.

robert0

Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas most definitely speaks English.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/953740/posts

And the quote:

According to Abbas, immediately thereafter Bush said: "God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did (my emphasis), and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."

That is a direct quote, Abbas telling a reporter what GW said to him.

ParseThis

I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn’t do my job.

I think God gives mixed/incomplete messages. He sends you off in one direction, then it's tribulations. For example, God sent me two messages, both text-based. One said 'Winston' and the other said 'Goldstein'. I happily took that to mean that Osama is most definitely dead. But that everybody watching the GOP Convention will celebrate in orgiastic hatred the subliminal imagery of this sinister enchanter with each shout of "Four More Years" climaxing with the towering, invincible, fearless protector swaggering on stage and standing like a rock against the hordes of Satan.

The Snark Who Was Really a Boojum

Robert0,
"That is a direct quote, Abbas telling a reporter what GW said to him."

And you believed what Abbas said without reservation? o_O

robert0

Are you insinuating that PM Abbas was lying to make GW look bad? I assume you did not followed the google link above from ParseThis.

I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn’t do my job. GW Bush

That, Snarky Boojum, sounds like someone with a very, very serious mental problem.

robert0

George W Bush is a born-again Christian. That, really, should say it all.

Bush said to James Robinson: 'I feel like God wants me to run for President. I can't explain it, but I sense my country is going to need me. Something is going to happen... I know it won't be easy on me or my family, but God wants me to do it.

Cecil Turner

"Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas most definitely speaks English."

I have no idea how well he speaks it. The clearly non-Bush supporting editorial I linked earlier said:

"Before you jump to any conclusions, remember that you are reading a translation of a translation of a translation. Mahmoud Abas does not speak English. Bush does not speak Arabic. If Bush said these words, or something like them, Abas heard them from a translator. Then Abas repeated them, as he remembered them a couple of weeks later, in Arabic. Some unknown person wrote down what he thought he heard Abas say. Then Regular, or someone at Ha'aretz, translated them back into English-or perhaps first into Hebrew and then into English."
I'll admit I took this as an admission against his interests and gave it more weight than I would normally for an unsupported statement. In any event, it still looks like projection (and if a PA spokesman told me the sky was blue, I'd feel obligated to check) . . .

Cecil Turner

ed,

We argued the F-102 "widowmaker" claims over at Flit a while back. I don't agree with his treatment--my crunching the numbers for relative lifetime risk (pilot fatalities per 100,000 flight hours) looked something like this:
B-52 1.32 (effective risk=.66)
U-2 1.69
F-100 5.90
F-101 3.91
F-102 2.68
F-105 5.10
F-4 2.09

The bottom line is that the F-102 did not stand out. If you wanted to evaluate relative risk vs a year in swift boats, you could use ~250 flight hours per year, and multiply the risk factor above by 250/100000. Personally, I doubt it'd compare with combat duty.

robert0

I overlooked the Commondreams link. However, the quoted paragraph is based on a fallicy. Abbas clearly speaks English, as evidenced in the WaPo interview.

robert0

I overlooked the Commondreams link. However, the quoted paragraph is based on a fallicy. Abbas clearly speaks English, as evidenced in the WaPo interview.

Cecil Turner

"I overlooked the Commondreams link. However, the quoted paragraph is based on a fallicy."

Very likely. Though many leaders use translators when negotiating in a second language, even if they speak it fairly well, and he obviously would have been talking Arabic in the Palestinian meeting. I also think it worth pointing out he made no mention of anyone talking to God in the interview. When discussing the same point he was making to his compatriots (whether Bush could be trusted to support a Palestinian state), he said:

"I think he's an honest man. He is direct -- to the point. "

Which is another way of interpreting the whole "God said strike" bit, suggesting he was using a culturally appropriate metaphor earlier. Similarly, the "God speaks through me" thing is standard fare from any pulpit in America--and not generally intended to be taken literally. In any event I think we're working this (and occasional sleepwalking) way too hard.

A lighter-side speculation on possible embarrassing info in Kerry's medical record is that it might show removal of rice grains from his butt.

GT

Tom,

Well, we know Bush has a history of abuse so I say let's investigate both.

Greg F

"I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn’t do my job. GW Bush

That, Snarky Boojum, sounds like someone with a very, very serious mental problem."

Sounds more like something a minister would say.

Patrick R. Sullivan

"I hear Bush still snorts cocaine."

"Still"? What is your source for Bush ever using cocaine?

Appalled Moderate

Anyone who would spend years running for president, and deal with all the personal abuse and insults, make all those contradictory promises, ruin their children's lives through the inevitable exposure, is out of their minds...obviously consumed with a pathological egotism that allows them to dismiss the obvious fact that millions upon millions of people loathe and detest him. Based on this obvious fact, it is clear that anyone who would run for President is not fit to be President, and is likely to go paranoid or start blithering when things don't go their way (or at the very least, hook up with a comely intern, thereby endangering the republic.)

So, I think it's time we stopped having a President (cause the guy must be nuts) and just make do with Congress....

ParseThis

Bad Theology?

The president's faith, "does not give him pause or force him to reflect. It is a source of comfort and strength but not of wisdom."

Tongue Boy

George W Bush is a born-again Christian. That, really, should say it all.

What does it say? I don't get it. Why don't you spell it out in big, bold letters using your brightest crayons so we can *all* understand your penultimate insight.

Jumbo

*sigh* Yet another hijacked thread.
The terrorists win when trolls distract. heh

Tribbie

For 2 solid weeks we were bombarded with the pages and pages of Pres. Bush's medical and military records...transcripts and copies of more information than we ever needed to know. But when it came time for Kerry's record a shortened version was published ONCE. As for his medical records...all he has to do is release them and the Swift Boats will sail away (providing they're lying, as he says). The liberal media never questions this man.

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