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August 14, 2004

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» POLITICS: Who Is John Hurley? from Baseball Crank
So last night, I saw John O'Neill of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth on Joe Scarborough's show, debating John Hurley, national director of "Vietnam Veterans for Kerry." (I missed the same duo on Hardball last week, but it sounds... [Read More]

» POLITICS: Who Is John Hurley? from Baseball Crank
UPDATE: Not the same guy. A relative? Even so, it kind of moots the point. Consider this item corrected. So last night, I saw John O'Neill of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth on Joe Scarborough's show, debating John Hurley,... [Read More]

» POLITICS: Who Is John Hurley? from Baseball Crank
UPDATE: Not the same guy. A relative? Even so, it kind of moots the point. Consider this item corrected. So last night, I saw John O'Neill of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth on Joe Scarborough's show, debating John Hurley,... [Read More]

Comments

John A. Kalb

That Matthews segment was pretty bad, by his standards. He's usually at least semi-reasonable in trying to be fair to his guests.

GT

Wow I just read the transcript.

O'Neill is beyond loony. And he lied about who was with Kerry during the first PH mission.

Jim in Chicago

Correction to the above post:

should read Matthews not O'Neill.

Dan Patterson

Among the worst interviews I've seen lately. Matthews was undone by O'Neill and his presentation of his points. No amount of bullying from Matthews would sway O'Neill and NONE of O'Neill's points were taken up in logical argument.
Matthews reminded me of nothing more than a hysterical high-school girl arguing about why she should have the keys to her mom's car.
James Carville was worse, but more ridiculous and I doubt anyone saw him.
On to November...

Dan Patterson
Winston-Salem, NC

Monique

Umm, no. Chris Matthews always interviews like that. When it's to the Conservative advantage, you call it "hard hitting".

Matthews made the salient point, the only point that really matters: Kerry went to Vietnam when he didn't have to. Bush and Cheney hid behind their momma's skirts. It's no more complicated than that. Don't try to pretend this is a character issue. That question was asked and answered 35 years ago.

The rest of it is just politically motivated (i.e. completely untrustworthy) whining based on 35 year old resurfaced "memories" . An unfortunate side effect is that these guys have called into question all medals earned in Vietnam, including their own.

Monique

Umm, no. Chris Matthews always interviews like that. When it's to the Conservative advantage, you call it "hard hitting".

Matthews made the salient point, the only point that really matters: Kerry went to Vietnam when he didn't have to. Bush and Cheney hid behind their momma's skirts. It's no more complicated than that. Don't try to pretend this is a character issue. That question was asked and answered 35 years ago.

The rest of it is just politically motivated (i.e. completely untrustworthy) whining based on 35 year old resurfaced "memories" . An unfortunate side effect is that these guys have called into question all medals earned in Vietnam, including their own.

Paula

I had been watching Hardball since it was a 30 minute show on CNBC. I stopped watching him totally this year, since he is so clearly in the tank for the dems -- at least before he made token attempts to be even handed.

If you think Chris is like this "all the time" , try harkening back to his interviews with Howard Dean, where Chris' repartee mainly consisted of, "Uh-huh, uh-huh" and not a single challenge to the allegations Dean would make. Can you say "Howard Dean monologue"?

Monique

It is funny how political persuasion effects perceptions. My Democratic friends were incensed with MSNBC and Chris Mathews during the convention coverage. Such as the way he cut off Al Sharpton midspeech and then attacked him in person and when he wasn't there to defend himself, in a very partisan manner. Also the Ralph Reed monologues were a sight to behold.

Perceptions of the liberal or conservative bias of the media are always rather ridiculous. Since the advent of FoxNews, opinion is more and more presented as fact, and it is difficult to find any issue discussed with any clarity amidst the bellowing heads all trying to shout one another down.

There is no network out there with the flagrantly Republican bias that Fox has. Even there, Bill O'Reilly has been holding his nose at the Swift Boaters, and I've seen their cases demolished rather neatly despite Sean Hannity's attempts to softball them.

BTW, I actually know some Fox employees. Dick Cheney recently spent a three hour luncheon with Roger Ailes, during which all employees were kept locked in their offices. Our country has never had a news network so shamelessly tucked into the pocket of an administration as they do now. It would be a good time for the Republicans to stop whining, I think.

Monique

It is funny how political persuasion effects perceptions. My Democratic friends were incensed with MSNBC and Chris Mathews during the convention coverage. Such as the way he cut off Al Sharpton midspeech and then attacked him in person and when he wasn't there to defend himself, in a very partisan manner. Also the Ralph Reed monologues were a sight to behold.

Perceptions of the liberal or conservative bias of the media are always rather ridiculous. Since the advent of FoxNews, opinion is more and more presented as fact, and it is difficult to find any issue discussed with any clarity amidst the bellowing heads all trying to shout one another down.

There is no network out there with the flagrantly Republican bias that Fox has. Even there, Bill O'Reilly has been holding his nose at the Swift Boaters, and I've seen their cases demolished rather neatly despite Sean Hannity's attempts to softball them.

BTW, I actually know some Fox employees. Dick Cheney recently spent a three hour luncheon with Roger Ailes, during which all employees were kept locked in their offices. Our country has never had a news network so shamelessly tucked into the pocket of an administration as they do now. It would be a good time for the Republicans to stop whining, I think.

Bostonian

Monique: "Matthews made the salient point, the only point that really matters: Kerry went to Vietnam when he didn't have to. "

That might be the only salient point to *you*, and you're entitled to your opinion.

But if the only way your preferred candidate can make it into office is to suppress O'Neill and the other vets, what does that say about your candidate? What does it say about you that you don't mind this media clampdown?

Lynn

Monique:

Well is there no bias in the chumminess between Katie Couric and John Kerry at the Boston Red Sox game last month? I don't know how that balances against a lunch meeting.

Fox isn't completely balanced, but NBC, CBS, ABC is outrageous. Commentators like Sean Hannity, Andy Rooney and Chris Matthews show their colors, where as the anchors in the mainstream are losing their ability to at least appear fair. What a shame. If the mainstream has nothing to fear, why not just bring out the facts, much as they required of Bush over the National Guard records flap?

It is a matter of perspective.

Brian

Does anyone really give a great deal of credibility to these people?

Monique

Suppressing? Clamping down?

Maybe you get different news stations where you live, but these guys were on wall to wall, 24/7 on my TV.

They were heard. Maybe they influenced some people. They also made a lot of people retch. Them's the breaks.

Monique

Suppressing? Clamping down?

Maybe you get different news stations where you live, but these guys were on wall to wall, 24/7 on my TV.

They were heard. Maybe they influenced some people. They also made a lot of people retch. Them's the breaks.

Monique

Lynn, last I looked Katie Couric did not run NBC. There is a difference. And if you think the networks are ridiculous, while Fox is just slightly biased...geez, what can I say to that.

Roger Ailes has TOLD his employees that their job is to reelect the President. They also have a hiring freeze right now out of fear of hiring non Republicans. They are very conscious of the employees political affiliation. It is beyond biased. It is the propaganda wing of the Republican party. They make no bones about it inhouse. If anyone is claiming the same for the networks, I'd like to hear it.

P.S. Sorry about this double posting. Damn dial up connection.

Patrick

I think it's hilarious when dem's keep trying hide Rather, Jennings, and Brokaw's blatant bias by claiming Fox is in the hip pocket of Cheney.....is that the best they can do?

Monique

Well, Fox IS in the hip pocket of Cheney, Patrick. He even has been quoted at rallies (you know the ones with handpicked audiences and loyalty oaths) to watch Fox for the "true" news.

I've heard all this about liberal bias in the media for years. But I've only seen factual evidence that Fox has a political agenda.

Here's an interesting quote from Dan Rather at a recent round tabel on journalism: "Bill Kristol, whom I don't think anybody would accuse of being liberal says, and I'm quoting here, I brought this so I could quote him directly, far be it if I missed one word. "I admit it, the liberal media were never that powerful and the whole thing was often used as an excuse by conservatives for conservative failures." Pat Buchanan, not exactly a bomb-throwing bolshevik, Pat Buchanan says; "The truth is I have gotten fairer, more comprehensive coverage of my ideas than I ever imagined I would receive." Another quote: "I've gotten balanced coverage and broad coverage, all we could have asked. We kid about the liberal media but every Republican on Earth does that.”

I actually enjoy a lot of Conservative commentators. I enjoy Pat Buchanan. I find Joe Scarborough interesting to watch. I don't mind watching news from a Conservative perspective. I just like it to be identified as such, not have my intelligence insulted by phrases like "Fair and Balanced".

When a movement has as its spokesman a raving lunatic like Rush Limbaugh, who has never held himself to the pretense of any journalistic standard and who regularly spews irrational bigotry and indiscriminate character assassination, they really are living in a glass house when it comes to trying to throw any stones.

Robert Speirs

Monique:
"Rush Limbaugh, who has never held himself to the pretense of any journalistic standard and who regularly spews irrational bigotry and indiscriminate character assassination,..."

Any examples of this from Rush? Have you ever listened to Rush? Have you seen Michael Moore's so-called "documentary"? Have you any real evidence to back up anything you're saying?

If you like biases to be identified, why do you think Rather/Jennings/Brokaw are so great when they have NEVER identified their biases, all of which are the same?

TheSophist

Robert Speirs...

Asking for evidence from a Lefty... you oughta know better....

Monique's clearly imbibed liberally from the Kool-Aid. What's the point? She probably thinks Al Jazeera is balanced fair journalism too. Let it go.

-TS

Kevin Mudd

Kerry tried to get a one year deferment from the draft board to go to Paris .He only signed up for the Navy after they refused . Many thousands of National Guard soliers served in Vietnam. Many of them died in Vietnam. Bush could have been killed flying his F102 here in the USA.Many pilots died flying f102s. Bill Clinton didn't even show up for ROTC which he promised to do to get out his draft notice.And then Clinton when to England and protested against America.And yet the Democrats thought that was okay.

ParseThis

Have you seen Bush's new ad? FOXNews 'accidently' released its advanced copy. Sure would like to see the memo that accompanied it. Everyone knows Rush is the spokesman for angry white males, arguably the most persecuted group on the planet, and their female subordinate others. The nose bones Rush leverages are self-evident except to those for whom such prejudices are cultural values. I don't listen to Rush. I watched his television program back in the early nineties. Let's just say it was less than sophisticated. No, let's just say it was insulting to even below-average intelligences. No doubt he's improved somewhat, and no doubt I didn't appreciate the entertainment thinking instead that he was serious.

Monique

Republican debate tactics: when all else fails, ridicule. The RNC promises to be an orgy of that. We will see if the American public just wants to join the "mean girls" out of fear of becomign their target, or if they actually care about haviing their legitimate questions answered.

Yes, of course I've listened to Rush. Sometimes if I am on the road mid day I catch him. He always sounds like he is about to bust a gut, and always makes me wonder what happened to him in his childhood to make him so intent on ridiculing every opposing viewpoint. Talk about an inferiority complex! I admit I don't listen to him much, but the Abu Ghraib quotes got a lot of play on the nightly news. That really was all I needed to hear to know he was a world class dirt bag.

What's troubling about Rush, though, is that he always plays to the lowest common denominator. Proof being his ratings aren't that hot in the Northeast, but in some parts of the most dirt poor, least educated deepest south he is almost the only source of news people rely on. Anyone who thinks that's a good thing does not believe in democracy, and should definitely not be complaining about bias in the media.

Kevin Mudd

Moniquec your claiming the deep south is the least educated is a slam to anyone in the south. How educated are the people who live in the slums of the big cities? And who's has controled the education of these poor people for decades? Isn't it liberals who control schools where most of the students can't read and half drop out? And many of the people in the south moved there from the big cities.Are they uneducated? And just because someone went to a fancy school doesn't make them superior to anyone else. Most of Rush's news he covers comes from liberal sources such as the New York Times and the Washington Post. He quotes from them everyday almost . Are the readers of the New York Times uneducated? I bet the 8th grade reading skills in the deep south are better than in the slums in New York or Chicago or Wasgington DC

Kevin Mudd

As for playing to the lowest common denominator try looking at liberals who claim Bush was responsible for James Bryd.

Kevin Mudd

Moniquec wrote "Proof being his ratings aren't that hot in the Northeast, but in some parts of the most dirt poor, least educated deepest south he is almost the only source of news people rely on."
Where is your source for this ? The deepsouth has all the cable news channels that New York has .The deepsouth has local channels with all of the major networks.The deepsouth has PBS and NPR.The deepsouth has the internet too.I bet in fact that there is a higher percent of households in the deepsouth on the internet than in the slums of New York.

Kevin Mudd

Rush has a better rating in New York than Air America.Does this mean Air America is playing to and even lower common denominator than Rush ?

http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york200408160842.asp

During that same time, WABC, which broadcasts Limbaugh, earned a 4.4-percent share of the audience, putting it in fourth place in the New York market. (The ratings figures, provided by Arbitron, are for all listeners over 12 years old; the company does not release its detailed demographic breakdowns of audiences in each market.)

According to new figures released Friday by Arbitron, Air America has slightly improved WLIB's ratings in the 10 A.M. to 3 P.M. period but has not managed to gain ground on Limbaugh and WABC. In the April/May/June period, WLIB earned a 1.7-percent share of the New York audience in the late morning and early afternoon, putting it in 23rd place in the overall market. For its part, WABC earned a 4.8 share of the audience, making it tied for second place in the market.

EDWARD EUGENE BASKETT

I CALL HIM CHRISTOPHER - MY LETTERS TO CHRIS MATTHEWS OF HARDBALLFriends -Think you will have an interest in this controversial and funny book now listd on Amazon and Forbes, among others, worldwide.Please click on the link for details and lots of smiles and laughter. One man wrote he had a hard time reading through his "tears of laughter." I know you will enjoy the extract. Thank you.

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