Congressional Hearings Into Plame Case

Senate and House committees will hold hearings related to the Plame investigation.  Since the chairmen are Republicans, these may not be the most comprehensive probes in the history of Washington.  However, folks who remember Oliver North's televised spectacle in the Iran-Contra hearings will remember that a dramatic witness can derail the most careful stage management.  Hmm - whom might the Dems attempt to cast in this role?  No, Joe, put your hand down, we are looking for a fresh and at least potentially credible face.  Valerie?  The nation would tune in, certainly...

Lots of reaction at Memeorandum.  And on a vicious, self-indulgent personal note, we are delighted to see that, on balance, Mark Kleiman likes the once-unrealistic idea of hearings.

UPDATE:  So whom might the Dems call?  Frequent commenter Martin makes a good point -check the invitation list to the Democrats private hearing last Friday - four former intelligence officers. Not very photogenic.

Comments

[kim]

Finally, I hear the Cavalry.
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[Les Nessman]

"Since the chairmen are Republicans, these may not be the most comprehensive(sic) probes in the history of Washington."

It may depend on what undereported aspects they probe. I'd like to see the Wilson's answer a few questions, and I'd love to see many members of the press get a grilling; the kind of grilling reporters give others.

[kim]

Can married couples refuse to testify against each other in Congressional hearings? How is the 5th amendment applied in non-criminal venues?

I realize I'm confessing dreadful ignorance here, but I doubt I've been taken for a lawyer.
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[DW West]

Senator Roberts stopped the SSCI from investigating the Niger yellowcake forgeries, claiming that it would interfere with an ongoing FBI investigation. So we all know little that he cares about getting to the truth.

This is another smokescreen.

[Mark Kleiman]

As I predicted, the hearings are intended to protect wrongdoing, not to expose it. I'm happy because I think the attempt will backfire.

[Mackenzie]

What are the chances that either Committee will interview witnesses whose testimony may not adhere 100% to the Party line?

[Geek, Esq.]

These hearings will be nothing more than Pat Roberts trying to torpedo Fitzgerald's investigation.

The idea for these hearings didn't orginate in the Legislative branch.

[Tom Ault]

1. Unless something dramatic is revealed, the Plame hearings will be televised on C-SPAN and no where else. So even if Valerie Plame-o-Wilson is this decade's Oliver Northette, no one is going to see it but the political junkies who have already made up their minds.

2. It's going to take some time to get the hearings going. Since the grand jury is set to issue indictments sometime within the next few months (IIRC, they are empanelled through the end of September, maybe October?), I think the indictments are going to steal any thunder the hearings may have. Of course, it's possible that the grand jury could indict administration officials who would then roll over and reveal a vast conspiracy, but given the way the administration has behaved so far, I don't think that's very likely.
   

[TM]

SO who should Dems clamor to have on the witness list?

I think Ms. Wilson is a longshot, but I am stumped for nominees.

[Martin]

Since i) the White House wont comment on the ongoing investigation (except for when Gonzales goes on national TV) citing Fitzgeralds request not to discuss it, and ii) the White House has pledged full cooperation with Fitzgerald, I'm sure President Bush will ask Roberts to hold off on hearings into the Plame matter. Right?

[kim]

Interesting divergence from paralleling Watergate. Then the onset of Congressional hearings called for rejoicing by the usual suspects.
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[kim]

What Martin? Don't want the truth out? What DW? Maybe Roberts has the results of the FBI investigation now. And he had a perfectly valid excuse to let them pursue the Yellow Cake mystery, then. I hope there are results.
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[Mackenzie]

Congress has refused to investigate the origins of the forged Niger yellowcake documents. Yet the claim of “uranium from Africa” that was based largely on those forgeries made it into the SOTU in January 2003.

But Congress does intend to investigate how information contradicting the President’s claim was leaked.

What hypocrites!

[Geek, Esq.]

First Schiavo, and now this. Further proof that the Republican Congress has absolutely no qualms in abusing their authority in order to disrupt and obstruct judicial proceedings and criminal investigations.

The Putinization of America under Bush continues. The Republican party in Washington is one big criminal enterprise.

[Martin]

TM-did you forget that the Dems have already held a hearing on this?

Of course, they had to use the basement, but start there for a witness list.

[kim]

No Mac, the claim of 'Uranium form Africa' was not based on the forged documents, but if these Hearings are run well you and the rest of the American public will understand how you are wrong.

Mark, the wrongdoing exposed will be the CIA's, the MSM's, Wilson's, and possibly his wife's. Why should you rejoice, except for your deep seated urge to the truth?
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[kim]

Geek, Martin, and Mac don't like this idea. It's the cavalry, folks. Guilty consciences are coming home to roost. There'll be egg on the face galore.
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[kim]

You can hear the lynch mob faltering and muttering to itself. On this site, you can see it.
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[Joe Jackson]

Most of you are too young to remember Watergate. I worked in the Pentagon at the time. The Pentagon has this huge public area, sort of a "mini-mall", with bunches of stores. Another thing the mall had was TVs here and there mounted on the walls.

During the Watergate hearings, the Pentagon mall was packed with people trying to watch or catch a few minutes of the hearings. The scene will be identical once the Plamegate indictments are handed down and the trials begin.

[Mackenzie]

Kim, what was the "uranium from Africa" claim based on? Reports from the British government that our government and our intelligence service were not shown. The British had access to the forged documents. Is there is anything else behind their claims? Why don't we find out?

[LamontP]

Who had the motive to forge and distribute documents about uranium from Niger? It would be easy to pin it on someone just out for the money. But maybe they were the product of a group trying to influence US foeign policy. Such as?

- An exile group looking for the US to overthrow Saddam and install them in power?
- A foreign government with interests in the region?
- A group within the US allied with one of the above, or working on their own to shape policy?

How IS that FBI investigation coming along?

[Syl]

Mackenzie..read the Butler report. The British had both the forged documents and other sources. They stand by the others.

[Syl]

Lamont, or, since it was a bad forgery which makes it obvious it's a forgery, it could be someone trying to discredit our intelligence. Put it in the pipeline then the brownstuff would hit the fan when word got out the documents were forged.

Say a foreign govt. Say, oh, France?

[Florence Schmieg]

Considerations:
1. Why is Miller in jail? Can't quite believe it is to protect Rove or Libby.
2. CIA is still leaking to the NY Times quite regularly. Who?
3. Porter Goss is cleaning out the CIA. They don't like it. Is that connected to this?
4. Since the probe began before Bush got reelected, if he knew Rove was involved why would he PROMOTE him? Wouldn't he try to distance himself from it all?
5. The major administration figures no longer there are Colin Powell, Armitage, Ari Fleischer (who else?). May be nothing but who knows?
6. The CIA doesn't like being the fall guys for missing 9/11 and the Iraq stuff. State department hates the Bush approach to foreign policy. What involvement might this have in all of this?

[LamontP]

Why won't the British share their intelligence source for this with us? Why did the President use 2nd-hand intelligence that his own people were not allowed to confirm? Especially when his own people knew that the one "hard" source they did have was a set of known forgeries.

[kim]

Mac, we don't find out because British Intelligence won't reveal its source. One excuse might be to protect their source. You may invent nefarious rationales at will.
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[Mackenzie]

If the British intelligence was to be believed, then why did the Administration (Rice, Tenet, Fleischer) all state that the 16 words should not have been in the SOTU?

[kim]

Syl, France was the last known suspect a year or so ago when the Italian contact was run to ground. Whether or not France was the origin of the Yellow Cake forgeries has not been confirmed to my knowledge. It is an attractive idea to imagine it as a French ridden stalking horse that they could nobble at will, or the last minute, as happened.

And what about the IAEA figuring out the forgeries so fast and the CIA like molasses on that Cake?

[kim]

Mac, I believe the Admin initially believed that there was something to Joe Wilson's story. He'd been sent by the CIA after all. But when they discovered there was no there there, they regretted having rowed back sixteen strokes. Yet another example of the insidious nature of lies, the reptile, Joe. Remember, they didn't really know what to think of CIA analysis. There was little trust, and much reason for that. Hence: Roberts.
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[Fredrik Nyman]

Are these hearings something the D's have been demanding, in which case it may well become another lesson on the importance of being careful with what one wishes for?

Regardless of who demanded them, I think it's a very bad idea to hold them before Fitzgerald finishes his investigation, since anyone compelled to testify (on pain of a contempt-of-congress penalty) would presumably become immune from prosecution afterwards.

[kim]

Florence, I think Congress should HEAR you.
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[kim]

FN, no they have not been demanding them and the universal horror they have shown on hearing of Hearings contrasts instructively with the emotions felt at the onset of Congressional Hearings in the Watergate (Presidential assassination by disgruntled office seeker) Mess.
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[Tommy V]

The hang-Rove crowd doesn't like this idea so that makes me wonder. That being said...

I just don't see the point. Why drag this out? Let Fitzgerald do his job .

(Mackenize, you need to update yourself with the SSCI report. Your information seems to be stick in a time before that)

[Cecil Turner]

"Especially when his own people knew that the one "hard" source they did have was a set of known forgeries."

That "hard" source wasn't even available until after the British dossier had been published. The initial source was the suspicious visit three years earlier, and subsequent reporting. Butler was unequivocal on the point:

[W]e have concluded that:

• a. It is accepted by all parties that Iraqi officials visited Niger in 1999.
• b. The British Government had intelligence from several different sources indicating that this visit was for the purpose of acquiring uranium. Since uranium constitutes almost three-quarters of Niger’s exports, the intelligence was credible.
• c. The evidence was not conclusive that Iraq actually purchased, as opposed to having sought, uranium and the British Government did not claim this.
• d. The forged documents were not available to the British Government at the time its assessment was made, and so the fact of the forgery does not undermine it.

[Steven J.]

KIM - "But when they discovered there was no there there"

The ISG backs up Wilson's finding.

[Steven J.]

KIM - "Mark, the wrongdoing exposed will be the CIA's, the MSM's, Wilson's, and possibly his wife's. "

In other words, "a conspiracy so immense."

:-)

[Steven J.]

FREDRIK - "since anyone compelled to testify (on pain of a contempt-of-congress penalty) would presumably become immune from prosecution afterwards."

That's how North got his felony conviction overturned.

[kim]

Please, SJ, which of Wilson's findings. The one he misinterpreted, the one he lied about, or the one oh I could go on and on. You deceive yourself about Joe. He's a liar.

The there there that I'm talking about is the charge that his findings were ignored.

Oh silly, I said wrongdoing by the CIA, by Wilson, and by the MSM. I didn't say they conspired. That must be from your mind. "Little Smiley Face".
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[Steven J.]

KIM - "Please, SJ, which of Wilson's findings. "

The one that was the basis for this report:

(U) On March 1, 2002, INR published an intelligence assessment, Niger: Sale of Uranium is Unlikely. The INR analyst who drafted the assessment told the Committee staff that he had been told that the piece was in response to interest from the Vice President’s office in the alleged Iraq-Niger uranium deal.

PAGE 42, SSCI report

[Steven J.]

KIM - "The there there that I'm talking about is the charge that his findings were ignored."

"But the intelligence and the facts were being fixed around the policy."

[kim]

Alright, SJ, think. Does your citation back up the idea that the administration ignored Joe Wilson's report?
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[Marianne]

Kim, your characterization of Joe Wilson as a liar is getting stale.

[RiverRat]

Did Plame Bomb the Chinese Embassy?

[kim]

Certainly not a stale as his lies. Show me why you think he is not a liar, and show me why his lies are not central to this whole mess. Now, what is stale? So stale Congress wants to investigate it? And V and J at the top of the list of witnesses? I can't say it often enough, the persifalsge of Joe Wilson has emplamed us all.

Whew. Stale. Fah.
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[TexasToast]

KIM - "Mark, the wrongdoing exposed will be the CIA's, the MSM's, Wilson's, and possibly his wife's. "

As an exercise, lets construct an alternate universe – where Kim and some others apparently reside.

a) Everyone in the Washington cocktail circuit knew that Joe Wilson’s wife worked at CIA including the six reporters to whom certain administration officials chatted (in an offhand manner) after the reporters initiated the conversations by answering their telephones. The reporters somehow managed to “dig out” information on something of no real importance (and they must have conspired because they all “dug out” the same information – even though it was well know already). In fact, these conversations primarily dealt with entitlement reform. Besides, people gossip about the status of CIA employees all the time, so the criminal referral for revealing this information reveals the common hatred for our President shared by the CIA, the MSM and Joe Wilson (who is a lying grandstander), and maybe a connection between them;
b) Karl Rove was rather surprised (“You heard that too?”) that Matt Cooper didn’t know the well known fact that Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA as a glorified secretary. She was either the connection between Wilson and her superiors or managed to convince her superiors to send Wilson to Niger to cover the CIA’s obvious wrongdoing in not finding evidence to support the known information on Iraqi nuclear ambitions. Did I mention Joe Wilson is a lying grandstander?;
c) Joe Wilson lied about what he had found in Niger by not reporting all the vast commercial and other contacts between Iraq and Niger and by not reporting that Iraq was seeking uranium in other parts of Africa as well. It was important to highlight the lie (but not as important as entitlement reform!) because the Times (doing their part as fellow haters of the President) had printed the lies of that incompetent buffoon who got a free trip to “tropical” Niger. He didn’t find anything because he didn’t want to find anything and the CIA didn’t want him to find anything. Not surprising from a lying grandstander like Joe Wilson;
d) The Iraq War was fought in order to bring democracy, mom, apple pie and the American way of life to the terrorists in Iraq who attacked us on 9/11. Besides, Saddam was a bad man who was just itching to give nucks to bin Laden, and we should have been welcomed as liberators for getting rid of him. All the trouble in Iraq is the result of the MSM (continuing in their role as Bush haters) talks about car bombs and casualties and not the “good” things happening in Iraq.
e) We know Saddam was seeking uranium in Niger, in the rest of Africa, and that he had reconstituted WMDs in “…Tikrit and that area”. The CIA should have been able to provide the proof of what we knew – the proof of the “imminent threat” of “weapons of mass destruction program related activities”. That they didn’t is proof of their wrongdoing! Instead, we got grandstanding lying Joe Wilson who said he didn’t find evidence in Niger to support the sixteen words. The British have “proof” beyond the forged documents and Joe didn’t want to find it! I’ll bet he really did! Lets have hearings and ask lying Joe Wilson!

[Steven J.]

KIM - "Alright, SJ, think. Does your citation back up the idea that the administration ignored Joe Wilson's report?"

YES

[Marianne]

The "Wilson is a liar" thread is just a side show intended to focus attention on a trivial matter rather than the real story underlying the cover-up:

1. Forged documents were created and distributed in an attempt to influence our foreign policy.
2. An Administration with little real proof of WMD's grasped that unfortunate straw and ran with it.

Kim, why not ask the RNC to update their talking points so you have some fresh material?

[kim]

Alright SJ, why do you think so?

Alright, Marianne, let's find out who composed the Yellow Cake Letters and why.

Alright, TT. Yes you too can have a rich imagination.
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[Steven J.]

KIM -

I think the Bush Administration ignored the Wilson finding because it did not fit in with their desire to go to war.

[Crank]

Let the nekkid macarena begin!