Novak Is Back

Bob Novak is back, defending himself from the criticism launched by former CIA press spokesperson Bill Harlow in last week's WaPo.

A reprise of our earlier thoughts, from the Table Pounding Finish - superficially, the Harlow/Novak dispute looks like an insoluble "he said/he said" problem.  However, this sort of debacle - a nationally syndicated columnist ignores a clear warning from the CIA press office and outs a covert agent - does not happen every day, or even every decade.

In any proper bureaucracy, a miscommunication of this magnitude would have produced a mountain of memos.  Since (per Wilson's book, "The Politics of Truth") his wife had been warned on July 8 that Novak was pursuing this story, she or her superior should have written a CYA memo to the press office warning them to deal with this with vigor and commitment.  The press office should have made plans to contact Novak's editor and/or publisher if Novak was unwilling to cooperate.

The press office also should have conducted an after-the-fact review, generating poetic What Went Wrong, and How We Can Improve memos.  And there should be a memo explaining their evident failure to contact Novak's editors - I say "evident" based on the comments of Fred Hiatt, editorial page editor of the WaPo, and Steve Huntley, editorial page editor of the Chicago Sun-Times, as reported by Howard Kurtz in Sept 2003.

Presumably, Fitzgerald has gathered all this material, if it exists.  However, a reporter might want to verify with Harlow that such a memo-blizzard actually occurred, or let him regale us with an explanation of why it did not.

Novak also reminds us of an earlier puzzle:

There never was any question of me talking about Mrs. Wilson "authorizing." I was told she "suggested" the mission, and that is what I asked Harlow. His denial was contradicted in July 2004 by a unanimous Senate Intelligence Committee report. The report said Wilson's wife "suggested his name for the trip."

Well, fine.  The puzzle is that, in his e-mail describing his exchange with Rove, Matt Cooper of TIME used the word "authorized":

Rove told Cooper that Wilson's trip had not been authorized by "DCIA"—CIA Director George Tenet—or Vice President Dick Cheney. Rather, "it was, KR said, wilson's wife, who apparently works at the agency on wmd [weapons of mass destruction] issues who authorized the trip."

Well, it seems to be accepted that Rove was Novak's second source, and didn't say much beyond "I heard that, too".  However, it is interesting that Novak's first source had it right.  When time permits, I want to stare at the stories about the INR memo and see how that memo is reported to have characterized her involvement.  Here is the WSJ, Oct 2003; Times, July 16; the WaPo, July 16; the WSJ, July 19; and the WaPo, July 21 (The Sign of the 'S').  For starters.

MORE:  After some preliminary staring, I will say, "Inconclusive, but..." - the memo is based on the notes of the INR chap at the famous meeting described in the Senate Subcommittee on Intelligence report.  Even the aggressive Senators did not infer that Ms. Plame "authorized" the trip, and it appears, from the Oct 2003 description of the memo, that the INR analyst did not think she had.  My guess - the INR memo had her "suggesting", not "authorizing" the trip, and Novak's first source was familiar (directly or indirectly) with the memo.

And Rove?  Maybe Cooper or Rove conflated two ideas - "Cheney did not authorize Wilson's trip, his wife suggested it and the CIA approved it" - became condensed by Rove or Cooper to "she authorized it".

Rove notwithstanding, Cooper was closer to the truth in his TIME article, saying that "These officials have suggested that she was involved in her husband's being dispatched Niger to investigate...".  Poor Karl - no one believes him.

MAYBE IT'S A 'BOB' THING: Bob Somerby of the Daily Howler comes out swinging on behalf of Bob Novak, with a follow-up.

Comments

[Martin]

Remember when Rove told Cooper information would be declassified soon? What information" would that be?

What if the WH had ordered Plame's status be declassified before they started the newsfeed-so everything would be hunky-dory when the cloums came out?

What if somebody at the CIA refused to declassify it as a revenge play, or maybe it was just incompetence, e.g. they lost the request and it never got processed?

Novak was then calling the CIA as a formality, and thought he was dealing with a not in the know press hack-so he felt comfortable going ahead.

Yet somehow Plame's status stayed classified-and not only do Rove, Libby, and Novhack all have egg on their face-it's a traitor omelette.

[Jimmy's Attack Rabbit]

Nada-gate is still going on? I thought Jimmy C. was sending clear signals it was time to get back to Club Gitmo wailing. (j/k).
I'd like to thank the Plame Blogcasting Network for keeping track of this burning issue. ......Really! It just cracks me up to read who burns up their credibilty attacking the Administration on this.

[Christopher Fotos]

What galls me about the latest Novak go-round is that we need an opinion columnist to correct the record about Joe Wilson's claims--unrebutted in last Wednesday's Pincus/VandeHei story--that Plame had nothing to do with Wilson going to Niger. Then there's the other claim that Wilson established Iraq had not sought uranium in Niger. The Senate Intelligence Committee found otherwise, but Wilson's original claims seem to have a new lease on life--partly thanks to the Washington Post.

Guess we're all waiting for the day when Novak can tell all. What are the chances that after Fitzgerald wraps it up, Novak declares some new wringle prevents him from ever telling his side of the story?

[Crank]

TM, I'm starting to picture a room in your house with copies of stories about Plame plastered all over the walls, with color-coded highlighting and everything. Keep up the great work.

[Jeff]

TM - Another item that points to a concerted effort to maximize, even falsify, Plame's role in Wilson's trip is Pincus' report that his source told him that Plame set up the trip as a boondoggle. Recall that Pincus wasn't buying it even at the time, and for me there is still the question of why that is. But in any case, you've got another SAO telling a reporter that the White House's story is that Plame set up -- not a synonym of "authorized" but of pretty equal strength and falsity, I would say -- Wilson's trip. On what Novak asked Harlow -- suggested, or authorized -- we really do have a he said, he said, with several suggestions that Novak's allies were pushing the stronger version.

Remember too that we have plausible claims that the SSCI went too far even in saying that Plame suggested Wilson for the trip. All we've got is a brief quote out of a memo from Plame, which could very well, as has been suggested, been written in response to a request of some kind. This jibes with the information coming out of the CIA itself. I'm glad you're willing to characterize the Senators as aggressive, in any case. I think that's right.

One other thing: there's something strange going on with this INR memo business, at least in the TIME article. Look at the description and the relevant dating of the memo discussed in the article. It is probably sloppy writing, but it sure doesn't sound like the INR memo we've all been talking about.

Christopher Fotos - Could you cite the relevant text for the claim Wilson made about his wife having nothing to do with it, and cite it fully. I've never seen a substantial citation, which means at least a couple of sentences around the one allegedly self-condemning sentence. I'm not ready to defend Wilson on this ground. But I'd like to see it. I think somewhat more strongly that Wilson did not claim that he had established that Iraq had not sought uranium in Niger. I'd like to see the evidence for that one as well. I'll add this too: Novak's initial effort at restoring his honor and dignity -- the column of October 1, 2003 -- is filled with falsehoods that look to me like deliberate ones. Not impressive at all. It's curious to me too that Novak always says he's not talking at the advice of his lawyer, as opposed to everyone else, who seems to say it's at the request of the prosecutor. I wonder why that is.

[Appalled Moderate]

Jeff:

This is how the NYT describes the INR memo:

"The memorandum was dated June 10, 2003, nearly four weeks before Mr. Wilson wrote an Op-Ed article for The New York Times in which he recounted his mission and accused the administration of twisting intelligence to exaggerate the threat from Iraq. The memorandum was written for Marc Grossman, then the under secretary of state for political affairs, and it referred explicitly to Valerie Wilson as Mr. Wilson's wife, according to a government official who reread the document on Friday."

This would be utterly consistent with the Time Magazine squib:

"The previously undisclosed fact gathering began in the first week of June 2003 at the CIA, when its public-affairs office received an inquiry about Wilson's trip to Africa from veteran Washington Post reporter Walter Pincus. That office then contacted Plame's unit, which had sent Wilson to Niger, but stopped short of drafting an internal report. The same week, Under Secretary of State Marc Grossman asked for and received a memo on the Wilson trip from Carl Ford, head of the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research."

The Time piece then goes on to indicate the White House also requested information, though when these requests were made is vague. Frankly, because everyone has their eyes on Rove, they are forgetting the more obvious question -- what did the Vice President's office (and chief of staff) know about an operation that was allegedly run at their behest.

Don't follow the reporters. They need motion and novelty and a new angle. Usually, the result is another irrelevancy or a red herring. Follow the investigators. The ultimate end of their work is where there will be a scandal or a lack of it. (Because, the world has now adjusted to the fact Rove lied about his involvement and Bush is not going to fire him over it. The goalposts, they are a movin.)

[Christopher Fotos]

Jeff--as recounted by Susan Schmidt of the Washington Post on July 10, 2004:

Former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, dispatched by the CIA in February 2002 to investigate reports that Iraq sought to reconstitute its nuclear weapons program with uranium from Africa, was specifically recommended for the mission by his wife, a CIA employee, contrary to what he has said publicly...

The story is based on the Senate Intelligence Committee report released last summer.

The report states that a CIA official told the Senate committee that Plame "offered up" Wilson's name for the Niger trip, then on Feb. 12, 2002, sent a memo to a deputy chief in the CIA's Directorate of Operations saying her husband "has good relations with both the PM [prime minister] and the former Minister of Mines (not to mention lots of French contacts), both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity." The next day, the operations official cabled an overseas officer seeking concurrence with the idea of sending Wilson, the report said.

Wilson has asserted that his wife was not involved in the decision to send him to Niger.

"Valerie had nothing to do with the matter," Wilson wrote in a memoir published this year. "She definitely had not proposed that I make the trip."

The panel found that Wilson's report, rather than debunking intelligence about purported uranium sales to Iraq, as he has said, bolstered the case for most intelligence analysts. And contrary to Wilson's assertions and even the government's previous statements, the CIA did not tell the White House it had qualms about the reliability of the Africa intelligence that made its way into 16 fateful words in President Bush's January 2003 State of the Union address.

Yesterday's report said that whether Iraq sought to buy lightly enriched "yellowcake" uranium from Niger is one of the few bits of prewar intelligence that remains an open question. Much of the rest of the intelligence suggesting a buildup of weapons of mass destruction was unfounded, the report said. ...

For more context, including more of what you're after, you need to go to the Senate Intelligence Committee report itself. The link to the report is available at the Schmidt story.

There's also a little bit in there about Novak et al.

[Joe Mealyus]

"....superficially, the Harlow/Novak dispute looks like an insoluble "he said/he said" problem."

But only superficially. The Daily Howler is very good on this point (see July 29) - "Novak and Harlow *disagree* on nothing," as he says.

"However, this sort of debacle - a nationally syndicated columnist ignores a clear warning from the CIA press office and outs a covert agent - does not happen every day, or even every decade."

And as any close follower of this whole case should know, one of the key facts in dispute is whether there was any "debacle"
at all - how much the CIA (as communicated by Harlow or as an institution, either way) cared about Plame's status. (Somerby is very good on the pointless argument Rove-haters make that the CIA referral by itself proves anything).

"In any proper bureaucracy, a miscommunication of this magnitude would have produced a mountain of memos."

Sure. And if intelligent assets overseas were truly imperiled by the outing of Plame, then somewhere those assets are awaiting an intrepid NYT or Wapo reporter to find them and tell us their story - but nothing of this sort has occurred, as far as I know. (This doesn't mean that people weren't imperiled, of course, just as no news about the "mountain of memos" doesn't mean they weren't written).

The Daily Howler is not only the go-to parser on the Novak v. Harlow angle, it's also doing yeoman work on another JOM specialty - detailing the poor reading comprehension of Daily Kos posters (see July 30).

[Jeff]

Appalled Moderate - Unless the public affairs office of the CIA contacted Plame's unit during the second week of June, then there's this inconsistency: the INR memo is reportedly dated June 10 -- second week of June. TIME seems to say Grossman asked for and received the memo during the first week of June. Second inconsistency: the INR memo, I thought, was reported to mention Wilson's trip and his wife only tangentially, marginally, and/or in a footnote or two. TIME describes the memo as "a memo on the Wilson trip." Any explanation for those two inconsistencies? Sloppy reporting? They really are referring to the second week of June, as that's when the CIA public affairs office contacted Plame's unit?

I have not had my eyes only on Rove -- and I remain appalled that Rove has brought such dishonor and indignity to the White House. Even if he is not ultimately indicted.

Christopher Fotos - No, I've already addressed the SSCI report, which is what you give me along with Steno Susan Schmidt's quote unquote reporting on it. You did remind me, however, that the only basis for the claim by the SSCI I can see is actually the CIA official's recalling that Wilson's wife "offered up" his name. You can see that the aggressive Senators (as TM is now calling them) who produced the SSCI report were out to get Wilson. For instance, I am pretty sure that Wilson never asserted that the CIA did tell the White House that it had qualms about the reliability of the intelligence that led to the 16 words in the SOTU. (Even though I believe it did -- though that is another issue, having to do with the fact that the CIA told the president it had qualms about the intelligence earlier, leading to a similar claim in the Cincinnati speech being removed, but then Tenet failed to do so again regardint the SOTU, or something like that. It's another topic where there has been a lot of obfuscation from the administration and their supporters in the Senate.)

What I want is the claim by Wilson that you all say is untrue and contradicted. The memoir - what page is the reference? I'd like to have a look at more than one or two sentences. What was "the matter" he referred to?

[Appalled Moderate]

Jeff:

Put your money on sloppy writing in Time. The new info in that article is the Pincus request and vague inferences the White House asked for info. This feels like a sentence thrown in to bring these new items into some kind of timeline with the already known information.

Rove should be fired. He won't be. My behind is chapped on this because if that lie had not been told in 2003 (he's not involved), I think the outrage over the disclosures people did know about (the Hardball call -- Plame is "fair game") would have combined with the other disclosures to force him out.

[Jeff]

Joe Mealyus - Okay, let's talk reading comprehension. Here's the WaPo on Harlow:

Harlow, the former CIA spokesman, said in an interview yesterday that he testified last year before a grand jury about conversations he had with Novak at least three days before the column was published. He said he warned Novak, in the strongest terms he was permitted to use without revealing classified information, that Wilson's wife had not authorized the mission and that if he did write about it, her name should not be revealed.

Harlow said that after Novak's call, he checked Plame's status and confirmed that she was an undercover operative. He said he called Novak back to repeat that the story Novak had related to him was wrong and that Plame's name should not be used. But he did not tell Novak directly that she was undercover because that was classified.

From this, it certainly appears that the incorrect story Novak had related to Harlow, according to Harlow, included the claim that Plame authorized Wilson's trip. Novak appears to dispute that. That is a pretty clear disagreement.

[Jeff]

TM - Looking over the WaPo story on Harlow reminded me of another piece of testimony suggesting that Novak et al - in this instance, Novak himself - were deliberately and concertedly pushing the line that Plame authorized, set up, had arranged Wilson's trip. This is the unnamed individual, stranger to Novak and friend of Wilson, who approached Novak on the street and heard about it from Novak -- to be sure, our source for this information is Joe Wilson, but apparently the person has been questioned by the grand jury, and according to Wilson's book, if I remember the reports, this individual immediately went to Wilson's office, recounted what s/he had experienced, and wrote out and signed and dated some kind of text to that effect. So this one is provisional - but it seems to me there is a pretty significant body of evidence so far that Novak was involved in a deliberate effort to circulate a known falsehood - that Plame, not the Vice President, had authorized Wilson's trip. It is of course true that Cheney did not authorize Wilson's trip, and I don't believe Wilson ever claimed that he did. In his op-ed he laid out the chain of events that led to his trip, best as he understood them, with great precision and clarity. Kristof was less clear and precise, though not incorrect -- "at the behest of" is rather ambiguous, but I've not heard anyone explain why we should blame Wilson for that.

[Florence Schmieg]

I think that I read that Joe Wilson adamantly stated on "Meet the Press" that his wife had nothing to do with his trip to Niger. I have read so much that I don't really have a reference to give for it.

I still don't see why some of you want to fire someone for not committing a crime as I suspect is the truth. And, most appalling, not believing in the innocent until proven guilty aspect of American justice.

[Syl]

Jeff

What Novak said in his piece was "Two senior administration officials told me Wilson's wife suggested sending him..."

Note the word 'suggested', not 'authorized'.

[Joe Mealyus]

"Joe Mealyus - Okay, let's talk reading comprehension."

Note first of all that Somerby and the Kos guy were writing before Novak wrote this.

Then note that there has never been any contradiction - re "Wilson's wife had not authorized the mission" - since Novak did not put any such statement into his article. That's one of the reasons why Somerby is saying they don't disagree - Harlow says he told Novak she didn't authorize the mission, and Novak didn't write that she did. The "pretty clear disagreement" is about what Novak said to Harlow, not about what he wrote in his column - i.e. it's trivial.

[boris]

It is difficult for me to take the following at face value ...

Harlow said that after Novak's call, he checked Plame's status and confirmed that she was an undercover operative. He said he called Novak back to repeat that the story Novak had related to him was wrong and that Plame's name should not be used. But he did not tell Novak directly that she was undercover because that was classified.

I have no problem with the logic that V.P. could have CIA designated status of undercover operative, who was not in fact undercover at the time.

I have a big problem with the idea that she was undercover while openly working at CIA headquarters as an analyst.

[Jeff]

Florence Schmieg - What a tiresome response! The whole point of my asking for actual text on Wilson is that the sort of information you're floating yet again gets passed around until it is what the Red Staters call a Known Fact - roughly, something everybody supposedly knows that in fact is not a fact. So cites and links would be helpful.

I already anticipated this sort of response on Rove. Are your morals really so stripped by just five years of the Bush administration that as long as someone has not committed a crime, their job in the most important place in the world -- the White House -- is safe? Are you serious? I believe -- I bet more than you -- in the legal standard that someone is innocent until proven guilty. But again, it is not only legal guilt that qualifies someone -- in this case, far and away President Bush's most improtant and trusted advisor -- for being fired from being the President of the United States' closest advisor. Karl Rove dishonored the White House, and robbed it of some of its dignity, whether he committed a crime or not, and those are President Bush's standards themselves. I have no idea whether Rove is going to be indicted. But I think Rove should be fired on the basis of what we already know. Evidently, for you only a criminal indictment is enough.

[boris]

it seems to me there is a pretty significant body of evidence so far that Novak was involved in a deliberate effort to circulate a known falsehood - that Plame, not the Vice President, had authorized Wilson's trip.

It seems to me there isn't.

I don't believe Wilson ever claimed that he did.

True, but if reporters were bringing up the subject to Rove under the misunderstanding that that was the case, it doesn't matter what Wilson technically wrote or what impression he intended to imply. The misunderstanding itself was reason enough to address it and set the record straight.

[Jeff]

Joe Mealyus - You acknowledge that there is a disagreement over what Novak said to Harlow. You call it trivial. I don't think it is, since the story that Plame authorized Wilson's trip appears to be a major, false talking point in the twin attacks launched from the White House against Wilson and the CIA.

Syl, to be crystal clear, look at today's Novak piece and the WaPo piece on Harlow. It's not a question of what Novak wrote in his original piece, it's a question of what Novak said to Harlow.

Which reminds me: I'm not quite sure why TM says that Novak's first source had it right. On a scenario consistent with Harlow's version, Novak's two sources push the line that Plame authorized Wilson's trip. Harlow shoots that down. Novak can't publish it, and doesn't. Unless TM has some reason to think Novak's version is the definitive one.

One last thing to bolster the idea that Novak's version is right. It's plausible that Harlow would deny that Plame suggested her husband, since it appears quite plausible that Plame did not suggest her husband. Or maybe she offered up his name along with five others. Who knows? The SSCI report doesn't tell us much, or as much as they tell us they tell us.

[Syl]

Jeff

Known Fact? You mean like Bush lied and plastic turkey?

chortle

Anyway, you've got fingers. You can use Google yourself.

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

'What I want is the claim by Wilson that you all say is untrue and contradicted. The memoir - what page is the reference? I'd like to have a look at more than one or two sentences.'

Then go to the library, grab a copy of The Politics of Truth, look in the index for 'Valerie Plame', and READ IT for yourself.

'It is of course true that Cheney did not authorize Wilson's trip, and I don't believe Wilson ever claimed that he did. .... Kristof was less clear and precise, though not incorrect -- "at the behest of" is rather ambiguous....'

You are a blithering idiot. If you can find your way to a library, after you read Joe Wilson writing that his wife had nothing to do with his trip to Niger, wander over to the dictionaries and look up 'behest'.

Hell, I'll do it for your little lost self:

Behest n. A command. A mandate. An injunction

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

'I'm not quite sure why TM says that Novak's first source had it right.'

That's because you appear not to comprehend simple English

.On a scenario consistent with Harlow's version, Novak's two sources push the line that Plame authorized Wilson's trip. Harlow shoots that down. Novak can't publish it, and doesn't. Unless TM has some reason to think Novak's version is the definitive one.'

Other than what Novak ACTUALLY WROTE in the July 14, 2003 column?

[Jeff]

Okay, Patrick, you're ridiculously abusive, so I'm inclined not to respond, but I don't want you to think I concede you're right, since you're not. On Novak v. Harlow, it actually appears to be you who doesn't understand. Here's my reading: TM implies Novak's other administration source beside Rove told Novak Plame suggested, not authorized, Wilson's trip. I say that requires believing Novak's version of his interaction with Harlow, rather than Harlow, and it's unclear to me why we should. I then laid out the alternative scenario where Novak publishes "suggested" on the 14th of July not because of what his first source told him but because of what Harlow told him. Now you tell me what I'm misunderstanding. Or confess your own.

I will in fact read all of Wilson's book myself, I was just hoping that those who were making the accusations could provide the evidence for discussion.

On Kristof's phrasing, here's what I had in mind. Aside from the fact that "behest" can also mean "bidding" -- which is less strong, less obligatory than command, injunction etc -- what Kristof does is condense a several step process, probably explained to him by Wilson as he explains it in his op-ed, into that phrase. Cheney or Cheney's office tasks the CIA with looking into the reports about Niger-Iraq-uranium. The CIA comes up with the idea of sending someone to Niger to fulfill that injunction. The CIA comes up with Wilson as the specific person to go to Niger, hence to look into the reports, hence to fulfill the injunction from Cheney's office. Would I have written it that way? No. I have no brief for Kristof. Was Kristof being deliberately misleading? I doubt it. But let's say I'm a blithering idiot, as you suggest, and Kristof was crystal clear, and incorrect, in claiming that one fine day Dick Cheney walked up to Joe Wilson and said, "My young man, go to Niger to look into reports that Iraq tried to acquire uranium there." Guess what? When he published in his own name, Joe Wilson set the record straight on that one. And then the actual point of the sentence you take me to task for stands. Wilson is not to blame for what Kristof wrote.

[MJW]

Jeff denies Wilson said he was sent by the Vice President's office or that he claimed the information from his report made it back to the White House. I believe this CNN report shows he is mistaken. In it, Wilson says he was sent "at the request I was told of the office of the vice president, which had seen a report in intelligence channels about this purported memorandum of agreement on uranium sales from Niger to Iraq." Later, in discussing whether his report made it back to the VP's office, he said, "the standard operating procedure when we were there, of course, was that if you tasked at my level and above an executive branch agency with a specific question, you received a specific response. Now, clearly somebody in the vice president's office is within that circle that Dr. Rice is speaking of. That person or that office asked the question and that office received a very specific response."

[Martin]

The fact that you guys are castigating Wilson by pushing the "his wife sent him" ON THIS VERY THREAD is exactly why the White House leaked it in the first place.

What tools you are.

[MJW]

Jeff claims behest doesn't necessarily imply a command because it can also mean bidding. Webster's Seventh New Collegiate Dictionary defines bid as "to issue an order : TELL." In a usage note under command, it says: "BID suggests giving orders peremptorily as to children or servants."

[Martin]

Yes MJW and the White House bid you to trash Wilson and you have complied. Are you a child or a servant?

[Jeff]

MJW - Yeah, no, even aside from the fact that Wilson specifies that he's reporting what he was told, what he's saying is that his trip was the result of Cheney's office's tasking the CIA with looking into the intelligence reports, which it was. He had just explained it in greater detail in his op-ed. Clearly, Wilson is interested in tying his trip to the administration, and the VP's office more particularly. Is he misleading here, is he suggesting the VP came up to him and said, Joe, I've got a trip for you? Certainly not more misleading than the administration was in response.

As for what happened with the report generated by his trip, I think Wilson is very clear that he is talking about what should have and ordinarily would have happened -- and he is very explicit about the basis for that claim. So he is very clearly not making a claim about what he knows did happen.

A really interesting question, for me, to which I don't think we have an answer, is: did the Vice President's office receive a response to its question that included information about WIlson's trip? Tenet's statement of July 11 2003 and the SSCI certainly seek to leave the impression that the report generated by Wilson's trip was not seen by anyone high up in the administration, but I don't think they actually assert that. (Uh oh, here comes Patrick R. Sullivan to call me a blithering idiot who can't read English, just when I think I'm being a pretty careful reader and a thoughtful analyst of this whole nest of issues. Or maybe not.) So it would be interesting to have someone in the Vice President's office authoritatively answer the question, Did the VP or anyone in his office ever see, hear about, or otherwise access the report generated by Wilson's trip, or gain any information about the results of Wilson's trip before May 2003? If so, when, how, and what, exactly? This should happen in the name of openness, transparency and the public's right to know about our democratic government.

[Jeff]

MJW - Two things. I'm using the OED, which trumps Webster's any day, in my book. I also just think in ordinary usage doing something at someone's behest is less strong, less obligatory than doing something at someone's command. But anyway, even if I'm wrong, even if I give you that one, the substance of my response stands. That's why I wrote, "Aside from the fact . . ."

This is an example of something I find a little frustrating here, which I may also participate in. People go after this point or that point, without keeping track of the points that their adversaries get right, which is not important in itself but is important for keeping track of the main lines of interpretation of argument over Plame et al.

[MJW]

Martin asks: "Remember when Rove told Cooper information would be declassified soon? What information would that be?" He then proceeds to spin a theory based, essentially, on nothing. It seems reasonable to assume Rove was referring to the statement issued later that same day by George Tenet concerning the situation surrounding the "sixteen words" in the State of the Uion address. A statement which undoubtedly contained some previously classified material.

I also should point out that if the President wants to declassify something, he doesn't need the CIA's permission. He, not the CIA, is the boss of the executive branch.

[MJW]

So, Jeff, just out of curiosity, what is the OED's definition of bidding?

[MJW]

Jeff - I read the CNN interview differently. It sounds to me like Wilson is saying the White House received his report and chose to ignore it. I believe there's plenty of other evidence to support my interpretation. For example, in the same interview, Hemmer quotes Rice about not knowing about Wilson's report, ending with, "You say that is not possible. Why not?" Wilson doesn't say, "Well, it might be possible." Instead he explains why it allegedly isn't possible.

In regard to whether Wison claimed the trip was at the bidding of the VP's office: First, I'm not sure why the comment "it was reported to me" substantially alters the meaning, unless Wilson was hinting he had doubts about the accuracy of the report -- which I don't see. Second, even if we ignore this more-or-less direct claim, Wilson clearly implied he was sent by the VP and did nothing to dispel that impression. I suggest anyone who doubts this read the articles written at the time of the original controversy. For instance, this CNN story stating that "In an op-ed piece published in Sunday's New York Times, Wilson wrote that the CIA sent him to Niger in February 2002 at the request of Vice President Dick Cheney's office." Or this newspaper story which says, "Wilson says he was sent on behalf of Vice President Cheney." Or this blog which says Wilson was sent "at the behest of Dick Cheney to investigate the veracity of the Niger evidence." Or this much publicised open letter from the self-styled "Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity" claiming that Joseph Wilson was "the former US ambassador who visited Niger at Cheney's request."

[TM]

The English as she is spoke...

A word we haven't fought over (but the day is young... is "boondoggle".

From my Merriam webster - "a wasteful or impractical project or activity often involving graft."

Now, most folks associate "corporate boondoggle" with good times - the companygolf outing, for example.

But the word is also used in the "waste of time" sense. Which might be all that Pincus was trying to say here - no one claims that a trip to Niger is a fun-filled frolic, buit it looked like (to the INR staffer, certainly) a waste of time.

As to Jeff's notion that Novak moved from "authorized" to "suggested" after talking to Harlow, I suggested that myself a few days back, so I am not in a position to say it is a terrible idea.

However, Novak ought to be reporting, not editorializing - unless he went back to his source for clarification, or checked his notes, or something, he had a bit of a problem.

Of course, he eventually wrote "suggested", as did Cooper - maybe he did check back, or maybe his first source used "suggested" or "involved", or maybe Cooper misquoted Rove.

[TM]

Let's get the Noval quote from the Wilson book (p. 343 / firstpage of Ch. 17):

My friend then asked whaT Novak thought of me and Novak answered:

"Wilson's an asshole. The CIA sent him. His wife, Valerie, works for the CIA. She's a weapons of mass destruction specialist. She sent him".

The CIA sent him, she sent him... what does it mean, and who dares enter the mind of Bob Novak? Maybe he is completing a syllogism in his head, and trying it out on a live audience.

This will be unambiguous for some, I presume.

There is also a full paragraph on p. 346 explaining the perils of the appearance of nepotism, and denying her involvement. I don't get paid enough for this, but:

Quite apart form the matter of her employment, the assertion that Valerie had played any substantive role in the decision to ask me ot go to Niger was false on the face of it. Anyone who knows anything about the government bureaucracy knows that public servants go to great lengths to avoid nepotism or any appearance of it... Valerie could not havce stood in the chain of command had she tried to. Dick Cheney might be able to find a way to appoint one of his daughters to a key decision-making position in the Staet Dept's Middle East Bureau, as he did; but Valerie could not - and would not if she could - have had anything to do with the CIA decision to ask me to travel to Niamey.

[SKIP A Few Paragraphs...

So what of she conveyed a request to me to come to the Agency to talk about Niger? She played absolutely no part in the decision to send me there.

Lots of folks took that to be a denial of her involvement. It also suggests he is quite sensitive about the nepotism thing.

[Lesley]

"So what of she conveyed a request to me to come to the Agency to talk about Niger? She played absolutely no part in the decision to send me there."

It really does beg the question, had Valerie Plame not worked at CIA, would Joseph Wilson had been their first choice for the Niger mission?

[MJW]

I'm skeptical of the notion that Novak moved from authorized to suggested after talking to Harlow. The CIA line at the time seems to be that Plame had NOTHING to do with the trip, as evidenced by this quote:

"A senior intelligence official confirmed that Plame was a Directorate of Operations undercover officer who worked 'alongside' the operations officers who asked her husband to travel to Niger. But he said she did not recommend her husband to undertake the Niger assignment. 'They [the officers who did ask Wilson to check the uranium story] were aware of who she was married to, which is not surprising,' he said. 'There are people elsewhere in government who are trying to make her look like she was the one who was cooking this up, for some reason,' he said. 'I can't figure out what it could be ..."

Perhaps the "senior intelligence official" was Harlow, himself. In any case, this still seems to be Harlow's opinion, despite evidence to the contrary.

I don't think it's logical that Novak decided to "split the difference" between authorized and no invlovement to come up with suggested.

But, then again, he did credit Rove as a second source because he'd "heard that too," so, who really knows?

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

'Okay, Patrick, you're ridiculously abusive...'

Oh no, I'm just soft tossing a few from in front of the mound in the bullpen right now.

'... I don't want you to think I concede you're right, since you're not.'

Suppose a group of Vikings had been on a voyage of rape and pillage and, having had their ship filled with booty, turned around and went home. But, on the way back, at this dinky little hamlet they'd ignored before, they see that the inhabitants have hung up a banner reading, 'Vikings are nothing but big stupid idiots.'

How do you think that would have played out?

'TM implies Novak's other administration source beside Rove told Novak Plame suggested, not authorized, Wilson's trip. I say that requires believing Novak's version of his interaction with Harlow...'

No, just the plain English sentence he wrote in his July 14, 2003 column.

'...I then laid out the alternative scenario where Novak publishes "suggested" on the 14th of July not because of what his first source told him but because of what Harlow told him. Now you tell me what I'm misunderstanding.'

Occam's Razor.

'Or confess your own.'

That I should have simply dropped a Daisy Cutter on you in the earlier post.

'I will in fact read all of Wilson's book myself...'

After you finish posting several thousand words talking about it?

'...I was just hoping that those who were making the accusations could provide the evidence for discussion.'

What did you think referencing his own book was, if not evidence?

'On Kristof's phrasing, here's what I had in mind. Aside from the fact that "behest" can also mean "bidding" -- which is less strong...'

Same dictionary; bidding, n. a command, an invitation, a summons.

'...less obligatory than command, injunction etc...'

The question is one of the CONNECTION between Wilson and Cheney, not if he was obliged to accept the mission.

'...what Kristof does is condense a several step process, probably explained to him by Wilson...'

No kidding.

'....The CIA comes up with Wilson as the specific person to go to Niger, hence to look into the reports, hence to fulfill the injunction from Cheney's office. Would I have written it that way? No. I have no brief for Kristof. Was Kristof being deliberately misleading? I doubt it.'

He was reporting what Joe and Valerie told him.

'But let's say I'm a blithering idiot...'

We could simply let you continue talking.

' as you suggest'

More like 'authorize'.

'...and Kristof was crystal clear, and incorrect... Guess what? When he published in his own name, Joe Wilson set the record straight on that one.'

By writing on July 6, 2003:

'The vice-president asked a serious question. I was asked to help formulate the answer. I did so, and have every confidence that the answer I provided...'

And, then, on Sept. 14, 2003 in the San Jose Mercury News:

'At the request of the Administration I traveled to the West African nation of Niger in February 2002...'

Which is exactly what he told Kristoff.

'And then the actual point of the sentence you take me to task for stands. Wilson is not to blame for what Kristof wrote.'

Wilson is absolutely to blame for what Kristoff wrote, because Kristoff wrote up Wilson's delusions of grandeur as related by Joe Wilson.

[Joe Mealyus]

Jeff (1): "I don't think [the disagreement over what Novak said to Harlow] is [trivial], since the story that Plame authorized Wilson's trip appears to be a major, false talking point in the twin attacks launched from the White House against Wilson and the CIA."

Jeff (2): "So this one is provisional - but it seems to me there is a pretty significant body of evidence so far that Novak was involved in a deliberate effort to circulate a known falsehood - that Plame, not the Vice President, had authorized Wilson's trip."

If Novak had written on July 3, 2003 that "Plame authorized Wilson's trip," or anything that could be construed as such, your point would make perfect sense. But since he didn't, I'm simply perplexed as to what your possible point might be. Novak is guilty of colloboration in the plot to spread a "false talking point" or "known falsehood" even though he didn't put it into his column?

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

'...I think Wilson is very clear that he is talking about what should have and ordinarily would have happened...So he is very clearly not making a claim about what he knows did happen.'

Joe Wilson in his own words (7-6-03):

'...in United States government archives confirming my mission....a CIA report summing up my trip, and a specific answer from the agency to the office of the vice president (this may have been delivered orally)....

'...I have every confidence that the answer I provided was circulated to the appropriate officials within our government.'

Back to Jeff:

'A really interesting question, for me, to which I don't think we have an answer, is: did the Vice President's office receive a response to its question that included information about WIlson's trip? Tenet's statement of July 11 2003 and the SSCI certainly seek to leave the impression...'

By flatly denying that Cheney was informed of Wilson's trip.

'...that the report generated by Wilson's trip was not seen by anyone high up in the administration, but I don't think they actually assert that.'

'I don't think', ought to be your tag line.

'(Uh oh, here comes Patrick R. Sullivan to call me a blithering idiot who can't read English, just when I think I'm being a pretty careful reader and a thoughtful analyst of this whole nest of issues. Or maybe not.)'

By being ignorant of the facts, by ignoring Occam's Razor, by employing circular reasoning.

' So it would be interesting to have someone in the Vice President's office authoritatively answer the question, Did the VP or anyone in his office ever see, hear about, or otherwise access the report...'

From Meet the Press, Sept 14, 2003:

---------quote---------
MR. RUSSERT: Now, Ambassador Joe Wilson...says he came back from Niger and said that.... Were you briefed on his findings in February, March of 2002?

VICE PRES. CHENEY: No. I don’t know Joe Wilson. I’ve never met Joe Wilson. ....And Joe Wilson—I don’t who sent Joe Wilson. He never submitted a report that I ever saw when he came back.
----------endquote---------

'This should happen in the name of openness, transparency and the public's right to know about our democratic government.'

Think of me as your civics teacher.

[Jeff]

There's a lot to address, but for the moment, going from the bottom. Patrick R. Sullivan - Cheney speaks the truth and does not answer the question. He says, "He never submitted a report that I ever saw when he came back." We know that Wilson himself never submitted a report. A report was generated by others after debriefing him on the day of his return from Niger (or maybe it was the day after). Hence the care of my initial formulation, including the part after the ellipses that you quote from me. So try again on that one.

[Joe Mealyus]

Jeff (1): "This is an example of something I find a little frustrating here, which I may also participate in. People go after this point or that point, without keeping track of the points that their adversaries get right, which is not important in itself but is important for keeping track of the main lines of interpretation of argument over Plame et al."

Jeff (2): "It is of course true that Cheney did not authorize Wilson's trip, and I don't believe Wilson ever claimed that he did. In his op-ed he laid out the chain of events that led to his trip, best as he understood them, with great precision and clarity."

JustOneMinute I believe has made some essential points about Wilson's claims that Jeff has apparently not kept track of, here:
http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2005/07/josh_marshall_n.html

[boris]

It does no good to provide facts to consipracy nuts. For them nothing is as it appears so the apparant truth of any fact is just evidence of it's falshood.

[SteveMG]

I find Bill Harlow's half-hearted attempts to convince Novak not to mention Valerie Plame puzzling. Very puzzling.

Novak's been in Washington a million years; he's probably had thousands of discussions with the CIA over the use of classified intelligence or covert agents. He knows the secret words, so to speak, from the CIA to indicate when something needs to be redacted.

Harlow, too, I'm sure, knows the moves in this kabuki dance. And yet from his and Novak's own account, Harlow never emphatically warned Novak not to mention Plame AT ALL. He just warned Novak not to use her name.

This is just a bizarre case.

Boy, Allen Drury could have really weaved an interesting book out of this affair. 'Course, who reads novels anymore?

SMG

[AlanDownunder]

It starts when Cheney says "I didn't authorize it - make that clear". Then the admin duly jumps to it to negate what Wilson didn't allege.

[kim]

Armando's 'false smear'.
=======================

[Jeff]

MJW - From Wilson's op-ed of July 6 2003:

In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney's office had questions about a particular intelligence report. While I never saw the report, I was told that it referred to a memorandum of agreement that documented the sale of uranium yellowcake — a form of lightly processed ore — by Niger to Iraq in the late 1990's. The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president's office.

After consulting with the State Department's African Affairs Bureau (and through it with Barbro Owens-Kirkpatrick, the United States ambassador to Niger), I agreed to make the trip.

And more (emphasis added):

Though I did not file a written report, there should be at least four documents in United States government archives confirming my mission. The documents should include the ambassador's report of my debriefing in Niamey, a separate report written by the embassy staff, a C.I.A. report summing up my trip, and a specific answer from the agency to the office of the vice president (this may have been delivered orally). While I have not seen any of these reports, I have spent enough time in government to know that this is standard operating procedure.

So Wilson did not claim that Cheney asked him directly. One thing I realized. You and others may be calling into question the claim that Wilson's trip originated with the Vice President's office. It did, and that is in fact confirmed by the facts presented in the SSCI report -- although the report does toss in the claim that the trip had multiple questions from multiple places (State and DoD, I think) at its origins as well -- although since the CIA's participation seems to have been triggered on the very day that Cheney asked his briefer the fateful question(s) about Niger-Iraq-uranium, the role of State and DoD seems rather more marginal, and the VP's office's role rather closer to exclusive, than the aggressive Senators wanted to make out. My sense is that when right wingers go after Wilson on this, they are trying to blur together two targets: whether Cheney personally asked Wilson -- he didn't -- and whether Cheney (or his office) initiated the process that led to Wilson's trip (he/they did).

This should also serve as a response to Patrick R. Sullivan's previous post on Wilson, which also makes misleading use of ellipses in its citation of Wilson's op-ed. I challenge you, Patrick, to cite where in Tenet's statement or the SSCI report it is flatly denied that Cheney was informed of Wilson's trip. And read more carefully before you cite, this time. I can already tell you it won't work to cite Tenet's line that the CIA did not brief the report to the President or the Vice President, because that, again, does not fully answer the question -- having the report briefed to Cheney was only one way in which he or his office may have become informed of it. Note that Tenet's statement also says that the report received normal and wide distribution. Is it hard to imagine that that normal and wide distribution included Cheney's office, or someone who told Cheney's office about it? I can't recall everything relevant in the SSCI report, so maybe you'll have a better time there. But again, try to be precise. Occam's razor, non-circular reasoning, knowledge of facts and all. I'm not going to reply to your other post, because while it has a couple of funny lines, there's nothing substantive in there not already covered by TM's earlier response. My point is not, of course, that I know for sure that Novak was, in effect, working with White House officials, only that what I'm claiming is coherent (which you've denied).

So Joe Mealyus, yeah, that is the idea, that perhaps Novak was in on the White House's effort to spread disinformation about Wilson. Would that really be so shocking? And for what it's worth, check out Murray Waas' reporting on related matters . (Also at the American Prospect.) And without trying to get into Novak's mind, of course, nor denying ambiguity, this all fits with reading Novak telling Wilson's friend on the street, as cited by TM above, that "She sent him." And from what TM cites from Wilson's book about Wilson's account of his wife's role, he denies any substantive involvement in the decision, and acknowledges explicitly that she played some role in the overall thing. She conveyed a request to Wilson. From what I can tell, all we have of more substantive involvement is the SSCI report saying one CIA official recalls that she "offered up" his name. When? How so? Did she list off five people who the CIA could send, including her husband? Did she only offer up his name? Did someone say, "Hey, your husband, what's his name, he's the perfect candidate for the job, let's get him. Wait a sec, Valerie, what's his name again?" "Joseph Wilson." It would be great to know more -- and I don't see why the SSCI can't or couldn't have been more forthcoming (and please don't start in, "Sources and methods! Compromised! We can't have anyone knowing that there are five people an individual at the CIA thought were perfectly qualified for a trip to Niger to check on discounted reports of Iraq's efforts there!") Plus the SSCI cites a memo she wrote, which was apparently at the request of her superior, a fact unacknowledged by the SSCI report.

Anyway, whatever Wilson's cockiness or sensitivity about nepotism, and even if he was inaccurate or misleading after the fact about how substantive his wife's role was, SO WHAT? And more specifically, so what between May 2003 and July 14 or so, 2003? Go further: say we can settle it outright that she nepotistically suggested Wilson for the trip. SO WHAT? How on earth does that justify Novak outing Plame as an operative? Or more generally, why is that relevant to the twin attacks on Wilson and the CIA carried out by Rove et al? If this was all about setting the record straight, I fail to see how Plame's role is relevant. (Ah, but it all starts to make sense if the idea was to push the idea that not Cheney but Plame was at the origin of Wilson's trip. Authorized, set up, arranged by Plame -- thereby clearing Cheney from his role in the causal chain that led to Wilson's trip.) If it was pushback against the CIA, why not just say, This was the CIA's doing, not ours, and everybody knows the CIA was at odds with the VP's office (only, it turns out that the CIA, or those parts at odds with his office, was closer to the truth than the VP's wishes). Novak could have said to Wilson's friend, "Wilson's an asshole. The CIA sent him."

[Seven Machos]

This conversation is going nowhere.

[kim]

It's turning blue in the typeface.
===================================

[boris]

LOL

It's like one of the old Star Trek episodes where Kirk makes the artificial computer brains go bonkers.

[Jeff]

My blue bad. Sorry about that, and thanks Seven Machos for fixing it so quickly.