Damned If You Do...

Josh Marshall is puzzled, and seems to be working himself and the left blogosphere towards outrage.  Why?  Well, Bush's team may have actually shown some leadership in responding to Katrina, and the press ignored it.

Does that seem confusing?  Sorry - here we go.

Dan Froomkin of the WaPo noted an article in a Mississippi paper detailing how Dick Cheney's office and the Department of Energy re-directed the priorities of a utility company in Ole Miss:

Shortly after Hurricane Katrina roared through South Mississippi knocking out electricity and communication systems, the White House ordered power restored to a pipeline that sends fuel to the Northeast.

That order - to restart two power substations in Collins that serve Colonial Pipeline Co. - delayed efforts by at least 24 hours to restore power to two rural hospitals and a number of water systems in the Pine Belt.

Let's wave in some lefty bloggers (1, 2) decrying the choice of oil over people, and move on to Dr. Marshall's questions:

Is this how the national disaster response system works? Calls go out from the Vice President's office to local electric power utility operators giving national security directives on which power lines to get running first? Aren't things a bit more systematized than that?

My goodness, the White House bestirred itself, deviated from the script, and provided leadership.  That would never happen under Bill Clinton!

And having done enough research to satisfy himself that this pipeline is a big deal, here is his next source of puzzlement:

But why haven't we heard more about this? At a minimum this seems like an important part of the story of what happened two weeks ago. But to the best of my knowledge it's gone wholly unremarked in the major national dailies.

Gee, did the press ignore a story about some successful White House leadership?  No, I can't figure it out either.  But it is not because Bush did not mention it - here are his remarks from Sept 1, reprinted in the Times, mentioning the Colonial Pipeline by name.

We're also working with energy companies to repair and reactivate major refineries and pipelines.  The good folks must understand that major refineries have been shut down, which means it's going to be hard to get gasoline to some markets.  We're working to help these pipelines get up and running.  Pipelines carry refined product.

And so we're working with the majors -- major oil companies to get the -- with Colonial Pipeline so they can carry the products of the major oil companies, the refined products.  Right now, the Colonial Pipeline, which is a major pipeline serving the East Coast, is back in operation, but only at 50 percent capacity.  We anticipate that as the days go by, more and more of that capacity will be restored.  Other major pipelines are coming back online.  But as I said, we're going to have a temporary disruption of gasoline product.

The Times and the WaPo reported at the time that the Colonial pipeline would be a key to preventing gasoline shortages.  From the WaPo, Sept 1:

No matter how much crude oil can be brought on shore, the real problem lies with refining it into gasoline and shipping it to filling stations, said Fadel Gheit, an oil and gas analyst at Oppenheimer & Co.

The two main gasoline pipelines from the Gulf to the East Coast -- Plantation, which terminates near Reagan National Airport, and Colonial, which ends in New Jersey -- remain mostly idle, as they await electricity to run pumps.

...Steve Baker, a spokesman for the Colonial Pipeline Co., said diesel generators are being trucked to the region and should have that line running by the weekend.

No, I don't know why the WaPo missed the involvement of the power companies, but the fog of war would be the obvious explanation.

Finally, for folks worried about the rural hospital (25 beds) that was delayed for 24 hours in having its power restored - it was powered up on Sept 4 (rather than, I guess, Sept 3).  Presumably, it had been running on generators before that.  And here is the outraged, table-pounding quote pried out of the hospital staff by the Hattiesburg American:

Mindy Osborn, emergency room coordinator at Stone County Hospital, said the power was not restored until six days after the storm on Sept. 4. She didn't have the number of patients who were hospitalized during the week after the storm.

"Oh, yes, 24 hours earlier would have been a help," Osborn said.

We will see whether this new attack meme catches on - it seems too perfect for the Kossites to pass up.  Meanwhile, I blame Bush.

UPDATE:  Josh Marshall adds that the Colonial Pipeline probably moved military grade jet fuel, but continues to be puzzled by "the highly irregular manner in which the orders apparently went out."

I am not quite sure what "regular" would look like in this scenario.  But suppose there is an intepid official at the Dept of Energy whose task is to ensure that the utility works on the DoE project (power to the pipeline, not power to the people) ASAP.

This official might have a legitimate concern that some heroic local politician (Governor, Senator, mayor, whatever) might call the utility and redirect their efforts in a bold attempt to "cut the red tape" and serve the good people of the great state of Mississippi.

Fair enough - local politicos may not do a great job of balancing the interests of their constituents with the need of the Northeast for gasoline.

But since this hypothetical DoE official is also an adept bureaucratic infighter, he short-circuits their attempted short-circuiting by getting Cheney's office to intervene.  Irregular?  Maybe.  Effective?  Apparently.

Or maybe Cheny and his cronies were just sitting around trading the crude/product spreads on NYMEX.

Comments

[kim]

Gasoline was among the immediate relief supplies from Europe. It was probably good strategy to facilitate movement of such an easily usable source of energy.
======================================

[TexasToast]

Well, Bush's team may have actually shown some leadership in responding to Katrina, and the press ignored it.

So Tom, are you saying that the Bush team has not been showing leadership to this point? ;) Wow!

Actually, I would say that Bush's actually taking some responsibility is a good first step. Lets see if that's for real or just lip service. I'm hopeful.

[kim]

I note that it was mobile diesel generators used for relief of the pipeline.

Did not hospitals have emergency generators? Which usually use diesel or gasoline.
===================================================

[kim]

Actually, this seems like a masterful stroke of leadership. Had the pipeline flow not been restored, repercussions would have flowed downstream and energy shortages on the East Coast would have compounded Katrina's damage. This was a critically good maneuver. Cheney '08.
==================================================

[cathyf]

Ok, jerkweed brought this up in the previous thread, and this was his response to Syl when she said that this sounded like the WH was taking care of business:

No Syl-I'm raising it in the context of "proving" the feds didnt know about the convention center till Thursday is ok b/c it wasn't reported by the MSM till Thursday.

Is the MSM where the federal govt. gets their information? That's the outrageous bullshit claim.

When did the "media" report the Collins substations were out???

How was Cheney's office so proactive about this in the absence of MSM reports? How could he possibly know???

So maybe somebody else can explain to me what jerkweed was getting at... Is he really claiming that because communications did not break down around Hattiesburg, Mississippi, therefore all of the witnesses who have asserted that communications broke down in New Orleans were lying? A VLRCUDAC (Vast Left Right Center Up Down Around Conspiracy) of journalists, disaster victims, police officers, local officials, etc. all invented this story to hide the "fact" that bushitler (or at least cheney) knew the first, middle and last names, social security numbers, show sizes, and favorite desserts of each and every victim who was in the convention center. And the WH knew this information starting on Monday morning. And they wanted the poor black people in the convention center to suffer for days so they kept it a national secret until Thursday.

Or maybe he was being sarcastic and I'm just dense...

cathy :-)

[kim]

It's just grasping at strawmen.
================================

[millco88]

Two possible explanations for the lack of coverage -- bias or competence. Everyone always brings up bias, but competence, per se, never gets much coverage. If things go as they're supposed so, i.e., according to plan, then there are no heart-rending moments, no screams for help, etc. Competence is the media's worst enemy. If everyone were competent, there would be no tragedy, therefore no story.

[Syl]

cathyf

Actually, that was jerkweed's first read on the whole matter. He later changed his mind.

[Syl]

TT

"Actually, I would say that Bush's actually taking some responsibility is a good first step. Lets see if that's for real or just lip service."

I think you should study what Bush actually said:

"Katrina exposed serious problems in our response capability at all levels of government, and to the extent that the federal government didn't fully do its job right, I take responsibility."

Note those words carefully. The usual suspects are claiming Bush is taking responsbility for everything that may have gone wrong.

Nope. And, to me, it's more of a threat to the locals to stand up and be counted and take responsbility for their ends. The silence from them is deafening.

[Cecil Turner]

"Or maybe he was being sarcastic . . . "

Actually, I think that was it. His point appeared to be that contrary to various claims, the WH was well ahead of the media information curve. (However, I have a tendency to overanalyze, and may be doing that here.)

[Etienne]

I doubt anyone on the left OR right is surprised at WH efficiency in restoring power to oil pipelines. No one thinks the entire staff is stupid, nor that they have plenty of professional skill in dealing with the oil industry. Hell, most of them came from the oil industry. It's only Bush that is a known imbecile, a kind of Howdy Doody dummy for the Dick Cheney puppet meister...him and the prep school buddies appointed to pretend to run vital agencies.

This isn't generating much outrage on the left. Sorry, fellas.

[Syl]

Regarding the pipeline thing, the fact it was handled so quickly I'm sure is due to the extensive planning undertaken in anticipation of a possible terrorist attack.

It seems the response was excellent.

Which brings up the comparison between response to Katrina and response to a terrorist attack on the levees.

What would have been different?

Warning. There would have been no advance warning. No prior evacuations would have occurred at all. Everybody would still be in the city.

Response factors. The Red Cross, Salvation Army, et al, would not have pre-positioned resources just outside the city. Thus it would have taken even longer to get anything in.

Evacuation. The buses would still be underwater.

Police. Their communications might still have gone out. I think it was the flooding that burst the natural gas line.

National Guard. Those who happened to be in the city would have had their equipment possibly destroyed. Those outside the city and brought in wouldn't have as difficult a time getting to NOLA. The roads wouldn't be covered with debris. Not sure about nearby bridges.

Active duty military. Since much of it was brought in by ship, it would have taken them longer to arrive because the ships were not already on their way to the area. But others could have been brought in by plane because the airport wasn't under water (I don't think...I think it was hurricane damage that delayed the airport from re-opening right away.)

1000 guys from the 82nd Airborne could be there in 18-24 hours. Would still need to work it out with Blanco if the guys would be faced with law enforcement issues because order had broken down.

Communications. Mostly would probably still be okay because towers hadn't been destroyed by a hurricane. Some areas would still have power.

There wouldn't be damage in the rest of the state as well as in MS and AL for FEMA to handle. They would only have to concentrate on NOLA.

So, basically, the disaster area would be smaller, but many many more people would be dead or in danger. And relief in some cases would be slower, in others faster.

I think, when all is said and done, it probably was better we had a hurricane than a terrorist attack because of the advance warning.

[TexasToast]

Syl

I didn't miss the weasel-word possibilities in GWB's mea culpa. That’s why I'm just "hopeful", not confident, that we will see some actual leadership, beginning with tonight's speech. Still, we have a Bush mea culpa and Tom Delay telling us there is no more "fat" to trim in the federal budget. If we cant spend less, and we like balanced budgets, ......... ???????

Amazing. Simply amazing.

[Syl]

Etienne

You depend on oil. Oil depends on the oil industry. The oil industry depends on access to the world's oil.

Who gives a flying f*** who in the government used to work in the oil industry or might work in it after leaving the government. Politicos move back and forth between government and SEVERAL industries.

There's a reason artists and musicians don't make good politicos. They have no business and management experience. Neither do most academics. Lawyers? Well they norn in everywhere.

[Syl]

TT

I wouldn't call them 'weasel' words. I'd call them telling it like it is. He's not going to accept responsibility for Blanco's screw ups.

As for Delay? I have the same reaction as you.

[Jerkweed]

Cecil Turner is the only smart one of the right wing among you. And even he aint no Einstein

Of course I was being sarcastic.

The Administration receives and acts on the information it gives a damn about.

Immediately.

[Seven Machos]

Edy -- If W. is so dumb, and you are so smart, how come you are reduced to posting here while he is the leader of the free world?

Sounds to me like you must be incredibly lazy. How else to explain your ineptitude when you have been graced with such ability?

Also, and again, why would you want someone so stupid to try to lead others? Shouldn't you be happy every time power is ceded to states and agencies to solver problems, and decisions are not made directly by the president?

I look forward to your genius-filled response.

[Harry Arthur]

Tom Delay telling us there is no more "fat" to trim in the federal budget. These republicans in congress will turn me to "the dark side" (I'll let the reader figure out what that means) yet. "No more fat"? Puhlease! How about say something like half the bloated, pork filled highway bill? TT, I think you mentioned bridges to nowhere. Why don't we buy each of the inhabitants of that little island either a Lear jet or a 120 foot yacht, it would be cheaper. What a bunch of malarky.

I may just vote libertarian next time. These guys have run congress for exactly 11 years and that's all it's taken to turn them into the guys they replaced?

Did he really say something that brilliant?

[Etienne]

SevenTesticles, it might have something to do with being born with blue blood to a family of entitled elitists who made their first fortune profiteering with the Nazis...just might. The vacuousness of his mind and the barrenness of his character were just the genetic accidents that made him, and not Jeb, the ideal vehicle once the think tanks opened their sewers.

[kim]

Ah, deep, stupid, class envy.

And so ill-informed.
===================================================

[Syl]

Etienne

Do you think your words have any meaning? They've been used by BDS sufferers for years now. You're so predictable in your attitude towards Bush that you could be a bot. Why don't you come up with something original?

[Cecil Turner]

"Actually, I would say that Bush's actually taking some responsibility is a good first step."

Perhaps a second step, since "firing" Brown. Which I imagine wasn't a particularly difficult task:

W: "Brownie, I'm sorry, but you've become a distraction. You'll have to go."
B: "Thank God. This was a sucky job before Katrina. When can I go home?"
W: "Well, we'd like to ease you out. You know, relieve you of specific Katrina duties, then . . ."
B: "Okay, boss. But if it takes longer than a week to get fired, I'm gonna quit. I've already got the resignation letter drafted. Wanna see it?"
W: "Umm, no, that won't be necessary . . ."

And personally, I'm less than impressed by calls for leadership, experience, and all that other touchy-feely stuff that has little impact on the affected zone. If we were actually trying to do something effective, I'd recommend implementing programs like:

• "Evacuation bids" where the Mayor, Governor, and President submit sealed recommendations on when to order a mandatory evacuation (the earliest one wins)
• Require all ACE levee projects to be signed off by a civil engineer living in the affected flood zone
• Forbid all politicians from visiting disaster areas
• Give control of the national guard troops in the area to the commander of whichever organization ponies up the most troops.

I'm sure we could think of more . . .

"And even he aint no Einstein"

Hey, I resemble that part of your remark.

[cathyf]

Syl, I think your analysis of "what if" for a terrorist attack on the levees was right on. One small extension, though:

What would have been different?

Warning. There would have been no advance warning. No prior evacuations would have occurred at all. Everybody would still be in the city.

This is actually a mixed bag. Of course in the case of a terrorist attack there would be five times more people in a taken-by-surprise city, but I think you are underestimating the fact that while the hurricane had plenty of warning, the levee breech floodwaters came as a complete surprise to many of those 100,000 people who didn't evacuate. Since the hurricane wiped out power many of those people wouldn't have had access to news, and it seems to have taken a good 12 hours for people to convert from "Whew we dodged a bullet!" mode to "Oh, s***! The hurricane was just the warm-up!" mode. Some probably drowned in their beds from the rising waters on Monday night, having no clue that they needed to do anything but wait for reconstruction aid.

On the other hand, if it were a bright sunny day and there were a big KABOOM they would have all of the undamaged information and communication infrastructure there to tell people exactly what was happening. And as we saw, water takes time to flow through a levee breech. Also people would have a lot more evacuation options without a hurricane. For example they could have camped outside in parks and playgrounds in the unflooded 20% of the city, while obviously in 140mph winds they'd just be dead if they tried that. Experts could have accurately predicted where it would or would not flood, and then with all of the intact communication infrastructure, they could have told people where to evacuate to. I'm betting that there would have been many places to go within walking distance of a pretty big fraction of the population.

cathy :-)

[cathyf]

jerkweed:

The Administration receives and acts on the information it gives a damn about.

Wow. And here I thought that nothing could astonish me more than Tom Delay and "no fat in the federal budget." You really do believe that the local New Orleans cops who saw what was going on at the convention center didn't tell their colleagues, or supervisors, or any city, state or federal officials, because of the super-powerful mind-control beams eminating from the white house which prevent anyone from discussing subjects that the Administration doesn't give a damn about. It had nothing to do with the cops not having working radios because the city didn't buy equipment that works in floods.

jerkweed disaster preparedness list:
1) Have a stainless-steel colander for every man, woman and child within 250 miles of the disaster so that they can shield out the evil white house mind-control beams.

(And people made fun of Tom Ridge's duct tape...)

cathy :-)

[Po Boy]

CT-the problem with early evacuation-say 72+ hours-is that hurricanes can turn radically in that time.

Before Katerina-you had people facing pressure like this- it's a Monday-there's a 25% chance a cat 4 hurricane may hit Friday. Do you evacuate? What if your boss says fine-leave but dont come back?

You leave and then the hurricane veers-the weather stays sunny and the office never closed for one minute. You endured traffic jams, hotel costs, and lost a weeks pay-and if the boss fires you-you're out the job.

This was the exact scenario that played out for lots of New Orleanians last year when Ivan turned at the last second and defied the 48 hour out forecast.

Katerina will definitely change things-but this was the mindset of lots in New Orleans pre-Katerina. Remember people didnt even come to the Superdome until about 6 to 8 hours before the first winds were felt in the city.

And then even Katerina veered from even the 10 hour out forecast and turned to the east just enough to wipe out parts of eastern Mississippi that thought they were relatively safe on Sunday night.

Hurricanes overall suck is what it comes down to.

[TexasToast]

OT

Here ya go, Harry.

">http://www.washtimes.com/national/20050914-120153-3878r.htm"> Delay’s Victory .

[Jerkweed]

Cathyf-you are quite the jackass aren't you.

Everybody knew 100,000 people didnt leave the city. That was known before the storm hit.

After the storm hit-when did the Administration first inquire as the whereabouts of those 100,000 people?
Was an aide doing it while Bush was playing guitar?

We know they were inquiring about those substations even before the wind stopped blowing. The cnclusion is obvious: substations-we care. 100,000 Americans-after this song.

And what's the plan in the event of a terrorist attack, say in Sacramento, that takes out the mayor and governors office? Like they wont have a chance to prove their super-competence cause they're dead.

Is it really 72-96 hours before the feds can get a handle on things? Maybe you're satisfied with that crap, but I deserve a little better.

[kim]

Maybe it'll get changed, but 72-96 hours response was what was planned and budgetted for.
==================================================

[Cecil Turner]

"You leave and then the hurricane veers-the weather stays sunny and the office never closed for one minute. You endured traffic jams, hotel costs, and lost a weeks pay-and if the boss fires you-you're out the job."

Yep, you need the cover of somebody in charge telling you it's mandatory. And of course you've hit the nail on the head here as to why the Mayor (who is going to be held responsible for crying "wolf" if Katrina veers at the last minute) waited until the last minute instead of calling it at 72 hours. But let's face it, that's exactly what the situation required, and what the plan calls for. Either it's important enough to make unnecessary evacuations once in a while, or a few hundred [or thousand] dead bodies are acceptable when the big one hits. Take your pick.

"After the storm hit-when did the Administration first inquire as the whereabouts of those 100,000 people?"

Why should they have to inquire? Why bother to plan at all, if we're not going to follow it? And the 72-96 hour bit is a reasonable time frame for federal response, and clearly stated in their own plan:

"the federal plan advises state and local emergency managers not to expect federal aid for 72 to 96 hours, and base their own preparedness efforts on the need to be self-sufficient for at least that period."

[Jerkweed]

What if the state and local emergency managers are dead?

[kim]

Then it's gonna take 72-96 hours to get the federal response in. You've pointed out that the local authorities might just as well have been dead this time.
==================================================

[Po Boy]

Well Katerina has no doubt changed all that for good, but don't forget:

If the levees hadn't broke New Orleans would be fine again this time. They weren't topped-they broke.

Notice those houses are flooded, not blown away.

But no more about New Orleans from me-it's far from being the most devastated area believe me.

[Jerkweed]

You're right Kim.

Unbelievably, the actual plan nowadays is to leave an attacked city on its own for 72-96 hours.

That is just not acceptable.

[Jay Dee]

Syl, do you flatter yourself that there is an iota of originality in any of your Government Issued Conservative Opinions? Even the constant self flattery comes right off the assembly line.

And kim, I admire the way you guys have managed to turn the legitimate issue of classism in our society into a plus for your side - in your minds, of course. I know George Orwell was not desiring to create the circuitous logic systems that sustain modern American "conservatism", but damn! if he wasn't nostradamic. Class envy? How bizarre to imagine wanting to be a Bush! Although I do envy anyone who gets to live fulltime in Maine, I'd much prefer to be part of a lobsterman's family than the grandson of the man who helped build Hitler's war machine.

I'm also impressed at how this oilmen's automatic response to protect the pipelines is now "masterful leadership" that shows they were fully prepared for the only aspect of a terrorist attack that might have been predicted! The talent of a Bush lover to replace those wheels in those ruts can never be underestimated.

[kim]

So true. That last minute turn and weakening was miraculous. Things could be worse.
===================================================

[Jerkweed]

Yep. Like you could be my ex-wife.

[kim]

You may note, JW, that some elements of the federal response were there a lot sooner, for instance the Coast Guard. I've little doubt that better plans will be made in the future.

JD, what really galls you and the left is that Bush is a product of a meritocracy. What a marvelous executive he's turned out to be.
============================================

[kim]

You wouldn't have me for an ex-wife if you took 72-96 hours to come.
===============================================

[Seven Machos]

Do Jay and Edy really think that Kennedys and Roosevelts and Heinzes didn't do business with Germans between the wars? You aren't really that naive, are you?

Also, and again, if Bush is so dumb and has nothing to say, how did he get elected? I mean, how come you don't run? Are you really, really ugly? Do you have less than the nothing you accuse Bush of saying to say? If Bush can be a vehicle for the right, why can you not be a vehicle for the left? Again, you must be incredibly lazy. What else can a person conclude?

Also, Edy: you really do seem to have a problem with Fox News and various "think tanks" expressing their opinions. It appears this is solely because their opinions differ from yours. I don't have a problem with CNNNYTWPMSNBCCBSABC, or The Nation, or The New Republic expressing their opinions. I can only conclude that you are also a not-so-closet facist, and, in fact, exactly what you accuse those you hate of being.

[The Unbeliever]

What if the state and local emergency managers are dead?

If that happens from a hurricane, then somebody really screwed up their disaster plans.

But it raises an interesting point. What if we have a worst-case scenario, where a major city gets nuked in a terrorist attack? What if, instead of getting hit by Katrina, a terrorist drove up to the main levee and detonated a nuke, wiping out the levee, the mayor's office, central NOPD and NOFD command, and some nearby communications towers in the initial blast? Should we expect federal aid to get their before the 72-96 hour timeframe?

I would say yes--but even before the feds get there, the state should have effectively scrambled other resources to handle the situation. I'm sure the fed response would be quicker than 72 hours, since the infrastructure over 3 states had not been wiped out and the damage was ketp to a relatively small location. But the feds can't pre-position personnel and emergency supplies for this contingency near every metropolitan area that might be a target; in a worst case scenario, the state should still be prepared to deal with the crisis for 72 hours.

No one's expecting the fed to "leave the city alone" for 72 hours, but you should not be writing contingency plans expecting the fed to be on the ground before then.

[Jerkweed]

First of all I'm not a leftist. I'm a very fiscally conservative libertarian who voted for Bush the first time. Is it no longer possible to criticize the federal government since Republicans run it?

Second of all-that's a very funny comment.

[Seven Machos]

Jerkweed -- You often make a lot of sense to me.

[kim]

Sorry about slinging 'leftist' around. I, too, am dismayed at the fiscal recklessness displayed by this administration.

And I wrote in Scooby-Doo for President in November, 2000 and in 2004. He was the incumbent, after all. I know, 'cuz I saw him get elected in the Spring of 2000, on TV.
==================================================

[Jerkweed]

Unbeliever-one thing Katrina should show us-we are so not prepared for a nuke attack on a city it's pitiful.

So unprepared that preparing for the eventuality is a waste of time. What is the Greater New York evacuation plan? A sick joke is what it is if it even exists. All energy should therefore go to making sure it doesn't happen.

[Jerkweed]

Why thanks 7M.

Incidentally-don't think I'm criticizing Cheney for getting the substations up and running. That's some damn vital shit.

But don't give me grief because I expect the feds to be able to chew gum and walk at the same time.

[Syl]

Jerkweed

Why do you insist on equating two DIFFERENT things? One being people in NO and the other being a pipeline down?

Do you really think the power crews that were moved to the pipeline were headed to NO to feed 100,000 people instead?

Different problems, different lines of communication, different lines of command/control.

FEMA does not do pipelines.

[Seven Machos]

Jerkweed -- My view is that the states and the local governments need to develop plans and build their own stuff. It's not lie the money's not there to do it.

The fact of the matter is (contra the ridiculous column of Thomas Friedman very recently) our states do exist independently of each other. They get tons of money from the federal government and deal with foreign countries and very often with each other through the federal government. Despite years and years of federal growth, that remains the reality on the ground.

As a federalist, I think this is a good thing.

[Jerkweed]

7M-actually I agree-but the states have been turned into fat little spoiled rich kids by their freespending federal daddy. Just look at how Louisiana officials were waiting for their rescue allowance.

We need to repeal the 17th amendment. (Senators used to be elected by State legislatures-so they represented a states interest). That's the quickest way to restore the original federalism.

[Seven Machos]

I agree with that 100 percent. Term limits, too.

[Jerkweed]

Syl-yeah I know FEMA doesn't do pipelines.

But Cheney ain't FEMA.

After he got off the phone about the pipeline, he could have got on the phone about the status of the people who stayed in New Orleans.

Maybe he did, but I haven't seen the story.

In the end, at Cheney's level-they AREN'T two different things-pipelines and citizens are both our "interests".

[Jay Dee]

Bush is a product of a meritocracy

Oh, no, you didn't say this.

The meritocracy that says that anyone can be born into millions, be a mediocre student at the nation's finest prep schools yet still get the alumni backdoor into Yale, get their dishonorable military records scrubbed, their failed businesses bailed out, the crimes of their youthful "exuberance" expunged courtesy of JC...and still have a powerful political party bankroll them into office.

With that kind of meritocracy, indeed, we'd all be kings. In fact, King George is proof positive that the concept of meritocracy in America is a myth. He is the living embodiment of its opposite.

Jerkweed - strangely enough, you also make a lot of sense to me.

Seven machos, on the other hand, seems to be projecting a bit of a different kind of envy with that choice of screen name.

[kim]

You just can't believe that Bush made his own way through Harvard Business School, and is now chief executive of an efficient and effective administration.
==================================================

[Seven Machos]

Bush's grades were better than Gore's (who flunked out of both theology and law school) and Kerry's. Do you read the newspapers?

Also, no one has ever shown that Bush or anyone did anything to doctor, change, or expunge any of his military records. The same cannot be said for Dan Rather, who no longer has a job.

I got my little computer name from a cologne I saw for sale in a bodega. You are grasping at straws now. Why not focus your efforts on something constructive, Jay Diddy, like running for office? You have told us all that you are so much more intelligent than any Republican who could face you. You are obviously a master debater. What's the hold-up, Big Guy?

[Syl]

Jerkweed

re a nuke

"All energy should therefore go to making sure it doesn't happen."

Bingo!

"In the name of Iraqi people, I say to you, Mr. President, and to the glorious American people, thank you, thank you. Thank you, because you liberated us from the worst kind of dictatorship. Our people suffered too much from this worst kind of dictatorship...

We agree with Mr. President Bush that democracy is the solution to the problems
of the Middle East. Mr. President, you are a visionary, great statesman. We salute you. We are grateful to you. We will never forget what you have done for our people."

One fewer state sponsor of terrorism.

[Syl]

Jerkweek

"The meritocracy that says..."

The meritocracy of POKER. Bush was a champ. Combine poker with an MBA and you can't be beat.

As for Cheney? He gets a call on the red phone, or whatever, 'pipeline is down'. He contacts the power company and tells them to get on it NOW. And from that he's supposed to know what the situation in NOLA is? You're really stretching.

[Jay Dee]

and is now chief executive of an efficient and effective administration.

This proves that brain activity can indeed survive (minimally) in a total vacuum.

[Syl]

Jay Dee won't eat his brocoli. It's yukky.

[Seven Machos]

Jay Diddy -- Admit it. You have created a demonology that reality won't sustain. BUsh is really dumb but all the Kennedys and Al Gore and John Kerry -- who had worse grades but followed the same basic path to power and were born into elite positions -- they are in a different category. How can this be?

And, yet again, if you are so much better and brighter, why are you sitting on your ass posting on Tom Maguire's blog -- a great forum but, I think we all have to admit, a semi-obscure one?

[kim]

Bush is CEO of the world and adding stakeholder value daily.

And bankrupting opposing political poker players.
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[richard mcenroe]

Libertarian, leftist... only the buzzwords change.

Leftists held up levee improvement for decades with environmental complaints. A libertarian would hold it up until the gov paid him for an easement to move their equipment across his property.

[Crew v1.0]

Super-important politician Albert Gore Jr. did not "flunk out" of law school or divinity school. Let's be fair. He was instead a serial quitter. He quit divinity school without receiving a degree, and later on he quit law school in order to go to D.C. to "write the laws". Yes, he quit law school to run for a Congressional seat when the district that he considered his birthright suddenly opened up. (The incumbent chose not to run for re-election, or somesuch.) The presumptuousness of the latter anecdote is apparent to all, but is probably particularly irritating to anyone who has attended law school.

[Harry Arthur]

Thanks, TT, another superb argument for term limits.

[Steven J.]

SYL -

PROPOSED IRAQI CONSTITUTION
You can find the entire text here, courtesy of the AP. Here are some parts I found interesting:

Article (2):
1st -- Islam is the official religion of the state and is a basic source of legislation:
(a) No law can be passed that contradicts the undisputed rules of Islam.

[kim]

That little old piece of paper protects rights better than our own.
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[TexasToast]

Kim

The Soviet Union had a great constitution - on a piece of paper. The Iraqi piece of paper isn't going to protect much of anything in the absence of a society that accepts it as ligitimate - which is the obvious problem in Iraq.

[Syl]

I heard that both Steven J and TT are experts on Iraqi society and both have read the Iraq constitution in its entirety, and therefore their assertions should be taken very seriously.

Or not.

[cathyf]

We know they were inquiring about those substations even before the wind stopped blowing. The cnclusion is obvious: substations-we care. 100,000 Americans-after this song.

jerkweed's universe: After the hurricane blew through, a NO cop who was by the convention center called the police dispatcher on his perfectly functional radio in his perfectly functional dry car. He told the dispatcher that there were 25,000 people who had decided to take it upon themselves to go to the convention center, but that since it had not been prepared as a shelter they were in desperate straits. The dispatcher, on the perfectly functional radio, scolded the cop. She said that George Bush had not personally called her on the perfectly functioning phone lines to ask after the citizens of New Orleans, so he should just hush up and there would be no more giving status reports. Then later when the thousands of desperate people turned into a looting criminal mob because the cops didn't know that they needed to dispatch personnel there right away, the cops and the dispatchers and the police sargents and the lieutenants and captains and chief and mayor and fire department and everybody who owns a scanner got together in this vast conspiracy to hide the fact that they had working communications in order to cover up for the white house not calling the NO police dispatcher.

Everybody else's universe: New Orleans got hit by a cat 4 hurricane which knocked out power, and breeched levees causing floods, and the power failures and floods knocked out the police/fire radios. So that cops in various locations could not get information back to any central authority, could not share information, call for backup, or respond to backup needs of their colleagues. They did the best they could, but they decided that helping people who would otherwise be drowning in their attics was the most important thing, and used their extremely limited communications ability for that. From what I can tell, that would be either cell phones which they had no way to recharge and the signal was intermittent anyway, or just periodically hiking into the precinct station, exchanging info, and going back out. These guys were doing the best they could under extremely adverse circumstances. Circumstances caused by the policy decisions made by the police chief, mayor and city council when they chose not to upgrade communications to the latest and greatest equipment (satellite phones, for example). Circumstances which were way to late to change once the floodwaters were already rising. Many of these guys are true heros, and to whitewash away the real hurdles they overcame in order to make cheap shots at the white house or fema is to shit on their heroism. (But hey, most of those heros would be black, and when you are an American liberal, you can shit on blacks all you want and accuse everybody else of racism.)

cathy :-)

[Jerkweed]

Too much delusion in too dense a space to unpack there-but let's quit living in the past anyway.

Facing forward-it seems the Republicans have nothing but liberal ideas to address the problem now, i.e. throw money and government programs at it. Rumors are Bush will propose job training tonight!!! Good Lord Krishna almighty.

Time for true conservatives to put up or shut up ISTM. What's the proper conservative response to this crisis-one that won't "shit on blacks" as you say.

As a presumably non-black-shitter-uponer, I ask you CathyF.

[kim]

They'll have a referendum, purple fingers and all, on that Constitution soon, TT. We'll see if they believe in it.
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[Etienne]

Bush is CEO of the world and adding stakeholder value daily.

Oh, God, she's back to this already. Kim, you have a great future ahead of you as a MadTV character.

[kim]

Even your stake is increasing in value, Etienne. Don't you wish you could be as grateful for that as you are that Saddam is gone?
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[kim]

Surely you don't consider Annan CEO?

Look human society is organized. Any organization has executive functions. Who is directing more of those functions now than anyone else.

I'll give you a clue. Where do you first seek to place blame?
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[kim]

I find an analogy to British history. Bush, Bolton, and the US are acting as the parliamentarians, leading a coalition of the willing, while Annan and the UN play the part of the figurehead monarchy, supported, tolerated, even sometimes admired, but also commonly castigated, by those who pay the bills.

The reality of government, though, is by the PM and parliament.
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[Steven J.]

Cheney taking care of the gas pipeline is like Tommy Franks taking care of the Oil Ministry while entirely ignoring the Baghdad Museum.

[kim]

Energy is important. Art is important. Which has higher priority in war and catastrophe.
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[Frank IBC]

So, Stephen, could you tell us the ACTUAL number of items that were looted from the Baghdad museum?

[kim]

No, I'll cling to my meme, thanks.
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[kim]

Kerry's taking care of harbor facilities for the Vietnamese was like Kerry's taking care of their point of view about the war.

Wait a minute. What sense do you make of that?
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[kim]

It's PoliMath---the Quid Pro Quotient.
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