At What Point Do We Give Props To Hillary?

Hillary Clinton continues to stand tall in support of her war vote, and in defiance of the anti-war majority of her own party (and you know it is a majority because....? Psychic!).

"I take responsibility for my vote, and I, along with a majority of Americans, expect the president and his administration to take responsibility for the false assurances, faulty evidence and mismanagement of the war," the New York senator said in a lengthy letter to thousands of people who have written her about the war.

Hmmph.  If she would just kow-tow to the party line, al la John Kerry, and admit that she was duped and deceived, we would be delighted to mock her.

Instead, we have to move to Stop Hillary, Plan B - get behind her!  Yeah, that's it!  If righties start saying nice things about her, she will be alienated from the left forever.

OK, this is a bit risky - if Hillary is perceived as having cross-over appeal and bipartisan, centrist support, she may remain unstoppable.  But hey, she is already unstoppable; maybe righty support will provoke an ardent anti-war lefty out of the woodwork and into the fray.

We live in perilous times.

Here is her Oct 2002 speech in favor of the war resolution and her recent letter to constituents.

MORE:  If I were advising Hillary, I would tell her to stay the course - where is her upside in flip-flopping now?  Within two years (i.e., Nov 2007), as we approach crunch-time in Iowa and New Hampshire, one might reasonably hope that the way forward in Iraq has become clear, one way or another; presumably we will be well on our way to either victory or despair by then.

Comments

[Bill Lalor]

Sorry about the multiple trackbacks...
Bill L

[Mr. Pollski]

Are you joking when you say Hillary is not backing away from her vote? I don't call this support:

""If Congress had been asked [to authorize the war], based on what we know now, we never would have agreed," Clinton said, in an email sent to her supporters on Tuesday.

While saying she took full responsibility for her error, Clinton repeatedly insisted that she had been misled by "false" intelligence on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction presented by the Bush administration. "

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/11/29/195654.shtml

Hil is getting desperate and we all know why:

"Hillary Meter: Support Falls to 2005 Low

November 30, 2005--If Hillary Clinton runs for President in 2008, just 25% of Americans say they would definitely vote for her. That's down five points over the past two weeks. It's also the lowest level of support measured for the former First Lady in 2005."

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/2005/Hillary%20Meter.htm

[kim]

Bill knew too, to try to say all things to all people.

Hey Bill L, positively satiating.

You gorgeous throat, you.
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[BurkettHead]

Pont = Point? Punt? Pout?

[Probably "punt", but I change it. TM]

[JohnH]

I am fascinated by the carefully parsed language that HRC uses. She does not say "Bush lied." She says she was "misled" by "false intelligence." Well, if you accept that much of the CIA's intelligence was indeed mistaken, then we all were misled, including GWB. Sounds like Bush-bashing language but has exit clause. Similarly, she says that "based on what we know now, we would never have agreed..." Well, that's not saying much. She does not say that Bush manipulated the intelligence, so it is just arguing from hindsight. Maybe she has made stronger statements elsewhere, but the words quoted here are weak, trying to have it both ways. When campaign time comes, she will not get away with being so coy. Up to now she has not sat down and allowed any sharp questions.

[Karl Maher]

This letter seems to me to be directed at the Kos crowd. Judging by the polls there, she's lost the Left. Her letter admits voting for the war, but is mostly a resume submitted for the position of Chief Bush Basher.

No crossover appeal. Move along.

[Bob in Pacifica]

The anti-war majority in her party?

You mean in defiance of the anti-war majority in THIS COUNTRY.

[richard mcenroe]

I'd suggest you reread her statement. It is pure clintonia: "I stand by my actions even though I was lied to, cheated and abused so the consequences of my action are hardly my fault, not even a little bit, really..."

And remember, no matter what she says: if she's back, he's back.

Unless Hillary wants to be the first politician to break up a marriage for a run at the White House...

[A. Real Mann]

Newsflash for Bob: No one likes war. But terrorists and their supporters (who advocate cutting and running) are disliked even more. Shape up or ship out, scardy cat Bob!!!

[D. Webster]

should be "scaredy cat". but you get the point, don't you, Bob?

[noah]

Hill never registers above single digits in Kosland. But they will discard their idealism in a New York femtosecond in order to ragain the presidency.

[MayBee]

I don't know how Hillary can possibly use the standard anti-war Bush Lied template. Her husband, whom she presumably spent some time with, also declared Iraq had WMDs. He also kept sanctions going, used the military in no-fly zones, and bombed the country itself.
She can't backtrack too far or she backs herself right back to her husband's term in office.

So what if she loses the far, far left? The DailyKos crowd can't really claim to speak for anyone besides themselves, and I would argue that their polls vs. national polls say they don't. Anyone that feels Kos speaks for them can join the community, free of charge and with no travel necessary. Part of MoveOn and Kos's problems have been the mistaken notion that they are the tip of the iceberg.

As for the rest of the Dem's behavior lately, I would argue it is all an elaborate plot to make Hillary look like the reasonable one.

[Rick Ballard]

"Her husband, whom she presumably spent some time with"

Damn little evidence of that is available aside from the occasional use of heavy coverup makeup by Bill. I understand she has a good arm.

Hillary can't change her stripes and her little speech is just an example of how poorly she triangulates. Bill or Dick Morris could help her lie considerably better but I don't think she would take either's advice. Good for her, she needs to be true to whatever remains of her self respect. Even if it means renting an electron microscope to hunt it down.

[Dwilkers]

One thing is for sure, if Hilly does end up running its going to be one brutal campaign.

[cathyf]

Maybe if HRC runs she'll finally tell us whether she stole the $100,000 in 1978, or whether it was $100,000 in bribes.

cathy :-)

[sbw]

Hillary's letter isn't history, it's histrionics.

[Administration] assurances turned out to be empty ones, as the Administration refused repeated requests from the U.N. inspectors to finish their work.

The inspectors' work was finished the first time Hussein demonstrated his resolve to obstruct the work of the inspectors. Testimony from Hans Blix, head of the UN Inspection Team, corroborated the obstruction.

And the "evidence" of weapons of mass destruction and links to al Qaeda turned out to be false.

Wrong on both counts. While no mission-ready weapons were found, the intent to recreate them was found and links to terror have been verified.

Based on the information that we have today, Congress never would have...

Collapsing time is a cheap and deceptive rhetorical device.

And I challenged Secretary Rumsfeld more than once that he had no benchmarks to measure actual progress

Can the Senator identify reasonable benchmarks of her own for Rumsfeld to consider? No? Why not? Stability is hard to benchmark.

Iraq could become what it was not before the war: a haven for radical Islamist terrorists determined to attack America

Baghdad, the home of Abu Abbas, terrorist who killed Leon Klinghoffer, and city that critic Richard Clarke was certain that Osama Bin Laden would "boogie to" if President Clinton bombed Afghanistan, was already a home for radical Islamist terrorists.

As a New Yorker, I see Hillary's letter as political opportunism. And, sadly, Senator Hillary seems not the least embarrassed.

[Rick Ballard]

Dwilkers,

It will be a brutal campaign even if Santa Claus runs against Tinkerbelle.

Hillary's Hope is that the 32 million new potential voters added since Bill sold his last pardon will be sufficiently deficient so that past will not enter into present.

She ignores the willingness of about 40% of the electorate to write primers concerning those halcyon days of yor when the possibility of collectivising the health care system was a shining guiding light, needing only to be planned in secrecy and darkness in order to be realized.

[kim]

She's gonna regret that 100K someday.
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[clarice]

I was kinds hoping it'd be Kerry again.%^)

[Rick Ballard]

Clarice,

Maybe Tom will do a Christmas in Cambodia piece this holiday season.

[clarice]

That one always bring tears to my eyes--right along with It's A Wonderful Life.

I also like shots of that fop in the Midwest--you know, places like Lambert Field.

[kim]

Or polishing buckeyes in the peninsula.
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[Sue]

Clarice,

OMG, I laughed so hard over that one my sides are still sore. Trying to be a football man while wearing wind surfing tights. :grin: I can't believe he won Wisconsin after that gaffe.

[Rick Ballard]

Sue,

Those Madison kids got out and voted and voted and voted and voted. Cameras need to be allowed at the entrances to polling places so that the kids have the opportunity to find out what a felony looks like.

[Sue]

With all of the stupid comments Kerry made, it still amazes me that people make fun of Bush for misspeaking. ::grin::

[clarice]

Yes. Sue..Rick is right.The election results in Wisconsin was fraudulent. And for the third time the Governor has vetoed an ID Bill. I grew up there and it was the most honest government in the U.S.

Same day registration with no I.D. requirement changed all that.

[cathyf]

By the way, "point" is traditionally spelled with an 'i'. (Damn letters. One time we had the artwork for the CD and the jewel case for a game already at the printers when somebody noticed that the logo said "Ulimate." We had every one of us looked at the logo a gazillion times...)

cathy :-)

[cathyf]

Every month caravans of Chicago ghetto dwellers head up to Milwaukee with their fake Wisconsin addresses to collect their Wisconsin welfare checks after they cash their Illinois welfare checks. On election day after voting a few times in Chicago they head to Milwaukee to vote a few more times.

cathy :-)

[clarice]

Well, you won't get the governor to get behind clean elections--why not document the welfare fraud, demand jail time for the perps and see what he does?

[richard mcenroe]

Anyway, in answer to your question: we'll give Hillary props when she goes to work as a greeter at a Little Rock WalMart and gets the hell out of our faces...

[clarice]

WalMart--Teresa was a big stockholder and then made those stupid anti-WalMart remarks during the campaign, and if I'm not mistaken Hillary was once on its Board.

It is a marvel--and has done more to keep inflation down and the living standards of the lower middle class high than all the schemes the Dems have dreamed of ever will.

[Slartibartfast]

Lambeau Field is where the Packers play; Lambert is where Boilermaker basketball is played. Such as it is, these days.

[Syl]

Even tho the Repubs aren't united on everything, the Dems are an utter mess of confusion.

Kondrake today said that various Dems have shown four different positions on Iraq..then listed five. LOL

And the Dems are mad as heck at Kerry for stealing the limelight with his presser re Bush's speech. Stepped all over their planned response. And they just ignore Lieberman.

It's a real circus. The Party of Defeat.

Hillary doesn't have to triangulate, she has to septangulate!

[richard mcenroe]

clarice — Business Week had a great article on the Katrina relief efforts of large corporations. While Blanco and Nagin were running around like headless chickens in a voudoun's hut, Walmart's decision tree was basically... do we have stuff? Do we have trucks? Do we have distribution points? Go.

[clarice]

Yup!

[Dwilkers]

Rick B-

I agree, but with Hilly in the race stand by for the nastiest campaign on recent history.

And honestly I don't see how she could win a national election - but I am a poor predictor, I never thought a state like New York would allow her to move to the state and auddenly become so knowledgeable about the state that they'd allow her to represent them in the US Senate.

[Dwilkers]

Think about this though; what Dem - a Dem likely to win the nomination I mean - would you rather have as president?

We're in a war after all, and national security trumps everything else in national elections, or at least it has during my lifetime when it is an issue.

I suspect we're going to have a Dem president next election, here's hoping they don't nominate some anti-American moron...but don't you have to be an anti-American moore-on to get the Dem nomination nowadays?

[MayBee]

septangulate

Brilliant, Syl!

[JayDee]

Hillary has to act all macho about the war because she's female. She can't afford to join the MAJORITY of AMERICANS who now just want this monstrosity to go the hell away. It's her Catch 22.

I don't think she will get the nomination. It isn't her credentials. Here in NY State she has won all kinds of people over. You don't see "Go Home Hillary" bumper stickers anymore. People realize she's competent. efficient and pragmatic. Even bonafide rightwing assholes like Peter King praise her for her ability to get things done for her state, and she's particularly won them over in the economically strapped upstate rural regions.

Like most Dems, Hillary is a very conventional career politician. There's nothing to fear from her, which is why we get so much nonsense from the right, trying to demonize her and pry into her private life.Her positions, including national health care, represent the national will, as most people now favor something that would stop the madness of unaffordable, inefficient health care in this country. However, I pray she doesn't get the nom. We really don't need a YEAR of Sean Vanity bleating about her being a lesbian married to a rapist. We've sunk pretty low in this country, thanks to the shameless winger media, but I don't think we could survive that kind of sickness.

You guys has best run McCain. He'd beat any Dem, especially Hillary. If you don't run him, the Dem nominee will win in a walk, whoever he/she is.

[kim]

Why would a lesbian marry a rapist?
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[JayDee]

Ask Mr. Vanity. I think it's because both those words send people's heads spinning, depriving them of the capability for coherent thought, thereby creating ideal conditions for Republican votes.

[kim]

Guessed wrong.

Answer: They wanted a traditional marriage.

Alt. ans. It was for the kids.

True answer: She's a one in a million gal. She could harness his lust to useful purpose.
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[kim]

Bear in mind that there was a lot of purposely destructive use made of that lust. It is certainly her hypocrisy that unleashed some of that. And she's a feminist? Lord help us.
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[JayDee]

Well, kim, you've just hit on the reason why a Hillary for Prez campaign would be so disgusting. The winger media have packaged that line "How can she be a feminist when she stayed married to a womanizer? " I'd like to see the wingers pry into all the marriages of powerful men to that degree and bring their dirty laundry out so we can judge the hypocrisy of their political positions. Fact is, if she divorced Big Bill, they'd be ragging on her for being untrue to her "death do us part" vow. Whatever's convenient.

Clearly she's a feminist in that she believes in women being free to reach their inborn potential. The fact that she stayed married to a hound dog puts her in the company of a hell of a lot of women. If women rejected all the hound dogs in the world, we'd cut the marriage rate by about half. But it's convenient, because it gives the dumbbots in the country something they can identify with and feel superior to - even if they do the same thing privately. They know they'll never be under the glass. I mean you've got drug addicts like Rush preaching about locking up drug addicts (just not him)...clearly there's no moral low your guys won't stoop to. A Hillary candidacy would really be destructive for that reason. I hope she realizes that, but I'm pretty sure her ambition doesn't let her think that honestly.

[Dorf]

Sorry y'all but she'll win by three points nationally. Just watch. It does not make dorf happy to say this, but that's the way it is.

[kim]

You've stopped foaming and I appreciate your own thoughts.
I object to her hypocrisy. Selling beef, or being beef on the hoof, she is Prime Grade Double AA Hypocrite.
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[kim]

Dorf, you may be right, but she is susceptible to a third party leftist challenge. Lose by three to my Condi.
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[Dorf]

Love the Condi scenrio, but she won't do it. As to the third paty, the left will vote strategically this time 100%. The policy differences will not matter. Add in the last stand of the mainstream media and you have a close victory for Hil.

[kim]

And JayDee, maybe if she actually said and did something about the hound dog in her life she might inspire a lot of other women to do something about the hound dog in their lives. You know, show a little leadership, or something, about something important. Instead: silence. Ever again.

And in the meantime, she and her example have seriously inhibited real progress(ooh that word) in intersexual relations. Try engaging even serious thinkers about her conundrum with Bill. Barbar is what I harhar.

Hound dog. Man's best friend. No, his tongue is.
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[kim]

Sorry, Hillary is speechless. Can't you see the Condi-Hillary debates?
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