The Secret Life Of Lewis Libby

Over at the Huffington Post we find John Amato huffing and posting about what Libby complained about when he called Tim Russert in July 2003.  Jeralyn Merritt has background as well.

Well.  Mickey Kaus gave a very plausible answer to this a few weeks back:

kf hears, through trustworthy and knowledgeable sources, that in his conversation with Russert Libby gave vent to the archetypal (and wrongheaded) charge that Matthews was animated by anti-Semitism--presumably because Matthews talked a lot about "neoconservative" Bush aides and war supporters and interviewed guests (such as Pat Caddell) who did too.

If that was Libby's complaint, it would help explain why NBC wanted to keep quiet about its exact contents. Not only does it potentially bring up a wild, hard-to-refute issue that the network would rather not have to deal with--but Libby's jag is also something you wouldn't forget, or make up, which would make Russert's testimony extremely convincing at trial. Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald may have wanted to keep it secret so it would have as much of an impact as possible, and Russert may be trying to honor a request from the prosecutor.

Let me run with that and toss in some wild speculation you have seen nowhere else.  I am not sure it would come out at trial, but it strikes me as plausible and relevant to the broader question of Libby's motives with respect to Joe Wilson.

Two leading questions will mark my course - first, is there any reason to think that it was only Chris Matthews that struck the "anti-neocon = anti-Semite" nerve in Libby, or is it a reasonable guess that Libby considered others to be anti-Semites as well?

And secondly, what was it with Libby and Joe Wilson?

You can guess the rest - some old appearances of Wilson at least allude to the sort of dual-loyalty issue that seems to be a part of the neocon/anti-Semitism debate.  I run them below.  And let's be crystal-clear: I am *NOT* alleging that Joe Wilson, Chris Matthews, or anyone else is anti-Semitic.  I am speculating that Lewis Libby may have thought so. 

Per an old LA Times story, Libby's interest in Wilson seemed to be excessive even to others at the White House:

Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff was so angry about the public statements of former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, a Bush administration critic married to an undercover CIA officer, that he monitored all of Wilson's television appearances and urged the White House to mount an aggressive public campaign against him, former aides say.

...Libby pressed the administration to publicly counter Wilson, sparking a debate with other White House officials who thought the tactic would call more attention to the former diplomat and his criticisms. That debate ended after an April 2004 meeting in the office of White House Communications Director Daniel Bartlett, when staffers were told "don't engage" Wilson, according to notes taken during the meeting by one person present.

Why so angry?  The obvious answer would be that Cheney's office marshalled the case for war, and it was Cheney's office that was anonymously attacked by Wilson in the early Kristof columns.

But there were other folks in Cheney's office that should have felt similarly threatened.  Might Libby have been motivated by something else?

Let's try a different tack - Wilson claims that it was a Wilson appearance on PBS in Feb 2003 that caught the eye of the White House.  Fitzgerald, in his indictment, dated the interest in Wilson to the May 6 Kristof column.

But let's unite the theories!  Per this LA Times piece above, Libby gathered up reports on Wilson's writings and public appearances (Yes, the LA Times says it was after Wilson's book, but that makes no sense at all).  So, perhaps Libby first took an interest in Wilson after May 6, but let it be known that he considered Wilson's Feb PBS appearance to be important.

Well, then - is there anything in the Wilson appearance on PBS that might be viewed as anti-Semitism?  Does Wilson raise the dual loyalty issue?

Let me repeat - I am *NOT* endorsing the "Anti-neocon = anti-Semite" reasoning.  Republicans have grown accustomed to hearing that anyone opposed to affirmative action is a racist, as proven by the fact that some affirmative action opponents are racist.  That argument does not impress me either.  However, if the anti-neocon argument resonated with Libby, let's see where it takes us.

This is from Wilson's PBS appearance in Feb 2003:

MOYERS: Tell me what you think about the arguments of one of those men, Richard Perle, who is perhaps the most influential advocate in the President's and the administration's ear arguing to get rid of Saddam Hussein. What do you think about his argument?

WILSON: Well, he's certainly the architect of a study that was produced in the mid-'90s for the Likud Israeli government called "a clean break, a new strategy for the realm." And it makes the argument that the best way to secure Israeli security is through the changing of some of these regimes beginning with Iraq and also including Syria. And that's been since expanded to include Iran.

MOYERS: So this was drawn up during the '90s…

WILSON:  Right.  During the '90s, absolutely.

MOYERS: By men outside of all this?

WILSON:  Outside of all this, yeah.

MOYERS: And…

WILSON:  Now, Richard Perle's been outside of office since the Reagan years.

MOYERS: And this, you're saying that this has become a blueprint for the Bush Administration?

WILSON: Well, I think this is part of what has been the underpinning of the-- of the philosophical argument that calls for basically radically changing the political dynamics in the Middle East and…

MOYERS: To favor Israel?

WILSON:  Well, to favor American national security interests and Israeli national security interests which are tied.  I mean, we have…

MOYERS: How so?

WILSON: We have an important strategic responsibility to ensure the territorial integrity of Israel. It's one that we've accepted since 1948. It's one that's been increasingly close. There are those who believe that perhaps we've confused our responsibilities with the slavish adherence to the Likud strategy.

MOYERS: Likud, the party.

WILSON: It's the party in power right now. And certainly when the President or when Sharon comes — the Prime Minister comes to Washington and says that George Bush is the best friend that Israel ever had. And George Bush calls him a man of peace, calls Sharon a man of peace, there are those who wonder about the depth of our ties and the extent to which our national security responsibilities may somehow be confused with our support for the current government in Israel.

MOYERS: So help us understand why removing Saddam Hussein and expanding that movement, throughout the Middle East which would benefit Israel?

WILSON:  Well, I think those are the sorts of questions that you need to ask to Richard Perle.  The argument that I would make…

MOYERS: We asked him but he didn't want to come on the show.

Now, I am having a hard time conjuring some empathy with Lewis Libby, and I am having a hard time imagining whether that sounded like a "dual loyalties" attack on supporters of the war against Iraq.  Was Wilson speaking in a code that Libby and folks like David Brooks understood to be anti-Semitic?

Or, since Wilson had been at the State Department for years, had he left behind a reputation for being an Arabist?

Maybe someone could ask Libby.  Meanwhile, check this Wilson appearance on Buchanan and Press from Feb 18, 2003 (via Lexis):

BUCHANAN: All right, now, what do you think the president's objective is? He says, we're going to disarm this guy or I'm going to do it. And you say it's looking like a war of invasion, of conquest, of occupation, of reorientation.

What do you think the administration's real objective is? Because, if it is the second,one, they are going to look for a pretext to get the job done, whether he gives up more weapons or whatever he's doing.

WILSON: I believe the president's objective is the national security of the country. I take him at his word on that. And I believe him when he says that disarming Saddam is absolutely key to the national security of the country. I do believe, however, that those around him who have said that, you cannot disarm Saddam without invading and subsequently occupying the country, I doubt their motives.

He doubts their motives?  More code?  A bit later, Press addresses this more directly:

PRESS: ...Mr. Ambassador, I want to ask you maybe about the bigger picture here that's going on, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon of Israel quoted this morning as saying that -- yesterday said: "Iran, Libya, and Syria should be stripped of weapons of mass destruction next after Iraq. They're also threats after the United States takes care of Iraq."

He's implying that the United States should take care of Iran, Libya and Syria and have regime change in all of those countries as well. Is that President Bush's plan? Is that the American people are being asked to support?

WILSON: Well, there are certainly those who have written some of the philosophical underpinnings of this strategy who make those arguments. The seminal study was "A Clean Break" by Richard Perle in a study group, many of whom are occupying key positions in this administration. It's called "A Strategy for the Realm" or something like that. For the Israeli government, it was written for. And they make a lot of arguments about how to restructure the Middle East, including taking out Iraq and regime change in Iraq, applying pressure to Syria and to Iran.

BUCHANAN: Let me follow up on that.

"A Clean Break," you're right, "A Strategy for the Realm" was written, I believe, in 1996. It was written for Bibi Netanyahu, the incoming prime minister of Israel. And it talked about taking down Iraq first. We have seen Norman Patard's (ph) commentary list, about seven or eight countries, other scholars over at AEI and elsewhere.

And the argument is made that, by attacking the neocons and singling these people out, it is illegitimate to do so, because you are doing it because of their ethnicity. Did you see the piece by Lawrence Kaplan today?

WILSON: I saw the piece. I took some offense at it, because I think it is not the same to be for smart military action or not for military action and to be essentially being what they are claiming, anti-Semitic.

(CROSSTALK)

BUCHANAN: Is there not an overlap between what the neocons are arguing for and what Sharon wants as an American agenda for the Middle East?

WILSON: Very clearly. And it is actively debated in Israeli newspapers, including an article in October in "The Haaretz" which was entitled, "Perles of Wisdom for the Feithful," referring to Richard Perle and Doug Feith, who at the Pentagon.

 

I can't crack the code.  Here is the Lawrence Kaplan piece (which mentions Chris Matthews as an offender), and scroll down here for a response from Mickey Kaus.

Well.  If we accept that Libby viewed some people as anti-Semitic for the nature of their attacks on the neo-cons, it is possible, based on these excerpts or others, that Joe Wilson was placed by Libby in that category.

And what does that suggest?  Well, was anyone convinced by Libby's "I heard about Plame in June from Cheney, but forgot it completely until I heard it again from Russert in July" defense?  I didn't think so.

But that already weak-defense becomes absurd if the prosecution can argue that Libby was motivated to "Get Joe" because he believed Wilson to be anti-Semitic.

On the other hand, Libby as a lone gunmen also becomes more plausible - maybe there was no conspiracy, and this Plame leak story is just Libby trying too hard to put Joe Wilson in his place.

Or... I scarcely dare suggest it, but if this was a conspiracy led by a fellow out to quash the anti-Semites, is there any particular ethnic characteristic we might look for in Libby's co-conspirators?  Maybe David Wurmser is a more likely suspect than Karl Rove.

I doubt the prosecution would ever let it get that far - the last example particularly illustrates that Fitzgerald would be treading on very thin ice if he started suggesting that a Jewish cabal was out to get Wilson.  Frankly, I think the whole topic is sufficiently radioactive that neither side will tackle it.

However, I am not prosecuting this; I am just trying to figure out what happened, and why.

Self Awareness Note:  I do not have notebooks devoted to Joesph Wilson's every utterance, and my experience is that Wilson's defenders (the Few, the Proud) are much more inclined to be obsessed with him than I am.  But thanks for wondering.

UPDATE:  I don't know whether Wilson's EPIC speech of June 14, 2004 would have been available to Libby (or might he have gotten feedback some other way?), but here are some excerpts that might have struck a sensitive neo-con as being anti-Semitic (Remember, its not what you or I think, its what Libby might have thought that matters):

[Includes statements: 19:46: "The real agenda in all this, of course, was to redraw the political map of the Middle East. Now that is code, whether you like it or not, but it is code for putting into place the strategy memorandum which was done by Richard Perle and his study group in the mid-90s, which was called 'A Clean Break: A New Strategy for the Realm'. And what it is, cut to the quick, is if you take out some of these countries, or some of these governments, that are antagonistic to Israel, then you provide the Israeli government with greater wherewithal to impose its terms and conditions on the Palestinian people. . .But that is the real agenda. You can put weapons of mass destruction out there, you can put terrorism out there, you can put liberation out there. Weapons of mass destruction got hard-headed realists on board, through a bunch of lies. . ."

...
13:33: In response to the question about the geopolitical agenda behind the Iraq war, Wilson replies, "On the other ones, the geopolitical situation, I think there are a number of issues at play; there's a number of competing agendas. One is the remaking of the map of the Middle East for Israeli security, and my fear is that when it becomes increasingly apparent that this was all done to make Sharon's life easier and that American soldiers are dying in order to enable Sharon to impose his terms upon the Palestinians that people will wonder why it is American boys and girls are dying for Israel and that will undercut a strategic relationship and a moral obligation that we've had towards Israel for 55 years. I think it's a terribly flawed strategy."

Comments

[Seixon]

Russert and Libby talking about Wilson sounds much more plausible than all of that, in other words, that Cheney wasn't responsible for sending Wilson.

I'm not really seeing the anti-Semitic message being broadcasted by Wilson (or Matthews) in these instances...

[kim]

Ever again.
===========

[richard mcenroe]

If you google for the haaretz perle feith you find quite a few folks who think they broke the code...

[topsecretk9]

Wilson (or Matthew's) in these instances...

I have been meaning to say this for a while, but I have always found it peculiar that while Matthew's appears to be "in the know" on the OUTSIDE the WH skinny (i.e. the Wilson perspective), but Wilson never goes on Matthew's show. Afterall, Matthew's IS the most sympathetic Wilson lover on TV (i.e. doting, spit dripping SOFTballs)

My thought has always been a "too close for comfort" type situation (particularly since Matthew's tripped over his phone cord to inform of the "fair game" comment)

[topsecretk9]

Richard...like this?

[Jimmy's Attack Rabbit]

*****Note To Future Historians*****

Please note the story known as Nada-gate may in fact be a singularity or black hole for conspiracy theories. If you are reading this then may God have mercy on your soul. Or is it Allah now?

[G Wiz]

In light of the Woodward revelation, can't Libby still fall back on the 'bad memory' defense? He thought it was Russert he heard it from, but it was actually someone else? It seems he's not the only with a differing recollection of events.

[kim]

J'accuse.
==========

[Jeff]

Well, was anyone convinced by Libby's "I heard about Plame in June from Cheney, but forgot it completely until I heard it again from Russert in July" defense? I didn't think so.

Evidently you don't read the comments section here.

On the main topic, I was well aware that there were lots of people who equated criticism of the state of Israel with anti-semitism. But good g-d, criticism of one party in the state of Israel?!?

Meanwhile, there may be bad news brewing for fans of 1x2x6.

[Jim E.]

Interesting post, but I agree that this is probably too radioactive for anyone to really run with. It was always bizarre to think that Libby had tax-payer funded assistants keeping track of speeches Wilson was giving at Wassitsname University AFTER the SP investigation was well under way. It does seem that Libby was strangely obsessed with Wilson, and it's probably a good thing Libby is no longer in the halls of power.

But there was one part of your post that I had to re-read a few times: "Well, was anyone convinced by Libby's 'I heard about Plame in June from Cheney, but forgot it completely until I heard it again from Russert in July' defense? I didn't think so." And here I thought that you read the comment threads to your posts.

[Jim E.]

Didn't mean to pile on about the reading the comments. Was writing while Jeff posted.

"Meanwhile, there may be bad news brewing for fans of 1x2x6."

Explain? Is this a new story, or are you referring to Steve Clemons post from yesterday?

[kim]

Hey why not paint with a broad brush such issues?
================================================

[dogtownGuy]

-- And here I thought that you read the comment threads to your posts.--

Is it a crime to pass over the ones that are not worth the while? The FORGOT defense (ie HIGH paid attorneys) is founded, since no party (ie reporter) seems to have a rock solid memory of anything. Ask Andrea Mitchell--her story is VERY fluid.

[clarice]

I disagree with Tom and I rarely do--It's a straight line from the VIPS-Wilson dual loyalty charge to the simpler version spouted by Cindy Sheehan . You have only to spend a short time on any chat board to miss the anti-Semitic tone that colors every discussion of PNAC and Perle, Feith Wolfowitz, etc. As Steyn put it of Wolfowitz,"Wolfowitz is a demonic figure to the anti-war types for little reason other than that his name begins with a big scary animal and ends Jewishly."

I don't know if Libby (Jewish) felt that way, but I know I do. And it comes from Buchanan AND the left.

[clarice]

Should be:"You have only to spend a short time on any chat board to spot the anti-Semitic tone
.."

[Terrie]

Tom, neo-con is a buzzword that, when used with a sneer by Pat Buchanan and Chris Matthews, pushes my non-Jewish buttons. So I cannot doubt that Libby, if he were as Wilson-conscious as the L.A. Times story sources allege, felt a personal reaction to Wilson's habitual criticism of Israel and conservative supporters of Israel.

I am slightly less Plame obsessed than you are, but my numerous readings about Libby do not place him in the neo-con social circle with Bill Kristol, Richard Perle, et al. Can you imagine any of them dressed in cowboy gear at a Wyoming rodeo in August? Kinky Friedman, maybe.

Just look at the names of his legal defense fundraisers: James Woolsey, Steve Forbes, Jack Kemp, Bill Paxon (Mr. Susan Molinari), Tucker Carlson's dad Richard, Jeane Kirkpatrick (one of the original neo-cons), Fred Thompson, and Alan Simpson (another Wyoming connection). No Jewish neo-cons there.

I try to imagine myself working practically 24/7 as the closest advisor to the most influential Vice President during one of the most stressful, turbulent periods in U.S. history. Suddenly some undistinguished former diplomat launches a deceptive attack on my boss that is adopted uncritically by the mainstream media. The foundation for the diplomat's credibility is his false claim that my boss personally sent him on a fact-finding mission.

Let's pause to savor the irony of Joe Wilson being sent on a fact-finding mission. I guess he's still searching O.J. style for those elusive facts.

I'm not in Scooter's Tony Lama boots, but I can readily believe that he needed no other excuse to despise Wilson.

Happy Thanksgiving to TM and all the JOM regulars who keep me riveted to my computer!

[clarice]

And then there's Wilson's VIPS supporter, McGovern ,and his supporters captured in Milbanks famous Conyers playhouse hearings:

"The session took an awkward turn when witness Ray McGovern, a former intelligence analyst, declared that the United States went to war in Iraq for oil, Israel and military bases craved by administration "neocons" so "the United States and Israel could dominate that part of the world." He said that Israel should not be considered an ally and that Bush was doing the bidding of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.

"Israel is not allowed to be brought up in polite conversation," McGovern said. "The last time I did this, the previous director of Central Intelligence called me anti-Semitic."

Rep. James P. Moran Jr. (D-Va.), who prompted the question by wondering whether the true war motive was Iraq's threat to Israel, thanked McGovern for his "candid answer."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/16/AR2005061601570.html. This caused

Franks and others to run for the exits, but it is not a secret that they've been peddling this from day one.

I do NOT think I'm being overly sensitive to this.

[Jim E.]

- "A person could easily think [Matthews] a bigot "
- "[Wilson’s] Epic Speech isn't easily characterized as PRO-Semitic...that speech does make eyebrows raise"
- "Wolfowitz is a demonic figure to the anti-war types for little reason other than that his name begins with a big scary animal and ends Jewishly."

Back in the day, it was conservatives who mocked liberals for so quickly playing the race/ethnicity/religious card.

(And more card games: Bush's implication that those who doubted democracy in Iraq are racist; those (like Richard Clarke) who dare criticize Condy Rice are anti-black and/or anti-woman; Michael Steele's Oreo stories. Everyone likes being a victim, I guess.)

[clarice]

Here is Wilson in an online Wa Po chat:

"Fairfax, Va.: (At the risk of sounding anti-Semitic, which I don't intend), if Saddam didn't support Palestinian suicide bombers, do you think we'd be in a war to liberate Iraq?

Joseph C. Wilson: The literature is clear. His[The President's] closest advisers have argued for years that the way to peace in the middle east is to crush the palestinian resistance and it supporters. I profoundly disagree with that analysis, but it is not anti semitic or semitic. It is secular and tied to the Likud party "

http://216.109.125.130/search/cache?p=Joseph+A+Wilson+anti-semitic&sm=Yahoo%21+Search&toggle=1&ei=UTF-8&u=discuss.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/zforum/03/sp_iraq_wilson040303.htm&w=joseph+wilson+anti+semitic&d=W9CXNY6CL1B_&icp=1&.intl=us

It seems to me that at the very least he is accusing the President's advisors of acting in support of the Likud party to the detriment of this country.
If that is not a dual-loyalty charge, what is? And if it is a dual-loyalty charge, what tap dance gets you around the reasonable next step, that he dares make this charge because so many of the advisors urging this step are Jewish.

[kim]

If the shoe fits, wear it.
============================

[topsecretk9]

AS-HO JIM E.

[TexasToast]

It is not about Israel. It is not about YOU, Clarice.

Our interests and Israel's interests are NOT aligned. Our interest is a stable oil supply, with or without Israel. Our interest is curtailing Islamic extreamism directed against the US - not becoming something other than an honest broker in the Israeli-Palistinian conflict. There is a large difference between anti-Semitism and and slavishly supporting Israeli interests. Remember, The Arabs are Semites too.

The "shoe" doesn't fit.

[clarice]

Wilson's comments in the WaPo chat were not a one off--on June 14, 2003 when he spoke at EPIC (with McGovern) he made the charge more specifically:

"In Wilson's book, Israel is the primary reason the United States went to war against Iraq. He might have made a credible case if he spoke of the need to defend the one functioning democracy in that benighted part of the world, to forestall a second Holocaust, to prevent Saddam from destroying Tel Aviv with a few well-aimed VX-tipped missiles, or even to stop him from commissioning suicide bombers. But to do so might impute sensible motives to Bush and his shadowy neocon advisers.

No, as Wilson sees it, the Iraq war was waged for no nobler purpose than "to make Sharon's life easier." By "easier" he means that the removal of Saddam among other forced changes in the region would "provide the Israeli government with greater wherewithal to impose its terms and conditions on the Palestinian people."

As Wilson explains, these plans were hatched by Richard Perle and his study group some years back. And now, as a result, "... American boys and girls are dying for Israel." http://www.israelnetdaily.com/redir.php?headline=2918

Now, you may think that charging that putting American boys and girls in harm's way to serve Israeli interests is not anti_semitic. I don't.

[Jeff]

I guess clarice was not impressed by this point from TM, as she is impressed by the kind of argument TM is not impressed by:

Republicans have grown accustomed to hearing that anyone opposed to affirmative action is a racist, as proven by the fact that some affirmative action opponents are racist. That argument does not impress me either.

[clarice]

I cannot think of a more disgusting charge. I cannot think of any way to read these remarks by Wilson and his buddy cohort McGovern except as anti-Semitic.

It's practical affect is to make Jews suspect in high foreign policy positions.

[MayBee]

I don't know that it has to be anti-Semitism.
But there is obviously a faction that believes Israel/Lukid/Sharon pushed us into the war in Iraq. And Wilson seems to step into that camp in the WaPo chat.

So, Libby doesn't have to dislike Wilson for being anti-semitic (or consider him so). But he certainly would have been interested, I'm sure, in seeing this 'truth teller' running with the 'neo-cons are running the war for Israel' crowd.

[TP]

State Department antipathy toward the Iraq invasion has a similar historical parallel in George Marshall's position that he would continue to work for Truman but would not vote for him after Truman's recognition of Israel. Marshall believed that Truman was being used by Jewish interests (particularly labor unions) in the U. S and suspected that Israel was being recognized by Truman because of his domestic political agenda. It is not hard to make the leap to Colin Powell whose great hero was Marshall. I am not saying that Powell was anti-semitic or anti-Zionist, but the State Department had that history. The Republicans, such as Buchanan, who oppose the war find their roots in 1930-40s Republican isolationism. It is always interesting to go back to Lindberg's 9-11-41 speech to get a flair for this.

The fault lines in this administration seem to be between State Department Scowcroftian realists (many of whom are gentiles) WH/DOD Neocons (many of whom were Jewish). It is almost the same dynamic that was there in Truman's time.

It wouldn't be surprising to me if, given the history of the situation, Libby didn't think that Wilson was performing a hatchet job for the State Department (given Wilson's apparent sponsorship by his friend Scowcroft in the run up to the war). It is entirely possible that that he made some comment to Russert about the State Department's history of anti-Zionism and that there was a State Depatment Cabal out to get the WH. (Given Wilkerson's claims of a DOD/WH cabal, is it unreasonable that the WH might have had the same view of the SD?). Russert, not being tuned in to the extent of the territorial war in Bush Country could have told Libby that his real was not at the State Department, but with Joe Wilson's wife at the CIA.

[topsecretk9]

Clarice...I am not Jewish (Portuguese actually) and I concur...the left is the party of Cybil when it comes to bigotry's,. Ask a liberal their opinions and feelings towards christian fundamentalists...better yet don't.

[clarice]

It certainly isn't anti-Semitism in an old fashioned racialist sense, but it is in the Dreyfuss sense to me.It is do not trust these people in high places charged with defending U.S. interests--they are really acting in the interests of another nation and against the interests of their own.

How else can you read this?

This, by the way, is the Arabists' sub theme--as they rush to early retirement and a cushy spot on the Saudi teat. (Doubt that? google the former siplomats who signed all those letters in support of Kerry and in opposition to Bush.)

[kim]

Just as sympathy for the supposedly oppressed Palestinian has led to anit-semitism so has Bush Derangement Syndrome led to the repudiation of the Iraqis' right to self-determination. Liberals are sick these days.

And TT, we know there are many descendents of Shem lying about here and there. Do not try to misconstrue the meaning of 'anti-semitism'.
=================================================

[clarice]

Ahem--Diplomats, not siplomats (although the latter is an interesting synonym).

[clarice]

I agree TS with your view of liberals..I remember being at a party years ago with the Reuthers. That day Idi Amin was expelling all the Indians from Uganda and stealing everything they owned. I said it was awful, We had to speak out. Victor Reuther's wife responded that she'd been there and it was the Indians' fault, they hadn't really assimilated.
I loved the host, but begged off further parties at his house because i realized I could no longer stomach the hyporcisy of these people.

[clarice]

As I recall, the day after the Conyers' playhouse hearings, Barney Frank attacked McGovern's statements--so I'd say it is not just conservatives who see the anti-Semitic tone of them.

And I do not think the rest of the Dems headed for the exits after McGovern and Moran's remarks did so because they had to hit the restrooms.

You may not have seen the implications of those remarks, but in the light of day they did. (Better for the liberal Dems to have this hidden than exposed, I suppose.)

[MayBee]

I always found the push for the common use of the term 'neo-con' to be interesting. It isn't a term this group of thinkers have chosen for themselves, and they've never embraced it. Chris Matthews was an early user of the term, at a time when the only other 'neo' terms in common use were 'neo pets' and 'neo nazis'. I felt the term brought up rather unfortunate associations.

There was a lot of push back against the term itself, in the early 2000's. Remember David Brooks column?

[clarice]

I don't get all this naming business. These are people with views not unlike Scoop Jackson's--remember, when the Dem party actually stood for a virile foreign policy and national defense? Try. Close your eyes and go back, back in time.

[topsecretk9]

Rep. James Moran (D-Va.)

"If it were not for the strong support of the Jewish community for this war with Iraq, we would not be doing this," said Moran, ...

""The leaders of the Jewish community are influential enough that they could change the direction of where this is going, and I think they should."

[TexasToast]

Top

Having grown up in a christian fundamentalist world (Baylor BA 79, JD, 82), don't talk to me about christian fundamentalists. I know them inside and out - a veteran of the many battles to define what a Baptist is. I tell you, it is no the same as it once was. A people have forgotten their owm history. Roger Williams is probably turning in his grave as we speak. Bigotry? You have no idea.

Clarice is playing the anti-Semitism(Jewish) card with a vengence. This was the wrong war, at the wrong time, for the wrong reason. These guys though it would be easy - and now they are searching/pining/hoping for an exit - and Sharon - of all people - is leaving Likud. Only Nixon could go to China......

[kim]

You can't care to defend what you are ashamed of and that is the root of the liberals' problems. This USA is not PC. The More is the PT.
===============================================

[clarice]

Sorry, TT- the ridiculous policy of the Scowscroftians weren't working --and Bush's are (Libya folded. nuke souk rolled up, Syria thrown out of Lebanon; Taliban smashed and Afghanistan freed; Iraq well on it's way to democracy) Tectonic plates are shifting. It's all good.

I have to get up early and fly to L.A. Niters--and best holiday wishes to all--especially TS.

[topsecretk9]

'neo pets' = "neo appeasers"

[topsecretk9]

Top

Having grown up in a christian fundamentalist world (Baylor BA 79, JD, 82), don't talk to me about christian fundamentalists. I know them inside and out - a veteran of the many battles to define what a Baptist is. I tell you, it is no the same as it once was. A people have forgotten their owm history. Roger Williams is probably turning in his grave as we speak. Bigotry? You have no idea.

My point is I don't hate YOU or THEM period.

[kim]

TT, what was wrong about this war?
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[topsecretk9]

I GUARANTEE if the right adopted "neo appeasers" to describe the left, they would EXPLODE with "chill wind", "chill wind"...this is McCarthy x3000.

[topsecretk9]

Moran Warns of Quiet Plans to Reinstate Draft

In F.C. toewn meeting with Amb. Wilson, Bush Iraq Policy Assailed

By Nicholas F. Benton

A universal military draft could be in the works if a new approach to resolving the post-invasion turmoil is not found, Rep. Jim Moran told a near-capacity audience at a town meeting here Monday. The event was held at George mason high School auditorium and featured sharp remarks critical of the Bush Administration by former U.S. Ambassador Joseph Wilson.

[topsecretk9]

THAT was Oct. 2004, this last month (2005) Wilson said he hoped the constitutional vote failed ...and

this is NOW (via instap.)

"So, knowing that the plan was to redeploy troops beginning next year, the Democrats decided to get in front of the wave: Demand the troops be sent home NOW and then when the Pentagon announces the plan to redeploy, take credit for it."

[topsecretk9]

I think there were MORE than a few commenter's (creepy?) that a few weeks a ago that obsessively were posting POLL #'s. (and I think since that time Congressional Dems dipped lower than Pubs, but what-eve.)

I pointed out that troops would be coming HOME soon and Rove just faced the dems asses and WROTE next years mid terms election ads...

"I supported the war before I was against it"

Ahem. DUH.

[MJW]

The passage Clarice quotes in this post is interesting not so much because it might show Wilson to be anti-semetic, but because it shows that at least some people, rightly or wrongly, accuse him of sounding anti-semetic. Perhaps Libby was one of those people.

On the other hand, I'm not sure why it's assumed that Libby confined himself to one complaint about CNBC or Matthews while talking to Russert. Maybe he called to gripe about perceived anti-semitism, but couldn't refrain himself from launching into a jag about that no-good Joe Wilson and the free-ride Matthews was giving him. A two-fer.

[TM]

From Wilson's EPIC speech, as transcribed:

[Includes statements: 19:46: "The real agenda in all this, of course, was to redraw the political map of the Middle East. Now that is code, whether you like it or not, but it is code for putting into place the strategy memorandum which was done by Richard Perle and his study group in the mid-90s, which was called 'A Clean Break: A New Strategy for the Realm'. And what it is, cut to the quick, is if you take out some of these countries, or some of these governments, that are antagonistic to Israel, then you provide the Israeli government with greater wherewithal to impose its terms and conditions on the Palestinian people. . .But that is the real agenda. You can put weapons of mass destruction out there, you can put terrorism out there, you can put liberation out there. Weapons of mass destruction got hard-headed realists on board, through a bunch of lies. . ."

...
13:33: In response to the question about the geopolitical agenda behind the Iraq war, Wilson replies, "On the other ones, the geopolitical situation, I think there are a number of issues at play; there's a number of competing agendas. One is the remaking of the map of the Middle East for Israeli security, and my fear is that when it becomes increasingly apparent that this was all done to make Sharon's life easier and that American soldiers are dying in order to enable Sharon to impose his terms upon the Palestinians that people will wonder why it is American boys and girls are dying for Israel and that will undercut a strategic relationship and a moral obligation that we've had towards Israel for 55 years. I think it's a terribly flawed strategy."

Seems to fit the code.

[kim]

Any anti-semitic comments from Joe in his role as a member of Kerry's campaign?

Now there is a tightrope for the radical left.
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[Cecil Turner]

This whole "neo con" thing, like "no blood for oil," is an attack on motives to discredit the argument. Not sure it qualifies as classic anti-semitism, but it certainly leverages anti-semitism for demagogic purposes (which also appears to be the intent). The root argument is still "war" vs "law enforcement" (which IMHO is unwinnable from the anti-war side unless it's framed properly).

On the Israel issue, most conservatives view the conflict--at least to some significant degree--as a proxy war fought by Arab governments using the Palestinians as cat's paws. And, after several unsuccessful conventional invasion attempts, they perforce rely on terrorism. It's worth noting that the strategy seems to be working, wringing concessions out of Israeli governments that open warfare never achieved. As such, Israel may be viewed as the "canary in a coal mine" in the Global War on Terror, and many of our aims overlap.

The Administration chose to focus on state sponsors of terrorism even before 9/11. The terrorists' need for safe haven, training facilities, and access to materiel (and optimally, national level weapons programs) ought to be obvious. Targeting ties with state sponsors is perfectly logical. There may be an honest debate over whether that's the best course of action, but "neo con" isn't part of it.