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April 16, 2006

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clarice

As to (c) What was Joe doing at the Dem Senatorial confab where he met Kristof? Who introduced them? When the report of this meeting indicates he met with Wilson and his wife for lunch.it was referring to Plame weren't it? Did she just nibble French toast? Did she introduce herself? Did she offer any information--for example, about the forgeries? Is that why though Kristof (et al) carried the forgeries story as part of his and then later said he hadn't mentioned the forgeries after all? Is she, not Joe, the whistleblower Fitz says needs protection?

clarice

As to (b) Do Judy's notes show interviews with Armitage? Grossman? Did they tell her about Plame? When? Do her editor's notes indicate she was tasked to get Libby to say what the Times already knew? By June 23, 2003 when she met with Libby, did the NYT already have a plan to run Joe's op ed, and were they looking for something else to put in there or were they asking her to scout out the Administration's response?

clarice

Back to (c) again, How many times did Kristof discuss Joe with Larry Johnson? With other members of the VIPS? Were they ever anonymously sourced in his stories? Did he know that they had a dog in this fight? Did he ever tell that to the readers?
Did he ever talk to Scowcroft? When? What did he say about Wilson? About Plame?

BumperStickerist

.

~ I'm feelin' 7Up! It's a cool,
refresh....
~
.

maryrose

Clarice:
All excellent questions. NYT can't whine and complain whilst withholding information from their readers and Libby's lawyers. Come clean now and stop questinning a presidential authority that you NYT do not have the power to change. Time to put up or shut up.

clarice

Thanks, "weren;t" in the 1st question should be "wasn't" though *urgh*

Neo

Even a president cannot wave a wand and announce that an intelligence report is declassified.

Wow! The NYT should know that the wand is purely optional.

Stormy70

Bumperstickerist - you are very refreshing. Ahhh!

Plame is the whistleblower here, I think.

SteveMG

Even a president cannot wave a wand and announce that an intelligence report is declassified

Who does he think he is, Bill Keller?

Legitimate point by the Times, but I'm doubtful that they have the street cred, so to speak, to make it.

At least if it's my street.

SMG

clarice

[quote]In many instances, it would be nice (for diplomatic, strategic, investigative, or other purposes) if information could be kept under wraps. But governance is freighted with politics — which means it is beset by misinformation, half-truths, and the inaccuracies you get in a bumptious partisan environment, fueled by 24-hour news channels and a press whose default state is frenzy. Consequently, when misinformation approaches a tipping point in the court of public opinion, it is often to the greater good for a president to disclose some sensitive, accurate information so the public is not led astray.
Classic example of this? After the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed in 1998, the Clinton Administration retaliated, in part, by bombing the al Shifa pharmaceutical factory in Sudan. Almost immediately, President Clinton was attacked politically: we had taken out a mere aspirin factory, Sudan was not a threat to us, it was a gratuitous act of American aggression, etc.
So what did the Clinton Administration do? Exactly what it should have done. It had intelligence officials leak to the media previously undisclosed, previously classified information which put President Clinton’s decision in sensible context. [snip]
The press was not very supportive of the Sudan bombing — it was, after all, a use of American military power. But they liked Clinton, so the selective disclosure of previously classified information by Clinton officials was treated matter-of-factly — as it should have been. The story was about the information, not the leak.
To the contrary, they abhor Bush, so the Libby story is about the leak — not the NIE information. That information, of course, puts Iraq operations — which the media also oppose — in more accurate context. Obviously, if your champion is Joseph Wilson, you’d much rather be talking about leaks than substance.
That’s the way the game is played now — and it stinks.[/quote]

http://www.nationalreview.com/mccarthy/mccarthy200604071224.asp

RKV

As someone who has actually HAD a security clearance, yes the presidient CAN declassify any damn thing he wants, irrespective of what the NYTWPABCCBSNBCLATSFC wants. Jesus wept.

clarice

I've been critical of the NYT's naming only 2 subjects of the discovey request--Tenat and Fleischer--but it occurs to me that they must have signed waivers of the pledge of confidentiality. Certianly, if the undisclosed subjects are Plame and Wilson and Beers and Johnson ,for example, they certainly have not.

clarice

***discoveRy request--TenE---certainly****

Neo

This messy episode leaves more questions than answers and ain't that the truth.

Perhaps the NYT, as a matter of public record, disclose all the "leaks" that it has gotten over, say, the past two decades and who leaked them, along with reporters notes for each of these leaks, notes of NYT "officials" that decided to publish or not to publish, and whether the leaks was disclose in it's entirety or selectively.
How are the American people to know that the NYT wasn't using this information to promote an agenda within the NYT or for the favour of a political person or group outside the NYT.

I say the NYT should put up (and the shut up part is off the table). The truth shall set you free.

Dave
We now have the forced admission that in 2003 George W. Bush himself approved the leaking of classified intelligence gathered before the Iraq War. He didn't let it all leak out. He authorized a trickle of information buttressing his case that Saddam Hussein had been a nuclear threat. Information that had already been discredited.

Apparently what we need is for Mommy to protect us from the bad old terrorists. Or Alan Alda. Or something. But not Bush.

clarice

Here's a good rundown of the articles (largely WaPo and NYT ) about the intelligence that led us to bomb El Shifa..Read and laugh because (a) there's a lot of sympathetic head nodding about the normal shortcomings of intelligence and (b) clearly a lot os selectively disclosed classifed information supporting the President (Clinton's) decision to bomb the aspirin plant on the basis of such, then understandable, shortcomings of intelligence.

AST

You'd think they'd be grateful that the declassification prevented Wilson's getting away with a lie. Apparently, they didn't want to know the other side of his accusations.

It's pretty hard to believe that they're now so scrupulous about declassifying papers. Weren't the Pentagon Papers classified? Did the Times go through any such analysis as they advocate here? Was that a good leak or a bad leak? See: http://partners.nytimes.com/books/97/04/13/reviews/970413.13clymert.html

I'm just sick of this whole story. They don't seem to know that they ceased to resemble an objective news organization long ago. Now it's just a suspense tale, and a pretty boring one to boot.

Dave

Clarice, is th this the intended URL?

clarice

Wrong page--go here. http://tinyurl.com/rsqop

fletcher hudson

If the Times were really interested in getting to the truth in "this sorry mess" they would sponsor a panel discussion of all reporters who have been subpeoned so they could tell the public what they know. I am amazed that no one--to my knowlwdge-- has ever called upon Russert to give his side of the Libby conversation. Why haven't pro-bush editorial writers and commentators done so?
Why doesn't some guest--when Russert brings the subject up-- ask him to first tell us what he knows? Why hasn't Imus asked him about about it?

Seixon

I think their position can be summed up as: We Can Leak, Not You

larwyn

Fletcher,
Great questions.

I think the answer to the last one can be answer by the attacks on Chris Matthews when he just approached the line the LEFT has set.

And this is a small community, these journos, and I am sure all have files on each others "eccentricities" at the ready.

The RePubs politicians don't challenge Russert - they want the face time and he rarely invites the real fighters like Duncan Hunter who don't back down.

Dwilkers

"Even a president cannot wave a wand and announce that an intelligence report is declassified."

This is false.

Classification is owned by the executive branch in this country, and the executive is embodied in the elected president. Anyone that thinks the president cannot declassify at his own pleasure is mistaken. McCarthy had a post up on this on NRO a couple of weeks ago. In addition to being well, stupid, this is mendacious on its face since the NYTimes surely knows this very well.

And what is this anyway? The WaPo editorializes "Good Leak" so the NYTimes has to retort with "Bad Leak"? Is this a farkin schoolyard?

"Am not." "Are too." "Am not."

OK then. Thank you for that NYTimes editors.

Florence Schmieg

The NYTimes has become very slipshod in its fact checking for its news pages and its editorial page is so partisan even Democrats are amazed. The Washington Post editorial page has far better analysis and a variety of writers. Much, much better than the Times.

I made the mistake of watching Hardball Friday night. The Bush administration is dead, dead, dead they crowed (even the so called republicans on the panel Carlson and Scarborough). It was just horrible. It was (hope I don't offend anyone) political masturbation.

clarice

Actually, Florence you have explained what Matthews is doing better than anyone else ever has.

TallDave

Even Joe Wilson cannot wave a wand and magically transform a trip to Niger ordered by his wife that supported the claim Iraq was seeking uranium in Niger into one ordered by Cheney that debunked the notion.

But the New York Times CAN!!

"The Politics of Truth," indeed.

clarice

We are know this I think, but the NY Sun makes this clear--the INR report which disclosed that Plame worked at the CIA and recommended her husband for the Mission does not indicate her status there was a secret(classified or covert):
[quote]Contrary to published reports, a State Department memorandum at the center of the investigation into the leak of the name of a CIA operative, Valerie Plame, appears to offer no particular indication that Ms. Plame's role at the agency was classified or covert.

The memo, drafted by the then head of the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research and addressed to the then secretary of state, Colin Powell, was carried aboard Air Force One as President Bush departed for Africa in July 2003. A declassified version of the document was obtained by The New York Sun on Saturday.

A special prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, is investigating whether White House officials illegally leaked Ms. Plame's CIA connection as part of a campaign to rebut or retaliate against her husband, Joseph Wilson IV, a former ambassador who traveled to Niger in 2002 at the CIA's request to look into reports that Iraq was seeking to buy uranium there. He later became an open critic of the administration.

Mr. Fitzgerald's investigators have attempted to establish a precise chain of custody for the document because it is one way some White House officials might have learned that Mr. Wilson's wife was a CIA employee, working in the agency's weapons of mass destruction division.

"In a February 19, 2002, meeting convened by Valerie Wilson, a CIA WMD manager, and the wife of Joe Wilson, he previewed his plans and rationale for going to Niger," the memo from the State Department intelligence chief, Carl Ford Jr., said. Mr. Ford also drafted an earlier version of the memo, addressed to an undersecretary of state, Marc Grossman. Mr. Grossman apparently sought the information about Mr. Wilson's trip after receiving inquiries from the then chief of staff to Vice President (more)[/quote]http://www.nysun.com/article/31062

TallDave

appears to offer no particular indication that Ms. Plame's role at the agency was classified or covert

And that's not even news. Everyone right of DKos has already admitted the obvious fact that undercover agents don't drive to freakin CIA headquarters every day.

The whole DOJ referral stinks of a political vendetta.

steve

I beg you, please don't use the word "thusly" -- the correct word is "thus."

Nash

One might think that the proprietor of this site could hold on to to the not-subtle distinction between what editorials can say in 700 words or less while still having a chance of communicating anything and what they they would never achieve if eternally held to TM's legalistically prissy parsing of meanings.

For in every universe except the one with TM as godhead, the NYT's words are UNDERSTOOD to be talking about "ought" and not "legally permitted." It is entirely sad that this remains beyond TM's ability to comprehend.

Patrick R. Sullivan

'Plame is the whistleblower here, I think.'

If she was, then Fitz should have indicted her. It was only the informality of Wilson's CIA connection that allowed him to get away with leaking about his trip to Niger.

Charlie (Colorado)

NYT can't whine and complain whilst withholding information from their readers and Libby's lawyers.

Wanna bet?

drjohn

The NY Times: all the news that's fit to hurt Bush.

And nothing less.

Nash

"I beg you, please don't use the word "thusly" -- the correct word is "thus.""

Steve, we need to get you to quit using that abridged dictionary. Funk & Wagnall's New "Standard" shows

thusly (adverb) (humorous): In this manner

Gary Maxwell

No Nash, most universes totally ignor the the NYT so that comprehension ( or understood ) is never broached. Sorry for you that your universe is the outlier.

Specter

Nash,

huh?

ed

The logic used in that Sun piece can be whittled down to this: Her status couldn't be dicerned as secret because the whole document was secret.

Explain how that makes any sense. Kudos to the Sun for posting the actual documents though

Cecil Turner

What a stinker. This thing has more holes than Swiss cheese.

But the version of the facts that Mr. Libby was authorized to divulge was so distorted that it seems more like disinformation than any sincere attempt to inform the public.

Ah, the "Libby misrepresented the NIE" story, since debunked, lives on at the Times. "Disinformation" indeed (projection anyone?).

He permitted a leak of cherry-picked portions of the report.

This "cherry-picked" meme continues the lie started by Murray Waas that the released NIE doesn't include caveats known to the Administration. They ought to be called on it every time they spout it (ditto for Waas).

In this case, Mr. Libby was authorized to talk about claims that Iraq had tried to buy uranium for nuclear weapons in Africa and not more reliable evidence to the contrary.

Horse-puckey. The report had all the caveats in it, and nobody knows exactly what Libby was authorized to discuss.

Even a president cannot wave a wand and announce that an intelligence report is declassified.

Continues the "instant declassification" lie, which ignores the fact the declassification process had been ongoing for a month at CIA:

Tenet had agreed to provide "full documentation" of the intelligence material "in regards to Secretary Powell's comments, the president's comments and anybody else's comments." [June 9th, 2003]
The idea that this amounted to a current, aggressive and continuing campaign to build nuclear weapons in 2002 — as Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney called it — is laughable.

And if we just ignore the rest of the report, we can pretend it doesn't say anything like:

How quickly Iraq will obtain its first nuclear weapon depends on when it acquires sufficient weapons-grade fissile material.

If Baghdad acquires sufficient fissile material from abroad it could make a nuclear weapon within several months to a year.

I can't recall reading a more dishonest piece. Kudos to the Times, already pioneers in this area, for broadening their horizons.

Nash

Doing a dude a favor: In which our intrepid correspondent divines a future where our host, the over-worked TM, is forced to blog the complaint "There you go again, NYT, burying the lede." And by so divining, our brave correspondent saves the heroic TM the trouble:

From today's NYT:


General Defends Rumsfeld, With a Caveat
By JIM RUTENBERG

Published: April 17, 2006
WASHINGTON, April 16 — Gen. Richard B. Myers, who retired six months ago as the nation's top military officer, said Sunday that senior administration officials had been wrong to criticize the former Army chief publicly just before the invasion of Iraq for saying the mission could require a much larger force than was ultimately committed.

"He was inappropriately criticized, I believe, for speaking out," General Myers said in an interview on ABC, speaking of the former Army chief of staff, Gen. Eric K. Shinseki, who is retired.

And here's where the nifty oracle-ification by our wonderous correspondent occurs in assisting TM:

Gee guys, you don't get to the important point until graf 3:

General Myers's comment came with otherwise supportive words for Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, who is facing calls to resign from several retired generals, some of whom were involved in the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

Because, and TM would certainly be forced to say this if I hadn't saved him the effort, it's far more newsworthy that a just-retired-from-the-Bush Admin official got "otherwise supportive" with his words than that he chided this Admin for dissing a respected officer.

Common NYT, what's up with that?

Nash

No Nash, most universes totally ignor the the NYT so that comprehension ( or understood ) is never broached. Sorry for you that your universe is the outlier.

Gary post-modernizes Yogi's "now I know why no one eats here anymore...there's never enough room to park."

You might want to go tell it on the mountains of TM's universe, then, Gary. Seems he didn't get your memo.

Bill in AZ

er... jealous of TM, Nash? it's showing...

owl

Just keep thinking that Berger learned the lesson of the Nixon tapes to the extent he was willing to gamble with socks and scissors...so thinking about some of the questions concerning the NYT. So many notes in that place and I keep thinking that the dog ate them by now. Miller's hostile editor? Kristoff's?

TallDave

Nash:

the NYT's words are UNDERSTOOD to be talking about "ought" and not "legally permitted."

No. they aren't. Read it again. They conflate "leak" (illegal) with Presidential discretion to declassify (not illegal). Then they spend a couple dozen of their precious 700 words explaining all the procedures lower officials use for determining what should be declassified. Then they spend more of those words pretending they don't know that field reports don't go straight to the President in two days. Then they demand the transcripts from a legal proceeding.

The point of this obfuscation is to smear the distinction so they can pretend Bush did something wrong, as opposed to something that merely undermines the NYT agenda of calling Bush a liar.

Cecil Turner

Talk about burying the lede, this calls for a red star cluster: THE SUN PUBLISHED THE INR MEMO!! We've been waiting for this thing for a couple years, now. Unfortunately, they appear to've snipped some of the juicy bits, and just plain took an eraser to some of the classification markings . . . but still.

TM

...please don't use the word "thusly"

But I'm hooked!

They'll have to pry "thusly" from my cold, dead dictionary.

Dwilkers

My personal favorite is "irregardless" which has now managed to enter the dictionary through common use.

topsecretk9

He permitted a leak of cherry-picked portions of the report.

This "cherry-picked" meme continues the lie started by Murray Waas that the released NIE doesn't include caveats known to the Administration. They ought to be called on it every time they spout it (ditto for Waas).

They have a history of cherry picking these lefty memes and getting burned, sort of like "Groundhog Day"...ask Paul Krugman

ed

the sun had a second memo link at the end of the article earlier today. anyone know what it was and what happened to it?

topsecretk9

INR From The Sun:

"In a February 19, 2002, meeting convened by Valerie Wilson, a CIA WMD manager, and the wife of Joe Wilson, he previewed his plans and rationale for going to Niger,"

Gee, excuse the Admin. for thinking Valerie arranged for Joe the trip to Niger but previewed his plans and rationale for going to Niger doesn't this just sound like he was encouraging and selling the trip?

ajacksonian

Just a quickie: the President can declassify with the stroke of a pen through the classification marking. He IS the authority on that and need go through no other process.

Similarly CinC's at the various Commands have similar authority, as delegated to them by the President. After a Hurricane Andrew, I believe it was, a classified image map was declassified by the Theater Commander with a pair of scissors to remove the top and bottom markings and then promptly shown on CNN within the hour of its delivery.

The Executive cannot *leak* information. It is automatically declassified upon its release to the public via *any* channels the Executive chooses. Be it on national television or via an underling to answer questions.

Can the Times get some reporters and editors that actually *know* these things?

topsecretk9

More SUn:

The gist of Mr. Ford's memo has been previously reported in news accounts, but it has not been quoted from directly. In addition, the early leaks about the memo were selective, perhaps deliberately so.

NO, **leaks** about the memo deliberately selective? NO, get out. ::sacrasm off::

clarice

And lose their faithful readers who pay to be shielded from the truth,a jacksonian?

azredneck

TM--re:hooked

Now that's funny! I don't care who you are.

Appalled Moderate


Cecil:

I have to say I would not have known she was covert from this, though I might know that "WMD Managers" at the CIA are not customarily out in the open.

I think, though, the relevence of this story is diluted, since if there is one thing that is clear, Libby heard about Plame's status on multiple occasions.

Wonder if any of the papers that ran the original articip;es will be running prominent corrections.

topsecretk9

Mr. Wilson told the Sun yesterday that the State Department's account of how his trip was arranged was "absolutely inaccurate."

"The meeting was not convened by my wife," the former ambassador said. "She had, as it now turns out, the misfortune of having escorted me into the building. ... She left before the meeting started." He also said that the subject of his going to Niger did not arise until halfway through the session.

Isn't the slightest bit odd, that while these things remain "classified" or selectively leaked, Wilson touts them as proof of knowledge about his trip

At the beginning of the month, Wilson just crudely called Condi a "bald face liar" because he insisted Condi has this INR report in her personal file.

And like clockwork, when these memos and reports are revealed Wilson calls them "absolutely inaccurate." Let me guess, when the actual CIA report on his trip is released it will be "absolutely inaccurate." too.

A bigger man would know when to be embarrassed, because some dog just ate his "smear campaign" meme

clarice

The fact that it was barely a nanosecond from the time the VP's requested more info on Iraq's effort to procure uranium and the memo recommending Wilson for the Mission and his being dispatched to Niger is proof to me that this was a set up long in the works. Anyone who has worked in the government knows exactly what I mean.

topsecretk9

Mr. Wilson told the Sun yesterday that the State Department's account of how his trip was arranged was "absolutely inaccurate.

Well, since the INR is "absolutely inaccurate" I guess Wilson is preparing his apology letters to everyone he accused of relying on this report, in oh, like every other interview and I am awaiting his newest meme...

The DoS purposely prepared an "absolutely inaccurate" report to purposely characterize Wilson "absolutely inaccurate"...so it was the DoS that smeared him ::fade out sinister music::

Catch22

I gather from this comment, when you cant really defend the administration, "attack the messenger" and that may serve as a distraction.

Too bad you seem to hold the NYT to a higher standard than President of the United States, and seem more interested in holding them accountable than the U.S. Government.

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/columns/pressingissues_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002344807

"Then, the two reporters debunked their own paper's “public service” defense by observing “that the evidence Cheney and Libby selected to share with reporters had been disproved months before." Libby, allegedly at Cheney’s direction, "sought out at least three reporters to bolster the discredited uranium allegation.” In other words: Far from serving our citizens, the White House was misleading and manipulating them.

topsecretk9

I defend the Admin.. they should have selectively declassified the INR memo so we could know what a joke Wilson is...as it is they didn't and he has taken that as license to continue his hoax on you

Specter

catch22,

The troll said - who's that trip, trip, trappin' across my bridge?

Did you just wake up from like two years of napping or what? Wilson said Bush lied when he said Iraq was "seeking" uranium. Bush didn't - it was true - even from Wilson's own reports.

Cecil Turner

Too bad you seem to hold the NYT to a higher standard than President of the United States, and seem more interested in holding them accountable than the U.S. Government.

The problem with your assertion is that Gellman and Linzer told a lie about the US Government, you (and E&P) swallowed it whole, and now suggest taking the Times to task for repeating it is inappropriate. In fact, we hold all to the same standard, and you are failing it.

Specter

catch,

the whole point here is not what we know, or at least think we know now (check out project harmony data), but what was known then. It's not good to armchair quaterback at this point.

Cecil Turner

I have to say I would not have known she was covert from this, though I might know that "WMD Managers" at the CIA are not customarily out in the open.

I don't know what a "CIA WMD manager" is (and it appears to be a description, rather than a title, so I suspect it only exists in Mr Ford's lexicon). But it seems to me this is close to the worst possible document to support the "must have known she was classified" theory:

  • it's in a S paragraph in a TS document;
  • that paragraph is obviously background;
  • her identity is mentioned in passing;
  • the statement is parenthetical; and
  • other, more important (and obviously classified) bits are in the same paragraph.
Further, if the contention is that it was briefed the month previous to Libby from Mr Grossman, it's hard to see why he'd retain that particular fact (considering Wilson's identity wasn't public at the time).

Further, since we now know the actual leak came from someone at State (Armitage or Grossman, probably), the latest revelations that Mr Grossman is making perhaps overstated claims very interesting. Especially as it is now clear he was very much a part of the leak (and perhaps, if he is Novak's source, the main part).

ajacksonian

clarice - If they wanted to lose their readership they could just publish the Constitution once a year.

That would be a *real* shocker.

Like Congress, I don't believe anyone on the Times' staff has actually *read* the document beyond reading Amendment I.

TM

...the NYT's words are UNDERSTOOD to be talking about "ought" and not "legally permitted."

Really? Since they were (as best I know) ripping off Arianna, let's see what she wrote:

Expert Addington told Libby not to worry, explaining that Bush's "authorization to publicly disclose a document amounted to a declassification of the document." Call it Addington's Theory of Presidential Magic: Take a classified document. Wave the president's wand over it. Say the secret word ("WHIG-y, WHIG-y"). And, presto-chango, the super secret info is now a Judy Miller exclusive!

Not a clear endorsement of the legality of it.

Well - I wonder if I could search high and low and find some hold-outs who doubt the legality.

But who cares - all the TImes needs to do is change two words:

Even a president cannot [should not] wave a wand and announce that an intelligence report is declassified.

To declassify an intelligence document, officials have to [ought to] decide...

The truth can be succinct, even in TimesWorld.

Gary Maxwell

Anyone who has worked in the government knows exactly what I mean.

Well Clarice if you mean that even requisitions for paper clips must be in tripli cate and contain multiple signatures in advance, yes I know exactly what you mean. If you mean every is very important and is being worked on in real time, but quitting time is 4:30 PM and that leads to a line at the elevators and exiting the the parking garage two minutes later, I know exactly what you mean.

Nothing happens in the blink of an eye, and when spending even small amounts of money is involved, the task gets doubly complicated.

James

"The meeting was not convened by my wife," the former ambassador said. "She had, as it now turns out, the misfortune of having escorted me into the building. ... She left before the meeting started." He also said that the subject of his going to Niger did not arise until halfway through the session.

Misfortune? He makes it sound like he just happened to be walking by Langley, and his wife spotted him standing out in the rain and let him in.

JM Hanes

Nash

"For in every universe except the one with TM as godhead, the NYT's words are UNDERSTOOD to be talking about "ought" and not "legally permitted."

Surely this can't be the only universe left where words still have actual definitions! Did you really just defend substituting "cannot" for "ought not" as a necessary economy of words? Relying on undocumented "understandings" seems to be decidedly more universe specific than the more reliable practice of assuming professional wordsmyths mean what they say. I'm just debating whether to call it the Dr. Seuss Dodge, or the Horton Gambit.

Considering just how little anyone actually knows about the declassification at issue, and just how much of what they thought they knew was wrong, I'd say the ground is equally unsound whether the Times meant what they said or what you say they meant.

Javani

"Did the Times consider more forthright descriptions, such as "Kerry adviser bashes Bush"

Why would they? Was Team Bush pushing that fact?

Bushy's public relations vaunted public relations team is incompetent, was incompetent, and regaled as brilliant by Democratic public relations team not wanting to advertise the facts that they were even more incompetent.

kim

I wonder if she regrets 'the misfortune of escorting him into the building'? Or if he regrets saying so.
=====================================

kim

I'm flattered.

I'm tremendously curious what is going on in Val's head. Earlier in the discussion of 'classification' someone pointed out that her role as 'WMD manager' was classified, and I remember earlier speculation that she may still be an 'unknown quantity' or that she is just going deeper.

One thing for sure, whether the CIA recognized it in her innately, or developed it, she has a talent for secrecy, or perhaps its pose, partial nudity.
=======================================

JM Hanes

"partial nudity"

AKA a modified limited hangout?

Neo

I have come to believe that the NYT will long regret ever printing this editorial.

To avoid having this editorial repeatily thrown in their faces, the NYT will either have to swear off any and all "leaks" of classified information (hardly) or renounce this editorial as a "fit of insanity."

One is left to wonder if the NYT's post-Lenten sacrifice should be blessed by the White House, who would aid them by giving them only the final press releases, cutting off access to "deep background" information, and thus aiding them as they give up "classified" leaks.

kim

The captain of the mothership 'Reality-Based', has himself lost it. He is so captivated by what he believes is his operation's ability to make news, that he neglects reporting it.
=======================================

maryrose

NYT is totally compromised now. Is anyone still reading that paper?

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