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April 21, 2006

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Syl

Obviously McCarthy didn't understand the concept that if you have a secret prison for your terrorists you don't have to do renditions.

Bush is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

I guess the idea is that Kahlid Sheik Mohammed was just a poor misunderstood fellow who deserved a lawyer to tell him not to speak or he would incriminate himself. His daddy probably abused him so he grew up to be a poor widdle tewowist.

Lew Clark

Anyone with an IQ above room temperature can see the difference between a government employee with access to classified information divulging that information without authority to do so, and the declassification of information by an authorized official to provide information to the public. Number one is a serious crime, number two is a government in a free society exercising it's responsibility to informing the people governed. Anyone with an IQ above room temperature can see the difference. This will be a great opportunity to see if anyone on the left has an IQ above room temperature.

Sue

After strolling through blogosphere, I've noticed a growing trend. Did Priest get her Pulitzer for a story that was planted to catch a leaker? Seems no one can find the prisons. Wouldn't that be a kicker? Do you give back your Pulitzer if the story you won it for is false? Things that make you go hmmm....

Specter

Now let's see. If I was caught leaking classified government secrets to the press do you think I would just lose my job? Or would I have hordes of FBI types rummaging through my entire house and office while I was led away in shackles? Hmmmm....I guess there are some perks associated with working for the agency that is supposed to protect the secrets.....

Fredrik Nyman

Sue -- ouch!

Never thought of that. I don't think it's likely, but boy do I find myself wishing it to be true. How very devious, yet elegant, it would be to find a leaker by planting a "too good to check" story.

ghostcat

Classic Negroponte, though.

Sue
"It's a terrible situation when the president approves the leak of a highly classified N.I.E., and people at the agency see management as so disastrous that they feel compelled to talk to the press," said one former C.I.A. officer with extensive overseas experience.

Let me guess. Larry Johnson and/or one of his VIP pals. ::major eyeroll::

Do these people understand that Bush was elected and as a result of that election he gets to make foreign policy decisions? And what the hell does management have to do with the leaking of a secret prison? Unless the management referred to is Bush. If so, I reiterate my first point, Bush is the elected official. It is up to us to remove him from office, not some unelected, pissed off, Kerry-ite, career CIA agent.

clarice

I want to know if there's any connection wilary? With the Plame referral?th the Berger burg

ghostcat

Careerists think it THEIR job to set policy when a Republican is President. They do what they can to hold the fort until its legitimate owners (Democrats) return.

clarice

Sorry--problems with this laptap composing.Any connection with the Berger burglary? Any connection with the CIA referral? Any connection with Rockefeller and the NSA leak?

This is so fantastic..

Sue

They can't find the prisons. And they are looking. Europe is pissed and wants those prisons found so Bush can be properly strung up on the nearest street corner. Why can't they find those prisons? Maybe Priest could look for them.

clarice

I think a lot of mysteries are about to come unshrouded.

Sue

Clarice,

I'm glad you re-posted. I thought we were witnessing your drowning or something. Sounded like the last gurgles before you didn't come up for air anymore. ::grin::

clarice

If it was a sting--it's a three fer:Treacherous opponents; credulous enemies and a press that was in their pockets. (And another black eye for the Pulitizer.)

Rick Ballard

Mary McCarthy has interesting connections. Berger and Beers - whodathunk?

clarice

Sue==I am the most pathetical techno klutz in the world. (Well, my old neighbor I.F. Stone was worse but he had my then ten year old son to bail him out and I don't.)

Specter

Please...please.....I promise I'll stop fill in the blank if only you'll let it be a sting....

Sue

Well, the sting idea isn't mine. I'm just sort of buying it for the moment. Lots of bloggers out there working that angle and I found it intriguing.

Sue

Specter,

Can you imagine the roar from MSM if this was a sting? They will go beserk. I'm with ya'...it would be a sight to behold.

clarice

It may well be..and if it is, she's been on the fire for a while before the firing was announced..and if that's true, I suppose she'd already talked and turned.

Specter

It would be fun....And just think...we could prove that you can lead the MSM to water and you can make them drink.....

TM

Oh, Sue started the ball rolling on the mcCarthy's contributions, so maybe she can check my work - I found a $5,000 from MAry to the Ohio Dems in 2004. The employer is the CISI, but I am wondering if somehow I am seeing a cumulative year-to-date rather than new money.

Anyway, with 2 K each from hubby and wife for Kerry and 5 k here, that is lots of money, one might think.

clarice

The Goddess is already planning the celebrations--Secret of course, but gather kindling, there are a lot of bonefires being planned.

clarice


Maybe they got a grant or something..That's an enormous amount of money for people in their income bracket.

clarice

Did I say BonEfires..or well, maybe that, too?

ghostcat

That there was an intricate web of treachery is pretty obvious. Ms. Mary Mc was almost certainly part of that web, probably close to its center. There was also a Clarke strand, a Wilson/Plame strand, etc.

Berger may have been the master weaver.

richard mcenroe

So lemme get this straight. The leakers WORKED IN THE IG'S OFFICE?

qui custodes ipset custodias...?

Sue

Tom,

I think she gave $5,000 to the Democratic Party of http://opensecrets.org/indivs/search.asp?NumOfThou=0&txtName=mccarthy%2C+mary+o.&txtState=%28all+states%29&txtZip=&txtEmploy=&txtCand=&txt2006=Y&txt2004=Y&Order=N>Ohio. It shows her $2k separate to Kerry.

topsecretk9

Regardless of who they've contributed to, the action in and of itself stands on it own.

topsecretk9

I am late to the party, but they took the bio down? WOW.

SunnyDay

bonefires - I like it!!

Macsmind is trying to make the connections you seek, follow his links in the Rockefeller post.

http://macsmind.blogspot.com/

it was linked earlier, I think.

AJStrata

Mac Ranger is thinking McCarthy will turn evidence..

I agree with him. And there are more to come. The NY Times is reporting McCarthy leaked a lot, and on various topics.

http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/1666

Cheers, AJStrata

clarice

I do so want to see that referral letter. Are the Wilson's still planning to attend the WH Correspondents Dinner?

Sue

In addition to Mrs. McCarthy's contributions, we have Mr. McCarthy contributing http://opensecrets.org/indivs/search.asp?NumOfThou=0&txtName=mccarthy%2C+michael&txtState=MD&txtZip=20817&txtEmploy=&txtCand=&txt2004=Y&txt2002=Y&Order=N>$2500

clarice

Thanks, AJ. I'm out of town and only your emails clued me in when I got to the PC.I take it you agree that wouldn't announce her arrest until they got everything they thought she had..esp if this were a sting?

SunnyDay

I like his poker player theory. It fits with the "sting" theory about today's firing.

"If you're going to attempt a coup..."

Sue

How odd. The only year that I can find that Mr. & Mrs. McCarthy made political contributions is the year 2004. And that year the 2 of them gave $9500 to democrats.

ghostcat

Re: Turning Evidence -

She's lost her generous pension, which she nearly had in hand, and his biz doesn't seem that prosperous. Absent a bailout, they're in a world of hurt. Which is to say, I agree she's likely to cop a plea.

ghostcat

PS -

Did I miss something? Has Ms. McCarthy actually been arrested?

brenda taylor

seems like these people are buying there positions on the demo ticket

Sue

I'm sorry. I can't add. In 2004, they gave http://opensecrets.org/indivs/search.asp?NumOfThou=0&txtName=mccarthy&txtState=MD&txtZip=20817&txtEmploy=&txtCand=&txt2004=Y&txt2002=Y&Order=N>$10,000 to democrats. In 2002 it looks like they only managed to give $250. Weird. Just plain weird.

ghostcat

Not weird. Desperate. Suspicious.

Specter

No bailout - they will get to make speeches for $12.5K each to Mother Sheehan fans - or at least he will.

topsecretk9

Sue

on the contribution...

Mikulski, Barbara A is who Russell Tice, The NSA'er, first approached.

Sue

Okay. If I were a suspicious sort of person, and I am, I would want to know why all of the sudden in 2004 they decided to start making political donations to the tune of $10,000. And my next question would be, was it your money? Or were you just helping out a 'friend' and making the donation in your name. The limit for gift tax in 2004 was $10,000. Anything over that amount and you have to report it to the IRS.

clarice

Start checking all the grants Tides Foundation made in 2004.

Fredrik Nyman

ghostcat --

A lot of people have speculated about what's essentially a conspiracy; the CIA's war on Bush, if you will, and identified likely key players whose connections go way back; Joe Wilson, Richard Clarke, Sandy Berger, Rand Beers etc. Ms. McCarthy fits in very nicely in this, since she was closely associated to all the key players.

It will be very interesting to see what else will come out in the coming days. I suspect that Ms. McCarthy has already turned state's evidence, and that her testimony will put a lot of people in a world of hurt.

clarice

Also Soros' One World outfit--can't remember its exact name--probably went to her for some research as CSIS..or some other such dodge. If we can wrap into this these tax exempt foundations working for theanti-American nutsos of this world, it'll be too wonderful for words..

Sue

Okay, I don't usually indulge in conspiracy theories, but this is just too weird. What are the odds that these people donated $10,000 to democrats in 2004 when the only other time they made a political donation was in 2002 for $250? And if you wanted to spread your money around, just make sure you stay under the $10,000 (in 2004, it is now $11,000) and the IRS is not involved. Free money. No taxes. Income or gift.

ghostcat

I believe Russell Tice was so foolish as to tell a reporter that careerists, not elected leaders, should make national policy.

Sue

Clarice,

I don't know how to check it from that end. I think if they passed it out through a foundation, it would show up. I'm talking personal money. Gift money.

Sue

A foundation or a 501(c) would have to file a 990 with the IRS. It would show up that way. It wouldn't though if it was personal money.

Sue

Does anyone know what state Larry Johnson lives in?

Rick Ballard

I wonder if McCarthy burped Priest after she fed her? I also wonder who Priest claimed as her "second source" for her amazing investigative regurgitation on the government safe houses for terrorist interrogation (AKA "Secret Prisons").

They need to change the name to Pulitzer Press Slut Prize (regardless of the gender of the recipient).

ghostcat

Here's my pet theory: McCarthy, et al, were scared sheetless that a second Bush term would uncover their first-term shenanigans. So they scraped up every dollar they could to help elect Kerry. And the "et als" were legion.

But I don't rule out something more nefarious, like Soros money.

Rick Ballard

Sue,

Utter confusion alternating with malice and rage.

Squiggler

The limit on political contributions, so I thought, is $1000 per person primary and $1000 for general election, $2000 total. How'd they give so much? And how the heck do they live on her salary and a landscaper's wage with an $850,000 house in the highest priced living area in the country almost. What could her top salary be, about maybe $65,000 or so, does anyone know what her paygrade was? Government employment isn't exactly the road to riches when you are salary dependent.

TM ... I saw the first Breaking News and it was on Fox by Brett Baer. Andrea Mitchell's report came about 20 to 25 minutes later, although that doesn't necessarily mean she didn't have it first, she just wasn't the first on air with it.

larwyn

Welcome back Goddess,
First question I asked when the fact that she worked in IG office of CIA is:

Would that office have been ones to send referrals on to DOJ.

That would explain why leaks that injure the WH got put into Tenet's TO SIGN PILE.

After Ghostcat and Sue came up with donations - even at lower level of $4,000 - and someone suggested they were "perhaps funded" I asked:
= if they had children?
= where did they work?

And connections to DEMS al la Time's Cooper.

FOR THAT
JEFF TOLD ME I WAS SICK!

What is sick is a coup by the CIA & STATE LEFTIES TO STEAL AN ELECTION.

WONDER WHERE MRS & MRS. MCCARTHY WERE GOING TO SHOW UP IN KEDWARDS
ADMIN.

Someone also saw connection with Rocky and Molohan - both W.Va. -
14 million is a very nice slush fund - good WAM!

AND THE DISMISSAL OF THE LEAK WAS
LEAKED!

I questioned the release of this on a Friday.

But see that they leaked it while LSM has GAS PRICE STORY to run with 24/7 and on SUNDAY SHOWS -
they'll have full spin developed by next week.

Praying Mac is right on.

Glad you are back.

Gotta pick slow night for FNL
- Friday too exciting lately,
but do want to know how our hero is taking his demotion.

Rick Ballard

ghostcat,

It could be as simple as a roll of the dice. Kerry wins and they are on his honor roll. I'm not sure why Clinton appointees are still in any position of responsiblity to begin with and she may have been reading handwriting on the wall. I know that Bush had other things aside from appointments on his mind but these Clinton leftovers need to be dumped. They've gone bad and are stinking up the place.

MayBee

Want to know something hilarious?

On one fund raising website, her address comes up as Wilson Lane.

topsecretk9

Sue

Maybe you answered on old thread, but did you make the connection with Daniel Benjamin who was also on the NSC on CSIS site? Do remember what story he was quoted vouching for his absent minded friend?

Rick Ballard

Squiggler,

Landscape architect - not landscaper, although good money can be made at either. I would imagine her pay was over six figures and it would be no surprise at all if his was too. They are not poverty stricken by any means and a $10K bet is not unreasonable.

Sue

I thought the limit was $1,000 also. But the site lists them both as donating $2,000 each to John Kerry. $4,000 total.

Sue

Top,

No. Who is he?

ghostcat

Sue -

I found a Larry C. Johnson in "Balmer" MD and another in Hayes VA (Eastern Shore). Both seem unlikely to be your guy.

topsecretk9

--"His thoroughness, his relentlessness, his work ethic are legendary," says terrorism expert Daniel Benjamin, a former member of the National Security Council.--

Friend

From 1994 to 1999, he served on the National Security Council staff.

topsecretk9

oops, CSIS BIO, again.

Rick Ballard

FEC Limits

$2,100 per federal candidate per election with primary and general election counted separately.

Squiggler

Sue I think they can each give $2000, but not more than a $1000 during each election cycle. One cycle being the Primaries, the other being the General Elections. At least that's the way it used to be.

Sue

My eyes are crossing.

I'll be back...tomorrow. ::grin::

Squiggler

Rick, do you know what her pay grade was? I would find it very hard to believe she would make anywhere close to six figures. Maybe my $65,000 is lowball, but I would doubt it was over $80,000. My nephew is a PhD. at Treasury in his fourth year and he hasn't even reached $55,000 yet. He has to share a house with five roomates just to make ends meet in DC.

MayBee

Guess you guys already had the Wilson Lane address.
Still, it is pretty funny to me.

Perhaps all the money for Kerry is to buddy on up to Berger. He would probably had a position with Kerry, right? And Berger gave her her appointment.

Squiggler

The following from Captains's Quarters ...

Rick Moran at Right Wing Nuthouse wonders if the story on CIA detention centers might not have been a sting operation to unmask leakers at Langley. The possibility comes up because on the same day that the CIA terminated Mary McCarthy for her communications to the press, the New York Times reports that European investigators cannot find any evidence that the detention centers ever existed:

The European Union's antiterrorism chief told a hearing on Thursday that he had not been able to prove that secret C.I.A. prisons existed in Europe.

"We've heard all kinds of allegations," the official, Gijs de Vries, said before a committee of the European Parliament. "It does not appear to be proven beyond reasonable doubt." ...

Mr. de Vries said the European Parliament investigation had not uncovered rights abuses despite more than 50 hours of testimony by rights advocates and people who say they were abducted by C.I.A. agents. A similar investigation by the Council of Europe, the European human rights agency, came to the same conclusion in January — though the leader of that inquiry, Dick Marty, a Swiss senator, said then that there were enough "indications" to justify continuing the investigation.

A number of legislators on Thursday challenged Mr. de Vries for not taking seriously earlier testimony before the committee of a German and a Canadian who gave accounts of being kidnapped and kept imprisoned by foreign agents.

The committee also heard Thursday from a former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, Craig Murray, who said: "I can attest to the willingness of the U.S. and the U.K. to obtain intelligence that was got under torture in Uzbekistan. If they were not willing, then rendition prisons could not have existed." But Mr. Murray, who was recalled from his job in 2004 after condemning the Uzbek authorities and criticizing the British and American governments, told the committee that he had no proof that detention centers existed within Europe.

He said he had witnessed such rendition programs in Uzbekistan, but he seemed to back up Mr. de Vries's assertion when he said he was not aware of anyone being taken to Uzbekistan from Europe. "As far as I know, that never happened," he said.

topsecretk9

THIS
is interesting...Mary Mcarthy, Daniel Benjamin, Neal Katyal, Seymore Hersh, DANA PREIST...TO NAME A FEW

Speakers and Associates

The Center is committed to enabling experts in the fields of security, democratization and counterterrorism to come together and exchange ideas in an open format alongside legal scholars and advisors. In order to facilitate the Center's exposure to developments in these fields, the Center relies on a wide circle of individuals. Their contributions have included advising the executive director, participating in the Law and Security Colloquium, submitting periodic policy briefs and articles for Center publications as well as contributing to our open forums, roundtables and conferences.

topsecretk9

I think the above link just nails he association (McCarthy - Priest) and lends to the notion she gave the Abu Garib info to Seymour (spelled incorrectly above) Hersh...don't you think?

topsecretk9

crud. sorry.

Rick Ballard

Squiggler,

Her appoint was as "Special Assistant to the President". Here is a list of current pay scales and she was also named as a Senior Director for Intelligence. She's getting six figures.

Squiggler

Be still my heart. I just read on AJ Strata's site (http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/1434) that Durbin and Rockefeller and staff could be subject to lie detector tests. I think the bottom of the NSA leak case will reveal Rockefeller and I just plain dislike Durbin, so to me this would be a red letter day. One can only hope.

Squiggler

Okay, thanks Rick. She was higher ranked then I thought.

topsecretk9

Rick

Notice the above NYU Security associate link above that McCarthy and Priest were both members of is much like the Aspen Strategy Group - Kristof-Scowcroft-J

topsecretk9

well that was weird...continue

--Notice the above NYU Security associate link above that McCarthy and Priest were both members of is much like the Aspen Strategy Group - Kristof-Scowcroft-JMiller-Armitage association and "group" merger organization

Rick Ballard

Top,

Yeah, lots of cozy clubs in DC. I would be careful about the sting idea for the moment. It might be but it must be remembered that "Secret Prisons" is pressspeak like "intercepting enemy communication" is "domestic eaves dropping". The press invents terms all the time. If we weren't using safe houses in foreign countries as places to interrogate terrorists I would be saddened at our incompetence.

It takes a Democrat and a willing press to turn a safe house for interrogation into a "Secret Prison" but that's all it takes.

Seditionist bastards.

MayBee

*** 4/26/04

Mary O. McCarthy, genuine national security expert ***

How can we get this online journal article, linked all over the leftosphere but now a 404:
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/042604Burns/042604burns.html

It's by Margie Burns

kim

Berger, by his thumbs. I'm tellin' you, our security depends on him spilling what he's hiding.
================================

Neuro-conservative

I found the Margie Burns article with the Wayback Machine here.Doesn't">http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/042604Burns/042604burns.html">here.Doesn't look like much, unless I'm missing something.

SunnyDay

try in here:

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports

topsecretk9

Sting?

I do think it is interesting that Daniel Benjamin is "quoted" as a friend of Fitz in the WAPO love letter bio story and then viola -- he was on the NSC with Wilson And McCArthy, and well a member of CSIS with Mcarthy and on the NYU Security thing with McCarthy AND DANA PRIEST (and Hersh)

...and check here and you see Larry and Joe and scroll for Zeyno Baran link and who he's affiliated with (ahem CSIS ahem) and oh, guess who else? --James R. Schlesinger --found here with Mary Mc Carthy...

...in a first blush search...

SunnyDay

I'm old and slow.

Squiggler

I don't know neuro, I find this statement by her quite informative:

"When you have a new agency, you get a new culture."

She should have remembered her own words. Well, if she gets convicted, she'll have lots of time to mull them over.

kim

Do you suppose they waited for the Pulitzers to be announced?
================================

topsecretk9

Oh, and when you look at the Zeyno Baran text copy, ignore the Turkish references...::sarcasm off::

MayBee

Yeah,nothing much in that article.
But this paragraph, in retrospect, is funny:

She is probably the most candid, least defensive, most lucid witness yet. On the idea of creating a new agency to include domestic surveillance, she was refreshingly clear: "I do not recommend a new agency." "When you have a new agency, you get a new culture."

Most candid. (to reporters)
Doesn't want a new agency because it will have a new culture (of not backstabbing the President, I suppose).

Squiggler

TS ... sort of makes that old point about "everyone knew" huh?

Just asking ... do you think one of those highly skilled, highly paid insider attorneys could raise a "conflict of interest" argument on Fitz if all these connections are documented? Seems all too inbred, even for a small town like DC.

MayBee

Oh, I forgot to thank you neuro and sunnyD, for finding that article for me.

topsecretk9

Well Squiggler

Definitely lends to the pretext of why Fitzgerald bought or went for the "whisltblower" route, doesn't it?

Katherine

They can't find the prisons because they moved them to North Africa so Condi Rice could deny their existence during her trip to Europe.

Dana Priest COULD get it wrong, though I haven't know her to, as could Human Rights Watch, as could ABC news, but all three at once? Not bloody likely. Then there are those flight records.

topsecretk9

--They can't find the prisons because they moved them to North Africa --

not sure i'm buying this anyways but, how does one move a prison?

kim

The gleaming one shone softly in the corner, pondering the irony of the most powerful War Secretariat in the history of the world also being the most humane ever, and reeling from attacks on that humanity. The armour enclosed cortical machinery within had always found irony a rich source of strategic political creativity. They yinyang jiu-jitsu to opposo foo. Tort, you are tortiious; torture feasible, beezlebubble. Pulsar pulsa, DanaMara go to hella.
The gleaming and the low hum gradually faded.

He awoke with a start; why the echoing words 'Little on earth as good as a good cop; little in hell as bad as a bad one.

Pulitzei.

Suis.
===================

larwyn

"Do you suppose they waited for the Pulitzers to be announced?"

Kim with the Poker Player Bush and his trusty "demoted" buddy can there be any doubt.

Must be my computer but cannot see the article via the Wayback Machine link?

I need a chart for all these connections - think NYT or WaPo will do a nice one for us?

kim

So, K, your source? And where in N. Africa? Was it Libya; Khadafy's payback for Bush's relieving him of Saddam's nuclear project?

However, prisons are easy to move.
======================

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Wilson/Plame