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April 22, 2006

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Sue

Ahhh...a change the subject kind of guy. Not yet. We are having way too much fun with Mrs. McCarthy. Start your own blog and hit the bid with Condi. ::grin::

larwyn

Chants,
earlier in week, when clarice and company were freeflowing ideas w/o benefit of troll al la HTB, I
wrote "this is great" how do we
whisper on the internet so we don't attract them?

will use lower case an lay off bold and see if that helps to keep the troll count down.

%) ::GRIN:: %) no lol(ing)

windansea

Hit the Bud

When Condo confesses to classified leaks after repeated failed lie detector tests (as McCarthy did) we'll talk

larwyn

Chants,
earlier in week, when clarice and company were freeflowing ideas w/o benefit of troll al la HTB, I
wrote "this is great" how do we
whisper on the internet so we don't attract them?

will use lower case an lay off bold and see if that helps to keep the troll count down.

%) ::GRIN:: %) no lol(ing)

larwyn

robot filter - getting mind of its own??? "I, Robot" at JOM???

topsecretk9

What a flipping joke the NYT's is...how can they let this be the last paragraph in their story...

"It looks to me like Mary is being used as a sacrificial lamb," said Larry Johnson, a former C.I.A. officer who worked for Ms. McCarthy in the agency's Latin America section.

A VIPS BUBBA - VIPPERS ---- AN ORGANIZATION CALLING FOR CIA EMPLOYEES TO LEAK CLASSIFIED INFORMATION

AND THE NYT's DOESN'T THINK THIS IS THE SLIGHTEST BIT PERTINENT TO THE STORY????? OR IRONIC THAT LARRY WOULD CALL HER A SACRIFICIAL LAMB?


Sorry for yelling.

windansea

Condi Condo...heh!

Rick Ballard

Larwyn,

There are so many ways to funnel money that it will be very difficult to establish a trail - if one exists. The husband and the kid are the first two obvious picks. Aside from the Ohio donation I don't think it would be worthwhile but that one really does stink. It really cannot be said that she and her husband did not donate any money previous to '04 either - only that they did not donate enough to make the FEC lists.

The VIPers connection may prove more fruitful. That and the Berger, Beers, Clarke, Wilson clown act.

Squiggler

Someone asked either in this thread or the other on going one on Mary O. McCarthy about McCarthy jumping back and forth between the CIA and a civilian post as evidenced by her listed employment on her campaign donations.

Here is a blurb from the NYT

When the Bush administration took office in 2001, Ms. McCarthy's career seemed to stall. A former Bush administration official who worked with her said that, although she was a career C.I.A. employee, as a holdover from the Clinton administration she was regarded with suspicion and was gradually eased out of her job as senior director for intelligence programs. She left several months into Mr. Bush's first term.

But she did not return immediately to a new assignment at C.I.A. headquarters. She took an extended sabbatical at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a Washington research organization.

There is much more there there.

Patrick R. Sullivan

AJ Strata speculates on McCarthy being a source for Knight Ridder back in June 2003. She also is a very good fit for Walter Pincus back then too.

Remember when The Kid pointed out to us that Pincus was going through contortions to avoid using the pronoun 'he' in attributing quotes to 'a senior CIA analyst'? He thought it could have been Val herself. Now it looks like it was McCarthy.

Rick Ballard

Squiggler,

That would drop her back to a much lower income level and raises suspicions about the source of the wherewithal back to their original level. There's always inheritance money but $10K of nondeductible donations is pretty high for someone at her current level. Nice catch.

I wonder what she learned during her sabbatical.

larwyn

Blog: Macsmind - Rockefeller did you "teller?"- XI - Mary is only the beginning
Rockefeller "teller?" XI
lots of info and brings up those who signed the "no torture" letter to McCain

larwyn

Rick,
If NGOs that got Fed money and then kicked back to Mollohan involved - won't their books be opened?

And if some of these RE deals involved fed/state properties etc- won't some stuff be public.?

Does Mr. McCarthy have a name that he DBA?

Sue

Nowhere in the NYTs article do they mention she admitted to leaking the information. Though they give plent of reasons why she might have done so.

The most telling thing in the article:

When the Bush administration took office in 2001, Ms. McCarthy's career seemed to stall.
danking70

Haven't read through all the posts so this might have been mentioned.

But, God almighty, isn't their just one curious journalist out there? What about Hitchens? I would think this kind of story, although on the wrong side of the political fence for him, like the war, would be right up Hitchens' alley.

Or Claudia Rossert. Her work on the UN Oil-for-Food scandal was great. She should have won the Pulitzer.

Squiggler

All these contributions by career employees seem very strange to me as a former career military spouse. I know we were limited to zero political activity while my husband was active duty. I guess the same rules don't apply to the CIA.

And another thought ... years ago when I was "on loan" back and forth between my former boss's campaign and legislative offices, I brought my own computer into campaign headquarters a time we were processing thousands of direct mail letters. When the job was done, I took it home again. The following year, I got a rather scary letter from the IRS informing me that we had failed to list the value of the compensation for the in-kind donation I made to the campaign. The gist was that the campaign listed a "rental fee" for use of my computer and I was supposed to pay taxes on that fee. The rental fee was actually the campaign paying for the cost of the ink cartridges used to print the direct mail letters we were producing using my computer and printer. I had to pay or get fined or worse.

Sue

My bad, they do mention it...

Government officials said that after Ms. McCarthy's polygraph examination showed the possibility of deception, the examiner confronted her and she disclosed having conversations with reporters.

Followed by this...

But some former C.I.A. employees who know Ms. McCarthy remain unconvinced, arguing that the pressure from Mr. Goss and others in the Bush administration to plug leaks may have led the agency to focus on an employee on the verge of retirement, whose work at the White House during the Clinton administration had long raised suspicions within the current administration.

It also throws out that she donated to Kerry's campaign, but nothing about the Ohio donation or the total of $10,000 between her and her husband.

topsecretk9

this is a commenter on Scary Larry's post


"Mary McCarthy is a true patriot—someone who defends the American ideal by exposing people who want to operate a secret network of torture camps.

Someday, when the Justice department once again administers justice and the defense department defends us, Ms. McCarthy will be properly honored for her actions as a great American.

Posted by: Publicus | April 22, 2006 at 03:28 PM"

Sue

Top,

I hope you have your radioactive suit on if you are visiting over there. Those people are crazy!!!!

larwyn

Wonder if all those Chinese got such letters?

The HOLLYWOODers, did they get letters?

Oh, that was the Clintons - sorry dumb question.

Boinkie

I don't know where you come from, but ordinary people don't give 5000 to a campaign. A couple hundred, maybe.
I think the most I ever gave was twenty.

topsecretk9

Anyone know if the this is the same Mary McCarthy?...you have to scroll through.

danking70

Rick,

Your post for Clarice shows the signs of a good friend, complete with the requisite spelling errors. lol!

"Clarice is currently locked out of comments (typepad needs to be swatted with a newspaper). She suggests that the leak may be linked pack to Berger, Clarke, Beers (I'd toss in all VIPS) and wonders whether McCarthy may have had some part in the referral on Plame."

Squiggler

Well, it doesn't look like the Sunday shows intend to cover Ms. McCarthy ... from Red State:

For Sunday, April 23, 2006

Meet the Press (NBC): Host Tim Russert will talk to Teddy Kennedy. His roundtable will be Tony Blankley, David Broder, Ron Brownstein, and Dee Dee Myers.

FOX News Sunday (FNS): Host Chris Wallace chats with Representatives Peter Hoekstra and Jane Harman about the mullahs and their nukes. Then he talks to former WH Chiefs of Staff Leon Panetta and Ken Dubertsein about the WH shakeup.

Face the Nation (CBS): Host Bob Schieffer gives a forum to disgruntled former Army General John Batiste (ret.), John Podesta, and Pat Buchanan.

This Week (ABC): Host George Stephanopoulos talks to Arnold and then JF Kerry, reporting for duty.

Late Edition (CNN): Host Wolf Blitzer talks it up with Senators Arlen Specter and Carl Levin; Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora, and NYTimes Tom Friedman, who just wrote a column suggesting that Don Rumsfeld should quit because he doesn't trust him. What a strange person. He's hawking a book.

****************

Same ol' lineup week after week. Same ol' same ol' all the time. Is anyone else sick of seeing Levin all the time? And I'd bet no one will question Kerry about his connections to McCarthy. These MSM types make me sick!

Rick Ballard

Boinkie,

Most ordinary people have not been named Special Advisors to a President. She moved from an internal track in the CIA to a political appointee track and then back to an internal track. The political appointee track pays considerably more and a path back to it (in her case) involves a Dem win. If a real study were made of the VIPers I think that a similiar finding would be the result - further career advancement hinged on political association.

Given what we have learned of the quality of the intelligence assessment from the WMD group it would be totally unsurprising if it turned out to have been a dumping ground for political hacks. "Both hands and a flashlight" would seem to be the end of a proper description of their endeavors.

Lesley

It is deeply disturbing that some people actually believe our intelligence gathering organizations, our military and our justice system ought to be politicized.

Whatever short terms gains they believe they've achieved, people like Mary O. McCarthy will only destroy the faith of the American public in the integrity and impartiality of the very institutions they seek to control.

Untenable for our social compact.

ghostcat

Different Mary Mc.

ghostcat

Last comment for secret top dog.

AJStrata

I just went through her 9-11 testimony, and sad to say the woman sounds reasonable. She tended to want to keep a separation between intel and analysis (some Gorelick Wall), but basically she was saying we got down in the weeds and lost the big picture. When a Dem commissioner tried to lead her to some partisan spin she declined the offer and kept it pretty much on the up and up.

Wonder what made her so bitter to waste her entire career?

http://www.sacred-texts.com/ame/911/911tr/101403.htm

JM Hanes

The bit that jumped out at me from the New York Times article linked by AJStrata was this:

H. Andrew Schwartz, a spokesman for the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said that Ms. McCarthy's relationship with the organization lasted from 2001 to 2003. Several associates of Ms. McCarthy say she returned to the C.I.A. in 2004, taking a job in the inspector general's office. That year, public records show, she contributed $2,000 to Mr. Kerry's presidential campaign, identifying herself as a "government analyst."

Wonder precisely when in 2004 she returned to the fold. Given the October $5K to Ohio, I question the timing...

topsecretk9

thanks spooky kitty.

ghostcat

At the 34th annual spring meeting of the United States Association of Former Members of Congress (USAFMC)in 2004, our Ms. Mary Mc was on a discussion panel consisting of one other intelligence expert and a moderator.

The other expert was ... Porter Goss.

John Davies

Micael and Mary seem to be listed in the Yahoo phone directory. Why don't you call and ask them some questions?

ghostcat

Top -

But ya know, that other Mary Mc shares the same "global partnership" interests as our girl and seems the right age to be her daughter.

(Starring Peter Sellers, Herbert Lom, and Elke Sommer)

larwyn

squiggler,
The LSMers love Levin & Kerry at they do such pretty good

Ben Franklin and Abraham Lincoln

lookalikes. Fits into their confuse the confusable with words and pictures and imposters.

Notice how both do speak as if some day words will be carved in marble - cast in bronze at minimum.

%)

ghostcat

John Davies -

Because Andrea Mitchell would answer the phone?

Syl

The Heinz Foundation/Endowment (through Tides) does employ Landscape Architects for their beautification projects. But then Landscape Architects are probably a dime-a-dozen like Software Engineers. (Both of whom in former days were known as gardeners and programmers respectively ;> )

That's something Cathy would note! Makes me proud!

Patrick R. Sullivan

The line-up card for the 9-11 Commission testimony of Oct 14, 2003 lists McCarthy as being with CSIS and formerly with the CIA. However, when she testifies she identifies herself as 'a current CIA employee'.

TallDave

I think the donations raise the question of whether she was selling information rather than just leaking it. This has real national security implications, so the question should at least be asked.

OT: $660K for 1800 sq ft? Crazy.

vnjagvet

TD:

I believe the entry to which you refer means the footprint of the house is, I believe, 18o0 sq. ft.

Other entries show the house is a two story house, and it has a full basement. That means it has living space of at least 3600 Square Feet and maybe as much as 5400.

Other Tom

"SO where do you all come down on Condi being fired IF repeat IF she leaked/shared classified info with the Israeli lobbyist?" Here's where I come down: she should be fired the moment her boss decides she should be fired, and not one second sooner. For those who don't like it, that's what we call tough cheese. It's a jungle out there, pal.

Rick Ballard

Syl,

It would be a simple manner to funnel money but I can't figure out why it would be done. The foundations could use less obvious cutouts than Mary. I keep going back to the donations being a buy in - a roll of the dice with another appointment as the hoped for payoff. It's not unheard of.

TallDave - Location, location, location. There are 20 locales (or maybe 100) where that price is easy to imagine.

Squiggler

Hit the Bid, we are just trying to fathom why such a well-educated woman with a power job, who had fought her way to the top would throw it all away and become a traitor to her country. Money could be one reason, severe BDS and turning into a fanatical extremist is another, but what the real reason is we don't know as yet. Nor do you. Something made this woman betray her country. I would think you would care about that, but then I keep forgetting that destroying a single man is more important to your agenda than the safety and protection of every American. Oh well. Fortunately for most of us, George Bush is the President and will remain the President until the next election and then you all will have your chance, if you can get enough people to think that electing a Democrat is anything but suicide for America.

kim

$120-370/Sf is peanuts, thousands of places. Wasn't the Ginza worth more than all of California once, twenty years ago?
=====================================

topsecretk9

lets talk about what you think of me for a while

Bid, obviously you think you are accomplishing something here, what I don't care, but you do...that's all I am saying.

Squiggler

They paid $180,000 for the house in 1986, which seems a lot for a house back then, but we lived in that area and I was househunting in 1988 and found similar priced housing, so I think it is in line with the area.

You can be fooled easily by these inflated housing prices. I'm a below poverty level, partially disabled, unemployed single woman and my house was recently appraised for over $550,000. I can assure you that I could not afford to buy my own house and I sure didn't pay even half that when I bought it just 4 1/2 years ago. But, hey, that's So. Calif. and D.C. is even more expensive.

Hit The Bid

My attempts to change the subject to Condi were more Glib than real, it was just getting so serious there for a moment! And it continues to do so.

And Tom:
"For those who don't like it, that's what we call tough cheese. It's a jungle out there, pal"
-Wow such tough straight talk! You really set me straight there! And to piss you off even more, I agree! No one should fire a cabinet officer other than the President..and with approvals around 33% (33% more than I have and I'm not even in elected office) he needs to keep all the "popular" folks he's got nearby(sic).

To think Mccarthy was selling information is just plain gay...not the brokeback kind of gay, but the silly, strange gay we all used to refer it to as. In her defense, she gave all those donations legally and IN THE OPEN. Any one of us blogging losers could go onto that donor website and see for ourselves--I know i did. WOuld someone doing something illegal think that legal donations was a good cover for her illegal ones? Not buying it.

Hit The Bid

COuld anyone reccomend a good "tough cheese"? I'm having the Johnson's over next week and was hoping to impress!

larwyn

The Way We Were: Remembering the Real Nature of Journalism

AS THE WEEK of history's shabbiest Pulitzers mercifully fades from memory, let us pause to learn that the problem with journalism, like the problem with the United States itself, is that both are now and evidently will remain exactly one drink behind.

Behold the words of those who would know:

"I have spent half my life trying to get away from journalism, but I am still mired in it--a low trade and a habit worse than heroin, a strange seedy world full of misfits and drunkards and failures." -- Hunter S. Thompson

"Facing the press is more difficult than bathing a leper." -- Mother Teresa

"Somewhere along the line, many Americans relegated the media to a notch on the morality scale only slightly above that of child molesters." -- Gregory Kane, Baltimore Sun, 1997

"A journalist is a reporter out of a job." -- Mark Twain
================================

You'll want to earmark Gerard's complete collection

topsecretk9

re! And to piss you off even more, I agree!

narcissist.

Hit The Bid

narcissist! Ouch! lets talk about what you think of me for a while--I'll look into a puddle while we do so and admire my reflection...

topsecretk9

This is just UN-eff'ing-Believable...media masturbates itself into complete and total martyrdom...

Will CIA Firing Cloud Public Window on Government?


"GASP" as if the CIA has no right to fire an employee who ADMITS to breaking a pledge SHE SIGNED AND AGRRED TO IN ORDER TO WORK THER

What if shared the secrets of my employer to their competitor? Do they have no right to fire me?

BUT THEN...they quote

To supporters, McCarthy is a woman of conviction who exposed actions she believed were against the law.

"This a matter of principle," said Ray McGovern, a former fellow CIA analyst, "where she said my oath, my promise not to reveal secrets is superceded by my oath to defend the constitution of the U.S."

1. Did she say this?

2.Laws are laws MCGovern...NOT PRINCIPLES YOU GET TO DECIDE...if anything she should sue your butt for giving her a false sense that their would be no recourse when she decided to superced her oath and promise not reveal secrets.

Squiggler

I said this last night, but I'll repeat it ...

There are guidelines to follow if you wish to be a legitimate Whistleblower and I would bet the farm that Dana Priest's name does not appear anywhere within them.

topsecretk9

lets talk about what you think of me for a while

Bid, obviously you think you are accomplishing something here, what I don't care, but you do...that's all I am saying.

topsecretk9

But McCarthy's supporters say if she revealed classified information, it's because she strongly believed what was happening was wrong. With unsympathetic superiors and a Congress that has been reluctant to investigate, she had no one to turn to but the press.

Wow, her supporters seem to hypothetically know a lot about her motivation and NO, Mrs. McCarthy YOU ARE NOT 1- Above the law and 2- A superhero with no place to turn but the press


I really hope when the grate on the prison door impression sinks in these "superheros" start turning on McGovern --- I really do

Barney Frank

"This a matter of principle," said Ray McGovern, a former fellow CIA analyst, "where she said my oath, my promise not to reveal secrets is superceded by my oath to defend the constitution of the U.S."

The EU investigated the charges in Priest's parrot-cage-Pulitzer story and found nothing illegal had occurred. Shameless. Glad we have people like this bonehead looking after our Constitution.

ghostcat

It's hard out there for a whistleblower.

You get the job, take the oath, do your work, and fight for your sense of the right thing.

If you lose that fight, you have several options: (1)keep on keeping on, (2) appeal to higher authority, (3) complain to one of the established complaint channels ... e.g. the IG!,(4) resign, or (4) subvert.

Leaking is subversion.

ghostcat

(5)

clarice

More on William Goodfellow,Dana Priest's husband:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=14893

"One of the most sophisticated of Fenton's anti-war projects is the co-mingling of Win Without War and the Center for International Policy (CIP). Before 9/11, CIP, a Fenton Communications client, mainly acted as Fidel Castro's greatest “think tank” ally. Much of its million-dollar budget was spent lobbying to end economic sanctions and travel restrictions against Cuba.

Now, it has another mission. Fenton has established a “war room” with CIP called The Iraq Policy Information Program (IPIP). Its main job is getting the anti-Bush foreign policy message out to the media and providing guests for talk shows. A featured speaker of the IPIP is former ambassador Joe Wilson, one of the Bush administration’s most vocal enemies. Like Moveon.org and Win Without War, the contact for the Iraq Policy Information Program is Fenton Communications. Win Without War also collects tax-deductible donations through CIP.*********************************


Fenton Communications set up Tides Foundation, the group that launders contributions by Teresa Heinz and others so that it is difficult to tell which foundations gave to whom . (See ActivistCash.com)

Sue

My gosh. I never thought about her being bought. That's an interesting angle.

SteveMG

Taking off the trenchcoat for the green eyeshade (or whatever political consultants wear), it seems to me that boredom is a greatly underrated quality in a presidency.

A nice quiet 3-4 months would do wonders for the Bush White House.

After all, for the past year it has been crisis after crisis after crisis for the Administration to deal with. Granted, some of those problems were magnified or exagerrated by a partisan press; but welcome to the new information age, folks, where the significance of events are magnified and they only fade away when a new larger crisis emerges (or is found).

As Trotsky said in another time and in another place, "If one wanted a quiet life, one picked the wrong century in which to be born."

Seems to me that this cannot help but hurt the Administration. It tends to be viewed, I think, by folks as another example of how things are not in control by the President. Whether it's the incompetency issue or lack of command charge, this White House has been having to react to events over the past year instead of being the actor of events.

If all that noise out there would stop, I could get in a nice nap.

SMG

maryrose

As I reported in another post this whole idea of someone who serves at the discretion of the president taking it upon herself to stage a coup with a dem candidate; in this case Kerry along with Clarke, Berger Wilson Beers et al is really remiscient of the play " Julius Caesar" "Et Tu Brute"
As far as the McCarthy 5000 donation in October 2004 Ohio was very close. As an Ohioan I can tell you we were very nervous. They tried to keep the gay marriage ban off the ballot. They also tried to keep Nader off the ballot. On election night my husband and I were very nervous and didn't breathe a sigh of relief until they called Ohio for President Bush-then -elation. McCarthy contribution was meant to help get out the vote for Kerry in Cuyahoga County. Kerry of course blew it for himself when he showed up here and tried to go duck-hunting and was subsequently laughed out of the state.

MaidMarion

Rocco,

There is no question Sy Hersh was talking to the VIPs...Vince Cannistraro was one of his sources. The few times I've posted references to Hersh's 2003/2004 articles vis-a-vis Plame...there has been little reaction, which has always puzzled me.

Apparently Hersh has a bad reputation with some of posters here, but he was pretty blatant with his Cannistraro quotes.

Perhaps I'm missing something...

Syl

But McCarthy's supporters say if she revealed classified information, it's because she strongly believed what was happening was wrong. With unsympathetic superiors and a Congress that has been reluctant to investigate, she had no one to turn to but the press.

Dissent is a matter for conscience but dissent carries responsibility as well. If part of one's dissent includes breaking the law, then one must pay the price. Period. That's part of the deal...the price you pay for your dissent.

Most people on the left seem to believe that dissent is free.

And, for my friends on the right, dissent is not immoral.

ghostcat

I doubt that she was "bought" in the usual sense. But she was near retirement, and I'll wager she was positioning herself for life after careerism. Perhaps as a fixture of the opposition party's "shadow government", to return as a political appointee. (NW DC and Montgomery County MD are both well-stocked with those folks.)

OTOH, she may also have been funneling campaign funny money for Dems.

clarice

I wonder exactly what sort of conflict of itnerest/disclosure policies the media operates under? Don't you suppose that Priest's connections with Fenton/Wilson /CIP was something readers should have been informed of?

kim

Sure, HTB. legal, open, and still suspicious.

Good point there; there is now a new meaning of the word 'gay'.
==================================

PeterUK

TD,
That is 180ft by 10ft,it is all front with these people.

PeterUK

"the President..and with approvals around 33% (33% more than I have and I'm not even in elected office) he needs to keep all the "popular" folks he's got nearby(sic)."

Why is he standing for a third term?

ghostcat

Clarice -

Media folks do not believe in "transparency" for themselves. It's way beyond being not required, or discouraaged. It is verboten.

Else, they collapse like a house of cards.

Hit The Bid

Hey what can I say...

as for this stuff...

"Fenton Communications set up Tides Foundation, the group that launders contributions by Teresa Heinz and others so that it is difficult to tell which foundations gave to whom"

I intimately know these organizations, as a liberal operative, and these suggestions are laughable...i'd bark up another tree and save time and save yourself from innuendo exhaustion..especially the Heinz stuff...nothing there believe me.

maryrose

clarice:
I am stunned to learn how all this money and political beliefs in journalists and their wives or husbands connections works as a below the surface pseudo-government with their own anti-administration agenda. It is downright creepy and now with this leaking epidemic NSA and the so-called overseas prisons that no one can find justice has to enter at some point and the real story must get out there. Can't wait for your illuminating article to light the way for us and to reveal the truth.
kim; What do you think of Beta Ochoa's theory about Tenet and some of his co-horts? I found it disturbing and disheartening. Are people in the CIA this double-dealing? Is no one honest and true or is it the nature of the business?

Neo

So where's the "duck walk" ?


What are the chances that all those throw away lines that have permeated the print and airwaves for the past few months to describe what should be done with the "leaker" Libby, will now be used in regard to the "leaker" McCarthy ?

I know .. none.

ghostcat

You are believable?

Hit The Bid

one further point...I know several people in what you would call the MSM or Liberal MSM and they are very very decent hardworking honest people...can't everything look weird and biased if thats what you are out to find? If you walk around with a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail. ( that is not to say there are not fucking idiot hacks that work in that business).

ghostcat

HTB, that is. Slow fingetips here.

ghostcat

HTB -

As long as media types perpetuate the lying, self-serving myth of "objectivity" they can all ... in my wife's delicate terms ... rot in hell.

Syl

HtB

All these war-mongering right-wing nutjobs and conservative whackos and Jesus freaks are decent hardworking people too.

So what's your point?

larwyn


Mark Levin of NRO writes:

They will downplay that McCarthy was a Clintonoid who somehow managed to land a top post at the CIA, ultimately winding up in the CIA's Inspector General's Office, from where she could monitor CIA internal investigations of, well, leaks, among other things.

Varifrank has questions:


4. How many "dots" are not being "connected" because half of the CIA is sitting in its cubicles frothing at the mouth in hatred over the words "President Bush". How many people have died due to someone elses Bush Derangement Syndrome?

5. At what point does the actions of someone like McCarthy stop being a "Leak" and start being a form of "shadow government"?

Wretchard at The Belmont Club:

Is there someone lying dead in a gutter because somebody talked? The answer to those questions about the intelligence agencies is going to be answered by the intelligence agencies themselves. And so we come full circle to the modern version of the Cretan Paradox: which asserts that when a Cretan says 'all Cretans are liars' all logical roads lead to a contradiction. How then to know the truth about the lies? When intelligence agencies -- and I use that word broadly to encompass the press, which is the civilian intelligence system -- are politicized, then even our knowledge about our knowledge becomes uncertain.

All the links plus Dr. Pat Santy's insight at:

Dr. Sanity's Blog


maryrose

SteveMG:
Clinton had 8 dead years and therefore accomplished nothing. He got so bored he had to spice up his life with an intern. President Bush is changing history and those who persist in the short view of historic development{like the dems} are doomed to mediocrity. Ask anyone what they remember about Clinton's time. There is nothing there. Everything was "well we almost got Bin Laden and we just missed on the Arab-Israeli agreement. Now these has-beens are trying to get back in power illegally by leaking classified information and Bush-bashing. They had their chance and they blew it big time. Move-over -history won't have the time of day for them.
McCarthy was sore about her demotion and subsequent. This ILLEGAL leaking was her ticket back to the BIG TIME.

maryrose

should read subsequent sabbatical

Barney Frank

Decent, hardworking people have biases. It doesn't have to be a conspiracy. As Tom Bethell pointed out the MSM are equivelant to a hive of bees. Communications and working in the same direction are instinctual not a conscious conspiracy.

ghostcat

We all have biases, Barney. Some of us earn a nice living pretending otherwise.

Rick Ballard

Maryrose,

You simply can't say that bent willy did nothing. More seats changed from Dem to Rep during his tenure than at any time since the Civil War. The man is a saint and a political genius. His wife might be able to outdo him but sadly, she'll never have the chance.

MayBee

The press knows who butters their bread, they won't dig too far into this. Priest just won a Pulitzer for getting this woman to feed her information. No leaks, no prize, no expose on the leakers.

But the husband of Dana astounds me. Poor Fidel and Pol Pot. They were just trying to feed the people, and the horrible US wouldn't let them!!

SteveMG

Maryrose:
President Bush is changing history and those who persist in the short view of historic

He - indeed, no president - can change history if he doesn't have the support of the public. As Lincoln noted, without the support of the people nothing is possible.

And right now, fairly or not, he doesn't have that support.

Since he was re-elected, his Administration has had to deal with crisis after crisis. After a series of these events and his response to them, the public has taken the view that he is not a competent president, that events are steering him and he's not guiding them.

I make not like that view and you may not like that view. But that's the reality.

This latest controversy infuriates most of us here. We know that there have been elements in the CIA (and elsewhere) that have outrageouly attempted to undermine the policies of the elected representatives of our government. That is unacceptable. If one cannot carry out the policies of the President, then resign from office.

But I'm afraid that many folks will view these events - in many cases because they are presented to the public by an incompetent and biased press - as another example of the White House not being in control of events. Of an Administration that is not in command of matters.

I'm hope I'm wrong and the public will see that the people engendering this mess are not the ones at the White House but folks who have disgraced their profession and their oaths to the country.

SMG

Rocco

Why is Tom Warrick from the State Department speaking at the EPIC 2002 Forum? EPIC's 2003 990 Tax Information link (About EPIC) list's Tides, Fenton, and Moveon as contributors. Also note Scott Ritter and a slew of Arab organizations co-sponsoring this event.

http://www.epic-usa.org/Default.aspx?tabid=157

ghostcat

MayBee -

Dana's deal is not unheard of among the DC press corps.

Syl

SMG

Then when speaking to your friends, tell them it's just the doldrums. Bush is fine. Don't you catch the doldrum disease yourself!

The Iraqis have come through! Again! Politics, Iraqi style. Gotta love 'em.

ghostcat

MayBee-

One more comment before I bug out.

70-80% of the "journalists" in Washington are loyal, lifelong Dems who have never voted for a Republican presidential candidate. Joe Klein may be unique in having the the cojones to publicly admit that.

Hit The Bid

Tough crowd. I'll say it again...most of the MSM folks are decent hardworking people. I see lots of Monday morning quaterbacks in this crowd...thats for certain. Lets see any of you on a deadline with limited word space to fill and limited space to file it in.

Well, if this is a Bush supporter crowd, then perhaps a better analogy is Summer Soldier. As a democrat, I actually support our troops--I don;t want them to get killed unecessarily and I actually like to fund their efforts fully and take care of them when they get home...any republican dare to get into that discussion of the VA?

dorothy

Pat Roberts commented on this this CIA leak culprit being fired, but instead of Jay Rockefeller - Mel Martinez was the democrat representaive appointed to comment- Does anyone else think that it odd?

MayBee

On the previous thread, and a little on this one, we were talking about Ohio.
A couple follow-up questions
- Is there a guess in the house that Ohio was going to be *the* state from before the election? Not necessarily the closest, but the one the Kerry people would use to create controversy?

- Were there similar big last-minute donations to MI, or Pennsylvania or Florida? Other potential states with important outcomes thisclose?

That $5000 to Ohio really bugs me, as you can tell. As does the meme that Ohio was the deciding state. It was one among several.

ghostcat

The VA? Government health care? You betcha. Later dude.

Festus

HTR: Dry up and blow away. You have nothing to contribute excertas a spoiled and ignorred three year old. Get some gravitas. Cheers

MayBee

ghostcat (and Hit the Bid)-

GC, I believe you about the political leanings of the press corps.
HTB, having political leanings doesn't make you good or bad or not hard working. However, it is human nature to have a bias toward our own opinions, and when reporters are writing supposedly 'objective' pieces, they can only be objective if they can respect the opinions of those with whom they disagree.

When we see 'brave whistleblowers' that are only putting out their truth, the things that they object to, we are seeing people that have opinions opposite of the people in power. When the press agrees with them, they print it and present it as if they are righting a wrong because it is wrong TO THEM.

You know the world has turned upside down when CIA leakers, Richard Clarke, et al are Dem supporters that are getting the press's ear about how they, as careerists, were only fighting the Bush's polititization of the intelligence agency.

SteveMG

Syl:
Then when speaking to your friends, tell them it's just the doldrums.

T.S. Eliot's line: There are no lost causes because there are no won causes.. et cetera et cetera

It's not my doldrums (well, some) it's the mood of the public. They have soured on Bush.

Since he was re-elected, he's had to face a new crisis nearly every other week. From Harriett Miers to Katrina to Plame to WMD to gas prices and on and on...

A little normalcy would help him greatly.

A little more history thwarting and a little less history making would be welcomed.

SMG

MaidMarion

Clarice,

"Don't you suppose that Priest's connections with Fenton/Wilson /CIP was something readers should have been informed of?"

The answer is unequivocally "yes", but only to those of us who enjoy getting down into the weeds. Most Americans do not like gardening...much less weeding. While most Americans are interested learning the truth, they don't want to spend half their day weeding through the acres worth of political disinformation to get there.

So they turn off...


PeterUK

"Lets see any of you on a deadline with limited word space to fill and limited space to file it in."

No problem sport.That is why they have editors.

Sounds as if the "Lady protesteth too much",you wouldn't want us to think you were,"Gasp,shock horror", a journalist yourself would you Bid?

PeterUK

SteveMG,
Doid he fall or was he pushed,I have never seen such a barrage of negative publicity focused on a wartime leader before.

BTW,In general it should be stated emphatically and ofeten that newspapers are commercial enterprizes,not public amenities, all of them ,from the Editor in Chief to the doorman are in it for the money.

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Wilson/Plame