Tim Russert, Stuck On His Script

Tim Russert, the carefully programmed Manchurian Reporter, stayed on his script when Alan Colmes asked him about his role in the Plame investigation.

Ellen of the Newshounds has the exchange, which reads like all the others when Tim is asked about this.

We have background on his evasions, including the evasive excerpts from his deposition to Fitzgerald.  We are also asking for help in framing the laser-like, no waffle-allowed question for an intrepid interviewer to ask of Tim. 

Our current suggestion:

Mr Russert - without any hedging about whether you actually knew her name, did you discuss Ambassador Wilson's wife with Lewis Libby in any way when you talked with him just prior to the Robert Novak column?  Or had you heard any unconfirmed rumors about Wilson's wife somehow playing a role in the trip to Niger?

Happy hunting.

MORE:  Briefly, on Russert's evasions: "I didn't know" about Plame depends on what it means to "know" something - surely Russert could have mentioned rumor, speculation, allegation, or innuendo to Libby without "knowing" if it were true.

And he told Alan Colmes "I mean, if I had known who she was, you know what? Let me tell you..."

That might mean, he didn't know she was Valerie Wilson Plame, only that Wilson's wife was part of the story; or, it might mean that he had heard rumors that Wilson's wife was involved with Wilson's trip to Niger, but he didn't know where she worked or what she did.

As Ellen points out, saying "I did not discuss Wilson's wife with Libby" should not be that hard.  But instead of saying that, Russert keeps offering dubious reasons that he couldn't have.

WATCHING THE KABUKI:  The defense has a copy of Russert's deposition to Fitzgerald; We the People may not know if all his testimony is as evasive as the bit cited in the court opinion, but they do.  And a straw in the wind, as the Metaphor Mangler kicks into overdrive - the defense is going after the whole NBC newsroom, so they may very well smell a rat.

TRUST BUT VERIFY:  After the jump I have the Lexis trancript, which matches what Ellen provided.  Here are excerpts from Russert last fall on his CNBC show.

Tim Russert Book Looks at Family Relationships

Fox News Network

May 23, 2006

Sean Hannity, Alan Colmes

2329  words

[At the conclusion]:

COLMES: UPI reporting that Patrick Fitzgerald, the prosecutor in the Plame case, said in court papers that Scooter Libby was told in 2003 that Valerie Plame was a classified CIA employee by his boss, Dick Cheney, and previously it was claimed that he was told about Plame by you.

RUSSERT: Yes.

COLMES: Which is the truth? Do you have any idea?

RUSSERT: Well, all I know is what I know personally. That Scooter Libby called me in June to complain about something that had been on a cable TV show. I didn't know who Valerie Plame was until I read Bob Novak's column.

COLMES: You had no idea? Was it known in Washington she was CIA?

RUSSERT: If it was, I missed it. I'll tell you that. And NBC didn't have the story. I wish we had.

COLMES: Yes.

RUSSERT: And now that I read what Mr. Fitzgerald has presented to the court, that not only the vice president, there are at least eight other officials in the government who had conversations with Scooter Libby about Valerie Plame.

COLMES: Right.

RUSSERT: So I'm pretty low down on the food chain.

COLMES: Right.

RUSSERT: And I wish I had known.

COLMES: Was it your sense that he found that out from you before anybody else?

RUSSERT: How could he? I didn't know.

COLMES: Yes.

RUSSERT: If I had known who she was -- you know, let me tell you. And I should say Libby never told me. I wish he had, because I would have called in my correspondents. I would have -- as it turned out, after Libby called me to complain about what was on the show, I called the president of NBC News saying expect a call from Libby. He's furious about what he saw on TV. End of subject.

COLMES: Right. So you never told him. That's not what happened.

RUSSERT: I can't tell anyone what I didn't know myself.

Comments

[clarice]

I did see it--And I must say he's an artful evader..Let's see if Wells does a better job than the interviewers on tv. Well, I'm betting he can. (He also evaded saying what program Libby called to complain about,probably because if he told Libby's version would not seem farfetched.)

[sad]

OT but here is the York article about Larry Johnson courtesy of Lucianne. Do you think York is reading JOM?

http://nrd.nationalreview.com/article/?q=ZWQ0ZjA1OTQ4NTQ0ZTUxNDcxNDk0ODBjMmIxOTE3NGY=

[maryrose]

Let's just call Russert the artful dodger.

[Dwilkers]

I used to think this was being over-parsed. Now though every time he goes to the trouble to oh so carefully qualify it again my eyebrow goes a bit farther up.

[Kazman]

It seems Russert and Andrea Mitchell are having a contest to see which one can tie themselves into more knots.
Its fun to watch.

[sad]

How much do you suppose his concience is bothering him as we watches Libby's reputation and life in tatters? Or is it easy to shake it off and blame Fitz?

[Pete]

TM - That is an entirely different question than the one you asked two days ago.

Here is what you asked earler: "So, could you clear that up for us now - prior to reading Robert Novak's column on July 14, 2003, had you heard rumors or allegations that Joe Wilson's wife worked at the CIA in some capacity? And did you mention this possibility to Libby?"

Those questions seem to be answered, no?

Colmes: You had no idea – was it known in Washington she was a CIA agent?

Russert: If it was, I missed it, I’ll tell you. ..... And I wish I had known.

Colmes: Was it your sense that he found that out from you before anybody else?

Russert: How could he? I didn’t know.

http://www.newshounds.us/2006/05/24/
tim_russerts_not_quite_complete_denial_
about_role_in_cia_leak_case.php

[dorf]

How about this TM?

"Ever hear any rumors about Wilson's wife prior to Novak's column?"

Russert would squirm harder than if he was tied up and you held a cheesteak in front of him.

[clarice]

His testimony was that they never discussed Wilson or Plame. If Libby was calling about Chris Matthews show, it is impossible to believe the topic did NOT come up. If the topic did come up and he contends he never told Libby about Wilson's wife, he nevertheless will also show that his memory of the conversation is also imperfect. And he has no notes of it.

[Kevin B]

Just parsing through

[maryrose]

Russert does concede it was possible she was known in DC as a CIA agent- just that he wasn't aware of it. Goes along with Mitchell's everyone knew on that CIA beat.

[Tom Bowler]

What do you suppose the chances are that team Libby will demand a yes or no answer when Russert gets to tell his story from the witness stand?

[fletcher hudson]

clarice-
Are you sure he testified he never discussed Wilson or his wife? Russert in describing his testimony does not go that far. Is it possible the indictment does not inaccurately states "wife" when Russert said "Plame"

[clarice]

In the absence of access to the statement he made which Fitz read to the gj, I cannot be sure of anything. But in his public statements Russert fudges over the program Libby called to complain of and the CW is that it was Matthews program touting Wilson's fable. If the CW is right, it is hard to believe that Wilson and his lies were not the subtext of the conversation.

[fletcher hudson]

I would guess that about half of those who interview Russert do not understand the significance of "Plame" vs. "Wilson's wife" and the other half are too bias to pin him down. We should find out where he will be appearing to promote his book and educate the interviewers

[fletcher hudson]

Strike--"does not"

[JohnH]

TM
I think all of the question formulations are too loose, allowing him to appear to answer yet bend the question slightly by saying "I have been absolutely clear in saying that I did not know who Wilson's wife was."

I favor a different approach. Make an accusation that he has to deny. Say "You have not categorically denied that you had heard anything at all about Wilson being married to someone at CIA."

[maryrose]

JohnH
You right,we need to be more specific.How about this question:
Did you know or hear that Wilson was married to someone at the CIA and when did you hear it?

[topsecretk9]

NRO's media Blog today...What do Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity, Joe Wilson, David Shuster and Jason Leopold all have in common? Seixon connects the dots:

[cathyf]

Not even that -- I want a question that nails down if Russert knew that Wilson's wife was involved in sending Wilson. Whether or not Russert knew she worked for the CIA. Especially since the behesting could have gone pretty much the same way if Valerie had been a DoS WMD employee rather than a CIA WMD employee.

cathy :-)

[brenda taylor]

well if you listen to russert he denies any knowledge of plame but he is never asked about valrie wilson the truth tellers wife. russert is obvious it does not yake a genius to figure out how these people parse their denials.

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

When Russert is questioned on the witness stand Libby's lawyers won't be asking vague questions. He'll be asked a series of question in a logical progression that will defy evasion.

The result of which will be that Russert will end up--my prediction--that he really doesn't remember all that well what they talked about in detail since he doesn't have any notes. The message to the jury being; reasonable doubt.

[Tom Maguire]

From Pete:

Those questions seem to be answered, no?

Colmes: You had no idea – was it known in Washington she was a CIA agent?

Russert: If it was, I missed it, I’ll tell you. ..... And I wish I had known.

Colmes: Was it your sense that he found that out from you before anybody else?

Russert: How could he? I didn’t know.

Well, I don't "know" if Russert evaded the question when he talked to Fitzgerald, but I still manage to talk about it.

So maybe Russert did not "know" whether Wilson's wife was at the CIA, involved with the NIger trip, or even alive.

That does not mean he could not ask Libby about it in an attempt to pin down a single-source rumor passed to him by, e.g., Andrea Mitchell.

Elsewhere, Russert tries this:

NBC didn't have the story. I wish we had.

Again, one source with a rumor is not a "story" in a professional sense. Maybe Russert was trying to fish a confirmtion out of Libby to get NBC "the story".

Patrick - I am leaning that way - on the stand, Russert will run through the reasons it would have been odd for him to ask about the wife, but eventually settle for "I don't remember".

However, on the way to that point, he will have to remember there having been some newsroom buzz about Wilson and wife.

Which will tie in to his explanation from last fall on CNBC:

RUSSERT: I came back after that interview, after The New York Times piece, and there was a discussion about Joe Wilson and I didn't know very much. And then when I read Novak's column the following Monday, I said, `Oh, my God, that's it. Now I see. It's his wife, Valerie Plame, CIA, sent him on the trip. Now I understand what everybody was trying to figure out.'

I think Russert floated a question to Libby about the wife to try and help with "what everybody was trying to figure out".

[maryrose]

How about this question:
Who sent Joe Wilson to Niger and why was he picked?Or:
Do you recall any social event you attended with the Wilsons?

[brenda taylor]

i think russert knew .by rhe way whats his title ,not only did andrea mitchell know but matthews was all over it and so was david gregory ,so for him not to know whos who in washington is totally unbeliveable.i dont buy it

[maryrose]

TM:
I think you have it exactly right. Russert needed Libby as a 2nd confirming source and Libby didn't give him anything.

[clarice]

Ts--I beat NRO by months.VIPers

What I like about Spruiell's piece is he hangs the dumbbell--or is it, shill?-- laveliers on Shuster and Matthews.

[clarice]

The parsing includes "knowing"..doesn't it?

[Pete]

Doesn't the "newsroom buzz" support the contention that the whisper campaign by the Bush administration was working?

[clarice]

Speculative exchange:

Libby: What the &*^( is Matthews going on about? That story is a pack of lies?

Russert: Why?

Libby:The vice President never sent him. The foregeries played no role in our assessment. The SOTU tracked completely the NIE, the consensus opinion of the intel agencies and we never received any report from Wilson to the contrary.

Russert: I'm hearing rumors about the trip and who picked him for it?

Libby: What rumors?

Russert: They're vague..something about his wife. Everyboody's talking about it.

[Pete]

And talking about carefully worded denials, haven't we heard them from McClennan, Rove, Bush, etc.

"I will fire the leakers". Hmm, I wonder who said that?

[lurker]

Keep the questions VERY simple when asking Russert under the stand.

Instead of "Did you know or hear that Wilson was married to someone at the CIA and when did you hear it?"

When did you know for the first time that Joe Wilson was married to a CIA employee?

When did you hear for the first time that Joe Wilson was married to a CIA employee?

Who told you that Joe Wilson was married to a CIA employee?

How did you learn that Joe Wilson was married to a CIA employee?

[cathyf]

Russert needed Libby as a 2nd confirming source and Libby didn't give him anything.

Hmmm -- maybe Russert was on the lookout for a second source, but he honestly has no idea whether or not he tried the story out on Libby when Libby called him? Maybe the only part Russert is really lying about is that the wifey gossip would have been important to him or NBC before July 12.

cathy :-)

[lurker]

"And talking about carefully worded denials, haven't we heard them from McClennan, Rove, Bush, etc.

"I will fire the leakers". Hmm, I wonder who said that?"

Bush. Mary McCarthy was fired.

Libby is not indicted for leaking.

[lurker]

Don't forget Gonzalez's speech Sunday morning that the CIA / NSA leak investigations are approaching to completion.

[Pete]

Libby may not have been indicted, but the record is pretty clear that he did (as did Rove who leaked to Cooper). You are proving my point about carefully worded denials.

[lurker]

How can Libby be a leaker when Woodward and Novak said that Libby was not their source?

Fitz thought Libby was the first official source but that has since been disproved.

[Tom Maguire]

You are proving my point about carefully worded denials.

Pete, the problem is, you don't have a point, or at least, not a relevant one.

Is your message that its OK for Russert to give faux denials, since Bush does too? Well, Bush won't be on the witness stand, but Russert will be; if he changes his story, we will all hear it, and "OK" or not, it will make major news.

And on one was indicted on the basis of Bush's promise to fire anyone (although is has been factored in to provide a motive to lie), but Russert's story was key in the Libby case.

[clarice]

How can Fitz keep boying the Wilsonista/VIPers lies that there was a concerted Vengence outing when (a) Libby wasn't the outer and (b) he's conceded the person who was had no bad motive.Or when he's faced with the fact that Wilson was the outer--which he will be--he's already said to the Miller court, that he was uninterested in leaks which came from Wilson and his friends, only with leaks that came from the OVP?

Hoist by His Own Deranged Thinking.

[clarice]

***bUying, not boying*******

[lurker]

And there were no leaks coming from OVP as far as we know to date? This includes Rove NOT leaking to Cooper, right?

[clarice]

Rove is not in the OVP. And he, like UGO, warned Cooper not to get out to far ahead on the story. (This BTW with his co-author Calabresi chatting to Wilson.)If UGO (as the "estimable" Meeks reported is a "good leaker" because he warned reporters off the story--so is Rove.

[Pete]

TM - It is certainly not my contention that it is ok for Russert to give faux denials. I don't think that the point has even been made that Russert is giving faux denials.

You posed a question for Russert two days ago. That seems to have been answered by Russert. Now the goalpost has been changed and a new question is on the table. I don't think that Russert is in a position to look at each and every blog and answer each and every question that pops up.

My point is that people are getting very worked up over carefully worded denials which may not even exist, yet at the same time they are oblivious to the carefully worded denials of the Bush administration.

[clarice]

Pete--there does seem an awful lot that sails right over your head...

[PeterUK]

Mr Russert,
Would you feel more comfortable answering these questions whilst wearing an orange jump suit.

[Jeff]

So Tom and clarice, in the spirit of questions looking for a straightforward answer, am I right that you don't think Libby is confusing the conversation with Russert with another conversatio with a different reporter at a different time?

[cathyf]

As for what Rove saying anything about Plame to Cooper, all we have is the uncorroborated word of Cooper. Maybe it happened, maybe it didn't. (Maybe Cooper knows, maybe he doesn't remember either...)

cathy :-)

[cathyf]

in the spirit of questions looking for a straightforward answer, am I right that you don't think Libby is confusing the conversation with Russert with another conversatio with a different reporter at a different time?

Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. Maybe it is unknowable because nobody remembers.

cathy :-)

[Jeff]

Nice evasion and hedge, cathy. I tried much harder to be straightforward with your questions.

[sad]

Jeff
What's wrong with considering both possibilities?