Four Dancers, Five Rapists, Whatever

The Duke accuser's story was quite fluid when she spoke to the police.  To her supporters, this will only confirm that she was having a post-traumatic reaction:

A woman who accused three Duke University lacrosse players of rape initially told police she was attacked by five men and changed her story several times, at one point denying she had been attacked, according to a police report released Friday by a defense attorney.

Authorities said previously in affidavits the accuser reported she was raped by three men at a March 13 lacrosse team party where she was hired to perform as an exotic dancer with a second woman.

In the report by Durham Officer G.D. Sutton, dated in the early morning of March 14, the woman said she was one of four dancers at the party and that she was attacked by five men. The woman also said she had not been raped, according to Sutton's report.

District Attorney Mike Nifong won indictments against three players and has said they were the only ones implicated by the evidence.

Victims rights advocates say it's not uncommon for an assault victim to have trouble answering questions in the hours immediately after an attack, when they are often emotional and unable to focus on describing what has happened.

A Duke police office described the accuser in the lacrosse case as "crying uncontrollably and visibly shaken" when speaking with her at a hospital hours after the party

Comments

[clarice]

Where would we be without "victims' rights activists?" About the same place we are now that "recovered memory" and expert preppers of day care molestation"victims" have proven to be frauds, I think.

[Carol Herman]

When things have bottom lines you can measure success. And, failure. While the race into new standards of idealism; that came with the changes out of the 1960's; has stalled.

For me it stalled the day the OJ verdict came in. (Not that I thought Marsha Clark presented the prosecution's case well; she didn't.) But it's all part and parcel of the same advancement system. Where incompetents got jobs based on their genitalia and/or skin color.

I'd imagine it's all broken, now. But the elites can charge a lot at haarvard. And, our "yoot" haven't figured out how to get adult credentials without being fleeced. So they end up in debt. With toilet paper that costs a fortune. Some don't even bother to hang these diplomas from the wall.

On the other hand, "yoot" ain't gonna go backwards. Their not going to think of marriage while still in their teens. And, we've postponed "growing up" to the point that Barbra Streisand still thinks she's a sex kitten. Well, that's hardly true!

Whole industries were inherited, and then they died. So in today's hollywood the question is asked: "Without her dad, alive, is Tori Spelling gonna act in big productions?' Who'd hire her?

Pinch took his family's paper down into the gutter, too.

Every place ya look you'd notice what Barbara Tuckman once said about aristocracy, accelerating. What did she say? Maximum amount of time for a line is 7 generations. Before the wealth is gone.

It's happening faster now. That's all.

[ed]

Hmmmm.

What I find curious is that there is absolutely no standard that these pro-accuser activists are willing to apply to the accuser. No matter what she says. No matter how completely unhinged her *official* statements to the police or to medical staff for them it never impacts her credibility.

Which is completely absurd.

[clarice]

No kidding. It's witchcraft..

[Carol Herman]

"Witchcraft" ... Well, that's a new name for news services.

The biggest part of this problem is that there seems to be a dirth of responsiblity among journalism's crafters. In other words, they're never pulled up short by spouting insanities. Which means? They think they're copying priests; and dispensing religion. Where what they say counts for more "truth" than what your eyes tell ya.

I think if you polled people, now, their eyeballs would roll over this new twist in the old Twana Brawley story.

True,then it raised Alsharpton, pimp whore, to nominee status up on the donk's stage.

WHere you get to see Jesse Jackson and others chasing around looking for handshakes. Ain't no way to run a Ms. AMerica Amok road show, either.

I think the elites blame outsiders for their troubles. But it's troubles grown at home. Where gossip passes for sage information.

While the public at large has figured it out.

When the Libby story first broke, for instance, lots of people said Libby's being sacrificed. He'd never win. But so far it doesn't look like Fitzgerald can quite notch his belt yet. (And, even a DC jury may boot him out of town.)

While Libby's gotten a boatload of sympathy.

Not so Judith Miller, who did spend 85 days in the can.

And, not so as a defeat, either, for Martha Stewart. Maybe, now, she's got a bit more name recognition? She's back in charge of her empire. And, she does better at the helm of her magazine that others can do. (Though I'm fully convinced she was attacked because there were elites interested in inheriting her audience.) Didn't come out that way.

If anything, whatever the gains had been in terms of changing the public's attitude towards policies; it's the donks who are pedaling backwards.

At some point, in the new method of teaching things; where feelings replaced product; there must have been some people who scratched their heads than anyone would accept such shoddy standards.

Alas, if you get it big enough it can fall hard enough, when the customers stop coming.

[vnjagvet]

My visual for the day:

John Lovitz, famed jury consultant and now victim advocate, preparing the alleged victim for her testimony before the jury:

"Tell them 'three guys raped me', yeah that's the ticket."

[Gary Maxwell]

This case has been a joke from the start. LaShawn Barber sniffed it out right away. Even horribly left wingers, like Jeralyn Merritt at Talkleft, have called this one for the bs it is.

[John Loki]

Victims rights advocates say it's not uncommon for an assault victim to have trouble answering questions in the hours immediately after an attack, when they are often emotional and unable to focus on describing what has happened.

Did the left ever give Juanita Broaddrick
that benefit?

[richard mcenroe]

So they're presuming a priori that there WAS an assault: if the woman is contradicting herself and incoherent, she must have been assaulted, and not drunk, stoned, stupid or coached.

[cathyf]

It appears, from the evidence made public, that this woman accidentally slipped herself a micky. She took a muscle relaxer for back pain (completely reasonable decision in isolation.) Then she had a drink, maybe two (again, completely reasonable in isolation.) The combination was total blotto intoxication.

So now the woman is being forced to follow through on decisions that she made while she was incapacitated. The damage that Nifong is doing to the lax players is obvious. But the damage that he is doing to the victim is not insubstantial, either. Enough that we can promote her from "alleged victim" to "victim" -- because at this point she has become another victim of Nifong's political ambitions, and the political ambitions of the professional "advocates" and race-baiters.

cathy :-)

[ed]

Hmmmm.

So they're presuming a priori that there WAS an assault: if the woman is contradicting herself and incoherent, she must have been assaulted, and not drunk, stoned, stupid or coached.

Actually that's the default point of view of "rape" nurses. If the "victim" claims rape then the nurse dutifully writes down that there was evidence of rape.

In part because there is a wide variance in what constitutes evidence of rape. Another because of potential legal liability if an erroneous report prevents a "victim" from getting her day in court. And another because the system has been perverted until it is pro-accuser.

Frankly I think a huge number of accused rapes are nothing of the sort. A good friend of mine was arrested in his highschool class for raping a classmate. This guy is a very stand-up kind of guy. Church on sundays, taught sunday school. Helped with constructing housing for the poor. Is heavy into scouting and spends weekends either working with the Boy Scouts or building homes.

Well this girl classmate accused him, and a friend of his, of leaping out of some hedges *dressed as ninjas* assaulting her, dragging her in through the hedges onto a golf course and then repeatedly raping her.

The absurdities abound. Least of all because the hedges in question are 5 feet thick and absolutely impenetrable to anything larger than a squirrel.

[ed]

Hmmmm.

So now the woman is being forced to follow through on decisions that she made while she was incapacitated.

What I also think is rather unfair is the treatment of the Lax players for having hired two black strippers. Supposedly this is some sort of throwback to the slavery days, isn't it always, and a form of "massa mentality".

That the players had actually specifically hired a white & hispanic stripper evidently means nothing.

What nonsense.

[ed]

Hmmm.

Not that I condone hiring of strippers.

Frankly I think, and have always thought, that hiring strippers and going to strip clubs is one of the stupidest things imaginable. I've had to remind some of my friends on occasion that the woman is dancing because it's a *job*.

She's not thinking about how sexy you are. She's thinking about her shopping list at the grocery store or when to pickup her dry cleaning.

Really. Some guys in these strip clubs are just complete idiots.

[noah]

The guys are pathetic. But its also pathetic that so many women are willing to do what if not for "no touch" rules quickly degenerates into prostitution.

[ed]

Hmmmm.

Well. Around here in New Jersey, which heavily restricts touching and disrobing, a girl can earn upwards of $3,000 a night for dancing.

And yes there are often undercover police officers in the audience to make sure that no naughty bits are exposed and no excessive handling happens.

lol. Which makes the strip clubs around here rather extremely tame frankly. The women generally wear more clothing in the club than on the beaches.

But yes. Guys are somewhat pathetic about this. On the other hand many strip clubs around here have excellent lunch deals. I used to frequent a couple for lunch because where else can you get a decent burger, fries and a coke for $3?

With a floor show?

It's a strange world.

[Betty Friedan]

"Victims rights advocates say it's not uncommon for an assault victim to have trouble answering questions in the hours immediately after an attack, when they are often emotional and unable to focus on describing what has happened."

People who lie also have difficulty remembering what they said. That's why we have to look at other evidence like in the Duke Rape Case; however, all the evidence points to she lied. The only reason why Nifong is acting with such gross negligence is because he committed himself to winning his election. Unfortunately the cost is the public sacrifice of his own integrity, professionalism, and the lives of three innocent boys.

[http://lasnews.com/node/17289]

Regarding "ed's" post, I found this post:

http://lasnews.com/node/17289

Hey! I was a stripper(male) for a couple of years after college, and it's not that we lie, it's just we sell an image. If you want a starving college boy, you got a starving college boy, it you want a depraved exhibitionist, you got a depraved exhibitionist. I've showed up at "private parties" dressed in anything from hot pants, surf shorts, to baseball uniform at the client's request. Being male, if you wanted to have lots of sex, you strip for women, if you want lots of money you strip for men, and you learn to be whatever they want you to be for the time you give them.

Women strippers are a different animal. They're not innocent. The money top female strippers can make will blow your mind. Feminist have successfully made all women to be innocent victims who are forced to have sex and show their bodies for money. Such bull! These women know how to work money out of guys. All you need is a little liquor and guys would empty their wallets!

Many of these women are ‘dealers”, but that’s just being prepared to please your client.

I suspect this black stripper, Crystal Gail Mangum, lied about being raped in fear of being arrested for drug possession. She was already on probation for larceny, auto theft, and trying to mow over a police officer in 2002, and didn’t want to have her probation revoked. I’m wondering what kind of lap dance she gave Mr. Nifong to get his devotion. This black girl must be talented.

Stay away from old strippers because the longer you’re a stripper, the more likely you’ve gotten into drugs, and once drugs claim hold of you, you’re life blows, and it wouldn’t be unusual to blow thousands of dollars a night to get that “buzz”. Luckily I had a problem with a certain liquor commissioner. He caught me working this guy for $20.00 for each 3 second feel and next thing I know I was in the liquor storeroom with my legs up. Thank god what they say about all black men being hung isn’t true. Was I upset, sure, was I coerced, sure, but that’s the deal you make when you cross a government official with the power of fining the nightclub, getting you fired and arrested. Pretty boys dragged to jail wearing nothing but a metallic animal print thong don’t do well in police holding over a long weekend. This is where you learn that it’s screw them before they screw you, and client don’t seem anything more than game.

There is a whole underworld out there that lives under the cover of night. These people who seem like victims won’t hold back taking victims of their own. That’s the world they live in. It’s the drugs and the experience of feeling you won’t be accepted by your looks and will be taken advantage of for your looks. It’s hard to explain, but if you’re going to hire a stripper, you have to know what you’re getting yourself into. Many of these people are hardened criminals, angry, or just plain crazy… Oh! BTW… never get into a fight with a “tranny”. They may look like pretty girls, but they’re strong like guys, hopped up on hormones, and usually carrying a weapon.

[Black Jack]

Following John Loki, it's interesting to imagine what the Lefty asylum would have to say if Bill Clinton threw the party, and the strippers were Juanita Broaderick and Paula Jones?

Seems the same folks who adamantly decline to grant the Lacrosse players, or US Marines, the presumption of innocence, did so quite willingly when Slick's rear end was on the hot seat.

[cathyf]

the system has been perverted until it is pro-accuser

In this case I think it's worse than that -- the system is pro-accusation. And if things are as they appear, pursuing the accusation in this case is more anti-accuser.

A prosecutor who was not violating his oath of office would have done a preliminary investigation and allowed to woman to retract everything once she sobered up. And notified school authorities, so that they could take reasonable and proportionate action for the boys hiring strippers and the underage drinking while on probation for their previous rowdiness.

cathy :-)

[Carol Herman]

Excuse, me. But the real complaint started when two Black strippers showed up; and the men complained about their color. There was no action that night resembling "rape." But the two strippers wanted their $400. Yes. I think it was paid, too.

That the strippers would go so far as to claim "rape" ... when you can see by the facts that it didn't happen; gives you some idea of what some people do when they threaten to sue ya. The gals SUED. Because they were enraged. (The nerve of some party poopers to complain about skin color, is at the root of this story.)

As to "hiring strippers" ... I probably thought the same thing. Normal people don't do this.

And, then I heard of a party; that a successful physician recently threw. In the very tony Bradbury Park area, near where I live, in Southern California.

The dad, a widower, was turning 91. And, guess what? A stripping couple was hired. The dad also had his 80-something paramour present. AND, THE RABBI (our local Reform Rabbi), was at the party. (So there goes yer idea that it's only youngsters who hire strippers. And, they need their heads examined, to boot.)

The entertainment for the evening involved the rabbi performing a mock marriage for dad, and his lovely old lady. And, then the strippers danced. It seems dad's girl friend got her jollies by squeezing the testicles of the male dancer. While the female dancer lap danced on the birthday guy; really, really celebrating his 91st year. Better than blowing out candles on a cake, let me tell ya.

So score this. The party was tony. It had lots of docs from the San Gabriel area present. With their wives. And, the local rabbi. EVERYBODY HAD A GOOD TIME.

Does color make such a difference?

And, is part of what we are seeing the way blacks use our court system to address the wrongs? Being taught that whites have guilt, perhaps, leads to faulty conclusions.

And, at Duke, which has a LAW SCHOOL (where Nixon got his credential, among others), what lays in ruins is the administrators attempts to blame "underage drinking." I suppose they think this goes down well with the student body, huh?

Duke should be ashamed of themselves. Nixon either rotates in his grave; or his ghost laughs out loud. Pick.

[Betty Friedan]

Ever since every sexist and racist group descended onto Duke to publicly condemn these boys, I went into over drive trying to make people consider that these boys wouldn't have submitted to DNA testing if they were guilty, but since the 1st DNA evidence came back, I became more persistent and met equally persistent feminist (i.e. feministing, Rachael’s Tavern, Alas a blog, Tennessee Guerrilla Women, Justice4Sisters, Hazel8500 etc...) who adamantly insist these boys are guilty for no other reason than because a "woman" (i.e. the stripper) claims it so.

I've noticed since then that most of feminist blogs have fallen silent as new evidence suggests that the stripper's claim to be false.

However, just when you think this case hit rock bottom, there’s about 50 feet of crap, then you find a sub-basement where in the corner Mike Nifong is hunched over clutching this dead case like “Gulum” (movie: Lord of the Rings) clutches the “ring of power”.

A great place to view that unbiased facts is:

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/ourcall/index.cgi?501
http://johninnorthcarolina.blogspot.com/2006/06/duke-lacrosse-newsweek-abandons.html
http://commonsensewonder.com/?p=738

“If Mike Nifong doesn't get disbarred after this, then there really is a corrupt system in Durham that protects rich white guys. In Nifong's case - stupid rich white guys with transparent political agendas.”

I thought the stripper had serious integrity issues, but seems to Nifong have serious integrity issues of his own. Publicly trying to convict and condemn these boys in the media is unethical to say the least, but fabricating a case to convict these boys in court is criminal