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July 19, 2006

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» Go Ned Lamont! from SEIXON
It's funny watching DailyKos and Ned Lamont pretend that Lamont is anything other than a single issue candidate. It's Iraq for all the money. That worked out so well for Kerry, didn't it? [Read More]

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Comments

Pete

Open Secrets notes that Lieberman gets close to 80% of his contributions from non-residents.
http://politicalwire.com/archives/2006/07/18/in_connecticut_lamont_relies_on_outofstate_support.html

I've heard so many Bush supporters say that the 2004 election vindicated the Iraq war. Now that there is an election on which the clear distinction is on the Iraq war position of two candidates, the same people are crying foul.

Freaknik

Since you are basically a rather timid and boring Republican moderate, why do you care what happens in the Democratic primary?

ed

Hmmmm.

I'm not crying foul.

Lieberman wins, the Kossacks look like idiots for the 21st time.

Lieberman loses, the Kossacks succeeded in eliminating the only sane voice in the Democratic party.

Either way, I win.

Rick Ballard

Except Lieberman won't be eliminated from the November ballot. By November CT voters will have Lamont figured out and Lieberman won't owe anyone anything. He might even be able to trade some Independent support for a chairmanship - if the Reps want to bother.

He can sure afford the Kosola - that's what counts.

topsecretk9

turns out Ned has $50,000 worth of stock in...drum roll please...Halliburton, to which the left-o-kids say?

This is not a big deal unless we make it a big deal...

Tom Maguire

Now that there is an election on which the clear distinction is on the Iraq war position of two candidates, the same people are crying foul.

Whose crying foul? And since you seem to agree with me (and Early Ned) that this primary is a referendum on the war, do you also agree that Late Ned is being a bit disingenuous?

clarice

Let's put it this way, if Lamont wins the primary the NYT will credit his war stance. If he loses, it'll be for some other reason.

Pete

I'd be hard pressed to find a politician who was not disingenuous (and IMO Bush takes the cake on this topic). I am sure that those opposed to Lieberman can come up with their analysis of how Lieberman is disingenuous.

The thing that strikes me most about Lieberman is how amiable he was when debating Cheney and how combative he was when debating Lamont. I'm not from CT btw.

Elections are never about one topic, and it would be a mistake to say that the CT election is a referndum on Iraq. However everyone should welcome the clear difference in the Iraq stand of the two candidates. While Lieberman may ultimately win the primary or the election, there is no doubt that his Iraq stand has hurt him.

topsecretk9

Why the lie? Because Lamont gains nothing by highlighting the fact that a big chunk of his buzz and financial support come from potty-mouth out-of-staters.

BINGO! TM

that old Rape Gurney Joe campaign slogan I see has drifted softly to the wayside...shades of the Dean bus

Pete

Talking of Iraq, did anyone note that the Iraqi PM denounced the Isreali attack on Lebanon. I had earlier predicted on JOM that in the long run Iraq will find more commonality with its neighbors, especially Iran.

Your tax dollars at work.

clarice

I rather assume that was perfunctory and for domestic reasons in a majority Shia country. OTOH if Saddam were still in power, how much more complicated this chess game would be, I think..

topsecretk9

Where's the famous nuance?

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syn

The one thing which turns me away from the Democrat Party is the constant double standard mnaintained.

They say they are always looking out for the little guy by going after the rich white guy but they always elect rich white guys.

They say they are looking out for minorities but they always keep minorities at the back of the bus.

They say they are against government corruption but they take millions from Hollywood and George Soros while writing the news for PBS, NBC, ABC, CBS and CNN.

They say they support America but they always slam her as hegemonic imperialist when she is at war against radical Islam then stand out in front of the UN declaring their undying support for Israel but will throw out a pro-war Jewish Democrat for a rich guy who is against war.

It is no wonder the moonbats are rabidly insane.

noah

I hope Lieberman loses. He's just another liberal that obstructs, obstructs, obstructs. I can't stand his pious bullshit.

syn

Obstructs what?

The liberal desire to eliminate America and Israel or just eliminate America so that the Democrats can pander to the Jewish vote?


Pious bullshit is hearing Hillary CLinton and Chuck Schummer stand in front of the UN declaring their undying support for Israel in order to garner the Jewish vote then head to DC to rag against America's determination to defend herself while bringing hope to the people of Iraq.

Dwilkers

OK off topic but here we go again.

Glenn Greenwald sock-puppet?

Jane

>Elections are never about one topic, and it would be a mistake to say that the CT election is a referndum on Iraq.

Except that this time it is. Lamont brings nothing else to the table.

Jeff

Wow, this is some surprisingly crude analysis, in about five different ways. Sure, Lieberman's stance on the war is important, sure it was the thing that pushed Lamont. That doesn't mean that's all he is. (Note the difference in tenses.) And ask yourself why you don't see credible primary challenges to other war supporters even in blue states. The simple fact of the matter is, as I would have thought you would recognize, Lieberman occupies a unique position among Democrats, and what makes him unique is not his position the war, and its his uniqueness that gave resonance to Lamont's challenge, regardless of the fact that the war - which is, after all, the central event of our times - may have been the thing that pushed him to actually make those calls. To say nothing of the fact that all candidates round themselves out as they go. Indeed, most candidates get into campaigns for no substantive reason at all, but just to get in power, and then they figure out where they stand.

And I don't get all the harping on millionaire candidates running for senate by lots of self-funding. I don't like it either. But take it up with the campaign finance people, not the candidates who are pursuing the most viable way to challenge powerful incumbents who have the playing field tilted toward them in numerous ways.

boris

harping on millionaire candidates running for senate by lots of self-funding

Tit for tat.

Doesn't actually bother me but the CFR hypocrits have it coming.

syn

SO Democrats are against America defending herself yet will stand in front of the UN declaring their support for Israel's right to defend herself.

This weekend the anti-war brigade (aka totalitarian collectivists) is holding a teach-in in NYC on how to deal with the anti-war movement's rise in anti-semitism within the group (seems anti-war Jews are unhappy with the anti-war brigade's anti-semitism). Next week the anti-war brigade will be sending out to the Democrats the talking points which will include supporting Israel at war BUT continue remind the Protestant and now happy Jewish antiwar minions that the Evangelicals are evil because of gay marriage, rich white males are oppressive, Republicans steal votes, Bush hates black people so he caused a big hurricane which created cannibalism, and that people will cured by using discarded human embryos.

Like I said before, no wonder the moonbats a rabidly insane.

richard mcenroe

This is not news. Here in California, "our" Senator Boxer gets much if not most of her campaign funding from out of state donors. I would not be surprised in the least to find this is common in blue states nationwide; the "party of the little man" is the toybox of a tight clique of moneyed, self-appointed 'elites'. Okay, and ME oil money, for multicultural diversity.

clarice

Lamont is going to lose the primary. How do I know? Bill CLinton is coming to campaign for him, and I doubt he'd do that, if he felt Lieberman would lose.

syn

Actually, it will be interesting to watch how Socialist are going to show their support for both Jews and Muslims. How are they going to have posters captioned Death to Zionist Occupation with Defend Israel's Right to Exist at the same protest?

No doubt the rhetoric towards Evangelicals is going to be ramped up a notch.

Freaknik

Wrong Clarice. If Lieberman wasn't going to lose, Hillary would campaign for him.

This is just the Clintons hedging their bets.

But I do love it that all you Republicans are pulling for Clinton's boy.

danking70

Lieberman Losing Ground in Senate Race

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/07/20/D8IVOEKG0.html

Sen. Joe Lieberman, under fire from activists in his own party, has lost ground to his challenger and is in a statistical dead heat for the Democratic nomination, a new poll released Thursday shows.

Businessman Ned Lamont led Lieberman, 51 percent to 47 percent, among likely Democratic voters in the latest Quinnipiac University poll.

I don't like how this race is closing up.

verner

I agree Clarice. Clinton never does a thing that isn't self serving.

And as for Lieberman. Considering what's currently going on in the ME, I hope a few dem voters come to their senses.

Invading Iraq has given us a firm foothold in the region, and has eliminated Saddam from the mix.(Now we only have to deal with two members of the axis of evil). There may still be "terrorists" in Iraq, but they are constantly on the run, and not able to do much more than terrorize the Iraqi population--not exactly a good PR move.

If you'll notice today, even a Saudi sheik, has issued a fatwah against Hezbollah.

The left needs to get real. As Newt said, we are in WWIII, a global conflict with Islamofascism. It will likely get much worse. But anyone who thinks George Bush started it is a fool.

I expect a major upswing for Lieberman in the polls within the next few weeks.

Jeff

Doesn't actually bother me but the CFR hypocrits have it coming.

This is a joke, right? Surely you understand that if someone objects to our current campaign finance regime because, among other things, it props up an incumbent protection racket, that person will tend to look on rich, self-funded incumbent-challengers as an unfortunate second-best course for challenging that racket while playing by the rules as they exist. If the rules were different, it would be a different matter. But the rules aren't different, so playing by them means that a rich candidate is one of the few feasible ways of challenging ensconsed incumbents.

But maybe you really do enjoy sticking it to the left, in your own mind at least, more than thinking things through.

lonetown

Liebermans case simply demonstrates that pandering breeds contempt among partisans.

What amazes me is how little credit he gets for his solid liberal voting record. That has no resonance.

I voted for him as the best of two evils when he beat Weicker, was repulsed by the 2000 campaign and find them both rather yesterday now.

As an ultra conservative I'll probably vote for Lieberman if hes an independant because I like to parse the Democrats into their little bins of banality.

SteveMG

Michael Barone pointed out once (and I can't dig up the source and the exact quote) that incumbents don't lose because of one issue but that they usually get in trouble due to one issue.

By that he meant that critics of an incumbent usually emanate from a series of decisions or actions of that politician over his career. A vote here, a statement there. But this inchoate or disparate opposition isn't powerful enough to unseat that candidate until one larger policy dispute allows them to center or focus their anger.

Take away that larger issue - Iraq - and, if one embraces the Barone argument, Lieberman wouldn't be in trouble. And according to the latest poll, he's in big trouble (primary-wise).

SMG

SteveMG

incumbents don't lose because of one issue but that they usually get in trouble due to one issue.

Y'know, I think I have my Barone backwards. And if he for some reason visits here, (1) get a life and (2) my apologies.

Incumbents lose because of many issues but get in trouble because of one issue.

That's it. An incumbent over the years creates opposition within his party because he doesn't always follow the party line. He may be in trouble because of a vote here or a statement there. But he won't lose his seat until one larger issue focuses that opposition into a single entity.

SMG

Specter

Welll....I am from CT and I can say that Ned is running a single issue campaign. For those of you who don't live here it is completely about Joe's stance on the war and tries to tie that to people's current dislike of Bush. Neddy has made a token attempt to talk about "Universal Healthcare", but that is a loser from the get-go.

But, according to the Hartford Courant (who is for Neddy boy), Lamont has pulled even in the polls of likely voters. Of course, they don't publish the poll or the demographics, so who actually knows how they asked the question.

The problem for Lamont is that Lieberman has a tremendous amount of support from both moderate Democrats and Republicans. When the Courant asked how people would vote if Joe ran as an independent the answer was this:

The poll shows him leading a three way race with the support of 51 percent of likely voters, compared to 27 percent for Lamont and 9 percent for Republican Alan Schlesinger.

Lamont doesn't stand a chance in the long run. Too bad.

Patrick R. Sullivan

'The thing that strikes me most about Lieberman is how amiable he was when debating Cheney and how combative he was when debating Lamont.'

Which tells a lot about the differences between Lamont and Cheney.

Specter

Oh...BTW - for those of you arguing that Clinton would support Lieberman if they wanted him to win, Hillary isn't coming here, but Bill is. Not sure if that is good for Joe or not though....LOL

Lieberman also has the backing of the major unions here. So we'll see what happens during the primary. Ned has been running an add that say, in essence, "Please Joe, no matter who wins the primary, can't we agree to back the Democratic party candidate?" He is a bit concerned.

Jane

Spector,

Has Lamont taken a position on the Israeli-Lebanon conflict?

I'm in central MA so I get Lamont ads on TV and it's all anti-Bush stuff so far.

Herbert M. Smith

What is your point in going after Ned Lamont as if there were some scandal or something? Why don't you simply compare him to Lieberman and help your readers sort out the differences.

Why are you always trying to find evidence of bias in the NY Times? Yes, it's a liberal paper. Get over it.

Of course the guy is rich. He's a successful entrepreneur. Good for him.

Yes, he's agains the war in Irag, but of course he wants to be seen as a more well-rounded candidate. What's wrong with that?

Ned Lamont has his strengths and weaknesses like we all do. But at least he's sticking his neck (and wallet) out to give the voters of Connecticut a choice this August. I'm a Republican, so I can't vote in the primary, but my hat is off to him for doing the voters a favor. We should have more citizens like Ned Lamont.

Rick Ballard

WWOT - Does anyone care to venture as to whether Greenwald used a nom de sockpuppet in comments here at JOM? I know he's come in and spit up on his own but the current fun highlighted at Protein Wisdom (among many other places) make me wonder.

Glenn's gonna hafta rub a little Kosola oil on the tender places after this.

Specter

OT - Glenn site is a hoot. I was over there and talking about his sock puppetry and all they can do is say, "But what does it matter? He still is an intelligent guy." LOL Add to that Glenn's excuse is that someone using his shared IP posted all of those posts. Gawwwwwd...what a bunch of losers.

Jane - haven't heard a word about Lamont's stand on the current problem. Naw...his drum continues to roll on anti-Bush and Iraq. That's it. What is really scary is that so many people form their opinions solely on TV ads. Very frightening.

Extraneus

I don't get the principle behind this whole thing. First, the Democrats jockeyed for the original AUMF vote, just to make sure they were on record as supporting military action in Iraq and wouldn't get painted the color they got painted after the first Gulf War. Then, they manufactured the dishonest "Bush lied about WMDs" accusation, which all but the dumbest of them know is a lie itself. I get the point of that, though, which was to weaken Bush somehow, and the calculation was made -- just like it was during Vietnam -- that the resulting political advantage would be worth our loss in Iraq, the attendant slaughter of thousands of innocents in the aftermath, etc. The thing I don't get is the venom directed at Lieberman. Sure, he's the only one left who hasn't sold out to the get-Bush-at-any-cost political strategy, but even if just to hedge their bets, you'd think they'd want to be able to say they still have a few hawks in the party, considering the larger issue of impending national elections. So what that Lieberman hasn't signed onto a political strategy? There must be an underlying principle I'm missing. What is it? They care so much about the American servicemen we've lost? We know that isn't it. The kiss?

I don't get it.

Specter

Jane,

From Lamont's site:

At this critical time in the Middle East, I believe that when Israel’s security is threatened, the United States must unambiguously stand with our ally to be sure that it is safe and secure. On this principle, Americans are united.

But for the first time since Israel’s founding, the United States has lost influence and the diplomatic initiative in the region. We can, and must, do better.

Unlike previous administrations – Republican and Democratic – President Bush has embraced the wrong priorities in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. He missed a great opportunity to exercise constructive leadership at the time when Mahmoud Abbas became president of the Palestinian Authority. And he broke with decades of bipartisan understanding that it was the American responsibility to hold down active hostilities in the Middle East so that talking and diplomacy would be possible.

It goes on here, but the gist is that Bush made a wrong decision in this conflict. Nothing about Joe Lieberman. Just more of "Bush is bad". Fits right in with his continuing campaign.

Paul Zrimsek
But for the first time since Israel’s founding, the United States has lost influence and the diplomatic initiative in the region. We can, and must, do better.

Israel was founded sometime after 1979? Nu, so who knew?

Patton

""What is your point in going after Ned Lamont as if there were some scandal or something?""

Herbert, you must know the history. Look at Lamonts backers and all they have said in the past and then look how Ned betrays their beliefs and they excuse it for one reason..they have BDS.

Google Jane Hamsher and Haliburton and see how crazy she is on the subject. Now we learn Ned Lamont was one of Cheneys bosses.

noah

Except for occasionally making sense on foreign policy, Lieberman is a reliable vote for the Senate Democrat caucus' only weapon...the filibuster (actual filibusters are quite rare but the threat is ubiquitous and it takes days to arrange for a vote to get a vote!).

If not for this tactic we would no doubt be building nuclear power plants and drilling in ANWR, as well as many other rational things.

For this reason there is not a nickel's worth of difference between Lieberman and Lamont...from my perspective anyway.

Patton

What is going on with the left and Lieberman is the same thing that is going on in Spain:

In Spain, anti-Semitism is new leftist trend

Spanish Jews knew there were hard times ahead. Prime Minister Zapatero has not disappointed them..

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3278919,00.html

topsecretk9

--Does anyone care to venture as to whether Greenwald used a nom de sockpuppet in comments here at JOM?--

Maybe, I think if he does it's not so much to toot his own horn but, not to be seen by his followers engaging too much with those beneath him...wingnut peons.

The guy is a hysterical, knee-jerk reacting trip.

topsecretk9

--Google Jane Hamsher and Haliburton and see how crazy she is on the subject. Now we learn Ned Lamont was one of Cheneys bosses.--

I have to admit this one interests me.

I could care less if Lamont has Halliburton stock (hey i hope he has WallMart too!), but it's the left who defined Hallibuton chiefly responsible for the war and defined Hallibuton as fundamentally evil (and DON'T even bring up Cheney and Halliburton)

and here, when faced with the reality their guy invests in Halliburton -- i.e. supporting the war under their own terms-- it's a distraction, it doesn't matter, it's only a story if we make it a big deal

Which really just goes to show how hollow and what a bunch of BS the whole Hallibuton trashing is and how hollow and full of BS they really are.

boris

Doesn't actually bother me but the CFR hypocrits have it coming.

Jeff: "This is a joke, right?"

Not this time. The proponents of CFR are the ones who bitch the loudest about self financing. Proponents of CFR are mostly on the left. A self financed candidate from the left should not expect a free pass from the right on the issue. After all, it's not the financing .... IT"S THE HYPOCRISY.

Freaknik

If proponents of CFR are mostly on the left, how in the hell did it get through two Republican congresses, signed into law by Bush (who was too scared to veto it) and upheld by the majority Republican appointed Supreme Court?

Gary Maxwell

I am pulling for Ned Lamont. You could say I am feeling sorry for Kos and his oh for life batting average (and you would be wrong). No its a lot simpler than that. Once the primary is history and its quite clear that the lunatics do in fact control the asylum of the Democrat party, and then Lieberman cruises to an incredibly easy win in the general election as an Independent, the lunatics will be enraged. And everyone will hear all about it, in full technicolor language. And since it will be clear that the far left cant even run competitively in one of the bluest of blue states, they will be shown to be the losers that they are. It would be a good thing for our democracy for the Democrats to field some candidates that I would consider voting for, at least once in awhile. There aint many now, and thats not a good thing for our democracy.

On Greenwald, its amazing how close all those glowing comments are about the fabulousness of one Glenn Greenwald are. Think of exactly how large of sense of inadequacy he must have, to resort to pumpinng himself up with sock puppetry on multiple blogs. The time commitment alone means he has no life. The Wizard of Oz said "pay no attention to that man in the booth, I am the all powerful Oz." Very appropriate.

noah

Freaknik...not being a Republican can't speak for them but CFR (McCain-Feingold for example) is almost uniformly opposed by conservatives who mostly favor just full disclosure of donors.

The Left and Democrats on the other hand mostly favors going even further...witness the calls for reinstituting the fairness doctrine which would have the effect of silencing talk radio.

Jane

"At this critical time in the Middle East, I believe that when Israel’s security is threatened, the United States must unambiguously stand with our ally to be sure that it is safe and secure. On this principle, Americans are united.

But for the first time since Israel’s founding, the United States has lost influence and the diplomatic initiative in the region."

Seems to me those are contradictory statements. Standing with Israel right now equates to an unwillingness to deal with this confict diplomatically - at least at this time.

The last thing we need is another appeaser.

ordi

OT

Last night, Hugh Hewitt asked Erwin Chemerinsky about Joe and Val. There is a little bit of news in this interview! Seems Joe and Val really don't need the money their are attempt to raise. In this interview Chemerinsky does not sound as smart as he is billed to be, either that or he is total vacate of the "facts" of this case.


HH: I'm joined now by Erwin Chemerinsky, professor of law at Duke University Law School, John Eastman, my colleague, professor of law at Chapman University Law School. John from the right, Erwin from the left. We've got to cover the just war theory as applied to Israel's response to the Lebanon terror attacks mounted by Hezbollah. But first, Erwin, you're of counsel to Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame.

EC: I am. I'm co-counsel in their lawsuit against Dick Cheney, Lewis Libby and Karl Rove. It was filed last Thursday in the United States District Court for the District of Columbia.

HH: Please tell me you're getting paid, Erwin.

EC: I'm not. I'm doing this pro bono.

HH: Unbelievable. Now Erwin, of course it's all nonsense, and Joe Wilson...what are you going to do when he gets on the stand and people try and reconcile his eight different versions of what he said and did?

EC: Oh, I don't think there's eight different versions. I think we have an extremely strong case. Here's what we all know at this point. Joseph Wilson wrote an op-ed in the New York Times, in which he showed that there were falsehoods in President Bush's State of the Union address. As a result of that, the Vice President, his top aide, Lewis Libby, and the President's key political advisor, Karl Rove, decided to reveal that Valerie Plame was a secret CIA operative. They did so by telling journalists like Robert Novak this, and was reported by Robert Novak in a column published three weeks ago Friday. You know, I've heard you and John say so many times that those who release classified information commit treason. The first President Bush said there's nothing more despicable than revealing the identity of a secret CIA agent. I think you should share my outrage here, and I think both of you should volunteer, along with me, to represent Valerie Plame Wilson and Joseph Wilson.

HH: I'll let John respond in just one second. But has Joe Wilson contradicted himself as to his public accounts of what happened?

JE: He has, and it's pretty well documented, both before the 9/11 Commission and in House representatives' investigation into this, that his official report was distinctly different from what he published in the New York Times.

HH: Erwin, do you agree with that?

EC: I do not agree with that at all. I think his official report was he found no evidence that Iraq was trying to purchase uranium from Africa.

HH: Did the 9/11 Commission find differently?

JE: It did.

HH: Erwin?

EC: I don't...I would have to go back, to be honest, and look at what the 9/11 Commission found.

HH: You haven't looked at that yet???

EC: I read it, but I sure didn't look at this aspect of it, since...

HH: And you took the case???

EC: Oh, this has nothing to do with the case. You know, even if everything Joseph Wilson said was wrong, and as far as I know it was quite true, it still was completely inappropriate to reveal that his wife was a secret CIA agent, solely for retaliation, because they didn't like what he was saying.

HH: John Eastman...

EC: If you disagree with him, reveal what he's saying is wrong. Attack him. But don't reveal that his wife's a secret agent for the CIA.

HH: John Eastman, Joe Wilson's a liar.

JE: Well, he is, and two, it wasn't just for mere retaliation purposes. Valerie Plame, at the time, was understood to be the person who was responsible, or at least involved, in the decision to send Joe Wilson over to Niger to look at this. The administration was trying to figure out how this guy, and how a cabal in the CIA who were so obviously anti-administration position, could have played such a pivotal role in trying to undercut the administration's policies. I think it was perfectly fair game for the administration to say we've got somebody over in CIA who's partly responsible for this, and to disclose to the press that connection, so we have the full story.

EC: I want to respond.

JE: Now the complaint that Erwin...

HH: Of course, Erwin. I'll let you. Go ahead.

JE: Yeah, the complaint that Erwin has filed makes no allegation that any of the disclosures were done knowing that Valerie Plame was a classified CIA operative, other than just an employee over there. And I think that's pretty important.

HH: Go ahead, Erwin.

EC: I apologize for interrupting. I thought that John was done. John, if you're going to use strong languages like liar, you should be sure what you're saying is accurate. And in this instance, the CIA verified that Joseph Wilson was not sent because of any suggestion, or even with the knowledge of Valerie Plame Wilson. She had absolutely nothing to do with why Joseph Wilson was sent to Africa and to Iraq to see whether or not there was the purchasing of uranium. And the allegation of the complaint is that her status as a secret CIA operative was private, that here what you had was public disclosure of private facts. You had it as retaliation for free speech, and I think that states many claims under the Constitution under tort law.

HH: All right. Now I want to switch...

JE: Hang on. Let me go back, because that's not what I said, Erwin. I said at the time, there was some indication that Valerie Plame may have been involved in the decision to send Joe Wilson over. She was his wife, and she was working at the CIA. It was that that made it fair game to discuss, so we get the full story of how this thing came to be, and what his bias in the reporting might be, so that we can understand the veracity of it, and whether he is trying to skew what he learned because of an animosity toward the administration. That's perfectly fair game, and it is routine politics in Washington. And to make a federal case out of it is, I think, bordering on frivolous. And beyond that, it's...I think it's fairly clearly going to get dismissed on various immunity grounds.

HH: All right. Now I've got to switch, gentlemen........

So Erwin, why did you take that Plame case again?

Extraneus

What is going on with the left and Lieberman is the same thing that is going on in Spain

Anti-semitism certainly would explain a piece of it, Patton. And this from Lamont surely deserves some thought:

President Bush has embraced the wrong priorities in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. He missed a great opportunity to exercise constructive leadership at the time when Mahmoud Abbas became president of the Palestinian Authority. And he broke with decades of bipartisan understanding that it was the American responsibility to hold down active hostilities in the Middle East so that talking and diplomacy would be possible.

I didn't know that was our responsibility. And considering the fact that Israel's enemies are bent on getting better and better weapons until they can hope to kill all the Jews once and for all someday, it doesn't seem like necessarily the best course of action if you're pro-Israel, either. We can assume Lieberman is pro-Israel. Without accusing anyone of anti-semitism, doesn't this sort of comment imply that Lamont is less so?

capitano
Lamont being a nanti-war insurgent and all.

Did you mean a nancy-boy insurgent?

noah

Glenn Greenwald...sock puppeteer...what a hoot!

(But then didn't he write a piece saying that its ok for the Left to lie?)

ordi

If Erwin is doing this pro-Bono then why are Joe and Val raising funds? Erwin doesn't even know the basic facts of this case.

Did Erwin make news in this interview or did he misspeak or is the transciption incorrect? Here is the part I am talking about:

EC: I apologize for interrupting. I thought that John was done. John, if you're going to use strong languages like liar, you should be sure what you're saying is accurate. And in this instance, the CIA verified that Joseph Wilson was not sent because of any suggestion, or even with the knowledge of Valerie Plame Wilson. She had absolutely nothing to do with why Joseph Wilson was sent to Africa and to Iraq to see whether or not there was the purchasing of uranium. And the allegation of the complaint is that her status as a secret CIA operative was private, that here what you had was public disclosure of private facts. You had it as retaliation for free speech, and I think that states many claims under the Constitution under tort law.

Did Joe go to Iraq too?

DwightKSchrute

Focusing on the whole Iraq war support issue is missing the bigger point in the Lamont vs Lieberman tussle. Plain and simple Lieberman time and time again breaks the Reagan commandment: "Don't speak ill of other party members". There are other Dems (Bill Nelson, Pryor, Landrieu, Ben Nelson) that still stand firm on their Iraq stance, but the difference is they don't throw their fellow Dems under the bus every chance they get. On top of that the gushing support he gets from Hannity, Coulter, Limbaugh, Bush is irksome to Dems. Is that being petty? Well just how far would a Republican get with Arianna, Michael Moore, Kos, and Hillary Clinton fawning all over them?

ordi

When Nelson, Pryor, Landrieu and Nelson vote against the Lib interest aren't they throwing their follow Dems agenda under the bus? IMO, there is difference. But I am not a Dem so what do I know about Dems/Libs. :)

ordi

Opps should have been: IMO, there is NO difference.

Extraneus

On top of that the gushing support he gets from Hannity, Coulter, Limbaugh, Bush is irksome to Dems. Is that being petty?

Perfectly understandable if the reason for the support was related to his position on domestic issues, but it's not.

verner

Dwight--McCain. Nuff said.

And as for Joe Lieberman, it's not just his support for the war, it's also his support for Israel. (translation, he's no better than those other Jewish neo-cons.)

Hate to say it, but there is a strong stench of anti-semitism on the moonbat left. Unless you're Jewish in the same way that Noam Chomsky is Jewish of course. And did you catch the photo-op of ole NOAM with hezbollah in Beiruit just a few weeks ago?

DwightKSchrute

Ordi - They're both bad but difference is that voting is subtle whereas badmouthing party members is not only personal but also public grandstanding. You may see Snowe, Chaffee, Collins, etc. vote the wrong way, but you rarely see them get all over the airwaves and chide other party members.

DwightKSchrute

Verner - Which part of McCain is "nuff said"? His speech at the 2008 straw poll event "For the next three years," McCain said, "with the country at war, he's our President, and the only one who must have our support today."? Or maybe his flip flop on Jerry Falwell? Wait perhaps it was this quote about Bush's poll numbers “I’ve tried, when his numbers went down, to be more supportive and outspoken, because I’d love to pick him up,”?

topsecretk9

--There are other Dems (Bill Nelson, Pryor, Landrieu, Ben Nelson) that still stand firm on their Iraq stance, but the difference is they don't throw their fellow Dems under the bus every chance they get.--


This is why they hate Liberman, it's not even his war support so much...it's that he is respected and liked by Bush.

It's that shallow.

topsecretk9

--Hate to say it, but there is a strong stench of anti-semitism on the moonbat left.--

Oh boy, is there ever.

Specter

Dwight,

Machts Nicht! Herr Lieberman will win hands down - that is because so many Republicans vote for him. That is what Neddy doesn't get. You see - he wants to only appease the moonbat left. He is not a middle-of-the-road politician and Lieberman is. Done deal!

verner

Dwight:

"Well just how far would a Republican get with Arianna, Michael Moore, Kos, and Hillary Clinton fawning all over them?"

That's what I was talking about. And as for Lieberman, other than being hawkish on the war, he's pretty much a straight party man. There's not much there for a conservative to love.

Rick Ballard

"There's not much there for a conservative to love."

Not unless you love a camera hog with a rainbow set of principles - fully adaptable to whatever today calls for. I really wish he would team up with McCain and run, if there were some way they could run for the Presidency in the same year as their Senate term came up.

The air will be fresher when both of them are out of politics.

DwightKSchrute

verner and topsecretk9 - Careful with that flamable rhetoric. Especially when it's way off base. Or was that the objective?

Lets see here, Jewish Democrats in Senate: Levin, Leiberman, Feinstein, Boxer, Feingold, Wyden, Shumer. Republicans: Spector, Coleman (hey at least they have each other). I won't bother listing all the house names but trust me it's around 14-2 Dem vs Repub.

Race or religion baiting is a distasteful smear. Especially when it comes from a side that is on the wrong end of the facts. Unless of course you use the Rove playbook as your guide.

verner

Look Dwight, sorry if you can't handle the truth. Try taking an Israeli flag to an anti-war demo and see how far you get. And that IS the dem base now.

Which of the above mentioned in the senate are as staunch a supporter of both Israel and the war as Lieberman? As I said, even Chomsky is a jew. You're not getting the point.

topsecretk9

--Careful with that flamable rhetoric. Especially when it's way off base.--

that was not flamable...and IMHO it's not way off base.

Extraneus

I think the best-case scenario is Lamont wins the primary, Lieberman wins the election, and the Dems diss him so bad in the process that he joins the Republicans. I'd take him over some of the less-principled ones already in the Senate (already listed in various posts above).

Extraneus

Go Lamont!

Rick

Yeah, let's hear it for Inbred Ned!

Cordially...

Patton

Dwight:
""Race or religion baiting is a distasteful smear. Especially when it comes from a side that is on the wrong end of the facts.""

Guess you missed the Anti-Semites at the DNC...how soon we forget...or are you just covering for the Jew haters??

Even Howard Dean said the Democrats were distributing Anti-Semetic literature at the DNC, that's not Republicans making that claim, that's Dean himself.

Patton

Hey Dwight, don't forget, Ted Kennedy and Mother Theresa were both Catholics too.

What's your point, that the Democrat party has alot of non-practicing Jews who only run to their religion when they have run off the road drunk and killed a girl??

Patton

Let's just recall what the Jew haters at the DNC were up to since Dwight has such a bad memory:

""According to Dean, some material distributed within the DNC conference room implied that Israel was involved in the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

One witness, former intelligence analyst Ray McGovern, told Conyers and other House Democrats that the war was part of an effort to allow the United States and Israel to "dominate that part of the world," a statement Dean also condemned."""

Gee, the Jews were responsible for Sept 11th hey Dwight?? And at DNC headquaters no less. And no the hard left that pushes that line has the nooses out for Lieberman..go figure.

verner

Patton, it's kind of the way white racists viewed african-americans in the segregated south. There were "good" ones, and "bad" ones.

I don't think I have to draw you a picture.

richard mcenroe

Ned Lamont needs to get those political experts George Harleigh and Terry Wilkinson on his team...

Soylent Red

This whole Lamont issue, IMO, has fundamentally to do with this:

Lieberman is not visceral enough in his Bush-hatred.

Everything else, including the Iraq issue, is excuse making after the fact. The center of Lamont's candidacy is Bush-hate, around which all else orbits.

In fact, my guess is that much of the '06 and '08 campaigns, for the moonbat left, will revolve around where a candidate falls on the spectrum of Bush-hate.

Gee...does any one remember when Democrats defined themselves by what they were, rather than what they were not?

narciso

It would be tragic, for the Democrats if Lieberman lost; after all, he's the only
truly stalwart GWOT backer;The last of
the Scoop Jackson faction. Yes you have
Biden, who says he supports it, but then
puts niggling conditions into it; whining
about troop strength, disbanding of the Iraqi army, et al.(Considering how hard it's been to main 150,000 troops; due to dependence of Nat. Guard and Res. forces, long supply lines, and the antagonizing factor of their mere presence, would 300,000 to 400,000 have fared better; would letting the Baathist "Murder Incorporated" in the government led to civic peace particularly with the Shia and Kurds; who constitute the majority. No, I don't think so either. As to the larger war, would they have backed a sizable expeditionary force to root around in Waziristan, and other Pashtun enclaves of Pakistan. In our own neck of the woods we have Bill Nelson, who not only argues he was tricked into voting yes on the Iraq War; but was ecstatic about Fahr. 9/11. Nelson's fmr. colleague, Bob Graham,
used to argue that going to Iraq, prevented
us from going after the real threat in Syria,Lebanon, and Saudi Arabia; not too mention Iran. The fact, that we are now
in a position to move against these three
elements if we had the will, that's the
key. Do you think a Dem. Administration,
staffed with CAP appointees like Morton
Halperin and the like: following the wishes of Marcos "Screw Um" Kos, would do any of this; Neither do I.

topsecretk9

Thanks for the link Rich...what a trip.

maryrose

First I am thrilled that Imus called Lamont a pencil-necked geek with a ton of dough. He calls as he sees them and I remember during the dem primary season in 04 Imus had Lieberman and his wife on his show chatting and it was a very interesting. They are both upstanding people and the dems allowing this primary challenge to happen just shows how incredibly tone deaf and stupid they are. Clinton is the kiss of death for anyone he campaigns for. {Kerry, Gray Davis numerous house candidatesand the list goes on... ]Clinton is poison on the campaign trail so ...
The only thing wrong with Lieberman is he isn't Republican.

DwightKSchrute

So I guess that when first running for president before a trip to Israel, Bush said that he would tell Israeli Jews they were all "going to hell." that was just a knee slapper. Of course that kind of runs in the family doesn't it? I mean seeing as how during H.W. Bush's '94 campaign he had to fire several of his campaign staff after it was discovered that several had strong anti-semitic pasts including holocaust revisionist Jerome Brentar. But what would one expect from the offspring of a solid guy like Prescott Bush. His company's assets had to be seized for continued massive dealings with Nazi Germany, even after the US entered WWII.

I'd imagine Repubilcans would have a problem with that. Maybe we can ask stalwart commentator Christopher Hitchens. He seems to know a lot about anti-semitism seeing as he enjoys promoting and defending holocaust denying writers.

verner

Dwight:

"But what would one expect from the offspring of a solid guy like Prescott Bush. His company's assets had to be seized for continued massive dealings with Nazi Germany, even after the US entered WWII."

Honey, since we're discussing ancient history-- would you like to discuss Joe Kennedy or Henry Ford (founder of the Ford dynasty from whom the anti-war left is getting a lot of it's money)? Nope, thought not.

And as for holocaust deniers--pretty disgusting when you can't tell the difference between the anti-war left and David Duke. You really don't want to start this, do you? Especially on the day that Charles at LGF is publishing some rather disgusting remarks made by the left's beloved KOS.

lurker

You're good, Verner!

Actually, more than one day that Charles at LGF publishing those really, really disgusting DKOS remarks.

As long as we stand by Israel, Israel has a chance.

Counterterroismblog just reported that the terrorists from southeast Asia are traveling to Lebanon to fight with Hizbollah. But that's what they did for Bosnia and other places. They didn't last long.

topsecretk9

--Bush said that he would tell Israeli Jews they were all "going to hell." that was just a knee slapper. --

I do not recall this. Do you have a site or reference? Rumors, pretend quotes and phantom experts seem to be the trend.

However, I did see these at Democratic underground so...

Why does Israel have a right to exist... when it seems that much of the world believes that the Islamic Republic of Iran or the Democratic People's Republic of Korea don't have a right to exist?

The "Israeli Jewish Nation" is no different. It has no more or less right to exist than any other. If Iran or North Korea are threatened with regime change because of their beliefs and actions then there is no reason why the nation of Israel should not. In fact Israel encouraged that very act in Iraq - so they can not even claim to be expecting to be treated as they treat others. They have no problem with the state of Iraq being eradicated, so why should I have a problem with the state of Israel being eradicated?

Rick Ballard

TS,

We can't be sure that Thurston Howell III actually agrees with the KosolaKidz and DUers. Primarily because his brainwave activity is not particularly noticeable until he hears "Bush". That starts the saliva flowing and his minders have to slap a lobster bib on him to keep him from ruining another tux.

JM Hanes

Dwight

"So I guess that when first running for president before a trip to Israel, Bush said that he would tell Israeli Jews they were all "going to hell." that was just a knee slapper."

I can just imagine where you picked that up -- of course, I suppose you could prove me wrong by linking to a credible source.

sam

07/20/06 nbcsandiego: Local Marine Fights For Life After Bomb Blast
Lance Cpl. Don Fowler...was on his third deployment to Iraq when a suicide bomber detonated a bomb near a hospital... is on his way to a military hospital in Maryland. He is in a drug-induced coma with serious injuries to both his arms and legs.

07/20/06 CSM: The vulnerable line of supply to US troops in Iraq
American forces in Iraq are in danger of having their line of supply cut by guerrillas. Napoleon once said that "an army travels on its stomach." By that he meant that the problem of keeping an army supplied is the prerequisite for the very existence...

07/20/06 NYTimes: In Baghdad, bakers are the targets
BAGHDAD The front line in this city's sectarian war runs through Edrice al-Aaraji's backyard. He is a Shiite and a baker. So are his two brothers..."To shut down a well-known bakery in a neighborhood, that means you paralyze life there,"

07/20/06 DoD: Soldier's injuries lead to heart failure
A Land O'Lakes soldier who was struck by a roadside bomb in Iraq in October died Sunday of heart failure caused by the stress of his injuries. He was 27. Army Spc. Raymond A. Salerno III's ...suffered third-degree burns on both hands...

07/20/06 Reuters: Gunmen kill family in Mosul
Gunmen killed five members of a family -- a man and four women -- in their home in Mosul, 390 km (240 miles) north of Baghdad, police said.

07/20/06 Reuters: Four guards are killed as police chief escapes attack
Brigadier Muhammad Ali, the police chief of the town of Baghdadi in Iraq's western al-Anbar province, said he had escaped a roadside bomb attack on his convoy but four of his guards were killed and two wounded.

07/20/06 DoD Identifies Army Casualty
Sgt. Mark R. Vecchione, 25, of Tucson Ariz, died on July 18 in Ar Ramadi, Iraq, of injuries sustained when an improvised explosive device detonated near his M1A1 Abrams tank. Vecchione was assigned to the 1st Battalion, 37th Armor Regiment

07/20/06 DoD Identifies Marine Casualty
Lance Cpl. Geofrey R. Cayer, 20, of Fitchburg, Mass., died July 18 from a non-hostile incident in Al Anbar province, Iraq. He was assigned to 3rd Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, I Marine Expeditionary Force

07/20/06 KUNA: Governor of Mosul survives assassination attempt
The governor of Mosul Duraide Muhammad Kashmula survived Thursday an assassination attempt after a bomb exploded near his convoy in the city of Mosul in Northern Iraq.

07/20/06 Salvadoran Soldier Identified
una patrulla de miembros del VI Contingente del Batallón Cuscatlán que se encuentra en Iraq...el Subsargento José Miguel Perdomo sufrió heridas en el costado izquierdo del tórax y falleció mientras era trasladado hacia este centro de atención.

07/20/06 AP: Baghdad attacks up 40 percent
U.S. spokesman Maj. Gen. William Caldwell said there has been an average of 34 attacks a day against U.S. and Iraqi forces in the capital over the past five days. The daily average for the period June 14 until July 13 was 24 a day, he said.

07/20/06 ARNews: Medal of Honor hero greets - Staff Sgt. Josh Forbess
Staff Sgt. Josh Forbess, a burn patient recovering from a 12th surgery after surviving a helicopter crash, said he often thinks the word “hero” is overused, but not in this case.

07/20/06 ARNews: Medal of Honor hero greets - Staff Sgt. Nathan Reed
For Staff Sgt. Nathan Reed, the visit by the Medal of Honor recipient was especially meaningful. Reed, a 4th Infantry Division Soldier, lost his right leg when a roadside bomb exploded May 30 in Baghdad.

07/20/06 AP: Twelve killed after lured near Iraq car bomb (update)
Iraqi police say a car bomb has killed 12 people who had gathered around a vehicle after discovering a corpse inside. A police captain says the victims were staring at the car parked at a gas station when it blew up.

07/20/06 capeargus: Thousands of Iraqis flee as violence reaches new levels
Thousands of Iraqis have fled their homes in fear of sectarian violence that has worsened since the formation of a US-backed national unity government two months ago, official data shows today.

07/20/06 KUNA: MNF chopper crashed in southern Iraq
A Multi-National Forces (MNF) chopper crashed Wednesday in southern Iraq, according to eyewitness reports. Eyewitnesses told KUNA Thursday, a Polish chopper crashd near a MNF military base in Diwaniya, southern Iraq.

07/20/06 AP: Top Shiite cleric calls Iraqis to stop violence against each other
Iraq's top Shiite cleric Thursday called on Iraqis to work together to halt sectarian violence, warning that the future of the nation is at stake.

07/20/06 Reuters: US forces surround Iraq towns in Qaeda operation
U.S. and Iraqi forces surrounded and entered two towns near the northern Iraqi city of Kirkuk on Thursday in search of suspected al Qaeda militants, the military said on Thursday.

07/20/06 NPR: Serious Injury a Daily Risk for Iraqi Soldiers
But when it comes to injured Iraqi troops, there are no reliable numbers. U.S. and Iraqi military officials do agree that the number is much higher. We tell the story of one Iraqi soldier who recently suffered serious injuries while on patrol.

07/20/06 Reuters: Former Baath Party member killed in Kerbala
Gunmen killed a former member of the ousted Baath Party as he was leaving his house in the Shi'ite city of Kerbala, 110 km (68 miles) southwest of Baghdad, police said.

07/20/06 KUNA: Three killed in Baghdad car bomb
Three people were killed Thursday and tens of others injured when a booby-trapped car blasted in Baghdad, Iraqi police announced.

07/20/06 Reuters: Gunmen kidnap and kill policeman in Falluja
Gunmen kidnapped and killed a policeman in Falluja, 50 km (35 miles) west of Baghdad, police said.

07/20/06 Reuters: Two bodies found near Balad
The bodies of two people with gunshot wounds were found near Balad, 80 km (50 miles) north of Baghdad, police said

07/20/06 Reuters: Body of translater found near Tikrit
The body of a translator for U.S. forces was found near Tikrit with gunshot wounds, police said. He was kidnapped on Tuesday, police added.

07/20/06 Reuters: Policeman killed in Tikrit
Gunmen killed a police officer near a checkpoint in Tikrit, 175 km (110 miles) north of Baghdad, police said.

07/20/06 AP: More Hostages Released on Baghdad Street
Four more people seized last weekend at a sports conference have been found blindfolded and dumped unharmed in an east Baghdad neighborhood, officials said Thursday. There was no word on the fate of Iraq's Olympic committee chairman.

07/20/06 KUNA: Up to 10 Iraqis hit by car bomb attack in Kirkuk
Up to 10 Iraqis, including six policemen were injured in Iraq Thursday due to the explosion of a booby-trapped car in the northern Iraqi city of Kirkuk.

07/20/06 kcci: Iowa Soldier Injured In Roadside Bomb Attack
An Iowa soldier is recovering after a roadside bomb attack Sunday in Iraq. Sgt. Justin Abernathy, 24, of Hazleton is receiving treatment at a German hospital. Abernathy is part of the Iowa National Guard's 133rd Infantry B Company.

07/20/06 softpedia: Gruesome Discovery in Baghdad
Iraqi police reported today that it had made one of the most dramatic discoveries ever since sectarian violence escalated in the Iraqi capital, meaning 38 dead bodies that bore the signs of torture, in less than a 24 hour period, CNN informs.

07/20/06 Reuters: Gunmen kill three engineers in Baiji
Gunmen killed three engineers working in the oil refinery in Baiji, 180 km (112 miles) north of Baghdad, police said.

07/20/06 Reuters: Roadside bomb wounds Iraqi army officer in Diwaniya
An Iraqi army officer was wounded when a roadside bomb went off near a joint Iraqi and Polish patrol in the southern city of Diwaniya, 180 km (112 miles) south of Baghdad, the Iraqi army said

07/20/06 Reuters: Gunmen kidnapped and kill taxi driver in Diwaniya
Gunmen kidnapped and killed a taxi driver, who was a former member of the ousted Baath Party, on Thursday in Diwaniya, police said.

07/20/06 Cenctcom: MARINE KILLED IN AL ANBAR PROVINCE
A Marine assigned to 1st Brigade, 1st Armored Division died due to enemy action while operating in Al Anbar Province today.

topsecretk9

-Posted by: sam | July 20, 2006 at 10:23 PM-

You fool.

I remember distinctly your post detailing all the innocents lying in a pool of their own blood after the balloons descended on their village...mothers holding their children as the lay in a ditch gasping for air....


hypocrite.

the men you think you care for didn't die in vain for you, but for your freedom to desecrate their sacrifice.


you make me sick.

sam

"didn't die in vain for you, but for your freedom to desecrate their sacrifice"

Which of my rights and liberties as listed in the US constitution are our troops defending?

topsecretk9

SPEECH

sam

My freedom of speech was not being limited by Iraqis.

topsecretk9

Nor was it by the Balkans...

sam

So what you are saying is that you
are wrong and that my freedom of speech was not being threatened by Iraqis. Which of my rights or liberties as listed in the US constitution are our troops defending?

topsecretk9

No, what I am saying is your are obviously not grateful for the sacrifice military personal have made EVER in order for you to pretend you care for them. Really, Is the point I am making.

sam

Read your previous comments.That is not at all what you said.

I am grateful for the sacrifices that US servicemen and women have made. In Iraq they are not defending any of my rights
under the US constitution.

topsecretk9

No you aren't.

JM Hanes

sam:

Since you forgot to explain what this has to do with Lamont, I'll just assume you're agreeing that he's a one issue candidate.

The comments to this entry are closed.

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