Lieberman V. Lamont

Here is some coverage of the Lieberman-Lamont debate; Times, WaPo, MSNBC, transcript.

Allahpundit of HotAir liveblogged from the right; as a representative of the Angry left, let's pick out Jane Hamsher of firedoglake (rabiddoglake?).

I thought Lieberman swung between aggressive and avuncular, although an aggressive Joe Lieberman sounds like a normal human asking for a bit more sugar on his oatmeal.

Lamont seemed like the perfect realization of the nutroots vision - tense, angry, and a vessel for every tired Democratic nostrum of the last decade.  He's for universal health care!  I was only sorry that no one gave him a chance to complete the pain-relieving coma-induction by asking him to air his views on the minimum wage, or Santa Claus.  I take that back - a Santa Claus question would have posed some tough Church/State issues...

Well, if a guy with the odd $100 million can pick up a Senate seat by passing as an anti-war traditional Democrat, why not?  This is the land of opportunity.

Comments

[Other Tom]

Only poll I've seen of a three-way contest in November, with Lieberman running as an independent, shows him winning in a huge landslide. This is no doubt aided by the fact that the GOP is fielding a cipher. This would be an absolutely wonderful rebuke to the Kos Krzies.

[Pisistratus]

So when all the right wing blogs were pulling for Toomey to take out the squishy Arlen Spectre-was that a "nutroots" things too?

If Republicans love Lieb so much-nominate him.

[ed]

Hmmmm.

Less Lamont, More Kerry!

Sorry, bad joke there.

Franky I'm of two minds and I'm not certain which is the better result.

A. Lieberman being shoved out the Democratic airlock and losing his seat.

B. Lieberman running as an independent and winning.

The only problem is that Lieberman has already stated that he'd continue voting right along with other Democrats. That alone is leading me to the "A" result.

I really don't see the purpose of helping to elect someone who votes Democrat. Frankly we do that enough already with Olympia Snowe and Chaffee.

[Pisistratus]

Lieb as an independent would have a short shelf life. Repubs would have an opportunity to take out Lamont and put in an actual Republican. To support Lieb's independent candidacy, Repubs would have to be stupid...

Never mind.

[Annoying Old Guy]

There's plenty of good reasons why the GOP is the Stupid Party.

[BumperStickerist]

when all the right wing blogs were pulling for Toomey to take out the squishy Arlen Spectre-was that a "nutroots" things too?

Yes.

But the RightWing nutroots don't have conventions where the art of tinfoil hatmaking is demonstrated.

fwiw, YearlyKos was held at Las Vegas and had an attendance of around 1,000.

Were yKos held in Roswell, New Mexico there'd have been 1,500-2,000.

[pgl]

rabiddoglake? Ahem.

BTW - I agree with Kevin Drum. This whole CT squabble is boring California Democrats even if Barbara Boxer is supporting someone she completely disagrees with re the Iraq thing. DiFi supporting Joe I can understand - but Barbara?

[steve sturm]

I find it amusing that were Lamont to win, it would have no effect at all on how Bush is waging the war in Iraq. Does Lamont and his backers really think Bush is going to call it quits if Lieberman loses? And while there might be some CT Democrats who want to punish Lieberman for having supported the war, they seem to not recognize that Bush was going into Iraq with or without Lieberman's blessing.

[maryrose]

Jeffords has survived very nicely for 6years as an Independent why couldn't Lieberman?
Pis:
What you fail to realize is that in 2000 dems had it wrong with Gore at the top of the ticket. There are many Independents who would have voted for Lieberman for President because he's a nicer guy and has more moral principles than Clinton or Gore ever had. Did you know that Gore was pro-life once? Then it became politically inconvenient for him so he switched. Gore-Clinton-not men of principle. Lieberman -a religious, honest good person. The American people see and know this because they don't suffer the dementia of the nutrots. Boxer is smart enough to this alas Hillary according to Carlson and Orin remains clueless and self-absorbed.Television is brutal to Lamont-he looked like a twerp and was terribly unconvincing. Johnnny-one note all the way.

[maryrose]

should read-to know this.

[Pisistratus]

Hey MaryRose-if you forgot, Gore-Lieberman got more votes than Bush-Cheney, just not in Florida (we assume).

In any event, it's a primary for God's sake. Some people want to vote against the incumbent and they get called nuts. Does Lieberman have some god-given right to the seat?

Should incumbent senators be excused from primaries?

If your answer is no, why not?

[Neo]

rabiddoglake?

The first time I saw that name it looked like ..

landoflake

.. which was either "land of lake" or "land o' flake"

[Neo]

The whole Lieberman-Lamont thing has the feeling of SNL "Bad Theater".

Well actually, I feel like I'm reliving that thing with Bush-Anderson, but since it's not a Presidential year, they reduced it down to a Senate seat.

I'm still waiting to see who get the part of Dan Quayle.

[Jimmy's Attack Rabbit]

I was hoping there would be some naked code pinkers doing a die in during the debate but I watched anyway. IMO, Joementum carries the day on 8/8 and handily.

[Carol Herman]

If nutroots wasn't a revolving door; then, I'd guess (for $500, Alex), that Joe Lieberman is holding the door open for an Independent, BUT NOT AN ONLY THE LONELY RUN.

In other words, (even though Dr. Frist is LEAVING in November; because he's not running, again) ... somebody on the GOP side may look at Lieberman, all doe eyed. And, give him what would be a GOPster's chair.

In other words, Lieberman does not have to sit, in isolation, in the corner.

HOWEVER, not all donks are stupid. Or drunks. Or members of the Kennedy family. Some are quite disturbed at the crazy goings-on, now, on the left. Especially, because it's making their own rides towards elections ... if not necessarily harder ...

Than "more" expensive. In other words, their contributions go down. The nut at the DC "power station" ... Howie Dean isn't gonna release to them any funds. Because he probably has less to release in the first place.

And, men like Lieberman, when they visit, on a controlled basis, other states, for fund raising activities ... is now consuming this money, himself.

And, causing all sorts of troubles.

Not that I care. I don't. I doubt that Lamont goes anywhere. How so?

There are enough state jobs at stake that people who vote for the donks would realize the short fall if a newcomer like Lamont hit the senate, just at the time that IF WE'RE LUCKY, the purse strings are pulled shut on some of da' pork.

But Connecticut has already experienced the loss of the helicopter (Skorsky?) Well, it sounds something like that. The plum went to NY State. What if other contract follows? You think New Haven is just full of Yalie's?

Anyway, for Koe this is all free publicity, so far. And, he ain't doing badly when you put him up against a nut-rooter like Lamont.

Too bad Guiliani isn't running against Hillary. Too bad the GOP within NY State is in terrible shape. So many "too bads" at a time when strength would'a been better in terms of outcomes.

But there ya go. Politics is like the circus; sans the funny shoes. But still with lots of drunken red noses. Who clamber out of very small vehicles just when a high wire act goes splat.

Do you miss not going to the circus?

[topsecretk9]

Lieberman came off as a rude Republican asshole, with nothing in the tank but personal attacks. as per...rabiddog

Hamsher alone is giving loads of material to the Lieberman people...Rape Gurney Joe? Joe's people should call Lamont to the mat on this.

[Specter]

Speaking from the land of CT:

Most people I know on both sides support Lieberman. I have voted for him in the past and will probably do so again - even if he did screw up on Alito. He is very middle of the road. Lamont has two issues now - vote for me because I don't like Bush and vote for me because I want universal health care. I wonder how we are going to pay for that - I mean Lamont says Bush is bad for spending all the money in Iraq and driving up the deficit, but he would spend all the same money for UHC - How does that help keep the deficit down. Lamont speaks with forked tongue. I bet he will be one of those who pays for polls to be run so he can say what a great guy he is....

[Neo]

rude Republican asshole

As with Ms. Flame, be carful what you wish for.

I went back a few years ago to look at the Gore-Perot NAFTA debate, which everyone says Gore won. Gore was one rude SOB (I'm sure his mama taught him better).

My point, being a rude SOB doesn't necessarily convert into losing, especially a debate.

As for the "Republican" part, if Joe runs as an independent and Lamont as a Dem in November and it gets ugly (say a Howard Dean slur or two), Joe will truly be independent. Should Joe then win, he could have a "Jeffords" moment, and join whatever caucus makes him the best deal.

If you live in CT and want your Senator to bring home the bacon in spades, electing Joe as an independent is your best deal.

[BumperStickerist]

In any event, it's a primary for God's sake. Some people want to vote against the incumbent and they get called nuts. Does Lieberman have some god-given right to the seat?

The people who want to vote against the incumbent aren't necessarily nuts.

The people who can't vote in in the Connecticut election, yet are dunning the people who vote in elections into voting against the incumbent are, demonstrably, nuts. Hence the term 'nutroots'.

Worse, they whine a hell of a lot, too.

[topsecretk9]

Oh boy...Hamsher is doing her best campaigning now!

Since Roger SImon and Ann Altohouse are so vitally critical to the CT Senate race, she is demonstrating her thick lizzard skin and really taking these two on for ---dare we say it? BLOGGING about her---

Hilarious...

[Patton]

http://www.newhavenindependent.org/archives/2006/07/jane_her_poodle.php

Apparently Jane Hamster doesn't mind breaking the laws of Connecticut. Does she realize that driving with a cell phone is ILLEGAL in Connecticut and that driving over 85 MPH is automatically RECKLESS DRIVING.

Someone needs to twell Jane that more people in Connecticut have died due to Reckless driving and speeding since 2001 then all the wars GWB has started.

Over 3,000 died in Connecticut and over 45,000 injured due to people like her who flaunt the laws and do as they please.

Apparently Ned Lamutt doesn't mind that his supporters break Connecticuts laws because he not only links to her site, but links to this very article that outlines her alleged crimes..and I have no reason to believe this reporter is lying when he witnessed the acts himself.

But apparently Jane isn't talking and has so far refused to discuss the issue with law enforcement and admit her crimes and pay her fines.....ahh, another Liberal...do as I say, not as I do...those pesky rules are meant for the little people..not us Hollywood types.

[Sue]

I saw Jeralyn Merritt of Talkleft on Fox the other night. I never put the 2 together for some reason. She is a pundit on their legal shows. I was disappointed that she is Talkleft.

I stay away from Firedoglake. That place is creepy! More so than KOS and DU but I can't explain why.

[BumperStickerist]

what bothers me most about nutroots/lefty activism stuff like 'Rape Gurney Joe' isn't the harsh language - it's the stupidity of the concept.

If it's a take on 'Tailgunner Joe' McCarthy, then we've got instant proof of the 'Kossacks as modern John Birchers' theory floating around. Well played, there FDL.

Also, there was a 'tail gunner' position on the airplane - calling somebody 'Tailgunner' refers to an actual position on an actual aircraft. And, oh, Joe McCarthy served on bombers during WWII.

'Rape Gurney Joe' is, well, just dumb.

For starters, there aren't any 'rape gurneys' - there are gurneys and there are rape kits ... but nothing that passes as "Rape Gurney", even in conversation among medical professionals and trauma specialists.

You can check google if you'd like ....

.... see?

'Rape Gurney' as a perjorative makes no.fucking.sense -

If The Jane Hamsher of the Left needed to come up with a McCarthyite nickname for Joe - why not come up with something that evokes McCarthy without being dumbass. Something like, say, 'Tail Wagger Joe'

You could then try and link everything Joe's done for the past six years to Joe's tailwagging acceptance of his Rovian master's dicta.

You can even make a dirty joke about Joe swallowing so much of Rove's dicta that he must've lost his gag reflex.

Whatever floats your boat, Hamsherites.

But 'Rape Gurney Joe' manages to be offensive and stupid.

Which is a not-so-good combination Lamont-wise.

That said, I hope events unfold such that Lieberman runs as an independent - he'd win handily and the Dems would be in that circular firing squad for at least six months.

[Other Tom]

Pis--you remain imedded with the Slow Reading Group. If Lieberman as an independent would have a "short shelf life," we're better off seeing him elected, since at the end of that shelf life we'd have a good shot at electing a Republican, whereas the current Republican front-runner would lose to Lamont. In the meantime Liebertman supports us on the most important issue of our times. God--no wonder you clowns stay on the outside looking in.

[topsecretk9]

But 'Rape Gurney Joe' manages to be offensive and stupid.

Which is a not-so-good combination Lamont-wise.

Bumper...you hit on something...how ironic would it be if Lamont looses because of the crap his blog supporters say..

You and I could write the copy for Joe's-- Rape Gurney Ad...sheesh these people are D U M B.

[PK]

Sue, from your 2:23 post, I also think the people at FDL are creepy. Very echo chamber-ish and very hostile to the littlest criticism. It will either get deleted (it's her blog, but are we debating or preaching?)or shouted down. I never heard of Ned Lamont until I came across that blog from TM's Libby posts. When I read an MSM report about the debate, I was surprised to learn that Lamont was down by double digits. The echo chamber is so fired up, I just assumed Lamont was either close, or winning. It's just weird there.

[Rick Ballard]

PK,

Nutroots candidates always win. Every time. It's just that it occurs in a parallel universe so it doesn't make the papers here.

[Tom Maguire]

why not come up with something that evokes McCarthy without being dumbass. Something like, say, 'Tail Wagger Joe'

Very good. Now keep it quiet...

[Public Ed]

You lost me at "avuncular". First I thought it was a misspelling, then I figured it was just a really fancy word. Obviously this is one of them 'highbrow sites'.

[Gary Maxwell]

I stay away from Firedoglake. That place is creepy! More so than KOS and DU but I can't explain why.

You are porbably allergic to poodles! Or rabid fothing moonbats, take your pick.

[RecklessJane]

HERE IS A SAD STORY JANE SHOULD TAKE TO THE NEXT NED LAMONT RALLY.

Perhaps if Ned and his groupies would get behind the laws of the state, fewer people would needlessly die.

Drivers On Cell Phones Kill Nearly As Many As Terrorists

–Drivers on Cell Phones Kill Thousands, Snarl Traffic–

“Cell phone distraction causes 2,600 deaths and 330,000 injuries in the United States every year, according to the journal’s publisher, the Human Factors and Ergonomics Society.

maybe Jane can phone it in to the Lamount campaign…ha ha

[Extraneus]

The best-case scenario is for Lieberman to lose the primary, run as an independent, win an ugly general election during which he's dissed big-time, and peel off completely to increase (or maintain) the Republican majority. All it requires is that the Dems be really stupid.

Go Lamont!

[Jimmy's Attack Rabbit]

Gawd, I miss Nada-gate!

[Jimmy's Attack Rabbit]

a.k.a. Plame-gate

[Rocco]

LJ has a bit on the Niger Forgeries....interesting.

[Patton]

OK, so I will mention it.

Lieberman isn't just a Democrat Senator, he was their Vice Presidential candidate.

More then that, he is a devout Jew, that helps give Democrats credibility in the Jewish community.

Don't kid yourself that some of this anger toward Lieberman isn't anti-semetic.
There is a strong vein in the international left of anti-semetism which has been creeping into the Democrat Party.

[Patton]

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=4578

Don't forget when Dean brought the Anti-semites into the DNC.

[Sue]

PK,

I assumed that FDL would be more intellectual than KOS or DU. I assumed wrong. They think you are spot on if you say f**k every other word. What I should have said was I expect that type of behavior from KOS and DU but I expected a better class of posters there.

[Rick Ballard]

Sue,

We can't be everywhere.

[Sue]

Rick,

I know. That is why I mostly hang here. ::grin::

[BumperStickerist]

Right, Top (and Tom)

I have that Colonel Nicholson/'Bridge over the River Kwai' feeling every time I hear Kos, or atrios, or Hamsher give political advice.

It's like 'No, you morons, you don't build a brige THAT way, it'll never work. You build a bridge THIS way'

and then, just as the train's about to get to the trestle, you realize that you may have just helped Very.Silly.People win an election. At which point William Holden gets shot and you have to throw yourself on the plunger.

or something.

[Sue]

The 'or something' is what scares me.

[Gary Maxwell]

Nawh its the dander from the poodles that makes you itch there. Or something.

[Sue]

Well, at the moment, all I'm worried about is getting a good seat at the late showing of Pirates 2. ::grin::

Arrrgggg!!!!!!

Night y'all!

[Barney Frank]

"Obviously this is one of them 'highbrow sites'".

Hey public ed,

My brow is so low it doubles as a moustache and they let me hang around. This is one of them 'unibrow sites'.

[vnjagvet]

Public Ed you are actually avuncular and just resent that we all know it.

At least none of us dropped the "l" in your first name. If that makes us highbrow, so be it.

[Alain]

Hey! i got it now "if a guy with the odd $100 million can pick up a Senate seat" should marry Ariana i-stole-my-name-from-my-ex-husband!!

[Daddy]

Re: Avuncular.
About 2 years ago we was whipping along at Mach .84 at 35,000 feet over northern Canada enroute Minneapolis. I was deep into Simon Winchester's "The Map That Changed The World: William Smith and the Birth of Modern Geology". Suddenly, in some vital sentence of consequence, that rotton SOB of an author blindsided me with a completely uncalled for "avuncular parsimony.
"Avuncular Parsimony", What the crap was that? Some disease, some horrible affliction, some dreadful Victorian social impropriety; ie gout, unexpected bastard stepchildren, or curmudgingly old Dickensian tax collectors rapping at the door?
These and other such thoughts flumoxed me as we zipped along 6 miles above the Earth and I without a dictionary. The co-pilot momentarily put down his Playboy to help me decipher the riddle, but he proved as useless as I, so for the next 3 hours 'avuncular parsimony' plagued me like a piece of meat trapped between one's teeth, and I without any dental floss, only that agravating piece of meat was trapped in my mind. Landing was hideous; 'Gear down? Check. Flaps down? Check. But always in the background, while fighting crosswinds and wrestling that 450,000 pound baby to the deck, part of my mind was screaming 'AVUNCULAR PARSIMONY' Arrgh!
Cab driver was likewise useless, as was the hotel staff, so exiting our downtown Minnie hotel, I passed that Mary Tyler Moore statue, and entered the Target, looking for anyone who looked like I think Lilek's looks like (hoping he would know), but that likewise proved useless. Wound up pounding Guiness with the co-pilot all night long at some Irish joint nearby, and though the service and beer was great, 'Avuncular Parsimony-wise' they was similiarly clueless.
Next morning a stop at the used book store and a peek at an old Webster's Dictionary revealed the secret, which I would divulge to you guys if I wasn't a stingy uncle.

[docweasel]

"I stay away from Firedoglake. That place is creepy! More so than KOS and DU but I can't explain why." -Sue

One reason is the extreme (even for a leftywingnutmoonbat blog) and childish, IMHO, use of profanity and bad-taste attacks like "Rape Gurney Joe". The site is made exclusively for preaching to the choir, and the more rabid and hate-filled the attack on Republicans and Bush the more the choir likes it: however, these sites are starting to get wider attention, and to the casual visitor, unaccustomed to the crazy talk, it sounds positively psychotic.

Another facet of the moonwingbatnutlefty blogs is the demand for absolute fidelity to the far-left dogma and a scorched earth policy toward heretics. Lately the lefty's have been going off on Obama for daring to indulge in "god-talk".

The left-blogs are probably damaging the Dem party by violently attacking centrist Dems and driving policy to the left while (mostly) the righty blogs help the Republicans by defending the President and other Republicans.

When the inevitable crash comes in November, and Dean is ejected expect the nutbatrootmoons to go off the deep end and declare open warfare on the party establishment. In fact, I'm convinced the 'progressives' will break off into a 3rd party, with Dean at the helm.

Welcome to a perpetual one-party rule in America, ala Japan and (until recently) Mexico.

[Jane]

I think they have already declared "open warfare". The only issue is whether they just take down themselves, or themselves and the dems.