In Which I Dispute The Times And Drift Towards A Defense Of Mel Gibson...

The Times tackles the issue of alcohol-fueled truth-telling with Mel Gibson as the story hook.  In doing so they offer an assertion I find so absurd that it actualy suggests a defense of Mel Gibson.  Here we go:

Science, as it happens, has been hard at work trying to understand the how and the why of what everyone at a college mixer learns: alcohol can make people do, and say, stupid things. But does it make people say things that they do not believe at all, that are, as Mr. Gibson insisted in his statements, antithetical to one’s own views and faith?

Experts generally suggest that the answer is “Nope.”

When asked where those vicious words came from, Dr. Kevin J. Corcoran, a psychology researcher who has studied the effects of alcohol on perception and judgment, replied, simply, “his mouth.”

Dr. Corcoran said comments do not spring from nothing; for example, Dr. Corcoran said, he himself would not make anti-Semitic statements under the influence of alcohol.

“I say other outrageous things when I’m drunk,” he said.

Hmm.  I sometimes say outrageous things when I am drunk, and sometimes I don't even need to be drunk.  But I'll tell you this - if I were trying to outrage an Irishman, I would probably dredge up some Mick jokes from my youth (having heard a few - go figure).  If I were trying to nettle a Frenchman, I would probably inquire as to why the Champs Elysses is lined with trees (Suggested answer - the German Army likes to march in the shade).

And I don't supose I am alone in being able to come up with a few buttons to push that might irritate a Brit, a black person, a Jew, a Southern redneck, or what have you.  However!  That does not mean that I endorse these sterotypes; it just means that, having paid a bit of attention, I am familiar with them.

But (and here is where we drift towards a Mel Gibson defense) I would not mix and match - I very much doubt that I would attempt to offend a Brit by urging him to go back to his trailer park, watch a few laps of NASCAR, and get back into bed with his sister. You have to target your audience.

And in the Mel Gibson incident, the arresting officer was Jewish.  So maybe Mel Gibson picked up on that somehow (some Jewish folks do look Jewish, after all) and said some things he figured would be offensive to a Jew.  Mission accomplished.  And if the arresting office had been Irish, maybe we could have gleaned some insight into the drunken Mel Gibson's Mick repertoire.  Another time, perhaps.

Now, the defense I am tossing up is not intended to be particularly convincing (Hey, I'm not buying it!) - there are still the issues of Mel Gibson's father, the Passion, and Mel Gibson's own history.  That said, I found the passage in the Times to be utterly unconvincing - in my view, awareness of an offensive sterotype and the invocation of that sterotype to offend someone can easily be separated from belief in that stereotype.

UPDATE:  Well, either I'm wrong, or Ann Althouse and Ezra Klein are.  I know where the smart money ought to go, but I am standing by my post - use of an offensive sterotype with the goal of angering someone does not equate to belief in that sterotype.  I wonder why ivory-towered academics and mere kids don't get that (and I wonder if they get my ever-so-subtle illustrative use of other sterotypes...)

Comments

[Terrye]

Mark Steyn made an interesting point in his latest Sun Times oped that the only way Israel could get any good press is if Mel Gibson flew there, went to a restaurant and called a waiter a f---ing Jew. I parahrase but that was the jest of it.

Drunks say stupid things, especially belligerent drunks.

[MayBee]

Single women around the world are rejoicing to find out that yes, he really did love her. And he really will call.

[larwyn]

BlueCrab has post of Reuters has withdrawn but no
apology. Let's demand same kind of "apology" from Reuters
as media is demanding from Mel Gibson.
Reuters is proven anti- semite!!!
And Reuters' employee sent graphic DEATH THREAT to Charles Johnson at Little Green Footballs for pointing out the cloned smoke plums.

Then Dan at RiehlWorld shows that buildings in Reuters photo also cloned. Reuter's Photoshop Explained

REUTERS is only one of the operating ANTI-SEMITES - and they get people killed

UPDATE:
Reuters Admits Fraud - Blue CrabBlvd

.....Ynet is publicly praising Charles Johnson from Little Green Footballs for his work in busting yet another fraud. Go Charles! They also mention several other blogs that did yeoman's work on this.This is Reuters' picture site and I am not seeing a real public apology right up front yet.This entry was posted on Sunday, August 6th, 2006 at 7:12 am

Praying we can make Reuters pay as media is trying to make Mel pay

[Rick Ballard]

If I remember correctly, Mrs. Clinton (whose parents weren't, to public knowledge, antisemitc nutters), uses antisemitic gutter language on occasion. If we can figure out whether that is due to her nature or to the environment in which she was raised perhaps the same process could be applied to an analysis of Mel?

After all, she does it when she's sober, so it provides more insight than the utterance of someone under the influence.

[clarice]

I spit on the notion that people are not allowed to have prejudices. It's the acting on them that creates problems. And as far as I can see the law takes care of that . All of the groups like ADL and NAACP which were designed long ago to take care of real discrimination are now needless since the passage of laws to deal with that. They exist now for the aggrandizement of those who run it.

If someone expresses personal prejudices those hearing it can react as they choose.

I didn't like it when they did this to Lott and I don't like it when they're doing it to Gibson. And this public mortification is repulsive.

[Jane]

I'm getting whiplash watching the left root-on Hezbollah while condemning Gibson for his antisemitic rhetoric. And to be fair there is a bit of whiplash on the right from the same thing in reverse. Of course I'd prefer to be on the side of the neck crackers who are defending speech and condemning kidnapping, but that's just me.

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

Read this slander of Jews from today's Reliable Sources:

--------quote--------
KURTZ: Tom Ricks, you've covered a number of military conflicts, including Iraq, as I just mentioned. Is civilian casualties increasingly going to be a major media issue? In conflicts where you don't have two standing armies shooting at each other?

THOMAS RICKS, REPORTER, "THE WASHINGTON POST": I think it will be. But I think civilian casualties are also part of the battlefield play for both sides here. One of the things that is going on, according to some U.S. military analysts, is that Israel purposely has left pockets of Hezbollah rockets in Lebanon, because as long as they're being rocketed, they can continue to have a sort of moral equivalency in their operations in Lebanon.

KURTZ: Hold on, you're suggesting that Israel has deliberately allowed Hezbollah to retain some of it's fire power, essentially for PR purposes, because having Israeli civilians killed helps them in the public relations war here?

RICKS: Yes, that's what military analysts have told me.

KURTZ: That's an extraordinary testament to the notion that having people on your own side killed actually works to your benefit in that nobody wants to see your own citizens killed but it works to your benefit in terms of the battle of perceptions here.

RICKS: Exactly. It helps you with the moral high ground problem, because you know your operations in Lebanon are going to be killing civilians as well.
---------endquote--------

And Ricks didn't appear to have the excuse of being drunk.

[ajacksonian]

First on Mel Gibson from Samuel Johnson: "A man who exposes himself when he is intoxicated, has not the art of getting drunk."

And then on Charles Johnson, and bravo for that work... show me the originals and all of those taken by the same photographer for that event.

Storage is cheap.

Truth is priceless.

[Cecil Turner]

"A man who exposes himself when he is intoxicated, has not the art of getting drunk."

Heh. Ain't that the truth. (Especially if taken literally . . . though it probably needs corollaries for things like urinating on one's shoes.) Personally, I'm having a hard time seeing why, since I don't really care what Mel Gibson says sober, I should be overly concerned what he says drunk. I can understand the inclination to point--in a self-satisfied fashion whilst hoisting a well-deserved pint myself--and opine: "lightweight."

BTW, the silliest part of that column was the "suspicion of drunken driving" bit. I think we can be a bit more definite than that, eh?

[clarice]

When civilians morph to people (hint" Lebanon and Israel) and when Kofi cares about attacks on UNIFIL and when he doesn't.

http://americanthinker.com/comments.php?comments_id=5765

[Lesley]

The reason this hammering of Mel Gibson continues has entirely to do with "The Passion of the Christ." Its the media's (and other critics) attempt to paint the movie as anti-Semitic and Christians, by association, the same.

If Mel Gibson had never produced this film, the story wouldn't have lasted more than a few days.

The agenda is deeper, pace Andrew Sullivan v Hugh Hewitt, the "Christianists", etc.

[cathyf]

The theory which goes something like "well there's no way he could have said those things if he doesn't actually believe them" is just stupid beyond words. Look, Mel's daddy is a well-know anti-semite crackpot. So Mel is drunk as a skunk and he opens his mouth and his daddy comes out. Surprise, suprise! Isn't that why getting drunk is considered a bad thing?

Don't consider this a defense of Mel. It's a rightful attack on the sheer idiocy of thinking that "well it has to be coming from somewhere" means that it can only be coming from a person's beliefs. Sure, I'll buy that it comes from somewhere -- but there's a whole lot more somewhere's out there besides just being what Mel believes.

And a little advice about getting along in the world. If in every ambiguous situation where there are lots of explanations you insist on believing that other people always mean the worst most offensive one, well, then, you are going to spend a lot of time being offended...

cathy :-)

[windansea]

I forgive Mel...I am sure God does too

when I hear someone say "I don't have a racist bone in my body" I know I am listening to a plate full of spaghetti.

Lesley above is right about The Passion...the critics and elitists can't stand the fact it was a huge blockbuster and that Mel probably pocketed $100 mil for his efforts.

[maryrose]

About 10 years ago I participated in an Awareness program where we pledged to refrain from any racist or defamatory speech and in the case of my children I correct it when it comes out. Parents can be prejudiced and children will mimic them.
TM: Your explanation makes sense as does the fact that Mel's movie made so much money.

[Lesley]

Wind - I respectfully disagree. It ain't about the money, its about the message.

Hollywood & the critics lauded & praised "The Last Temptation of Christ" and frankly wallowed in mainstream Christianity's discomforture over "The DaVinci Code." The concern was that "The Passion of the Christ" would be a clarion call to the theocratic faithful in this country to put Jews in ovens and stone homosexuals or whatever that yada yada yada theory du jour was. Therefore, Mel Gibson's anti-Semitic rant played perfectly in the "America is turning into a theocracy" and "you Christians are nothing but rank hypocrites & anti-Semites" crowd.

Discredit the messenger (which Gibson did a fine job himself), you get to discredit the message.

Unfortunately, I do see anti-Semititism on the rise in this country. I agree with the Crank. My own lefty nutjob secular humanist Episcopal church is busy with its anti-Israel/pro Palestinian campaign wrt to disinvestment and censuring Israel every chance it gets. I am beyond disgust with my own church, but that's another topic.

Interestingly enough, my youngest son is enrolled in a conservative Christian school, thus, I spend alot of time around people who are derisively dismissed as those scary fundies. Those scary fundies are the best friends Israel and the Jews will ever have, and not because they are obsessed with eschatology but because they sincerely believe the Jews are God's chosen people. Ironic, eh?

[jerry]

Yeah, you don't have to believe a stereotype to use it. I'll also say that alcohol can increase emotional intensity [in my experience ;-)], and sometimes this will overwhelm the substance of what is being said, not that this applies in Gibson's case.

[Specter]

IOW - Mel went into a rage and probably did not even know what he was saying at the time. Rage does that - couple it with alcohol and man.....

Lesley - Good christians try - at least try - to forgive others for their faults. It kills me when christians (one of which I am) condem others with no forgiveness. I call them plastic christians - those who can tell you who was at church, where they sat, who they sat with, what they were wearing, and the latest gossip about each one, but can't tell you what the message of the sermon was....

[Alcibiades]

I thought of precisely the same rationale as you, Tom.

Perhaps he was being anti-semitic and perhaps he was drunk and full of rage and attempting to push the police officer's to get him to react.

You can't tell from the incident.

On the other hand, the balance of the evidence, between the film and this incident and his father, does lie in one direction; sort of like Ffloyd Landis' second negative doping test.

[Alcibiades]

Oops, that was supposed to say push the police officer's buttons to get him to react.

[Paul in Az]

Lesley might be onto something...

I find it hard to understand how anyone then or now can continue to cling to the notion that the Passion represents some sort of innate anti-Semitism.

It reveals a lack of understanding, for certain, of the Gospels and of the politics of the day. Under Roman rule, the Jews had not the power to sentence anyone to capital punishment. Only the Romans could do so.

The Sanhedrin wanted Jesus dead for several different reasons. They played Pilate like a fiddle and he did for them what they could not do for themselves.

Understanding that and articulating it doesn't make anyone an anti-Semite. Actually, I guess than if it did, God is an anti-Semite too since He knew Jesus would be rejected by the Jewish people.

How and why the media continue to push the anti-Semitic meme escapes me.

[lurker]

"Unfortunately, I do see anti-Semititism on the rise in this country. I agree with the Crank. My own lefty nutjob secular humanist Episcopal church is busy with its anti-Israel/pro Palestinian campaign wrt to disinvestment and censuring Israel every chance it gets. I am beyond disgust with my own church, but that's another topic."

What about the US Presbyterian Church?

[lurker]

Some good news on GWOT.

[lurker]

Flopping Aces put together a good argument why Saddam was a dangerous threat to the world.

[Rick Ballard]

"What about the US Presbyterian Church?"

The PCUSA is doing an excellent job of disappearing - perhaps even a bit faster than the Episcopalians - and for precisely the same reasons.

If you're interested in understanding just how much against self interest the press bias against Christians actually is, Lurker, Pew Report clarifies the matter. Half of the black population declare themselves as evangelicals, as do about 22% of the Democrat Party.

We're just fortunate that stupid runs bone deep in the press.

[lurker]

While I'm a non-practicing Presybeterian (converted from Baptist), I wasn't happy with some of their decisions, which they have retracted on some. Especially their position against Jews.

[BumperStickerist]

Mel should have used the DeNiro Gambit - he was simply doing research for an upcoming role.

[maryrose]

I believe in live and let live. All roads and faiths lead to heaven. Acceptance and respect for others is the way to go in my opinion.

[Rocco]

I have no sympathy for Gibson whatsoever. He made a choice to get behind the wheel drunk and he endangered the lives of everyone he crossed paths with that night. My sympathy lies with that Jewish Police Officer who Gibson unleashed his hate speech on while resisting arrest. Maybe those hateful anti-semitic words Gibson used that night will be the words that eventually save his life. I'll forgive him when he has a couple of years sobriety under his belt.

[Assistant Village Idiot]

Gibson deserves - and will receive - the same punishment that the Dixie Chicks got: he'll lose some of his audience.

Alcohol in moderate doses can disinhibit a person and cause them to say things they may believe but would not ordinarily say. I am suspicious of the claim that in large doses it can make you say things alien to your personality, but would at least consider the possibility.

As a psychiatric social worker however, I can assure you that bipolar affective disorder can indeed make you say things that are not just disinhibited expressions of your sorse self, but things that actually are alient to you. I have seen one report that Gibson made reference in 2004 to having BPAD (which used to be called manic-depressive). That said, if you know you are prone to saying vile and stupid things when manic - and alcohol can exacerbate this - then you have heightened responsibility to keep yourself out of manic episodes. Some people have to swear off alcohol altogether, for example.

There is some small chance that Gibson was doing everything possible to manage his illness but had manic symptoms break through, which in turn can lead to furhter symptoms, like picking up alcohol or going off medications. If that is the case, he has my pity rather than my scorn. But it is far more likely that he was not doing everything he could to manage what he knows to be a danger, and bears full responsibility, whether direct or indirect, for what came out of his mouth.

[Xrlq]

"I say other outrageous things when I'm drunk," he said.

That lame rejoinder sounds like it was intended to debunk Gibson's defense, but it actually underscores it. What Corcoran said, in effect, was almost exactly what Gibson said: "Anti-Semitic details aside, the drunk me will say things that the sober me not only doesn't believe, but in fact considers outrageous."

[eric]

Nice apologia for Mel, but really...do you not know anything about his dad?

[Carol Herman]

Officer Mee is Jewish? You could have fooled me. And, Officer "Sugar Tits?"

I think Mel Gibson is anti-Semitic. I think he's aware of the "Passion" record; in that it was used to fuel progroms. But those were in the days peasants were illiterate.

Why would Christ's works be in his death? I thought the religion was based on his life's work?

Anyway, Mel hit success with his "Passion" film. Then, he thought he'd go on and grab the Holocaust. ABC was gonna fund this mini-series. So at least we don't have to run another test to see if Gibson was out to hurt Jews by discounting the Holocaust; which no one forces you to believe that it took place. Or not.

As to what he said, I'm more concerned that a man with his millions wouldn't have used a chauffeur?

What's this with men and their car keys? Throw in John Glenn for good measure.

[Tom Maguire]

sort of like Ffloyd Landis' second negative doping test.

If I ever get a paper cut I look to you to provide the lemon and some salt...

but really...do you not know anything about his dad?

But really - do you not know how to read? I know it can get tedious, but sometimes you have to stagger all the way to the end of the post, where I noted this:

...there are still the issues of Mel Gibson's father, the Passion, and Mel Gibson's own history.

And that was supplemented by a link to a Hitchens piece in Slate.

[Daddy]

I happen to have been reading Herodotus' "History" recently, and his comments written in about 450 BC on the Persians and their attitude about drunkeness and decision making amused me. From page 97 of the Penguin Classic's paperback edition:

"They are very fond of wine and no one is allowed to vomit or relieve himself in the presence of another person.

If an important decision is to be made, they discuss the question when they are drunk, and the following day the master of the house where the decision was held submits their decision for reconsideration when they are sober. If they still approve it, it is adopted; if not, it is abandoned. Conversely, any decision they make when they are sober, is reconsidered afterwards when they are drunk."

Now granted Herodotus' other nickname, besides The Father of History, is The Father of Lies, but I think we can safely conclude that even 2,500 years ago folks were pretty well aware that whatever the crap came out of your mouth when you were kneewalking drunk wasn't exactly the Gospel. Otherwise I suppose we'ld have to conclude that when Representative Patrick Kennedy drove his Chevy into the Levy bricks at 2 AM there at the Capitol a couple months back and staggered out telling the Cops he was late for a vote, we'ld have to believe him. Even if he vomited or relieved himself in our presence. Ughh.

[eric]

I know it can get tedious

Yes it can, and fine, I missed your minor aside on the subject of Mel's father.

awareness of an offensive sterotype and the invocation of that sterotype to offend someone can easily be separated from belief in that stereotype.

How so? If it were so easy, couldn't you spend a couple of sentences spelling it out for those of us too dumb (or tedium-addled) to pick up on its obviousness? You know, just as a ribbon on the gift.

[eric]

Oh, and what about the desire to offend in the first place?

[Slartibartfast]

Leonard Pitts said it best, I think:

As public expressions of remorse go, Gibson's get high marks for earnestness.

God bless him for calling his comments vitriolic.

God bless him for seeking treatment for his alcoholism.

God bless him for reaching out to the Jewish community.

God bless him, in fact, for every thing he said. Everything but this: ``Please know from my heart that I am not an anti-Semite. I am not a bigot.''

Beg pardon, but yes, he most certainly is. What was it he asked sheriff's Deputy James Mee? ''Are you a Jew? F---ing Jews. The Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world.'' Sorry, Mel, case closed.

Read the whole thing. He's bang-on.

[Leo Johnson]

If Mel Gibson had never produced this film, the story wouldn't have lasted more than a few days.

If Mel slurred african-americans instead of jews, he'd really be finished. I doubt that anyone would be offering apologies here on his behalf if that were the case.

[Sunny]

I like this analysis: "Alcohol doesn’t create or impose ideas. Alcohol releases ideas. The more deeply ingrained the ideas, the more explosive their release under the influence. In vino veritas, Mr. Gibson."

More on Richard Levick's Take

[Jane]

I think we are over analyzing Mel's transgression. I mean really, who cares?

[Appalled Moderate]

An actor-director's alcohol fuelled anti-semitic manifesto is interesting, only in looking at his body of work, and only to the extent said actor-director has influence over the thoughts of others.
Mel Gibson has influence over a group of right-wing catholics, so if I were of the Opus Dei persuasion, I might want to reflect on what Mel's been telling me. If I took a message out the Passion of the Christ about Jews or Jewishness, I'd might want to rethink. If I believe actor-directors are figures with important thing to say about policy, I'd might want to rethink (unless one were talking about current or former gvernors of California)

Generally, I'd give Mel's viewpoints the same weight I'd give Barbra Streisand's or Madonna's.

[LargeBill]

Probably the worst aspect of the coverage of this case (aside from the people who claim with certainty that they know what's in another person's heart) is how idiots in the media are treating alcohol as though it affects everyone equally. On MSNBC Scarborough had a policeman on to administer a BAC test to the shows producer as he had a few drinks. He reached the BAC that Gibson reported and gleefully said something like "I'm feeling rather impaired but I don't feel like ranting about Jews" as though that proved anything. Gibson is an admitted alcoholic and he is affected differently than others might be by the same amount of alcohol. My wife's late uncle was an ugly drunk and I assumed he pounded down a lot of alcohol. Turns out all he needed was a couple beers and he became a belligerent jerk who would want to fight everyone. Myself I can drink a 12 pack or more and the most that happens with me is eventually I'll get tired. My point is Gibson's specific BAC doesn't prove (or disprove) anything. If his father fed him anti-Semitic horsecrap all his life it could come out under the influence even if he personally grew to abhor his father's positions.

[Cecil Turner]

Myself I can drink a 12 pack or more and the most that happens with me is eventually I'll get tired.

I've been told that sort of thing runs in stages. One gets, successively:

1. Nine feet tall;
2. bulletproof;
3. really really hard to hear; and,
4. invisible.

As to your main point, concur completely. I had a friend (nicest guy in the world, sober) whose party antics inspired a not-so-joking nametag:

Instant A##hole
(just add alcohol)

[Tortoise]

I wonder if the same excuse can be extended for Hitchens? Were he ever to sober up, could he legitimately attempt to deny all responsibility for his hate-filled screeds of warmongering blather?

Cheers!

[SteveMG]

for his hate-filled screeds of warmongering blather?

Eight years ago today, the Islamists blew up our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.

Tell me this story again of how Hitchens is the war mongerer?

There's been a war going on my friend; we didn't start it.

Neither did Hitchens.

Cheers to you too!!

SMG

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

The Thomas Ricks story just got more interesting compared to Mel Gibson. He told Hugh Hewitt a few minutes ago that he should have kept his mouth shut about Hezbollah's rockets.

Though it isn't very clear why he now thinks that. But, Hewitt immediately said 'okay', and passed on to 'Fiasco'. So, I guess never having to say your sorry works for WaPo reporters.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Nice apologia for Mel, but really...do you not know anything about his dad?

Eric, you moron, what does that have to do with anything?

[Tom Maguire]

Alcohol doesn’t create or impose ideas. Alcohol releases ideas.

Uh huh. And it might release the idea of telling someone that their mother wears army boots and their sister swims after troops ships, if starting/escalating a fight was the objective. It might release the idea of using the "N" word with a black man, (but probably not with an Irishman - what would be the point?).

But it hardly follows that the speaker would believe his comments about mum's footwear, sis's fitness program, or the rest.

Now, I'll grant that I can't get drunk and have the idea of how to perform brain surgery released ro created, since it is not currently lodged within me. But I think most sentient adults are aware of all sorts of offensive buzz phrases they might invoke in order to wind up someone, whether they believe them or not.

[boris]

Had Mel ranted about Jews controlling the movies and media, that would have related to his own world. As it is that comment sounds more like something from his dad.

Many liberals and "moderates" will rant at the drop of a hat on how Christianity is to blame for war, imperialism, colonialism and global warming. Prejudiced? Sure. Hate mongering bigots? Probably not.

[Tom Maguire]

I'm stealing this from a commenter at TAPPED:

This conclusion is incomplete. Clearly the science you've summarized tells us that Mel Gibson is a raging anti-semite, but one who's polite enough to keep such thoughts to himself when not being arested for drunk driving. He also apparently believes deep down that he owns Malibu, but again keeps that voice inside when the little people aren't taking him to jail.

Retief