Memeorandum


Powered by TypePad

« Armitage Speaks! | Main | 'Hubris' - Interesting Odds And Ends »

September 08, 2006

Comments

maryrose

Jeff;
Fitz should never have implied that Libby was first at the presser. This he actually did do so he was spreading false information from the get-go. We all know now why he indicted Libby and cooked the the grand jury to go his way-he wanted Cheney whom he is never going to get. Your premises are all wrong and you are pushing the nutroots meme. Maybee just called you on it in case you didn't know it.

MayBee

I saw that after you pointed it out. Let's just say I doubt it was really that amazing. There are many lurkers, I suspect, at TNH.

Perhaps amazing is a bit of an oversell. I guess I mean funny. Yes, I think he and Joe Wilson (and Larry Johnson) lurk at TNH.
It reminded me of my friend's story of her landlord in China, how he always just "knew" the things she and her husband had privately discussed they wanted done around the apartment.

boris

Libby was telling a story that sounded for all the world - as turned out to be the case - like he was covering up having leaked to reporters

A story that is quite reasonable knowing now that Armitage told Woodward who Libby spoke to the same day he spoke to Russert.

Many notes are written that remain unlearned or forgotten. Conversations have a way of getting misremembered.

Fitz didn't find out about "Armitage told Woodward" because he screwed up and Libby has been unfairly raked over coals as a result of his incompetence.

... that hack Toensing ...

... most vain male hair (Sr. York) ...

Time for your meds.

Jeff

I guess I mean funny. Yes, I think he and Joe Wilson (and Larry Johnson) lurk at TNH.

Well, we know Wilson holds emtpywheel in high regard, and rightly so. Among other things, she knows far more about the whole case than he does. But I detect JWDS creeping in here: Leopold is perfectly capable of reading TNH and using stuff from there all by himself, without the intervention of Mssr. Wilson and Johnson.

Sue

Among other things, she knows far more about the whole case than he does.

I doubt that. He knows far more about the case than he wants you to know. Like the lies (half-truths if that makes you more comfortable) that started the whole thing.

Jane

Well well well - from Drudge:

NOVAK: ARMITAGE DID NOT TELL ALL
Wed Sep 13 2006 08:37:07 ET

"When Richard Armitage finally acknowledged last week he was my source three years ago in revealing Valerie Plame Wilson as a CIA employee, the former deputy secretary of state's interviews obscured what he really did," Bob Novak claims in a column set for Thursday release.

Novak, attempting to set the record straight, writes: "First, Armitage did not, as he now indicates, merely pass on something he had heard and that he 'thought' might be so. Rather, he identified to me the CIA division where Mrs. Wilson worked, and said flatly that she recommended the mission to Niger by her husband, former Amb. Joseph Wilson. Second, Armitage did not slip me this information as idle chitchat, as he now suggests. He made clear he considered it especially suited for my column."

Novak slams Armitage for holding back all this time.

Armitage's silence for "two and one-half years caused intense pain for his colleagues in government and enabled partisan Democrats in Congress to falsely accuse Rove of being my primary source," Novak explains.

"When Armitage now says he was mute because of special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald's request, that does not explain his silent three months between his claimed first realization that he was the source and Fitzgerald's appointment on Dec. 30. Armitage's tardy self-disclosure is tainted because it is deceptive."

lurker

We are interested in the facts so where does JWDS come in? What do we know?

1. Plame was not covert.
2. Armitage was the original official leaker.
3. Wilson lied about so many different things.
4. The yellowcake story about Iraq seeking acquisition of YC from Niger turned out to be true.
5. No damage was done to Plame and Wilson.
6. No harm was done to US National Security.

I continue to read many posts that Fitz never used the word, "covert" but used the word, "classified" when he talks of Plame's status. Armitage did, of course, imply that Plame's status was not covert, if I'm not mistaken.

Sue

Jeff,

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash9.htm>Novak on Armitage

I wonder how EW will take this? Since she said this: But this very strong suggests that Armitage only had the information included in the INR memo.

http://thenexthurrah.typepad.com/the_next_hurrah/2006/08/the_armitage_bo.html>EW

lurker

"Among other things, she knows far more about the whole case than he does.

I doubt that. He knows far more about the case than he wants you to know. Like the lies (half-truths if that makes you more comfortable) that started the whole thing."

I agree. I seriously doubt that she knows more than JW. If EW's getting answers from JW, then she's getting inaccurate information. Pretty much a guarantee.

The only way we know that we're getting incorrect information is evidence. Public evidence proved JW wrong one too many time that no one knows what other information given by JW is correct or not.

Discredibility.

Sue

If I were EW, I would be using a recorder when talking to Joe Wilson. He has a tendency to call people liars, in a round-about way. As in misstated, misatributed, etc.

Lurker

From Drudge Report, so many clues confirmed:

"First, Armitage did not, as he now indicates, merely pass on something he had heard and that he 'thought' might be so. Rather, he identified to me the CIA division where Mrs. Wilson worked, and said flatly that she recommended the mission to Niger by her husband, former Amb. Joseph Wilson. Second, Armitage did not slip me this information as idle chitchat, as he now suggests. He made clear he considered it especially suited for my column."

1. Name of the CIA division revealed.
2. Ms. Wilson was named. Not Plame.
3. Plame did indeed recommend JW for the trip to Niger.
4. Serious stuff.

sad

Novaks revelations regarding Armitage and the McCain Campaign...hmm Anyone see issues ahead?

Lurker

Oh, one other thing, "operative" does not mean "covert" either.

lurker

McCain will have problems as long as Armitage continues to work for him.

Amazing that Novak finally comes forward, now that he sees that Armitage received permission from Fitz to finally come forward.

Remember how Novak kept trying to tell the BDS reporters how wrong they were?

sad

Be prepared for all out war on Novak.

CNJ

How did Fitz know that Libby talked to Miller? From libby's calendar or phone records? But they should have also indicated that Libby talked to Woodward before he talked to Miller. If that is the case why did'nt Fitz investigate Woodward before he told the court to put Miller in prison?
How could this hyped-up prosecuter fail so miserably here?

lurker

AJStrata's comments:

Armitage Is Not Being Truthful

CNJ, it seems that Judge Tatel and perhaps Judge Walton did far better jobs "investigating" than Fitz, CIA, and FBI...

And...seeing through Fitz. Surely, they eventually had to know that the investigation was biased and incomplete.

Let's hope that Judge Bates will do the same.

This recent revelation just adds one more nail to the Fitz coffin against Lewis. I would not be surpried that a few more nails will be added to this coffin before the Lewis case is tossed out.

Jeff

Sue

Do you think maybe things might change with regard to the attitude toward Armitage now?

MayBee

Well, we know Wilson holds emtpywheel in high regard, and rightly so. Among other things, she knows far more about the whole case than he does. But I detect JWDS creeping in here: Leopold is perfectly capable of reading TNH and using stuff from there all by himself, without the intervention of Mssr. Wilson and Johnson.

Wilson used the Truthout guys to release his most recent statement. The Leopold article I'm referring to used Wilson as a source. Wilson and Leopold had the same scoops during Rove-mania, and used Truthout and Larry Johnson to spread the stories. It is obvious Joe Wilson has a connection to Leopold, no BDS required.

Yes, I'm sure Wilson thinks highly of EW. She's a smart cookie, and she supports him. He used to have some of the most influential political reporters in the nation on his side, but they have turned away from him to some extent. But not EW and Jane Hamsher! Nope, they are willing to ask people to donate $65,000 to write a book on his behalf. All the while never asking him probing questions. Why would he not think highly of them both?
And again, I want to emphasize that I do think EW is smart, and her writing and research skills very admirable.

Sue

Do you think maybe things might change with regard to the attitude toward Armitage now?

No. I think Armitage probably told the truth to Fitzgerald. He just wanted to lessen his involvement with the public and Novak is calling him on it.

Which should tell you not to try the case using newspapers and such.

Sue

Maybee,

She is wrong as often as she is right. Just as we are. She is guessing and like us, she is biased. It is easy to put your own spin on what you are investigating, when all you have is bits and pieces of the puzzle. Fitzgerald, who should have all the puzzle pieces, did not charge anyone with the underlying crime. If he couldn't find it, I doubt Ms. Empty can either.

cathyf
For this reason, when investigators set about to investigate a crime, Step Zero has to be determining whether a crime has even happened.

This strikes me as exceptionally unthoughtful. Imagine: person X is dead. It is determined that person X has been killed. Do investigators in all cases sit around determining whether a crime has happened before they go out and look for who killed person X?

Well you strike me as being deliberately obtuse. If the coroner tells you that #1 he has a dead body and #2 the dead body didn't die of natural causes, then that is Step 0. And the investigators should be proceeding to Step 1 because Step 0 is finished. On the other hand, an anonymous source quoted multiple times with an ever-shifting story, and an ever-shifting job-description, hardly rises to the level of evidence that a dead body in the morgue and an autopsy report does!

Fitzgerald said right in his infamous press conference that the first step of any investigation is determining whether a crime has been committed. We know that he knows that the FBI should have done this.

MayBee

Sue, agree with both posts.
I didn't want to sound catty about EW because I think she is earnest and intelligent, and I'm sure she's excited about the prospect of writing her book.
I just wanted my main point to be that Wilson seems to glom on to whoever will tell the story he wants told. The number willing to do that has been decreasing as of late, and therefore his conduits become more obvious.

Sue

Speaking of his press conference, I can't find where he mentioned the IIPA. He did mention the Espionage Act.

Barney Frank

Do you think maybe things might change with regard to the attitude toward Armitage now?

Why should they, since you have already told us Novak is lying and unscruplous?

In fact, lately it seems everyone is unthoughtful, ignorant, a hack, etc. Where's the usually jovial Jeff?
Did you get a lump of coal in your Fitzmas stocking?


CNJ

From Novak column:"...that does not explain his silent three months between his claimed first realization that he was the source"

Haha. Novak is not buying the Armitage claim that it was the phrase "partisan gunslinger" in Novak's second column that made him to come forward.

lurker

"Do you think maybe things might change with regard to the attitude toward Armitage now?

No. I think Armitage probably told the truth to Fitzgerald. He just wanted to lessen his involvement with the public and Novak is calling him on it.

Which should tell you not to try the case using newspapers and such."

And believing them as well. Same in believing Joe Wilson.

sad

Haha. Novak is not buying the Armitage claim that it was the phrase "partisan gunslinger" in Novak's second column that made him to come forward.

Many on the left have maintained all along that Novak knew more than he was telling. But I am not sure this is what they had in mind.

Jeff

If the coroner tells you that #1 he has a dead body and #2 the dead body didn't die of natural causes, then that is Step 0.

Are you serious? That does not tell you that a crime has been committed. Just as I said, that tells you that someone has been killed (including the possibility that that person has killed him/herself).

By the time Fitzgerald came on board, there were multiple instances of Plame's cover being blown.

And if you actually read Fitzgerald's famous press conference, it doesn't support your point. In fact, it contradicts it.

Jeff

Speaking of his press conference, I can't find where he mentioned the IIPA. He did mention the Espionage Act.

He alluded to both in his press conference.

Sue

Can you show me where? I can't find the IIPA but the Espionage Act is clearly mentioned.

Sue

Actually, the famous press conference supports perjury, obstruction of justice and false statements. It doesn't support multiple instances of Plame's cover being blown. There might not have been a cover to blow.

lurker

"By the time Fitzgerald came on board, there were multiple instances of Plame's cover being blown."

Sure, it was already blown...by Aldrich Ames and that there were evidence since the outting of Ames that Plame is no longer covert.

lurker

If Fitz alluded to IIPA and Espionage Act in his press conference, no released publc information support it.

maryrose

Jeff:
You are hanging by a thread now and grasping at straws. Fitz was deperate to bring an indictment so he got Libby in his sights and tried to throw the book at him. His sloppy investigating{agents interviewing neighbors the night before} has come back to bite him on the ass. Putting you faith in these questionable tactics is not going to reveal the truth.

The comments to this entry are closed.

Wilson/Plame