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October 11, 2006

Comments

Greenwood

My view of the Plame situation has changed entirely after reading this blog most days. And I could be convinced that the Democrats are behind all of the Foley leaks, except I don't think it would matter to many if they were.

As far as the Foley emails and predatory behavior, I have unfortunately been involved in resolving several similar situations and have been guilty of overlooking others because I didn't want to believe that people I trusted were involved in such bad behavior.

anonymous

Correction (terribly sorry)

Are YOUR delusions persistent, Sweet Jane? or do they come and go?

(That's so much better.)

anon

Lets see where we stand in Greenwoods eyes.

Foley was guilty of something. Exactly what that something was is uncertain, although words such as "predator" get tossed around a lot. But it is still, several days into this scandal, unclear what Foley did that was so outrageous. Exchanging dirty IM's with consenting pages may be tacky, but it hardly deserves all the wailing and over the top language we keep hearing about child abusing sex predators.

Then on top of that we are told that the House leaders were guilty of another poorly defined something, for not taking strong action against Foley, based not on the Im's but on the even less objectionable emails.

If those emails are sufficient grounds for investigation then the majority of people in Congress, and probably every single Democratic, deserve to be investigated. There are far more smoking guns pointing to Harry Reid than there were to Foley. If Greenwood wants to be taken seriously as a public spirited citizen concerned about unethical behavior in Washington then I expect to see some strong demands for many more investigations.

SlimGuy

Greenwood the discussion centers here because our gracious host seems supportive of the worth of the debate and examination in view of the fact that the bandwith involved is on his dime.

Most of us are readers and contributors to other blogs following this issue, but the chose format of this blog makes it a much easier to follow thread than other display schemes would do.

So here is the place where the composite examination of the facts from multiple sources are combined with links to the facts so that others can examine the source for other items the linker might have missed.

SlimGuy

Greenwood some found this site from blogrolls on other sites , some found it mentioned in the post or comments on other sites

Good commentary in depth from other blogs are

strata-sphere.com
rightwingnuthouse.com
www.macsmind.com
gatewaypundit.blogspot.com

For commentary look at

americanthinker.com

Others here could add more Im sure

anonymous

Sorry to see the forum taken over by an asshat sock puppet.

Posted by: Enlightened | October 11, 2006 at 04:16 PM

You can type that again.

anon

And I could be convinced that the Democrats are behind all of the Foley leaks, except I don't think it would matter to many if they were.

You seem to be preoccupied with what other people believe. The point of discussing these matters with others on these types of forums is to make the argument for ones own opinions and listen to other viewpoints.

If you want to say that it would not matter you you if the Democrats were behind all the Foley leaks, then that I can accept, partisan though it is. But I don't see the point of this projection onto others of your own views.

I don't understand why you keep repeating your view that the public would be indifferent towards information that the Democrats held and then leaked information on Foley. It seems unlikely to be true, but even if true its not relevent to our efforts to get the facts on this issue.

Charlie (Colorado)

Go away, son, you're a proven loser and you're making us professional smokescreeners look bad.

I'm beginning to hear twilight zone music....

Greenwood

Thank you SlimGuy. I have been reading 3 of those sites. Also NRO, where Myrna Blyth wrote a column on Oct 6 that echo some of my own thoughts.

anonymous

I would imagine that is a common phenomenon for people here, Charlie; a soundtrack, perhaps, for the voices in their heads.

SlimGuy

Anonymous is trying its best to interupt the collective flow. Any other blog would have banned it long ago.

Posted by: Sara (Squiggler) | October 11, 2006 at 02:28 PM
Sounds like the gameplan of the Dems for the last 6 years, all interruption no production

Now if only we could get TM to post his ip since his email is bogus in view of full disclosure as a troll tax for wasted bandwith

EVIL GRIN

Greenwood

Thank you, anon. I will be interested to see how the background story will develop - how the emails and IM's came to light. There are some who post here - Verner comes to mind - who think that details of this are imminent. Do you think there will be anything substantive before the elections?

verner

Greenwood:Go read the entire initial set of emaails - an over-50 man being unusually personal with a teen, referring to another boy being “in really great shape”, again describing physical activity (riding a bike and going to the gym), and then asking for a picture.

Yeah, sounds that way--because WE DON"T KNOW WHAT THE KID WROTE TO FOLEY!

How do you know, for example, that the kid didn't mention the other boy as in "I went for a bike ride today, it reminded me of X, and the 50 mile rides we used to take when we were in DC...

These replies from Foly have absolutely no contest, and are therefore less than useless.

So give up trying to change the subject. We all know that it was never about the e-mails in the first place.

Rick Ballard

JOM becomes a libidiot magnet from time to time. Their appearance matches descriptions that I've read concerning herpes outbreaks. There's probably some unknowable link involved. I would note that Tic is apparently in remission at the moment so we should count at least one small blessing.

PeterUK

No SG,it's a cheap SOROSCO troll TM won on eBay,accidentally using the "Buy It Now" option,he's stuck with it until Rotor Rooter comes and gets it out of the drains.
It is running down now,repeating itself,gabbling insanely,can't manage a full paragraph,it'll be singing "Daisy" very soon.

Specter

Greenie,

Of course you are welcome to spout opinion. But, contrary to what anonymous says, there was nothing to investigate. Hastert did have someone go to Foley and tell him to knock it off. That apparently happened. So action was taken. But in this country you are not supposed to go after someone legally without some proof of a crime. Remember - innocent until proven guilty?

With that said, since it is now apparent that the Dems knew about the emails, the question is why didn't they tell anyone or do anything to protect the of-legal-age teens? Instead they shopped the emails and did not get any takers - so they sat on them until closer to the election where they knew someone in the LSM would snap them up. All about the politics - not about the kids. You can say whatever you want - but the fact is that you cannot refute what I just said. If these guys/ladies were so worried about the teens, why didn't they do something? Incredible hypocrisy.

Let's talk about evidence. Now - while I believe that Foley went after teens (as happens thousands and thousands of times each year in all walks of life - something I do not approve of), I suspect that if there was something illegal said, it might not be provable in court. Why? Well - look at the emails - no header information. You need to have that to prove where the emails came from. You literally need to subpoena the data from the ISP that owns the IP address/header info to prove that.

More - The IMs. AIM from that timeframe did not have automatic logging. You had to literally save the chat session using the "save" function. That saved the chat itself into a text file (.rtf format). It DID NOT save header information. Again, there is no way to prove where the IMs came from unless the original computer used has a hard drive that still has traces of the data.

Now - if there is such header data available for either the emails or the IMs, then it might be traceable back to the sender. If the investigation determines something illegal was done, then so be it - charge and try him. Foley is gone and good riddance. I don't think that anyone is going to vote to put him into committee chair positions 5 times more.....

Finally - the poll data. Let's see - Headline after headline misrepresents the actual data. They portray Foley as a "pedophile" (even anonymous said so in so many words), "a child predator" (these were not children - normal 16-18 children are not innocent any more, let alone politically savvy pages), "Republican cover-up" (SPKR2BNP said that even though there was nothing to investigate and the dems knew about the emails too), etc. etc. etc. The American public was pounded with this misleading stuff for two weeks and then polled on what they thought. And the polls were oversampled in favor of dems. What did we think the polls would say?

Finally the question of who saves chat sessions? Nobody I know does although I suppose LEA does on a regular basis. Yet somehow these pages saved them, and sat on them for years. Why you might ask? I suspect that the politically savvy, politico wannabees, were building their own "Hoover/Blue Dress" files for use when they come to DC in their own right.

MayBee

I wish Clarice were here, because she would dare to email the WaPo journalist and ask if he was aware of the falling out between Edmunds and Loraditch.
Or at least I imagine she would, if she found it interesting. Which I do.

It could go to possible motives for their actions. Was Loraditch protecting the children, or getting back at Edmunds?

verner

Here's a great piece on CREW from FPM:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=24871

By the way, anybody find out anything else on Zack's good buddie Ray Wert--gawker employee, Granholm "go to" guy and experienced democrat operative? There sure is a very very strong Michigan Democrat party connection there. Maybe the WAPO has already found it, and doesn't want to get stuck in the poo like they did with the Wilsons. I think we can take this "History" piece as a huge hint to a few democrat operatives--don't make us look like idiots again.

Neo

The article I wrote for the New York Times challenged sixteen words in the President's State of the Union address.

I noticed that Joe Wilson didn't claim that he "disproved" the sixteen words, merely "challenged" them.

Greenwood

If I am guilty of changing the subject, I apologize. And anonymous, you can reclaim your position as the contrarian here; apparently there is room for only one, and on most topics I am in agreement with most of you. I will be content to going back to being a reader.

Specter

Greenwood,

Don't do that. I know you have been here since I have and the few posts you have done up until this point were always good. I suspect here that it is a topic that has strong emotional overtones to you, so you react more strongly than most people.

Besides - we like you a lot better than anonymous who just posts to see his "apolitical" words in print.

verner

MayBee, Loraditch is a real enigma. Who knows with that kid? He might have some strange personality disorder. He might also really hate Jordan.

I've found some strange stuff about his dad online. Won't put it here, but his name is Gary, in case you want to check it out yourself.

At this point, anything is possible--considering who we are dealing with. They could be blackmailing Loraditch--threatening to out something on his dad for all we know.

What we can be sure of, however, is that those IMs came from that page board--and it has a democrat stench about it..

MJW

Rick Ballard: JOM becomes a libidiot magnet from time to time.

Rick, I hope you distinguish between posters like Greenwood, who is actually engaging in a conversation, and someone like "anonomous" who seems to be just a pest.

Neo

The only crime left to solve is exactly who took the LA page e-mails, both versions, from Capitol Hill. Remember, Jeff Trandahl promised confidentiality to the parents.

Greenwood

Thank you, Specter. I am not trying to bash the House leadership and I really don't think any of them should resign. From a political standpoint (and because of the timing), I just wish they had tried a little harder in the past 12 days to show that they understand why so many are upset. I also do not believe that Foley has done anything illegal, and I wish in his case he had been eased out of the one committee assignment, and encouraged to seek counseling. That's what would have happened in the private sector.

Jane

Anonymous is nothing but a stalker - there is nothing of substance there. Contrarians - with brains are more than welcomed.

SlimGuy

So you are still banging on like the Energizer Bunny?

Posted by: PeterUK | October 11, 2006 at 02:54 PM

Either that or whenever he needs a recharge he uses the erternal manually operated hand crank

Specter

Greenwood,

You are correct and it should have been done much earlier.

Please do not get the wrong impression - you have been around long enough to know most of the regulars around here. You have been a participant - and maybe with strong views - but that is fine. Someone like anonymous is a troll. That is different.

richard mcenroe

"So he is a staunch Republican who thinks the House leaders have done nothing wrong. But, and its a big but, he is "troubled"..."

The last time I saw a Moby this size, Gregory Peck was riding its back with a harpoon...

maryrose

No offense to the pages but the ones involved in this stunt sound like a bunch of spoiled brats who were out to get 15 minutes of fame and possibly jettison some position with the eternal minority -the democrats. Well boys -your scheme backfired big time. I"ll also note that girls don't get involved in this sort of horse hockey. We are much more focused and refined. I still blame Clinton more than Monica because supposedly he was the adult in the situation.
Greenwood: I understand your basic premise but I firmly believe the blowback against dems will be real and decisive. I expect to see you and anonymous bright and early on Nov.8th when the repubs retain both houses. It will be close but no cigar for the dems-no pun intended.

Rick Ballard

MJW,

No, I didn't mean Greenwood. Greenwood is something else, perhaps an honest participant or perhaps - 'thar she blows'. Time will tell.

verner

The only crime left to solve is exactly who took the LA page e-mails, both versions, from Capitol Hill. Remember, Jeff Trandahl promised confidentiality to the parents.


You got that right. The LA parents NEVER authorized the release of those e-mails. And everybody who touched em had better lawyer up. The kid's name is out there--I know it from reading it online.

And Jordan Edmund may find himself a very wealthy young man about town as well. They can't touch Wild Bill. All he did was surf the net, and tell the world what he found in the public domain. ABC on the other hand... Trust me, ABC's lawyers wrote that very carefully worded statement--and they are sweating bullets. Indeed, I would guess a whole bunch of high priced media lawyers have been getting phone calls.

Sara (Squiggler)

If Gawker is behind any of this, it will get very very dirty before it is over. Take a look at their MO via Malkin's pic. Their reaction after called on the phoney, they continued their attack even stronger. If you forget about the details of the Malkin/Gawker bruhaha and just look at the tactics, you'll get a very good idea of how they operate.

maryrose

verner:
You have summed it up nicely.

verner

I don't know Sara, this time Gawker would be playing hardball with the major league.

If memory serves me, they (wonkette) first dismissed the e-mails as forgeries.

They like the stupid celebrity stuff, and parody, but we now have the FBI involved.

Sara (Squiggler)

I'd like to write to Malkin and ask her if her view on this scandal would change at all if she knew Gawker was behind the whole thing. Unfortunately, I'm afraid she thinks she is the only one important enough to claim victimhood at their hands. I'm on the same page (no pun intended) as Malkin a good portion of the time, but sometimes she goes so far out there, I'm embarrassed for her. She did it on the immigration issue and again on the Foley matter. I don't think I could write to her without coming off snarky. It needs someone with better diplomatci skills than I possess.

verner

And Maryrose, don't forget, Jordan wil have the right to discovery. Assuming that he didn't give them to ABC--and they've said it was not him-- he will get to ask Brian Ross all types of questions that Ross may not want to answer.

They will settle for millions before that happens.

SlimGuy

Specter

Been a long time since I used aol, but im's were in an early version when this stuff occurred. I don't recall im's haveing timestamps on aol, I don't know if even it supports that now as an option you can turn on.

It almost looks more like Foley had created a private chat room on AOL because chat rooms supported time stamps and logging IIRC

Sara (Squiggler)

Verner, I think you hold the threat of the FBI in higher regard than most people I know. Arounmd these parts, they are considered pretty much the Keystone Cops.

And the FBI is on record as not seeing anything actionable in the original emails. In fact, a defense on Foley's side could be that he was being very careful to determine that the former page had reached majority before he said or did anything that could be construed as wrong.

I think trying to frame Foley as a child predator is ridiculous. He may have been attracted to young men in good physical condition and in their prime, but millions of heterosexual guys will tell you the same thing about young nubile girls. Look at Britney Spears, often seen half-clothed and with older men when she was 17. Shoot, I'm 61 and I still appreciate a fine piece of male studliness. And even though a thoroughly hetero woman, I can appreciate the perfect female form as well. Physical perfection is attractive to all of us of any age. The difference is cultural conditioning on what is proper to act upon. When I was a teenager, the age of majority was 21. When my son was a teenager it was 18. Now, many states make the age 16, or 17. And we try 12 and 14 year olds as adults.

SlimGuy

Jeff Trandahl promised confidentiality to the parents.

Posted by: Neo | October 11, 2006 at 05:34 PM

I have dicussed the theory that Trandahl may have gone political because he was dumped before the story came out with little fanfare.

I have speculated on the reasons for this and how he met all the requirements listed by abc as one of their multiple sources.

Sara (Squiggler)

Slimguy, we talked about the Timestamps before. They have never been turned on as the default, but in preferences, you can check a box and turn them on. It has always been that way. A private chat room is a good idea. Hadn't thought of that.

I will say, I doubt anyone can come up with any fetish, no matter how disgusting, that I won't be able to find an AOL chatroom that caters to that fetish. And the number of chatrooms that cater to every facet of the gay community are in the dozens and dozens, if not hundreds.

SlimGuy

A few here have managed to sluth out the La kid and refuse to divulge the name.

However from the parents recent press conference they are still getting a lot of contact from reporters and others about there son.

Unless and until it somehow proven that he is a willing involved player in this drama story then we will abide by the parents wishes.

The key here is if you can determine how many people had access to the unredated versions of the emails or at least first hand knowledge of the name of the page.

verner

Sara:I think trying to frame Foley as a child predator is ridiculous. He may have been attracted to young men in good physical condition and in their prime, but millions of heterosexual guys will tell you the same thing about young nubile girls. Look at Britney Spears, often seen half-clothed and with older men when she was 17.

And I think that one of the men drooling over Brittany was none other than Chris Matthews if memory serves me....wonder if someone could go back in the archives and find the video.

I couldn't agree with you more Sara. Which brings us back to what ABC actually did when they put the Jordan/Foley cybersex exchange up on the web. They, in fact, put up a private communication between two conscenting adults up for public scrutiny--an act which will cause a lifetime of embarrassment for Jordan whether it was a "prank" or not. What Jordan and Foley did was, in fact, legal in all fifty states. And ABC's lawyers know it.

I know they are trying to make Foley out as a child molester, and maybe there is something we don't know about--though I highly doubt it.

What ABC did is no different than if they put a hidden microphone up in someone's bedroom, and then blasted the audio all over the world. I bet there are civil lawyers breaking Jordan's door down...

MayBee

By the way, anybody find out anything else on Zack's good buddie Ray Wert--gawker employee, Granholm "go to" guy and experienced democrat operative?

Well, I know that the lat/long provided on his website's "View Page Info" appears to be his home. And it is 13 miles from the lat/long of the Stop Sex Predators website.

I know we hav incomplete info on that website's ISP. I think it is very telling it is from Detroit at all, given Mr. Stanton's connection.

Sara (Squiggler)

For those of us here who often question the motives of the bureaucracy and the control the staffers have behind the scenes, this post at Wizbang is a wake up.

In most countries, the "Interior Ministry" is usually the state security branch -- the secret police, and whatnot. But as George Carlin once so famously pointed out, here in the United States the Deparment of the Interior is in charge of everything that's outside -- the wilderness, the parks, and whatnot.

But apparently some of our Department of the Interior are jealous of their foreign colleagues, who apparently taunt them at international Interior gatherings. ("Hey, Joe, how many subversive trees did you round up last week?") So they have started to play with similar responsibilities, and are starting to block certain conservative blogs.

According to the most recent reports from Baron Bodissey, the blogs discovered to be blocked thus far are:

Captain's Quarters Cox and Forkum Gates of Vienna Little Green Footballs Michael J. Totten Michelle Malkin Power Line Protein Wisdom Rantings of a Sandmonkey Roger L. Simon The Adventures of Chester The American Thinker The Belmont Club The Doctor is In Wizbang

(Emphasis added, of course)

The Baron's source says that he has yet to find a single liberal blog that is blocked.

I fully expect that this situation will not stand. Now that the double standard has been exposed, the blocks will all be lifted or (more likely) the liberal blogs will get added to the list.

But in the meantime, I think I will revel in the prestigious company we here at Wizbang find ourselves in. August personages indeed.

verner

Hey Sara, just read the post piece again, and something caught my eye.


As for The Post's source, Foley's initial response to the disclosure of the e-mails finally persuaded him to share his information, he said.

"When the first e-mails came out, Foley's campaign came out saying it was all a well-timed Democratic smear. Those rumors were unfounded, and I knew that to be untrue," the Democratic former page said. Before the ABC News report, "we were reluctant to take on Congress as young politicos ourselves, but when first blows were made, there was no harm in coming forward," he added.

Now let's assume that it was indeed Zack who made this statement. Check out his wording "I knew that to be untrue" Now, I ask you, how would he know? What knowledge did he have? Is he trying to fool us with Clintonese by claiming that Melanie SLoane is a member of a non-partisan 501(c)3, and therefore not a democrat? Don't make me laugh too hard!

Also, this sentence:

"Before the ABC News report, "we were reluctant to take on Congress as young politicos ourselves, but when first blows were made, there was no harm in coming forward," he added."

In other words, he anticipated "the first blows" He had to. He had the IMs ready and waiting. Also, when he says "we" is he refering to Loraditch, or someone else?


topsecretk9

--Well, I know that the lat/long provided on his website's "View Page Info" appears to be his home. And it is 13 miles from the lat/long of the Stop Sex Predators website.

I know we hav incomplete info on that website's ISP. I think it is very telling it is from Detroit at all, given Mr. Stanton's connection.--

You should really email this to reporters...since they seem not to look into stories like thins unless they come prepackaged with a shiny red bow.

anonymous

Now if only we could get TM to post his ip since his email is bogus in view of full disclosure as a troll tax for wasted bandwith

EVIL GRIN

Posted by: SlimGuy | October 11, 2006 at 04:50 PM

The threat is duly noted. But, please, go ahead, and (as they say) make my day. (But remember, be careful what you wish for -- you just might get it.)

verner

TS:You should really email this to reporters...since they seem not to look into stories like thins unless they come prepackaged with a shiny red bow.


No Joke TS. There isn't a decent investigative journalist out there. They just wait to have their pulitzers delivered after some enemy of the administration hand feeds them classified info.

Think about it. The best reporting so far has been by Wild Bill, A J, Mac, a few freepers and several people here at JOM.

cathyf
Let's see ... Congressmen Hastert, Boehner, Reynolds, Shimkus, Alexander and Kolbe; senior staffers Palmer and Fordham (amongst others); House Clerk Trendahl - all of them Republicans - had been told of Foley's behavior as recently as last spring or as long ago as 2000,
Anyone who read the Congressional Record's transcript of the page "graduation" speeches knew that Foley had a creepily over-friendly relationship with pages. Which I'm sure included virtually every pages' parents and lots of other friends and relatives.
yet didn't take effective action before ABC made the story public.
Nobody took any action after ABC made the Foley-is-over-friendly old news slightly more public than it already was. When they received new information (the IMs) they acted within hours.
Sara (Squiggler)

Verner, don't forget Chris and his mom. Chris being openly gay might have been the introduction to the gay hangouts online to the others. Or he may have been the source of the original gossip/rumors about Foley. And Loraditch is a little doughboy and we have Jordan saying on his MySpace site how he can't stand fat people. Lot of tensions going on in this age group. Couple that with political activism and ambition and a few "operatives" with few scruples and you end up with this mess. These young men were so far out of their league. They have no idea the ramifications of their little prank.

Sara (Squiggler)

Someone upthread mentioned that we have no idea what the LA former page's part of the emails were. I had not tuned into that, but it does raise the question as to why not?

If his end of the conversation was something like, "you remember Will, the guy who mountain biked all the time and was a body builder," would Foley's response seem sinister or just conversational? Much depends on what LA former page was saying from his end, I think, before we can really judge the entire scenario.

Even the pic mention comes in combo with a remark about Katrina. Does it follow remarks about the damage, or something of that nature? Maybe, maybe not. But wouldn't it make a difference how some of the questionable things are looked at?

verner

Oh, believe me Sara, I have not forgotten about her. Tell us, where's the book?

You will never convince me that the book was anything but a ploy to try and dig up dirt on republican congressmen. Her appearance with questions and surveys, and a phonecall to Jordan we must remember--was timed perfectly with Foley's aborted run for senate.

topsecretk9

Verner

--No Joke TS. There isn't a decent investigative journalist out there. They just wait to have their pulitzers delivered after some enemy of the administration hand feeds them classified info.---

Remember what Novak said in is Hubris takedown?

...A major factor in Isikoff's decision to collaborate with Corn presumably was the leftist journalist's close relationship with the Wilson's, which provided supposedly exclusive information on Valerie's CIA duties. But the information is mainly Wilson boilerplate. I am disappointed that so accomplished a reporter as Isikoff did not probe more deeply into exactly what Mrs. Wilson did at the Agency. He must have questioned the story that "Brewster-Jennings & Associates," a nonexistent, totally fictitious company publicly listed by Valerie as her employer, was a cover for many CIA operatives. He must have known that former New York Times reporter Clifford May had also learned that Mrs. Wilson worked for the CIA before my column appeared. None of this was explored by the authors.

I do credit Isikoff for rejecting the canard that the White House had been peddling the Valerie Plame story all over town (to at least six journalists) before it got to me. The book also identifies the "senior administration official" quoted in a Washington Post story as the source of the six-journalists story, and as saying that the White House was out for "purely and simply revenge" against Wilson. He turns out to be Adam Levine, an obscure, middle-level communications aide who soon left the White House.

In their tirade against the Bush White House, Isikoff and Corn found a hero: Paul Pillar, then the CIA officer in charge of the Middle East. During the 2004 election campaign, I wrote in a column that Pillar was delivering off-the-record briefings to citizens groups around the country, and was highly critical of the president seeking a second term. Probing such subversion at the CIA might have been an interesting exercise for an investigative reporter, but that is not what this book is about.

Novak make 2 excellent points...

1-how sloppy the 1x2x6 bombshell really was and really, how devastating to the profession that it took 3 years to learn this -- wouldn't you think other journalists reading this would want to delve into a juicy Admin who was saying "evil revenge" - in say October of 2003? nope.

2 - 2 sub stories -- Brewster Jennings and Paul Pillar - who a ripe for investigative journalism - almost over-ripe...languishing on the vine, I'd say.


That no investigative journalism on StopSecpred site - that's almost laughable and insulting in it's contrived shadowy built solely to pimp a story - is sort of embarrassingly glaring.


Journalists are really that dumb they think SSP appears just normal and not suspect?

I was thinking about SSP and Wonkette, and wondering why serious journalist are the least bit curious why an obscure anonymous blog that just popped into existence interested in exposing the E-quasisexmails of Gay congressmen...would get their first link from Wonkette -- the pillars of sexual policing? Or just the least bit curious how a blog received SCANS of the emails that match an Dem Operatives? --like NOT from the page himself!

Shoot the story has a shiny red bow and they could care less.

Sara (Squiggler)

I'll tell you what really bothers me about the Foley IMs. It isn't the sex talk as I've seen that go on all the time in chatrooms. But what really bothers me is how free Foley was in talking about his job and going to vote, etc. This is just unacceptable and shows a lack of caution that I don't want from anyone in a position of government. You may think you know who you are talking to, but when online you can never know for sure it is who he or she says she is.

I don't think Foley would have used so little caution had he been sober.

SlimGuy

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/11/AR2006101101639.html

Now, a rapidly escalating ethics investigation is trying to determine who is right. Peggy Sampson, a former Capitol Police officer who has supervised Republican pages since 1986, went before the committee yesterday. According to several former pages, Sampson was the adult who warned them to stay away from Foley, and she may be able to confirm his alleged visit to the pages' dormitory.

verner

Sara: Someone upthread mentioned that we have no idea what the LA former page's part of the emails were. I had not tuned into that, but it does raise the question as to why not?

It was me Sara, and you are exactly right. I'm not even clear that the page, or the parents ever sent his side of the conversation to anyone in congress. Think about it. How can you judge Foley's comments if you don't know what he was responding to? It's ridiculous! And we wonder why the FBI threw them into the garbage!

topsecretk9

Super OT

But Sara...are you in the Carlsbad area? Can you tell me a few decent pizza places in the Carlsbad area....I have a friend who just had her 3rd baby and among the many things I am getting, I want to have dinner delivered (and pizza just seems like the easiest - with delivery an all). If I ask HER she won't tell me because she won't want me to go to the trouble sort of thing. Do you know? No big if you don't.

verner

"Shoot the story has a shiny red bow and they could care less."


And what really really makes me so f--ing mad TS, is that we've all already done the heavy lifting for them! We've saved them hours of valuable research time! We've given them all the leads they need!

And it's a damn shame that we don't have the credentials, and the access to follow up on what we've found.

Sara (Squiggler)

Carlsbad is closer to the coast, I'm about 17 miles inland as the crow flies. If there is a Fillipis in Carlsbad, that is the place. Otherwise Papa Johns and Dominoes have the delivery market out here. If you Google Carlsbad, CA you'll get several city pages that give you lots of commercial choices including restaurants. It is a very upscale community.

Sara (Squiggler)

Sorry, more on pizza -- California Pizza is very popular and they are everywhere. I don't think they deliver. They tend toward the yuppie pizzas, pineapple, veggie, etc. Sort of gourmet pizza, I guess.

topsecretk9

Thanks Sara...I'll look to see if they have Fillipis...I am sure they have their favorite pizza takeout and hubby won't mind a momnet drive - with 3 under 3...I just can't think of another easy dinner takeout except I guess chinese - but then what do they like?

Maybe I can con him into telling me!

Argghh.

verner

The site is such a SHAM...even if it weren't an GOP vs. DEM thing, it's just LAME the media isn't furiously trying to be the first to feret out the con...if this site had a married DEM's emails up...you can be SURE the whole story would be ALL ABOUT the suspicios and shadowy BOOG - NOT the emails!

cboldt

verner -- We've saved them hours of valuable research time! --


ABC knows who approached them. The research here has been trying to determine what ABC knows and isn't telling. It's not in their political interests to come clean, and they also have "confidentiality" to hide behind.


One of the insiders, perhaps Edmunds, can break a good part of the "IM leak" facet of the story open.

Matthew Loraditch = Page, class of 2002, president Page Alumni Association, says Foley should be punished
Zack Stanton = Michigan page (D-Bonoir), class of 2002
Jordan Edmunds = California page (R), class of 2002, IMd with Foley in 2003
Christopher Katsaros = California page (D-Pelosi), class of 2003, (openly homosexual), mother Robin is writing a book
Jeff Trandahl = House clerk between January 1999 and November 2005 - oversaw the House Page program (openly homosexual)

verner

CBolt, don't forget Melanne--also a democrat page who was in their class and was on the board a whole lot. And JeffJoe (a kid named Lakin who is also a democrat michigan page at MSU-Lansing and was in the 03 class.)

I posted the link to the Lakin kid's blog, where he stated that he had been contacted by ABC, Fla papers etc., thought the whole thing was sleezy and dirty, and that he was considering leaving politics for good.

anonymous

And what really really makes me so f--ing mad TS, is that we've all already done the heavy lifting for them! We've saved them hours of valuable research time! We've given them all the leads they need!

And it's a damn shame that we don't have the credentials, and the access to follow up on what we've found.

Posted by: verner | October 11, 2006 at 07:42 PM

What is truly a crying shame is that you actually believe it.

verner

Anonymous:What is truly a crying shame is that you actually believe it.


Been right so far A-hole, which is why you're here! LOL

anonymous

And that, my dear "verner," is exactly what the problem is here. You arrive at your conclusion first, and then scurry back and grab whatever will support what you already think.

"... which is why you're here ... " ? because you've all been so "right?"

And you can't think of any othe reason?

verner

The "ignore the troll" button is now activated. BuBye...

SlimGuy

It needs someone with better diplomatci skills than I possess.

Posted by: Sara (Squiggler) | October 11, 2006 at 06:06 PM

Sort of reminds me of my dear old dad telling me that tact was the ability to tell someone to go to hell and make them feel glad they were on their way

topsecretk9

Anon...why wold anyone pay you to monitor a website that has it so wrong? Who is dumber?

Specter

TS,

If your friend is partial to Chicago or eastern style pizza then don't hold out much hope. I lived in SD area for 15 years and they really don't know how to make pizza out there. Now americanized Mexican and real Mexican - that you can get....lol.

SlimGuy

nd the number of chatrooms that cater to every facet of the gay community are in the dozens and dozens, if not hundreds.

Posted by: Sara (Squiggler) | October 11, 2006 at 06:22 PM

My wife and I were on AOL early enough that Steve Case would drop into public chat rooms for feedback and suggestions.

There have been some rumors but I have not drawn a conclusion about Case's own preferrences in that regard. Never took the time to follow up but it was routinely taken as a given by members of aol.

Many early users noted the high presense of gay oriented rooms on aol and some have even suggested with the reasonable theory that the mass national connection that aol allowed was part of the genesis of the national gay movement. Can't imagine how much gay agenda newsletter traffic passed thru aol's servers over the years.

Specter

BTW - is anyone as tired of political TV ads as I am? Too much. And what's worse - or maybe better - is that every single dem ad here says, "The Incumbent (fill in the blank) voted with George Bush. Isn't it time for a change?" Every single one. No issues put forth...just "I won't vote with George Bush" and assume they must have a plan. It is getting sickening....But hey - Joe is 10 points ahead of Unready Neddy so I guess that is something...

SlimGuy

I know we hav incomplete info on that website's ISP. I think it is very telling it is from Detroit at all, given Mr. Stanton's connection.

Posted by: MayBee | October 11, 2006 at 06:36 PM

Website server locations can be a tricky issue.

For example my wife's website is hosted by Bravenet, and I don't have a clue as to the physical location of the server but could find out. I can guarantee it is remote to where I live.

The only time you can tie a site to a certain physical situation is when the site owner is the site registerant of record and it is not a hosted website. It has to be run off your own server.

SlimGuy

Also, when he says "we" is he refering to Loraditch, or someone else?


Posted by: verner | October 11, 2006 at 07:02 PM

I suspect that if there was a good bit of background workup to the email/ with pending im release that Zack many have been working with Chris Kataros on coordinated im releases.

I believe ABC claimed they had im traffic from multiple pages, only je slipped out because of not being redacted. Would have to check his age, but he may also be the 21 year old california page that claims Foley did the nasty with him in the LA Times.

cboldt

-- The only time you can tie a site to a certain physical situation is when the site owner is the site registerant of record and it is not a hosted website. --

One can roughly tie the location of the serving machine via reference to IP. One can determine administrative contact information via whois. Server location and administrative contact location can be very different. But the administrative contact information in a `whois` record may represent the use of a proxy/agent to register the domain-name.

It's possible to determine the "hidden" controller of website content, as well as that person's physical location - but it's not possible to do so reliably using IP-to-geography or `whois`.

cboldt

Another point re: physical location of "owner" vs. location of the machine - and "hosted" sites. One can also have a static IP, dedicated machine, at a remote server farm. My ISP has relocated equipment from Maine, to California, to Florida - all transparent to the websited hosted under his control.

anonymous

Anon...why wold anyone pay you to monitor a website that has it so wrong? Who is dumber?

Posted by: topsecretk9 | October 11, 2006 at 08:30 PM

Now, dear, I don't mean this in a mean way: but, are you insane? Are you so deluded that you imagine anyone would pay someone to monitor this inane stream of semi-consciousness?

SlimGuy

Think about it. The best reporting so far has been by Wild Bill, A J, Mac, a few freepers and several people here at JOM.

Posted by: verner | October 11, 2006 at 07:12 PM

Maybe LGF could give it some more profile or maybe ACE

Seems we would have to get a fuller package to handoff to Malkin or Drude...Hugh Hewitt or Mary Ham could be considered or even Patterico.

Acually TM could do a summary post *cough cough*

Lol

cboldt

-- Would have to check [Jordan Edmunds] age, but he may also be the 21 year old california page that claims Foley did the nasty with him in the LA Times. --

I don't think it is. I do have quite a list of pages contacted by Foley, with quite a range of associated conduct. Most of the associations are anonymous. Hey ... maybey that's it. Anonymous has been screwing around with Foley!! [Gomer Pyle voice] Well, Gah-oh-leeeee!!

SlimGuy

But wouldn't it make a difference how some of the questionable things are looked at?

Posted by: Sara (Squiggler) | October 11, 2006 at 07:28 PM

That is why I put the big disclaimer on the kid. Everyone has taken it as premise the kid was pure as the driven snow.

But politics being politics and kids being kids you in a fair look at the situation have to give a look at could the kid just be kindling for the fire or the piezzo electric starter.

After all he could have replied with my parents wouldn't like this sir if they saw it on my computer so please stop this contact or if you don't I will let my parents know and block your emails or add them to my spam list.

MJW

I was thinking, without coming to any conclusion, about WaPo's "Republican" source.

Reading what he has to say, it's almost impossible not to suspect he's a moby (I like that term!), like all those C-Span lifelong Republican callers who just can't bring themselves to vote Rupublican in the next election because, curiously, they agree with the full litany of Democratic talking points.

However, I'd be surprised if a Republican page would switch sides so quickly, and, despite the article's high spin coefficient, I'd be surprised it the WaPo would pass off a Democratic page as a Republican.

wilky

Has anybody seen this in Harpers?

http://www.harpers.org/sb-republicans-1160492797.html


"In May, a source put me in touch with a Democratic operative who provided me with the now-infamous emails that Foley had sent in 2004 to a sixteen-year-old page. He also provided several emails that the page sent to the office of Congressman Rodney Alexander, a Louisiana Republican who had sponsored him when he worked on Capitol Hill. “Maybe it is just me being paranoid, but seriously, This freaked me out,” the page wrote in one email. In the fall of 2005, my source had provided the same material to the St. Petersburg Times—and I presume to the Miami Herald—both of which decided against publishing stories."

Rick Ballard

Skip LGF - Pajamas is overinvested in Corn futures.

Townhouse has an easy setup for new blogs - TSK9, Verner and SlimGuy could be up and running a joint blog in no time and I imagine Ham and Hewitt would pick it up very quickly.

I would suggest a playbill and chronology right in the first post - this isn't a two character one scene production.

topsecretk9

--The only time you can tie a site to a certain physical situation is when the site owner is the site registerant of record and it is not a hosted website. It has to be run off your own server.

Posted by: SlimGuy | October 11, 2006 at 08:43 PM--

Slim

The brialliance of the LGF honey pot...is they sent emails to the SSP-gmail account inviting SSP to see their info on their blog...since their blogs were unknown and pristine...they were able to determine the single visitor to each site had the SAME IP addy...AKA..SSPred took the bait.

So Royal Okas is off an comp. veiwer IP addy, -- we aren't talking blogspot add...which just goes to google- los altos or some such

topsecretk9

BTW


South Park...tonight about the "truthers" is...um...f___ing hilarious...seriously.

Potomac Joe

MJW: "However, I'd be surprised if a Republican page would switch sides so quickly, and, despite the article's high spin coefficient, I'd be surprised it the WaPo would pass off a Democratic page as a Republican."

Perhaps the WaPo allowed the source to just read his voter registration card to the reporter over the phone.

topsecretk9

--South Park---

The 9-11 conspiracy is.... all....a government controlled conspiracy!

topsecretk9

---I'd be surprised if a Republican page would switch sides so quickly, and, despite the article's high spin coefficient, I'd be surprised it the WaPo would pass off a Democratic page as a Republican."--

Keep in mind, Joe Wilson and Larry Johnson are republican...but to the question of the WAPO passing people off as something they aren't? OH..sometimes they even elevate their position too...

...7. 1x2x6=0: The 1x2x6 story (One Administration whistleblower tells the Mike Allen of the WaPo that two White House told the "Wilson and wife" story to six reporters) gets trashed. The key passage from the WaPo, which for a while framed the Fitzgerald investigation:

Yesterday, a senior administration official said that before Novak's column ran, two top White House officials called at least six Washington journalists and disclosed the identity and occupation of Wilson's wife.

Emphasis added - in brief, an editor added "before Novak's column ran" to clarify the prose, but had misinterpreted what reporter Mike Allen was trying to say. Apparently the early morning edition of that day's paper are now a Plame Collector's Classic, because they ran "clean" [i.e., without the editor's addition of "before]. In fact, some of the "Six" were contacted after Novak's column ran. Calling attention to a published story that whacks a critic may be hardball, and it may not be done for the purest of motives, but it is not a crime to exhort reporters to read the newspaper.

'Hubris' also notes that the following day the "senior administration official" was downgraded to an "administration aide", and tell us that the WaPo discussed running a correction but figured, why bother.

And who was the "One"? In a July 2005 reprise of the Plame story Mike Allen revised his source to be a "senior White House official"; per Isikoff/Corn, Adam Levine of the press office had repeated contacts with Allen the day before the story broke and thinks he may be the "One".

That said, Levine did not use the word "revenge", which provided the juicy quote from the original story:

"Clearly, it was meant purely and simply for revenge," the senior official said of the alleged leak.

However, even that was not so clear and subsequent stories back-pedaled from that - by Oct 12, the motive was as "pushback":

That same week, two top White House officials disclosed Plame's identity to least six Washington journalists, an administration official told The Post for an article published Sept. 28. The source elaborated on the conversations last week, saying that officials brought up Plame as part of their broader case against Wilson.

"It was unsolicited," the source said. "They were pushing back. They used everything they had."

Anyway, there is your Washington math - 1x2x6=0.


Why bother appears to be standard operating procedure for reporting.

MayBee

It's possible to determine the "hidden" controller of website content, as well as that person's physical location - but it's not possible to do so reliably using IP-to-geography or `whois`.

If you go to Ray Wert's blog, and right click to get page info, one of the bits of info that comes up is an ICBM= followed by a lat/long number. I plugged that number into google maps and it brought me to a house, in a neighborhood, in the small wealthy suburb that is on the internet as Ray Wert's home suburb.

Now, maybe it isn't his home. But it isn't an industrial/commercial address.

SlimGuy

Cboldt

I was referring to Chris Kataros, robin's kid as the california dude. He is openly gay, just wonder if the age fits. From pictures of JE attending parties with his friends I have seen on the web he always has an arm aroung the best lookin female in the house. YMMV

SlimGuy

So Royal Okas is off an comp. veiwer IP addy, -- we aren't talking blogspot add...which just goes to google- los altos or some such

Posted by: topsecretk9 | October 11, 2006 at 09:14 PM

ANY blogspot site would track back to google servers so the replys to the bait sites had to be some other email account via an isp that was identifyable. Messages from gmail would also point to google.

The perp surfed from his own computer at his residence. You can mail from a website but not surf from it.

SlimGuy

Now, maybe it isn't his home. But it isn't an industrial/commercial address.

Posted by: MayBee | October 11, 2006 at 09:40 PM

Plug it into googleearth and see what you get
and you get a square landing on a house on the edge of a golf course on Sherwood Gln which is 10.2 miles by travel distance from that Royal Oak Political meeting talked about in last nights thread

MJW

Potomac Joe, TSK9,

Perhaps I'm too trusting, but I would assume that that the reporter knows who the "Republican" ex-page is, and at least confimed he was sponsored by a Republican (and not, say, by a pre-jump Alexander).

topsecretk9

--Messages from gmail would also point to google.--

I am BY NO MEANS an expert on this but gmails can ultimately be tracked, I am pretty sure...and the boys at LGF went ahead an paid for the more in depth and I think they were pretty confident on this location...

Gabriel's suggestion on a one flow on just the IP track was a good one, it seems.

On a gmail emails thing though...the one WEIRD link Stoppred has, to the Michigan PR guy???? who just so happens to have started another blogspot blog in July??? (note SSP says check this link on predator resources (the July blogspot - that just so happens to spot light MI predator resourced) --who happens to be linked to this PR blog (which has NOTHING to do with sexual predators!)

I found a link to someone offer up their gmail invitations and PR guy requesting one.

SlimGuy

TS

The bottom line is they caught his browser ip he didn't return mail..that would still track back to google one way or the other.

topsecretk9

MJW

I don't think "trusting" is the right word...maybe "not cynical"

but ---

but I would assume that that the reporter knows who the "Republican" ex-page is, and at least confimed he was sponsored by a Republican


----

the Congress sponsor does not necessarily mean page agrees with sponsor politics...I view this as a Navel Academy sponsorship.

MJW

TSK9,

I know almost nothing about the congressional page system, but I was under the impression that the appointments went almost exclusively to the the kids of friends and big political supporters. Though, even if this is so, sometimes the acorn does fall far from the tree.

SlimGuy

Ts

If you want a wake up call on what your browser tells a site when you visit it try this link

http://network-tools.com/analyze

Scroll down for the results

MayBee

Loraditch seems pretty pro-republican on his page board.
I suspect, although I could be wrong, that he and Zack had different reasons for doing what they did.

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