Move On Dot Murtha - Don't They Know We Are At War?

John Murtha defends his reported characterization of a proposed ethics reform bill as "total crap":

"...it is total crap that we have to deal with an issue like this when we’ve got a war going on and we got all these other issues."

Right, then - so when Henry Waxman, muckraking chair of the Government Reform Committee, announces that he hopes to probe, per the Sun-Times, "the response to Hurricane Katrina, government contracting in Iraq and on homeland security, decision-making at the Environmental Protection Agency and the Food and Drug Administration, and allegations of corporate profiteering", we can expect Murtha to denounce the effort as "total crap".  We need to look forward, not backward, yes?

Well, this is what Nancy wants... and it is a sobering moment.  Zealous righties spent the fall caricaturing Nancy Pelosi as a crazed San Fran Dem, but I always had the secret hope that we were exaggerating.  Oh, well.  Coherence of vision was not her forte during the campaign, so why should it be so now?

Mickey notes that  Murtha engaged in a sliding usage of "crap" - earlier in the transcript, the ethics reform was "crap" in the sense that, as Matthews helpfully explained, it was a "Mickey Mouse" reform.  Oh, well - I am confident that the Times will sort this out.  Hello... I see some Reuters coverage, and will get back with a "What is in the Dead Tree Edition" report later. [No 'Crap' In The Times! - they cover the Murtha debacle in an editorial and a half-hearted article - see UPDATE and alert Mickey (my email is out)]

To compound the comedy Murtha opened the interview with a cogent "We don't need no stinkin' generals" explanation of his "plan" for Iraq:

MATTHEWS:  A lot of Democrats are sitting around on their hands saying, let’s wait for Jim Baker and his bipartisan commission and Lee Hamilton to tell us what to do.  What do you think of that approach?

MURTHA: Well, I think we have to go forward.  I think the public is demanding some action on this issue.  I don’t think they’ll accept anything less, and I’m hopeful that the—I talked to Baker-Hamilton Commission, but whatever they say, they have to find a way to give a timetable to redeploy our troops.  And we have to do it fairly soon, because the public wants something to happen. 

...MATTHEWS:  Well, what about General Abizaid today, the top guy at CENTCOM, coming on the Senate committee today, the Armed Services Committee, and saying I don’t want any timetables?

MURTHA: Chris, they keep saying this over and over again.  They keep saying that we’ve made progress.  We haven’t made progress.  As a matter of fact, oil production, electricity production, all those things are below pre-war level.  Every measure -- 60 percent unemployment. Violence has gone up, not down.  We have 130,000 troops on the ground and it’s gotten worse during the last six months.

Here is the Times coverage of the hearing at which Abizaid spoke:

The top American military commander for the Middle East said Wednesday that to begin a significant troop withdrawal from Iraq over the next six months would lead to an increase in sectarian killings and hamper efforts to persuade the Iraqi government to make the difficult decisions needed to secure the country.

The commander, Gen. John P. Abizaid, made it clear that he did not endorse the phased troop withdrawals being proposed by Democratic lawmakers. Instead, he said the number of troops in Iraq might be increased by a small amount as part of new plans by American commanders to improve the training of the Iraqi Army.

General Abizaid did not rule out a larger troop increase, but he said the American military was stretched too thin to make such a step possible over the long term. And he said such an expansion might dissuade the Iraqis from making more of an effort to provide for their own security.

...Skepticism among lawmakers from both parties was palpable, and the concerns of the lawmakers were reinforced by intelligence officials who testified later in the day and who painted a more pessimistic portrait of the violence in Iraq than General Abizaid did.

...

In their testimony on Wednesday, Gen. Michael V. Hayden, director of the Central Intelligence Agency, and Lt. Gen. Michael D. Maples, director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, said they agreed with General Abizaid that American forces were one of the few elements keeping a lid on violence in Iraq and that withdrawing troops would only increase sectarian violence.

But General Maples said that the violence continued to increase in “scope, complexity and lethality” and that it was “creating an atmosphere of fear and hardening sectarianism, which is empowering militias and vigilante groups.”

In all of Iraq, attacks against allied troops last month averaged 180 per day, up from 170 per day in September and 70 per day in January, General Maples said in written testimony. Daily attacks on Iraqi civilians averaged roughly 40 per day last month, four times higher than the average in January. General Maples also noted that recent operations in Baghdad had achieved only a moderate success, because after American officials had turned neighborhoods over to the Iraqis, “attacks returned to and even surpassed preoperational levels.”

Reinforcing this view, General Hayden said the C.I.A. station in Baghdad assessed that Iraq was deteriorating to a chaotic state, with the political center disintegrating and rival factions increasingly warring with each other. “Their view of the battlefield is that it is descending into smaller and smaller groups fighting over smaller and smaller issues over smaller and smaller pieces of territory,” he said.

The two intelligence officials said Wednesday that there were only an estimated 1,300 foreign fighters in the country and that the number of Sunni Arab insurgents actively planning and carrying out attacks on American forces was probably more than 10,000.

Senator Jack Reed, Democrat of Rhode Island, asked General Abizaid how much time the United States had to bring down the violence in Baghdad before events there were beyond the control of the Iraqi government. General Abizaid said the answer was four to six months.

On an issue which is now, one might argue, "total crap", Abizaid denounced Rumsfeld's troop level decision of 2003:

General Abizaid also publicly said for the first time that the American position in Iraq had been undermined by the Bush administration’s decision not to deploy a larger force to stabilize the country in 2003. That decision was made after Gen. Eric K. Shinseki, the Army chief of staff at the time, told Congress that several hundred thousand troops would be needed. His testimony was derided by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, and the general was ostracized at the Pentagon before his retirement a few months later.

“General Shinseki was right that a greater international force contribution, U.S. force contribution and Iraqi force contribution should have been available immediately after major combat operations,” General Abizaid said. “I think you can look back and say that more American troops would have been advisable in the early stages of May, June, July.”

On the Shinseki story, this has been kicked around repeatedly, but here we go again - Shinseki had clashed with Rumsfeld over such issues as the Crusader weapons systems and Rumsfeld's vision of a leaner, meaner military.  His retirement had been pre-announced roughly fourteen months before it became effective (essentially neutering him), which was well before his controversial Congressional testimony.

UPDATE:  No 'Crap' At The Times:  The Times speaks out against Murtha in a bowdlerized editorial:

...So far, the Democrats seem not to have paid much attention to the tattered baggage lugged into the limelight by Representative John Murtha of Pennsylvania, the Iraq war critic who is Speaker-to-be Nancy Pelosi’s choice for second in command. And yesterday, Republicans resurrected Trent Lott, the Mississippi senator who fell from the majority leader’s post three years ago.

For all his commendable instincts in articulating the Bush administration’s Iraq failures, Mr. Murtha has long been known in the Capitol as a crude master of swapping pork-barrel budget goodies for lobbyists’ campaign lucre. Only recently, he stood out for opposing strong ethics reform.

And while Ms. Pelosi is vowing to hammer home ethics reform as her first order of business, the Capitol newspaper Roll Call reported that Mr. Murtha was vulgarly belittling her program in private meetings with lawmakers. Mr. Murtha’s ambition is directed against the current No. 2, Representative Steny Hoyer of Maryland, who also is no slouch in maintaining overly close ties to the K Street business and lobbying powers.

Carl Hulse also takes a half-hearted stab at this:

Many Say Leadership Race Damages Democrats’ Image

By CARL HULSE

WASHINGTON, Nov. 15 — House members acknowledged on Wednesday that the increasingly bitter contest for majority leader was sullying the image of unity and new direction that Democrats hoped to convey.     

“It’s four days that we haven’t talked about our message and built on the euphoria,” said Representative Ellen O. Tauscher, a California Democrat who is supporting Representative Steny H. Hoyer of Maryland in the leadership vote on Thursday. “We had such perfect pitch last week.”

Downtrodden Republicans were enjoying the spectacle of the split between Representative Nancy Pelosi, the incoming speaker, who is publicly pushing Representative John P. Murtha, her longtime ally, and Democrats rallying behind Mr. Hoyer, who has served in the leadership slot beneath Ms. Pelosi for four years.

...

Mr. Murtha himself has thrown more fuel on that fire. Members of the conservative Democratic Blue Dog group said that during an appearance before them Tuesday, Mr. Murtha disparaged an ethics overhaul that Ms. Pelosi and the leadership have been promising as one of their first orders of business.

Two lawmakers at the session confirmed that the comment, first reported by the Capitol Hill newspaper Roll Call, left many stunned, given the new scrutiny Mr. Murtha’s deal-making on the Appropriations Committee has drawn, along with his involvement in the 1980 Abscam bribery sting run by the F.B.I. He was never charged in that case, but a widely circulated film showed him being offered a bribe and responding that he was not interested in the money “at this time.”

In an interview on the MSNBC show “Hardball” Wednesday afternoon, Mr. Murtha said that at the time of Abscam he was interested in attracting foreign investment to relieve high unemployment in his Pennsylvania district and, though suspicious of the offer, wanted to keep open the possibility of legitimate investment. As for the ethics package promoted by Ms. Pelosi, Mr. Murtha said he was complaining that Congressional wrongdoing was superceding other matters “when we’ve got a war going on and we got all these other issues — $8 billion a month we’re spending.”

Mr. Hulse really lets Murtha off easy on the Abscam situation - TPM Muckrakers presents a much more damning backstory while they pass the time waiting for the Waxman press releases.  The Times tells us that Murtha was never charged but they omit the intercession of House Speaker Tip O'Neill on Murtha's behalf.

As to the Times fear that a family paper can't run the word "crap" - it appeared in the Style section in a Paris Hilton story on July 2, 2006 and columist Dave Barry was quoted in the business section using just that vulgarity on June 27, 2006.  Maybe the Times just doesn't want young readers to discover that even Democrats can swear, be corrupt, and cut deals to save their own skin.

HOPE SHE ENJOYED THE HONEYMOON:  The final tally is in:

House Democrats chose Representative Steny H. Hoyer of Maryland as their majority leader today after a bruising fight that cast a cloud over the party’s post-election celebration.

The election of Mr. Hoyer over Representative John P. Murtha of Pennsylvania, by a vote of 149 to 86, was an embarrassing setback for Representative Nancy J. Pelosi of California, who will be speaker of the House in the new Congress and had backed Mr. Murtha.

All the gushing Pelosi profiles describing her firm sure-footed leadership have been spiked.

And let's re-highlight this from the Chris Matthews interview with his "friend" John Murtha:

MATTHEWS: ...So let’s get to questions that everybody wants answered.  First of all, it’s a secret ballot tomorrow, right?

REP. JOHN MURTHA (D), PENNSYLVANIA:  Right.

MATTHEWS:  Are you going to win?

MURTHA:  We’re going to win, we’ve got the votes.

MATTHEWS:  You’ve got them?

MURTHA:  We’ve got the votes.

MATTHEWS:  Eyeball to eyeball, you’ve got them?

MURTHA:  Eyeball to eyeball.

Comments

[Stormy70]

Chris Matthews is pathetic. He can't help it, he has to walk back the screw ups of the Democratic party. Murtha will be 24 hour entertainment for the next 2 years, since he is Ca-caca.

[lurker]

Are the House Democrats Revolting?

As Riehl and Crittendon says, "Just Sit Back and Enjoy!"

Flying has just gotten expensive.

[hit and run]

Are the House Democrats Revolting?

The answer is obviously yes.

I find them extremely revolting.

[PeterUK]

All withdrawals are "Phase withdrawals",gone are the days when the Athenians could be gone from the walls of Troy overnight.It takes as long to redeploy troops as it does deploy them,130,000 personel with full kit takes some moving.
It would be good if there could be some discussion of the buzz phrases being bandied about which are used as a substitute for reality/

[Ranger]

Hmmm... Does this line strike anyone as familiar?

"The Democrats intend to lead the most honest, most open and most ethical Congress in history," Pelosi pledged on election night.

WoPo, Wednesday, November 15, 2006; Page A21 via Ann Althouse, via Instapundit

Sounds to me kind of like Bill Clinton promising the most ethical administration in history, and we all know how that worked out.

Is this kind of hyperbolic talk an indication of deliberate deception? Just asking.

[lurker]

Larry Elder says Yes on deliberate deception.

Oh, how revolting they are.

[Ric Locke]

Is this kind of hyperbolic talk an indication of deliberate deception? Just asking.

I don't know. But I have noticed that one of the things missing from the last few days is major appearances by George Bush.

When he's on his form, one of Bush's main political assets is a near-infinite supply of rope. If I were advising him, I'd tell him to become as invisible as possible for the next little while. Pelosi and the rest are following modern political practice by proclaiming, and apparently assuming, that winning by a thin and ambiguous margin constitutes a landslide mandate, and it'll be interesting to see what happens when the public comes to believe they have total, in-fee-simple ownership of the problems.

Regards,
Ric

[Jack on Track]

Nothing like creating your own "rock and hard place". Has it been less than 10 days from the night of euphoria? As Abizaid said yesterday to Hillary, "when I come to Washington, I feel despair". Geez, from euphorial triumphalism to despair and its a lame duck congress. Hope springs eternal but ye who live in that die in s**t. I believe Karl Rove is Murtha's campaign manager. Nothing will make W look like a freeking genius than to have Pelosi, Murtha, Hastings and Waxman running things.

[maryrose]

When your enemy is destroying themselves -get out of the way. Democratic infighting is a part of who they are as a party. Rahm was able to capitalize on dissatisfaction with the Iraq war and by recruiting conservative candidates. My disappointment comes in when someone like Simmons of Connecticut loses by 97 votes. Was he out campaigning vigorously during this election season or was he complacent like some other Republicans? The repubs that didn't take their House or Senate seat for granted won-those that did Allen and Leach lost.I hope Allen runs for Governor of Virginia and I hope that Leach and Steele get some good adnministrative jobs. Keep Bolton without the title and get a few judges confirmed before the switch.I feel sorry for the Afican-Americans in Maryland-they just blew their best chance of securing a foothold in Maryland politics. Easily the biggest disappointment this election season. As to Burns in Montana- I think they just wanted a younger Senator to represent them.

[iu]

Term limits

[Sue]

I think Murtha is blowing smoke before his 15 minutes are up. I doubt he has the votes.

[Joe]

Murtha is either lying or misinformed on his Iraq details too: oil production is above pre-war levels, as is electricity, potable water, telephones, radio stations, internet access. Infant mortality rate is better too.

This will be fun to watch.

[iu]

DIA is going to do domestic spy work. CIA analysts are moving to DIA/NSA under Air force, so it makes sense that they want the same powers the CIA has domestically. But Plame did all that work with domestice political groups and used NSA assets to check on them, so maybe DIA is all forgiven CIA and Plame like Fitz's crminal conspiracy investigation.

DIA was pretty much for when CIA screwed up, especially domestically, (under the five year law) and Plame was one of those screw ups; so where is DIA on all this when it gets political?

[Ranger]

Actually, I am hoping that Murtha wins, because then someone can run a TV add comparing Murtha's pride in his role in convincing Clinton to cut and run from Somlia with UBL's statements that Somalia is where he learned that Americans are cowards that are easy to beat, then asks why Murtha wants to lead America into defeat again. Murtha's seat may be safe, but I have a feeling using him as the offical face of the democratic party for the next two years will help republicans a lot more then democrats in those close districts the dems won with conservative candididates.

[DaveP.]

So we're gonna have a guy famous for taking money from Middle Easterners for doing their bidding in Congress... in a major leadership position in Congress.

Only the Democrats, folks.

[TallDave]

the C.I.A. station in Baghdad assessed that Iraq was deteriorating to a chaotic state

Yeah, and I hear their assessment is "a slam dunk case."

[Greg D]

As a matter of fact, oil production, electricity production, all those things are below pre-war level... We have 130,000 troops on the ground and it’s gotten worse during the last six months.

So, is Murtha that stupid, or does he just think we are? How in the world does "below pre-war level[s]" prove "gotten worse during the last six months"?

[maryrose]

Ranger:
yes that would be an interesting scenario but I agree with Sue: Murtha's 15 minutes are almost up. His appearance on Hardball to walk back his criminal activity with Abscam and his"crap" comment were priceless. Matthews liked it so much he played it twice on the same program. Murtha is a modern day grifter.

[Specter]

maryrose,

Yes - Simmons lost. And then what did he do? He graciously stepped aside rather than demand a run-off as was his right (and as any Dem would do - right TT?). BTW - he did campaign very hard, but that has always been a district where it comes down to a few votes. At least in the 15 years I've been up here. But Courtney? He has a rep for raising taxes. Here we go....

[clarice]

It is entertaining. I am beginning to believe that Murtha is suffering from dementia. Nancy is just stupid.She won the whip slot over Hoyer in large part because she had the support of the Cal Fem delegation.

OT: Here's my piece on the Plame civil suit.
http://americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=6046

[roanoke]

Notice from the transcript-Murtha is so proud of being on 143 talk shows as the anti-war hero he says it twice. Of course Liberals traditionally come here and tell us how dare we question the "authorities" aka the NYT et al.

On those talk shows Murtha leaned on his pal Abizaid quite a bit-using this quote often to describe his position as being aligned with Abiziad's-

Afterward, he went over to see Congressman John Murtha, the 73-year old former Marine who had introduced a resolution the previous November calling for the redeployment of troops from Iraq as soon as practicable. Sitting at the round, dark wood table in the congressman’s office, Abizaid, the one uniformed military commander who had been intimately involved in Iraq from the beginning and who was still at it, indicated he wanted to speak frankly. According to Murtha, Abizaid raised his hand for emphasis and held his thumb and forefinger a quarter of an inch from each other and said, “We’re that far apart.”

Quote from Woodward excerpt in Newsweek.Source

Now that the election is over-they are no longer "close" maybe because Murtha's got so much crap on his hands.

[Tom Maguire]

Sounds to me kind of like Bill Clinton promising the most ethical administration in history

I thought Clinton promised to make history with his ethics... Mission Accomplished!

Re Somalia - I don't think it generated a lot of buzz but the Times had a story a day or two back that Somalia sent 700 fighters to lebanon to aid Hezbollah. Coordinated by Iran and Syria, natch.

Turning Iraq into the next Somalia - not good.

I think Murtha is blowing smoke before his 15 minutes are up. I doubt he has the votes.

I can see why he might attempt a self-fulfilling lie - what idiot wants to oppose both the incoming Speaker and the next Majority Leader?

But of the lie is exposed, he makes Pelosi look even worse than she is already making herself look.

Of course, if he wins, then the Dems have a corrupt dinosaur who annoys the libs on every issue but Iraq. Possible message - "Just Like having Republicans in Charge, Except For Iraq".

I will never be smart enough to be a Dem strategist.

[roanoke]

what idiot wants to oppose both the incoming Speaker and the next Majority Leader?

One in need of a long soak in a vat of Aricept....

Come on HE has been on 143 talk shows how dare you question his.....er, manhood or something.

[roanoke]

I've got his "Fight Club" nom de guerre-

Mad Murtha the Merde-ist

{Ugh. I tag myself out...}

[clarice]

Showing once again that Novak is out of the loop, Nancy was just unanimously elected speaker.

[Ranger]

Well, here is something that I just remembered. The Speaker's job goes to the person that gets the most votes, regardless of the total number, so if Murtha gets the leader slot, then the RNC can start running adds in a lot of blue dog democrat districts over the next two months reminding everyone who Murtha is (ABSCAM, Pork, Proud of convincing Clinton to cut and run from Somalia which leads to UBL beleaving the US is easy to defeat). Then point out that Murtha is Nancy's hand picked choice. Then the tag line "Congress person X ran as a conservative who would clean up congress, but now they are going to vote to install a corrupt leadership under Nancy Pelosi and Jack Murtha."

The point, Pelosi will probably still win, but if she wins with only 210 votes out of a 229 member caucus, she is damaged goods from the outset. And maybe she doesn't even win. And it sets up the 2008 congressional campaign, where every blue dog democrat has to run against a generic add that simply says, they claim to be a conservative, but they voted for Nancy as speaker.

[clarice]

As to Abazaid, according to Murtha his claim that the Haditha Marines were cold blooded murderers was supported by General Hagee's briefing of him. As it turned out, Hagee never briefed him until AFTER he made that claim.

[lurker]

Unanimously?

Gee, shows how dumb those democrats are.

Did I read correctly that Murtha won?

[clarice]

By the way, the WaPo and NYT and Pittsburgh papers can take credit for Murtha..They buried his flaws all of which were pointed out this election by Diane Irey who was a wonderful candidate.

[tomU]

By the time of OIF, Shinseki had no credibility. He was disloyal to Rumsfeld, back dooring the SecDef by running to Daniel Inoue (then Chair of the Senate Armed Services Committee, thanks to Jim Jeffords) in order to rescue an undeployable monstrosity of a weapons system, called the Crusader, which Rumsfeld had correctly decided to cancel. That strategy was good for Shinseki, only until the Republicans won back the Senate and Shinseki lost his political cover. Rumsfeld was quite correct to in effect sack Shinseki, who had engaged in behavior that he himself would never have tolerated in a subordinate. Finally, sending 3,000,000,000,000 men was the only solution Shinseki ever proposed for ANY problem, knowing it would be a non starter. Richard Schulze noted that this was the way Shinseki and Henry Shelton were able to tell the Clinton Administration "we don't do windows." Any plan to try and get bin Laden in Afghanistan during the 1990s using Special Forces was met by a "no, this is too risky" response, followed by, let's send 100,000 men, knowing that it would be a political non-starter. Sending 100,000 men to Afghanistan was also Shinseki's response to 9/11, thus replicating the Russian experience. It was also the kind of thinking that interested neither Rumsfeld nor Tommy Franks. I should also point out many of the retired flags such as Shinseki, Zinni and Clark, were running the Pentagon when al Qaeda was metastasizing in to the menace that manifested itself on 9/11. None of Clinton's Sec Defs had the ability to ride herd on these guys. They, however, have never been called to account for their mistakes.

[Miracle Max]

Murtha is to Abscam as McCain is to S&L.

[Sue]

I can see why he might attempt a self-fulfilling lie - what idiot wants to oppose both the incoming Speaker and the next Majority Leader?

You don't expect an answer, do you? ::grin::

In the event you do, the same idiot who throws out Okinawa as a redeployment option. The same idiot who tries to explain the word "crap". The same idiot who is on camera saying not yet, not until you prove I can trust you.

[Sue]

BREAKING NEWS:

Conservatives with Attitude! insiders are informing us that Congressman John Murtha will DROP OUT of the running for the number 2 spot in the House as Majority Leader.

Polipundit

[clarice]

That's been withdrawn per hot air. It was a false report, Sue.

[Sue]

Dems Voting Now

[Sue]

Well, it would seem as if he had withdrawn a vote wouldn't be needed, but it could be a procedural vote. I don't know. I know the one at hotair was in reference to the national journal. This one is from polipundit.

[Sue]

ABCNews radio is saying Hoyer won by a large margin.

[Sue]

Druge is also reporting Murtha is out.

[Sue]

Steny Hoyer elected Majority Leader 149-86

[hit and run]

Druge is also reporting Murtha is out.

Of the closet? He's gay? Did he have any inappropriate contact with pages?

Oh wait, that's not what you meant :)

[PeterUK]

"The Democrats intend to lead the most honest, most open and most ethical Congress in history," Pelosi pledged on election night".

"The louder he spoke of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons."

Ralph Waldo Emerson.

[Sue]

H&R,

You are just looking for this...

::grin::

...and you got it.

[hit and run]

Well, that certainly was a short-lived era.

“She will ensure that they [the Murtha camp] win. This is hard-ball politics,” said Rep. Jim Moran (D-Va.), a longtime Murtha supporter. “We are entering an era where when the Speaker instructs you what to do, you do it.”

[Specter]

Pelosi is Toast before she starts.

[moptop]

Dang. I wanted Murtha in. We should have just kept our mouths shut for a couple of years, a la Foley.

On the bright side, the Nutsroots were for Murtha big time.

[moptop]

Dang. I wanted Murtha in. We should have just kept our mouths shut for a couple of years, a la Foley.

On the bright side, the Nutsroots were for Murtha big time.

[Specter]

Murtha Lied, Majority Post Died

[roanoke]

Murtha: Okay crrrrrrrap I surrender-and I bluffed about the war, er, vote but I still think it's a winning strategy-surrender that is.

Keep up you corkers!

[hit and run]

moptop - we should demand that Murtha demand that there be a recount! Make the votes public! Is there a paper trail? How do we know that Diebold wasn't involved? If the congresspersons had to show id to get into the capital in order to cast their votes, they may have been disenfranchised. There may be rumors that Hoyer had his people conduct robo-calls to other members. And don't forget, Hoyer just recently used the word "slavenly", clearly he is racist.

He must step down!

[rarango]

I never gave Pelosi any credit for smarts--ambition yes, intelligence no; she has the same problem with syntax as does the President and clearly did not have her finger on the pulse of the house. It isnt good to start out as damaged goods, no matter how the democrat apologists paint this; I think we will be looking at a much more split congress than the democrats would have liked: the Pelosi/Murtha branch, and the Hoyer branch. Will be interesting to see how the votes went within the democratic caucus.

[Bob]

Milton Friedman has died.

Truly a brilliant man. He'll be missed but never forgotten.

[Some Guy]

Of course, Chris Matthews also used to work for Tip O'Neil, the man who got Murtha out of his Abscam trouble. And Matthews was interviewing Murtha about ethics rules. Wonder why Abscam never came up.

[moptop]

I too had a secret hope that Pelosi was more moderate than she obviously is. Maybe the Congress is more moderate than Pelosi. Since there is nothing to be done about it for two years, I will just think happy thoughts.

It was rich to watch lefty posters twist themselves into knots defending Johnny Abscam. On the other hand, I would not be surprised if many of them had never heard of the video, now on youtube, showing their "decorated hero" negotiating over the size of a bribe with the FBI, and explaining how he needed more cover than the other guys because he wanted to be in the leadership some day. After all, the MSM would not touch the story.

[roanoke]

http://www.chicagoboyz.net/

Bob you might want to watch the above blog for more on Friedman.

[clarice]

Irey ran it in her campaign--no one listened.
Nancy now says,"Let the healing begin." If I'm any judge of character, I think Murtha will not go quietly into the night, but will continue to be an embarrassment to the party, though its press enablers are less likely to record his rantings now.

[Sara (Squiggler)]

You Don't Know Jack

A website devoted to what you don't know about Jack Murtha.

[lurker]

Kerry, too, Clarice.

[Sara (Squiggler)]

Oops, should be You Don't Know Jack

Sorry for the screwed up link above.

[hit and run]

Murtha was swiftboated by the chickenhawks in the dem caucus.

Murtha for president in '08!

[hit and run]

Or Murtha for VP?

Kerry-Murtha in '08

One says only idiots joint the military, while winking and nodding his head in the direction of his running mate.

[Ranger]

Hmmmm...

“She will ensure that they [the Murtha camp] win. This is hard-ball politics,” said Rep. Jim Moran (D-Va.), a longtime Murtha supporter. “We are entering an era where when the Speaker instructs you what to do, you do it.”

Steny Hoyer elected Majority Leader 149-86

Looks like when Nancy says "Jump" her caucus says "screw you."

And wasn't Moran the guy who told a private fundraiser crowd 'When we're in charge, I'm gona earmark the s### out of it.' or words to that effect? No wonder he was backing Murtha so hard.

[Sara (Squiggler)]

Someone upthread asked "where's George Bush?" In case you missed it, he is out of the country. I think yesterday he was in VietNam for a meeting on trade talks, made all the harder by the Congressional vote down of trade with Vietnam just two days before GWB left on the trip.

[clarice]

Looks to me, like Hoyer is in reality the new speaker. Pelosi is just a token.

[RDEKNG]

Am I the only one who noticed we have a sex scandal already?

"Downtrodden Republicans were enjoying the spectacle of the split between Representative Nancy Pelosi, the incoming speaker, who is publicly pushing Representative John P. Murtha, her longtime ally, and Democrats rallying behind Mr. Hoyer, who has served in the leadership slot beneath Ms. Pelosi for four years".

[Sara (Squiggler)]

I was looking up a record to see just how many times Murtha has travelled to Iraq. 4 times is the answer, but nothing recently. From an article in USA Today in March 15, 2006, I discovered:

Some of the lawmakers who haven't visited war-torn Iraq include those who routinely deal with military, foreign affairs or intelligence issues. Aides to Democrats Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts and Robert Byrd of West Virginia — the only members of the Senate Armed Services Committee who haven't been to occupied Iraq — say the anti-war senators often meet with commanders, diplomats and soldiers here.

"You do not need to go to Iraq to know that we don't have a policy worthy of the sacrifice of our men and women in uniform," Kennedy spokeswoman Laura Capps says.

[sad]

Additionally, WAPO is pushing the Hoyer blows Pelosi angle.

[maryrose]

Pelosi continues to show her incompetence. Thank God Stenny is in there to balance her out. The dems are in for a long two years.

[Geek, Esq.]

We dodged a bullet on that one. Now we can move on to real stories.

Btw, personally I'd much rather be talking about how my party is electing Steny Hoyer majority leader and Nancy Pelosi Speaker than about how my party just elected Trent Lott as Minority Whip.

[Geek, Esq.]

Oops, missed a tag.

[JJ]

No one here, that I noticed in a quick skim, has mentioned how artfully Matthews questioned Murtha on "crap".

I dropped my tuner when Matthews did it. It ought to be studied for generations to come as a classic sanitizing question.

[Major John]

"The louder he spoke of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons."

Thanks for pointing that one out, Peter. I will have to use that.

[Cecil Turner]

Btw, personally I'd much rather be talking about how my party is electing Steny Hoyer majority leader and Nancy Pelosi Speaker than about how my party just elected Trent Lott as Minority Whip.

Who talks about Minority Whip? Besides, seems to me he was no weaker than Frist (and while neither was inspirational, both were better than the open obstructionism of Tom Daschle). Now it's Reid's turn, and we'll see how that works out.

[Daddy]

MATTHEWS: Are you going to win?

MURTHA: We're going to win, we've got the votes.

MATTHEWS: You've got them?

MURTHA: We've got the votes.

MATTHEWS: Eyeball to eyeball, you've got them?

MURTHA: Eyeball to eyeball.

I think what we just witnessed JOM'ers, was man about town Jackie Murtha, standing there at a Craps Table, a foot long stogie in his mouth, them cool ivory cubes a'rattlin in his cupped palm, cuff-linked Croupier's singing out "Place Your Bet's", and Lady Luck Pelosi just'a blowin' kisses at him from the far end of that long green felt infield. Jackie slugs a final hit of Scotch, huffs one last hot breath on the dice in his hands, then let's 'em roll, as he bellows out "C'mon Baby, Congress needs a new pair of shoes!"

"Snake Eye's", mono-tone's the head house Croupier. "Craps." With a cold finality the house cleans out all Murtha's chips.

"Craps", say's Jackie, "So eyeball to eyeball means Snake Eye's which means Craps. Now I get it. Crap, crap, crap, crap, crap...", he continues another 143 times. "Well," he say's consoling himself, "at least there's still that good lookin' dame who was blowin' kisses at me," but looking up all he spots is Lady Luck's empty martini glass with a gaudy lip stick stain and a fake eyelash floating in it.

"Where's the skirt?", ask's Jackie.

"Believe she left with Mister Reid and his good friend Abramoff", answers the Croupier. They're in the back room talking, 'Eyeball to Eyeball'."

"Crap", say's Jackie, another 143 times. "Crap crap crap crap crap..."

[clarice]

HEH!

[danking70]

Well done, Daddy-O.

[Bob]

Looks like the "blue dogs" are now calling the shots! Hoyer ain't no Murtha!

"After the first of four recent speeches by President Bush on Iraq, I stated that a precipitous withdrawal of American forces from that country could lead to disaster, spawning a civil war, fostering a haven for terrorists, and damaging our nation’s security and credibility. I still believe that we can – and we must – achieve success in Iraq. Of course, we have succeeded in the initially stated objective of removing the Hussein regime, and providing a context in which a democratically-elected government could be put in place. Its ability to sustain itself is our last objective."

Our Challenges in Iraq Remain Great, But We Can – and Must – Achieve Success">security and credibility. I still believe that we can – and we must – achieve success in Iraq. Of course, we have succeeded in the initially stated objective of removing the Hussein regime, and providing a context in which a democratically-elected government could be put in place. Its ability to sustain itself is our last objective."

Our Challenges in Iraq Remain Great, But We Can – and Must – Achieve Success

[Bob]

...sorry for the messed up quote

[Cecil Turner]

I'd gladly give up a GOP majority to get the Dems on-side in the war effort. Dunno if that's a possible outcome, but some of the signs are at least hopeful.

[maryrose]

Agreed. Dems have got to get on the bandwagon on this WOT. Any other course is foolishness. We've had enough of that already. This Libby case is the perfect example of wasting time and money on a case about nothing.

[Specter]

Too funny Daddy. LOL. ::grin:: (sorry Sue - had to steal it for that)

[Sue]

Mi ::grin:: es su ::grin::

[Sara (Squiggler)]

A BIG SARA UPDATE:

For those of you who mocked me and those of you with great suggestions that were helpful to me:

I sold my house, for cash, 2 week escrow.

I'll be moving on the 27th of November. I'm going to stay with my son thru Christmas and then I'm off to relocate to Florida to be nearer my daughter and only grandchild. Not too near though. Sara is about to start a whole new life and her last big adventure.

[anonymous]

Is this a great fucking country, or what?

[clarice]

Great news, Sara!

[boris]

Best of luck Sara.

[Terrye]

Hey Sara that is great. I was a realtor and I know what a nightmare selling a house can be. You are so lucky the guy has a cash and you don't have to go through the whole banker process.

[lurker]

Congrats, Sara.

[boris]

I'd gladly give up a GOP majority to get the Dems on-side in the war effort.

It would be a good trade. If the only way to set politics aside and work together is to let them have some control and take more credit then they deserve, I can live with it.

But they'll never have any trust or respect.

[anonymous]

Somehow I don't believe that Democrats will lose much sleep worrying about how to gain your "trust and respect."

[boris]

Can live with that too.

[maryrose]

Great news Sara! Won't you be sad to leave California? Now you will be on the same time schedule as we Easterners and Midwest people. Florida is beautiful and will be a great adventure!
Now is the time for Blue Dog dems to come to the aid of their country!

[anonymous]

Can live with that too.

Posted by: boris | November 16, 2006 at 03:11 PM

More's the pity.

[MayBee]

Sara, who says this is your last big adventure? Congratulations!

[maryrose]

Daddy- You are a laugh riot today!

[Sara (Squiggler)]

Maybee -- LOL. Well at my age every adventure might be the last.

I think I'll do a study of Florida Congressional districts working out from Orlando/Kissimmee where my daughter lives and pick the district I think would be the best fit. I'd like to be nearer either coast than inland nearer Orlando and yet close enough so that I can hop over for my granddaughter's performing arts events. She just started high school and is involved with one of the major repertory companies and also performs regularly at both Disney World and Universal Studios. I've regretted not being able to share more in her growing up years.

I told my daughter to start looking for reasonably priced 1 BR apts. and she cautioned me that I better think 2 BR so all the people I'd forgotten I knew will have a place to flop when they come to visit. LOL. I don't care what kind of place as long as they take one tiny little dog and one old cat and one ol' broad.

[hit and run]

I saw others posting "congrats Sara" and I just figured, another instalanche. Much better indeed. FL is lucky to have you. Congrats!

[JM Hanes]

"Mr. Murtha was vulgarly belittling her program in private meetings with lawmakers"

ROTL! Try saying that out loud, three times, fast. Shoot, just try saying it once.

[TCO]

Whether he was trading for investment in business that he was linked with indirectly or whether it was honestly for his district, his vote-selling is still corrupt.

[anonymous]

I'm "p-whipped", and that's why I take out my frustrations on Blogs!

Posted by: Dale in Atlanta at seixon.com | November 16, 2006 08:08 PM

[billy missle]

Good Evening..My name is Billy Missle.
I just happened here when I noticed a blogger named Anonymous posted a blog directed to me from Dale from ATL. Imagine my shock to see this line quoted totally out of context on another blog.
(personally..I'd sue but that's just me)
Dale and I were speaking about our daughters
and Anon posted the above message as some..I dunno..sicko message.( I don't think they like each other) You can now go to the seixton blog and read the entire exchange.http://www.seixon.com/blog/archives/2006/11/perpetuating_th_1.html#comments

Dale, Whom I don't know, said to me..

"Your son to Iraq; I just hope that he stays safe, and all his comrades as well!

I have some good friends currently over there, and some in Afghanistan as well!

I've tried to re-sign up, to go to either Iraq or Afghanistan; but I'm too old I guess, and the Corps has politely turned me down.

I'd rather go myself, than see my daughters go, that is for sure.

My oldest is just 15; not sure if she's inclined to the military or not; but if she is, I'll support her decision.

I never even told my 3 daughters I was in the military, at all, until about a year ago; my wife started it, and they were shocked to find out I had ever been in!

I think most of the shock was trying to figure out who that "skinny" guy in the Dress Whites was, because it didn't look like "daddy"!

Posted by: Dale in Atlanta at November 16, 2006 06:16 PM

And I teased him about living with 3 daughters and a wife in the house..And there..you have his reply..He is p-wipped..haha..
Anon..you messed up..Nothing could be worse than purposely slandering a guy you don't like..
I'm stunned..I will copy this post of yours and share your decietfulness(sic) with the world. You make me sick..