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January 12, 2007

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MayBee

Is someone in the prosecutors office leaking to Waas? Or is he just filling in the blanks creatively?

Anyway, it still baffles me why the Cheney/Libby pushback was so much more interesting to investigators than the State pushback was.

I thought Judith Miller denies having a personal friendship with Libby? I have to go look that up.

quest33

Yes, I agree that all the liberals and leftists, and Democrats (but I said that didn't I) are hoping that this case at the very least hurts Cheney somehow, and of course their great tormentor, Karl Rove.

No matter what happens, in their little minds they will think that they proved their case, that true evil walks the earth in the OVP, and that its major henchman is Karl Rove.

What a bitter pill that all they have gotten so far after so much effort is an indictment of a little pipsqueak, even "nice guy" by the name of Scooter Libby.

Still Scooter's conviction, execution and drawing and quartering will help ease their pain just a little, but I fear only whet their appetite more.

clarice

Yes..if he isn't making this up, someone inside Dion's office at DoJ or Fitz' office revealed gj testimony to him.

MayBee

So...leaking classified information from those investigating leaking classified information? Classic.

Sue

The trial starts Tuesday? Wow. And on another note, is Jeff Murray Waas? I could have sworn I was reading one of Jeff's posts when I read that article.

MayBee

I think I'm being slow, but I don't get the importance of this (Waas):
Prosecutors did not want to tip Miller as to why it was so crucial to them to learn whether Libby had ever mentioned the March 2002 Wilson debriefing report to her or Cooper shortly after he disembarked Air Force Two.

The reason was that Libby's failure to mention the March 2002 debriefing was one more piece of an ever increasing body of circumstantial evidence that led prosecutors to believe that Libby had devised a cover story to protect himself, and perhaps even the Vice President, to conceal the fact that his agenda was to leak information about Plame from the very start.

Sue

Waas ignores the elephant in the room. Armitage. The one person who managed to get into print what Cheney and Libby were working fast and furious to get out, according to Waas. And he isn't part of the story. Or the conspiracy. Just dumb luck?

MayBee

Sue-
Sometimes I wonder. Is Jeff Murray Waas? Or does Murray Waas just hang out at EW for a clue about what the Wilsonites want to hear more about (two phone calls in one day! one for mere seconds! fascinating!)? Then Jeff would be his inspiration.

This happened before with a Leopold story.

clarice

Yes, indeed, it's a sure sign of the nefarious plot that Cheney had Libby discuss the declassified NIE report not Ms Martin.
What a crock! Sounds like the kind of thinking found inside the FBI's CI operation under Szady who allowed and facilitated the five biggest most successful CI against this country ever,DUMB

clarice

**the five biggest most successful CI OPERATIONS against this country ever,DUMB***

Sue

two phone calls in one day! one for mere seconds! fascinating

I looked for that and the only place I found it was Murray Waas. Of course, the EW, firedoglake and Jeff's of the world ran with it and clogged the search up with their sites, so I could be missing something, but the only source I've seen that there was 2nd phone call on the 12th is from Waas.

MayBee

Waas ignores the elephant in the room. Armitage

Yeah. What I'm not sure about is if that is Waas ignoring the elephant in the room, or if it was the investigators ignoring that path. From this article, it seems the investigators were intent from the very beginning on finding Libby lying about Cheney's agenda- an agenda which seem not to be illegal. Or at least, if it was illegal, why was what State did not illegal?
It makes it seem it was much more an investigation about lying than an investigation about outing a CIA agent.

MayBee

I looked for that and the only place I found it was Murray Waas.

According to Waas, that came from evidence presented to the Grand Jury. If there isn't another source (Judy), that is disturbing in itself.

Sue

Waas ignoring the elephant in the room, or if it was the investigators ignoring that path

I choose both. Waas has to ignore it for his conspiracy to work and the investigators never cared. DoJ knew who leaked to Novak from the beginning. And State knew before the October surprise they are feeding us.

Sue

According to Waas, that came from evidence presented to the Grand Jury. If there isn't another source (Judy), that is disturbing in itself.

It didn't come from Judy, according to Jeff. She is conveniently forgetting to tell us about, again according to Jeff. I have asked him if he knows where it originated, other than Waas, but from reading the original article Waas wrote on the story, I suspect it is another one of those sources like the one we just read. Either true or not.

topsecretk9

The BBC interview is a gem...AFTER knowing Miller has Wilson's personal info in her notebook before she talked to Libby (interview courtesy Hamsher, natch, when Rove was a second away from being indicted - 12-02-05 (or was that business seconds?)):

BBC INTERVIEWER: Who was it who told you that Valerie Plame was a spy?

JUDY MILLER: I don't remember who supplied the name. I remember and I testified before a Grand Jury to who it was that told me that Valerie Plame worked at the agency in the WMD area and that individual was Lewis Libby.. Scooter Libby.

(Hamsher) She doesn't remember. Okay. We get it.

BBC INTERVIEWER: But if it was Karl Rove, for example, you'd remember.

JUDY MILLER: I'm not going to talk about who my other sources were or were not.

(Hamsher) B..but, I thought you couldn't remember, Judy?

She better get her story straight before Libby's attorney gets her on the stand -- which he most certainly will -- and grills her about other administration officials she "can't remember" -- which he most certainly will. I don't frankly think she's clever enough to keep it together under that kind of pressure.

Remember she said she might have sprung the name to TRICK Libby...to trick Libby into what? OH THAT MEANS SHE KNEW BEFORE!...and strangely, in the same interview she's adamant that the crafters of the intelligence - THANKS HUBRIS for telling us one of the crafters is Val - were responsible for the flaws. She's not backing down from this

...Although Ms Miller apologized for the intelligence being incorrect she defended her journalism saying she was right to publish and had done everything she could to verify the facts. She said: "I'm deeply sorry our intelligence community got it wrong.

"I am deeply sorry that the President was given a national intelligence estimate which concluded that Saddam Hussein had biological and chemical weapons and a active weapons programme."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/4486750.stm

Makes you wonder what CIA crafter source promised her these findings were a sure thing, doesn't it? I second Hamsher's wish for a grilling because Judy doesn't say whether or not her sources Admin officials, but no matter what ...she obviously didn't have waivers from these sources and since Fitz didn't really care about them - and convinced himself Libby was the first and then Woodward later popped up - I can't WAIT to find out who supplied the name and I bet Libby's attorneys can't either.

Sue

That was kind of jumbled. What I was trying to say is Waas reported the 2nd phone call the same way he reported the above article. Sources close to the investigation, etc.

topsecretk9

Sue

And on another note, is Jeff Murray Waas? I could have sworn I was reading one of Jeff's posts when I read that article.

Get OUT of my head!

Pete

Regardless of Armitage, the question still remains why did Libby lie his butt off? Libby is a lawyer, and knows quite well the consequences of not being truthful especially in a high profile case. He could easily have referred to his own notes in case he was confused or forgetful.

Sue

I can't WAIT to find out who supplied the name and I bet Libby's attorneys can't either.

I bet you we never find out. I also bet you Libby's lawyers never get to ask her that question. Or maybe I don't bet you that one, but I won't be surprised if the question is never raised.

MayBee

OK. Judy in the http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/09/AR2005110902555_2.html>WaPo:

Miller says she was hurt by Keller's suggestion that there was an "entanglement" between her and Libby.

"I had no personal, social or other relationship with him except as a source," she told the Times.
---
Waas:But Libby and Miller enjoyed a long professional relationship and also shared a personal friendship.
---

Hmmm.

Judy Miller on how long she'd known Libby:

I said I had known Mr. Libby indirectly through my work as a co-author of "Germs," a book on biological weapons published in September 2001.

----

Sue

He could easily have referred to his own notes in case he was confused or forgetful.

Didn't think it would ever get in front of a GJ. At least that is my guess.

MayBee

OK. Judy in the http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/09/AR2005110902555_2.html>WaPo:

Miller says she was hurt by Keller's suggestion that there was an "entanglement" between her and Libby.

"I had no personal, social or other relationship with him except as a source," she told the Times.
---
Waas:But Libby and Miller enjoyed a long professional relationship and also shared a personal friendship.
---

Hmmm.

Judy Miller on how long she'd known Libby:

I said I had known Mr. Libby indirectly through my work as a co-author of "Germs," a book on biological weapons published in September 2001.

----

MayBee

OK. Judy in the http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/09/AR2005110902555_2.html>WaPo:

Miller says she was hurt by Keller's suggestion that there was an "entanglement" between her and Libby.

"I had no personal, social or other relationship with him except as a source," she told the Times.
---
Waas:But Libby and Miller enjoyed a long professional relationship and also shared a personal friendship.
---

Hmmm.

Judy Miller on how long she'd known Libby:

I said I had known Mr. Libby indirectly through my work as a co-author of "Germs," a book on biological weapons published in September 2001.

----

cathyf

I found interesting the breezy characterization of Cheney as some sort of loose-cannon white house staffer who wasn't properly coordinating his activities with the other staffers. Talk about ignoring the elephant in the room -- the vice president is an elected official, and since March 2003 has had the power to declassify things upon his own authority.

If Waas is really a spokesman for the attitude of the investigators, sheesh, the sheer arrogance of these people. They really think that they are a 4th branch of government, and believe themselves the equals of the president and vp. Or their superiors -- it would certainly explain the audacity of lying to the supreme court.

topsecretk9

I bet you we never find out. I also bet you Libby's lawyers never get to ask her that question. Or maybe I don't bet you that one, but I won't be surprised if the question is never raised.

We may not find out WHO, but we WILL find there was a who.

Well we know they will get her to say she did know about Plame and most likely Plame was Wilson's wife. They'll ask how she got Wilson's contact info and did she contact him. And they will get her to say enough that she knew BEFORE she talked to Libby that Plame was important enough to the story to try and trick Libby. She'll have to explain why she knew "Plame" was important, important enough to trick him and why it was "supplied" to her.

Oh, I think they'll get to that. For they could argue that Libby misspoke and learned much from Judith Miller.

Do we know for sure Judy Miller wasn't at the same conference Kristof was when he had breakfast?

topsecretk9

I bet you we never find out. I also bet you Libby's lawyers never get to ask her that question. Or maybe I don't bet you that one, but I won't be surprised if the question is never raised.

We may not find out WHO, but we WILL find there was a who.

Well we know they will get her to say she did know about Plame and most likely Plame was Wilson's wife. They'll ask how she got Wilson's contact info and did she contact him. And they will get her to say enough that she knew BEFORE she talked to Libby that Plame was important enough to the story to try and trick Libby. She'll have to explain why she knew "Plame" was important, important enough to trick him and why it was "supplied" to her.

Oh, I think they'll get to that. For they could argue that Libby misspoke and learned much from Judith Miller.

Do we know for sure Judy Miller wasn't at the same conference Kristof was when he had breakfast?

topsecretk9

Is typepad hinky tonight?

topsecretk9

I am just curious, if this is leaked GJ material - of which Walton has been pretty harsh about this being tried in the media and defense attorney's siting Walton's April 06 ruling for no comment - did CREW receive any of this since Wilson has been subpoenaed?

MayBee

Sorry about the triple post, typepad went down and then...viola!

MayBee

Waas: Almost immediately after disembarking Air Force Two, once back in Washington, D.C., Libby made three telephone calls to two journalists: Matthew Cooper, then of Time magazine, and Judith Miller, then of The New York Times.

During both of those conversations, according to the federal grand jury testimony of both Cooper and Miller, Libby said absolutely nothing at all about the March 8, 2002 CIA debriefing report regarding Wilson.

Instead, both testified that Libby discussed the fact that Valerie Plame was a CIA officer, and that she had been responsible for sending her husband on his mission to Niger. The discussion between Libby and Cooper was the first that the then-vice presidential chief of staff and the Time correspondent spoke of Plame.
------
Cooper:
All morning I had been trying to reach I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby for a cover story about both President George W. Bush's claim that Iraq had sought uranium in Africa and former Ambassador Joseph Wilson's controversial Op-Ed....I I kept running from pool to parking lot to try to reach Libby, who was traveling ...Eventually I raced home without showering in order to take Libby's call. When he finally reached me at around 3 p.m.,

Cooper again:

On background, I asked Libby if he had heard anything about Wilson's wife sending her husband to Niger. Libby replied, "Yeah, I've heard that too," or words to that effect. Like Rove, Libby never used Valerie Plame's name or indicated that her status was covert, and he never told me that he had heard about Plame from other reporters
====
I just think it's interesting the way Waas spins the Cooper part, compared to Cooper's own testimony. He makes it sound like Libby called Cooper on his own initiative and started blabbing about Plame to Matthew Cooper for no reason at all. I would suspect Cooper bringing up "Wilson's wife" threw him off a bit.

topsecretk9

I just think it's interesting the way Waas spins the Cooper part, compared to Cooper's own testimony.

Well yeah, especially since Waas apparently ignores the inconvenient part about Cooper's credibility problems as per Walton.

MJW

For a bit more information on Miller's July 8, 2002 interview(s) with Libby, read Judith Miller's website.

From an Oct. 20, 2005 response to questions from Byron Calame:

During my grand jury testimony, there had been some confusion over whether redacted notes of an interview I had done with I. Lewis Libby and which I provided to the special prosecutor were taken on July 12 at my home in Sag Harbor or during a briefer discussion with Mr. Libby earlier in the week.
From an October 23, 2005 letter to Maureen Dowd:
Once again, I found the notebook, which was not covered by the subpoena, as I was searching for additional notes on where I was when I conducted my July 12th interview with Libby. As I told Calame, “Under oath, I had promised the special counsel I would search for any additional notes I might have relevant to Mr. Libby and Plame/Wilson that would clarify whether the notes had been taken in a taxi in D.C. or at my home in Sag Harbor.
I would say the Jeff/Waas interpretation is reasonable, but perhaps the actual explanation is more complicated. Miller's seeming lack of motive to misrepresent a conversation on the same day as "earlier in the week" makes me skeptical she's attempting to do so. And if we take her comment about "notes...taken in a taxi in D.C. or at my home in Sag Harbor" to refer to two separate July 8 interviews (instead of , for instance, one interview that may have take place in a cab or at home), her seeming lack of any attempt -- three days later -- to continue her misleading description, makes me more skeptical. It's puzzling.

MJW

Wass says:

By the end of those two additional conversations, Miller testified that she felt confident that she could write a story saying Plame was a former CIA officer and that Plame had played a role in her husband being selected to go to Niger.

However, he fails to mention that although Miller claims she pitched the story to Jill Abramson, an editor at the NYT, Abramson denies it. Which would, it seems to me make Abramson a potential rebuttal witness; and which, it also seems to me, makes Walton's subpoena decision incomprehensible:

This Court has greater difficultly concluding that documents responsive to request four are relevant. This request seeks documents “reflecting or referring to any request or recommendation by Judith Miller, prior to July 14, 2003 . . . to pursue a news story or investigation relating to former Ambassador Joseph Wilson’s trip to Niger or his claims concerning that trip.” N.Y. Times’ Mem., Ex. A. Although the defendant claims that documents responsive to this request could be used to attack Miller’s credibility because there appears to be a dispute as to whether such a request was actually made, Def.’s Opp’n at 23-24, Miller’s memory of these events is at best only tangentially related to her memory of her conversations with the defendant. The relevance of these documents, therefore, is suspect. In fact, the only possible way documents responsive to this request could be relevant is if the defendant, during his cross-examination of Miller, is permitted to inquire into whether she sought to pursue a story on Ambassador Wilson and his trip to Niger. However, unless something occurs during the trial which the Court cannot currently envision, it is virtually inconceivable that this line of inquiry will be permitted.
So Miller can claim she learned about Plame from Libby and wanted to write a story about it, but Libby's lawyers can't point out she never actually tried to write the story?

topsecretk9

OK,,,this just gave new life to the Wilson team leaking crap this entire time and actually give a window into who Wilson gets his info from...can you say Fitz was major payback? Notice the location AND timing of the investigation and think about where the lead FBI investigator in Plame came from...

Justice attorneys say they can't disclose all the contents of the December 2004 report by the department's inspector general without violating employees' privacy.

However, ex-Assistant U.S. Attorney Richard G. Convertino of Detroit said the Justice Department violated his own privacy rights by revealing to the media that he was the subject of an internal ethics inquiry after he criticized the Bush administration's counterterrorism strategy.

Two people who have seen the full report confirmed it rules out Convertino as a suspect in the leak case. Those people described the report's findings to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because it is sealed under a Justice Department protective order...

...For two years, Convertino led the government's case in the nation's first terrorism trial after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. He was removed in 2003 after the Justice Department concluded he withheld evidence that could have proved the innocence of the four defendants accused of being a Detroit terror cell.

Convictions of three of the four men were later overturned because of prosecutorial misconduct. The fourth was acquitted.

Four months after he was taken off the case, a January 2004 article in the Detroit Free Press cited anonymous Justice Department sources saying Convertino was under investigation for misconduct during the trial. The Justice leak violated Convertino's privacy rights, his attorneys said.

Convertino also maintains he was targeted because, shortly before he was removed from the case, he criticized the Bush administration during a Senate hearing on funding for terrorism prosecutions. The sealed report does not cite that congressional hearing or identify it as a motive for the leak, according to the people who have seen the report.

Yeah, I bet he claims that, Plame has made the default cry wold of career incompetence.

Personally I don't give a crap about the guy because he is a Nifong, withholding evidence - so cry me a river on being named a leaker...go tell it to Hatfill. Also, if the shoe fits...because look whose quoted in the last paragraph....

Like Convertino, Plame and Wilson are suing the Bush administration for the leak.

"Anything you want to do to people who go off the reservation is fair game," said Melanie Sloan, the lawyer for Plame and Wilson.



OH...HELLO CREW.

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/01/13/news/nation/14_48_361_12_07.txt

topsecretk9

lead FBI investigator in Plame came from...

correction that would be Philadelphia...meant chief letter wrter Conyer's connected to Sloane...

MJW

I notice Waas says: "Miller told the grand jury that she believed that telephone conversation took place after she had arrived at her home in Sag Harbor, N.Y., although she was not entirely sure."

Therefore, it seems like her taxi versus house comment to Dowd, wasn't meant to refer to two separate conversations. I doubt that the "earlier in the week" comment referred to the three minute July 8 call.

I wonder why the GJ cared so much whether Miller took the call in a cab or at home that Miller "promised the special counsel [she] would search for any additional notes [she] might have relevant to Mr. Libby and Plame/Wilson that would clarify whether the notes had been taken in a taxi in D.C. or at my home in Sag Harbor."

MJW

Another thing about Miller's taxi-versus-home comments. Doesn't Miller actually have to remember the interview to testify about it? She can't even recall where she was when she did the interview?

MJW

In the previous comments, I meant July 12, not July 8. Please mentally add 4 to the dates.

topsecretk9

Also, retired CIA outer Jim Marcowski "farm" bubby of Plame ran for Congress in Michigan. Seems to be where all the stench comes from - Conyers and Crew.

tom maguire

i am havng dramatic system challenges, but...

the two phone calls from libby to miller on the 12th were part of the story, as i recall it. probably judy's account in the times has it.

as to pete's query about why libby did not tetify more shrewdly - good question. hubris... i can't shift, but 'hubris' should be followed by a question mark. m anyway, five minutes reflection should have left libby with a better story.

per the msnbc site, andrea mitchell has been subpoenaed by the defense. not a surprise. my call - she has a story and is sticking to it.

MayBee

In the previous comments, I meant July 12, not July 8. Please mentally add 4 to the dates.

done.
I knew that's what you meant anyway.
But yeah, hard to imagine how much it mattered. Unless one happened after he'd talked to Cooper (who brought it up).

Patton

This continues to boogle the mind:

In fact, the first official to spill Plame's name to reporters was former Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage, who ironically was not considered a pro-war advocate. Armitage has not been charged with any crime, saying his disclosure was an inadvertent slip.

INADVERTENT slip to TWO of the most prominent reporters in Washington....
.come on.

This from the press that still believes Sandy Berger was simply SLOPPY in his handling of Top Secret documents.

MayBee

Is someone breaking Federal Law to give Waas information?
-federal investigators theorized
-federal investigators have theorized, was to protect Cheney or other superiors,
-What Miller herself did not know during her grand jury testimony was that a key issue for federal investigators
-Prosecutors did not want to tip Mille
that led prosecutors to believe that Libby had devised a cover story to protect himself,
-In private, some federal investigators have asserted
Investigators are still attempting to determine

Wass the novelist

-Cheney believed that
-The moment of triumph would prove to be illusory
-prosecutors were incredulous
-They also expressed skepticism
-They were also disbelieving
-Exasperated prosecutors indicate
-Fitzgerald then bore down on the witness
-a skeptical prosecutor indicated

MayBee

as to pete's query about why libby did not tetify more shrewdly - good question.

My guess goes hand in hand with Sue's. He knew he hadn't leaked to Novak, didn't take the investigation seriously, just said what he kinda remembered, and didn't think he had to worry about getting everything exactly right.

Patton

Interesting description of Woodward:

""Washington Post reporter who spoke to both Richard Armitage and Libby about Valerie Plame.""

REALLY??

clarice

Waas Nicht never lets us down.

cboldt

-- Yes..if he isn't making this up, someone inside Dion's office at DoJ or Fitz' office revealed gj testimony to him. --


Any particular line in Waas' story strike you as not being in the public? I thought the verbatim dialog (including all the "Yes, sir" responses) might have been (not public information), but that part of the GJ transcript -is- public information.


Not that I believe Waas (I've been looking for corroboration of ALL of his statements - I think everybody in the press is a liar), but his story covers some interesting bases.

Pete

My guess goes hand in hand with Sue's. He knew he hadn't leaked to Novak, didn't take the investigation seriously, just said what he kinda remembered, and didn't think he had to worry about getting everything exactly right.

That is simply unbelievable. If that is the case no jury would have a problem returning a guilty verdict.

Sue

the two phone calls from libby to miller on the 12th were part of the story, as i recall it. probably judy's account in the times has it.

If so I can't find it. It really isn't that important, at least not as far as I can tell. Jeff mentioned it to bolster an argument he was having on the other thread about the Feb. 12th/13th date controversy. It was the first time I had heard about a 2nd call on the 12th and I have been unable to locate mention of it except where it leads back to Waas as the source. Maybe Jeff will clear it up when he shows back up. Or someone else who knows where it originated.

Sue

If that is the case no jury would have a problem returning a guilty verdict.

Well, Pete, hold on to your britches because I suspect they are going to. I only hope Wilson has to tell his story under oath so that he finds himself in the same position as Libby.

kate

I'm surprised that people are surprised that the prosecution team is leaking to Waas. That has happened all along. Unless, we believe the media characterization of Fitz as Mr. Intergrity, smartest man in the room, tight lipped.

Someone on his team, not Fitz, has been leaking to Waas all along. Funny, how Mr. anti-Leak never seemed that concerned about pursuing the leaker on his own team.

cboldt

-- I am glumly resigned to a trial that leaves everyone scratching their heads and going home unhappy. --


I suspected so, long ago. The trial is about false statements, and those false statements that relate more to Libby's "forgetfulness" vis-a-vis official sources, rather than to issues that swirl in the reporter and spook communities. None of the curiosity regarding the intriguing backstory aspects -- including whether or not "Wilson's wife works at the CIA" represents classified information -- will be satisfied by this trial.


The good news is that, remaining unsettled, those more interesting backstory issues (augmented with trial testimony) can fuel heated debate and further speculation in the months ahead.

Sue

Aboard Air Force Two, Cheney, Libby, and Martin discussed a then-still highly classified CIA document that they believed had information in it that would undercut Wilson's credibility. The document was a March 8, 2002 debriefing of Wilson by the CIA's Directorate of Operations after his trip to Niger. The report did not name Wilson or even describe him as a former U.S. ambassador who had served time in the region, but rather as a "contact with excellent access who does not have an established reporting record." The report made no mention of the fact that his wife was Valerie Plame, or that she may have played a role in having her husband sent to Niger.

If Cheney-Libby-Martin thought this report had information in it that would discredit Wilson, and the report did not mention Wilson or Plame, how does Waas get from A to B? Or in other words, if they wanted to get the information out in that document that didn't contain anything about Plame how does that get us to Plame?

kate

I'm also finding the "discredit Wilson" phrasing tedious. Wilson is an acknowledged liar, since when is it malevolant for any Administration to counter a dissembler.

Once again, the administration has allowed the left and its friends in the media to control the narrative on this story.

Imagine if the situation were reversed and Wilson was a conservative of neocon lying about a Democratic administration.

Sue

I can't figure out why Libby would have felt the need to tell Miller about Plame on the 12th if Rove had already told Libby that Novak was reporting it. Do I have my dates confused again? When did the conversation between Rove and Libby take place?

clarice

Remember that DoJ's Dion headed both the Berger and Libby investigations. And in the former it appears he was remarkably incurious and in the latter extraordinarily inventive if Waas' tale is to be belived--imagine asking a smart lawyer like Libby to handle the NIE discussions, not the pr flak Martin or discussing the substance of a report which never mentioned Wilson or Plame.Worse yet, imagine determining to continue after Armitage and in fact keeping the Armitage disclosure from the President.

What a clown.

pollyusa

if he isn't making this up, someone inside Dion's office at DoJ or Fitz' office revealed gj testimony to him

All of the actual testimony quoted in Waas's 1/12/07 article is from the 5/24/06 filing Exhibits.

Here is a quasi HTML version of the Libby tesimony found in the Exhibits from the 5/24/06 filing

clarice

Thank you polly.

Rick Ballard

So when Jefwaas scribbles: "Additional accounts of what occurred in the grand jury were provided by sources with first-hand knowledge of the testimony." it's just puffery then?

That's very understandable. Faux journalists need to create the illusion of 'inside sources' in order to maintain the trust of the gullible. Perhaps Pincus was his instructor?

Sue

So when Waas says this:

Additional accounts of what occurred in the grand jury were provided by sources with first-hand knowledge of the testimony.

He is just blowing smoke? I'll buy that.

pollyusa

There is another mention of the Libby/Miller phone calls on July 12, 2003 in the public record.

Fitzgerald refers to a 3 minute phone conversation in his August 27, 2004 affidavit. I wonder if Fitzgerald knew at that time that there was another call between Libby and Miller that day.

The grand jury needs to know when Libby advised Miller about Wilson's wife--during their private meeting outside the White House on July 8 or during the three minute telephone call on July 12--and whether Libby qualified his disclosure to Miller by stating that he had heard it only from a reporter and did not know if it were true August 27, 2004 Affidavit

EW noted the singular mention of a phone call in an entry on the affidavit when it was declassified last Febuary.

clarice

Have we figured out yet who the person on the prosecution witness list is the person the defense intends to call as its own witness?

Sue

Thanks again Polly.

cboldt

-- EW noted the singular mention of a phone call in an entry on the affidavit when it was declassified last Febuary --


There is more than one mention, and one might infer two telephone calls between Miller and Libby on July 12 considering ONLY the differences in information disclosed between those two mentions -- comparing paragraphs 22 and 81 of Fitzgerald's Aug 27, 2004 affidavit.


I cannot find a public source that corroborates Wass's "37 minute duration" claim.

tom maguire

my keybord is losing more letters, but;

on murry w--s; he tells us tht libby expected to hide behind reporters, nd tht libby might hve invented the bit bout disclosing the wilson report of the niger trip.

but libby did not testify, flsely or otherwise, bout leking tht report to miller or cooper.

why not, if he expected his secret to be sfe

second, w--s concludes with libby's exhorttion to the inveswtigtors to go sk cheney. which they did.

yet cheney is not prosecution witness. mybve he hd some good nswers.

clarice

Vewy g--d,TM

Sue

It doesn't strike me as all that odd that Cheney would go back to the Wilson article after reading the Novak column with notations. Especially if Cheney did not know she was an 'operative' but merely thought she worked there.

tom maguire

in the fwiw deprtment, cboldt hs been crrying the flg nicely over by the emptywheel; imgine my mortific-tion seeing him received better there then jeff is here.

of course, there is tht mysterious cboldt chrm to consider, but i hve lwys been jeff fn myself.

wow, the missing letter preceds 'b'. enough, lredy.

ee cummings,

cboldt

-- When did the conversation between Rove and Libby take place? --

  • July 10 or 11 Presidential Advisor Karl Rove (Per April 5 - Doc 80, government has no plan to call Rove)
    • Indictment: Libby RECEIVED from Rove that Rove had a conversation earlier that week with columnist Robert Novak in which Wilson's wife was discussed as a CIA employee involved in Wilson's trip. Libby was advised by Rove that Novak would be writing a story about Wilson's wife.
    • Libby: No need to rebut - Rove is not a witness
    • The Court has constricted Libby's classified information testimony on this date.
      • (paraphrase) July 11 isn't important date because it is cumulative of other occasions when Libby is alleged to have obtained information concerning Valerie Plame (CIPA 6(c) Opinion, Doc 224, Issue "A", FN9 p.19, p.20)
Sue

imgine my mortific-tion seeing him received better there then jeff is here.

And of course Jeff is always the gentleman here. No reason for anyone to take issue with him. Nope. None at all. I will have to learn to take being talked to like an idiot better, I suppose, in order to ensure you aren't mortified next door.

pollyusa

Additional accounts of what occurred in the grand jury were provided by sources with first-hand knowledge of the testimony." it's just puffery then?

Waas does include information about the JG testimony of others.

Some examples

On the plane ride back to Washington from Norfolk on July 12, Cheney strategized once again with Libby and Martin as to how to discredit Wilson's allegations, according to people familiar with the federal grand jury testimony of both Libby and Martin

[...]

But the same official confirmed in an interview what has also been said in federal grand jury testimony and public court filings
Waas 1/12/07

Rick Ballard

Ah, I see. Some puffery and some anonymous sourcing. Is there some sort of decipherable code to distinguish the two? He did seque directly from "Additional accounts of what occurred in the grand jury were provided by sources with first-hand knowledge of the testimony." into the published accounts so there must be a "hidden clue" as to the transisition from ambiguity to outright distortion.

Not that I'm extraordinarily interested in nailing jello to the wall, mind you.

pollyusa

libby might have invented the bit about disclosing the Wilson report of the niger trip

Waas says Libby "said absolutely nothing at all" about the Wilson debriefing report.

During both of those conversations, according to the federal grand jury testimony of both Cooper and Miller, Libby said absolutely nothing at all about the March 8, 2002 CIA debriefing report regarding Wilson.
Waas 1/12/07

According to Miller's account, Libby did talk about the "Wilson report" during the Libby conversation on 7/12/03.

My notes of this phone call show that Mr. Libby quickly turned to criticizing Mr. Wilson's report on his mission to Niger. He said it was unclear whether Mr. Wilson had spoken with any Niger officials who had dealt with Iraq's trade representatives.
Miller NYT 10/16/05
Semanticleo

"Members of both camps are seeking vindication from Mr. Libby's impending courtroom battle, but whether they will get it is another question. The former White House official is charged with lying and obstruction of justice, not leaking, so the trial may be so circumscribed that both cheering sections are left with an unsatisfying result. What's already clear at this juncture is that both storylines suffer from serious flaws."

Interesting words from Clarice's nemesis.

One good piece of news for our President; He hasn't far to fall in public opinion, so a pardon won't hurt him much.

Rick Ballard

How was the June 10, 2003 INR memo disposed of in order to make the 2002 debriefing report (which doesn't seem to have mentioned Amb. Munchausen or his daring sidekick) seem so extraordinarily important?

The INR memo hung Munchausen's gig in Niamey directly around Miz Spook's neck. In terms of timing and importance, how does the March 2002 anonymous report supercede the INR memo in importance? The "report" seems to have become the "Wilson report" on the basis of the INR memo.

JJ

Haven't been able to follow all the comments due to time. But a quick thanks to Maybee for bringing up Waas' novelistic style.

One of the things that truly bugs me. Wass fills in the blanks novelistic style -- which always leaves you wondering how he knew that.

Of course, you can follow trails. However, as a journalist, you (all journalists) have some responsibility to name your sources...because it's non-fiction!

His articles are similar to old Landmark readers I liked as a kid: "George Washington pulled on the reins of his horse that he loved so well. He'd fed him extra oats that morning..." Do what? You there? Woodward does this also, to some extent.

Sad to see TM losing his letters. Happens to all the old folks!

cboldt

-- According to Miller's account, Libby did talk about the "Wilson report" during the Libby conversation on 7/12/03. --

And her testimony seems to indicate that she and Libby covered that ground (and similar ground) thoroughly on July 8th.

... As I told Mr. Fitzgerald and the grand jury, Mr. Libby alluded to the existence of two intelligence reports about Iraq's uranium procurement efforts. One report dated from February 2002. The other indicated that Iraq was seeking a broad trade relationship with Niger in 1999 ...

... Mr. Libby told me that the resulting cable - based on Mr. Wilson's fact-finding mission, as it turned out - barely made it out of the bowels of the C.I.A.

Wass appears to be arranging already known information into a narrative that aims to lead the reader to the unequivocal conclusion that the disclosure "Wilson's wife works at the CIA" was specifically ordered by Cheney.

Typical punditry.

Piveb

Violating Plame's employee privacy? Like all CIA operations officers she sees a psychiatrist. She had some problems. Those might be seen in her behavior regarding her intentional leaking of her identity to high government leaders. Her intent was to use them as a leak and excuse for a criminal conspiracy, which is what happened in Iraq when she admitted she was a CIA operations officer, paramilitarily trained. Scooter and Rove were just advisors and this is as far as she could get. Her intent was obvious from the beginning. As she moved toward retirement she had more psychological problems. This is common for CIA operations officers just before they retire. They do this to get medals and benefits.

She hired her husband as a CIA operations officer for CIA contract money. This is probably not legal.

"contact with excellent access who does not have an established reporting record." These are almost Plame's exact words when she describes her husband and why he should get the contract to go to Niger. Powell was her first victim of a memo. After this, they went after all the US goverment leaders in the administration.

Jim Marcowski and Larry Johnson both acknowledged Plame back to the farm. This confirmation was invaluable. It showed that actions taken by terrorists were 'correct and smart.'

Con Yers was the victim of a British joke about Bush's war record thing. That's all he was used for, his name.

Patrick R. Sullivan

'My notes of this phone call show that Mr. Libby quickly turned to criticizing Mr. Wilson's report on his mission to Niger.'

That's a reference to Wilson's July '03 NY Times Op-ed, not his debriefing in March '02.

windansea

ee cummings

looks like you took a BTW spelling course

imgine my mortific-tion seeing him received better there then jeff is here

Cboldt has charm and style, Jeff is often petulant and insulting


windansea

What? no press pass for TM?

It's something of a first for bloggers to be credentialed for a high profile trial like this. In addition to the two passes granted to the Media Bloggers Association to distribute through its members, Justin Rood (of TPM), Marcy Wheeler (of Next Hurrah/DKos) and myself (on behalf of Huffington Post and FDL) have been granted passes. Most of the passes are for the overflow room where the trial will be broadcast by closed circuit and WiFi will be available for live blogging; my pass (which I'll be sharing with Christy and others) will be for Courtroom 16 itself. To say I am excited to see Patrick Fitzgerald sweating Dick Cheney on the witness stand would be something of an understatement.

Jane Hamsher and friends

RichatUF

cbolt says

The good news is that, remaining unsettled, those more interesting backstory issues (augmented with trial testimony) can fuel heated debate and further speculation in the months ahead.
Excellent, I’ll be able to get my Plame fix til about Jan 20 2009. I knew there was some upside

RichatUF

RichatUF

from kate
when is it malevolant for any Administration to counter a dissembler

When that dissembler is Joe Bond Wilson and his super secret agent wife. The two of them could stop proliferation with a single mint tea sippin'trip

It also helps when the Administration is honeycombed with those beedy eyed neocons-the source of all malevolence in the world

RichatUF

pollyusa

That's a reference to Wilson's July '03 NY Times Op-ed, not his debriefing in March '02.

I think you are right

RichatUF

clarice

Remember that DoJ's Dion headed both the Berger and Libby investigations...

Who headed the Franklin-AIPAC investigation, was it the same office?

RichatUF

Florence Schmieg

Samanticleo: Thanks for Bush bash. Wouldn't be a good day without one. You lefties are just so tiresomely repetitive and predictable.

clarice

Richard, I believe it was..also the Weng Ho Lee case, probably the Hatfill case and assorted never prosecuted leak cases.

clarice

Fitz has filed a new pleading asking that he be given until March 2 to complete the declassification of the pleadings.
March 2?
Anyone have any idea what this means?

RichatUF

Piveb says

Jim Marcowski and Larry Johnson both acknowledged Plame back to the farm. This confirmation was invaluable. It showed that actions taken by terrorists were 'correct and smart.'

wha? I must not be as fluent in conspiracy as I thought

RichatUF

Les Nessman

""It's something of a first for bloggers to be credentialed for a high profile trial like this. In addition to the two passes granted to the Media Bloggers Association to distribute through its members, Justin Rood (of TPM), Marcy Wheeler (of Next Hurrah/DKos) and myself (on behalf of Huffington Post and FDL) have been granted passes.""

So, only Lefty bloggers are going to be recognized by the courts?

What is the MBA? Why do they get special treatment? Did we get to vote on this? If so, we must have lost.

clarice

OT but not utterly unrelated to this case or the Duke case.

Lawyers for a defendant in a court martial have charged that Naval Criminal Investigative Service (NCIS) altered the statements of the soldier's fellow marines and the trial has been halted for an investigation of the charge.

[quote]

CAMP PENDLETON ---- A hearing for a Marine officer accused of assaulting an Iraqi was halted Friday after a defense attorney alleged that Naval Criminal Investigative Service agents fabricated portions of statements that led to the charges against the lieutenant.

Attorney David Sheldon made the assertion in a Camp Pendleton courtroom on the second day of an Article 32 hearing for 2nd Lt. Nathan Phan. The Sacramento-area native is charged with assaulting three Iraqis and filing a false report in an incident that took place on April 10 in Hamdania, Iraq.

Sheldon's allegation prompted the hearing officer, Lt. Col William Pigott, to order a halt to the proceedings until the three government agents could be brought to court to testify.

"I want to hear from these agents," Pigott said, ordering a recess in the hearing until an as-yet-to-be determined date when all the parties can be present in the courtroom.

The development came during the midpoint of testimony from Lance Cpl. Christopher Faulkner, a member of the platoon that the 26-year-old Phan commanded in Iraq last year.

Faulkner testified that a statement the Marine Corps' Navy law enforcement agency attributed to him contained falsehoods. The key inaccuracy, he said, was including language that said he saw Phan placing an unloaded pistol into the mouth of one of the alleged victims. In fact, Faulkner testified, he never saw that occur and never told agents that it had.

Phan's defense team also introduced a signed affidavit from Faulkner stating that he merely saw Phan in a room with a detainee and that the lieutenant was leaning against a wall as the men were being questioned.

During a break in the hearing, Sheldon approached Pigott and said he had reason to believe the government agents were lying. [/quote]

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/01/13/news/top_stories/21_40_141_12_07.txt

This is certainly an interesting development.

There has been so much leaking against the defendants in these military trials which seems to have originated out of the NCIS, I certainly welcome a closer look at their operations.

RichatUF

clarice;

Thanks...I think I brought it up once before(and laughed at)and would have to get firmer grasp of all the time lines. If the investigators were going after Libby and the Technicolor Leak and Franklin at the same time maybe OVP was worried that the investigation was headed towards something where Cheney would be accused of leaking Plame (the super secret wife who gave an expansive bio to Vanity Fair including her academic record) to Israel. Conspiracy heavy yes. Blood for the moonbats yes. It just seems that Justice, CIA, and State all looked at OVP as the enemy but each was working at cross purposes to one another. I suppose it doesn't help Libby all that much-"I was dissembling to prevent a more ridiclious investigation"-but might explain motivation

Interesting-that office handled Hatfield as well-

Libby-Franklin/AIPAC-Berger*

Did you read the committee investigation report about the Berger leak-Dion sure has a bad memory?

RichatUF

clarice

I certainly did read it..with interest.Seems to me that that office, like most of DoJ was yanking Ashcroft around by the nose night and day.

RichatUF

Hatfield ...spelling...HatFILL...

To go OT...Would Dion's testimony be under oath? I found it interesting that some of the report said it was over the telephone

Some of it seemed was so insolent that it could be seen as contempt-good thing that we are in the 100 hours to utopia

RichatUF

Sara (Squiggler)

Clarice -- how do we get you one of those court passes? Why are only moonbat BDSers getting passes?

clarice

I have no reason to think it was under oath. It sounded as if he regarded the questions unworthy of such a person of demonstrated probity as himself.

OTOH his pal Szady was finally exposed when he stupidly gave an exit interview to Bill Gertz.
Yes, I also think Szady the dumbbell played a role in the same series of cases.Szady seems to think it is Israel and its backers, not China, Russia or Iran and Iraq which are the major threats to the US.
At the moment I believe he;s working for Ross Perot..

clarice

Sara.I do not plan to sit thru all of it. But I have written the clerk of court to find out what they require for media credentials, noting I've written extensively on this case for the American Thinker and for the Weekly Standard and informing him my editor wishes to comply with the court rules for my admission to the Media Room. (I prefer that because it's wifi and you can leave when you want.)

RichatUF

clarice says...

Yes, I also think Szady the dumbbell played a role in the same series of cases.Szady seems to think it is Israel and its backers, not China, Russia or Iran and Iraq which are the major threats to the US.
Wonder if Szady was the source for that breathless Rolling Stone article a while back about the Franklin case. Gertz article (scratching head) it looks like I have more homework to do. Szady...where is that name from...Italy, Poland...

And best of luck getting a media pass, I enjoy your writing.

RichatUF

clarice

Thanks Richard--Bill Gertz has written a book, "Enemies" about our crappy CI activities in which Szady plays the starring jackass role.
Here's a tidbit I wrote on it.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2006/12/naked_to_our_enemies.html

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