Nifong Out - Loose The Hounds!

To the strains of "Gonna Walk (Before They Make Me Run), Durham DA Mike Nifong has recused himself and asked for the appointment of a special prosecutor in the Duke lacrosse case.

The special prosecutor will either drop the case or bring it to trial under a special contract with "Saturday Night Live" - lots of us were eager to hear the accuser regale us with her various versions of the night's activities.

And the families of the indicted lacrosse players will not, oddly, pursue Nifong unto the seventh generation - Ms. Evans, mother of indicted David Evans, will conclude her vengeance upon his death.  I applaud her generous disposition.

From Ms. Evans:

When asked what they would say to Nifong if he were in the room, Rae Evans, the mother of indicted player David Evans, says, "I would say with a smile on my face, 'Mr. Nifong, you've picked on the wrong families … and you will pay every day for the rest of your life.'"

WATER OVER THE DAM NOW:  The NY Times had a front page (below the fold) story about the latest defense filing highlighting the changes in the accuser's story that led Nifong to drop the rape charges.  Duff Wilson caught this detail, which even the mighty KC Johnson apparently overlooked (emphasis added):

In the newest statement, the woman said she arrived at the house about 11:10 p.m., joining the other stripper and dancing briefly before they stopped when a man threatened them with a broomstick. She said that the two women retreated to a car, received apologies from three men, were enticed back inside and separated and that she was sexually assaulted starting about 11:40 p.m.

Defense lawyers have released time-stamped photos of the women dancing between midnight and 12:04 a.m. The prosecutor has questioned the stamps’ authenticity.

The neighbor, Jason Bissey, gave the police a statement that he saw the accuser talking calmly with the second dancer in the yard outside the house shortly before midnight and then going inside, apparently for the first time. That version is consistent with the time-stamped photos.

“I’m absolutely certain,” Mr. Bissey said in a telephone interview Thursday. “I had looked at my cellphone, and I was sure they had gone into the house at 12. I had assumed that’s when they first got there. But I can’t say for sure that was the first time they showed up. It seemed to me that it was.”

The defense motion said the woman’s cellphone records contradicted her version because she was speaking with someone at the time she now says the attack started. She was on the phone from 11:25 p.m. to 11:32 and 11:36 to 11:39.

The latest account leaves a gap of more than 50 minutes. The second dancer called 911 at 12:53 and reported that racial slurs had been shouted at them. She later told the police that she had made the call as they were driving from the party.

Let me just toss out a theory to account for the fifty minutes - the team and the dancers cracked a few frosties and watched Sports Center to pass the time.  Just thinking out loud here - I assume Nifong would have covered that point.

MORE:  Detailed coverage of the Nifong climbdown by Duff Wilson and David Barstow of the Times.

Comments

[quest33]

Mr Nifong, payback is a bitch!

[Daddy]

Welcome to the rest of your life Mr Nifong.

[steve sturm]

50 unaccounted for minutes? Not even Rose Mary Woods was able to pull that off.

[Forbes]

Well, at least Nifong has stepped down. I'd say that marks the beginning of the end, of a long nightmare for those three men.

[windansea]

from the Times article:

Mr. Nifong prided himself on integrity, having been a conscientious objector during the Vietnam War, yet the laboratory director’s testimony and his acknowledgment of the error undercut his reputation.

figues...

[windansea]

figures...

[Gary Maxwell]

To get CO status was pretty rare. It took more than just stated religious views, seems to me that the Quakers might have gotten the nod but if you were a garden variety Protestant, that was a buzzer with a "thanks for playing" message. HMMMM now I am more curious about this guy.

[sylvia]

This is not an IQ test, it's an assault case. So people who get the time wrong can't be assaulted? The assuser was known to give an earlier, probably off, time from the beginning. Now we see what time she claimed. But the sequence of the events she reported remain the same from her first formal police interview to now.

So everyone, look at your watch more often and make sure you have the correct times in your head at all time. Because one day, YOU might be unexpectedly assaulted some day, and if you guessed at the time later and you were wrong on the time - your case will be dropped and your claim will be villified and jeered at by the public.

New rule - only time tellers can be sexually assaulted.

[Gary Maxwell]

It apparently not an IQ test to sign in here and post either.

[Bob]

My God sylvia you really have a problem. Yes bad things happen like this all the time, but this has turned out to be a hoax from the start. You loose no respect for being duped with many others, but to continue your inane belief with such little evidence is purely irrational.

If there ever were a rape as you seem to believe, then you should be angry at Nifong for really "screwing" this whore, instead of trying to speculate about what may have happened.

The fact that 3 innocent young men were dragged through this unnecessary makes me believe you need serious help.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Sylvia, the problem is that it's apparantly not an assault case either: no one can find any evidence that an assault took place except for the girl's testimony, and that is actually contradicted by other physical evidence.

What it is, is a perjury and false-reporting case.

[windansea]

Sylvia, like Wendy Murphy, never met a rape accusation she didn't like

[sylvia]

The fact that 3 innocent young men were dragged through this

Yes it's a FACT. You have no frickin clue what happened in that house while the accuser was in there alone, but you know for a FACT nothing happened.Who needs trials nowadays right? Just read defense blogs, that'a all we need to know.

[abe shorey]

Ms Evans quote foreshadows the hell Nifong has ahead. He assaulted their boys, now they will destroy him.

[sylvia]

and that is actually contradicted by other physical evidence.

Hmmmm. Yes it's contradicted by the physical evidence, as are 80% of rape convictions that also have no physical evidence. Maybe you all should go back and try to get all those thousands of assault convictions without physical evidence reversed!

[sylvia]

I can't believe how clueless people are. The ONE thing the defense put out for us - we now know was a LIE. The defense put out the statement that the two women were in the bathroom together alone until they left together. If you read the police statements, you will see that Kim Roberts went out to the car first by herself to change. That means the accuser was alone in the house during that time. The defense alibi crumbles.

The only proven liars in this case so far is the defense. And these are not drugged out emotional interviews given late at night. These are sober highly paid professionals spewing this out. Why are you so willing to believe the spin that comes out of that camp knowing this? It's because it's what you WANT to believe.

I give up. The people are too stupid.

[abe shorey]

Sylvia, fair point re "fact." However, are you at all familiar with the particulars of the case? There's no evidence against the boys. The DA's case is an unfounded accusation from a whore, who was under the influence. She has changed her story repeatedly when her claims have been slapped down by facts. No rational person, aware of the facts, can support further abuse of the accused. For perspective, if someone were to accuse you of molesting border collies how would you establish, as fact, that it was untrue? It's very difficult to prove a negative. Accept that, and leave Fido alone!!!!

[clarice]

The Sylvia Rule of Evidence--a drugged out whacko with a prior history of false rape accusations must be given more credence that dozens of sober, respectable people especially when there is no forensic evidence to back up her word, and a great deal to discredit it.

[abe shorey]

She claimed Evans had a stache, and picked out Reade, who has an outstanding albi. The case is her accusation, and her accusation sucks ass. Get a grip, and get of the dog!!!

[sylvia]

"She has changed her story repeatedly"

This is a myth I hear over and over. She changed her story the first night when she was interviewed at Krogers at 2:00 AM by a cop. She was posssibly scared, drugged, and emotional that night. We don't know how well the cop recorded her words or understood what she was saying. (You ever try to tell some problem or story to some civil servant and you say "A happened than B then C." And the civil servant says "Uh? You mean A then G then X then Y happened?" And you have to keep explaining until that person gets it? Well maybe that cop wasn't the brightest bulb either)

After that first night, there have been no significant changes to her story in terms of sequence of events. This is not "repeatedly". Some changes to her story could be explained by further memory of the events. Tell me that you all can remember an incident perfectly after it happens and tell the story the same way every time after that, especially if it was a traumatic event.

The defense has been successful in making hay over any little change she made and convincing gullible people all over the country that she is "constantly changing her story". But if you actually examine the FACTS, and use your brain, it's not so black and white.

[sylvia]

The Clarice defense - cute upper class white boys could never do anything wrong! Drop the case now!

[Mark F.]

Sylvia, get a clue. You keep bringing up figures about a large percentage of rape cases that do not involve DNA evidence. You keep ignoring the truth here. Even if the rapist does not ejaculate in his victim, it is highly probable that he leaves behind DNA evidence in the form of epithelial (skin) cells and hairs. The reason DNA evidence doesn't figure in more cases is that there is either far too long a time taken by the victim before she reports the rape, which is understandable, or she, reacting to the violation seeks to instinctively clean herself with a bath or shower and a douche. So, either the evidence decays and is expelled naturally, or the victim inadvertently removes it herself. In the Duke case, the accuser was examined before any decay or natural expulsion could take place and before any cleansing was attempted. Furthermore, part of that nebulous figure you like to quote comes from the cases where there is no question about sex between two people taking place, merely the consensual nature of it. If a man admits that he had sex with the woman filing the complaint, there is no need to check DNA because he has already confirmed that he has had sex. DNA is totally unnecessary in determining whether or not sex was consensual. Give it a break. The more fuss raised by die-hards like you, the harder it will be to prosecute the real rapists. Take some anxiety medication and forget about this case.

[TomB]

Yes it's contradicted by the physical evidence, as are 80% of rape convictions that also have no physical evidence.

But there IS physical evidence in this case sylvia. The semen of FIVE other men, none of whom are Duke lax players.

You convienly ignore that.

In addition, it isn't her word against theirs, it is her word against the other stripper, Bissey, and all the other lax players at the party.

Why would they all lie?

[clarice]

No, Sylvia..I believe that the accused are entitled to the same rules of evidence and rights as the accused will be when she surely is tried for perjury and making false statements. Even though they are white men and she is a black woman. Even though they are students and she's a whore.

[TomB]

And sylvia, I asked you this on another thread, and you ducked the question. What evidence it there that the incident took place?

Please give us a list...

[sylvia]

"Even if the rapist does not ejaculate in his victim, it is highly probable that he leaves behind DNA evidence in the form of epithelial (skin) cells and hairs"

I think you have been watching too much CSI. There is no reliable pattern of skin cells or hair being able to be extracted in most assaults. That is another myth. Hair and skin cells can flake off or be wiped away. The investigators cannot just pick them up like a fruit basket. Any cells that may remain may be too scattered or too few to pick up. Evidence happens in SOME cases when the investigators are lucky. As we have seen, it's about 20% of cases. The defense has been successful in propagating another myth.

[sylvia]

Tom, I wrote it on the other thread.

[TomB]

Tom, I wrote it on the other thread.

I know, that's how you ducked the question before.

[sylvia]

Clarice you reference to the accuser as a "whore" is all I need to know.

[TomB]

Evidence happens in SOME cases when the investigators are lucky. As we have seen, it's about 20% of cases.

And this is one of that 20%.

So they magically collected the "older" DNA and missed the fresher stuff.

Your story is getting weaker and weaker.

[sylvia]

Tom, it's hard to collect DNA from an object. And if she had so much sex with other guys, chances are she had oral sex with them as well. So where are the collections of dNA from other guys from oral swabs? If those didn't survive, chances are the oral DNA from the Duke player wouldn't survive.

[sylvia]

I just had a thought about skin cell DNA. If you're a women you put on lipstick or makeup. Lipstick or makeup only lasts for so long - every few hours you have to "reapply". Why? Because your skin cells constantly shed. If lipstick, which is scientifically formulated by experts to stay on as long as possible, slathered on, doesn't survice over several hours - why should skin cells?

[TomB]

Tom, it's hard to collect DNA from an object.

Not from her. She was a veritable cornucopia of DNA evidence. Just not from the guys you want.

And if she had so much sex with other guys, chances are she had oral sex with them as well.

But she is NOT a whore.

So where are the collections of dNA from other guys from oral swabs?

What "other guys"? All the lax players gave DNA samples.

If those didn't survive, chances are the oral DNA from the Duke player wouldn't survive.

Huh? You make absolutely no sense here.

Why did the investigators recover the dna of FIVE other men from before the incident, but none from the players?

[sylvia]

I'm talking about orally Tom. There was no DNA recovered orally from any of the other guys she was supposed to have slept with the week before. Why is that? I thought DNA would last so long. The accuser said that one of the players ejaculated near her mouth. She does not know whether objects were used vaginally - so the fact that she had sex with other guys the week before is not relevant.

[sylvia]

I think people have a big misconception about DNA evidence. If you think about it for a minute, DNA is not something that survives on the skin, because skin cells constantly shed. I would say that applies to the oral cavity as well because of saliva and swallowing.

You have a better chance of extracting DNA from clothing, which does not shed, and vaginally because the vagina is MADE to hold onto sperm cells so that pregnancy can occur. That is why you can detect sperm in the vagina for days after the event. But you are mistaken if you think the same concept holds true for other areas of the body, such as the skin.

[TomB]

I'm talking about orally Tom.

What does that matter?

DNA is DNA, no matter where it is recovered from.

There was no DNA recovered orally from any of the other guys she was supposed to have slept with the week before.

And?

The accuser said that one of the players ejaculated near her mouth.

Yet magically, NO SEMEN!

Really sylvia, you really are stretching here, why not give it up?

I just had a thought about skin cell DNA.

Not much of one. First of all, you only need a few cells to recover DNA. In addition, you seem to be stuck on "skin" DNA. But it can come from many other things; hair, saliva, blood, etc.

[sylvia]

Well Tom, by logic here, if you assume DNA can survive orally for long periods of time, (which I don't) then how come there are no positive oral swabs from the other guys she slept with recently before? There aren't any. Which supports my thesis that DNA evidence does not survive well in the oral cavity or on the skin, and thus the lack of finding any DNA orally or on the skin of the accuser proves nothing. It only proves that DNA evidence does not survive on the skin, not whether it was ever there in the first place.

[TomB]

Well Tom, by logic here, if you assume DNA can survive orally for long periods of time, (which I don't)

We aren't talking assumptions here. I'd appreciate a link to some scientific evidence supporting your "assumption". (hint: the recovery of DNA is a fairly well-researched area)

then how come there are no positive oral swabs from the other guys she slept with recently before?

Link please?

[sylvia]

Link Please?
Look on our other thread. There was a poster there who posted on the tests.

As to the other point, I don't know how long oral swabs are effective. I am not a biologist or a lawyer. I am just using my logic here. If you have any info on this, I'd be glad to read it.

[sylvia]

By the way, are you getting all those 'type the letters' test when you try to post? I am. Maybe it's a hint. I better stop posting so much or TomM will think I'm a spoof.

[TomB]

If you have any info on this, I'd be glad to read it.

Really?

Shouldn't you have read up on this before you lecture us on DNA evidence?

I'm a Dentist, so I have a bit of experience on the oral cavity, not to mention the vagaries of DNA.

[TomB]

Look on our other thread.

I should have guessed.

[djl130]

I think everyone should start ignoring Sylvia, don't feed the energy, it will wither...

[windansea]

Clarice you reference to the accuser as a "whore" is all I need to know.

in SylviaWorld semen from 5 guys in a stripper is not enough evidence to call her a whore, but Precious' accusation is clear evidence and reason enough for a trial.

Sylvia, we've had lots of threads here about this case for months, yet you show up when Wendy Murphy is mentioned...why dat?

[windansea]

RALEIGH, N.C. (AP) -- The state attorney general's office agreed Saturday to take over the sexual assault case against three Duke University lacrosse players at the request of the embattled district attorney.

Cooper said Jim Coman, a former director of the State Bureau of Investigation and head of the attorney general's Special Prosecution Section, and Mary D. Winstead, a prosecutor in that division, would now oversee the case.

[TomB]

As to the other point, I don't know how long oral swabs are effective.

For some reason I missed this.

I can't believe I'm being lectured on DNA evidence by someone who doesn't know what an oral swab is.

Here's a clue: they weren't swabbing the lax players for the strippers DNA.

[quest33]

DNA
The private lab that Nifong used, after the State lab didn't come up with any usable DNA evidence, claims that they can get DNA from just one (1) cell.
(On a personal note, I really think that is amazing.)

Of course that same lab then conspired with Nifong to conceal the fact that none of the DNA of the many men found in this Professional Prostitute and Dancer matched any DNA from the Duke Lacrosse Team.

[windansea]

"I wish I could tell you this case would be resolved quickly," Cooper said at a news conference Saturday. "Since we have not been involved in the investigation and prosecution, all of the information will be new to our office. Any case with such serious criminal charges will require careful review

[windansea]

sounds like they are going to punt

[R C Dean]

Frankly, I don't see how Nifong keeps his law license after this. There are multiple serious violations of ethics rules, and it looks like he has committed complainants to dog the state bar about it.

Revoking his license will be one small step to justice.