First Plame Bombshell - David Gregory of NBC, Leak Recipient And Liar?

BREAKING, BIG:

We are relying on the live-blogging of the Libby trial by the always-astute EmptyWheel, who is covering the opening statement of Libby's attorney, Ted Wells, but we have a potential blockbuster absolutely guaranteed to get exactly zero headlines.

Ted Wells drops the news that David Gregory of NBC received a leak about Plame from Ari Fleischer on July 11:

Now shows Ari dislcoses to David Gregory on July 11 that Ambassador Wilson's wife worked at the CIA. Fleischer tells that before Libby was ever indicted. "I told David Gregory." Talks about time difference, says Ari leaked to Gregory first.

Now let's flash back to October 29, 2005, just after the Libby indictment.  Russert has gathered the Washington Bureau to discuss the case on CNBC's "Tim Russert Show".  At the time, I excerpted the transcript and suggested they were rehearsing their cover story.  So let's cut to David Gregory:

RUSSERT: Well, ironically, when I was asked about this, I said, if I had known this, I would have told Andrea Mitchell. I would have told Pete Williams.
MITCHELL: In fact, Tim, you would have called me and said, `You hosted "Meet the Press" and questioned Joe Wilson and covered the agency and you didn't know that the wife--what's going on with you?'
RUSSERT: And I did call Neal Shapiro, the head of NBC News, and say, `You know, we have this high-level viewer complaint about what's on cable,' and that--you know, that was the extent of my sharing information with Neal Shapiro.
GREGORY: Wait...
RUSSERT: If I had known something with--then I would have said to Neal--and Neal would have said, `Get to the cameras.' Or you know what? Actually it is so sensitive...
MITCHELL: We would have decided not to...
RUSSERT: ...I would have even talked--we would have talked it through and said...
MITCHELL: Right.
RUSSERT: ...`Hey, what about this?' or `Should we check her status?' It's easy to say that in hindsight, but I...
MITCHELL: In fact, we should tell...
RUSSERT: ...when I read it in Novak, boom.
GREGORY: And it is interesting--it's also interesting, I should just point out, that nobody called me at any point, which is unfortunately...
WILLIAMS: Apparently not.
GREGORY: ...not the point.
RUSSERT: Does anybody ever?
GREGORY: But I just wanted to note that.
RUSSERT: I've been meaning to talk to you about that.

Nobody called him except Ari Fleischer.  Baffling.  Now, before I run amok, let me remind folks that Libby "confessed" to leaking to Glenn Kessler of the WaPo, who spoke with Fitzgerald and insisted that Libby had done no such thing.

SO - one might presume that Fitzgerald spoke with David Gregory, and one ought to hold open the possibility that Mr. Fleischer made the same type of error made by Mr. Libby.

However, there is a small straw in the wind from Fitzgerald's opening statement (again, based on the EW liveblogging):

Ari had conversations with reporters that he should not have had

Reporters, plural?   I have long asserted that Ari Fleischer leaked to Walter Pincus, but an additional leak to David Gregory would justify the use of the plural.

I have no doubt that reporters will line up to learn whether David Gregory (a) was interviewed by Fitzgerald (apparently not, see MORE); (b) received a leak from Ari Fleischer, and (c) lied on the "Tim Russert Show" on Oct 29, 2005.  Unless, of course, the media covers for their own, which is what will happen here.

I am going to post this to highlight the Gregory discrepancy, then see the rest of the Wells statement to see where he went with this.  But *IF* Gregory is lying, can Andrea and Russert be as clean as the snow?  here is more detail on Andrea Mitchell's evasions, confusions, and close coverage of the Wilson-Niger story; Russert's tightly focused denial is tagged here.

MORE: From the live blog summary of the Wells opening statement:

Mr. Russert was only questioned for 22 minutes.

Mr. Russert was not even required to go down to court. They interviewed Mr. Russert in a law office. All the Grand Jurors saw was Russert's transcript.

Mr. Russert was not asked one question about David Gregory, or about Andrea Mitchell.

Mr. Fitzgerald says the FBI was concerned about getting to the truth. Tim Russert had a deal. He had a deal with the government. He would only be questioned about his conversation with Mr. Libby.  He had a deal. [Says it with a snear in his voice.]

They didn't ask Mr. Russert about Mitchell or Gregory.

Went out and asked if they would submit to an interview.

They don't want to be interviewed. No subpoena. She doesn't talk to the government.

So neither Gregory nor Mitchell spoke with Fitzgerald?  That is consistent with Mitchell's story, and means Fitzgerald left the Gregory detail hanging.  Wow.  I am so surprised that I want to see some one else's coverage to see if the EmptyWheel got a flat here or something - unlikely, because she is well up to speed on the implications of all this, but still... [Several big time journalists picked up on the Fleischer-Gregory item - link].

A NOTE TO DAVID GREGORY"S APOLOGISTS:  Please, stop it.  Yes, it would be hard to sustain a perjury conviction on the basis of that transcript.  However, Gregory is a reporter, not a contestant on "I've Got A Secret" - if Russert and Mitchell are explaining that they didn't get leaks, so therefore they could not have known, it is incumbent upon Mr. Gregory to deliver a bit of corrective news and admit to his involvement with Mr. Fleischer.  Failure to do so is a lie of omission, i.e., the deliberate concealment of relevant information with the intent to deceive.

And by chiming in with "nobody called me at any point", Gregory certainly does not clarify the situation for the viewer.  Quite the contrary.  In this context, I consider that a clear lie - his intent was to leave viewers with the impression that he had not received a leak.

And to be fair, perhaps he did not - at this point, I would not expect there to be much evidence other than Ari's word.

 

Comments

[Ugh]

Great details Tom, but the story tonight will be "Libby Blames White House!" or something similar.

[PaulL]

Gregory said no one CALLED him. He didn't say Ari didn't talk to him directly in person.

[cboldt]

-- So neither Gregory nor Mitchell spoke with Fitzgerald? --

The pieces line up if Fitz is focused on false statements.

It's great that Gregory is being outed as a liar.

[Martin]

Of all today's news-you want to focus on David Gregory?!

"Libby Trial meets American Psycho"

[boris]

Fitz is focused

Sorta like one of those psych experiments where they set up fake scenarios and actually study the "assistants" who think they're helping and don't know they're really the subjects.

[Sue]

The night before Grossman testified, Armitage visited Grossman. Tells him that he wants him to know he was the one who leaked to Novak. Mr. Grossman was "mixed up" in this matter in a different way. Grossman recognized that meeting with another witness could be construed as cooking the books.

Crazy. This should have been shut down a long time ago. By someone.

[steve sturm]

As I wrote a while back, I think Fitzgerald made a big mistake in basing this case on the backs and testimony of journalists (especially, in one case, the husband of a Democratic activist). Granted, the jury might not think much of Bush and company, but reporters sure aren't high on the list of admired people, are they?

[Javani]

"no one called"

That's mimicking Novak's similar words around that time.

From that trascript of Russert, man Russert is a smooth talker, is he a former see him dodge that question if he knew? Priceless. And the way he frames Libby:

""He then says that I shared with him the name of Valerie Plame and that she worked for the CIA.""

That's one reason why Wells is focusnig on "the wife."

[TexasToast]

David Gragory is on trial? Looks like everyone but our defendant will be by the time the defense is through.

Per your previous post - I would really like to see those sulfurous Cheney flames. What a great mental picture! (smile)

[hit and run]

Gregory said no one CALLED him. He didn't say Ari didn't talk to him directly in person.

Or Gregory called Ari, or email.

Or maybe Gregory and Ari used a previously identified payphone - "he didn't call me, he called a payphone. I just happened to pick up."

Or maybe Ari left a package by a lampost a couple of blocks from the WH?

[hit and run]

Looks like everyone but our defendant will be by the time the defense is through.

Pretty much a minimal requirement for a minimally competent defense attorney, especially in a he-said/he-said/she-said case.

[vnjagvet]

TT:

Apparently you have not observed many criminal trials. It is classic defense strategy to lay off guilt on anyone but the accused. Especially where, as here, no one else is indicted. The jury must decide whether all of the prosecution's theory is proven "beyond a reasonable doubt". If Wells makes a plausible showing that the bad guy(s) in the administration is (are) anyone but Libby, voila, reasonable doubt.

Don't scoff until all the evidence is in. It is only the first real day of a long trial.

[azredneck]

Let's hope gregory gets his!!!

[topsecretk9]

What? I THOUGHT HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE MY PROXY!!!!

[TexasToast]

VNJ

Wells is doing some pretty good "...pounding of the table." I'm hopin' that "Cheney made me do it" is the defense of choice. Sulfurous, indeedy!

[sad]

Let's hope gregory gets his!!!

He is incredibly deserving!!!!

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

Am I too big to say 'I told you so'?

Hahahahahaha:

RUSSERT: I came back after that interview, after The New York Times piece, and there was a discussion about Joe Wilson and I didn't know very much. And then when I read Novak's column the following Monday, I said, `Oh, my God, that's it. Now I see. It's his wife, Valerie Plame, CIA, sent him on the trip. Now I understand what everybody was trying to figure out.'

[hit and run]

Well, at least Gregory didn't do any sanctimonious self-righteous grandstanding in any WH press briefings with say Scott McClellan. That would be embarrassing.

[clarice]

WOWSERS--WOWSERS--and the twofer is that that showboating fool is exposed.
And Mitchell and Russert (short NBC stock)..And best of all Wells is skillfully weaving in the facts about the reverse battleship nature of an investigation headed by a dunce who had the nerve to charge anyone with obstructing justice.

[Javani]

From EmptyWheel

"Mr. Russert [I think he misstated–he means Cooper]. His question to Mr. Libby was about the same as Mr. Russert said.

Mr. Libby said, "I heard that too.""

---Oh, so they're relying on Cooper's "correct" memory here? Well, anything that helps...I guess

"She says she might have been trying to trick Mr. Libby."

Of course she was. Will "all the reporters" admit they use such ruses as part of the trade?

[Anonymous Liberal]

Tom,

I think your 'gotcha' on Gregory is a little pre-mature. That transcript from the Russert show is totally ambiguous. When Gregory says "nobody called me," he may well be refering to Russert and Mitchell, i.e., 'no one at NBC called me to see what I knew'. Or, he might be referring to the the FBI and Special Prosecutor's office, i.e., 'no one from the government called me to see what I knew'.

From the context, it's not at all obvious that he's referring to the initial leaking. So I don't think you've caught him in a lie.

[Rick Ballard]

"Or maybe Ari left a package by a lampost a couple of blocks from the WH?"

Nah. Hollowed out pumpkin.

[vnjagvet]

An interesting observations from Joyner:

Grossman was a good witness for Libby on the memory issue;

Grossman's demeanor was neutral in that he displayed no animosity towards Libby;

In view of the above Wells may have been a bit too confrontational in some of his cross.

[windansea]

INR memo

Wanted more info, just felt like it needed to be fuller

Would have requested for the memo to the executive secretary

Now looking at the rest of the week.

May 30, were you in office that day?

Grossman left for Madrid on Sunday June 1 then went to N Africa.

Returned back in office on June 9.

Don't recall whether report was waiting for him when he got back to the office. Got it either late on the 10th or 11th of June.

Grossman read the report.

Report was a full compilation of what the department knew, what our people had been involved with getting the trip organized.

Explains what INR is-research organization.

Information about Joseph Wilson's wife?

I recall reading Valerie Wilson was employed at CIA.

Mrs. Wilson was in the Chair of those meetings. Plame described as WMD manager type.

According to the report, she was the organizer of the Ambassador Wilson's trip.

"I thought this was pretty interesting. Odd that she worked at the agency and was involved in the organization of the trip."

Grossman thought it was not appropriate

[clarice]

Possibly, AL--but when you put together the Mitchell/Russert stuff--that from the outset (per Grossman) everyone at State knew and the fact that Mitchell was pimping DoS leaks like crazy at the time- the inference that they are a lying sack of weasels is rational.
This is more fun than "Rome"

[vnjagvet]

An = Some

[SteveMG]

If someone testifies that they saw a prothonotary warbler, all hell will break loose.

SMG

[Rick Ballard]

Does anyone recall if Munchausen raised the "they're out to get me" hue and cry prior to Grossman's heads up of May 29?

Grossman was sure a good buddy.

[clarice]

He raised that likelihood in his June 14, 2003 EPIC performance where he first annointed himself as a truth telling whistleblower whom the administration would certainly try to take revenge on, Rick.

[Patton]

Did Wells ever ask Grossman if he evr bothered to check to see if anything was classified with regard tp the trip before talking to a civilian blabbermouth like Wilson?? Did he check to see if Plame was a covert operative before passing this information to Libby?

And what EXACTLY did Wilson tell Grossman about his wife on that first phone call over an open telephone line, at night, in the dark, while David Gregory slept?

[Martin]

This is like being inside the heads of the OJ jurors as the truth glides by unnoticed.

[Patton]

Martin, glad to hear your with your family.....

[Javani]

"In view of the above Wells may have been a bit too confrontational in some of his cross."

Hard to say. According to the commentary, Grossman acting sheepish. Talked with Armitage the day before testimony? Wow.

Wells is trying to establish that lots of people knew. Grossman counters that he hadn't read the Kristof article. Maybe will testify there was more interest later in June when more articles. Plus the British must have called up about the smudge on their own intelligence? Wells will do well to focus that the info at issue is British, not a Bushlie.

[windansea]

Grossman looking a little sheepish. Boy does he look like an uncomfortable little kid. He's got gangly hands and big ears.

You had one conversation concerning Mr. Wilson's wife.

Only conversation was on or about June 11 or 12, right?

Yes sir.

That conversation probably lasted 30 seconds or less, right?

Yes.

Wells giving Grossman his grand jury testimony.

Your first conversation was May 29.

You need the calendar to identify when you met with Mr. Libby. You're only reconstructing it based on your examination of your calendar.

Is it fair to say that you are assuming that that is the date.

In terms of your present recollection, you don't have any recollection. You referred to that as "reconstruction."

When you reconstruct your testimony, you're talking about an analysis of the calendar. You have no present recollection of the date.

May 29, 2003, was your first conversation with Libby.

Libby asked him about the trip of an ambassador.

Grossman never read Kristof's article.

In all the years, you never looked at it.

I was trying to answer the questions people asked of me.

It became apparent to me that, yes, there was lot's of talk about a retired ambassador.

In connection with the lots of talk, did you know that the lots of talk had to do with this article.

Mr. Libby didn't ask you to commission a report?

No.

No discussion that the Ambassador's name was Joe Wilson.

Then you met with Mr. Armitage, Why did you meet with Mr. Armitage?

You told Mr. Armitage that Libby had asked a question.

Had Mr. Armitage not read the Kristof aritcle?

Do you find it odd that there was an article that was HIGHLY critical about the State Department, and neither you nor Armitage read the article?

I recognize that this doesn't sound so smart now. My whole job was to make sure what we were doing in Iraq and Afghanistan was right.

4:38

After you talked to Armitage you send an email to a Mr. Ford and Kansteiner.

Correct.

May 29.

Describe what INR is. State Department's research and intelligence.

Kansteiner in charge of Africa bureau.

I aksed if it rang any bells with them.

May 29, I think I called Joe Wilson.

Very first time he talked to Wilson about the trip.

Grossman believes he told Wilson Libby told him to look into the trip.

Grossman, I don't think anything else happened, I may have made interim call to Libby on May 29 or 30.

I told him I'd known Joe Wilson, and that's why I called him.

Did you tell him you went back all the way to college. No.

Did you tell him you had servedin the Foreign Service in similar capacities over the year. No.

1991 Grossman DCM in Turkey and Wilson DCM in Baghdad.

We only spoke when we were involved in evacuating American personnel from Kuwait.

You in fact knew Mrs. Wilson. Saw her at the gym. Yes.

I was invited to their house. He invited me there to breakfast and I went. (For a UCSB fundraising event.)

WRT May 29, there's no discussion about "the wife." Because you do not know about "the wife" until June 9 or 10.

You then go out of the country.

Grossman takes a sip of water.

Let's pin down the dates when you were out of the country.

Return from Tunis on June 6. Back in office on June 9.

Wells: One other thing happened on May 29. You asked Mr. Ford and Mr. Kansteiner to do a memo setting forth what they knew about Joe Wilson's trip. You told Mr. Ford and Mr. Kansteiner that the memo was being prepared in response to an inquiry from Scooter Libby. You told them, I want a memo prepared because Mr. Libby has asked me a question.

June 9, report's not ready. Then, you said you got the report on June 11 or 12. I think it came either the night of the 10th or 11th.

I want you to look at the report.

Grossman has a grimace on his face.

Is that a copy of the report you got on June 10 or 11.

Report does not say anything about the fact that Mr. Libby has requested information from the State Department. Anyone reading this report would have no idea that report's generation occurred because Mr Libby asked you a question.

Report refers to Valerie Wilson.

Here's the INR stuff that, from memory, was redacted before:

Joe Wilson played only a walk-on part in the Niger.Iraq uranium story.

But said he would only go if the department said the trip made sense.

There is absolutely no indication that OVP had anything to do in terms of requesting Mr. Wilson to go on that trip. There's no evidence that Cheney asked for this trip.

Report of Mr. Wilson's trip given to State and CIA. Grossman: As far as I know.

Armitage knows about the report and that Grossman was going to talk to Mr. Libby.

We want to test the credibility. Wells tries to bring up what Armitage said, objection sustained.

Very close working relationship. Close friendship with Armitage. just a professional relationship with Libby.

When you talked to Libby, it was either before or after one of these big meetings.

Involved issues of national security.

In terms of the way you personally had to prepare, it was like a final exam. Yes, five or six or them in a row.

In terms of how you viewed the importance of "the wife" did you view the wife as zero or less than zero importance?

I thought the whole thing was unimportant. I thought the wife was an interesting tidbit.

You didn't utter ANY words to Libby that her classification was classified or covert.

No sir.

[windansea]

Grossman takes a sip of water.

GULP....:)

[clarice]

Suggests he was the one who first planted the notion Libby was gunning for Joe, doesn't it. At a minimum he, too, has made a misrecollection of a significant matter.

[Sue]

Only conversation was on or about June 11 or 12, right?

Yes sir.

Why is this sticking out at me? Didn't we think Grossman had another conversation with Libby concerning Plame?

[Sara (Squiggler)]

Grossman on cross:

Grossman thought that the whole Wilson matter was a non-story at the time and the matter of “the wife” only “an interesting tidbit.”

There was no indication at the time that her status was covert or classified, much less conveyed to Libby as such.

See previous JOM thread for fuller account and quotes via Joyner.

[windansea]

whole lotta misrecollectin goin on

[Patton]

Is there a transcript available?

[Sara (Squiggler)]

Sue, he talked to Libby every day just about according to his testimony. Libby asked, Grossman says I'll get back to you, later after talking to Wilsom and at least 3 others, he talks to Libby again about Wilson's trip.

[windansea]

wy doesn't Wells ask the gimp why he re released the INR memo

[Sara (Squiggler)]

Patton, Joyner gave the best summary. No transcripts yet. See other thread.

[windansea]

Is there a transcript available?

this is Wheeler live blogging at FDL

[clarice]

I am sure we will get some questions about the "second pressing" of the memo.

[Sue]

I should have been more specific. He says the only conversation with Libby with regards to the wife was on that date. I thought he had another conversation later in the month or early July with Grossman about Plame. Am I wrong?

[jerry]

I sort of like this idea that Bush/Rove were the original leakers (to Novak, before Armitage) and Cheney/Libby were brought in to spread the word and collect the blame... then scapegoated to protect Bush/Rove. Now that's drama!

[Javani]

"He raised that likelihood in his June 14, 2003 EPIC performance where he first annointed himself as a truth telling whistleblower whom the administration would certainly try to take revenge on, Rick."

Clarice, he did that before, of course anonymously.

Think about this, between the time he was praising Bush for taking out a "fascist" dictator and signing up with Team Kerry, did Joe apply for some Iraqi Reconstruction consulting and got rejected? Might have made him mad...I can't imagine him not applying, it would be something he's well-qualified to do.

[windansea]

Now that's drama!

drama queen...

[Sue]

id Joe apply for some Iraqi Reconstruction consulting and got rejected

Something pissed him off. I have read his pre-invasion public statements and compared them to his post-invasion public statements and they don't sound like the same person. Maybe it isn't. Maybe the CIA did a face transplant and switched him with someone else.