EJ Dionne, Stuck With His Talking Points

EJ Dionne is stuck with the reliable talking points of Joe Wilson's defenders:

Libby-Cheney apologists have argued over and over that Cheney had a right to be angry because Wilson said that Cheney had sent him to Niger. But Wilson said no such thing. In his New York Times piece, Wilson wrote only that he had been "informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney's office had questions about a particular intelligence report.'' That was true.

Please.  If Wilson's only relevant statement was the July 6 op-ed, why were the White House and State Dept responding to his charges in June - eerie prescience?

Actually, they were responding to these May 6 and June 13 Kristof columns and the misconceptions they fueled.  Here we go, May 6:

I'm told by a person involved in the Niger caper that more than a year ago the vice president's office asked for an investigation of the uranium deal, so a former U.S. ambassador to Africa was dispatched to Niger.

And June 13:

Condoleezza Rice was asked on "Meet the Press" on Sunday about a column of mine from May 6 regarding President Bush's reliance on forged documents to claim that Iraq had sought uranium in Africa. That was not just a case of hyping intelligence, but of asserting something that had already been flatly discredited by an envoy investigating at the behest of the office of Vice President Dick Cheney.

And for laughs, here is Chris Matthews insisting, *after* the Wilson column came out, that Wilson was sent "at the behest" of the Vice President.

Public perceptions can be hard to change, as Mr. Dionne demonstrates.

MORE:  IIRC, somewhere in Grossman's testimony he says that, in talking to Wilson in June, it seemed that Wilson believed he had been sent by the VP.  And folks paying attention during the trial noticed that Valerie Wilson wrote the memo recommending/endorsing her husband for his Niger trip on Feb 12; Cheney asked his questions on Feb 13.

WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE: From Dionne, emphasis added:

Whatever the jury decides, Fitzgerald has amply demonstrated that Cheney directed Libby to destroy Wilson's credibility, partly by leaking that his wife, Valerie Plame Wilson, was a CIA operative who had suggested Wilson was well qualified to investigate the claims in Niger.

Is "amply demonstrated" a new threshold of proof?  How does it compare to "reasonable doubt"?

Comments

[R C Dean]

Cheney directed Libby to destroy Wilson's credibility

Perfectly legal, last I checked.

leaking that his wife, Valerie Plame Wilson, was a CIA operative

Also perfectly legal, unless she was covert, which nearly everyone now agrees she was not.

IOW, Cheney stands convicted of playing bareknuckles politics. In Washington D.C.! So why are we in court again?

[BumperStickerist]

How can you destroy something that wasn't first established?

I read that NYT piece at the time and thought "No one human being could make those claims given the amount of time they spent and the circumstances of their travel."

The fact that Joe Wilson wrote the op-ed was entirely beside the point.

[hit and run]

Tom:
Is "amply demonstrated" a new threshold of proof? How does it compare to "reasonable doubt"?

I prefer "partly cloudy"

[bad]

Dionne should now feel properly bitch slapped. Way to go TM. But I'll bet you confused him with all those facts and whatnot.

[Dwilkers]

OT

OMG. I was just feeding the the Herbmeister and in the background RolyPoly Russert was babbling on the Today Show and he actually said that AlGore was positioned to become the Dem nominee if one of the front runners faltered in part because "he's won the Academy Award". That's right. Tim Russert thinks winning an Academy Award contributes to your being in a good position to run for president.

I'm going to buy some property in Wyoming and stock up on guns and food because the end is truly nigh.

[capitano]

Is "amply demonstrated" a new threshold of proof?

Yes, Al Gore invented it for "Inconvenient Truth."

It's the new, carbon-neutral factual standard to replace the MSM's shopworn "many critics believe...."

[Pofarmer]

Cheney stands convicted of playing bareknuckles politics.

Yeah, Cheney is so badass he got Armitage at State to leak to Novak. Don't bother that Armitage was antiwar and didn't particularly like the administration. Cheney is one mean dude.

[Pofarmer]

Tim Russert thinks winning an Academy Award contributes to your being in a good position to run for president.

Vanity, all vanity. There is nothing I hate worse than a vain man.

[Nick Kasoff - The Thug Report]

Sorry to see a fine gent like Dionne subscribing to what has increasingly become the mantra of the left-of-center media: If at first you don't succeed, lie, lie again.

Nick Kasoff
The Thug Report

[Pofarmer]

If at first you don't succeed, lie, lie again.

Rules of propaganda. A lie repeated often enough becomes the truth.

[maryrose]

EJ Dionne:
This is ludicrous.
Fact 1: Cheney never sent Wilson
Fact2 Val is not covert
Fact 3
Feb 13th is when Cheney asked about referral
Fact 4: Cheney was not out to get Wilson just correct his misinformation and tousle his very important hair.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

This really is just getting depressing.

[Pofarmer]

Ya mean the fact that the MSM and the prosecutor apparently couldn't find their ass with a bell tied to it? Or something else?

[Dwilkers]

TM:

Actually, they were responding to these May 6 and July 13 Kristof columns and the misconceptions they fueled.

Should be June 13.

[richard mcenroe]

"amply demonstrated" is the new "consensus" which is the old "everyone knows" which is the older "No one knows any such thing." I.E., the Harper Valley PTA rule.

Besides, it's been "amply demonstrated" that special prosecutors never prosecute crimes that the "consensus" is actually took place,

[clarice]

I really think that everyday you read the op ed page of the WaPo you lose brain cells.Lots of brain cells.

[PeterUK]

"Office of the Vice President".
"Hi,this is the CIA,do you want us to send an expert to examine the Niger issue - or would Joe Wilson do?"....."It would help since we at the CIA are having an embargo on all things French,Freedom Fries,Freedom covert operatives,Joe speaks fluent French,soul of discretion ,besides the climate suits his dark complexion".
"Thanks Mr Vice President - you won't regret this".

[PMII]

I don't watch or read anything from the MSM - haven't for years, unless referenced by a blog.

But they still have a lot of power, they can pick any topic and report total dortions on it day in & day out and the average Joe will eventually believe it. Seems to happen all the time.

[Gabriel]

EJ Dionne, the next in line after David Broder.

It's a good idea to take Dionne to task. In particular, to take the Washington Post to task. Dionne is slated to be THE columnist for the WAPO for a long time. If he's setting these standards now, what are we to think of the next columnist in line at the Washington Post?

Has anyone invited EJ to become a JOM reader? I think he's overdue.

[Other Tom]

I wrote an e-mail to Dionne yesterday (a couple of times in the past he has actually responded), and this morning I cut-and-pasted Maguire's opening paragraphs for another e-mail to him. He's one of the most insidious of the propagandists, in that he does a pretty good job of portraying himself as a man of principle. Until now.

I, too, think it's depressing. It reminds me of the current throw-away line, "the now-discredited charges of the Swift Boat veterans," as if the issue were settled. Happily, the single sound-bite "Christmas in Cambodia" is enough to quash that one. And sound bites are all that is allowed these days.

[bio mom]

Clarice: Try reading the NY Times op'ed page!! They include lots of letters from the goofy lefties living in all the liberal voting cities. They are hysterical!! A great way to get your blood flowing in the morning.

[Mary Luminatrix (Paris)]

Yesterday before the offing, someone edited Wikipedia under Chayes, but, hey, the Pashtu's tried to off Dick, so, like, if Dick was dead, were would that leave the Plame thing?

Plame isn't covert and Chayes isn't CIA, but I'd still like to know if Arghand paid out to those warlords. The USAID money came from Shayes, so, I guess the USAID money is traceable and she did open up day labor facilities like the ones in Canada, but, hey, only a day laborer may have known she's a spy. So, Joe, Chris, Ames, Howard, Shayes(and wife), Chayes, etc. were all what?

So, Plame knew these?

Abram Chayes

cache.boston.com/.../05/09/1147173064_4814.jpg

www.travispark.org/images/photos/sarah_chayes.jpg

www.mercycorps.org

Also see Abram Chayes; Harvard, Kennedy Peace Corps, Green Berets, Afghanistan War rural pacification program run by Mercy Corps from heavy USAID(CIA) funding while Sarah Chayes ran Mercy Corps another RPCV(retired Peace Corps volunteer) became the first civilian casualty assassinated(under provisional authority) while going to destroy a house. She was a judge and this was the beginning of the program to have retired judges work overseas as volunteers. Also see Chris Chayes Intelligence Committee and wife - RPCVs; funding and planning of Afghanistan war. Phase one Green Berets and phase two rural pacifiction alot like the Vietnam war. The issue of poppeys and the drug eradication program was appointed to a retired Peace Corps Director, Mark L. Schneider, who was once noted for referring to a murdered Peace Corps Volunteer who was hacked to death and put in a barrel as 'garbage.'

Also see Abram Chayes; Harvard, Kennedy Peace Corps, Green Berets, Afghanistan War rural pacification program run by Mercy Corps from heavy USAID(CIA) funding while Sarah Chayes ran Mercy Corps another RPCV(retired Peace Corps volunteer) became the first civilian casualty assassinated(under provisional authority) while going to destroy a house. She was a judge and this was the beginning of the program to have retired judges work overseas as volunteers. Also see Chris Chayes Intelligence Committee and wife - RPCVs; funding and planning of Afghanistan war. Phase one Green Berets and phase two rural pacifiction alot like the Vietnam war. The issue of poppeys and the drug eradication program in Afghanistan was appointed(Drug Program) to a retired Peace Corps Director, Mark L. Schneider, who was once noted for referring to a murdered Peace Corps Volunteer who was hacked to death and put in a barrel as 'garbage.'

It has been rumored on the internet for years that Sarah Chayes is involved, like Plame, in intelligence activities because of the heavy USAID funding and past history in relation to the planning and funding of the Afghanistan war. The insurgency in Afghanistan South began shortly after Chayes renounced Karzai and family that she had become very close to through USAID funding.

It's not the best entry, but a start. But kill Dick? Gee, 8/10 over a photo.

Notice the Foley along with Bushs:
http://www.andover.edu/about_andover/notable_alums.htm

Harvard International programs:
http://www.law.harvard.edu/ils/resources/fellowships/chayes_international_public_service_fellowship/

The first civilian casualty in Iraq was probably because of Plame and Chayes. Fern Holland, one too.

Cool countdown clock:
http://www.thecleverest.com/countdown.swf

I might write a book if I can write coherently.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Yeah, OT, exactly. "Now-discredited claims" that were pretty well documented, the anthropogenic warming "hockey stick" that is an artifact of data mining, Iraq a "failure", the "defeat" at Tet....

[Charlie (Colorado)]

I might write a book if I can write coherently.

Don't hold our breath, you say?

[Other Tom]

I must say, I don't uderstand how Abram Chayes enters into this thing at all, and would be interested if someone would explain.

Chayes taught me Civil Procedure in the Fall of 1973. He had been in the Kennedy Administration (45 years ago), where his chief claim to fame had been calling the blockade of Cuba during the missile crisis a "quarantine."

He's got to be well along in years by now. What's going on here?

[Rick Ballard]

"EJ Dionne, the next in line after David Broder."

So will he be the last stegosaurus or the next to last? There must have been a time in my life when I actually gave a damn about what a pseudojournalist had to say about anything but for the life of me I cannot remember who it was or when I stopped paying attention.

[Pofarmer]

the anthropogenic warming "hockey stick" that is an artifact of data mining,

Aw, now c'mon. You mean just because readings in areas that have remained rural are relatively unchanged from 100 years ago there may be some problem with data.

[Other Tom]

I just checked, and Abram Chayes died in April 2000 at the age of 77. So how does his name crop up in the Plame thing?

[clarice]

You think it was a natural death, do you, OT? Hah!! *rolling eyes*

[secarr]

"Whatever the jury decides" That means that this little weasel (Dionne) is trying to publicly hedge his bets because, while his America-hating heart makes him want to believe in Fitzmas, his mind is telling him that there isn't a Paddy Claus.

[Sue]

Congressman Dingell started talking about how much more dangerous Dick Cheney will get as legal attention closes in on him.

From EW over at the swamp. The link is on the right if you want to read the entire blog. My question is...are congressman really this bizarre? They talk about the VP of the US getting more dangerous? WTF is wrong with this country? Seriously...

[hit and run]

Other Tom:
Chayes taught me Civil Procedure in the Fall of 1973.

Well, that sounds like fun and all, but not compared to Telluride at that time. I mean, Charlie and Jane and snowball fights and streaking?

[Other Tom]

Back around 1972, Congressman Dingell co-sponsored a bill with Sen. Russell Long of Louisiana. It was known as the "Long-Dingell bill." No one in Washington could mention the bill by name without breaking into a knowing grin. I'm not making this up.

[Other Tom]

H&R, if I had it to do over again I'd have been in Telluride from that day to this.

[Sue]

I'm amazed. Why am I amazed? I see it everyday. I read it everyday. But damn it, I keep hoping that the left is just silly, not truly delusional. We are in a world of hurt, when people in this country find the VP of the US more dangerous than the enemies of our country. And these freakoids are in charge!

[bio mom]

I have always believed we should have term limits for both houses of congress. Now I also think we need to have a mandatory retirement age. Dingell is well past the time he is thinking rationally. Murtha also. There are many on both sides of the aisle who should be enjoying their retirement. I would like to trust the voters of their districts or states to do this, but the great power of incumbency doesn't allow this. Why else is Robert Byrd still in the Sentate?

[clarice]

Dingell is the only thing in the House preventing Pelosi from "greenng" America--a/k/a taxing us all to death for energy use while Gore and Pelosi,Teresa and John, Barbra and Lear hog it up and pay "offsets" .Otherwise, I have no use for him, either.

[PeterUK]

Apparently whatever numbers are put in the computer model,birthday,size of bust,shoe size,the result is a hockey stick.

On the other hand there is clear evidence of anthropogenic lying by the algorati.

[Jane]

Harummph! We need a thread herder!

[jerry]

FWIW Wilson was on CNN in March 2003 talking about the niger forgeries and criticizing the WH. He also talked to Congress about Niger in the months before his op-ed.

So, from my perspective, the idea that Armitage and Woodward were tiptoeing around WH anti-Wilson talking points in early June makes sense.

The idea that Libby et al suddenly developed a plan to push back against Wilson after the op-ed is absurd.

[Tomf]

bio mom:

Robert Byrd is the concious of the Senate.
As in, "oh look, Senator Byrd is conscious today."

[owl]

Sue
WTF is wrong with this country?

And the answer is....MSM

PMII
But they still have a lot of power, they can pick any topic and report total dortions on it day in & day out and the average Joe will eventually believe it.

The path to "Wilson lied, Libby tried". Internet not there yet. If we intend to win another war or not pay UN global taxes.....faster, faster.

The best kid on the block in 2003 with all this crap was NBC/MSNBC. O'Reilly just noticed in 2007. Needs to move on to ABC. More refined version of MSNBC and much more effective for the 2007 viewer.

[Neo]

Perhaps, E.J. Dijon was just letting off a little mustard gas.

[Jane]

It reminds me of the current throw-away line, "the now-discredited charges of the Swift Boat veterans," as if the issue were settled.

Mr. Right said that recently and I almost passed out. Mr. Right is a very bright man, but he gets his news from the NY Times. He is absolutely convinced the SWVT have been discredited. If so, I missed the whole thing.

[Jane]

Don't hold our breath, you say?

So far the laugh out loud line of the day.

[Gabriel]

How did the Chayes family enter this conversation?

[Gabriel]

jerry: That reminds me. Has anyone put together a timeline of Joseph Plame's media appearances over the last 5 years?

[Neo]

President Pro Tempore of the Senate

The Constitution provides for a president pro tempore to preside over the Senate in the absence of the vice president. By tradition, this position goes to the senior member of the majority party . Since 1890, the president pro tem has held office continuously until the election of another. The president pro tem is third in the line of presidential succession, behind the vice president and the Speaker of the House.

110th Congress (2007-2009) Robert C. Byrd (WV)

Isn't this scary.

In the meanwhile, as Chairman of the Committee on Appropriations, Bob will continue his quest to move the CIA to West Virginia.

[windansea]

TM

I sent your Rawstory interview to Lucianne yesterday...it's a must read on her site today.

[PMII]

TM,

Is it possible to receive college credit for the education received reading JustOneMinute?