Confusion In The Deliberation Room

Denis Collins, reporter and Libby juror, continues his fifteen minutes with a long account of the trial and deliberations available at the Huffington Post (don't wait for the book.)

I like this:

We've also heard testimony that [Libby] received from the Vice President a July 6 New York Times article by Joseph Wilson with a handwritten note about Wilson's wife.

Mission accomplished for Fitzgerald, then.  In reality, Libby testified that he never saw that marked-up op ed, and Fitzgerald offered nothing to contradict him.  Instead, it was offered as "state of mind" evidence - if it was important to Cheney, it must have been important to Libby.

Whatever.  Also in reality, Libby was convicted.

NOTE:  Background and links to relevant filings here.

Comments

[verner]

Yeah, the Huffington Post. Figures.

I wonder what his screen name is in their comments section.

And Denis hadn't maded up his mind before the trial. What Bull.

I am still in total shock that Wells let that Bozo on the jury.

[Semanticleo]

"Whatever. Also in reality, Libby was convicted."

There are other fish in the creel begging to be fried.

Speaking of lies.....How about Heather Wilson and Pete Domenici?

[roanoke]

Jeebus.

Are you reading that crap he has in italics at the beginning?

Gawd. He writes like a troll.

What the hell is that?

Dialogue-with his other personalities? Or just the jurors in his head.

[Nick Kasoff - The Thug Report]

Undoubtedly, this Collins jerk has a book deal. And it isn't with Regnery, either.

Nick Kasoff
The Thug Report

[verner]

Collins is an old friend of Isakoff's. How much you want to bet he read Corn/Issakof's poop filled Plame lovefest before he was summoned? From Huffington Post:

"As celebrities go, the jury favorite seems to be NPR’s Nina Totenberg. Everyday Nina. She raises the class quotient considerably. My favorite court visitor was an old Post friend, Mike Isikoff of Newsweek (President Clinton and Monica Lewinsky may still have nightmares of him sneaking into their closet.) Many years ago in San Francisco, he stayed with us while reporting on drug policy for the Post. Driving back from an interview with a marijuana grower in Humboldt County, he told us he stopped to check his suitcase. Sure enough, the grower had “gifted” him a bag of Humboldt Lightning. Isikoff immediately returned it.

I said, “Damn, Mike, couldn’t you have waited til you got back here to look?”

As I sit here now, to the best of my recollection, I believe I was only joking.

It is obvious that the guy was writing this all along, and has dollar signs in his eyes.

What a creep. It is sooo obvious he had an agenda. If he had told the whole truth in voire dire, there is NO WAY he would have been allowed on the jury.

[Sue]

verner,

According to his HuffPo semi-book, he did tell the truth. They knew he wrote a book about spies. Damndest thing I ever heard of. I don't think he changed the outcome of the trial, though.

[Spin Doctor]

In reality, Libby never testified at trial notwithstanding Wells' promise to the jury to put Scooter on the stand. The problem was not with the jury -- it was with the defense.

[RichatUF]

...Instead, it was offered as "state of mind" evidence - if it was important to Cheney, it must have been important to Libby...

Cheney maked up NYT op ed->Libby state of mind

Mitchell work product on "Capitol Report"->Russert statement "it would have been impossible..."

So the court argues for the prosecution, a marked up NYT op-ed is trustworthy for purposes of Libby's state-of-mind; however, they exclude from the defense that Mitchell's work product on "Capitol Report" is untrustworthy to confront a government witness and his "it would have been impossible..."

I thought confronting a witness was fundmental to due process [ianal].

RichatUF

[capitano]

It is obvious that the guy was writing this all along, and has dollar signs in his eyes.

What a creep. It is sooo obvious he had an agenda. If he had told the whole truth in voire dire, there is NO WAY he would have been allowed on the jury.

Posted by: verner | March 07, 2007 at 08:47 AM

I wonder if he would be interested in a screenplay or supporting role in a movie version of a real life drama starring Sharon Stone as Val and, of course, Joe playing himself?

[Ranger]

I posted this in the previous thread:

We've also heard testimony that he received from the Vice President a July 6 New York Times article by Joseph Wilson with a handwritten note about Wilson's wife.

Where? Where did he hear evidence of this?

Posted by: Sue | March 07, 2007 at 08:44 AM

I don't think there ever was any testimony about that particular article. I was simply entered into evidence as contents of files discovered during the investigation. That is why I have a feeling that it can be used by Team Libby to ask for the verdict to be set aside. If the jury made findings of fact based on no actual evidence, then the verdict is erroneous.

Since Fitz never presented any evidence that the note on the article about "did his wife send him on a junket" was written before the Novak article came out, there is no evidence that Libby ever saw the hand written note before he talked to Russert (if he ever saw it at all).

Posted by: Ranger | March 07, 2007 at 08:52 AM

So, I will add a question.

If the judge allowed a piece of evidence in for a specific purpose, and it is stated by a member of the jury that they used it for a different purpose, is that grounds for setting the verdict asside and granting a new trial?

I know juries are given wide latitude, but that seems over wide.

[Sue]

Ranger,

I have no idea. The judge cautioned them on numerous occasions that something was being admitted for state of mind only not to be considered for the truth of it, but I can't believe they used the Cheney marked-up article as evidence he knew. He testified in the gj that he had never seen the article and Fitz, as far as I can tell, did nothing to counter that.

[roanoke]

Here is the reason he finds Grossman believable-in the Huffpo piece-

"I didn't know. I should have known," he said of former Ambassador Joe Wilson's 2003 uranium hunt in Niger."But I had a lot of things to do. I recognize it doesn't seem so smart now, since this became such a big deal."

But then Collins makes this statement in todays' Chicago Tribune-

Jurors swept aside the main pillar of Libby's defense--that as Cheney's chief of staff he was so overwhelmed by his job that he could not be expected to recall details of conversations with reporters.

Speaking for the panel Tuesday after its verdict was announced, juror Denis Collins said he and his colleagues regarded this as "the least convincing thing" Libby's lawyers put forward.

Chicago Tribune

[bio mom]

My heart is broken for my country. That so many on the left are gleeful about such a miscarriage of justice is frightening. I am repelled by that juror. We are truly becoming Rome before its fall. And it isn't because of George Bush.

And on the right: Jim Geraghty at NRO piles on Bush with one thing after another. No context. Just the usual NRO hysteria. With such lack of loyalty and perspective, conservatives deserve their losses. I still maintain that Bush is the only adult around these days in the Beltway. Includes both politicians and the media.

May God help us all. We are going to need it.

[Legal Lurker]

clarice, kudos on your superb AT piece. If this narrative received the same play as the Wilson/Corn version that set off this whole debacle, and continues to mislead, people might understand why the prosecution and verdict are such a travesty.

I repeat my post from yesterday -- If you are incensed and want to do something constructive, contribute to the Libby Defense Fund. Let Libby decide whether to spend it on Wells or someone else. Listening to David Boise on H&C last night, I'd be giving him a call this morning if I were Libby.

[Jane]

If the judge allowed a piece of evidence in for a specific purpose, and it is stated by a member of the jury that they used it for a different purpose, is that grounds for setting the verdict asside and granting a new trial?

The real answer is: It depends.

[Gabriel]

This is repost from another JOM comment thread.

Jane Hamsher spoke to Dennis Collins before he took the podium for HIS PRESS CONFERENCE.
Source

Hamsher also made note of her discussion with Dennis Collins, the juror who spoke to the press, before he stepped up to the podium.

"It was quite inspirational to get a chance to talk to him, and to hear how seriously the jury had deliberated," she explained.

Hamsher posted an immediate reaction to the verdict. She didn't mention her conversation with Dennis Collins. She didn't even mention him by name.
source

FDL readers seem to suggest they knew Dennis Collins during the trial or jury selection. One reader says he they knew Collins was going to write a book.
Comment #136: pachacutec

From the day of vior dire, we all had Collins pegged to write a book about the trial. I remember his questioning vividly. He was grilled a long time.

/end

Out: Katherine Graham
In: Mrs. Michael Huffington

She divorced him but kept the last name? I like Stassinopoulos so much more. There's more of her to love/hate.

["State of Mind"]

I am going to find someone today and attribute their state of mind to a likely cause.

Just for the heck of it.

[verner]

Sue,

Remember, before the trial, the marked up article was THE smoking gun for the left--

It didn't matter what Walton said--Dennis, the creepy registered democrat, spy writing, friend of Michael Issakoff UNDOUBTABLY knew about it before the trial. He even said that he read the papers AND I would bet, since he chose the Huffington Post for his first outing, is also a consumer of anti-Bush internet sites.

I think that statement alone should be grounds for a reversal of this pathetic verdict. Denis found evidence where it did not exist because because he had ALREADY DECIDED WHAT THE TRUTH WAS BEFORE THE TRIAL BEGAN.

[birdseye]

All this outrage by those who dislike this verdict will be a waste of time. Like all the outrage over Sandy Burglar's lenient sentence and the leaks by the NYT. Nothing will happen. I want to be wrong but it would need a President who has spine. On this one cannot be hopeful.

[PMII]

Jane,

Depends on what?

And what are your thoughts in general concerning the things the jury has been saying?

Thanks

[WA Moore]

Dear Mr. President:

Oh, President Bush, how do I blame thee. Let me count the ways. Or at least a few of them.

It started when you had your press people apologize for the "16 words" from your SOTU address, even though they were and are absolutely true.

You failed to personally take on Joe Wilson with facts to expose him as the fraud he is.

You allowed a special prosecutor to be appointed by your justice department.

You allowed your justice department to then give that prosecutor power to act independently of the justice department, reporting to no one.

You and two other Republican presidents appointed Reggie Walton to judgeships despite the fact he is incompetent as demonstrated by the Libby case. Or maybe he is competent and biased, which is as bad. You appointed Judge Walton to his current position.

You forced members of your administration to waive their 5th Amendment rights.

Most of all, I blame you for allowing Joe Wilson, a con artist, to team up with complicit MSM and your opponents in Congress to damage national security and help our enemies in the Islamist movement.

So here we are. A good man has been railroaded by a runaway prosecutor with the help of a complicit judge and a left wing DC jury. The fault is yours. Righting the wrong will be difficult and politically costly unless the courts do it.

I'd feel better if I sensed you learned any lessons from the errors you made. My fear is that you have not.

Fate served you and our nation well when the Democrats nominated first Al Gore and then John Kerry to oppose you.

Your task now is not to pardon Libby (BTW, please contribute a lot of money to his defense fund; he deserves that from you) - let the legal process continue until all legal options are exhausted. Mr. Libby deserves to be vindicated by the legal system. There will be time for pardon if that fails. Your tasks WRT this case are to get the facts out on the Wilsons and remove the special prosecutor. Oh, you should apologize to Mr. Libby in public for allowing this travesty to occur.

Your bigger tasks are with the war with radical Islam. Fight it aggressively. Fight its opponents in Congress and the media aggressively. Communicate frequently and openly with Americans about the war. Do not yield one inch to either Congress or the courts on the powers and responsibilities of the presidency. Ruthlessly root out and prosecute the leakers and go after traitors in MSM.

You have about 22 months left in office. This is not the time to play the safe political game. Now is the time to lead this nation. Risk impeachment when it is the right thing to do.

You showed unusual strength of will after 9/11. We know you are capable of doing so. You are now acting like trapped prey afraid of even you shadow. Go on the offensive and stay on the offensive for the next 22 months.

Face the fact that Democrat leadership in Congress will never work with you. Play hardball with them. Playing nice does not work. Openly question their judgment when appropriate. Hell, question their motives and voracity in the public forum.

Take on the elements of MSM that undermine the war. When they damage national security call them the traitors they are. Loudly and frequently.

Depending on the poll, your approval rating is between 30% and 40%. It is there because you have failed to lead. Damn it, lead or resign. We did not elect you to play the caged rat.

Do not fear error! Mistakes are part of the human condition; they will occur. Learn from mistakes and vow not to repeat the same ones again. Dwelling excessively on mistakes is like driving a car forward while facing its rear end.

One final point: Forget about any domestic agenda. The Democrat leadership in Congress will oppose anything you favor and support any thing you oppose. They are focused exclusively on the next election. If you happen to agree on something, so much the better.

WA Moore

PS: You should strongly consider ordering the AG to open a cold case investigation of the 1969 murder of Mary Jo Kopechne if Teddy makes more comments about your pardoning Scooter.

[Gabriel]

The White House can start leaking again regarding this matter. That is, if they want to get out behind the curve.

They pledged to remain silent while the investigation and trial proceeded. That's over. So...

It's not going to happen. The White House is beyond this.

[Neo]

This was definently a trial for everyone.

Everyone, from what I've read around says it supports their position, usually not supported by any testimony whatsoever.

Bush and Cheney are responisble, it seems, for every ill besetting this country, except perhaps today's weather, but give 'em time.

[bio mom]

Verner, As did most on the jury. But I agree, he was the ringleader (interesting that he is a journalist. Fits what we have learned to expect lately about them). I begin to understand how the poor blacks in the old South must have felt when exposed to our "justice" system. That is the situation that Libby and any other Republican faces in a considerable part of the country.

I really think I have to leave this site now and turn off the Internet. I truly cannot take this any longer right now.

[Jane]

Depends on what?

It depends on whether the Judge (or appeals Court) decides it was harmless error, or not. It's completely subjective.

[Gabriel]

WA Moore: In hindsight, who the hell cares what Joe Wilson wrote? The White House would have been better served to not read the papers so the "no newspaper" joke continues to get laughs.

A better letter is to implore the US government to actually protect agents on our NOC list rather then let them show up in Who's Who bios and think tank biographies.

[undertook]

'CIA if an employee's spouse undertook an overseas trip.'

Plame went to Montreal with Woolsey before the Niger operation was used against the US government. Canada might want to know why a WMD expert is in Canada. Those are a threat to naional security.

[verner]

bio mom;

Can you imagine if the reverse was true? Say one of the jurors in the Clinton's perjury trial (that of course, never happened--but certainly should have) was a writer for human Events or the Weekly Standard and a registered Republican, and after the guilty verdict, he immediately posted a 10,000 word opus on the trial on, say, lucianne.com or Hotair.com

What do you think the left's reaction would be?

[Jane]

And what are your thoughts in general concerning the things the jury has been saying?

Sadly the jury did what I expected. They walked in with their pre-conceived notions, the fiction-is-fact stuff they read every day in the MSM and decided to blame Libby for the war on terror. (Or should that be "plame Libby for the war on terror", as I first wrote. It's the same thing that everyone at Daily Kos, Firedog lake or NBC tries to do every day of the week.

And in doing so, they continued the steady march toward nazi Germany (or Rome burning) or any number of failed experiments.

And they did it with extreme vigor and glee.

And today I've heard at least two people with no dog in this hunt shrug and say it's no different than what was done to Clinton - as if that makes it okay. (That's the part that makes me know all is lost.)

[Jim E.]

TM wrote: "Libby testified that he never saw that marked-up op ed, and Fitzgerald offered nothing to contradict him."

Libby went so far as to testify that he thought Cheney wrote the comments on the July 6 article only *after* the publication of Novak's July 14 article. That makes precisely zero sense. Besides, the verdict shows that Libby was not deemed as terribly credible by the jury.

Fitz showed that the comments Cheney wrote on the NY Times op-ed became part of the OVP talking points the week of July 6. It makes more sense that Cheney wrote his comments on the article when he read it on July 6 or 7, not on July 14 or 15. And given that Cathie Martin testified that Scooter, rather than Martin, was tasked with much of the Wilson-pushback PR during the week of July 6, it's not super-crazy to think that Libby's lying about not seeing the marked up op-ed.

In short, to say that Fitz "offered nothing" is false. You might not find it compelling, but he offered something.

[Jane]

Some democrat shill on Fox news saying it is absolutely not true that Armitage outed Plame.

Sheesh! Someone lock the doors.

[roanoke]

Collins and MoDo-

>No. And yet. I remember a scathing column about Miller in the New York Times and volunteer that I went to grade school with its author, Maureen Dowd. (Maureen had a crush on my brother Kevin. Her older brother Kevin was something of a hero to my youngest brother Brendan after he showed up to coach his grade school football team one Saturday morning in a convertible, with a gorgeous woman in a black cocktail dress in the front seat, and what appeared to be an empty bottle of champagne on the floor. They'd obviously been up all night. He obviously had game.)

[PMII]

Thanks Jane,

When the left gets to taste this verdict, they will vomit like us. I hope they get to taste it soon.

[verner]

Roanoak--Oh if Denis Collins isn't the biggest name dropping, puke making ass.

This is his big chance to brush up against the big league, and boy is he going for it!!!

[Bob]

Tom: I'm not quite following your point right here, but I think I have a idea what you generally feel about this mess.
I'm not a lawyer, but feel that this fellow Collins meer presence on the jury is means for consideration question to be brought down on the jury itself. He must have fudged his profile as there should have been no way someone in such close proximity to Russert should have even been on the jury. By practically knocking down Fitzgerald to get to a microphone he demonstrated he had an agenda from the beginning. Points go on and on. Nevermind his posting of his notes at the Huffington Post. Perhaps he was a frequent poster there already.
The whole sorted afair was a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a sham based on the lies from a lying liar in Joe Wilson.
Mr. Collins self-politicized his way to jury forman, couldn't wait to find the first open mike and has already published a first draft of a narrative. Nice going, pal. Perhaps you'll find yourself at some of Val and Joe's dinner parties soon and you can get David Corn to forward your book.
Ladies and gentleman, we have our newest Dem darling!

[Cecil Turner]

It started when you had your press people apologize for the "16 words" from your SOTU address, even though they were and are absolutely true.

I agree that's the critical error. But it obviously wasn't planned, and the blame for it belongs to Fleischer's news conference, where--in response to a leading "gotcha" question--he talks himself into it and blows the Administration position to the point where it's indefensible. (Much as he had in response to "imminent threat" questions earlier.) Bush is responsible in the sense of hiring him, but . . .

Libby went so far as to testify that he thought Cheney wrote the comments on the July 6 article only *after* the publication of Novak's July 14 article.

Cite, please.

[SunnyDay]

Personally, I just want the satisfaction of seeing the referral and Fitz affidavit re Miller. I don't think it will make any difference, though.

There is a higher power, and people will answer for what they do (or don't do). Fitz has some serious answering to do, if a fraction of what I've read about him is true.

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

'We decide that Hannah's testimony hurts another aspect of the defense case. Wells spent a lot of time working the argument that Mrs. Wilson was hardly on Libby's radar, much less an important focal point. And here was Hannah saying he had to stay late just to get a minute or two with Libby. So why would Libby set aside three hours of his day (it's on his calendar) to talk with Judith Miller?'

Poor logician. The talk with Miller was mainly about the NIE, not Valerie.

[Jim E.]

It was well-known that Collins was a reporter who used to be a neighbor of Tim Russert. Everyone knew that prior to his being seated on the jury. Colins was also -- and this is a point conveniently ignored in all of this juror hand-wringing around here -- an employee of one of defense's star witnesses, Bob Woodward. None of this was a surprise.

[roanoke]

verner

Oh if Denis Collins isn't the biggest name dropping, puke making ass.

I love that-LOL! Thanks I needed that-gawd this is unbelievable-

Man my memory is shot but how is he making this claim-?

During a meeting at the White House, deputy National Security Adviser Hadley complained that NBC's Andrea Mitchell was working on a story that would help the reputation of the Office of the Vice President only at the expense of the White House. Knowing that Cathie Martin had been given some of that information, Hadley turned the evil eye upon her.

Martin knew she hadn't spoken to Mitchell. She also knew that her boss Libby had. But when asked what Libby did to defend her reputation in that room, she answered. "He lowered his head."

Libby tlked to Mitchell and that was in the testimony?

I'm getting confused.

[Jim E.]

Cecil,

I don't have a page number, but it was in the GJ testimony. Libby didn't say it definitely, but he said he thought it could be a week later. It's a bit of a funny exchange (at least to me -- I didn't listen to that particular part), because then Fitz starts asking about Cheney's desk, and whether it is full of scissored articles from past weeks and months that Cheney re-reads and marks up well after their publication dates. It seemed sort of a sarcastic question. Scooter then says that Cheney's desk is rather neat, and that while he couldn't say for sure what all of the papers were, he thought only 2 or three would be articles.

[Sue]

You're spinning Mr. E. There is no testimony or evidence that Cheney gave the marked-up article to Libby. And that is what this juror clearly said.

[Rick Ballard]

Cecil,

I would think that you're overplaming the mouthpiece a little. Dan Bartlett was the communication director and the communication director is responsible for the message. The flack's job is to present the message. Bartlett appears to be as incompetent as Karen Hughes was competent. He has fulfilled the Peter Principle in all respects and the President's poll standing reflect his mastery of mediocracy. I would note that Cathie Martin's incompetence was sufficient for her to retain a job with the administration as well - she made the lateral shift from the OVP to Deputy Communication Director reporting to --- Bartlett.

Their incompetence must only be exceeded by their servility.

[clarice]

Yes Libby talked to Mitchell at about the same time he said he talked to Russert which is why some of us think he got the 2 conversations scrambled.

[roanoke]

OK I kid you not he calls Matt Cooper hit & run-

Mathew Cooper: Hit and Run

Hahahha that's the title of that section.

Boy somebody here is going to be insulted...

[topsecretk9]

-Posted by: Jim E. | March 07, 2007 at 09:43 AM-

I agree with Mr. E on this point. I also remember the Spy Novel. I did not recall that he was Russert's neighbor though.

I am not surprised by any of his conflicts/associations, I am more embarrassed/appalled the man is a carbon copy of Wilson and his media whoring and rushes to the very neutral HuffPo (I think Gabriel is hinting at this obvious cozyness).

During deliberations someone posted a court room rumor that the reporter was on the guilty war path (they said "holdout"). I have to say that rumor sounds true, and if so, troubling that people covering the trial somehow knew this.

Was Collins "leaking" to reporters?

[roanoke]

clarice-

Then-oh I give up-I don't understand how that could not have been used as a means to get Mitchell to testify.

[Legal Lurker]

Am I the only one who's beginning to think Denis Collins may turn out to be "the gift that keeps on giving"?

[topsecretk9]

Legal Lurker

Why, because it will piss Walton off? Esplain Lucy.

[roanoke]

Legal Lurker-

Oh ya! I'm thinking the same thing butter this turkey up and keep basting.

Someone-Bob Woodward should have a loooooooong taperecorded conversation with him full of flattery and only interupt him with-

"You don't say"..like comments.