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March 20, 2007

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hit and run

FITZ!!!!

Pofarmer

Off topic

The Justice Department last night gave the House and Senate Judiciary committees 3,000 pages of new documents related to the firings, including one e-mail that says Gonzales was "extremely upset" by Senate testimony Feb. 6 from his deputy, Paul J. McNulty. Gonzales felt that "some of the . . . statements were inaccurate," the e-mail says.

So McNulty's statements have caused most of this stink?

hit and run

Re-posting the link tops shared with us in the last thread.

Is Joe ok being referred to as Mr. Plame in the title of the article?

Don't prick his ego, he tends to go flying around like a popped balloon when you do that.

Husband replaces Valerie Plame at lecture

From UI News Services:

Former U.S. Ambassador Joseph Wilson will speak 7:30 p.m. Monday, March 26 in the Main Lounge of the Iowa Memorial Union as part of the University of Iowa Lecture Series. Wilson's wife, former CIA operative Valerie Plame Wilson, was scheduled to speak March 26 but had to cancel.

Wilson and his wife became the center of a national controversy in 2003 when Plame Wilson's identity as a CIA agent was leaked to the media.

Wilson's presentation "The Politics Of Truth: Inside the Lies that Led to War and Betrayed My Wife's CIA Identity" is sponsored by the University Lecture Committee. It is free and open to the public.

According to agency representing Plame Wilson, "She was enthusiastic about speaking at University of Iowa but has been advised by her attorneys that she must first resolve certain pending legal issues arising from recent developments. She looks forward to addressing the University of Iowa community as soon as those legal issues have been resolved."

At the podium, Joseph Wilson will lay out his version of the CIA leak controversy. Drawing from his 2004 memoir, "The Politics of Truth," he will take the audience inside two decades of world politics, from facing down the late Iraqi President Saddam Hussein to White House leaks. A frequent foreign policy commentator for news media outlets worldwide, Wilson also highlights foreign affairs and international relations in a post-9/11 society.

hit and run

At the podium, Joseph Wilson will lay out his version of the CIA leak controversy.


Well, if the CIA stonewalls Plame's book - they can always use Wilson's speech as the basis for a fictional novel.

C. Bowers

Where is the Republican outrage about the lies Valerie spewed in Waxman's hearing and a demand for a perjury investigation and indictment.

Alberto needs to clean house, starting today,of all the non-partisans then go after the NYT and WaPost for their security leaks.

The Administration needs to go on the offensive, big time, right now. Stop cowering. The President should hold a news conference and let the Dems know that Executive Branch Priviledge is in vogue and to knock off the harrassment. Tell them to go spend their time to solve immigration, health care, and social security.

Pofarmer

So far, as I discussed here, there appears to be no evidence that Gonzales knew his testimony to Congress was incorrect or that he was attempting to mislead anyone. However, his top aide Kyle Sampson, who did know that Gonzales' tesimony was incorrect, reportedly may soon testify before Congress. Sampson has not indicated that Gonzales had information inconsistent with what he told Congress, but he has said that other high-level Justice Department officials, who helped prepare the response to Congress, did.

McNulty again?

C. Bowers

BTW watching Val in Waxman's hearing it is easy to see why our "intelligence" on Iraq was less than satisfactory. She was the very definition of Airhead. Pretty sad.

cboldt

-- the public perception of Fitzgerald may be distorted by the reluctance of the media to name him when reporting on his mistakes. --


I suggest circumspection about assigning Fitzgerald the role of villain in the Cowles case
.

-- I wonder how his Holy Land / Islamic charities case is coming --


The statute of limitations has expired on underlying offenses in the leak-tip case
.
High court rules against N.Y. Times in leak case.

In a matter totally unrelated to Fitzgerald, the trial in the USA v. Holy Land Foundation For Relief and Development et al case (Case 3:04-cr-00240, Northern District of Texas) is scheduled to start on July 16, 2007, unless that date has been further pushed out by the Court.

hrtshpdbox

Yeah, Valerie really didn't seem all that intelligent. But, then again, neither does Wilson, or Fitz, or Russert.

hit and run

Tom:
Well, the good new is, I am no longer late with the rest of my life - I am hopelessly late.


Well. If there's anything I can do to help, you let me know.

MORE: Anything at all.

STILL MORE: You name it.

UNRELENTING: I'm here for you.

IN WHICH WE FLOG THE EQUINE: You know where you can reach me.

Jane

The Administration needs to go on the offensive, big time, right now. Stop cowering.

The problem is they don't and won't. And as a result, I'm just about done with them. We can't hold this world up by ourselves.

sylvia

"Open Thread Tuesday, I Guess"

Don't just guess, say it with confidence!

hit and run

Tom:
The Committee believes, however, that it is unfortunate, considering the significant resources available to the CIA, that this was the only option available.


"Significant". As in....they should have gone through about 10,000 names before Joe.

sylvia

"Well, the good new is, I am no longer late with the rest of my life - I am hopelessly late. "

Yes, what does that mean? Sounds very deep. If he were a woman, I'd know but...

sylvia

I want NIE information. What did they unclassify and when did they do it?

sylvia

Okay where are all the posters? I am up early and ready to blog! All day! Well, until I finish my coffee.

Actually I don't think this really is an open post. I think it should be retitled "Fitz, Wilson, and Plame, are Big Fat Idiots".

Tom Maguire

...but [Ms. Plame] has been advised by her attorneys that she must first resolve certain pending legal issues arising from recent developments.

Oh, man, if that were written about any prominent righty, two hundred lefty blogs would be speculating about perjury, obstruction, or corruption charges.

I have no gueses for Ms. Plame, but she does have legal issues about her book deal and her civil suit.

Cboldt and Islamic charities - we went around and around on the statute of limitations a few months back - I thought we eventually agreed that there were still other possible charges in play and the case was still active.

Or did a third party make that point and you never assented?

I remember either (a) I modified my post at your suggestion and then kicked myself, or (b) I meant to modify it but was waved off before I got around to it.

I bet I could have resolved that in the time it took me to type it...

Yes, what does that mean? Sounds very deep.

I had to drive a kid to school. Not even scuba-diving school.

Hit, or Run - LOL.

sylvia

I just made an important realization.

Tom never has sunk to abbreviating "Fitzgerald" in his posts. Nary a "Fitz" among them. That's discipline, alright. Well good to know at least someone is showing the office the respect it deserves.

sylvia

Good wrap up TM. Killed a lot of birds there. I still think there should be some classified document examinations. Any there, there?

sylvia

"since the gingko-bilboa "

Is that the latest Spanish explorer? Isn't he the one who went around the bottom of South America? Or was that Rocky Balboa?

Tom Maguire

OK, that was quick - Jan 30, Previewing Judy Miller.

But even if Miller's possible involvement in the case has ended with the statute of limitations, the larger case goes on, as you note. And when/why did Fitzgerald become un-involved? I see the case you cite as in Texas, but he had led the effort previously, surely.

jerry

The right wing smear against the Wilsons slouches on.

sylvia

I was right, he was an explorer. Saw this about him near the top from a quick google search: "In the same year the explorer Vasco Nuñez de Bilboa was beheaded by his enemies." Wait - uh oh. Better stop drinking the Bilboa.

Tom Maguire

Tom never has sunk to abbreviating "Fitzgerald" in his posts. Nary a "Fitz" among them. That's discipline, alright.

Thanks. I did have a post titled "Fitzi's Dishonor", in tribute to the great Jack Nicholson, and, FWIW, the folks at Real Clear Politics linked it, retitled as "Fitzgerald's Dishonor".

Anyway, I would like to think that is a righty thing.

sylvia

Okay I better stop posting or the squiggly letter box will rear its ugly head...

sylvia

"Anyway, I would like to think that is a righty thing"

Yes, either just plain rightie respect for politeness and formality, or rightie deep down hatred for the man.

hit and run

OT: White House Involved In New Scandal

Not what you think.

File this under, he's too decent a man to hit back as hard as he should against political non-scandals.

(got it from hugh hewitt)

sylvia

So Tom, what do you envision about a life after Plame? What will there be to ponder about? Life will seem so boring, won't it? I remember I went through something similar after OJ. Of course there were always new trials to come our way, so that helped a little.

cboldt

-- Cboldt and Islamic charities - we went around and around on the statute of limitations a few months back - I thought we eventually agreed that there were still other possible charges in play and the case was still active. --

I don't recall any debate on the statute of limitations for the leak investigation where Fitzgerald sought to review NYT telephone records (NYT v. Gonzales), and won that fight.

He may be looking at process charges (the statute of limitations is no doubt past the Dec 3 and Dec 13 limiting dates for charging leak crimes) in the leak investigation, but I rather doubt it. I view the leak investigation as fully closed, with no charges being made.

There is an unrelated Holy Land case is in Texas. In that case, Holy Land is charged with supporting Hamas. There is no statute of limitations question in this case, obviously, as the trial in this case is scheduled for this summer.

sylvia

I don't know about that article Hit (and Run). Not the usual journalism with the lead at the top- you had to read the whooole thing. So the scandal was that the MSM didn't report on Bush's effective visit there I guess, but they were a little round-a-bout about it, I guess for dramatic effect.

sylvia

"FWIW, the folks at Real Clear Politics linked it, retitled as "Fitzgerald's Dishonor"

Wow, what geeks.

(note to self - FWIW)

sylvia

Okay coffee done. Early morning blogging is sloowwwwww. I think it builds up more in the afternoon. So carry on all.

MayBee

sylvia:I want NIE information. What did they unclassify and when did they do it?

If you are interested in the NIE, you should head over to The Next Hurrah or FireDogLake. Emptywheel finds it fascinating.

ErnestAbe

,i>Alberto needs to clean house, starting today

Posted by: C. Bowers | March 20, 2007 at 04:42 AM

ummm... chemmmm... er... um... have you been, ah, reading the newspapers? Seems to me that the purge of non "loyal Bushies" began some time ago.

(Are you related to the real Chris Bowers? He probably would have been aware of the purge.)

Tom Maguire

I view the leak investigation as fully closed, with no charges being made.

OK, I know the DoJ review was from 2005, but are we allowed to hold an opinion about his effort in the leak case, even though it has passed?

Like, was it ever plausible that he had a winner, or was this overly aggressive? Or, why did he let the clock run out - was the defense really that clever in their delaying tactics, id he let it drift, did he essentially abandon it, what?

lurker

Mary Jo White's name sound familiar.

Didn't she work hard against AQ prior to 9/11? As depicted in that movie that aired last September. The movie that Clinton tried so hard to censor?

When Mary Jo White supervised Fitz, he might qualify as a highly ranked attorney. But things may have changed so much afterwards where Fitz no longer deserved a high rank.

That's how "forced rankings" work.

ErnestAbe

I love the charge of nepotism against the Wilsons. This from the Cheney administration, home of perhaps the greatest conflict of interest in American history. Wasn't Cheney the guy tasked with recommending VP to Dubya, and lo and behold, who did he recommend? Himself! Sure, Cheney wasn't acting as an elected official or government employee, but he sure did have a giant size conflict of interest.

Nepotism. A trip to Niger. For no pay. Hmmm.

lurker

AJ Strata believes that McNulty is out and Gonzales is here to stay. He claims that all reporting tonight agrees on that much.

We shall see. The next few weeks will be telling.

hit and run

A trip to Niger. For no pay.


Well. We got what we paid for.

MayBee

You know, that Kevin Drum story reminded me of a Pincus tidbit.
In the Vanity Fair piece about the 16 words, he says that on the eve of the war he was working on a story disputing the idea that Saddam really did have WMD. Woodward noticed, and helped, but it went on something like page a-16.
I wonder who his source was for that article?
Also, were there stories from CIA workers saying Cheney was pressuring them in say...2002? You know, before the CIA was shown to be wrong.

Sue

but has been advised by her attorneys that she must first resolve certain pending legal issues arising from recent developments.

Very interesting. The only recent developments I can think of is her testimony before congress.

Patrick R. Sullivan

'The right wing smear against the Wilsons slouches on.'

Which ignores the origin of, 'the wife sent him'. The idea came out of the CIA, not the OVP or White House.

MayBee

Nepotism. A trip to Niger. For no pay. Hmmm.

I admit it. I have gotten my husband's company to pay to send me on trips for no pay before. I also admit that I don't pretend I was doing the company a favor by accepting their offer.
Why does anybody think Wilson not getting paid make it look legit? The CIA has $$$$$.

MayBee

Which ignores the origin of, 'the wife sent him'.

So true, PRS. It wouldn't even be an issue if he hadn't pretended the OVP had been interested in his trip.

cboldt


Here's where the Dec 3/13 SOL subject came up. I posted heavily in that thread. The "eventual agreement" that other charges were in play was a point of agreement from the start. ... Supreme Court Nixes NY Times

-- are we allowed to hold an opinion about his effort in the leak case, even though it has passed? --

Of course. But this morning, I was making a different point altogether, that being that the premises of your year-old "Fitz made mistakes" post are false premises (Fitz investigated and charged Cowles, Fitz had some relationship to the Holy Land case in Texas where classified data was mistakenly given to the defense). But back to the handling and disposition of the leak case (NYT v. Gonzales) that Fitzgerald did push ...

-- was it ever plausible that he had a winner, or was this overly aggressive? Or, why did he let the clock run out - was the defense really that clever in their delaying tactics, id he let it drift, did he essentially abandon it, what? --

Good questions, lots of room for speculation too. The timing interplay between NYT v. Gonzales (NYT filed for Declaratory Judgement -before- the government compelled testimony) and "In re: Grand Jury Subpoena" (Miller and Cooper must testify) is highly suggestive.

With regard to the NYT v. Gonzales case, Fitzgerald had the longest delay, that from 2002 to 2004 where he didn't push the NYT at all. I don't see the delay as "letting the clock run out," if he had a case built by November 2006, it may have been a matter of good judgement to not charge the leaker - this post asks, "perhaps there is no underlying offense. Perhaps it is legal to leak the fact that a raid is planned. Has anybody checked the statutes for that proposition?"

Which just brings up the whole issue of stifling leaks, and the ongoing dance between the DoJ and the press.

Larry

Would Wilson have been sent to Niger if he wasn't married to a CIA employee? That answer is all you need to consider about whether this was a case of nepotism.

At my age, I take gingko-viagra so I can remember WTF I'm doing.

hit and run

MayBee:
I admit it. I have gotten my husband's company to pay to send me on trips for no pay before.

I travelled to Australia/NZ for a series of training sessions I was leading. My company had a policy that any flight over 8 hours, you could book first or business class. So, we decided to game the system by buying two coach seats - which was still less than half the price of one first class seat. Got approval from a couple steps up the chain.

But, a couple steps higher and to the side (legal) didn't like the idea because of liability reasons.

Good thing they didn't find out until after we were half way across the world.

Not really nepotism, my wife was there as nothing but a tourist. I'll go with boondoggle.

hit and run

Happy First Day of Spring!

Seems so appropriate that it is juxtaposed next to Syl's birthday.

PeterUK

"The Committee believes, however, that it is unfortunate, considering the significant resources available to the CIA, that this was the only option available."

Sounds like "What do they do for the money?"

Pofarmer

AJ Strata believes that McNulty is out and Gonzales is here to stay.

That would be very satisfying on a whole lot of levels.

Charlie (Colorado)

This from the Cheney administration, home of perhaps the greatest conflict of interest in American history. Wasn't Cheney the guy tasked with recommending VP to Dubya, and lo and behold, who did he recommend? Himself!

That is just possibly the most egregiously stupid comment ever made in one paragraph.

MayBee

I love you, Charlie.

clarice feldman

Last night the DoJ dumped hundreds of pp of docs on Congress re the firings. Even the NYT couldn't find a scandal in them, though Fitz and Comey's friend McNulty might be sailing out the door.

PeterUK

" Nepotism. A trip to Niger. For no pay. Hmmm."

Since Wilson was there on his own business also,this was payment in kind.Did he report this to the IRS?

Sue

Everyone wave to Byron:

(((((((((waving))))))))))

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NTJhZWVhZGU1MmIyYjYxYzhhYjg0MGRmYmM1ZTIwNzU=>Corner

Cecil Turner

I love the charge of nepotism against the Wilsons. This from the Cheney administration . . .

Actually, the "nepotism" term appears to originate with Wilson himself, in a Sep 2003 TPM interview:

Secondly, I mean, the notion somehow that this was some nepotism, that I was being sent on an eight-day, all-expense-paid--no salary, mind you--trip to the Sahara Desert.
It's a strawman. Dutifully repeated by Pincus in the Oct 12 WaPo:
The officials wanted to convince the reporters that he had benefited from nepotism in being chosen for the mission.
Fitz tried to imply Libby was the source, asking him repeatedly at the first GJ:
Q. And any indication in that conversation that the Vice President thought this might be sort of nepotism that she worked at the Counterproliferation Division and the envoy went on this trip?
A. I don't recall that.

Q. And is it fair to say that many would think that if Joe Wilson were hired because of nepotism, because of a contact he had at the Agency, that might 'undermine his credibility as an expert?
A. Some people may have taken it that way. That was never -- what I took out of it, the wife working there, Ambassador Wilson's wife working there, because what he did he was perfectly competent to do.

Q. And no discussion that you recall where either one of you implied with Wilson had obtained the assignment to go to Niger as a result of perceived nepotism?
A. No, sir, not that I recall.

He tries again in the second GJ testimony:
Q. In your opinion did you think at that time in, in July, that he had gone as a result of nepotism?
A. I didn't know why he had gone, sir.
According to Judy, he tried again:
Mr. Fitzgerald asked me whether Mr. Libby had mentioned nepotism. I said no.
Fast forward to the trial, and we find only Fleischer supporting the "nepotism" meme. But apparently Libby never said that (and it's in a particularly weak bit of Ari's testimony):
Mr Libby did not use the word nepotism. You believe Mr. Libby told you the name. When you testified before the GJ you pronounced her name two different names, Plamay and Plame? If you had heard it pronounced one way or another you'd have remembered.
We also find that Ari's July 12th conversation was the source for Pincus's use of the word "boondoggle" in his Oct 12th article. But Ari didn't come up with the term, Pincus did:
J You use the word boondoggle.

WP That was my shorthand of the inference he was applying to the trip.

And it's hard to tell exactly when Pincus decided that was good "shorthand," but he first reported on it not too long after Wilson trotted it out. (And we know that particular article weighed heavily on Ari's mind . . . apparently inducing him to seek immunity.)

Nepotism. A trip to Niger. For no pay.

Well, you've got the talking point down. But the actual issue is: no pay, no NDA, no trip report . . . no accountability. And he later writes an OpEd rife with disinformation. Yeah, it stinks all right.

PeterUK

"but has been advised by her attorneys that she must first resolve certain pending legal issues arising from recent developments."

Sealed v Covert.Indictment after -- classified working days.

hit and run

Sue:
Everyone wave to Byron:


OK, so Byron linked to my comment -- but I do want to make sure that topsecretk9 gets the proper attribution as THE SOURCE..........

MayBee

Not really nepotism, my wife was there as nothing but a tourist. I'll go with boondoggle.

Boondoggle sound so exciting, doesn't it? So naughty.

Sue

H&R,

I told you to wave...get busy...offer him a beer.

clarice feldman

Oh.My.God.PUK. Sealed v. Covert!!Of course!
Cecil--where else did boondoggle come from? Armitage, I think.

Kilroy

Mrs. Wilson Goes to Washington
Monday, March 19, 2007 2:26 PM

SPECIAL REPORT:

WASHINGTON -- The testimony of CIA Operative Valerie Plame before an open session of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee was unexpectedly interrupted today when Committee Chairman Henry Waxman, (D-Misty Mountains) called the open session to recess and summoned Plame into a private closed door meeting. Sources close to the House investigation have provided The Kilroy Report with the following transcript of that secret meeting.

(BEGIN TRANSCRIPT)

Plame: Mr. Chairman, first of all I wish to thank you for bringing this meeting behind closed doors. Obviously, much damage has already been done in leaking my true identity. More publicity would only further damage my, or should I say, our mission, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman Waxman: Please, we begses you to calls us Henry and we will call you our preciousss. Preciousss will tells us about the stupid fat little hobbitses?

Plame: Certainly Henry, but first a little background would help in understanding the big picture. My agency has been tasked by uhhhh … let’s just say a greater power with the responsibility of securing knowledge concerning there whereabouts of a certain object. As you may be aware, our track record for securing reliable intelligence these past few decades hasn’t been exactly stellar. It was decided by higher-ups that a different approach was necessary.

Chairman Waxman: Yesss preciousss, beautiful presciousss, go on.

Plame: I was informed by my handler, Mr. White, that since most of our covert agents were known to the enemy, we would recruit a “stooge” to acquire what we needed. A perfect patsy who could recover what we needed without realizing his role. Once the target was identified, I was to get close to him. It was harder than we initially expected and it was finally determined that it would be necessary for me to “marry” the target. Of course, it was all a part of my cover.

Chairman Waxman: Tricksy fat little hobbitses doesn’t deserve our preciousesss.

Plame: As I said, it was all part of being a covert operative. If I may continue: our plan was to send Joe out to find (redacted). Naturally, the agency couldn’t let him know about our plans for (redacted) or for whom we are working. The plan was to convince Joe that he was being sent on an adventure at the behest of “Mr. Gray”. We led him to believe that he was helping Mr. Gray find and destroy it before it fell into “the wrong hands” --- our hands.

Chairman Waxman: We doesn’ts likes the Gray Wizards, does we, my preciousss?

Plame: An understatement. To make a long story short, we send Joe out, he spends three days drinking mead and eating scones, and returns to say he didn’t find anything.

Chairman Waxman: Maybe the nasty and false hobbitses lies. It wants the object for itself it does. Sneaking! Sneaking! Pretty little fly. Why does he cry? Caught in a web. Soon he'll be... eaten.

Plame: Have you met Joe? He couldn't find his ascot with both hands. No, the whole operation was a bust, the years of building a cover, the “marriage”, all of it for nothing. I warned them not to send that idiot but do they listen to Junior Analysts? Nooooo!

Chairman Waxman: Yes, precious, false! They will cheat you, hurt you, LIE. Mustn’t go that way, mustn’t hurt the preciousss.

Plame: Well, the only good thing to come of it is that Mr. Gray found out our whole scheme and leaked it. Now Joe knows the marriage was a sham. Movers are coming this week to pack up my stuff.

Chairman Waxman: Then, then the hobbitses is gone? The preciousss can finally be ours? We wants it, we needs it. Must have the precious. They stole it from us. Sneaky little hobbitses. Wicked, tricksy, false!

Plame: Oh Henry, you're so cute when you're angry. It must have been hard for you to be in the minority.
Chairman Waxman: They cursed us. They cursed us, and drove us away. And we wept, Precious, we wept to be so alone. And we forgot the taste of bread... the sound of trees... the softness of the wind. We even forgot our own name. My Preciousss.

Plame: Oh Henry, you animal! Pick me up at 7:00? Dinner at Michel Richard Citronelle?

Chairman Waxman: How's their fish?

(END TRANSCRIPT)

PeterUK

Since the NYT op-ed, speaking engagements,job as advisor to the Kerry campaign,all derived from Joe Wilson's Niger trip,how was that trip unpaid.Looks more like research to me.

clarice feldman

I['ve been thinking about that Iowa thing since ts posted it.

I think Fenton (Mary McCarthy's husband, too) are behind the speakers bureau which books Wilson's tours. He gets big fees. They are paid out of mandatory student activity fees (something Nader was behind years ago), The deal works like this--parnts pay these fees so leftists can make money touring campuses and filling the students' heads with lies.

I wish someone would work to put an end to this scamarama.

As to why Plame had to back out--I have no idea. But I do hope her lawyers have received word from Bond that her presence is called for to "clarify" matters.

Sue

But I do hope her lawyers have received word from Bond that her presence is called for to "clarify" matters.

Me too.

MayBee

Cheney used the unexciting "junket".

clarice feldman

FIRE has a good piece on the history of mandatory student fees and the law.


http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:kvfkXXsrAE8J:www.thefire.org/pdfs/student-fees.pdf+Mandatory+student+activity+fees+leftist+speakers&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us>Paying to be misled

cathyf
There is an unrelated Holy Land case is in Texas.
There are two Holy Land cases, one in Illinois and one in Texas, but they are not unrelated. They are both about the foundation raising funds that they give to terrorist groups, and so prosecuting the cases requires a lot of the same expertise, and they are prosecuting overlapping groups of people with overlapping witnesses and overlapping evidence.

A couple of years back the Texas office got overwhelmed with other cases, and so they had some people completely unfamiliar with the case handle some of the the discovery work. Those folks screwed up and gave the Holy Land lawyers some highly classified government documents not realizing what they were. One can speculate and say that perhaps if some of the Illinois people had gone down to Texas to fill in rather than using 4-stringers and temps it wouldn't have happened. But that would be rank speculation, of course. It would also be rank speculation to wonder if the person managing the Illinois prosecutors might have thought of doing that if he were not otherwise occupied.

Larry

Clarice, my recollection of Wilson's Florida State U. appearance was that it was paid by the Young Democrats or some such. I shared the FSU contact's email with you at the time. Is that the way you remember it?

cboldt

-- And when/why did Fitzgerald become un-involved? I see the case you cite as in Texas, but he had led the effort previously, surely. --

Fitzgerald had no direct involvement in this charge against Holy Land, or in prosecution of any case against Holy Land, that I can find. I expect he (or the ND of Illinois) was aware of FBI investigatory activity relating to Holy Land's Illinois branch office. That information might be used in the case being prosecuted in Dallas. Also, Fitzgerald very likely had contact with one or another Islamic charity while he was based in New York.

I'd like to see the evidence that prompts you to assert "he had led the effort previously." I'm not clear on what "the effort" comprises.

hit and run

Poking around NRO...........I heart Thomas Sowell.

Yeah, yeah, the obligatory Fitz reference:


Why did special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald put a reporter in jail and ruin a government official's life in an "investigation" of things he already knew, including the fact that it was Richard Armitage who revealed that Joe Wilson's wife worked for the CIA? Perhaps it was the corrupting influence of unbridled power.

But, read the whole thing. What a great set of quick hits.

He ends:


A reader says that he had a T-shirt made that said: "Stop Continental Drift!" It made as much sense as "Stop Global Warming."

When Democrats are criticized, they counterattack. When Republicans are criticized, they apparently believe in "the soft answer which turneth away wrath." In politics, however, a soft answer is like blood in the water that provokes piranhas to more vicious attacks.

At a recent debate over global warming sponsored by National Public Radio, the audience was polled beforehand and was solidly on the side of the hysterical predictions. Afterwards, they switched to a slight majority against those predictions. Don't look for the global-warming crusaders to risk doing any more debates.

Why should they, when they have virtually a monopoly in the media, in schools and colleges, and among politicians?

clarice feldman

Larry, that's the way I recall it. OTOH Florida may have distributed the money out of student activity funds directly to registered groups on campus and allowed them to decide how to use it.

As long as we're into "global warming"
I note that the NSA scientist who says he was "muzzled" has as strong an argument as Wilson who claims the Administration "chilled" his free speech rights.

"A NASA scientist who said the Bush administration muzzled him because of his belief in global warming yesterday acknowledged to Congress that he'd done more than 1,400 on-the-job interviews in recent years.
James Hansen, director of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies, who argues global warming could be catastrophic, said NASA staffers denied his request to do a National Public Radio interview because they didn't want his message to get out.
But Republicans told him the hundreds of other interviews he did belie his broad claim he was being silenced.
"We have over 1,400 opportunities that you've availed yourself to, and yet you call it, you know, being stifled," said Rep. Darrell Issa, California Republican. "

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20070320-120435-3136r.htm

Cecil Turner

Cecil--where else did boondoggle come from? Armitage, I think.

No early uses that I can find. Wilson used it in 2004:

I am told by a member of the press, citing White House sources, was a long harangue against the two of us within the White House walls. Over a period of several months, Libby evidently seized opportunities to rail openly against me as an "asshole playboy" who went on a boondoggle "arranged by his CIA wife"
Almost certainly a reference to Pincus, with whom he appears to have a working relationship.

Errata. My:

    but he first reported on it not too long after Wilson trotted it out.
Above should read:
    but it appears to be of a piece with the "nepotism" meme, and he first reported on it not too long after Wilson trotted it out.

MayBee

If Joe does the speech in Iowa, does that mean Valerie will have to put the twins to bed All By Herself?

clarice feldman

But Pincus denied Libby told him about Wilson--He said it was Ari, Cecil. Is this just more Wilsonfabuloso? I think so.Were it not the case you can be sure Fitz would have found some way to get that into the record.

clarice feldman

MayBee--I guess so. But remember she's good w/ an AK47.

cboldt

-- One can speculate and say that perhaps if some of the Illinois people had gone down to Texas to fill in rather than using 4-stringers and temps it wouldn't have happened. But that would be rank speculation, of course. --

What is the evidence that the error in production (in Texas) had any relationship with the US Attorney's Office in the Northern District of Illinois? Or is that speculation?

Holy Land is (was) a "party" in two cases in the Northern District of Illinois:

1:00-cv-02905 Boim, et al v. Quranic Literacy, et al filed 05/12/00 closed 12/08/04
1:02-cv-03790 George, et al v. Islamic Republic, et al filed 05/28/02 closed 07/17/02

cboldt
What is the evidence that the error in production (in Texas) had any relationship with the US Attorney's Office in the Northern District of Illinois?

That also invites evidence that the Northern District of Illinois was asked to assist pretrial activity in the Northern District of Texas, and turned down the request, or accepted the request then turned the work over to the people who perpetrated the inadvertent production.

MayBee

Is this just more Wilsonfabuloso?
heh. The "playboy" stuff is almost certainly Wilson's own fabulism. He tried to pitch it several times- he even got Waas to run with it a bit- but I've never seen anything of the sort in print (or heard it on tv).

PMII

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=2964509&page=1

"Erasing the Pain of the Past: Scientists Are Developing Drugs That Could Eliminate Traumatic Events From Our Memories"

If this stuff works, I would suggest it be taken before any visit to your local grand jury.

hit and run

"Erasing the Pain of the Past: Scientists Are Developing Drugs That Could Eliminate Traumatic Events From Our Memories"

Oooooh, tequila as a prescription drug and placed under my health benefits...

Appalled Moderate

Of interest to this group, such a drug could make perjury far more difficult to prosecute.

FITZ: Don't you remember....?

LIBBY: Don't remember a thing. I am under a doctor's care...

Cecil Turner

But Pincus denied Libby told him about Wilson--He said it was Ari, Cecil. Is this just more Wilsonfabuloso?

Wilson doesn't claim Libby was Pincus's source:

I am told by a member of the press, citing White House sources
Of course, Ari says he never mentioned Plame to Pincus, and Pincus had other possible sources (including Woodward and Wilson/Plame themselves), so it's impossible to tell how much of this is fantasy. As to the quotes, though, they appear to be made-up.

clarice feldman

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2006/03/anyone_can_make.html#comment-15214638
cboldt.

topsecretk9

Posted by: hit and run | March 20, 2007 at 07:40 AM

Thank you, thank you -- you really like me!

I just want to thank my manager and agent who works tirelessly on my behalf, even shamelessly to get my name in lights --gratis! or for beer!

::wink::

clarice feldman

"Selective amnesia on firing US Attorneys
Clarice Feldman
A common media trick to get editorial opinion into apparent news stories is the use of outside "scholars" to argue the writer's point for him. So, I was not astonished to read this

about the Gonzales kerfuffle in the St Louis Post- Dispatch:

Several former U.S. attorneys and legal scholars say the timing of the Bush administration's replacement of top federal prosecutors is not only atypical, but also a threat to the impartial exercise of justice.


"The sanctity of that position, in terms of that position being immune from any kind of pressure from the administration or Congress, has been the hallmark of the U.S. attorney process. It's been the hallmark of the federal system of justice," said W. Charles Grace, a former U.S. attorney for Illinois' southern district.
The article doesn't say which administration Mr. Grace served in .This is not surprising . When using this trick to squeeze opinion in a news story by using an outside "expert", the writer rarely discloses the expert's bias, usually Democratic. Googling his name, I see that he was a U.S. attorney in 1998 which suggests to me that President Clinton appointed him, and he appointed a lot of them, having fired every single US Attorney when he took office, and 30 more subsequently during his eight year term in office.


And while the number he replaced was astounding, his immediate Democratic predecessor, Jimmy Carter, replaced at least one during the middle of his term of office. Time Magazine reported:


"As Republicans rubbed their hands in glee, the Carter Administration last week found itself trying to explain away a skein of presidential lies. In a letter to Justice Department investigators looking into the firing two weeks ago of Philadelphia's Republican U.S. Attorney, David Marston, Carter last week corrected a misstatement he had made during a nationally televised press conference on Jan. 12. Republican Congressmen saw an opportunity to duplicate last summer's damaging controversy over Bert Lance's financial peccadilloes, and to lay siege again to what was once the President's pride: his credibility."


It was Carter's own fault. During his campaign he rashly declared,


"All federal judges and prosecutors should be appointed strictly on the basis of merit without any consideration of political aspects or influence."


Such appointments are traditionally made on a frankly political basis, and once Carter was ensconced in the Oval Office, that tradition was fully honored. Of the first 65 U.S. Attorneys named by the new Administration, 64 were Democrats. As House Speaker Tip O'Neill put it, "That's the way the System works." And, he might have added, the way Congressmen and Governors want it to work, no matter who is President.
Carter's problem was that he didn't tell the truth - several times - about his role in removing Marston. And it came out that he had been asked to fire Marston by one of the targets of an investigation, Rep. Joshua Eilberg of Pennsylvania. Nevertheless Carter went ahead and fired Marston.


It got worse. Marston had notified a Justice Department official that Eilberg was a target.


For some reason or other, nobody among the Democrats or media seems to remember this incident. And the GOP has not raised it either. That's just lame."
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2007/03/selective_amnesia_on_firing_us.html>Selective Amnesia

DEc

Foley. Foley can't be her boss at CIA Operations because of the Foley (RPCV like Joe) who was assassinated in Jordan. So, no trip planning by Plame. Yes, he was killed by terrorists.

Kilroy

I put Libby Libby Libby
At the Table Table Table
Wanted Cheney Cheney Cheney
Wasn’t Able Able Able

Wilson’s Story Story Story
Was a Fable Fable Fable
But Old man Russert Russert Russert
*Drove A Sable Sable Sable

So I put Libby Libby Libby
At the Table Table Table

http://kilroyreport.townhall.com/

house.gov

Ye, but is the Beldar relatd to the guy on Battle Star Galactica who wants to destroy every thread of human existence. And is Abrams related to the time portal TV Time gate producer and the other Abrams and tanks and are there any other MEs is those shows and Star Trek?

maryrose

Kilroy:
LOL I am delighted to hear about the early demise of McNulty. I would like Gonzales to stay just because of how much Schumer and Leahy want him gone. Someone needs to tell these good old boys that
1. They aren'tthe President.
2. The difference between pleasure of the President and executive privledge and partisan politics and in Schumer's case Conflict of Interest.
I can't wait for election day in 08 when:
1. A republican is again elected President because he is stronger on the WOT
2. Schumer and Rahm again find themselves in the Minority-O happy day

Patrick R. Sullivan

'Over a period of several months, Libby evidently seized opportunities to rail openly against me as an "asshole playboy" who went on a boondoggle "arranged by his CIA wife"'

And, no one testified to anything remotely like that at the trial. There was nothing at all that indicated Valerie was on the radar screen of Libby.

maryrose

Joe Wilson's propensity to lie and exaggerate are well-known on this blog. This is just more of the same old narcissistic Joe-because remember it's always ALL ABOUT HIM!

cboldt

clarice feldman says: -- http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2006/03/anyone_can_make.html#comment-15214638 --

That's a citation to cathyf, one year ago to the day ...

It's the same case -- one charity is in IL, while the other is in TX. Scroll Down to New York Times v. Gonzales

Those aren't the same case. One is an investigation against leakers (NYT v. Gonzales), the other is against Holy Land for providing support to terrorist organizations.

Yes, this is probably a bit of a cheap shot, but on the other hand maybe Fitzgerald's staff familiar with the IL part of the case could have gone to TX to help out, if only Fitzgerald's attention hadn't been taken up with his idle curiosity over a political battle.

I agree it's a bit of a cheap shot to tar Fitzgerald with the inadvertent production.

"Maybe this, maybe that," let's just blame Fitz. Oh, wait, the righty way would fully spell out the name. Let's just blame Fitzgerald. There, that's better.

And while we're at it, let's blame Fitzgerald for the Cowles thing too.

topsecretk9

Yeah, it's pretty laughable all the BS Wilson starts and then attributes to others.

And then he is the worst slimer/bigot himself- gay bashing, anti-semite

PeterUK

you are going to have to do the dance on your own.

topsecretk9

--And while we're at it, let's blame Fitzgerald for the Cowles thing too.--

Well, I am sure Frank blames Fitzgerald for it.

Rick Ballard

It's surprising that Wilson hasn't published a copy of his request for reimbusement for expenses in order to knock down the boondoggle charge. We know that he was far to busy to generate a written report of what he actually did in Niamey but it is extraordinarily doubtful that he forgot to ask for reimbursement.

Unless he somehow forgot to list the reimbursement check on his Schedule C when he filled out his taxes.

Sue

"If you politicize the prosecutors, you politicize everybody in the whole chain of law enforcement," said Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy, D-Vt.

If you politicize a political appointment? For the love of Crazy Ray, PBUH, what the heck is wrong with politicizing a political appointment?

Jane

We need to go after Chuck Schumer, starting with his abduction of that candidate's credit card information. He could take half what we know about him and get someone indicted for it. We really need to return the favor.

Daniel DiRito

See a tongue-in-cheek visual of Alberto & Karl starring in the new White House presentation of "Justice Is Served"...here:

www.thoughttheater.com

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