The Email Is In The Mail (And Other Classic Lies)

I have come to the end of the road - I can not begin to grasp the extent of this White House email debacle.  Well, it was fun when Al Gore had his problems with email, so now we can watch the other side enjoy themselves.

The Anon Lib has a good Karl Rove - Valerie Plame connection:

What's particularly preposterous about this explanation is that the White House's dual email system was almost surely the subject of intense discussion in early 2004, when emails were subpoenaed in connection with the CIA leak investigation. In fact, the seemingly inexplicable delay in turning over the most discussed piece of evidence in that case, Karl Rove's email to Stephen Hadley, makes a lot more sense now that we know Rove does 95% of his email on a separate RNC account. This would also explain Patrick Fitzgerald's apparent assertion that "many emails from Cheney's office at the time of the Plame leak in 2003 have been deleted contrary to White House policy."

Per Dan Froomkin, there is a 2004 tie-in:

Until 2004, all e-mail on RNC accounts was routinely deleted after 30 days. Since 2004, White House staffers using those accounts have been able to save their e-mail indefinitely -- but have also been able to delete whatever they felt like deleting. By comparison, the White House e-mail system preserves absolutely everything forever, in accordance with the Presidential Records Act.

The timing and motivation of the 2004 switch is not explained - the obvious non-Plame guess would be that in 2004 the re-election effort ramped up and folks realized there was a modest records preservation issue in play.  The obvious Plame guess (obviously) is that the inability to comply with the Fitzgerald document requests produced red faces and a flurry of memos.

Clown show.  Expletive deleted clown show.  Someone ought to ask Fitzgerald where his emails came from, not that he will say.

MORE:  I am not seeing any spine-stiffening reaction from the right at Memeorandum, but do feel free to leave a link to anything that might help talk me off the window ledge here.  (No hurry - the rain sort of suits my mood, and I am on the first floor).

GOOD POINT!  Fred Thompson wouldn't lose emails!  Neither would Rudy.  Hillary, OTOH, will lose anything not nailed down.  Hmm, I would feel even better if Bush had campaigned on a promise to maintain deceit and denial in the White House.  Bu we are looking forward!

Comments

[sylvia]

"but do feel free to leave a link to anything that might help talk me off the window ledge here."

No link yet, but DON'T JUMP TOM! We don't want you to get muddy shoes when you land.

[sylvia]

Don't they have a way to read even deleted emails, so shouldn't the RNC make their servers available to Fitz? Or have the RNC people figured out a way to cleanly delete the emails, so there is no trace and no use to look at the server. Probably the latter actually.

Well why not? There is no law that states all emails from all people must be preserved, so Rove can delete any emails he pleases pre-subpoena. In fact, I'm surprised at the number of people who get busted because they keep shady emails and docs around, I'd be shredding those on a regular basis.

[Other Tom]

At this point, I simply throw up my hands and say I hope they did it, and I hope they get away with it.

And as for the retrieval of deleted stuff from the hard drives, I'd advise them to put the hard drives in a trash compacter and hit "Run." Just fight the goddam war and then get the hell out of town.

And include a lenghty chapter in your memoirs about why in the name of bleeding Jesus Christ you picked the illustrious Alberto Gonzales to be the nation's chief law enforcement officer.

[old irish]

Good job Maguire! Haven't been around in a while, and there's a bikini babe on the front page, registered comments, and you're on the right side of an emerging scandal!

What the hell happened?

[clarice]

I thought I read a cople of hours ago they wre going thru the RNC hard drive to retireve anything that might be relevant. Next! Leahy should demand access to the paper trash at the WH just in case there is something there to make his so far unproven case that there was anything wrong in the decision to remove 8 US Attys.
BTW, could any sentient person work under these ROE? I couldn't. I mean I could never even remember how to unlock my safe when I handled classified documents.

[Looking_For_a_Way_out]

Tom M,

Whatever you do, don't jump!

I assume we all agree that, short of throwing all of the infected hard drives and backup media in a trash compactor, then lighting the remains on fire, the deleted emails are most likely recoverable. Isn't this lost email story just an attempt to "obstruct the investigation" as suggested by Kyle Sampson.

[ajacksonian]

The same Dan Froomkin that encourages reporters to break the WaPo's Standards and Ethics? Haven't the faintest idea why anyone would pay attention to him...

[Enlightened]

Senator Leahy doesn't believe White House claim that messages about fired prosecutors are lost. (SFGate)

Hah - I don't believe the FBI lost their notes on Russert either. But I bet Leaky believes it.

What a maroon.

I'm with Other Tom - All hands on deck, man the torpedos and let these dimwits have it. And no matter what, do NOT throw AG under the bus. He is a litany of things not to do - granted.

But just for the thrill of it - deny the dimbeciles what they truly crave...just to see them twisting in the wind is getting to be some damn good sport.

[SunnyDay]

Monica Goodling is the only one with any common sense.

[Looking_For_a_Way_out]

"And no matter what, do NOT throw AG under the bus. He is a litany of things not to do - granted."

Don't worry E. I just watched the Final Report on Watergate. Bush won't make the same mistakes Nixon made. Alberto goes nowhere. Firing him is a political loss, and replacing him with another sycophant would be nearly impossible. The only way Alberto is going out is if the Republicans decide to impeach him. Expect the Democrats to have him in front of their committees for the next year and a half, and get used to defending his performance.

[Nick Kasoff - The Thug Report]

If these people were smart, they'd use anonymous Hotmail accounts, and communicate in secret codes. For example:

bart_simpson@hotmail.com Do we have enough peanuts for the first round of the circus?

lisa_simpson@hotmail.com No, Bart, better talk to Moe about getting another shipment.

Translated:

Rove: Do we have enough dirt on Pelosi to go public yet?

Cheney Not yet. Contact the PI and see if they have anything new.

This would throw a real monkey wrench in those subpoenas.

Nick Kasoff
The Thug Report

[richard mcenroe]

Why would the Democrats attack a member of La Raza?

[Looking_For_a_Way_out]

Monica Goodling is the only one with any common sense.

Posted by: SunnyDay

Think Progress and Time report the Judiciary Committee is considering offering her immunity.

[clarice]

HEH.

Actually, once a friend had stopped in a made a call to a friend about some Indian themed group their kids belonged to where he spoke in some cockamamie code the group to tell him the meeting had been rescheduled.The conversation went something like,"Hi, Chief Thundercloud, the forest gathering won't take place at the teepee on the day of the midnight sun..." Little did we know that Kissinger had ordered the home phone of the guy at the other end tapped. I always wondered what the heck the FBI listener thought that was all about....

[Sara]

It isn't that the rules aren't needed, but that the rules in place in this age of electronics as to what you can do in government buildings and what you have to do from private quarters or campaign headquarters are draconian.

The Congresswoman I worked for commuted everyday between Timonium, Maryland and Washington, DC. She had a van set up as an office and often did morning ride radio interviews or worked on paperwork or made phone calls during the commute time. Back then mobile phones were all bag phones and we finally took her "official" phone, paid for out of her Congressional office funds and marked it with red cloth tape with a big X so as to distinguish it from her other phone which was paid for out of campaign funds. Then to make it even more confusing, she also had her personal phone which she paid for out of her personal funds. Luckily for us, that phone was permanently mounted in the vehicle, so it didn't look like the other two.

With Blackberries and laptops, I don't know how they manage to keep it all straight. I use different email addresses for different functions such as personal chit chat correspondence, business correspondence, or even political rants. My email client sets a default reply from/send from and on more than one occasion I've fired off an email that I meant to send from one address under the default address which I really don't want floating around if I'm ranting or dealing with my bank.

[SunnyDay]

and get used to defending his performance.

excuse me?

[SunnyDay]

Think Progress and Time...

hahahaha!!!

Immunity from what? They want to trap her into "perjury" - there is no immunity.

[Sara]

OT - So it turns out, according to the news, that the bombing in the Green Zone today was carried out by the bodyguard of an Iraqi lawmaker and the lawmaker (I think a female) was one of the first to die. If those hired to guard are willing to strap on suicide bomb vests, it seems a much harder task to make sure these things don't happen again. What's next? A secret service agent strapping on a bomb vest and blowing up the President or one of the Presidential candidates they guard?

[Specter]

I hear that Ms. Goodling has agreed to testify in 24-business hours. LOL - j/k. But maybe she has good info about sealed v. sealed.

[PeterUK.]

Ah,Spector,signed, sealed but not delivered.
Does Leahy have clearance for this stuff anyway>

[Syl]

I just can't get over what a waste this all is.

The Eight Fired Whiners.
Imus vs the sports team.
ANS

The Islamists are laughing at us. This isn't democracy, it's a frat house.

I've never been so ashamed of my country.

[Pollyusa]

Someone ought to ask Fitzgerald where his emails came from, not that he will say

Someone did

First, I called Randy Samborn to see if he'd comment about the discovere 250 emails. I gave him an out to say, "it's grand jury information, so I can't say one way or another." Which is what I thought he'd say. Instead, he said, "there's nothing public, so I can't say." Take that for what you will. TNH 4/11/07

[SunnyDay]

It's eeeeeeeeevil Rooooooooooooove!! Indictments forthcoming. They haven't found anything wrong yet but that doesn't matter, we know there's a crime because they're all criminals. Political criminals.

[PeterUK.]

Blame the Boomers

[Lew Clark]

I think they have a winner. Notice their proof of wrong doing is always contained in "missing information". Since there is an infinite amount of "missing information" in the universe as opposed to a finite amount of not missing information, they can prove anything. Since everything is not only possible in a infinite set of data but is 100% probable.

[clarice]

Exactly,Lew.Somewhere Over the Rainbow lies the damning information..Oh, and it's always just like Watergate.

[Neo]

The real irony here is that while Leaky is demanding e-mails that were off the official government e-mail system due to restrictions of the Hatch Act, Waxwoman is busy pushing a Hatch Act infraction involving the showing of a "Karl Rove generated" PowerPoint presentation to GAO employees.

Or is that GSA employees ?

[lurker9876]

Mac Ranger thinks "Blatant democrat hypocrisy on WH emails"

and I agree. I'm so sick of Waxman and Leahy. Big Lizards now say:

Has AP gone wobbly?

They appear to have inadvertently blurted out the truth... that the 110th Congress' Democratic majority wants to get rid of Attorney General Alberto Gonzales -- for no reason other than to show that they can. After the forced resignation of Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, the Democrats hunger for another scalp, by any means necessary:

It all adds up to relentless pressure on an administration that for six years of Bush's tenure operated with virtually no oversight from the Republican-controlled Congress.

No longer.

Democrats don't have - or apparently need - evidence of wrongdoing to shake Gonzales' hold on his job or challenge the White House's defense of its internal deliberations.

But the odd thing is... AP doesn't appear to see anything wrong with this.

[lurker9876]

Mac Ranger thinks "Blatant democrat hypocrisy on WH emails"

and I agree. I'm so sick of Waxman and Leahy. Big Lizards now say:

Has AP gone wobbly?

They appear to have inadvertently blurted out the truth... that the 110th Congress' Democratic majority wants to get rid of Attorney General Alberto Gonzales -- for no reason other than to show that they can. After the forced resignation of Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, the Democrats hunger for another scalp, by any means necessary:

It all adds up to relentless pressure on an administration that for six years of Bush's tenure operated with virtually no oversight from the Republican-controlled Congress.

No longer.

Democrats don't have - or apparently need - evidence of wrongdoing to shake Gonzales' hold on his job or challenge the White House's defense of its internal deliberations.

But the odd thing is... AP doesn't appear to see anything wrong with this.

[lurker9876]

I can't believe that Minnesota college aren't allowing Christians their say but giving the Muslims their own daily prayer rooms.

Minnesota college to install facilities for Muslim daily prayers

[lurker9876]

Now we see Pelosi and Reid capitulating by reluctantly agreeing to meet with Bush.

Unfortunately, I doubt that much, if any, will be done. Nothing will come about of it.

[lurker9876]

Hi, gang,

Why is Charles Schumer on the Board of Advisors of Foundation for Defense of Democracies?

[topsecretk9]

-Posted by: Neo | April 12, 2007 at 10:14 PM-

Exactly. I predict the Democrats will as usual regret this particular witchhunt ... can we please see the Townhouse listserv (and the various splinters - roach motel serv - that exist or came into existence when Townhouse was exposed?)- whose on the Townhouse list and the emails too please?

[topsecretk9]

Are the DNC emails archived in good fashion? DLC? Heck, the congressional Dem's email - we know they are in constant communiqué with, taking their marching orders from and coordinating with non-profits thanks to Manny...are non-profits legally allowed to do this? CREW and Conyers emails?

[Cecil Turner]

"As a result, personnel working on behalf of the EOP [Executive Office of the President] are expected to only use government-provided e-mail services for all official communication."

Maybe I'm missing something here, but isn't it illegal to use government facilities (including e-mail) for purely political activities? Ahhh, thought so. So what we're sayin' here, is that political types have to have two sets of e-mail accounts, but they can only use the one for "official" mail, and the other for "political" mail. And some folks may have gotten blurry with their definitions and used the wrong accounts at times? Horrors!

There might be an issue if there were actually some evidence of malfeasance. But it looks a lot more like another digfest looking for someone who can't remember something non-essential to make political hay or trump up a perjury/obstruction charge. And the White House oughta tell Waxman they aren't going to play.

[clarice]

Yes, another digfest..When you have nothing, pound the table and suggest (a) something not available holds the key and (b) it's just like Watergate.
LOL

[Barry]

And some folks may have gotten blurry with their definitions and used the wrong accounts at times? Horrors!

No kidding. I have a business account and two personal accounts. I've got business mail in my personal accounts and personal mail in my business account. And even when you get it all straight, someone you accidently emailed from your business account keeps using that address for personal mail,and etc.

I doubt there is anything there, but wouldn't you just *love* to get hold of "political" email to peruse? I know I would like to look through Waxmans email. Well, maybe not, it might look like the postings at DU or Kos, nauseating reading.

[abwtf]

Since the Presidential Record law apparently wants things “adequately documented” it looks like another case of relying on the appearance of impropriety. If Rove sends an email to Bush "Wanna grab some tacos" there's no harm in deleting it. And if Rove emails Bush "Some of the US Attorneys should be replaced" there's no harm in deleting that as long as the final decision is "adequately documented".

[Other Tom]

Not quite, Clarice: per John Dean, everything is WORSE than Watergate.

[cathyf]

I mean I could never even remember how to unlock my safe when I handled classified documents.

Did you ever read Feynman's memoirs of the Manhatten Project? He would go into people's offices and stand in front of their safes while talking to them. All the while, he had his hands behind his back cracking the safe (by touch!)

One time the lab director at Oak Ridge was incommunicado and the staff desperately needed something in the safe. They called Feynman in Los Alamos to ask him if he had the combination.

He did.

[clarice]

I don't recall reading that, but Feynman certainly was a genius.

I had a trick way of recording the combination. We weren't supposed to do it, but with my bad memory I had to.

Still, I came back from a long vacation and it didn't work. I kept trying and ...nothing. Finally, after wasting a lot of time, I asked around and after talking to a lot of people someone remembered that while I was away DoJ had decided it was time to change all the combinations and they'd forgotten to tell me or give me the new number.

[DEMO]

CBS fires Don Imus from radio show

We refrain from editorializing our commentators," said an CBS executive. "and, generally let them do as they wish no matter how outrageous it may be. In fact, the more outrageous something is, the more listeners a commentator will attract. And generally, nothing is too taboo for a shock jock. But, in this case when our major ad buyers began canceling contracts we just felt we had to do something. Doing the right thing or wrong thing is one aspect, but when things begin to affect the bottom line it is another matter entirely and then it's no choice. We knew then he'd stepped over the line."

"After this episode we will begin taping our shows before airing them." he said.

[cathyf]

The details of Feynman's safe-cracking prowess are actually sort of relevant. The military trained people that after they opened their safe, they should give the dial a spin so that it would end up in a random place. Otherwise, you could just look at the safe and know the last number of the combination still there on the dial. The particular safes that the army bought had a bug in the design that if the dial had not been moved since the safe opened, then you could slowly rotate it back and when it got to the second number it would "click" in a way you could feel. Ok, so now Feynman had two of the three numbers. He would just stand there trying all of the possibilities to get the first number.

All because even though everyone had been told over and over to spin the dial, nobody did. In fact the reason that Feynman broke into people's safes was to embarrass them into doing what they were supposed to do. The problem is as old as the hills...

[clarice]

Today, spies just grab desk top computers.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/04/shoplifting_secrets.html

[DEMO]

Lieberman Stands Behind Imus

"We are lowering the standards of what is acceptable in our society and we are sending a message to our children," he said. He denounced an "acceptance of rude language, foul imagery and gross behavior in the entertainment mainstream." - Joe Lieberman

[Jane]

Good Morning! So whatever happened to Difi and her little misappropriations gig?

I think people are ignoring Congress. I actually think this AG scandel has no longer more than a big yawn for most people.

[hit and run]

Barry:
I have a business account and two personal accounts. I've got business mail in my personal accounts and personal mail in my business account. And even when you get it all straight, someone you accidently emailed from your business account keeps using that address for personal mail,and etc.

Yeah, tell me about it. Here at work, they block you from getting to internet email.

So -- and I've never said this before but now it seems relevant -- all you ladies who keep emailing those pics of yourself, you might as well stop. I can't get the email here at work, and I sure as heck am not going to open those pics at home. Unfortunately, I have to simply delete them.

[clarice]

Now you tell me!

[Pofarmer]

Does anybody wanna remind me what laws were ostensibly broken to demand the subpoenoeing of all these people and documents?

I mean, besides "Governing while Republican".

[Jane]

You're up early Clarice! Nice to see you at this hour.