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May 26, 2007

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windansea

Jeff could explain this I am sure :)

ordi

TM

Like I mentioned in the thread below, Byron posted 4 posts on Sen Bonds supplemental. Here are the links to the other 3.

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=Y2FkNzVjMWFhNTUwNGQxNDQzYmQ2MDI0Y2RlOTZhOWM=>Fact-Checking Valerie Plame Wilson, Pt. 2

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NDhkOTBhNjhkMTQ4ZDdmMzdjODY5MDlhYjMzNDRmODA=>Fact-Checking Valerie Plame Wilson, Pt. 3

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZWNiZjg5N2MyNTMwNjA3MGQ3NzhkM2IxZDU2ZTIyNGI=>Fact-Checking Valerie Plame Wilson, Pt. 4

cathyf

From Pt 4:

Mrs. Wilson told the CIA Inspector General that she suggested her husband for the trip, she told our committee staff that she could not remember whether she did or her boss did, and told the House committee, emphatically, that she did not suggest him.
Well, duh! Didn't we learn from the Libby trial that people's memories get better with passage of time?

(Sheesh, do we have to explain everything to these people?!?)

Roger

Plame is in trouble if they check the files back to 93.'


Some Spam:

Fitzgerald's job was to prosecute Plame. He is a criminal conspiracy investigator, how bad CIA agents are prosecuted. Fitz passed while he was prosecuting there was criminal conspiracy to commit murder of other operations officer after Plame confirmed who she was in 'Vanity Fair.' Plame's answer to the appointment was to file civil law suits because Fitz was appointed.

Fitz passed on traditionally AG work and now the AGs are all in trouble. They are in trouble because they didn't follow new legislation regarding intelligence activities that gave the AG and AGs more latitude in prosecution. The legislation was directly related to Plame and was done at the time the criminal conspiracy to commit murder happened. Specter and others were covering her for what happened and what she did and the AGs apparently were unaware.


Comey appointing his close friend to prosecute Plame was a mistake to dems and CIA, so although they will allow him to be AG, it is because he lost in his appointment of a close friend who should not do his job because he is not for persecuting government employees. Fitz went to Harvard like allot of others and how he views intelligence identities legislation and operations from the intelligence committee and funding can be found in his pal, Sarah Chayes. She was financed heavily through Mercy Corps and other NGOs created with Karzai, who she later denounced after paying Taliban. USAID funding (CIA) was directly from the intelligence committee and Shays. They were all PCs. Fitz just passes because he sees it as political and okay. Reality is that all this needed to be investigated and wasn't, probably because Fitz passed on criminal conspiracy charges. Harvard, Chayes, Fitz, Plame, Shays, and politics. Fitz views intelligence as this and not to be prosecuted because of all the deals made by politicians, CIA, universities and DIA informants. Once he passed on criminal conspiracy charges, the intelligence community had lost it's abililty to prosecute bad CIA agents. CIA's answer, using retired Air Force personnel who became Directors at CIA, was to move all the CIA analysts to DoD, NSA and Tenet's excuse for doubling the size of CIA with CIA linguist, analysts. So, like most retired CIA gents like Plame, Larry johnson, Jim Marcowski, etc. the US government has to take care of CIA and its legacy. Plame's dad was Air Force (NSA). Joe's dad was a diplomat in Spain(CIA). It's a giant legacy that everyone in DoD must take care of because they have served, but the real answer is Plame was a bad agent and that's what DoD had to buy form Congress.

New Congressional agencies are being created - Geospacial Intelligence Agency and Department of Energy. Congress probably plans to sell these off to DoD when they are done and use the employees and financing to get more control of DoD.


The CIA was already selling the covert CIA WMD training program for all operations officers at SU universities as the inspectors began. From here, they had already decided to write off the program before the war and use these type of reports to avoid the conflict. This was pressure on the President not to attack and the reports after the leak of the covert CIA WMD program where doen to affect policy, not invade.
Plame, a CIA WMD specialist and operations officer in Iraq, shows up after the war to protest. Her husband joined in. Plame was a team effor, as can be told from Larry Johnson who verified her training back to the ‘farm’ and Jim Marcowski. Plame and CIA are just pay back for going against CIA advice after the covert CIA WMD program was leaked during the inspections. since this happened CIA analysts have moved to DoD NSA as liguists that Tenet hired at CIA. The real answer is Bush wouldn’t listen to CIA after their covert CIA WMD training program was leaked, something they blame Rice and her degree for, and CIA is getting pay back through Plame and Joe.
The lab run by Dr.WMD in Iraq was closed and the the doctor in charge freed the day Plame posed for ‘Vanity Fair.’ Confused?

megapotamus

Yet Plame/Wilson are STILL the structural foundation for the entire "BUSH LIED!" crap that fuels half this nation in drooling, savage hatred of anyone to the right of Walter Mondale (and Fritz probably ain't too safe). Well, as a pretty okay cat once said, facts are stubborn things. In this age of electrons the repeated and repeatedly identified lies of this pair of affluent lunatics are also facts, as are the high-piled mountains of repudiation to their assertions. Lies, lies and lies upon lies. I have to believe that even the pukes we encounter screaming in the streets and drumming on buckets are not QUITE impervious to reality or not permantently so. Some of 'em, anyhow. Jeez.

cathyf

Hey, off topic, but our incomparable H&R got the last word on today's Best of the Web, one of his brilliant riffs on Silky Pony. Congrats, Jeff!

SMGalbraith

But who typed the memo? Was it Plame? Or someone else?

Who? When? Was English his or her first language? Did Plame sign off on the memo? Or was it forwarded without her knowledge?

How about any followup memos? Where are they? I'm sure there were. And who received the memo? What did they think?

Petiffog Jeff

Sara

The final solution: FROGMARCH the b!tch.

Jane

I predict that Plame will immediately be prosecuted for perjury.

(On a more realistic note, it will make for fun cross exam in the civil case.)

Dale in Atlanta

Ordi: you DID beat me to it; I was so eager to post the link; didn't even see your post until AFTER!

Tom, how about a h/t for Ordi?

boris

H&R beat y'all.

I predict that Plame will immediately be prosecuted for perjury.

Her stories might not be foolishly consistent, but they covered the possible things each group wanted to hear. In dimoratland that's even better than actual accurate facts. The gurl's homefree.

Dale in Atlanta

roger: what the HELL are you talking about???

Are you on CRACK??

ordi

Dale,

I am not concerned about H/T, but thanks! I just wanted the Plameologist on this site to know there was 4 posts by Byron. :)

clarice

Gonna dash of to see my darling Jeff's latest.

In the meantime, I'd be curious to know what this bit from Plame's memo referred to:
"So where do I fit in? As you may recall, [redacted] of CP/[office 2] recently approached my husband to possibly use his contacts in Niger to investigate [a separate Niger matter]. After many fits and starts, [redacted] finally advised that the station wished to pursue this with liaison. My husband is willing to help, if it makes sense, but no problem if not. End of story"


As to Brian Ross's latest leak on Iran. I find it interesting that the reports are that the WH and CIA knew a week ago he was running with it and made no move to stop him:(1) are they incompetent;(2) was the story deliberate disinfo, or (3) was the story correct and the lesson learned that it is better to let them run with it and let the enemy stew over whether it was real or memorex.(In the meantime Mac reported we have agents at risk and operations cancelled because of the leak--more Memorex?)

Enlightened

From Clarice's above:

"After many fits and starts, [redacted] finally advised that the station wished to pursue this with liaison."

So Joe was not the original "go to guy", but rather a "low level type" that his wife tried to push through.

Does this sound like someone else (Liason) checked the story at the (behest)of the Station prior to what Joey did not find?

Who is this Liason?

And "fits and starts" - does that mean Val tried to push Joey through more than once, got rejected so went to a higher up?

And what is the Other Niger Matter? Forgeries??????

cathyf

Interesting catch, clarice. So here's a totally off-the-wall piece of speculation: Joe's "separate Niger matter" was checking out reports that Iran was buying yellowcake from Niger/Congo/etc. And he confirmed that they were, and has successfully hid this for 4 years, since it is disasterous to the "narrative" demanded by his politics...

How's that for speculation?

PatrickR

'Mrs. Wilson told the [Senate] committee staff, "I honestly do not recall if I suggested it or my boss, who knew my husband and what he had done for us previously, my boss at the time being the head of the whole task force, during a brainstorming session suggested well, what about your husband, Ambassador Wilson, would he be willing to consider this." When asked specifically if she remembered whether she suggested her husband's name, she said "I honestly do not."'

And, as cathyf noted, her memory improved for Waxman's committee. Seems a lot more cut and dried perjury than anything Scooter Libby testified to.

Enlightened

How many want to bet that ValJoe did NOT want the "Separate Niger Matter" to ever surface?

And where is gasbag Scary Larry?

I think we can count the hours till he starts barking in Val' defense-

Walter

Congrats Jeff!

I hope you still find time for us now that you've been un discovered.

Fitzgerald filed the prosecution's sentencing brief today. He wants three years.

Walter

Is there a reason that http://www.scooterlibby.org/ is no longer work-safe? Or, for that matter, Libby related?

clarice

What's "recently"? What's the "other matter"? Who pushed him then> (Val conceded she pushed him earlier on a trip I believe in 2001 to Niger he undertook for the Agency.

She pushed him three times in 2 years? What does CP2 (counter proliferation)2 unit cover? Who was the liaison who was sent on that occasion?
Why did the station handle that itself and not this third trip?

So many questions and only two serial liars are talking publicly about these trips.

clarice

Walter, I think the site has been moved. I believe the new one is scooterlibby.com

Walter

Thanks Clarice.

TM, PLEASE update the link on the right hand of the page. Lest someone make an inadvertant "adult" connection.

I already have to explain too many sites in my browser's history.

Jane

I have to admit, 3 years is better than I expected them to ask for.

Enlightened

"So many questions and only two serial liars are talking publicly about these trips."

Bam!

That's it in a nutshell.

Shorter Jeff: So? Scooter was convicted for lying to a grand jury about a lying liar who lied about WMD.

Hmmm, let me weigh the greater of two evils.


clarice

Judge Walton was just named to the FISA Court. I suppose if he doesn't order Libby garrotted on the spot the press will argue that's because he seeks political favor. I can see from the NYT they are already bitching that they have a right to see the letters of support he received, and are critical that some said Fitz went overboard. (Of course, when the press was trying to quash the subpoenas they, too, said the case was a big nothing and that Wilson had disclosed Plame's identity long before anyone in the Administration had done so.)
He's asking a 2 1/2 to 3 year sentence and no bail.
I refuse to predict any more as this is the stupidest case I can recall and I have yet to see anyone with the power to stop it do so.

Walter

"nolo" at Firedoglake has a version of the filing up.

Talk about sites that you have to explain visiting...

Enlightened

Well Clarice, ya never know.

Perhaps the missing FBI Pumpkinhead notes turn up - in CIA's vault.

Stranger things have happened. Hic.

It's Friday, countdown to Martiniland has commenced.

Enlightened

Oh good gawd almighty. That filing is just about the most preposterous piece of crap I've ever witnessed.

It's almost better than the legendary sealed v sealed.

Jane

Well I for one would be happy to see J. Walton render a little payback. Given the fact that he let this mess get where it is, its not like he would be compromising much of anything.

Jeff Dobbs

Thanks Cathy, et al for pointing to and congrating for the BOTW cite. I wouldn't have seen it 'til Tuesday otherwise (I always lag a day behind on those and with the holiday, wouldn't have checked in til then).

Oh shoot. Gotta run........getting yelled at......going to a baseball game....c-ya soon.....or Tuesday........

(wait, did my name actually change? hehehehehehehehe)

Enlightened

Could Walton give say, 5 years - probation?

Can you imagine the involuntary rush of air through those cranial cavities?

I guess air rushing through nothing is better than pumpkinseeds cloggin up the works.

topsecretk9

WALTER

--I already have to explain too many sites in my browser's history.--

Try this!

Sara

Things that make you want to gag.

Fox News just reported that the prosecution asked for 36 months for Libby because he has failed to show any remorse.

topsecretk9

--interesting catch, clarice. So here's a totally off-the-wall piece of speculation: Joe's "separate Niger matter" was checking out reports that Iran was buying yellowcake from Niger/Congo/etc. And he confirmed that they were, and has successfully hid this for 4 years, since it is disasterous to the "narrative" demanded by his politics...

How's that for speculation?

Posted by: cathyf | May 25, 2007 at 05:11 PM------

Well, since Joe totally lied in public about his confirming report-debrief at his house - it's interesting and fits his template.

I thought it was interesting how she said So where do I fit in? ...End of story.

That sounds like she was being pressed prior to Feb. 12th why she was involved in her husbands gigs and she was trying to deflect it -

Also, I was somewhat embarrassed by the agency's sloppy work last go-round

Did they try to send someone to Niger on this matter before? Or is she talking about Joe's many previous trips?

And

More evidence of that is provided in a cable Senate investigators obtained, a cable written by Valerie Plame Wilson and “sent overseas requesting concurrence with Ambassador Wilson’s travel to Niger,” in the words of Sen. Bond’s additional views. In the cable, Mrs. Wilson wrote that “both State and DOD have requested additional clarification” on the Niger matter.

This seems to run contrary to what we've learned too. Well, we know the State Department voiced at the meeting the trip idea was really dumb and it was Joe pushing his rationale why he should go.

Joe retired -- I wish someone would ask if he took voluntary retirement buyout the gov't was handing out at the time- if he did, he was barred from working for the Government for 5 years or he had to pay the money back. And since he was fairly young when he retired, I have to think he did.

topsecretk9

OH...wanted to add

Also, I was somewhat embarrassed by the agency's sloppy work last go-round

Well, I was somewhat embarrassed by the agency's sloppy on THIS go-round too!

Enlightened

Other things to make me gag:

Why didn't Bond, or someone else, get this info out there before Valerie Plame made millions posing as an outed agent?

I'm glad it's coming out, we all knew she was a liar just like her husband.

I'm just frosted this stupid sham has cost so much money, has cost Scooter Libby life as he knew it, has lined the pockets of abject liars, and has deified this pathetic woman.

topsecretk9

Enlight

--Why didn't Bond, or someone else, get this info out there before Valerie Plame made millions posing as an outed agent?--

ME TOO! Nothing I've seen needed to be shrouded in secrecy and I just have to wonder why the hell this wasn't made public a long time ago?

Cecil Turner

I'd like to take this opportunity to crow a bit, because we went round and round over this earlier. My contention:

It's far more likely the ongoing dissension among CIA (and DIA and INR) analysts provided the initial impetus for Wilson's mission (especially since you'd expect a report dated the 12th would normally be briefed on the morning of the 13th).
The new version of the memo (and subsequent dating of the VP's request) supports that, but my favorite part of the new report (summarized in Byron's piece), is Val's Feb 13 cable:
"both State and DOD have requested additional clarification [of the Niger-Iraq uranium report] and indeed, the vice president's office just asked for background information . . ."
Again, this was something that could be inferred from earlier reports:
Alternate explanation: the State and Defense inquiries provided the actual impetus, the VP's question was tacked on.
. . . but it's nice to see it confirmed.

Cecil Turner

I just have to wonder why the hell this wasn't made public a long time ago?

Apparently they didn't have the timeline until recently (Sen Bond, new report, p. 208):

This is significant because the CIA originally told the Committee, and Ambassador and Mrs Wilson have stated publicly, that it was a question from the Vice President that prompted CIA's Counterproliferation Division (CIA/CPD) to discuss ways to obtain additional information about the reporting. However, the Committee now knows, based on information released during the Scooter Libby trial, that the Vice President had not even asked about the Iraq-Niger uranium deal until the following day.

clarice

Cecil, I am often wrong. We know Mr. 70%'s record, but you are NEVER wrong.

What was going on in Niger(besides his personal interests) that Val pushed that he be sent THREE Times in 2 years? And maybe this explains why DoS was so reluctant about this thrid trip and why Joe was limited as to who he could talk to and what he could ask on the third trip?

topsecretk9
One area of inquiry which now seems to be unresolved is why Mrs. Wilson provided different testimony to the CIA Inspector General, our committee staff, and the House committee on Oversight and Government Reform. The account of a discussion among three colleagues about a phone call from the vice president is new to us, and apparently new to the CIA which has been unable to find the alleged participants. Still, it is a story worth exploring. For that reason, Senator Bond has written to the CIA seeking interviews with the individuals involved, including a re-interview with Mrs. Wilson. We hope that these witnesses will enable us to tie up these loose ends once and for all.
Other Tom

I'm surprised to see this amount of enthusiasm over this item. Let me tell you, based on more than six years experience with G. W. Bush and too many with Alberto Gonzales, that absolutely nothing--nothing whatsoever--will come of this. There will be no prosecution, and indeed there will be no investigation and no referral of any kind. If asked about it at a presser, Bush will say nothing, and Gonzales is so pathetic that he won't know what the question means and would be afraid to answer if he did. Sorry, but that's where we are today.

Enlightened

Well, I'm just a poo-flinger according to most folks, and I lay no claims to knowing much about anything BUT -

It is patently obvious that the Wilson Plames were in dire need of covering up their "other" Niger activities as soon as the OVP started sniffing around.

Almost immediately the pushback from their lying mouths started, and what is one of the most common traits of crooks and liars - the old bait and switch.

OVP was about to stumble into their liars den and had to be stopped. How better to stop them than to infer OVP is a criminal?

They came damn close to criminalizing the VP, and perhaps could have netted the POTUS had not Scooter Libby smelled a rat, and look where it got him.

You all know whatever Joe did in Niger at the behest of his wife will never see the light of day. It's not just the Joe and Val show. There must be a bigger shark in that fish tank.

Sara

The meat of the Plame memo:

my husband has good relations with both the PM and the former minister of mines, not to mention lots of French contacts, both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity.

And can someone say what CP/[office 2] is? Is this one of their desks in another agency?

Enlightened

Well Sara, your meaty portion would seem to negate Joe Wilson having ever checked "this sort of activity" previously.

So, can we assume JW's "Separate Niger Matters" are not uranium related? Had he checked on Iraq or Iran and uranium/Niger, then shouldn't her statement have been-

"My husband has good relations with both the PM and the former minister of mines, not to mention lots of French contacts, and he has checked this sort of activity previously"??????

So what else goes on/went on in Niger that is/was so super secretive, that it would scare the crap out of Val and Joe if anyone outside the CIA found out, particularly Dick Cheney?

Scare them enough to lie so heinously a man is facing prison, and our country's national security has been compromised?


Enlightened

I'm going off the moonbat deep end but - what if the CIA was purchasing Niger uranium, or was aware of Niger uranium purchases, and Joe was the broker?

Sara

A.Q.Khan

PeterUK.

Enlightened,
There have been numerous drugs stings, by both the Customs and the police which have gone badly wrong,sometimes hilariously so,what if the CIA was running a uranium sting and got stung?
They can't send one of their own,the debriefing needs to be off the records,perhaps to keep the matter at department level,after all running an operation like this then suddenly finding themselves in the middle of a war,somewhat embarrassing,bound to create a scandal,head would roll.
What better way to run interference than sending someones spouse,throw the blame onto the unsuspecting administration.Creating scandals involving those who might accuse you is an age old ploy,particularly beloved of the left.

Enlightened

Yep, so conversely we can say perhaps Val lied in her memo as well, by suggesting her husband could shed light on this activity by going to Niger, when in fact he already knew about this activity - and as Cathyf pointed out previously - Joe knew about Iran and Niger uranium, and perhaps was brokering deals with AQ Khan, hence a serious need to keep the OVP far away from Niger. Hence the bullshit Niger trip Joe took.

Enlightened

This a rather dumb question in light of the last 5 years and all - but has anyone ever proven that Joe Wilson physically arrived in Niger?

I know, receipts etc..dontcha think if Niger was such a hotbed of activity there would be some intel surveillance of the players? Did he produce photos of himself sipping tea?

Maybeex

You can tell a habitual liar by the fact that they lie about things they don't even need to lie about.

That letter discusses someone else approaching Joe to go for another matter, over a period of time, and he was willing.
So why did he make up details about not wanting to go (for this matter) because his wife didn't want to be home alone with the twins?

Also, I'm with TS in being curious about this:
To be frank with you, I was somewhat embarrassed by the agency's sloppy work last go-round, and I am hesitant to suggest anything again.

Is she referring to the last go-round when he went? The agency doing sloppy work?

Enlightened

Ok, so maybe this is the STATION Plame refers to?

" U.S. ambassador to Niger, Barbro Owens-Kirkpatrick, who told him that she had personally “debunked” the Iraqi reports from her air-conditioned perch in the U.S. embassy"

So she must also be the Liason? Or is she the Liason and someone/some other entity is the Station?

Another stupid question: Apparently Joe did not telephone BO-K prior to departure and ask her about the reports, in which she could have told him she debunked the stories and therefore JW did not need to come to Niger? Or do we not talk about these things on the tele?

Maybeex

Also, I think we see why Val had to lie low after her congressional testimony. She'll get away with lying to Congress (this time), but if she had kept embellishing her story, it would have been harder for everyone to ignore.

Enlightened

So now I'm wondering why CIA is allegedly trying to stop her book publication?

Her memo, and what Maybee and TS have pointed out - she comes across a little uppity about her own agency?

Ya think there could be a little "tension" between her and the agency?

Whatever for?

anduril

York now has a nice article up at NRO that ties the four part blog at The Corner up in one package.

Specter

So where are all the Plame Supporters? What about the obvious lies Tic?

Maybeex

From the bottom of the York article anduril pointed out:

Let me speak to what I know of where she is substantively involved. She offered up his name as a possibility, because we were — we didn’t have much in the way of other resources to try and get at this problem, to the best of my knowledge. And so whenever she offered up his name, it seemed like a logical thing to do. I didn’t make the decision to send him, but I certainly agreed with it, I recommended that he should go.


....

I’d like to state emphatically that, from what I’ve seen, Val Wilson has been the consummate professional through all this. From the very start, whenever she mentioned to me and some others that her husband had experience and was willing to travel but that she would have to step away from the operation because she couldn’t be involved in the decisionmaking to send him, in [his] debriefing, [in] dissem[inating] the report and those kinds of things, because it could appear as a conflict of interest.

"Whenever" she mentioned him? How often did she recommend him.
And again, note that he was willing to travel.
So why did he have to pretend publicly that he did not want to travel?
What a liar.

Maybeex

To be clear, the quotes I reprinted are from her reports officer.

anduril

Just wondering: What do you think the sentencing recommendation for Libby would be if he had done what Plame is now documented to have done--and showed no remorse?

I'm afraid I have to agree with OT's assessment, and I shudder for this country when I think that an innocent man will have been convicted and imprisoned on false charges with the whole country watching, while "respected" people lied their asses off to the plaudits of the MSM. And all this at the hands of swine who were sworn to uphold the Constitution and justice.

Dolf Fenster

More eventually, I'll wager.

If by "more eventually," Tom, you mean that you'll be hawking this trifle to within an inch of its shelf-life, a man would be a fool, indeed, to take that bet.

It seems to me that what you and Byron need to get around (other than those silly haircuts) is the now demonstrable fact that Wilson's name was already associated in the Agency with investigations of Niger, his having been approached initially, not by his wife, but by Redacted, for a prior mission.

Now we see--and quite in line with Plame's March testimony--why the nosy fellow walking past her office could so readily offer up her husband for the new mission.

And the letter is just as she described: a brief vita, a little etiquette (clearly, she wasn't in the loop on this decision), and a palpable apprehension.

It sounds like there was more to her reluctance than just the travelling and the toddlers--she seems loathe to take part in another mess.

If only she'd known that it didn't matter what Wilson would find.

Enlightened

If only she had known that subverting the United States government in collusion with her husband would lead to lying under oath with fake but accurate facts.

That halo's darn near tarnished beyond repair.

RichatUF

enlightened...

And what is the Other Niger Matter?

Two possibilities-AQ Khan and his entourage was around sniffing around in Feb 1999 and Wilson was probably in Niger for the transfer of power in July (?) 2000 [this is speculation on my part]. But Wilson's trip in Feb 1999 is a slam dunk-funny, Wilson didn't find anything about AQ Khan back in 1999 either.

RichatUF

Maybeex

Dolf- your argument that this supports the idea that she didn't recommend her husband would make sense if this were not a letter recommending her husband. Further, your argument that this supports the idea that Wilson didn't want to go would be better supported if this letter didn't explicitly state that he was willing to go. Apparently, he was willing to go on any number of missions, and Valerie herself let people know that.

RichatUF

enlightened...

You all know whatever Joe did in Niger at the behest of his wife will never see the light of day. It's not just the Joe and Val show. There must be a bigger shark in that fish tank.

France, Saudi Arabia, Don Kofi and the UN mafia

from the Plame memo...

As you may recall, [redacted] of CP/[office 2] recently approached my husband to possibly use his contacts in Niger to investigate [a separate Niger matter]. After many fits and starts, [redacted] finally advised that the station wished to pursue this with liaison. My husband is willing to help, if it makes sense, but no problem if not.

The [redacted] part is probably the name of the CIA station chief in Chad (I saw that guy referenced before, maybe copied on the cable).

The "other matter" [in context with the memo] has to be something related to AQ Khan.

And something about the tone and style of the letter: can't quite put my finger on it...

RichatUF

RichatUF

clarice says...

...What was going on in Niger(besides his personal interests) that Val pushed that he be sent THREE Times in 2 years? And maybe this explains why DoS was so reluctant about this thrid trip and why Joe was limited as to who he could talk to and what he could ask on the third trip?...

Might also explain why after all their lies the damage assessment hasn't been released (or even little bits leaked, its the CIA after all).

RichatUF

ordi

enlightened wrote:

So, can we assume JW's 'Separate Niger Matters' are not uranium related? Had he checked on Iraq or Iran and uranium/Niger, then shouldn't her statement have been-

'My husband has good relations with both the PM and the former minister of mines, not to mention lots of French contacts, and he has checked this sort of activity previously'??????

So what else goes on/went on in Niger that is/was so super secretive, that it would scare the crap out of Val and Joe if anyone outside the CIA found out, particularly Dick Cheney?


I'll add my speculation. I'll add a little of the "French Connection".

IIRC, France runs the mines in Miger, Jacque Chirac was President of France, It has been made public that Chirac has a 30 Million Euro "Secret' bank account in Japan.

Val wrote that Joe had: good relations with both the PM and the former minister of mines, not to mention lots of French contacts, and he has checked this sort of activity previously.

IIRC, Joe came back thru Paris when he came back from this trip. Also, Joe was Deputy Amb to Iraq.

Were Saddam, Chirac and Joe in a business deal together?

So much for my speculation.

RichatUF

enlightened says...

...I'm going off the moonbat deep end but - what if the CIA was purchasing Niger uranium, or was aware of Niger uranium purchases, and Joe was the broker...

In my less sober moments my thinking was that the deal would work like this: Saudi Arabia sets up Oil-for-Food front companies to launder the money and provide fake shipping documents through Cotechna. France would provide the necessary resources, cover stories, and engineering. AQ Khan provided the equipment and starter kit. The Saudis get the bomb using AQ Khan and France and launder the money and supplies through the Oil-for-Food program. It was all done with a wink-and-nod from the good offices of Langley.

Like I said less sober moments.

RichatUF

Sara

Another Document Surfaces Suggesting (Proving?) Plame Lied


RichatUF

ordi...

...IIRC, Joe came back thru Paris when he came back from this trip...

His lay over going to Niger was Paris-iirc-

He had his meet-and-greet on 19 Feb 2002.

He got his visa to a corrupt african country on 20 Feb 2002.

He flew first to France on 21 Feb 2002 and finally reached Niger on 26 Feb 2002.

His trip was for 8 days (26 Feb-5 Mar 2002) and his debriefing (attended by his wife) was on sometime between 6-8 Mar 2002.

The above is from memory so my apologies beforehand if the days don't quite match up.

RichatUF

RichatUF

Whatever happened to this story

RichatUF

clarice

Mac has suggested for a long time there was a rogue CIA operation going on there--either for personal enrichment or to provide Black ops funding off the books.

There is a lot of room for speculation. My guess, and it's only that, is that it is more likely to be an effort to cover the agency's and Wilson's incompetence in missing altogether the AQ Khan story. Hitchens has shown Wilson was obviously disingenuous in his reporting on the 1999 trip, showing a willful blindness to what was going on there when he visited.

topsecretk9

I typed all kinds of crud from the new supplemental - must have gotten lost down the memory hole...but this from page 212 was interesting (the stuff before too, but it is as far as I got)

...Ambassador Wilson's implicit claim that the question of him traveling to Niger arose first at the February 19, 2002 meeting is also refuted by an intelligence memorandum provided to the Vice President on February 14, 2002 that stated that CIA had tasked a clandestine source with ties to the Nigerien government to seek additional information on the contract. Unless the CIA provided false information to the Vice President, CIA had already tasked Ambassador Wilson, the only source the CIA had other than the foreign liaison service, by the morning of Feb. 14, 2002. In addition, Mrs. Wilson's own testimony to the Committee states that she went home and asked her husband if he would consider looking into the Niger reporting. Contrary to Ambassador Wilson's allegations, the idea of sending him to Niger had been discussed in and among CIA officers for nearly a week before the Feb. 19, 2002 meeting

Now, in a way I guess the CIA DID provide false information to the Vice President either way...because if they were referring to Wilson as the "clandestine source" the CIA allowed Wilson to blab details and mission purpose to everyone in Niger, that he was there on behalf of the gov't (lest they get confused had he not and think he was there on national command authority or something) and the New york times, multiple reporters and in Wilson's own words - it was no secret - no clandestine about it!

(funny, isn't that what Libby said? Some clandestine guy?)

So I gather, the CIA (someone in the CIA) either blew it and lied to the VP and said "were already on it!" and then whoever had to hastily and aggressively get someone over there to cover tracks OR they had already enlisted WIlson and they lied when they said it was clandestine or the source was clandestine and/or not getting Wilson to sign a non-disclosure was -- what was it she said? " the agency's sloppy work"!

topsecretk9

--"Whenever" she mentioned him? How often did she recommend him.
And again, note that he was willing to travel.
So why did he have to pretend publicly that he did not want to travel?
What a liar.

Posted by: Maybeex | May 25, 2007 at 08:57 PM--

Good catch Maybee - sounds like all Val did at CIA was mention and recommend Joe and say he was willing to travel at every opportunity - or looked for every opportunity and created opportunities.

--

On Fitz's stupid sentencing because Libby has shown no remorse - A - he pled not guilty B- he's appealing because he's not guilty (and so very obviously stupid to apologize for something he's saying he did not do) C- to my knowledge Libby has had NO contact on the record with any one on any topic - to say's he's not guilty or otherwise and D- what a puss, does fitz want him to do Oprah?

JM Hanes

Rocco posted some great new stuff over on the Benign Neglect thread (scroll down for a some additional links). I've suggested he repost the info here too. I sure wish he had a place to lay out all the connections he's been making in a comprehensive way.

topsecretk9

OH..I hope he does JMH - Love Rocco's posts.

Lady Sara's link to Gateway Pundit has another new document released, a Carl J. Ford memo...it says

Meeting apparently convened by Valerie Wilson, a CIA WMD managerial type and the wife of Amb. Joe Wilson, with the idea that the agency and the larger USG could dispatch Joe to Niger to use his contacts there to sort out the Niger/Iraq uranium sale question. Joe went to Niger in late 1999 in regard to Niger's uranium program, apparently with CIA support

late 1999? I thought it was February 1999 - that is what he says in his book (although he says vaguely it was about Niger economics he was there for - not Niger's uranium program) - Chris Hitchen's writes about and what the AQ Khan book author said.

topsecretk9
Meeting apparently convened by Valerie Wilson, a CIA WMD managerial type and the wife of Amb. Joe Wilson, with the idea that the agency and the larger USG could dispatch Joe to Niger

?

Did the agency say no - so she was desperately trying to get other government entities on board and pushing for this...

I guess I come back to:

...an intelligence memorandum provided to the Vice President on February 14, 2002 that stated that CIA had tasked a clandestine source with ties to the Nigerien government to seek additional information on the contract.

Unless the CIA provided false information to the Vice President, CIA had already tasked Ambassador Wilson, the only source the CIA had other than the foreign liaison service, by the morning of Feb. 14, 2002.

...or had they?

JM Hanes

tsk9:

The Gateway document isn't a new one (it's the infamous INR memo), but I think you're the first one to point out the the contradictory timelines.

RichatUF

from the Rocco link on the other page...

...In October 1999, Joseph Charles Wilson, former adviser of president Clinton and current ambassador in Angola, met president Obiang Nguema...

It is a bablefish translation but J Wilson retired from government service in June (or was it July) 1998 after a year on the NSC-African Affairs. I would be interested if Wilson traveled in the company of the President in late 1999 (I'll see if I can find anything).

Another interesting tidbit OPIC. Now didn't Soros Private Management have some fingers in the pie in some OPIC projects in Africa?

RichatUF

topsecretk9

I didn't initially think it was new - but there is something different about it -- seems to me -- is this a "redacted" portion that is new?

This passage sounds much more casual.

topsecretk9

--(or was it July) 1998--

Rich, form what I've read -- it was July 1998.

topsecretk9

01:55 AM is to JMH to which it is delightful to see popping in!

RichatUF


Something for Rocco

It's HRW but it seems to play it pretty straight. Seeing if any of the details line up

And trying to piece some stuff together:

USG gets some reporting on 5 Feb 02

The Plame memo is 12 Feb 02

The VP question is 13 Feb 02

The Plame cable is on 14 Feb 02

The meeting "apparently convened" by Plame for the purpose of sending Joe is on 19 Feb 02

Joe Wilson clears his schedule and gets visa on 20 Feb 02

Jow Wilson arrives in France on 21 Feb 02

de Villepin (?) announces on 22 Feb 02 that France will not support an attack on Iraq

RichatUF

RichatUF

The Niger Coup was in April 1999 see here

and

... the Nigerien electorate approved the new constitution in July 1999 and held legislative and presidential elections in October and November 1999. Heading a MNSD/CDS coalition, Tandja Mamadou won the presidency...

source wiki-


Wilson does puff up his role in returning the country to democratic rule, maybe he was doing something in regards to the election (filling out ballots or something)

RichatUF

ordi

Clarice wrote about some of the ties in this taagled web in July of last year.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2006/07/the_african_connection_rep_jef.html>The African Connection: Rep. Jefferson and Joe Wilson

topsecretk9

I am sorry, but in reading Rocco's link --- first line

In October 1999, Joseph Charles Wilson, former adviser of president Clinton and current ambassador in Angola, met president Obiang Nguema: presented like a continuation of the African round of president Clinton, this meeting actually turned around specific points..

I know he says he retired July 1998 - but I have NEVER seen anything in his resume mention Angola

"Angola is a country in south-central Africa bordering Namibia to the south, Democratic Republic of the Congo to the north, and Zambia to the east, and with a west coast along the Atlantic Ocean. "

Wilson served in the U.S. Foreign Service from January 1976 through 1998.

All details of Wilson's diplomatic postings are from "Diplomatic Career of Ambassador Joseph Wilson," The Politics of Truth 451.
1976–1978: General Services Officer, Niamey, Niger
1978–1979: Administrative Office, Lomé, Togo
1979–1981: Administrative Officer, U.S. State Department, Washington, D.C.
1981–1982: Administrative Officer, Pretoria, South Africa
1982–1985: Deputy Chief of Mission (DCM), Bujumbura, Burundi
1985–1986: Congressional Fellow, offices of Senator Al Gore and Representative Tom Foley
1986–1988: DCM, Brazzaville, Republic of the Congo
1988–1991: DCM, Baghdad, Iraq
1992–1995: Ambassador to Gabon and São Tomé and Príncipe
1995–1997: Political Adviser to Commander in Chief U.S. Armed Forces, Europe EUCOM, Stuttgart, Germany
1997–1998: Special Assistant to President Bill Clinton and Senior Director for African Affairs, National Security Council, Washington, D.C.

RichatUF

for Rocco...

Comeco Group...friendly looking group don't know if its the same bunch, probably a dead end

and Toledo Power here

takes you to JG Summit Holdings here

Anyone have a copy of Analyst Notebook to spare

RichatUF

RichatUF

The comment in French is...

En octobre 1999, Joseph Charles Wilson, ancien conseiller du président Clinton et actuel ambassadeur en Angola, a rencontré le président Obiang Nguema: présentée comme une suite de la tournée africaine du président Clinton, cette réunion a tourné en réalité autour de points spécifiques, notamment les possibilités d’installation de sociétés américaines en GuinéeÉquatoriale. Deux sociétés américaines (Nomeco et Oxy) ont par ailleurs offert des propositions pour accroître leurs investissements dans le pays. En septembre 2000, lors de sa visite à Malabo, destinée à annoncer officiellement le financement de l’usine de méthanol sur l’île de Bioko, l’OPIC était accompagnée du secrétaire d’État adjoint au Travail. Même si, en apparence, il ne s’agit que d’investissements étrangers privés, l’OPIC se présente elle-même comme une « agence fédérale indépendante

and the footnote (27) is

Déclaration publiée sur le site <http://allafrica.com> (voir note 16)

Maybe post it to FR some over there might be able to translate it, unless Rocco is forging stuff again.

RichatUF

RichatUF

more stuff for Rocco...

OPIC, Soros, and Bulgaria

And more relevant...

OPIC and West Africa

Soros and Africa
also here

and ordi, reading that from Clarice was like reading it for the first time. Funny Rep. Jefferson is still in good standing in the House

RichatUF

RichatUF

from enlightened above...

...So what else goes on/went on in Niger that is/was so super secretive, that it would scare the crap out of Val and Joe if anyone outside the CIA found out, particularly Dick Cheney?

Scare them enough to lie so heinously a man is facing prison, and our country's national security has been compromised?...

If they were involved in the coup in which Gen. Bare was murdered. Plame had her degree in advertising, wouldn't be shocked if she worked at some point in propanganda and influence operations (all the other revelations of her career aside)

RichatUF

ordi

RichatUF

Yes, it was like the first time reading it.

Could this be why Jefferson has not been indicted yet? DOJ may still be connecting the dots and there are A LOT of dots.......

Chuckie Schumer is really OBSESSED in knock Gonzo out. This is all one of those things that make you go HMMMMM.......

RichatUF

ordi says...

...Could this be why Jefferson has not been indicted yet? DOJ may still be connecting the dots and there are A LOT of dots

Or they a furiously misplacing evidence and doing everything in their power to bring the most confusing case possible [quintuple negatives and long latin phrases, in a 100 count indictment and 250 pages of jury instructions]. They can then turn around after a not guilty verdict and say, well, we tried.

Davod

I read earlier that Wilson represented a French company. Also his previous wife was something in French intelligence.

Given the above, and France's antagonism to the US position, how in heaven's name was Wilson able to retain any crebibilty.

Come to think of it, how was his new wife Valerie, married to someone with Wilson's background, able to avoid scrutiny by the CIA counter intelligence branch.

PeterUK.

One question that has not been raised,why should Wilson's "contacts" tell him anything? The activity was illegal by non-proliferation treaties,COGEMA(Areva)the French company which rum much of the areas uranium mining and extraction and Niger officials are hardly likely to reveal secret deals to an American ex-Ambassador.
So what leverage did Wilson have,political,financial,enough of the goods, to bring pressure to bear? Standard procedure in such countries is to give the inquirer the runaround and send them home with just enough information to keep them happy.
Personally,I think the visit was a smoke screen for the benefit of the US end of the line

lurker9876

Haven't had a chance to read it all...

But...

What is Waxman's reaction to Sen. Bond's investigation? Will he ignore Bond's work and continue with his own investigation as if he truly believes there exists a conspiracy within the WH adminstration? (and he will never find it.)

Hey, guys, you check into any connections with the Americanturkishcouncil and the Wilsons? Why?

lurker9876

Do take notice of members on the board, advisory, and the other one at AmericanTurkishcouncil.org

lurker9876

Speaking about Africa...Al Qaeda is building bases in Africa...

Guess shouldn't be that surprising due to Africa being such a weak country.

Charlie (Colorado)

Is there a reason that http://www.scooterlibby.org/ is no longer work-safe? Or, for that matter, Libby related?

Walter, that's a "parking" page. Someone picked up the domain, and put up that page hoping it will generate traffic to their dating and pr0n site. Mildly crooked but legal side effect of the way domains are administered.

lurker9876


Things that make you want to gag.

Fox News just reported that the prosecution asked for 36 months for Libby because he has failed to show any remorse.

Oh, this makes me sick.

36 months because Libby showed no remores????

How about Libby knowing that he's innocent of these charges and knowing his chances were doomed once the jury was set in place?


Rocco

ts...when I first read that Conjoncture article, I thought the very same thing! But I remembered reading something about Angola in the Vanity Fair article.

Also in Burundi, Wilson met his second wife, then the cultural counselor at the French Embassy there. They spent a year back in Washington on a congressional fellowship, during which time he worked for Al Gore, then a senator from Tennessee, and Tom Foley, then House majority whip. "It was," Wilson says, "happenstance" that he worked for two Democrats. Then he returned to Africa as deputy chief of mission in the Congo Republic, where he helped Assistant Secretary of State Chester Crocker set up the process that led to negotiations for the withdrawal of the Cuban and South African troops from the Angolan Civil War.

JMH...comprehensive, I was a lineman if ya know what I mean! Bits and pieces, here and there is all I can come up with. You wonderful people out here are my compass, I just follow your lead.

Wilson was a busy man in 99. In Feb he was in Niger restoring democracy with Mayaki. And if that Conjoncture article has any credibility, it puts him in Equatorial Guinea in October 99. And Ethiopia the following November according to that Indian Ocean Newsletter-Well Connected Businessmen.

I don't really trust that Babel Fish translation either but it does state Wilson met Obiang. I believe Nomeco was already established in EG but was Wilson present with representatives from Nomeco and Obiang?

I'm not too sure about the Comeco connection as well. This SEC link lists CMS Nomeco Oil & Gas Co as one of eleven subsidiaries of CMS Enterprises. CMS Nomeco Oil & Gas Co directly owns 16 subsidiaries, one of which is Comeco Petroleum Holdings, Inc., A Delaware corporation engaged in the exploration and production of oil and natural gas in Yemen. Another, CMS NOMECO International, Inc., with another subsidiary called Walter International Tunisia, Inc., a Texas corporation.

The UN's list of companies involved in the OFF lists COMECO ENG LTD with Tunisia as Mission.

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Wilson/Plame