Stand Tall, America

Paul Krugman guilt trips America's working moms:

Traveling through Europe recently, I’ve been able to confirm through personal experience what statistical surveys tell us: the perceived stature of Americans is not what it was. Europeans used to look up to us; now, many of them look down on us instead.

No, I’m not talking metaphorically about our loss of moral authority in the wake of Guantánamo and Abu Ghraib. I’m literally talking about feet and inches.

To the casual observer, Europeans — who often seemed short, even to me (I’m 5-foot-7), when I first began traveling a lot in the 1970s — now often seem tall by American standards. And that casual observation matches what careful researchers have found.

The data show that Americans, who in the words of a recent paper by the economic historian John Komlos and Benjamin Lauderdale in Social Science Quarterly, were “tallest in the world between colonial times and the middle of the 20th century,” have now “become shorter (and fatter) than Western and Northern Europeans. In fact, the U.S. population is currently at the bottom end of the height distribution in advanced industrial countries.”

This is not a trivial matter. As the paper says, “height is indicative of how well the human organism thrives in its socioeconomic environment.” There’s a whole discipline of “anthropometric history” that uses evidence on heights to assess changes in social conditions.

...

There is normally a strong association between per capita income and a country’s average height. By that standard, Americans should be taller than Europeans: U.S. per capita G.D.P. is higher than that of any other major economy. But since the middle of the 20th century, something has caused Americans to grow richer without growing significantly taller.

It’s not the population’s changing ethnic mix due to immigration: the stagnation of American heights is clear even if you restrict the comparison to non-Hispanic, native-born whites.

And although the Komlos-Lauderdale paper suggests that growing income and social inequality in America might be one culprit, the remarkable thing is that, as the authors themselves point out, even high-status Americans are falling short: “rich Americans are shorter than rich Western Europeans and poor white Americans are shorter than poor Western Europeans.”

We seem to be left with two main possible explanations of the height gap.

One is that America really has turned into “Fast Food Nation.”

“U.S. children,” write Mr. Komlos and Mr. Lauderdale, “consume more meals prepared outside the home, more fast food rich in fat, high in energy density and low in essential micronutrients, than do European children.” Our reliance on fast food, in turn, may reflect lack of family time because we work too much: U.S. G.D.P. per capita is high partly because employed Americans work many more hours than their European counterparts.

A broader explanation would be that contemporary America is a society that, in a variety of ways, doesn’t take very good care of its children. Recently, Unicef issued a report comparing a number of measures of child well-being in 21 rich countries, including health and safety, family and peer relationships and such things as whether children eat fruit and are physically active. The report put the Netherlands at the top; sure enough, the Dutch are now the world’s tallest people, almost 3 inches taller, on average, than non-Hispanic American whites. The U.S. ended up in 20th place, below Poland, Portugal and Hungary, but ahead of Britain.

Whatever the full explanation for America’s stature deficit, our relative shortness, like our low life expectancy, suggests that something is amiss with our way of life. A critical European might say that America is a land of harried parents and neglected children, of expensive health care that misses those who need it most, a society that for all its wealth somehow manages to be nasty, brutish — and short.

OK, props for the closing line.  However, without actually rallying myself to track down the paper in question I can think of two problems and an alternative explanation.

Problems first - what's the baseline?  Europe was racked by two world wars in the last century, both of which created near-famine conditions.  Presumably, this caused Euro-heights to lag that of Americans, an effect that probably skews data until we get to Europeans born after, say, 1955.  In other words, when Paul Krugman saw eye-to-eye with Europeans in the early 1970's, he was looking at a lot of war-deprived shorties. 

However, regardless of the absolute wealth of Europe versus the United States, from about 1955 onwards (or, in terms of measuring adults, form about 1975 onwards), one would expect Europe to increase more quickly than the US, simply because they  are moving up from a war-depressed baseline.

Second problem - what is the ethnic mix of Europe relative to the United States?  I would hazard a guess that healthy, well-fed Swedes are taller than healthy, well-fed Irish or Italians.  The United States has descendants from all three countries, but I would hardly be surprised to learn that Sweden has surpassed the US in height.  But are the Irish in Ireland taller than their US counterparts?  Are the Scandinavians in this country lagging the Scandinavians who stayed behind?  Who knows?

And an alternative explanation - rather than blaming America's work ethic, let's idly speculate that the cause is the general European welfare state.  Here we go - imagine Subsidy Society where hard work is heavily taxed and unemployment is heavily subsidized.  Women will have a reduced incentive to assess prospective breeding partners in terms of their earning potential and will be more able to afford picking a mate on the basis of other qualities, such as charm, good looks, or (dare we say it?) height.  In such a society, the height of the population would drift upwards due to selective breeding.  In fact, we might look to the day when such a society was predominantly populated by tall, handsome, charming lay-abouts who looked as good pouring a glass of wine as they did cashing an unemployment check.  Some day!

Now picture a second society in which hard work can result in economic success regardless of a person's charm or physical stature.  In such a society shorter men will be more likely than their counterparts in Subsidy Society to emerge as economically attractive mates and the evolving height of the population may be flat, as it were.

C'mon - we all know that in Old Europe, the diminutive Prof. Krugman would have become one more angry old man smoking cigarettes on the (Far) Left Bank, watching the pretty girls go by on the arms of taller men.  In Enterprising America he made a Somebody of himself and was able to score a hot chick (but we have no word on whether he has been blessed with the pitter-patter of little Krugmans, so we will hold off on wishing him a Happy Father's Day.)

Well, its a theory, although I can't guess how to test it - survey the heights of the fathers of newborns relative to the general population of the same age and check for trans-Atlantic differences?  Good luck finding data. 

Things To Do - track down the study in question; dig up a link to some photos of Krugman and Spouse that circulated a few years ago to general acclaim; ruminate that Bush II is shorter than his dad; and wonder why I am the same height as my dad even though I grew up in a wealthier household and nation (post-war America versus Depression America.)

Quite a Friday ahead of me.

MORE:  If folks can't take any more of height-ism, I would love to reflect on streaks and hot hands in baseball.  I see their is a blog devoted to the general topic; my interest is sparked by the impending collision of the unstoppable force with the utterly movable object.

BREAKTHROUGH STUFF:  If Europeans look taller to Krugman today, it may simply be that he is stooped from carrying the weight of the world on his shoulder lo these many years.

Here is a link to the study in question, and thanks to RichatUF.

Comments

[clarice]

I b;ame Bush and his failing to close the southern border. Hispanics are shorter than Swedes.

Famously, the Europeans used to claim that everything in the new world was diminished that people and animals were smaller here than in the old world. (How's that for Krugman's claim they always used to look up to us.) As our Ambassador, Thomas Jefferson (no shortie) asked his dinner guests who were spouting this drivel to stand up and be measured. The average height of the Americans even in the early frontier days exceeded substantially that of their European guests.

Krugman, Always wrong and always amusing.

[hit and run]

I had been holding out on referencing the Yankees until the win streak hit 10.

But since you breached the subject...can the Yanks catch the Sox?

Their chances are much like the America of Krugman...becoming less and less of a tall order.

[BobS]

Krugman-barely readable as ever. But he has found yet a new angle for liberals to lament how much people don't like us.

[anduril]

Nasty, brutish...and short. I like that very much.

I have nothing to contribute except that my second son, who is 5'11'', feels very much on the short end of the scale over there among the Teutons.

[Semanticleo]

"OK, props for the closing line'

Surprised that you and he failed to give credit to it's true author, Thomas Hobbes.

""Whatsoever therefore is consequent to a time of Warre, where every man is Enemy to every man; the same is consequent to the time, wherein men live without other security, than what their own strength, and their own invention shall furnish them withall. In such condition, there is no place for Industry; because the fruit thereof is uncertain; and consequently no Culture of the Earth; no Navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by Sea; no commodious Building; no Instruments of moving, and removing such things as require much force; no Knowledge of the face of the Earth; no account of Time; no Arts; no Letters; no Society; and which is worst of all, continuall feare, and danger of violent death; And the life of man, solitary, poore, nasty, brutish, and short."

'Leviathan' is a non-republican view of the human condition.

[anduril]

Wait! I do have something to contribute. The Japanese are now taller than the Chinese. This is a national crisis for the Chinese, who still refer to the Japanese as "the pirate dwarves from the east." (Yes, like Tolkien, I choose to spell it "dwarves"). This has been the subject of numerous newspaper articles and government pronouncements in China, urging higher protein diets to remedy this national loss of face. Try it sometime, raise the topic with a Chinese person--I've had them go well nigh ballistic at the mere mention of this fact, which they vociferously dispute as "impossible."

[Appalled Moderate]

Semantic:

I don't think Leviathan is much of a Democratic opus, as Hobbes is definitely an enthusiast of the divine right of kings.

(Of course, that line is the only good one in what is a most turgid piece of literature.)

[Other Tom]

Hint for Cleo: We're all hip to Hobbes here, dear girl.

I blame Clinton.

[Semanticleo]

"We're all hip to Hobbes here"

It must be true, since you said it, Thomasina.

[BumperStickerist]

Two alternate theories:

1 - Krugman is shorter now that he was then due to the prolonged effect of carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders.

2 - the metric system, it's sneaky, prevalent in Europe and can be used to measure height.

-

[sylvia]

I saw on article on this a while ago in the London Times and I also was perplexed about it. I'm glad TM that you examined several factors that I also was thinking about that were overlooked besides nutrition such as ethnic mix and selective breeding. Perhaps being short in Europe is the kiss of death, whereas here I find many girls open to dating shorter guys. Look at Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes for one.

Also I know that when I visit New York City with its ethnic mix I feel kind of tall and when I visit the waspy heartland especially the South I feel like a shortie. So the changing ethnic mix here has a lot to do with it. Although I have to say the Italians (at least in Rome) are getting kind of tall too, so I don't know. Perhaps our influx of recent immigrants from non-Northern Europe in the early and mid part of the 1900's was an influx of the poorer, hence shorter, populations of those countries. That had the effect of removing many short people from those countries and transferring them here, and those populations have continued to have a higher birthrate in this country that further drives the short effect.

I also believe that comparing whites to whites is somewhat flawed because we have had lots of mixing of sometimes shorter ethnic groups with whites, and someone who is half Hispanic or half Asian may consider themselves white and hence skew the comparison somewhat.

[cathyf]

I've always been curious as to the correlation between lactose intolerance and height. Because, as has been aluded to already, it seems that the further north you go the taller folks are, and it's well known the the further north you go the less likely you are to find lactose intolerance.

[Jane]

But since you breached the subject...can the Yanks catch the Sox?

In a word: I hope not.

[hit and run]

In a word: I hope not.

In a word: Well, all I try to do is play Yankee fans off Sox fans. To sew the seeds of discontent.

At one point, Richardson tried to paint himself as a fan of BOTH the Yankees AND the Red Sox.

Jim Geraghty said that was like saying you were for both the Sunni and Shia.

I REALLY, REALLY tried to get someone ANYONE to then opine on which was which, Yankee fans Sunni, Red Sox fans Shia? Or the opposite.

No one took the bait.

(Geraghty did say something about the Ruth curse being analogous to the 12th iman in an email...but then he quickly cut off communication)

[RichatUF]

YES!!! The BumberStickerist:

2 - the metric system, it's sneaky, prevalent in Europe and can be used to measure height.

And that's all you needed to say

RichatUF

[Other Tom]

Although I turned against the Yanks once the oaf Steinbrenner acquired them, and vastly prefer the Sox, I see doom--doom, I tell you, doom. The lout Schilling cannot be trusted; everybody has figured out Dice-K, who only got off to a good start W/L-wise because of his astronomical run support; Wakefield, like all knuckleballers, is extremely unreliable; and--well, do you need more?

Doom, I tell you--doom. Bucky f***ing Dent-type doom.

[RichatUF]

Tom-

And I found the paper here

Conclusion graf-

We conjecture that the American health-care system, as well as the relatively weak welfare safety net might be the reason why human growth in the United States has not performed as well in relative terms as one would expect on the basis of income. The comparative pattern bears some similarly to that of life expectancy insofar as the US is also lagging behind in that respect.

Average Height worldwide

I'm short, I'm not worried

RichatUF

[RichatUF]

and the picture

RichatUF

[clarice]

I'm short but it's because my juices are tightly packed.

[hit and run]

Other Tom:
The lout Schilling cannot be trusted

Now wait just one second. You may be talking about the person who replaces Ted Kennedy or unseats John Kerry.

Assuming Jane's business partner doesn't run for the senate.

[clarice]

I still say it's the large level of emigration and ethnic variation as much as anything. The original American settlers were largely from northern Europe. My the beginning of the last century we had huge influxes from eastern Europe and Italy and now we are getting them from Mexico.

My son's mother-in-law lived in rural Japan during WWII and is as tiny as my grnadmother who lived in poverty in Eastern Europe. Each generation born here is taller than their immigrant forebears, but they have a way to go to catch up to Sven.

[Tom Maguire]

Surprised that you and he failed to give credit to it's true author, Thomas Hobbes.

I would hang myself if I were tall enough to reach the chandelier.

Let's see - when Hobbes, in his ever-so-widely quoted line, used "short" he was referring to longevity, or length of lifespan - people lived a "short" time.

In Krugman's usage, he is referring to actual height, i.e., people are not tall but "short". Sort of an amusing twist, I thought.

I can't type any slower.

Krugman is shorter now that he was then due to the prolonged effect of carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders.

On the To Steal list.

I've always been curious as to the correlation between lactose intolerance and height.

As one who is mildly lactose intolerant I find this to be of passing interest.

Yankee fans Sunni, Red Sox fans Shia? Or the opposite.

Tricky. Some background via the only place to find wisdom on islam:

The split between the two main branches of Islam is nearly 1,400 years old, and started with a fight over who should lead the faithful after the prophet Muhammad's death in 632. One side believed that direct descendants of the prophet should take up the mantle of the caliph – the leader of the world's faithful. They were known as the Shiat-Ali, or "partisans of Ali," after the prophet's cousin and son-in-law Ali, whom they favored to become caliph. In time, they came simply to be known as Shiites.

The other side, the Sunnis, thought that any worthy man could lead the faithful, regardless of lineage, and favored Abu Bakr, an early convert to Islam who had married into Muhammad's family. "Sunni" is derived from the Arab word for "followers" and is shorthand for "followers of the prophet."

The Shiites were the eventual losers in a violent struggle for mastery that lasted decades, a fact now reflected in their minority status within global Islam.

As I say, tricky - given their history as a beleagured minority, you have to say Red Sox Nation are Shia. In fact, I think we can all agree that Red Sox Nation is full of shiite.

That notion is further reinforced by this passage:

The other side, the Sunnis, thought that any worthy man could lead the faithful, regardless of lineage

From Babe Ruth through Catfish Hunter and Reggie Jackson right on to Roger Clemens himself, clearly the Yankees will take any winner, regardless of lineage (DJ, Posada, Mariano and sort-of Pettite are the current exceptions, like the Mick and Joe D).

Case closed.

[hit and run]

I. Love. You.

[hit and run]

I mean.....

Incredible. You found a golf course near the conference, awesome Chinese, now you find me evidence of the Sunni/Shia, Yankee/Sox answers. I love you.

...turn around...every now and then I get a little bit lonely and yer never comin' 'round...turn around...

Take market street exit...

You're right, we'll just keep it professional, ya know.

[PeterUK.]

"And the life of man, solitary, poore, nasty, brutish, and short."

Your autobiography Septic?

[RalphL]

That means in Iraq, we've taken the side of hereditary monarchy over meritocracy.

Oops.

[RalphL]

Put those illegals on the rack. Give them citizenship when they hit 5'10".

[PeterUK.]

Poor nutrition has to be factored in,it is a fact that the generation born in WWI bore children in WWII,both periods of great food shortages in Europe.
Mechanised warfare saw the slaughter of the flower of an entire generation,only the fittest were conscripted to feed into the gaping maw of the machine gun and the artillery.
It is said that towards the end of WWI the bottom of the barrel had to be scraped for recruits,these unfortunates were such and odd looking bunch they were transported at night,for reasons of civilian morale.

[hoosierhoops]

Put those illegals on the rack. Give them citizenship when they hit 5'10".

uh..excuse me.. I say 6'9" min. unless they have decent point guard skills..
Jesus what is this world coming too?

[Jane]

I think we can all agree that Red Sox Nation is full of shiite.

Harrumph!

[JM Hanes]

Oh lordy, you must miss having Krugman to kick around since he was Selected for disappearance. I see he remains a regular fawlty tower of logic:

There is normally a strong association between per capita income and a country’s average height. By that standard, Americans should be taller than Europeans: U.S. per capita G.D.P. is higher than that of any other major economy. But since the middle of the 20th century, something has caused Americans to grow richer without growing significantly taller.

Having established that the presumed connection between per capita income GDP and stature is demonstrably false, Krugman proceeds, undaunted, to argue that since we ought to be taller than everyone else, and since GDP is not the problem, our declining relative height can only be symptomic of a deeper comparative malaise. Of course, the Euros would be first to reject Krugman's bigger = better thesis as uniquely American, uniquely misguided, and uniquely distasteful, but never mind. Counting ironies is the amateur's game here. Krugman pros play Name That Fallacy!

Krugman contends that we, or if we're naming names, we WASPs have naught but our own nasty brutishness to blame for America's failure to measure up -- regardless of whose ruler we use (and Krugman, bless his little heart, uses as many as he can). That conclusion does seem rather bizarre coming from someone of such modest height himself, though it makes a kind of poetic sense. Perhaps the man so naturally inclined to badger, bait, and hound was never destined to be tall.

Given the exemptions accorded by Mr. K to everyone else, it appears we WASPs are singularly responsible for both America's original lead and the sorry statistical state we find ourselves in today. As someone who contributes more than most to the American feminine average, and who continues to uphold -- nay, who is living testament to -- the fundamental American value of tallness, I'd just like to say that I think it's about time all you other ethnic types started pulling your weight doing your part.

This is not a trivial matter[!!!] As the paper says, “height is indicative of how well the human organism thrives in its socioeconomic environment.”

If humanity is to thrive, you slackers need to quit wasting your time having babies and start growing up!

[JM Hanes]

Oh, and RED SOX NATION!

[Tollhouse]

Doesn't really matter in the long term if the native Europeans aren't having children.

[hit and run]

JMH:
Oh, and RED SOX NATION!

Put you down in the Iranian column then.

[JM Hanes]

Semanticleo:

Well, I guess it's just po' po' pitiful (but tall!) me who completely missed the Hobbesian reference, till you were kind enough to point it out.

[JM Hanes]

hit

Put me down for Persepolis, please. If Jane were next door in Shiraz that would be nice -- although I wouldn't blame her if she'd rather take the Caspian.

[Forbes]

TM: A somewhat dubious "study", IMO.

In the opening of their paper, they describe their results, in part, as: "The American population had been the tallest in the world for two centuries until World War II,..."

Now I ask, was America the world's tallest population from 1740 until 1940 due to our fabulous health care system and relatively strong social welfare safety net?

Wasn't Manhattan Island originally known as New Amsterdam, when the Dutch not only ruled the waves, but was the greatest economic power on Earth--only to be succeeded by the British Empire as the dominant power in economic and military affairs, wherein New Amsterdam became New York?

It would seem that the height of Europeans during the 1740-1940 period did not perform as well in relative terms as one would expect of the basis on income.

And continuing on, from their reported results, as above: "but by the end of the 20th century [the US] fell behind many of their European counterparts."

In fact (from the study-figure 4), Norway and the Netherlands are reported as taller than Americans (born) as of 1940--60 years before the end of the 20th century (when the US is discovered to be falling behind)! I guess this news was a little slow in coming to the attention of Mr. Komlos and Mr. Lauderdale.

And finally, the authors conclusion, as quoted in a comment above by RichatUF, is indeed a conjecture about the American health care system and welfare safety net for which they present no data and no analysis--while simply citing a handful of other studies.

That Paul Krugman can get a column out of a "study" that reports a conjecture as a conclusion is a testament to Krugman's skill as a fiction author.

[SMGalbraith]

In the spirit of the seriousness of topic, I'll offer two solutions:

(A) Enact a multi-trillion dollar national womb-to-almost-tomb health care program.

(B) "Import" taller Mexicans.

That Krugman is a wild and crazy, albeit short, guy.

[clarice]

Good enough for Princeton and the NYT which says something about those institutions, doesn't it?

[Jane]

If Jane were next door in Shiraz that would be nice -- although I wouldn't blame her if she'd rather take the Caspian.

I'm fine with all of it altho I might choose Isfahan for the shopping - I'm just going for the cats and rugs since they have done away with the fashion. Altho I do have some concern that they are kidnapping americans lately - in an apparent attempt to relive 1979. The worst part of all that is one of them is a george Soros operative, and I'd hate to be in an cell adjacent to him.

[JM Hanes]

Jane:

"I'm fine with all of it...."

I'm not sure hit will let you have all of it. Maybe Isfahan could be a sort of (duty free!) neutral zone. You can shop, I'll hang out at the palace, Rocco can follow up leads on the potential Wilson connection. I noticed in the other thread that Rocco is a fellow traveller, so we're in good company. I'm thinking maybe he should get the Persian Gulf, what with all the traffic he'd be so good at sorting out.

I've got a metaphorical magic wand to wave at potential miscreants, and it should work just fine on Sorosites too. OTOH red sox are sort of like the next best thing to ruby slippers, aren't they? So why worry?

[JM Hanes]

Forbes:

Nice work!

[Seixon]

"Women will have a reduced incentive to assess prospective breeding partners in terms of their earning potential and will be more able to afford picking a mate on the basis of other qualities, such as charm, good looks, or (dare we say it?) height."

Why do you think I'm in Norway? ;)

[cathyf]

In a word: Well, all I try to do is play Yankee fans off Sox fans. To sew the seeds of discontent.

Hmmm... Are those the names of sports teams or something? What sport?

(go cubs ;-)

[SlimGuy]

Seixon

When I first moved to Hawaii, the tourist babes 3rd or 4th string could be considered beauty queens in most areas of the country, but when they invented the 747 cattle cars, well we got cattle!

Almost made me want to declare Jihad on 747s LOL.

After the cattle car thingy the good looking babes reverted to their uppity you can't touch this meme that they had never put in play before the herd arrived.

[Bruce Hayden]

My vote is ethnic mix. I go in the grocery store in Dillon, CO, and find I tower over almost all of the Hispanics shopping there. Many of the men appear to be well under 5'6, and the women under 5'.

I don't know how many generations it is going to take for them to reach their natural height, but these are very recent (possibly illegal) immigrants.

And note very quickly, if they haven't yet, the Hispanics will be the largest ethnic minority in the country. I suspect that most of them are first and second generation immigrants, and as such, they and their ancestors were underfed and didn't receive adequte health care.

[RalphL]

Do pygmies get taller if you feed them?
How much Spanish blood do most Mexicans/Central Americans have? I've only seen a couple over 5'6" or so.

[SlimGuy]

Bruce

Hey I could also say that the Japanese (not underfed and who have good health care), South Koreans, Tibet, Singapore, VietNam and the whole pacific rim population could share the shorter than most meme.

I blame it on the rice. It's a common theme.

As far as those "other" populations who are not rice eaters that have height advantages, I blame them for global warming since their CO2 emissions have a better chance of reaching the atmosphere.

Of course you have to play this post with the song playing in the background of "short people got no reason to live".

If you don't get that this post is snark in the first tense, please consider admitting your self to your nearest institution for critical evaluation.

[MJW]

Let's see...Denmark, Norway, Germany, the Netherlands -- a lot of Nordic folk in those parts. Nordic, as in: of or relating to a physical type characterized by tall stature, long head, light skin and hair, and blue eyes. So, let me offer the authors and Mr. Klugman and a less that remarkable explanation for the "remarkable relative decline": Northern and Western Europeans are genetically predisposed to be taller than Americans. In the past, American diets were higher than European diet in protein -- the primary dietary determinate of height -- which more that overcame the genetic disadvantage. As the European diets became equal to American diets, the nutritional difference disappeared, and the genetic difference became the determining factor.

(I've got to wonder just what medical treatment is hypothesized to affect the height of a sufficient fraction of the population to explain a measurable difference. Do large numbers of American children suffer from height-reducing medical conditions? Do Europeans have their kids injected with Human Growth Hormone?)

[MJW]

On further inspection, I see Tom Maquire more or less advances the same theory as I did. Which just goes to prove: a) If we could figure it out, so should the study's authors; b) I need to read more carefully before commenting.

[Poppy]

"""No, I’m not talking metaphorically about our loss of moral authority in the wake of Guantánamo and Abu Ghraib.""""

This guys an ass. So who in Europe supposedly has this great morale authority? Is he saying GITMO is worse then the holocaust? Then the Germans can't look down on us.

Is he saying GITMO was worse then the Spanish Inquisition? Or worse then the African slave trade? Is worse then French atrocities in Africa? The guillotine of 1300 people in two weeks? The heads on spikes?

[Pofarmer]

Well, when he started an article on height with the "moral authority" argument, you should have known the entire article was bird cage liner.

[RalphL]

Our health care system must be BETTER than Europe's. The runts survive.

[PatrickR]

Speaking of disingenuous NY Times columnists, Nick Kristoff is crying about government persecuting innocents. Too bad he didn't come forward to tell Patrick Fitzgerald that he'd known since early May 2003 that Valerie Plame worked at the CIA.

Maybe Scooter Libby could have avoided his Kafkaesque nightmare if Kristoff had a shred of decency in him.

[Forbes]

JM Hanes-

Thanks for the kind remark.

[Jane]

Uhum,

The Yankees lost last nite and the Red Sox won. Then the Red Sox won again today.

Who's your daddy?

[JM Hanes]

Go Sox! Iran is beginning to look, well, a little small, don't you think?

[Jane]

Iran is beginning to look, well, a little small, don't you think?

You know, I really really really wanted to see the old Iran - the Persia Iran, (admittedly only after that Iran was gone). I really really really hope they get back to that some day soon.

[PaulV]

Krugman merely misunderstands the goal of Hilter's final solution. By removing Mediterean types like Gypsies and Jews from European gene pool he was able to impress NYTimes writers with the increasing heights of Europeans. The immigrations of so many of the above groups to the US gave his plan the benefit of extra bang for the mark.

[Nick Kasoff - The Thug Report]

I didn't think Krugman's wife was so hot. Dennis Kucinich's (third) wife, on the other hand - THAT is a hottie. (See pic here)

Nick Kasoff
The Thug Report

[RichatUF]

Sorry to go off-topic, but I thought this piece was interesting...

found by mac ranger

graf-

But away from the cameras, he quietly reached out to the president in a letter sent through Clinton's chief of staff. "If the President is going to have any good cigars left over," he relayed to Clinton, who had once sent him a stogie, "in the spirit of bipartisanship I might be willing to help him out."

Author bio

That would be either Bowles or Podesta

Hummmm...

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Does anyone understand who Krugman, who can't seem to do arithmetic, doesn't understand statistical reasoning, and makes major errors in practically every column, got a tenured gig at Princeton in Economics and the NYT slot?

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Well, when he started an article on height with the "moral authority" argument, you should have known the entire article was bird cage liner.

When he started the article with that byline I knew it was birdcage liner.

[Charlie (Colorado)]

Just to stay in the loop here, I'll note that I'm a fan (1) of the Colorado Rockies, and (2) whoever is playing the Yankees.

This week is a toofer.

[Memomachine]

Hmmmm.

I don't suppose the migration into America of millions of rather short people would make a difference then?

[Deep Thought]

I'm disappointed. I thought for sure there'd be some way to blame global warming. I just know it's got to be related somehow.

[Mitch]

I come from a long line of Yankee-hating New Yorkers (Giants, Dodgers, Mets) and when I moved to the Boston area, it felt like coming home. The 1985 World Series was like the Civil War for my family.

The Euros can be as short or as tall as they please. I just hope it does not result in a competition among rich Americans and Asians to hire the tallest domestic servants. We don't want to see a bidding war break out in the Hamptons, do we?

[comatus]

I think we all got the Hobbes joke. What most of us are not getting is that Hobbes is an individualist and a proponent of a society of voluntary association and trade--by no means the tory ogre depicted in 101 courses of the 1970's. Please review any Hobbes scholarship of the last 15 years, particularly that presented at seminars of the Social Philosophy and Policy Center.

I don't know how tall he was, though.

PaulV is right about Europe; due to their enlightened policies, we got the Jews, Austrian economics, Krugman's sorry short ass, and The Bomb--and all Europe got was taller.

Hey, Manhattan Island was not originally called "New Amsterdam," it was called "Manhattan Island," and was inhabited by tall red men. Perhaps the US has bred down its native stock too far? I am 6 foot two and part Ottawa, so really need for this concept to catch on...

[Ken Mitchell]

One important factor has not been considered; "hybrid vigor". It was once common, in pre-Industrial ages, to marry and have children with a person from your same village; travel was rare. It wasn't until people began leaving home in droves and going to America - WHEREVER they came FROM - that they met and married people from "elsewhere" who were NOT, inevitably, their third or fourth cousins. So, instead of my petite grandmother from Ireland marrying Seamus from the third house down the lane, she married a Greek and settled down in Ohio. And their son married a girl from Kentucky, whose ancestry was a veritable "Heinz-57" mixture from every part of Europe. Is it any wonder that my son, at 6' 4", is 1 foot and a half taller than EITHER of my paternal grandparents? Or that Nisei Japanese tower over their grandparents?

Now that Europeans are starting to move about a little, and not settling for the kid where HER family has known HIS family for 20 generations, is it any wonder that a similar efect is taking place there?

[comatus]

Ken, we're related, aren't we?

The average height of Japanese marines on Guadalcanal was 6'4". By drafting the big guys first (and putting them in the front line), Napoleon was said to have decreased the height of the average Frenchman by 6 inches. Many feel he stopped about 5-foot-6 too soon.

[Daddy]

Just back from Osaka where at 5' 9" I'm still taller than the average in the hotel elevators. Also just finished a new history of Cabeza De Vaca (Brutal Journey) where in 1530's Florida the local American natives are all much taller than he and his fellow conquistadores, so though it may be true American's are getting shorter, personally I think Krugman's still telling tall tales.

[Daddy]

I blame Prohibition.
Following Natural Selection, Darwin's second big evolutionary mechanism was Sexual Selection, the process whereby reproductive individuals selectively steer the gene-pool by choosing mating partners because of various sexually attractive features. Is there in the human species a larger truism than that the opposite sex gets way better looking after a pint or 2 or 3 or 4? I certainly think not. Well thanks to Congress's shenanigans of Prohibition, after 400 years of unbridled American fornication, for almost an entire decade this whole nation had to soberly evaluate who they were going to be waking up with in the morning and if that ain't throwing a monkey wrench into the mechanism of Sexual Selection, I don't know what is. Naturally it follows that 3 generations down the road, the genetic consequences of such legislative stupidity to the American genotype would manifest themselves in the American phenotype, all due to Congress's "Short"sightedness.

[sylvia]

Here's an article that's roughly related:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/
us_and_americas/article1942909.ece

"Despite a constant drumbeat of warnings that everything we eat is contributing to our imminent demise, recent studies have confirmed that human longevity is steadily expanding, especially in the country that invented the fat-clogged cheeseburger."

So where are all these early deaths from out diet?

[Paul Zrimsek]

(Even) Shorter Krugman: No, it's not quite an end in itself-- still, America's got less of it than Europe, therefore it must be a proxy for something good, if only one could work out what.

"I'm 6-foot-4 and I eat punks like you for breakfast!"

[hoosierhoops]

I don't know about Europeans in general, But
in the Netherlands almost everyone is tall and slender..( I have no stats or can site no study)
But the Dutch people just seem to a generally taller race of people..
Maybe It's just good genes..
________________________________
Responding to you Yankee and Sox fans..
It gives me great pleasure watching both of your teams lose..but nevertheless, Baseball has been ruined..Only a couple teams can afford the great/Star players and now bb is the have and havenot league..It is a marvel when a team like the brewers have a winning season and everyone knows whoever is good on a poor team will be bailing ASAP through free agency..
_____________________________
Newsfront in Indiana: My Son is home for his final predeployment before going to Iraq. We have him home for 3 weeks..
We had all the kids home for Father's Day.
Hope all you Dads out there had a great day yesterday.
Regards,

[cathyf]

Does anyone understand who Krugman, who can't seem to do arithmetic, doesn't understand statistical reasoning, and makes major errors in practically every column, got a tenured gig at Princeton in Economics and the NYT slot?

You're missing the causality there. If Princeton wants an economics professor who believes all of the usual socialist cant that is gospel on modern American campuses, well such a critter can only be found among economists who can't do arithmetic or understand economic or statistical reasoning.

[MarkD]

"The average height of Japanese marines on Guadalcanal was 6'4"

I doubt it. I spent five years in Japan in the 1970s, and I bet I NEVER saw any Japanese who was six foot four. I'm a hair under six feet tall, and I can't tell you how many older places I entered where I had to duck to get in the doorway.

Things are different now and the average Japanese kid is several inches taller than before. It is no longer unusual to see men approximately my height.

My wife's family is on the short side, even for Japan. At a hair under five feet, she is the tallest in her family. We take our share of the blame for the shortening of America.

[Jack Tanner]

Gee-awd - save paper and bandwidth - condense all these columns down to America sux - on a side note since I've heard since I was in HS Americans can't be good in soccer because they're too tall - maybe they'll be better then - then will you hear Eurotrash cry

[Tom Maguire]

Kidding? The only time these guys mention WWII or the Depression is its effect on lowering American heights. No mention of the devastation in Europe.

[maryrose]

My son is 6'2' and no one else in my or my husband's family has ever been taller than 5'11'. Go figure!

[sylvia]

"My son is 6'2' and no one else in my or my husband's family has ever been taller than 5'11'. Go figure!"

Well it might not work exactly like you think. I read somewhere that your kids are the average of the parents heights - plus 3 inches for a son, and minus 3 inches for a daughter. I tried figuring that out on all the people I know and in general it seems to work out pretty well with some variance.

So if you're 5' 11'' and you're husband is 5' 11', then your son should be 5' 11' plus 3 inches, which equals 6 ft 2. See- works our perfectly!