Gonzo Blogging

Let's have a Gonzales commemorative open thread.  I'll tee it off with two posts from the Captain - the first wonders whether Albert ought to be spending time with his family, and the second wonders who was lying to whom about a briefing on some secret program or other. 

Let me toss in the Times dance on this.  I have added emphasis to Jane Harman's circle-squaring comment, to wit, "The program had different parts, but there was only one program":

But some Congressional Democrats disputed Mr. Gonzales’s account of the White House meeting, and Justice Department aides acknowledged in a background briefing for reporters after the hearing that his “linguistic parsing” had caused confusion.

Senator John D. Rockefeller IV, who attended the 2004 meeting as the top Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, called Mr. Gonzales’s account “untruthful.” Mr. Rockefeller said he believed Mr. Gonzales was deliberately misleading Congress about the showdown over the N.S.A. program inside the Bush administration.

...

Mr. Gonzales’s account added fresh detail to what was previously known about the hospital confrontation in which Mr. Ashcroft, who had had gallbladder surgery, and other senior Justice Department officials had threatened to resign until President Bush agreed to modify the program.

His account also contrasted sharply with the recollection of James B. Comey, a former deputy attorney general who worked under both Mr. Ashcroft and Mr. Gonzales. Mr. Comey testified before the committee in May that he had been “very angry” during the hospital encounter because “I thought I had just witnessed an effort to take advantage of a very sick man.”

Mr. Comey said he and Mr. Ashcroft had serious reservations about renewing the surveillance authorization based on a legal review by the Justice Department. The intelligence-gathering operation was later modified, in ways that are still not clear, to overcome Mr. Ashcroft and Mr. Comey’s main objections.

At the hearing, several senators attacked Mr. Gonzales’s assertions under oath in testimony last year that there had been no disagreement inside the Bush administration over the N.S.A. surveillance program.

Mr. Specter asked Mr. Gonzales, “What credibility is left for you when you say there’s no disagreement?”

In answers that seemed to perplex and further exasperate senators, Mr. Gonzales said his past testimony about the program was correct. He said there was no debate about the N.S.A. program whose existence was confirmed by Mr. Bush in December 2005, after it was disclosed by The New York Times.

He insisted, however, that there were other “intelligence activities” that prompted the dispute in 2004 in which Mr. Ashcroft, Mr. Comey and other Justice Department officials had threatened to quit.

Some senators expressed disbelief at the distinction Mr. Gonzales was seeking to make. “You’re not being straightforward with this committee,” Senator Charles E. Schumer, Democrat of New York, said. “You’re deceiving us.”

Senator Russ Feingold, Democrat of Wisconsin, a Judiciary Committee member who also sits on the Intelligence Committee and has been briefed on the classified N.S.A. activities, said he was “appalled” by Mr. Gonzales’s testimony. “I believe your testimony is misleading at best,” Mr. Feingold said. He said he could not elaborate in an unclassified hearing.

Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, Democrat of Rhode Island, who also sits on both the Judiciary and Intelligence Committees said he agreed with Mr. Feingold, stating, “I have exactly the same perception.”

Other lawmakers who were not at the hearing but who attended the meeting on March 10, 2004 at the White House, also challenged Mr. Gonzales’s account. Mr. Rockefeller and Representative Jane Harman of California, who in 2004 was the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, insisted that there was only one N.S.A. program, making Mr. Gonzales’s assertions inaccurate.

“The program had different parts, but there was only one program,” Ms. Harman said, adding that Mr. Gonzales was “selectively declassifying information to defend his own conduct,” which she called improper.

But another member of the Gang of Eight — the Republican and Democratic leaders of the Senate and House and of the two Intelligence Committees _— supported Mr. Gonzales’s version. Speaking on condition of anonymity, he confirmed the attorney general’s testimony that the group reached a “consensus” that the disputed intelligence activity should continue and that passing emergency legislation would risk revealing secrets.

Speaker Nancy Pelosi of California, who attended the 2004 White House meeting as House Democratic minority leader, said through a spokesman that she did not dispute that the majority of those present supported continuing the intelligence activity. But Ms. Pelosi said she dissented and supported Mr. Comey’s objections at the meeting, said the spokesman, Brendan Daly.

I think it is astonishing that a Cabinet officer can come in and display such low regard for Congress - astonishing and yes, in a way, inspiring.  In fact, I think Congress ought to call Gonzales back and invite him to make balloon animals, or perhaps tell a few flatulence jokes.  Why not?

 

Comments

[Neo]

Senator Charles E. Schumer, Democrat of New York, said. “You’re deceiving us.”

LOL

an instantiation of mobius logic.

[clarice]

I think TM has accurately summarized the state of Congress at the moment. Don Surber suggests if Congress wants to improve its dismal ratings it should adopt the plan we've set for Iraq..you know secure the borders, exploit their petro resources and can the August holiday. Very good suggestions. His best idea is that they stop calling themselves Congress and take on a new name--Sara Lee.

[Neo]

“The program had different parts, but there was only one program,” Ms. Harman said, adding that Mr. Gonzales was “selectively declassifying information to defend his own conduct,” which she called improper.

I also especially liked this piece of logic.

How dare Gonzales use classified information to defend himself ? Perhaps, a "closed" hearing ? Oh no.

I mean, Gonzales must defend himself with both hands tied behind his back. It has the "Catch 22" feel to it. Or is that "Les Miserables" ? With a mix of "Star Chamber".

[Carol Herman]

In for a dime, in for a dollar. Let the Supreme Court solve it.

Congress-critters come to DC every two years; and this little "skirmish" is between opposing views of the Constitution. It seems to me, congress is not asking constituents what they should do.

And, it's also possible that the GOP kiesters are actually "growing pairs of balls" between them. Something not seen on the GOP. EVER. IN RECENT MEMORY.

Most people in America wouldn't trust Leaky Leahy. And, they're fully aware of the hostility there is "over there" to our President.

WHY this is on-going, however, has something to do with all the ammunition the press has expended so far. It really is just like another civil war. But instead of Richmond, Virginia going up in flames; it's all the bridges once owned by the MSM. And, now replaced by the Internet.

Gonzales HAS the president's support!

What can the Congress critters do?

They can scream.

And, they can do name-calling.

When Nixon went down this was done against Haldeman and Erlichman; who were portrayed as gestopo. Gonzales doesn't even come close to being in this category.

And, Bush is very familiar with this on-going war.

I'll even add that the reason they're going after Gonzales, is that the news from Irak has IMPROVED.

So, in a sense, this fight is a "change of subject." On the other end of the scope? Wiggling it around a bit, I can see that Gonzales represents the hispanic voters. And, where's Bush's down side in this fight?

By the way, because Hillary is in line for the Bonkey nomination; she should be concerned enough that it's the antics of the Bonkey clowns in congress that will ADD to her un-electablity; which does depend on the goodwill of the People. It's not just to her hips, alone, a defeat, ahead can be attached. It's the whole monkey business.

The original Ma & Pa Kettle Show was an attempt at being "cute" ... about intermarried cousins living in the Ozarks. But what gets delivered over time from matches like that? Genetic defects.

I think congress hasn't found its footing, yet.

And, Bush just has to stay in office until January 20, 2009. If Nixon were alive, today; he'd tell Bush that ahead, it's gonna be a cake walk. That once the fall rolls around, Americans will take more issue with the defeatist party, than they took when John Kerry, and his wife's money, was the challenge.

It's America. Challenges are the name of the political game. It's never gonna be a bed of roses.

By now, congress is DESPERATE! They've even slapped Karl Rove with "contempt." Shows ya. They didn't learn a thing from Armatage's show. And, Fitzmas' shinanigans.

History will take a better look. In time.

[bubarooni]

so, at the end of the day we will find out that the prosecutors weren't pursuing the admin's goals and a judge will affirm the executives power to fire his own employees who don't pursue his goals?

[clarice]

Schumer's Comey, that self-referential diva, surely is a gift that keeps on giving, isn't he?

[Cecil Turner]

Simply inspiring. Kinda like the warm feeling I get when Specter says he wants to investigate the Supreme Court. As the Federalists warned repeatedly:

We have seen that the tendency of republican governments is to an aggrandizement of the legislative at the expense of the other departments. The appeals to the people, therefore, would usually be made by the executive and judiciary departments. [emphasis added]

Personally, I can't imagine a group less suited for trying to run the Executive and Judicial branches than the one that's proved incompetent at running the Legislative. And I think we'd all be a lot better served if Congress would start legislating instead. If Sen Specter needs a suggestion, those overdue budget bills would be a great place to start.

[PaulL]

No one, save for political junkies and the MSM, cares about Alberto or any of these silly hearings. Since there's no there there, it doesn't resonate with average Americans.

[Neo]

Sens. Schumer, Sheldon, Feinstein and Russ Feingold demand special counsel to investigate whether Attorney General Alberto Gonzales perjured himself during Capitol Hill testimony.

[clarice]

Demand and hold their breaths I hope. Only the AG can do that, and he ain't going to. And there is no independent prosecutor.
Tey a new trick, Schmucky.

[EH]

Clinton did it too!

[anduril]

I think Congress ought to call Gonzales back and invite him to ... tell a few flatulence jokes.

Posted by Tom Maguire on July 26, 2007 | Permalink

I'm afraid that's what Congress has made of itself.

[danking70]

I keep wondering when the Dems will hit molten lava with all the digging they've been doing.

[danking70]

I keep wondering when the Dems will hit molten lava with all the digging they've been doing.

[TerryeL]

I don't think Gonzales should quit. I know some conservatives do not like him because they doubt he is really truly one of them...but I kind of like his spunk myself.

And listening to politicians whine about someone deceiving them is a real hoot.

[Neo]

I gather 14% approval for Congress was just too high. They have plans of being #1.

[BobS]

Hmmmmmm......

Methinks this playbook is somehow familiar. And the Schumer-Comey ballroom dance couple again......I wonder if Val was at any of those meetings.

(Secret transcript (sic) of illegal wire tap of Senate Dem Judiciary Meeting)

SCHUMER: Here's what we'll do.....lets get another OSP and get another perjury rap going.

LEAHY: Good idea, Godfather...and get a bunch of Kos kids on the jury from DC

SCHUMER: Thats it and lets get...whats that guys name again?.....oh, yeah...Reggie to be the judge!!!!

Deep Throat Dick Comey: And, Godfather, lets see if we can get Russert to play ball again, too.

SCHUMER: remind him of that deal he couldn't refuse the last time.

LEAHY: Yeah, thats the ticket!

SCHUMER: Do we still have AP writers on the payroll?

[Neo]

So Congressional Quarterly tonight reports:

Republicans are uttering a word that for 12 years has been utterly unspeakable.

Shutdown.

Meanwhile ... Democrats claim ...

“They are nihilists. They are jihadists.”

And meanwhile ... the whole "executive privilege" thing has fallen off the map.

[BobS]

The AP's on board and are advancing this;

http://breakingnews.nypost.com/dynamic/stories/C/CONGRESS_GONZALES?SITE=NYNYP&SECTION=HOME

Ther two writers offer no support in their article that Mueller contradicted Gonzales and he wasn't even in the room at the time. And gonzales never said the now somehow criminal meeting in Ascrofts hospital room had not been about anything to do with NSA.

[clarice]

It, too, has a Plamelike aura. The charges involve a still secret program which Gonzales cannot talk about publicly. So he finds himself in a position not unlike the Administration when Wilson peddled his lies.

[clarice]

It, too, has a Plamelike aura. The charges involve a still secret program which Gonzales cannot talk about publicly. So he finds himself in a position not unlike the Administration when Wilson peddled his lies.

[anduril]

clarice, re "a Plamelike aura," I just saw this item at Ace of Spades, linked by lgf:

Scott Thomas Got His Job For Plame-ish Reasons

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/234925.php

[TerryeL]

Ed is all upset. He says that Gonzo should quit if he lied and Mueller contradicted him, blah blah blah.

People need to ease up and get the facts.

We had an inservice the other day at work on Universal Precautions. Before the meeting was over someone ask a question about paperwork. Now if someone asked me if I went to a meeting about paperwork or universal precautions and I said the latter, would that make me a liar?

The truth is we were not there and besides, I thought this was supposed to be about fired attorneys not the NSA program. What is next? Are they going to be asking the man when he stopped beating his wife?

[anduril]

Apologies to everyone who's been following the Scott Thomas Beauchamp story, but the new details--new to me since earlier today--are quite amazing.

[Seixon]

This is so funny. First of all, who's to say there weren't a number of meetings/briefings on March 10, 2004? Second, who's to say that many different topics were not brought up at these?

I mean, they're basically trying to prove that anyone who talked to Bob Novak on the same day he talked to Armitage was actually the one who leaked about Plame... I mean, after all, they talked to Novak on the same day!

Now Mueller says, according to AP or whatever, that they discussed "a NSA program". Oh noes! Not "a NSA program"! That must be the TSP, for the NSA has no other programs! Mueller, spell it out for us:

"The discussion was on a national NSA program that has been much discussed, yes."

Oh noes! Not a NSA program that has been much discussed! I mean, that could only be the TSP! Let's just forget that whole part where the NSA was getting call records from phone companies and all that. Sssshhh.

Looks like they've got Gonzo pegged. Or, I guess pigeon-holed is the word I'm looking for.

[MayBee]

Will Harriet be thrown in jail in the basement of the Capitol? That would be a totally respectable move by Congress, demonstrating their high regard for the Executive branch.

[MayBee]

I keep forgetting why the Senate Judiciary Committee is asking the Attorney General about his hospital visit with the former AG.
Can somebody remind me?

[patch]

I'm annoyed...

No contract on Tradesport yet on Gonzo's survival chances.

[TerryeL]

MayBee:

hell if I know, I thought this was all about the shameful firing of 8 fine civil servants myself. And now here we are in Aschcroft's hospital room and conservative bloggers like Ed Morrisey are all for lynching AG. Poor bastard.

[RichatUF]

Neo...

Republicans are uttering a word that for 12 years has been utterly unspeakable.

Shutdown.

I think I'm going to get misty eyed. The government can run for a year or two [my thinking, 543-ish days]. Shut it down

[maryerose]

Schumer, Leahy et al just can't get anything substantial on the firings-President Bush has shut down that dog and pony show. Tony Snow says they've got"bupkis" and I believe him. There are 2 or more programs in this NSA-snafu and misunderstanding and top secret info about them precludes extensive disclosures to these congressional buttheads.
They did manage to pass 89 to 1 3 billion more for border security. I wonder if Obama and Clinton were on hand to vote for that?

[BobS]

I do not like to disagree with Ed Morrissey, but I do here. Ed's consistent though. He was also supportive of Scooter Libby being convicted as Ed felt he had lied. The pausibilty of that lie is ceratinly something thats arguable. I suppose that as if this involves truthfulness, Ed's sense of values prompts his position on Gonzales.

I must say though that if indeed Gonzales is covering for another program that is top secret, I'd be lying as well. Its a partisan dem fishing expedition that prioritises political points over anything to do with national security. Dems have put party before country now since Viet Nam.

[MikeS]

I think Gonzales may be dumb like a fox. To the Dems he is like a reverse Chauncey Gardener, no matter what he says they are infuriated. While Gonzales lies against the ropes and keeps them occupied with beating on him, the Democrat Congress’s poll numbers are tanking every way they can. Citizens don’t seem to like the behavior of this Congress, but they are so furious they can’t seem to stop themselves.

[RichatUF]

clarice-

The charges involve a still secret program which Gonzales cannot talk about publicly. So he finds himself in a position not unlike the Administration when Wilson peddled his lies.

At this rate, the Schumer crew might get the Postmaster General strung up in the tangled lies. I'm interested if this is some back door way to leak some program that has been having some success. The problem being that so few know specific details that they can't pull up a chair in Sultzberg's office.

Anyway hasn't this story circulated around for nearly 2 years and getting sort of stale

[centralcal]

I am not a fan of AG, but I am sick to death of the nonsense with the Dems. I agree with TerryeL.

[Sue]

I was listening on the radio today to someone trying to explain why it was criminal for a political appointee to be fired for political reasons. My head hurt.

[TerryeL]

Well come on, why would AG lie about something like that? It is not a crime, there is nothing worth hiding and there are people involved that can testify to conversations etc. Logic should tell us that this is the usual witch hunt freak show blowhard grandstanding camera hogging pols showing their behinds for the American people.

I saw that about border security. And here I had been told by all kinds of Tancredo fans that the government would never ever ever do anything about border security because Kyl and his kind had a secret deal with Mexico that would lead to the utter and complete destruction of our country and culture.

People are so damn melodramatic anymore.

Sometimes I wonder whose side certain people are on. Noonan is telling people to stay home and not vote, Malkin is trying to get Republican Senators thrown out of office, conservative bloggers spend more time trying to undermine their own president than they do making life difficult for the likes of Hillary Clinton. Meanwhile they complain about a lack of support for the war. Well, what did they think the result of sabotaging their own party would be?

And now Gonzo is being readied for the neck tie party by people who are supposed to be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Yep, with friends like this the Republicans do not need enemies. I would not vote for Obama or Hillary if you put a gun to my head, but Republicans should not count on a majority feeling that way. They need to start sticking together again and stop attacking each other. I think some people think it is good for their careers or their blogs or their radio shows to stick it to de man, but right now they need to cut that out.

[centralcal]

I started assigning Harry Potter characters to some of our esteemed Senators.

Severus Snape = Arlen Specter
Lucius Malfoy = Patrick Leahy

[centralcal]

Amen, TerreyL! I agree we are eating our own.

And, it's dragging us all down.

[maryerose]

Sue:
There is not bit of proof that this ever happened to any of these fired attorneys. That's why the dems keep going to the well-they can't prove anything so they are screwed! That's why they are so mad. I agree with Spector-Schumer is trying to be tomorrow's headline. The congress should be securing the new FISA rules instead of playing around with this character assasination. Gonzales should sue the lot of them. It seems to work for the Plames.

[BobS]

The Dark Lord: Schumer

[maryerose]

centracal:
Excellent casting,How about:
Hillary-Bellatrix
Voldemort: Chuck Schumer
Pettigrew:Kerry or
Kerry: Fudge

[RichatUF]

TerryeL

...all kinds of Tancredo fans that the government would never ever ever do anything about border security because Kyl and his kind had a secret deal with Mexico that would lead to the utter and complete destruction of our country and culture...

I've run across a few of these-almost like troothers...usually some variation of Ron Paul "supporter". I usually point out the following: Canada GDP 1 Trillion, Mexico GDP 1 Trillion, California GDP 1.6 Trillion, Texas GDP .9 Trillion...The US is not in any danger of changing to an Amerso (or whatever the loons are calling), both Mexico and Canada are in danger of losing their currency...the immigration issue is tough enough without those loons introducing paranoid elements into it

[centralcal]

I agree with your choices maryerose, except for Voldemort. That especially evil character I think needs more thought. Schumer is a schmuck and needs a more slimy character.

Liberals = Death eaters
Conservatives = Order of the Phoenix

Lord knows we sure need to rise from the ashes our congressional leaders have made of themselves on so many occasions.

[luerker]

I agree with terryeL that Gonzo should stay until the end of the term. Besides, there are only a few more months to go. Time will go by so fast. By July next year, Gonzo would become "lame duck AG" unless something drastic happens.

I disagree that Schumer is Severus Snape. Leahy might be the white-haired guy whose son was an opponent of Potter.

[RichatUF]

maryerose-

There is not bit of proof that this ever happened to any of these fired attorneys.

It doesn't matter really: they could have asked what their party affiliation was and fired all the D's...I still don't know why the Bush administration doesn't just start firing people as a matter of principle...He could fire 5 or 6 more US Attorneys...some senior staff over at Justice, State, Defense, DHS...give them the AL Dunlap treatment

[luerker]

And this whole thing about the House and Senate Judiciary Committees subponeaing and issuing contempts against Meirs and Bolten is so ridiculous.

[centralcal]

leurker read my post above.

Severus Snape is Arlen Specter (same voice)
Lucius Malfoy is Leahy (white haired guy)

[MayBee]

This is smoke to cover the now-revealed fact that Dems were consulted about these programs. It seems that Comey took both the admin and the gang of 8 by surprise with his refusal to re-certify the two year old program.
We aren't hearing about that. We're hearing that AG lied about his trip to the hospital room, and his cryptic comments about the program were also a lie.

Given that the AG, the Office of the President, and members of Congress had been working together on this program for the prior 2 years, why WOULDN'T they have wanted to ask Ashcroft if his new-to the admin, temporary replacement was speaking for him when he refused the re-certifcation?

[centralcal]

RichatUF:

Yes, fire away. Please start with Fitz.