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July 03, 2007

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Jeff Dobbs

Merry Fitzmas!

Poppy

I don't think you can fault the liberal logic here:

Libby lied when he said he was suprised when Russert mentioned Wilsons wife sent him to Niger.

1. We know this because: Russert had stated in an earlier interview that he wasn't sure what exactly was said.

2. He had in the past claimed he never made a phone call that he in fact had made.

3. Russert was in a jam because he kind of lied to the court about talking to the FBI, Fitz promised Russert he wouldn't mention that little slip if he would only cooperate.

This Russert waqs absolutely sure what exactl was said when it came to the trial.

Thus you put all that together and you have Libby intentionallly lied about his conversion with Russert, it wasn't a mistake, it wasn't with Novak, and therefore he obstructed Fitz finding out about Armitage leaking to Novak and Bob Woodward, which Fitz already knew so the proverbial 'sand in the face' came after the entire game, no, the entire season was over and Fitz was following Libby out to his car with a baseball bat after a few pints in the bar.

Given all that, Cheney then must have told Libby to out Plame, although there is no evidence.

Given that Cheney told Libby, Bush must have order Cheney, because there is no evidence of that either, therefore since we have no evidenc, that directly links Bush to lying about WMD, because noone have ever heard of Iraq and WMD until Bush came to town.

Is this starting to make sense??

clarice

Schumer had asked for clemency for Pollard for Chrissake!

Hillary had originally refused to answer questions about a pardon for Libby at the AFSME convention and then stupidly jumped on the bandwagon--trust me, even her witchy brain trust knows this is a loser for her.

Wilson's back on the NBC/MSNBC circuit and
all's right with the world.

clarice

PS TM, check you email and phone messages.

Carol_Herman

It's a wonderful day!

Bush pushed the jail sentence away; but not the freak show at the applets to the supreme-o's. He made a good investment in Excutive privilege. And, he probably gave the GOP, in the future, a way to deal, successfully, with the litigious Bonkeys.

His numbers, which had swooned so low he was scraping Jimmy who? Are not about to rise. With the incoming information on Irak. Where, again, Americans are backing the military, with polls showing this at 70%.

Yes, Irak hit low points. But never as low as what Abraham Lincoln had to contend. Nor, even, FDR. And, I think Americans are looking for some presidencial successes, ahead, as well.

The luggage? Stuck to the behind of Arlen Specter. Could there be a revolt, ahead, behind the velvet curtains of the senate? Don't ask me. I'm not the Oracle at Delphi.

windansea

TM

thanks for all the great posts and fun times at JOM

now what? :)

enjoy the 4th!

Jeff Dobbs

TM:
Advantage Obama

From the last thread, Obama's response to the news:

This decision to commute the sentence of a man who compromised our national security cements the legacy of an Administration characterized by a politics of cynicism and division, one that has consistently placed itself and its ideology above the law. This is exactly the kind of politics we must change so we can begin restoring the American people’s faith in a government that puts the country’s progress ahead of the bitter partisanship of recent years.
Jeff Dobbs

Jane in the last thread...

Commenting on news of the commutation:
I am so bloody glad. And I'm absolutely convinced it was my email

Commenting on the fact that there wasn't a new thread about the commutation:
TM needs to get back from the beach and start a new thread!


Jane gets results.

BobS

Happiness is a new thread.

And I'm glad someone else noted Fitz over-the-top response to the President's clemency statement. When the book is written about this is written that is factual and not told via AP headlines or NBC perhaps it can be named after the jury -maybe something like:

"Twelve Angry Kos Kids"

So, Clarice...when IS that book coming out?

Pal2Pal (Sara)

Via Althouse:

David Brooks recounts Plamegate. (TimesSelect link.) He calls Joe Wilson
a strutting little peacock," a "charming P.T. Barnum," and "an inveterate huckster," who only got attention because of Dick Cheney's "unfailing talent for vindictive self-destruction."

Scooter Libby emerged as the least absurd character in the entire drama, and yet he was the one who committed a crime. President Bush entered the stage like a character from another world, a world in which things make sense.

His decision to commute Libby’s sentence but not erase his conviction was exactly right. It punishes him for his perjury, but not for the phantasmagorical political farce that grew to surround him. It takes away his career, but not his family.

Cecil Turner

Y'know, I was initially unimpressed with the whole commutation thing. But watching the nutroots' collective blood pressures rise to the point they're startin' to blow gaskets, I'm starting to think it's not so bad. Heh.

But the real lesson learned here is that special prosecutors are inherently out-of-control. And the appointment issue, far from being a technicality, addresses the root problem of chartering an investigator who has a vested interest in skipping blithely over the actual crime (or non-crime) to pursue "obstruction" of his non-investigation. And though I continue to believe in Libby's actual innocence, I'd be very surprised if he continues with the appeal, as vindication seems unlikely, and the pursuit is very expensive. Which begs the question of an eventual pardon, which again appears unlikely.

windansea

I'm starting to think it's not so bad.

as Al Davis said "just win baby"


Appalled Moderate

My stray thoughts:

1. Fitz was awfully graceless. Bush was not criticizing him for being a prosecutor and asking for the book to be thrown. To the extent anyone should be peeved, it should be Walton, who was responsible for the sentence. But then, I don't recall Walsh or Starr handling their treatment at the hands of politicians well, either.

2. Cecil -- you're simply wrong. Bush's approach is the correct ones for both reasons of justice (the ultimate punishment approximates the plea deal Clinton struck at the end of his presidency for a "crime" that was awfully similar) and for reasons of expediency (Congress annot compel Libby to testify because his testimony could prejudice his appeals). I haven't complimented Bush often in the last three years, but I'll do so now. I love it when the right thing to do turn out to be the slick thing to do. By the way, CT, if you want to see how a man in the midst of an apoplectic fit blogs, check out Andrew Sullivan's site.

3. Considering his constituency and his large thematic message, Obama handled this pardon absolutely right. I'm sure H&R is awash with cynicism about this, but this seems well-played. (Hillary, on the other hand, should have just said she had not studied the issue and did not think it was appropriate to comment.)

Other Tom

Good God--is there a remaining sentient being who discounts the value of the sheer joy in watching the Moonbat reaction? Can there be any doubt that it played at least some part in Dubya's thinking? You know damn well he'd been refreshed about Schumer and Pollard, Marc Rich, Sandy Berger, all the rest. I think he did this, in part, for the same reason he keeps saying "nuke-you-lar"--it just drives them up the wall.

Side note: On the previous thread I used the search function with my oen name in order to go to wherever I had left off. I got a hit somewhere in an interminable screed by poor ol' Major Chch, still floating strangely out there, observing that the earth is blue. He was apparently trying to convey something to me. Note to Major Chch: I hope you won't think me rude, but some time ago I stopped reading anything at all that you write. I can spot it instantly, and when I do I just scroll down at max speed. I do not know anything about what you are saying, and thus will not respond. If you wish to communicate with me, you must find some medium other than this site. I suggest you re-establish contact with Ground Control, and ask them to put you through.

But hey, pal--Keep Hope Alive. Keep Hope Alive.

Poppy

"""Considering his constituency and his large thematic message, Obama handled this pardon absolutely right. """

Obama showed himself to be an un-informed tool. He claimed Libby comprimised National Security which never, ever happened.

He smeared Libby as a traitor, when the Liberals hate to be called traitors when you happen to mentioned their support for the other side.

And just why did Barry change his name to Barack?

Pal2Pal (Sara)

I just heard a blurb a few minutes ago, and I'm sorry but I was walking through the room and not paying close attention, but it was something to the effect that ONLY Hillary has referenced the car bomb plot in the UK of all the democrat party Presidential candidates. I'm not sure if any other dems have mentioned it either. Who can possibly think about electing any one of these clowns?

clarice

Sorry, AM, I must take issue with Obama--How exactly did Libby harm national security by thinking Russert told him? That man is turning me into a cynic very fast.

Other Tom

I'm with you, AppMod. I think this one is made to order for Obama, and is something that Hillary should hope will just go away. And for all his many faults, Bush is indeed a gracious man--perhaps too gracious to do well in the environment in which he finds himself. Like his hapless father, he actually seems to think that if you treat Teddy Kennedy like a gentleman, he will respond in kind.

Appalled Moderate

clarice:

Obama has a job to do -- get elected by his electorate through promoting a message of rising above partisan bickering. He did his job without hurting anybody. In politics -- one takes what one can get.

No Democrat can endorse this commutaton in the same way no Republican could agree that at least some of Clinton's last pardons were justified (or any Democrat could agree that Bush I's Iran-Contra pardons were justified).

Pal2Pal (Sara)

Other Tom - I don't know why GWB in all his years in politics starting at his Dad's and Ronald Reagan's knee in childhood and young adulthood, he has not learned the differences between those with graciousness and those who only know the survival of the fittest of the streets, knife 'em in the back before they knife you mindset.

I was raised in a similar environment as GWB and had a lot of trouble with this issue when I first got on my own. I did not realize for a long time that all the people I had to deal with had not been taught the same social graces I had been taught were absolutely necessary to succeed in this world. GWB and I are almost the same age, give a few months, and it was a different time back then. I remember how shocking it was for me to have someone take my words of compassion and call me out as [fill in the blank]. And how shocked I was when my Mother-in-law lashed out one day, "well you were raised rich and educated and think you are entitled to be treated with respect, it is different for the rest of us." Huh?

clarice

I am cynical because he made a statement which was inflammatory and wrong as a matter of fact precisely for partisan political advantage--the issue hurts Hillary and the more she tries to jump on the Scooter the more everyone remembers the last minute Bill pardons for pay.

The woman has a tin ear and Obama is as partisan an in fighter and as cynical a manipulator of public opinion as anyone else.

Pal2Pal (Sara)

Oh good Lord, Mother Moonbat is baaaaaaaaaack!!!

Breaking: Libby half-pardon forces St. Cindy back into politics

gmax

Paul at Powerline is asking the same questions I did this am, what about the socialized medicine of Great Britain disincents people to take up medicine and thereby requires the expedited importation of doctors?

PAUL adds: At the Corner, Mark Steyn, Iain Murray, and Stanley Kurtz make note of the high percentage of non-British doctors practicing in England under the NHS. Socialized medicine, it seems, tends to chase British doctors into other careers or other countries.

Can I get an amen from Sister Hill?

PatrickR

anduril has a good post over at Beldar's blog:

The sand that Libby threw in Fitz's eyes was really his correction of his FBI interview and stubborn refusal to return (under oath) to his original, speculative statement about what Cheney may "possibl[y]" have told him to do. If Libby had not spoken loosely about possibilities he would almost certainly never have found himself in this position, despited his faulty recollection. Libby couldn't be indicted for correcting his initial statements, so Fitz had to go with the weak and non-material statements to reporters. The indictment was the last gasp at flipping Libby, who remained unflippable. But there was no going back from the indictment and Libby forced a trial by his refusal to buckle to the pressure.
Jeff Dobbs

AM:
I'm sure H&R is awash with cynicism about this, but this seems well-played.

Clarice:
That man is turning me into a cynic very fast.

Clarice, welcome to the club.

AM, I will agree that Obama's "constituency" has no reason to question his Obamessiah Gospel and this will play very well with them.

But it is, in fact, objectively cynical of him to use it. He's playing the politics right, getting the substance wrong.

And that means any trope about ending cynicism and division is tripe.

Now, on to awashing myself in beer.

Carol_Herman

Well, some go for the Madonna in the Ditch mode; I tend to keep looking at the field that holds all the nominees running for nominations in 2008. Including, if the Bonkeys keep it up, a Bloomberg "expense paid" run for Independent. WHich gives ya lots of candidates still to choose from.

Is it possible Obama is now leading Hillary? That ticket looks like a two-fer. And, all the republicans have to do is keep their eyes peeled on who will be MOST electible.

Guilini? Tops out for this 2nd quarter at $15-million, raised. And, Mitt Romney at $14-million.

Fred's not a candidate, yet. And, he'll probably attempt "shoe-string" politics, just the same; heavily dependent on traffic from the Net. And, those lame mainstream shows, that pull him in to raise ratings. Thereby, getting more clips up on U-Tube. It's a marriage made in heaven.

What's interesting is that Bush doesn't run again. Bush did run into resistance from his base. WHereby he snookered the Bonkeys to hit their horns.

Yes, fer shur, "if" Mother Moonbat came out of her cave; it's either because it's a slow news day, so the MSM answered her squawking calls. And, it's much more fun on the Internet.

A win not just for Libby; but for Internet users, too. My, my fingers are happy.

centralcal

Sara: It is probably good that Cindy is back. It will drive the Dem candidates crazy. Most of the public associates her with them (liberals and liberal media) and the crazier she is, the better for our side.

Cindy going quietly into that good night was really good news for Dems, so I for one and glad she's back and as moonbatty as ever!

Cecil Turner

I love it when the right thing to do turn out to be the slick thing to do.

I'd be far more impressed if I thought it was the right thing to do.

The indictment was the last gasp at flipping Libby, who remained unflippable.

If one actually reads Libby's testimony, the thing that stands out is that he doesn't remember. The only thing he thought he remembered (the conversation with Russert) turned out to be wrong. The trial testimony showed he was in good company . . . nobody else remembered either.

What this proves, beyond any reasonable doubt, is that Plame's identity wasn't very important to anybody (with the possible exception of Armitage). Which pretty much debunks the whole premise behind the supposed conspiracy to "out" someone nobody knew was covert (if she was). Which makes the whole "flipping" concept a bit of a joke. That said, I concur with Beldar that it looks exactly like that was Fitz's plan all along . . . combined with a similarly nonsensical fixation on the NIE declassification. And it's a pretty good indicator he oughta find a new line of work. (Or be very closely supervised in anything requiring judgment.)

gmax

Aquote from Ian at the Corner:

The high proportion of foreign physicians is indeed down to a lack of British Doctors - not just from lack of students, but also because many trained Doctors choose to pursue other careers. Life in the NHS is not a rewarding experience. A family member of mine who is so highly regarded as a Doctor that she has won a prize carrying a substantial annual stipend for the rest of her life has withdrawn from clinical treatment because she was constantly asked to make life-or-death decisions based on the rationing of resources (you won't hear that story in Sicko). The socialization of medicine in the UK is responsible for a lot of problems. The importation of terrorists is just one of them.

Oh lets get some nationalized health care shall we?

Pal2Pal (Sara)

Centralcal -- as one blogger noted, at least her retirement from politics lasted slightly longer than her fast.

Mother Moonbat gives bloggers oodles and oodles of material, so we love her for that. I like your point about giving the dems fits.

centralcal

Alan Dershowitz on Libby at HuffPo:

"This was entirely a political case from beginning to end.

Libby's actions were political.

The decision to appoint a special prosecutor was political.

The trial judges' rulings were political.

The appellate court judges' decision to deny bail was political.

And the president's decision to commute the sentence was political.

But only the president acted within his authority by acting politically in commuting the politically motivated sentence."

Pal2Pal (Sara)

Pretty much sums it up, doesn't it?

BobS

When will some member of the media finally stand and ask to Tim Russert:

"So, Tim, did Peter Fitzgerald snare you in his little perjury trap game along with Scooter Libby?"

I know...out of the blue.

Forgive me as I'm just so inspired by Cindy ShSh's return.

BobS

Sigh...only Sara and Carol understand my warped mind.

SMGalbraith

I'm of the mind (there's an opening for you to take) that Libby should have served six months and then Bush could have commuted the sentence in December (nice Fitzmas, er Christmas gift).

From everything I've read, I have no doubt as to the patriotism of Libby. This silly "treason" charge is just that silly (I'd sure wish those who throw the treason charge would learn its requirements, i.e., aid and comfort along with adherence to an enemy; aid and comfort alone don't constitute treason (legally)).

Yes, it's a bit difficult seeing Libby in prison while the loathsome fraud Wilson walks the streets. Such is life.

But it seems to me that Libby did indeed deliberately commit perjury. Wilfully and deliberately and, such, deserves at least some jail time (high government officials and all that).

Why? He screwed up. He leaked Plame's name without realizing the danger in doing so. Whether Big Time authorized that or not is another story; my guess is probably.

Six months. Out for Christmas.

SMG

Cecil Turner

Why? He screwed up. He leaked Plame's name without realizing the danger in doing so.

Sorry, it doesn't wash. He claimed he leaked it to Cooper (even though Cooper says he was the one who brought it up and Libby was noncommittal) . . . further, he admitted leaking to Judy (the only person he may have actually leaked to), just at the latter meeting, and not the first. None of that is an alibi for leaking, which makes the "lied to cover up a leak" theory dubious at best; but it's perfectly consistent with a faulty memory.

SunnyDay

Posted by: PatrickR | July 03, 2007 at 04:53 PM

******************
Patrick I just want everyone to know, they stole my theory. I think even the hefty sentence was an attempt to flip Libby - after he got in prison, he might have reconsidered, and I'm sure Fitzfong would have promised to ask for early release for him if he would only.

Fitzfong has done that before.

BobS

Speaking of not being a near thing. I'm of the opinion the twelve angry Kos Kids jury weren't sure they could sell it either. The ones who talked only wanted to talk about Rove and Cheney. Talk about an agenda. And didn't more than one hope that Bush pardoned him anyhow. At any rate, I was always amazed by the amount of post-its notes they took to connect the dots in the he-said she-said game that Fitzgerald kept selling.

PeterUK.

The problem with Britain's National Health Service are legion,one principle problem is that it is a political football,nobody lost votes by calling for more money for the NHS.Politicians do and undo each others work in the inimitable,ignorant way that politicians will.
Secondly it is the fiefdom of the unions and collective bargaining.
Thirdly it is immensely bureaucratic,at one time reputedly the largest single employer outside the Red Army.
Regional Health Authorities are packed with political place men,often a party sinecure.
Free at the point of use,the NHS is a magnet for health shoppers from across the world,even from the US,if you have a serious long term ailment get on the plane.
There are also race quotas,employees must measure up to some mythical multicultural norm.
These are just some of the systemic problems,so is it any wonder that a newly qualified doctor,having been used a slave labour throughout training finds it more attractive to treat cellulite in Palm rather than toil under the yoke of a vast creaking bureaucracy? Besides the money is better.

Foo Bar

He claimed he leaked it to Cooper (even though Cooper says he was the one who brought it up and Libby was noncommittal) . . . further, he admitted leaking to Judy

Now, now. Let's not get sloppy.

Pal2Pal (Sara)

Sigh...only Sara and Carol understand my warped mind.

Posted by: BobS | July 03, 2007 at 05:32 PM

I'm not sure what this referring to, so I'll just say BobS, it takes one to know one. ::smile::

PeterUK.

Isn't what happened to Mr Libby one of the pernicious techniques of modern prosecution.Forget evidence, embroil the accused in a massively expensive and endless farrago with the option of making a plea bargain,simply to end it.
Helps if some star witness if offered immunity,doesn't sound like truth and justice to me.

Pal2Pal (Sara)

Has the President been dieting, he looks much thinner in his press briefings these last couple days?

Rick Ballard

Peter,

Letting ¿Asian? doctors substitute "Allahu Akbar" for the Hippocratic oath is just taking multiculturalism to its logical end.

Is there any way that a movement might be started to get all Labour leaders under the care of only ¿Asian? doctors? Challenge them to do it as a gesture of solidariety and then publish a primer in Urdu that explains a simpler method of acquiring a harem of 72.

Seems like a sensible solution to me.

PeterUK.

Obviously worrying about Scooter Libby Sara.

Cecil Turner

Now, now. Let's not get sloppy.

Touche. Change: "leaked it to," and "leaking to"; to "discussed it with" and "discussing it with."

PeterUK.

Mr Ballard,
"Is there any way that a movement might be started to get all Labour leaders under the care of only ¿Asian? doctors?"

Yes parachute them into the Tribal areas of Pakistan,community fact finding missions.

maryrose

TM:
First off thank for the many wonderful posts on this topic!
Sunnyday:
I concur with your assessment that all tried to ratchet up the pressure to make Libby flip to no avail.
Bobs;
I get you and think you are funny but not as hilarious as H&R.
CT,Mr. Ballard, clarice,et al:
Your analysis and attention to detail has been fantastic. Keeping to the facts you have captured the essence of this fandango of a case.
Saw Wilson on Hardball with Matthews and could not contain my glee! He is mad as a hornet and thinks he is being punished for being a democrat by this administration. He was at his banished site in Santa Fe , New Mexico still insisting that all the bad men had ruined his wife's life. Pathetic has been with a beard to go with that very important hair. To me he just looked like a loser.
FWIW: I don't think Cheney ordered any kind of vendetta against Wilson or Plame. Libby proved he wasn't any little boy Dean who spills the beans to get off the hook.

maryrose

should be thanks for...

Rick Ballard

PM Brown (he didn't change his name, did he?) has drawn some mildly negative attention from Protein Wisdom as well as Melanie Phillips.

I didn't know that mention of Muslim's some people's religion had been banned in the UK. I suppose this means that there will be no more islamofascist terror strikes unpleasantness.

What a relief.

Jane

Jane gets results.

It's a damn good thing since I long ago stopped trying to match wits with this crowd.

Gmax, that was my first thought when the whole doctor plot was revealed. Will it have Hillary rethinking her plan to socialize medicine - not if her campaign rhetoric of today is any indication. But it's a hell of a subject to toy with in the general election.

clarice

Yeah, I love the whiff of semtex floating over the lysol aroma in the waiting room.

Carol_Herman

Cecil turner, et.al.

The $$$ about Plame was what was covert! She had what Nixon once had. A safe with cash in it.

The CIA does not want you to find this out. So, they referred to her "cash reserve" as covert. Because they were "covert" funds. Kept away from all oversight. Even peering eyeballs of congress.

It's just amazing that this is still secret.

We keep thinking our government workers are ill-paid. And, they just advance among tracks labeled 15, 16, and such. While it's not just in Harry Potter; that there's a "magic platform," that if you know how to make it open, makes you rich. Gets you to find the funding to send your hubby to sip mint tea in Niger.

Say what you will about the Wilson's, this they knew was very secret.

Perhaps, Fitz will never find out?

And, perhaps, congress lacks all curiosity? Nobody really reads "earmarks," or pork rinds, quite the way government blokes do; when they want to have "spare cash."

When Tenet left? He probably closed the drawer on Plame. And, then he refuses to name her name in his book.

By the way, Rick Ballard, "Unpleasantness," is a Southern Term. Didn't keep them from carrying about racist attitudes, ya know?

By now people know a lot about islam. It's not as if Dubya gets us all wildly enthused for some of the stuff he embraces.

It's like assuming kids don't talk among themselves about sex; and buy, wholesale, the cabbage patch stories. Now, why does Santa Claus get such a good run, I have no idea.

Sue

Man, what a day. You would have thought Bush had pardoned bin Laden from some of the stuff I've been reading about Libby.

lurker9876

FOR THOSE WITH POLITICAL DEMENTIA who have forgotten

about all of those last minute Clinton pardons.

I watched Gibson earlier this afternoon about Bill Clinton helping Hillary. Too bad that the only good thing that Bill has for himself today is his great oratory skills.

He is going to be a great boost or a major mistake to Hillary because of that baggage.

But on the other hand, thinking about the consequences of a Democrat winning the WH in '08 is scary in spite of our unhappiness with the GOP.

I still believe in voting straight Republican in '08 for several reasons:

1. US Supreme Court Justice nominations.
2. Taxes won't be raised as high.
3. Retreat of this war.
4. Rebuilding of the Gorelick Wall by destroying all NSA evidence before they could be handed over to FBI.
5. Repeal of the US Patriot Act.
6. Increasing odds of another 9/11 attack or worse.
7. Increasing perception of corruption and real corruption.
8. Nationalized health care.
9. No immigration reform. Probably grant amnesty to all illegals just to get their votes.
10. No SS reform. Not even thinking about it.

What else?

Oh, think a Democratic President would not have an issue with Fitz continuing to be in his role as a SP and promoting Walton to the next level. Ya think Walton would be nominated for one of the US Supreme Court Justices?

Neither party will be able to rein in earmarks and pork but rather seek more.

Jane, this whole doctor plot will have no affect on Hillary's thinking at all.

How many of you would vote straight Republican in '08? How many do you think will stay at home? How much of a role would the Hispanic vote play into this election? Give the Democrats more votes?

P.S. How nice that chidiot-chidoit hasn't been here at all. It's time for him or her to go.

Sue

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NzE1NDRjMDhjN2Q4MjYwZWVkOWI0NTY2NzEzZDIyYmQ=>That didn't take long.

The House Judiciary Committee has officially announced its plans for a hearing into President Bush's commutation of Scooter Libby's prison term.

I don't understand this part though...

"In light of yesterday's announcement by the President that he was commuting the prison sentence for Scooter Libby, it is imperative that Congress look into presidential authority to grant clemency, and how such power may be abused," John Conyers said.

Are they going to rewrite the constitution?

Jeff Dobbs

Jane:
It's a damn good thing since I long ago stopped trying to match wits with this crowd.


Pshaw. You don't realize your wit because you just speak your mind. But your mind, in its natural state, speaking without any pretense of trying to elicit a response from the gallery, is infinitely witful.

Can I get some wit-ness?

In Jane, yes.

Jane

I see the beer has kicked in H&R. I hope it is a great vacation!

Jeff Dobbs

Sue:
Are they going to rewrite the constitution?

Responding to your quote from the Corner of course....and my response: Holy Guacamole.

Mmmmm, guacamole. Tonight. Gotta run.

lurker9876

NYT loses and a sign that Leahy and Waxman may lose this?

Say what? They want a hearing on Bush's commutation of Libby's prison sentence?

All the more for them to do it cuz it will make them look even more stupid to the Americans!

Jeff Dobbs

Jane:
I see the beer has kicked in H&R. I hope it is a great vacation!


Yes, say what you want about the hit and run clan -- but we strictly observe the noon rule of beer.

So, it's just now kicking in.

But sober, I would have laid it on exponentially thicker. I'm being careful now, and being quick to get in get out get on with my party.

The vacation couldn't be going better. The 5th and 6th cousins showed up today (with sister hit and run and her husband) and all the kids are absolutely rambunctious having a ball.

Terry Gain

Centralcal

Thank you for Dershowitz's excellent summary. It seems to me that the only thing missing from the series of political events in this judicial calamity is the jury's decision.

I say this based on the composition of the jury and the statement of one member of the panel that it was Karl Rove who ought to have been in the dock.

As a lawyer it is my opinion that it will be a sad day for American justice if Libby's appeal isn't granted. Requiring that he serve his sentence while his appeal is pending was itself an outrage.

JM Hanes

lurker:

Apparently Judge Berman was not impressed when the NY Times complained about having to work so hard when the government could just give them whatever they want.

Jeff Dobbs

Clarice (from the last thread):
With that, you are pushing your luck with me, Hit. I may switch affections elsewhere.

I feel horrible for letting this go uncommented upon for this long.

But I unrepentedly admit that I am psychologically unable to even contemplate this scenario, the results of which would devastate me to the bottom of my soul.

Whatever the penance, I stand at the ready.

(well, tomorrow, I will be at the ready, but for now, I am outta here. Make me a command, a list, a litany, and I will do whatever is necessary)

Goodnight, all.

Poppy

Don't doubt Conyers sincerity, many a liberal will look you in the eye and explain that Clinton had INHERENT Presidential powers when he did waranntless searches of peoples homes for National security purposes; BUTT, then Congress wrote a law and Clinton signed it stating that the President needs a warrant, and low and behold, Clinton no longer did warrantless searches.

SEE, A LAW CAN SUPERCEDE THE PRESIDENT CONSTITUTIONAL POWERS, TADA!

Happy 4th everyone! In honor of the Imigration Bill defeat, break out the Dos Equis !!

In honr of the Libby commutation, were serving FREEDOM FRIES!

Other Tom

The Conyers hearings oughta be a laff riot. Can you imagine what the Repubs will be able to dredge up, just to refresh the public recollection about clemencies and pardons of the past? I'll bet Hillary is delighted to learn of all this...

Exactly who will testify to assist the committee in achieving this urgent legislative purpose? "Mr. Rove, did you ever discuss clemency for Mr. Libby with the president?" (I'm dead serious when I say that's probably what Crazy Larry and the zanies at FDL are contemplating.) "Certainly, Mr. Chairman. Let me fill you in on some of the details of our discussions."

Rarely have I welcomed a Fourth with such a sense of glee at the dismay of my adversaries. Oh God, they must be smoldering...

Jeff Dobbs

UPON FURTHER REVIEW (Clairce):
With that, you are pushing your luck with me, Hit. I may switch affections elsewhere.


Losing your affection would be like losing my liver.

Debilitating.

Other Tom

Within minutes I will again subject my liver to yet another grueling ordeal. If it doesn't kill it, it will make it stronger. Happy 4th, all.

clarice

I "may"--that means I'm sort of kind of considering it. I don't think I could actually do that, Hit.

Bill in AZ

Poppy: "Happy 4th everyone! In honor of the Imigration Bill defeat, break out the Dos Equis !!"

No Dos Equis - but I stuffed a slice of lime into a longneck Coors - reckon that'll have to be close enough.

And I'll have another one to toast Conyers - what a silly ass.

Maybeex

Sue, from the last thread:
I get it now. They are going to claim he is lying by telling the same story and do what? Charge him again?

I'm baffled too. I asked at TNH and got no response. I don't understand what would suddenly motivate Libby to either tell a different story or take the 5th, unless there is evidence that his first story is wrong in a way other than the way it has already been declared wrong in court. In which case, he could simply be charged anew on the different obstruction/perjury charges. He hasn't been commuted from serving time ever on every charge, nor would a pardon have had that effect.

I think there was just a fantasy that Libby, after sitting in prison a few days, would suddenly spill the "truth"-- that Cheney and Bush had ordered the destruction of Valerie Plame's--the woman they knew to be an important, IIPA covered, CIA operative.

maryrose

Bill in Az:
Ever try a slice of lime in a Corona beer? A fantastic blend.
OT: Caught the tail end Of Oehlberman's rant and rave on Countdown. That man is totally off the hook and currently deranged!

maryrose

From what I learned today because of Libby's appeal he can plead the 5th and doesn't have to answer any of the congress critters questions. Remember when Denise Rich did that ?

Jane

Rarely have I welcomed a Fourth with such a sense of glee at the dismay of my adversaries. Oh God, they must be smoldering...

I feel the exact same way, and it has been a long long long time in coming. I hope the shift in momentum continues.

Happy Birthday America!

Jane

Libby should refuse to answer any questions for the same reason Monica Goodrich (is that her name? refused to - it's nothing but a plot.

I posted a link to an article at Pajama's media in the other thread, which says Congress has no right to police the executive. He should tell Conyers to get bent.

clarice

I've been feeling so bad about the conviction and sentencing, last night was the first in months that I had a good night's sleep. The agony of my foes is secondary to my joy that :ibby and his famiy can now see some light and hope after this outrageous ordeal.

clarice

IIRC For some time there's been a COngressional rule that if the committee is informed the witness will take the Fifth they are not to call him as a witness simply to get him to confirm that in public.

Sue

Have y'all watched http://nicedeb.wordpress.com/2007/06/28/soldier-does-mean-harry-carey-impression-in-iraq/>this? I got a kick out of it. ::grin::

Sue

Maybee,

I don't understand it either. I mean, I understand the concept of it, but I don't understand what they think they are going to accomplish. Other than another show trial. I guess when that is all you have, you go with it.

Sue

FoxNews.com is reporting the British journalist has been freed.

http://www.foxnews.com/>FoxNews.com

Sue

Hmmm...I'm not sure you want to be released to Hamas, but that is what the story claims.

Rick Ballard

The Congresscritters head home to collect bribe money pretty quick - how should the President respond to this recess opportunity?

Maybe fill those US A slots? Or a couple 4th Circuit seats? Give Bork and Posner a chance to write a few more decisions.

clarice

You are a devil, Rick.

4th Circuit works for me.

maryrose

Jane:
I neglected to tell you how much I enjoy your comments on this blog regarding the Libby kerfuffle. Of course going mano a mano with clarice over H&R is another story.

Pal2Pal (Sara)
"In light of yesterday's announcement by the President that he was commuting the prison sentence for Scooter Libby, it is imperative that Congress look into presidential authority to grant clemency, and how such power may be abused," John Conyers said.

So explain to me what Scooter Libby could possibly contribute to a hearing questioning "presidential authority to grant clemency?"

Aside from maybe shrugging his shoulders and saying, "Would you like to borrow my coat pocket copy of the Constitution."

I mean what do they expect him to say, "yeah you're right, Mr. Prez didn't have that authority, where do I report to jail?"

Rick Ballard

Cool.

FELDMAN FOR THE FOURTH!!!!


and OT for the NINTH? Now that would be fun. Morning session, anyway.

Jane for the FIRST, of course.

Soylent Red

Just checking in...

Terrific news today. I'm looking forward to several weeks of liberal spluttering. And of course when thusly fired up, the moonbats will collectively shriek, thereby contributing to the eventual demise of the Democrat Party. And you gotta love that.

Maybe Mother Sheehan will come out of retirement. That would be too much to ask, I suppose.

Happy Independence Day all. Remember how it all got started here.

maryrose

Remember dems rules to change something they don't like or agree with:
1. go to the liberal courts for relief like the 9thcircuit.
2. change the law
3. start spreading propaganda and lies via the msm-Keith Oehlberman's way.
4. take a poll and lie some more
5. engage in voter fraud on a national basis and then complain when a US Attorney is fired for ignoring the voter fraud in his district.

Pal2Pal (Sara)

Maybe we need a "print and mail" campaign and flood the Congressman's office with Article II, Section 2?

We're at war, folks, we don't have time for this bullsh!t. This is a colossal waste of time and money and it pisses me off.

Other Tom

Maryrose: What was it that you learned today that suggested that Libby can avoid testifying during the pendency of his appeal? I'm particularly interested because I ventured the entirely uninformed view that if I were he I wouldn't utter a word until ordered to do so by an appellate court. If you have learned something that would validate my initial gut reaction, let me know so that I can strut about in an even more insufferable manner now that I at least have some law on my side. (Not that I really need it: I already know how to be a blustering boor in a righteous cause without any support at all.)

Soylent Red

FELDMAN FOR THE FOURTH!!!!

and OT for the NINTH? Now that would be fun. Morning session, anyway.

Jane for the FIRST, of course.

Now you're thinking Rick. Stacking the courts with friendly co-conspirators is an obvious but necessary step toward our early retirement through graft and dirty dealing. ANd as an evil conservative, I'm all about stacking the deck in my favor. Particularly if I can hold someone down or be generally oppressive in the process.

Outstanding. Much better than my usual strategy of "lawyers, guns and money".

clarice

Hi, Soylent.
Sheehan says this forced her out of retirement. So your dream has come true.

Sara, I like your idea. Why not cip and paste it here and we can send it all aroung the blogopshere.

maryrose

OT:
On a talk show it was mentioned that because of the appeals process Libby can't incriminate himself and his chances of an overturn of his conviction by testifying in a congressional hearing.He must take the 5th and that would be a pointless exercise. I agree with sara that all these bogus hearings that don't find anything are a waste of time for thecongress and us. Get busy and start fixing social security and the health care system. And take away the Energy bill from that partisan pro automakers Dingell so we can get some mileage standards in place!

Soylent Red

Sheehan says this forced her out of retirement. So your dream has come true.

There is a God. And He loves me.

WRT Article II...

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.

The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session.

Just in time for Independence Day, all kinds of historical documents and other goodness here

Rick Ballard

"Get busy and start fixing social security and the health care system."

Nooooooo.... Have mercy, Maryrose, these idiots couldn't fix a flat tire.

Pal2Pal (Sara)

I'll work something up. I am indulging today in a bit of celebration including a few glasses of wine, which I haven't done since New Year's 2005. The word "tipsy" comes to mind.

SlimGuy

Saw these from a commentor over at TigerHawk, thought I would pass them on for your reading pleasure.


 


 

Quotation from prominent environmentalists:



"The right to have children should be a marketable commodity, bought and traded by individuals but absolutely limited by the state."



—Kenneth Boulding, originator of the “Spaceship Earth”

concept (as quoted by William Tucker in Progress and Privilege, 1982)





"We have wished, we ecofreaks, for a disaster or for a social change to come and bomb us into Stone Age, where we might live like Indians in our valley, with our localism, our appropriate technology, our gardens, our homemade religion—guilt-free at last!"



—Stewart Brand (writing in the Whole Earth Catalogue).





"Free Enterprise really means rich people get richer. They have the freedom to exploit and psychologically rape their fellow human beings in the process…. Capitalism is destroying the earth."



—Helen Caldicott, Union of Concerned Scientists



"We must make this an insecure and inhospitable place for capitalists and their projects…. We must reclaim the roads and plowed land, halt dam construction, tear down existing dams, free shackled rivers and return to wilderness millions of tens of millions of acres of presently settled land."



—David Foreman, Earth First!





"Everything we have developed over the last 100 years should be destroyed."



—Pentti Linkola





"If you ask me, it’d be a little short of disastrous for us to discover a source of clean, cheap, abundant energy because of what we would do with it. We ought to be looking for energy sources that are adequate for our needs, but that won’t give us the excesses of concentrated energy with which we could do mischief to the earth or to each other."



—Amory Lovins in The Mother Earth–Plowboy Interview, Nov/Dec 1977, p.22





"The only real good technology is no technology at all. Technology is taxation without representation, imposed by our elitist species (man) upon the rest of the natural world."



—John Shuttleworth





"What we’ve got to do in energy conservation is try to ride the global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, to have approached global warming as if it is real means energy conservation, so we will be doing the right thing anyway in terms of economic policy and environmental policy."



—Timothy Wirth, former U.S. Senator (D-Colorado)





"I suspect that eradicating smallpox was wrong. It played an important part in balancing ecosystems."



—John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal





"Human beings, as a species, have no more value than slugs."



—John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal





"The extinction of the human species may not only be inevitable but a good thing....This is not to say that the rise of human civilization is insignificant, but there is no way of showing that it will be much help to the world in the long run."



—Economist editorial





"We advocate biodiversity for biodiversity’s sake. It may take our extinction to set things straight."



—David Foreman, Earth First!





"Phasing out the human race will solve every problem on earth, social and environmental."



—Dave Forman, Founder of Earth First!





"If radical environmentalists were to invent a disease to bring human populations back to sanity, it would probably be something like AIDS."



—Earth First! Newsletter





"Human happiness, and certainly human fecundity, is not as important as a wild and healthy planets…Some of us can only hope for the right virus to come along."



—David Graber, biologist, National Park Service





"The collective needs of non-human species must take precedence over the needs and desires of humans."



—Dr. Reed F. Noss, The Wildlands Project





"If I were reincarnated, I would wish to be returned to Earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels."



—Prince Phillip, World Wildlife Fund





"Cannibalism is a 'radical but realistic solution to the problem of overpopulation'.”



—Lyall Watson, The Financial Times, 15 July 1995



"We, in the green movement, aspire to a cultural model in which killing a forest will be considered more contemptible and more criminal than the sale of 6-year-old children to Asian brothels."



—Carl Amery





"Every time you turn on an electric light, you are making another brainless baby."



—Helen Caldicott, Union of Concerned Scientists





"To feed a starving child is to exacerbate the world population problem."



—Lamont Cole





"If there is going to be electricity, I would like it to be decentralized, small, solar-powered."



—Gar Smith, editor of the Earth Island Institute’s online magazine The Edge





"The only hope for the world is to make sure there is not another United States: We can’t let other countries have the same number of cars, the amount of industrialization, we have in the U.S. We have to stop these Third World countries right where they are. And it is important to the rest of the world to make sure that they don’t suffer economically by virtue of our stopping them."



—Michael Oppenheimer, Environmental Defense Fund





"The continued rapid cooling of the earth since WWII is in accord with the increase in global air pollution associated with industrialization, mechanization, urbanization and exploding population."



—Reid Bryson, “Global Ecology; Readings towards a rational strategy for Man”, (1971)





"The battle to feed humanity is over. In the 1970s, the world will undergo famines. Hundreds of millions of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now. Population control is the only answer."



—Paul Ehrlich, in The Population Bomb (1968)





"I would take even money that England will not exist in the year 2000."



—Paul Ehrlich in (1969)





"In ten years all important animal life in the sea will be extinct. Large areas of coastline will have to be evacuated because of the stench of dead fish."



—Paul Ehrlich, Earth Day (1970)





"Before 1985, mankind will enter a genuine age of scarcity…in which the accessible supplies of many key minerals will be facing depletion."



—Paul Ehrlich in (1976)





"This [cooling] trend will reduce agricultural productivity for the rest of the century."



—Peter Gwynne, Newsweek 1976





"There are ominous signs that the earth’s weather patterns have begun to change dramatically and that these changes may portend a drastic decline in food production—with serious political implications for just about every nation on earth. The drop in food production could begin quite soon… The evidence in support of these predictions has now begun to accumulate so massively that meteorologist are hard-pressed to keep up with it."



—Newsweek, April 28, (1975)





"This cooling has already killed hundreds of thousands of people. If it continues and no strong action is taken, it will cause world famine, world chaos and world war, and this could all come about before the year 2000."



—Lowell Ponte in “The Cooling”, 1976





"If present trends continue, the world will be about four degrees colder for the global mean temperature in 1990, but eleven degrees colder by the year 2000. … This is about twice what it would take to put us in an ice age."



—Kenneth E.F. Watt on air pollution and global cooling, Earth Day (1970)

BarbaraS

Has anyone heard how the Black trial was decided? I am curious if, yet again, Fitzgerald has undercut justice.

clarice

I sent the Article to COnyers with a suggestion that I was just trying to help him seem utterly foolish.

But, I'm not JANE--You know the gal who can even make the President jump thru hoops.

clarice

Mark Steyn has been live blogging it(the Black trial) at Macleans--you can see many similarities to this trial.
At the moment the jury is deciding it though they'd taken a holiday break.

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