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July 16, 2007

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danking70

Of course Dumbledore will return.

At the very least, he'll return as an animated portrait in the headmaster's office of Hogwarts.

tbrosz

Don't assume too quickly that Harry Potter lives. At least in our world. It could be carried off (along with Harry) if done right.

How many people remember that the major characters at the end of the Narnia series are all killed in a random train accident? By that point in the development of the story, it's pretty much beside the point.

clarice

Speaking of books, don't miss Instapundit's discussion of Daniel Brooks new book on the economic woes of rich stupids.One graph :

"After graduating Yale in 2003 with a double major in film studies and gender studies, Tara moved to San Francisco to pursue queer documentary filmmaking. She settled in the Castro district, the historic epicenter of American gay culture, and quickly discovered plenty of enticing projects. "There were lots of opportunities to do film and to help people with their films, but no one had any money to pay me so I did a lot of volunteering and part-time work," she told me in a Castro coffee shop."

http://instapundit.com/archives2/007187.php

maryerose

TM:
I agree with your analysis. I am hopeful Dumbledore returns and that Draco helps Harry in some way and repudiates his father.

TexasToast

I've always thought that the chess game and the following line up of potions between the magical flames in the first book was the original plot line (Ron sacrifices himself to the white queen (Bellatrix) so that Harry can go on and Hermione solves the riddle but only one person (Harry) can go forward and the other must go back). JKR has said that someone received a reprieve (Ron?) and someone else dies (Hagrid or Lupin are my guesses), so perhaps not. Snape parallels Quirrill as Voldemort’s second? It makes sense that Snape is there at the very end.

I don’t think Dumbledore will be back except as a headmaster’s portrait.

My kids grew up with these books. I’m a bit sad to see the end, though the timing is so right for them.

kaz

Not that anyone asked for my predictions, but:

1. Draco's redemption - slam dunk. He already couldn't kill Dumbledore when given the chance. He may end up hurt/killed helping Neville defeat his aunt.

2. Harry lives. Rowling may not need the money, but her publisher will want residual sales in perpetuity. I'm not saying Harry walks out unscathed, I'm not saying he won't depart from wizarding in much the same way Frodo departed from Middle Earth at the end of the LOR trilogy, I'm just saying he'll be alive.

3. Hagrid's toast.

4. Ron and Hermione live to breed the next generation of cash cows.

5. Dead is dead. No return for Dumbledore unless it's an Obie Wan - all in the head - type return.

6. Snape joins Hagrid in the hereafter while helping Harry drop Voldemort in the final battle of good and evil. He may or may not let Harry in on the plan to double-cross Voldy.

7. Harry will be captured and the scar removed during his captivity as Voldemort reclaims the bit of soul stored in it. He may be turned over to Snape for disposal afterwards. [See #6]

8. Regardless of the length of the book, there will be at least three 'WTF?' moments where close readers will ask why certain plot lines are never resolved.

9. All of the sundry Ministry of Magic types will die either leading up to or during the climactic battle.

10. At least 15 new web sites will spring up over the course of the first week to give away all of the plot, complete with dead/living lists. Avoiding exposure to them will be almost as hard as ducking Google ads.

soccer dad

danking70 - Dumbledore already returned as an animated portrait.

BTW, the name Dumbledore means bumblebee. Given that bees die while attacking their enemies we can assume that somehow Dumbledore's death was a blog against Voldemort. JK Rowling does not choose names randomly.

cathyf

kaz, you forgot #11...

11. Except for a rare few, all of the magician community will do their level best to prevent the defeat of Voldemort, for such reasons as Harry might get too uppity if he is allowed to defeat Voldemort, and it's a violation of the Geneva Conventions that the deatheaters don't get habeas corpus rights in US courts, and the young wizards might be busy and thus not instantly available to do what they are told by their elders.

kaz

Cathy:

I was under the impression the story was taking place in England and that the Magna Carta would be the ruling document. Maybe PUK can enlighten us on how it would work. :)

cathyf

Well why would US habeas corpus rights apply any less to English wizards as they do to Saudi unlawful combatants captured in the act of committing war crimes in Afghanistan and transported to Cuba?

PD Shaw

Having just reread the series, I find the number of plot threads to be resolved quite daunting. So I would not be surprised if we learn toward the end of the book that all of the horcruxes have already been found and destroyed.

Tom seems to be under the impression that the last book will be a children's book.

Carol Herman

Okay. You want my guess? Then it's the opposite of Achilles. Where Achilles learned from the Gods that WHEN he entered battle he'd die. But if he kept sitting at the shore, and let the Greeks lose, he's go home and live to a ripe old age. But no one would know his name.

Now. If Hagrid goes, who'd be the keeper of all the strange animals? Why not Harry Potter? Since, if he lives, he needs to "go somewhere." While time passes.

As to what constricts Rowling, I agree. The movie that just opened is the biggest opening this summer. And, it's piling on cash. You wouldn't kill a cash cow, either.

Interesting, everyone thinks Voledmort dies. I don't. Perhaps, he commandeers the unicorn, and goes up in a ball of flames ... but that's the story that belongs to the Gods. Has nothing to do with consumption.

Rowling has an interesting dilemma. It faced Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, too. That's why he killed Sherlock. Heard the hue and cry that went up. (Because you really can't kill a fictional character, ya know?) How so? IT'S FICTION. By definition make-believe. Hello. Death occurs in the real world.

Will Rowling start writing something else? Perhaps, just for fun? The queen, with her crown episode and the photographer Annie Liebovitz, sure does open doors for spoofing. But you have to be able to get it beyond the BBC censors.

George

If you enjoy Harry Potter, you should watch this Wal-Mart Watch parody:
Harry Potter & the Dark Lord Waldemart

I think it's pretty funny. Combined with my dislike for Wal-mart (you may or may not agree), I think it's great.

PeterUK

Harry Potter?

memomachine

Hmmmm.

Frankly I think putting your hopes for Harry's survival on Rowlings greed is a bad idea. Rowlings had made hundreds of millions of dollars and probably doesn't really need more money at this point.

However the Harry Potter series is the equivalent of a life's work. Even if she never writes another sentence, these books will put her into the history books for years to come. And even without that the easy readability of these books and their near universal appeal to younger readers means that there will likely be young readers to come far into the future.

Were I the author the decision whether or not to kill off the main character would depend entirely on the story and would have nothing to do with how much money to be gained.

memomachine

Hmmm.

Rowlings next series?

I'd suggest probably a series of books for the very young on life in a wizarding family based in the same universe with a renown illustrator.

I can't imagine there being all that many world renown illustrators that wouldn't jump at the chance to do illustrated children's books with Rowling.

JJ

LOL PUK.

Yeah, Harry Potter. You've heard of his American cousin, Larry Potter, I know? Drives a pickup truck.

Poppy

I have as much clue about Harry Potter as the Democrats seem to have about a filibuster.

The left wing is rabid for Harry Reid to make the Republicans stand on the Senate floor and have a real filibuster. FDL is rabid on the subject.

I could be wrong, but isn't it the other way around?? Democrats only have 54 votes for the Reid Amendment, so its is actually the Democrats and Reid that are going to have to keep debate going and stage a semi-filibauster of their own amendment.

The Republicans don't have to do anything but show up for the cloture vote. I could understand if the Democrats had over 60 votes and then the Republicans would have to keep debate going by staying on the Senate floor, but in this case, the Republicans have the votes on their side.

What we really have is Reid delaying a Clouture vote on his own Amendment...too funny.

Carol Herman

If Hagrid goes, Hogwarts wouldn't be the same school. To say nothing of how Potter doesn't go back for his final year; after Dumbledore's death.

And, the one escape hatch Rowling has is to somehow change the scar on Potter's head; so that he's not a wizard, anymore. Just an adult. WIth whatever lays ahead, hopefully a better outcome that what his mom and pop got.

Poppy

I'm guessing but I would say:

Hogwarts is flooded due to global warming.

Harry is nearly killed but saved by the National Health Service (Islamic Brigade).

JK Rowling makes an appearance to be lectured on how bad rich people are by John 'The Hair' Edwards.

Snape turns out to be the hero, and he's gay and he's getting married.

Hermione loses her virginity to end the war in Iraq.

Semanticleo

Curious.

This thread (Harry Potter) reads like
a Libby speculation. Which is more real,
a fantasy book on celluloid, or a nest of
scofflaws? Seems both run on a similar
nerve pathway, with relative parity for
some folks.

PeterUK

Semanticleo,
We Earthlings speak a rich and diverse range of languages,it would better if you had some slight grasp of one of them before trying to communicate.What you are putting before us is obvious from Uranus,it simply does not compute.

TexasToast

Tom

Two other points

Rowling has used two plot devices at least twice that I suspect will be repeated 1n the grand finale. First, Voldemort needs something from Harry to achieve his goals (he needed Harry to retrieve the sorcerer's stone from behind the mirror in book 1, he needed Harry's blood to come back to life in book 4 and he needed Harry to retrieve the prophecy from the dept of mysteries in book 5). Second, Voldemort can't directly control Harry to achieve his goals - instead he must act through his minions and he must somehow make Harry give him what he wants through blackmail or some such (Quirill was burned when he attempted to seize the sourcerer's stone in book 1, Tom Riddle couldn't possess Harry as he possessed Ginny in Book 2, Voldemort failed in the wand dual in book 4 (his wand literally gave up the ghosts), Voldemort couldn't tolerate his short possession of Harry in book 5.

I don't know how we will see these two themes in the last book, but I'll bet they are there.

PS .... and, no, I don't expect to see any mention of habeas. It is a lovely entertainment - why can't folks just enjoy it on that level?

tbrosz

Will Rowling write again?

Four words: "Hogwarts: The Next Generation."

tryggth

Heh, I see why EW is so tender.

The two themes, (proxy) "You know, for kids" and the franchise are the intertwined boundaries.

I find the later humorous. After making all that money for them there is still a constraint. Perhaps that sadness will make it into the book. Ha! Its the foundation of something..

Anyway...

* a bit of Ender's Game. Fatigue, leading to a choice which is on analysis ambiguous, but fatigued.

* Snape working out his position within the story of the last book. Not a set historical story, but something he and the readers (to their surprise) have to grapple with themselves (leading to an understanding of the fatigue).

* Satisfaction all the way around. Because you can't screw up a multi-billion dollar industry AND an opportunity to push hope forward given all those resources.

Pop

Its interesting that the Democrats, who tell us they abhore torture, so quickly turn to it when dealing with the enemy.

Notice how they have turned on the Republican Senators, they have physically and mentally abused them, and no one in the press cares to question them.

They have initiated sleep deprivation, something Dick Durbin said was akin to being Nazis.

They had made them listen to rambling nonsensical speeches from the likes of Bob Byrd. Kind of like making them listen tom rap, another tactic previously condemn as too harsh by the Democrats.

They have kept them confined in their offices, kidnapped essentially unable to go home and see their familes. They haven't even been charged with an offense.

So I would guess the folks at FDL that are cheering on such tactics believe that coersive tactics actually do work on the enemy.

I thought that they would prefer to be nice to the Republicans so they could understand why they hate them.

kim

Jonathan Kay, National Post, Tuesday, Today. Whose Mojo's worked this magic? I'll not say his name.
=========================

kim

Uh, it isn't Joe Wilson, powerful sorceror though he be.
===========

steve sturm

At the risk of jinxing myself, I think Harry lives... for the simple reason that Rowland seems to be a nice lady who wouldn't kill him off without absolutely having no other choice.

And there is no need to kill Harry, and thus, I'm guessing she'll wrap things up and answer a fair number of the outstanding issues without killing Harry.

By the way, the same holds for Ron and Hermione. The three of them are loved, really loved, by way too many people and I don't see her making them suffer by making either of them die.

Now there are definitely those who would kill off Harry, and happily so. Some would do it for 'artistic' reasons of some kind, others to push their own dark view of life (life doesn't turn out sweet), still others to 'close' the book and preclude anything like the GWTW sequel.

I just don't see her as one of them.

kim

It's magic. Anything can happen.
===================

centralcal

Over at NRO's The Corner, John Podhoretz is reporting that someone has posted images of the last few pages of the final Potter book on the web. He doesn't provide a link to the spoiler, however.

Anyway, forewarned!

SaveFarris

Harry and Ron are inside a diner eating onion rings. Heromine is outside trying to park the car. Voldemort, who had been sitting at the counter walks into the bathroom. Journey plays on the radio as Heromine opens the door: "Don't Stop ..."

goddessoftheclassroom

If I were Rowling, having achieved such a modern classic, I would tweak the Hero cycle and have good conquer evil without the hero's death. James and Lily have already paid that price. Maybe she'll echo Orpheus and Harry will manage to pull Sirius out of the doorway--remember, he fellt through it before he was actually dead--and Harry still has that mirror Sirius gave him (and I STILL think the Mirror of Erised will come into play!)

Steven Mitchell

Harry marries Ginny, becomes an Auror, and eventually takes the job of Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher at Hogwarts. In doing so, he becomes not only the youngest DATDA teacher, but the first one in ages to serve more than one term. :)

Ron and Hermione survive, and also marry.

Snape dies saving Harry.

Everyone else is far game. The thrust of the story through the first six books is that the trio survives, but others close to Harry are taken out. I wouldn't be surprised if the trio are somewhat shellshocked at the end.

Andrew

Voldemort will survive. Sort of, anyway. Evil never seems to be fully driven from the world (or Pakistan either), so the series won't likely change that regrettable aspect of life.

tryggth

OK, there are some answers now. But you already knew that, right?

maryerose

SaveFerris:
LOL By far the best comment of the day!

goddessoftheclassroom

Would you please consider keeping this thread on top? The rabid Harry fans among your readersip will be truly grateful.

I'm going to church tonight so that I'll feel less guilty missing services on Sunday when I'll be reading...

Jim

I think Hagrid lives. I think that's why Grawp is there--as Hagrid starts to lose his fight with Nagini, Grawp steps in and kills the snake/horcrux, dying in the process.

Tom Maguire

My kids grew up with these books. I’m a bit sad to see the end, though the timing is so right for them.

My two oldest are a soon-to-be college freshman and HS senior, so Harry's last year of school fits their schedule nicely. They, unlike Harry, are obliged to actually attend school.

And The Sorceror's Stone was the first book the sixteen year old read.

End of an era. Troubling. I remember sitting in the theater waiting for the Return of the King (on the first day it came out, natch) and saying I didn't want the movie to start because three hours later it would be over.

Fortunately, the movie ended six times, so it was all good.

Of course, now I have to actually move my eyes and turn the pages.

Tom Maguire

10. At least 15 new web sites will spring up over the course of the first week to give away all of the plot, complete with dead/living lists. Avoiding exposure to them will be almost as hard as ducking Google ads.

If the past four books are a guide, everyone in our household will be finished reading their copy by Sunday afternoon, so no prob. The older ones will be done on Saturday, probably after lunch.

My tired eyes will probably outpace the ten year old, who is an unknown quantity this time out.

Tom Maguire

Harry and Ron are inside a diner eating onion rings. Heromine is outside trying to park the car.

I'm stealing that...

Would you please consider keeping this thread on top? The rabid Harry fans among your readership will be truly grateful.

My original plan was to bounce this to the top maybe Thursday, but with the new spoiler out I think I am ending my HP posting and research - I don't want to stumble across any spoilers and I certainly don't want to find any here.

If anyone can think of a sensible way to slice that I am all ears, but I take for granted that fools like the sclown would post a spoiler here just to be irritating.

sylvia

I am completely Potter-free as I have never read a book nor seen a movie of it, so I feel left out here... I'd read one, but I'd feel somehow like I was cheating on all the books I read as a child/tween.

maryerose

Just saw the movie with my daughter today and it was excellent.
TM:
I agree. I don't want any spoilers and I'll be picking up my book on Saturday. So after about a week we can resume.

JJ

Still stuck on just how Harry is going to defeat V without Dumbledore or some good relief pitching -- especially since he goes lonewolf at the end of the last book. The July 31 trade deadline in baseball is coming up. Maybe he could some similar trading and swap Hagrid.

hit and run

By the way, anyone else folling the adventures of Will Collier over on vodkapundit


He mistakenly got his copy of the last book early -- he put in an order even though he's really not even into the series that much.

So, he listed it on ebay.......

You'll have to click the link and navigate your way for the rest of the story.....

Elva Pugh

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http://www.desertusa.com/ced/index.html >DesertUSA.com: Cedar Breaks National Monument
http://www.rocknet.com/sep96/lennon.html

battery

discommender phellogenic palindromical compassion ethnotechnics nonvocal ploceiform apishness

sophy

Welcome to our game world, my friend asks me to buy some 12sky gold .

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