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July 29, 2007

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kim

The Left is just hopelessly dissonant about terror.
===========================

windansea

one mans dissonance is another mans heresy

Seixon

I think the position that the war was the right thing, though mistakes were made, is probably the most logical. That's pretty much my position on the issue, anyways.

I'm also of the opinion that in a war of such proportions, mistakes will be made. That's just a fact of life. That doesn't excuse mistakes that were made, but serves to point out the absurdness of expecting perfection.

PaulL

I'm tired of "mistakes were made." Mistakes are impossible to avoid in any aspect of life, and especially in a war with millions of variables. So what? Could we come up with anything more obvious or irrelevant?

All one needs to do is ponder any situation in Iraq, consider if it had been handled differently, and imagine possible outcomes.

Would the press have loved it if Rumsfeld had ordered that looters be machine-gunned down, for example? Hmmm, I bet not.

Would the press have embraced Sadaam's men running the country, or would they have questioned why we had a war in the first place if we were going to leave Baathists in power?

Or if Pres. Bush had forced a US-written constitution on them, or a US-chosen government?

Et cetera.

Powell's doctrine of overwhelming force was exposed for the clap-trap that it was, with the incredibly fast invasion and overthrow of Sadaam.

Overwhelming force is not the way to go with an insurgency, however. The press likes to conflate the two issues, to support the "Powell Good, Rumsfeld Bad" position.

PaulL

Oops, strike that "however" in the last paragraph, and make it a "surely even Powell would agree on that."

BarbaraS

I don't believe in polls, especially those put out by the media. They are always skewed to the dems. And, what difference does it make that Bush's numbers are 34% or even 29%? He's not going to run again and he will still be president on January 19, 2009. What difference does it make that the public does not want to continue the Iraq war? Bush will not pull out before he wants to. That is why he was elected. To protect us from the Islamofascists. He would be extremely careless if he hasn't stashed away the funds to continue it, especially remembering what the dems did in Viet Nam.

The dems would love to be able to say that the Iraq war and indeed the GWOT is a Bush disaster and are diligently working toward that goal. I read from a poster a day or so ago that if we want to win a war we need to go in and win it immediately before the left can join the enemy. This has proved to be correct in regard to the Iraq war.

MikeS

The NYT and some other ‘news’ organizations, in the first days of operations in Afghanistan, adopted the “quagmire and failure narrative.” After the fall of Baghdad, this was modified to the “exit strategy and failure narrative.”

The NYT and these ‘news’ organizations promote their narrative aggressively. They do this not only by cherry picking, or ignoring, or spinning news stories, but sometimes by printing lies and doctored photographs.

The news about polls reflecting support for the Iraq War is really that support hasn’t changed much in the last 2 years or so. March 2005

The problem with that fact is that it debunks another of the NYT narratives, that the Iraq War is becoming progressively more unpopular.

Cecil Turner

I'm tired of "mistakes were made." Mistakes are impossible to avoid in any aspect of life, and especially in a war with millions of variables. So what? Could we come up with anything more obvious or irrelevant?

No kidding. And the common charges are mostly unprovable or nonsensical. For example, we couldn't have put in "several hundred thousand troops" if we'd had to, nor is there any proof it'd have helped, nor could we have kept the army together (nor use them with any confidence if we had).

Moreover, there is a raft of absolute silliness on anything having to do with the Administration and war . . . witness the latest on the Tillman case:

The doctors — whose names were blacked out — said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.
Bad news for the docs . . . spend a couple days at the range and you'll find that spacing is a better indicator of marksman skill than the distance from which rounds are fired. There's also a big deal made from a Chaplain who supposedly contradicts the nearest eyewitness, but a subsequent interview suggests the Chaplain's report was just incomplete (and slightly off). From all this, the many veterans at DKos have deduced he was murdered for spouting Chomsky. Brilliant.

The fact that our national media gives this sort of thing air time is a perfect illustration of their complete cluelessness on martial matters . . . and their desire to use it for political mileage. There are a few who appear to be enemy-sympathizer propagandists, but mostly they're just willfully stupid on the subject. And any responsible viewing of their product requires that be kept firmly in mind.

maryerose

Our plain Dealer newspaper had a prominent article debunking the chaplain.

Patrick Tyson

The invasion itself was an honest mistake. The aftermath, given that and the results of elections in the United States in November of 2004 and November of 2006, shouldn't be seen as all that surprising. I wrote a long time ago that the cost to the United States in blood, treasure and good will will have been worth it if a couple of years after the United States substancially withdraws its troops (which will happen before the end of this decade,) Iraq is governed more like Japan than like Cuba. That remains my opinion.

Sara

Iraq Soccer Team defeats Saudi Arabia 1-0 to win the 2007 AFC Asian Cup Finals. Big celebrations. This is major. Sports will do more for national unity than all the politicians or soldiers could ever hope to do.

Neo

There is no mystery here as to why this poll came out the way it did, especially if you link in Hillary.

If you ever have been in one of these polls, you know that it seems like they go on forever. I have personally hung up half way through more than one of these polls, so who is likely to hang in there when other might just drop out ? The answer revolves around those other "Hillary" questions .. it is Hillary supporters. Seeing as Hillary has never repudiated her Iraq War vote, most Hillary supporters would like to believe that she and the invasion were the right thing to do.

Ralph L

Why did it take a hundred questions to get to Iraq? Silly poll.

MikeS

Silly poll.

And they ask the wrong questions. They should ask,

Do you believe that immediate withdrawal from Iraq will help or harm the country?

Do you think it will help or harm al-Qaeda?

hit and run

MikeS:
They should ask,

Do you believe that immediate withdrawal from Iraq will help or harm the country?

From Rasmussen:

If the U.S. withdraws from Iraq, will the U.S. be safer than it is today, less safe or about as safe as today?

Safer than Today
17%

Less Safe than Today
38%

About as Safe as Today
38%

And this is in that link as well:

The survey also found that 39% say the terrorist will be stronger than they are today if U.S. troops withdraw from Iraq. Forty-one percent (41%) say the terrorists will remain as strong as they are today while just 12% believe the terrorists will be in a weaker position.

Fifty percent (50%) of Americans believe that withdrawing the troops will leave the Iraqi people less safe than they are today. Only 10% believe the Iraqi people will be safer while 33% believe little will change for the Iraqi’s.

TerryeL

I think that people are beginning to spend more time thinking about what might actually happen if we just leave Iraq.

eric

Now that most people see that anything written or expressed by the Jayson Blair Times is automatically suspect, it renders unnecessary the need to even treat it as serious news.

Democrats win polls, and then are shocked that republicans win presidential elections.

I found your blog while browsing Patrick Ruffini's political site. I am also on there.

I am contacting political bloggers since I am one as well. My blog is www.blacktygrrrr.wordpress.com

If you like the columns, let me know if you are up to a link exchange, since I get some pretty decent traffic. Cross promotion is a win win for common sense political bloggers.

Also, I am competing at the bloggers choice awards, in the political category.

http://www.bloggerschoiceawards.com/blogs/show/21020
Please vote for me IF AND ONLY IF you feel my blog is of a high quality.

eric

Joe Citizen

I find this post to be rather incoherent.

The basic message is that the NYT buries unfavorable polls.

But of course, they not only did not bury it, they reported it - repolled the question because it seemed to be possibly a fluke, then wrote a story about how they did all that, concluding that the change is real.

And the conclusion is that they "bury" these results? You wouldnt have the material for this post if it wasnt for the fact that they did NOT bury it, they even explained the whole process.

What be you smokin' man?

MikeS

The basic message is that the NYT buries unfavorable polls.

I think you're mistaken. The basic message is that the NYT has taken a position and is advocating for that position rather than reporting the facts.

kim

Noel Sheppard on Newsbusters has an interesting article about a Chris Matthews show with a bunch of liberals regretting what might happen with a precipitous withdrawal from Iraq. There were unexpected sentiments. I can't help but wonder if the utter cynicism of the New York Times editorial several weeks ago about the aftermath might not have pricked a few consciences.

h/t Kim Priestap
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windansea

A War We Might Just Win

Here is the most important thing Americans need to understand: We are finally getting somewhere in Iraq, at least in military terms. As two analysts who have harshly criticized the Bush administration’s miserable handling of Iraq, we were surprised by the gains we saw and the potential to produce not necessarily “victory” but a sustainable stability that both we and the Iraqis could live with.

the last place you'd look


windansea

ahhh I understand now, just in case we win the left will reduce victory to "sustainable stability"

sylvia

That was a good article on the progress on Iraq. At the minimum, we have surely learned many lessons this time on how to deal with an insurgency and how to try to rebuild a country that we can use for next time, if we are forced to.

I agree that I think the upsurge in opinion is coming as the election debates are continuing and people are starting to really examine this situation again and, contrary to what the Dems think will happen, the people are listening to the debates and are confronted about the few good alternatives there are, other than moving forward.

Bill in AZ

Polls only serve to tell the leftist media where to put emphasis, how good they are doing with their propaganda, and where they are screwing up and losing credibility (heh heh - remember global warming?)

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