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August 03, 2007

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hit and run

Dadgummit. I am slooooow. I just posted this on the other thread, after reading the link provided by Sara:

----------------

From the NYT article:

Mr. Rothberg [spokesman for Simon & Schuster, publisher of Val's epic work] said that aspect of Judge Jones’s ruling was particularly frustrating.

“Trying to argue a case in which the government was able to submit a supersecret affidavit which we were not able to review was like playing an opponent who has 53 cards in his deck,” he said.

Notwithstanding more relevant topics regarding the case, he ain't talking about poker. Or blackjack. Or gin rummy. Or go fish.

Is he talking about nertz? Or spit? Is it advantageous to have an extra card in a game where you're trying to get rid of all your cards?

Or is there another game where two opponents are playing from their own deck of cards that I am not remembering or of which I am unaware?

I'm vexed.

clarice

Old Maid, maybe?

Sara

I'll say what I said at the end of the last thread - it is bizarre.

Patrick R. Sullivan

I wonder how Kappes would explain the CIA allowing Lindsay Moran to publish Blowing My Cover a mere two years after she left the field:

Ms. Moran's vignettes about training are well-written and paint a detailed picture of paramilitary and operational courses. It may well serve our many enemies to read this book. ("Hey, Osama, check out this cool evasion tactic!") I was shocked by the level of detail allowed by the CIA publications review board....

Ms. Moran goes on to divulge more operational tricks of the trade, and each time she did so I winced. In the Directorate of Operations culture of my day (the 1980s and 1990s), it was unconscionable to go into such depth about the business of agent recruitment and surveillance detection.

Sara

And bizarre, CIA and Plame in the same sentence makes me super suspicious about supersecret reasons. Kappes seems like one of the good guys. Negotiated the Libyan nuke deal, served in Moscow and Pakistan. Clandestine service, with the agency since 1981. I'd feel better about him if that Pakistan service weren't there. Too many players in the Plame/Wilson affair are tied to Pakistan thru State and CIA. And the only thing that seems important enough to keep "supersecret" at the risk of appearing foolish to the public would be some ongoing op that has to do with nukes and nuclear material. Which brings us back to AQ Khan and Iran/Iraq/N.Korea/Pakistan/Libya. What was our gal Val up to?

Sara

Ct. of Appeals rules in Wm. Jefferson's favor and orders Justice to return confidential documents removed from his office. Rules the search unconstitutional.

clarice

Kappes was fired by Goss and returned when Goss was dumped. He was fired for refusing to fire a leaker IIRC.

The agency may have been able to argue that something about her service may reveal the identities of those working with us or ongoing ops, but cynical me believes those records show she was not w/in the limits of the IIPA and the referral to DoJ was in error.

clarice

Sara , Have you a link on the Jefferson story. I can't find it anywhere.

Sara

Clarice you may be right, but why at this late date would they care and why would Hayden go along with letting the referral stand if it is in error? That would be really really cold seeing as a man was sentenced to jail, lost his livelihood and his reputation and a whole lot of money. Doesn't it seem like it has to be more if it is a national security issue? I am only guessing, of course, but it seem like it has to be an on-going op that Plame had something to do with before she retired. I just don't see how refusing to confirm her employment dates protects national security when they are already public. We are obviously missing something important, but what?

Sara

Clarice, I just heard it as breaking news on Fox. Check www.foxnews.com, it might be on there.

Sara

Via Fox News:

WASHINGTON — The FBI violated the Constitution when agents raided U.S. Rep. William Jefferson's office last year and viewed legislative documents, a federal appeals court ruled Friday.

The court ordered the Justice Department to return any privileged documents it seized from the Louisiana Democrat's office on Capitol Hill. The court did not order the return of all the documents seized in the raid.

Sara

I guess it wasn't really the search that was unconstitutional, just the taking of some of the documents that were confidential.

Rick Ballard

Since it's speculation day I'd toss in an attempt by Mrs. Munchausen to conflate "serve" with "visit" by mentioning her trips abroad in her fabulous account.

There is also an element of Kappes frantically trying to coverup the fact that the CIA was more than dabbling in domestic politics by allowing Scheur et al to go public. Toss in MOM's efforts and the CIA takes on the appearance of a Dem oppo research consultant.

Which is the main reason (IMO) that they are no longer primus intra pares in the intelligence establishment - and a damn good thing too.

I give Kappes no pats - way, way too little and way, way too late. The CIA has State disease and could use 20 years of budget cuts.

clarice

Can't tell from that tidbit.

clarice

I agree, Rick. My lasat comment was to Sara.

clarice

Sara:"but why at this late date would they care and why would Hayden go along with letting the referral stand if it is in error? That would be really really cold seeing as a man was sentenced to jail, lost his livelihood and his reputation and a whole lot of money"

Just speculating, but (a) Kappes is back because he was protecting the CIA bums in the first place and can find an institutional reason and personal one for playing along;and (b) he can justify this to himself by saying the referral was made in good faith and even if it was wrong it wouldn't do a thing to help Libby now.

If he revealed info proving the referral was a ruse, everyone under him would do what they did to Goss--make his job impossible.

Cecil Turner

Why doesn't she just break her book up in serial form, and have her hubby publish in the NY Times? Worked for 'em last time . . .

Sara

You live in the DC area Clarice, does it ever cross your mind that when you get on the Beltway, you might be driving next to one of these twisted individuals who infects the CIA? When I worked in newspaper advertising, it used to bother me that when I got on the freeway to drive home at night, some of the same dumb people I had to talk to all day were on the road with me in the evening.

I can easily buy that Kappes is connected to the "cabal," but Hayden? The straight arrow military General?

clarice

Good point, Cecil--
Sara, I don't mean to imply everyone who works(ed) there is the same. I know at least two who weren't though they've recently left.
This city is full of some very nice people, some very deluded people, and a significant number of very bad people.

Sara

I don't know. I'm punchy right now. I have been awake all night long with a sick six year old and an even sicker six year old's Mother. Some kind of yucky intestinal thing. I'm too old for this kind of duty. Sigh.

clarice

Hayden? Excuse me--he let his gc work with Waxman to delude almost everyone re Plame's status and never really corrected that, didn't he?

His gc has still failed to clarify her status months after Hoekstra's inquiry.

I think he's a dreadful substitute for Goss if your aim is to straighten out this cesspool.

Sara

Clarice, I agree. I didn't mean to malign them all. I think there is a very small group who for some unknown reason wields an awful lot of power at Langley to the detriment of this country. I don't even think it is really about politics. Some day someone will decide to "follow the money," so to speak. This whole group seems intertwined with intelligence and business, both as part of their job and, my speculation, off the books and into their own pockets. Grossman, Wilson, and various and sundry State and CIA long term employees.

Sue

Clarice,

The argument Kappes made persuaded the judge. I would think it would take more than protecting CIA bums for a judge to rule in the CIA's favor.

When you think about it this ruling is really in Valerie's favor, since it makes her seem even more "secret". So secret in fact they have to pretend no one knows she worked there.

Sara

I think he's a dreadful substitute for Goss if your aim is to straighten out this cesspool.

I hear you. It is just hard to think he could either have so little integrity or on the other hand be so manipulated. He is no novice to the intelligence world, he is a general used to being in charge. I am disappointed in him. I guess I expected him to be more of a "by the book" kind of guy, not just another weakling.

Gabriel Sutherland

How does one retire to New Mexico to live a peaceful life AND try and publish a memoir at the same time?

There is no such thing as the million dollar forward from a publisher without a 1 year book tour, media circus commitment.

bio mom

So, Since the "separation of powers" has been upheld in the Jefferson case, will Congress now knock it off trying to get the legislative branch to usurp the powers of the executive branch>

Sara

I'm reposting the Joyner piece I posted at the end of the last thread just to have it in the right one and to get his quote over here.

________________________

This Plame thing with the dates seems bizarre to me and James Joyner says it "appears awfully silly," yet the judge says she is satisfied with Kappes reasons and that it is a national security issue.

Joyner:

The judge’s ruling is almost certainly legally correct, although the result seems bizarre. Obviously, Kappes hasn’t shared his reasoning with me. I can’t fathom, however, what it might have been.

Book Blog had this coverage back in January:

The [CIA’s Publications Review Board] refused Plame permission to even mention that she worked for the CIA because she served as a “nonofficial cover” officer (or NOC) posing as a private businesswoman, according to an adviser to Plame, who asked not to be identified discussing a sensitive issue. “She believes this will effectively gut the book,” said the adviser. Larry Johnson, a former colleague, said the agency’s action seems punitive, given that other ex-CIA undercover officers have published books. But even Plame’s friends acknowledge that few NOCs have done so. CIA spokesman Mark Mansfield said the panel was still having “ongoing” talks with Plame to resolve the dispute. “The sole yardstick,” he said, is that books “contain no classified information.”

That she worked as a NOC is public information, solely because the CIA chose to make it so. Therefore, keeping it classified appears awfully silly.

Were Plame/Wilson seeking to publish juicy details of classified ops, reveal trade secrets, or the like, they should obviously be allowed to stop her. But the dates of her employment? Even aside from the Congressional Record, her retirement announcement received worldwide attention.

cathyf

I'm just flummoxed. I keep coming back to the fact that the Executive Order is very explicit about what is not classified:

Sec. 1.7. Classification Prohibitions and Limitations. (a) In no case shall information be classified in order to:
  1. conceal violations of law, inefficiency, or administrative error;
  2. prevent embarrassment to a person, organization, or agency;
  3. restrain competition; or
  4. prevent or delay the release of information that does not require protection in the interest of the national security.
(That's from Executive Order 13292. In EO 12958 the language of that section is identical, it's just section 1.8 instead of 1.7.)

"In no case" means that information is not classified if it fits into any of those categories. These executive orders are the only manner of creating classification on information, and they are the expression of executive authority, which is the only authority for creating classified information.

If the information is NOT classified, then how can the CIA get a judge to go along with claiming that it is?

The only thing that I can think of is that the agreement that Plame signed is more restrictive than an agreement to refrain from disclosing classified information. If, in fact, the agreement is that she cannot disclose any information which the CIA doesn't want her to disclose, classified or otherwise, then, well, she signed the contract, she should be forced to uphold it. And I might actually agree with the CIA that there is a legitimate national security interest in forcing ex-CIA agents to honor their contracts.

Sara

OT - Via Sanchez at FOB Falcon:

After a thorough investigation that lasted nearly a week the 4th Infantry Brigade Combat Team, 1st Infantry Division has concluded that the allegation made by Private Thomas Scott Beauchamp, the "Baghdad Diarist", have been

"refuted by members of his platoon and proven to be false"

Topsecretk9

Recall that the CIA spokesperson initially said there were problems with the book in the form of "fiction" - she was free to print if she labeled it fiction - that tells me that the CIA was not going along- at all - with her "version" of things.

So a guess might she was configuring her dates of service abroad to fit in the IIPA?

Also, I thought Scary larry print Kappes affidavit?

hit and run

the allegation made by Private Thomas Scott Beauchamp, the "Baghdad Diarist", have been


The singular "allegation" caught my eye, as there were many allegations in Beauchamp's writing. But as a commenter over on Matt's blog noted, there is subject-verb conflict because he uses the word "have".

Most likely missing an "s" on what was intended to be allegations....

Sara

H&R, check Confederate Yankee too. He wrote to the base in Kuwait and got an email back, but they are also investigating and calling Beauchamp's claims and Urban Myth.

Sara

Whoa! The Prez just laid it on the line for Congress -- stay in session 'til you give the DNI the tools he needs to protect America.

hit and run

Fun with Geraghty:

Fun With Low Approval Ratings

President Bush's Approval Rating on the Iraq war, according to Zogby (yes, I admit, I take his numbers with a grain of salt): 24 percent.

Congress' Approval Rating on the Iraq war, according to Zogby: 3 percent. (No, that's not a typo.)

Michael Vick's Approval Rating, according to the Wall Street Journal/NBC: 5 percent.

Congress' handling of Iraq: Forty percent less popular than Michael Vick!

verner

Hi All!

Don't know how many of you have had a chance to read Rowan Scarborough's book yet, but he makes it pretty clear that Hayden is a Judas who kissed up to Waxman over Plame just to make points with the Dems. He wants to keep his job in case we have a president Hillary.

Also Clarice, great stuff from RS about our old friend Fulton Armstrong--the CIA's resident Castro lover, who, as Mr. Foley told us in the Bolton hearings, was also involved with Niger....hmmm, interesting. But of course, Armstrong is currently serving "overseas" and was unavailable for an interview.

As for Val, funny isn't it, that they will admit that she was employed AFTER 2002. And when did the Novak column appear? So what does that mean, that she wasn't super secret after 2002?

Carol Herman

The CIA does not come out of this smelling like a rose;

And, George Tenet DID publish! However, in his book where he thinks he's at the "center of the storm," he never mentions Plame. Not once.

The CIA just plays a game: THERE. NOT THERE.

Only your psychiatrist "knows."

PeterUK

CIA = Clintons In Absence?

clarice

Verner, Hi! What's RS and where can I find that piece.pls?

clarice

Oh--nevermind--Scarborough--Sorry, I'm a bit slow today.

verner

Hey Clarice.

Rowan Scarborough, and his new book Sabotage.

I ordered mine a week ago from Amazon.com. Worth the read, just for the episode about Hoekstra and Toening confronting Hayden after the Waxman hearings. Lots of good stuff.

Topsecretk9

Now Larry is saying

--Valerie was undercover from the day we entered on duty in September of 1985. --

I thought it was November?

Jane

I read it too Verner, fabulous.

So this Judge was a Clinton Judge right? Is she trying to protect the CIA from being caught with their pants down on Plame? So far nothing else makes sense. (And I'm not even sure that does.)

boris

Perhaps it's more along the lines of "CIA had to cover for your fubar clusterfrak so now it's your turn to just shut up and fade away"

MikeS

Now Larry is saying--
Valerie was undercover from the day we entered on duty in September of 1985. --

Who cleared Larry to release that info?
Our secret agents, don't seem to be proficient at the 'secret' part.

clarice

Could be a typo--for she was under the covers from the day we entered on duty...

PeterUK

"Now Larry is saying

--Valerie was undercover from the day we entered on duty in September of 1985. --"

But how would Larry know,they gave Plame the gun and Larry the ballpoint pen.

davod

The problem I have with Scarborough is that he divulges what he implies is a classified program and states that he is the first to do so.

The program in question would certainly still be usefull and I think its disclosure would have a negative effect on the fight against the ratbags.

lurker

I have a question...

You know that movie that Hollywood was going to make about the Wilsons?

Well, does Hollywood or the Wilsons have to seek permission from CIA? Based on this judge's ruling, how can Hollywood buy those rights?

willem

Better yet, how can Plame-Wilson sell them?

lurker

Good point. So the movie cannot be made at all?

Hugh Hewitt interviewed that Chemirinsky about the Plame lawsuit. They just filed an appeal with D.C. Circuit. This Chemerinsky guy actually believe in the Wilsons.

Topsecretk9

To the best of my knowledge she already sold them. Do they get a refund?'

They'll HAVE to go with Plame's Fiction - see above - and lable it fiction.

I have a hunch where this train is heading - when you see all the Larry's and Marcowski's (sp?) squeal -- Bush will have to be the hero and "unclassify Plame's FILE" so she can have her book and movie---they've been betting/hoping the CIA would go along (after Shuerer etc, it was a safe bet) and that Bush won't/couldn't - but with Libby commutation and all, it only seems fair, right?

Plame NO LONGER Martyr?

Love it - train stopped.

Bill in AZ

Soros has warehouses full of anti-Bush books. Glad I don't know Soros at Christmas time.

davod

The ratbags at CIA will wait until closer to the 2008 election before allowing publication.

Poppy

Its a real funny thing to look at FDL posts on Jose Padilla as opposed to their posts on Scooter Libby.

Padilla was an innocent waif until the mean old American government and the jack booted justice department decided they wanted to F-ck with him.

As opposed to the wonderful, sweet, law and order justice department that went after the devil himself in Scooter Libby.

The only evidence against Padilla is his signed Al Queda application (which the hint may have been forced/forged during a torture session; whereas the evidence against Libby was the air tight he said/he said with Russeert who admitted he had forgotten phone calls in the past, etc.

It is a pretty amazing split personality.

Jane

Its a real funny thing to look at FDL posts on Jose Padilla as opposed to their posts on Scooter Libby.

That's sort of symbollic of the whole crowd. Sad really.

lurker

Thanks, TS!

Some people seem to think that once Bush leaves the office, we would see an influx of new books claiming the corruption inside the WH, including the VP....that all the truths will come out...

Just like Times did this week with Gonzo...as Gonzo standing as the last man between Bush and the Senate Democrats...

narciso

Having just seen the Bourne Ultimatum; on sees what a serious CIA conspiracy looks like.Gilroy, the screenwriter, seems to have gotten his impressions from FDL/Kos
DU and Sullivan & Djederian's more paranoid musing. It works like an updating of Three
Days of the Condor on speed. A Guardian reporter, gets a tip about Black Briar; the umbrella program that includes Bourne's Treadstone assassin program, in addition to rendition, special interrogations, et al. He gets a bullet; in London's Waterloo station (Dana, James, look out) his source; a CIA NOC operating out of a Madrid brokerage house; gets a car bomb.from an asset, who may or may not be moonlighting from his day job with Al Queda in Tangiers. The authorization for Black Briar, comes
from a Deputy Director; possibly # 3.(Dusty Foggo on steroids)operating from a NY Office building; as well as the Training facility from where Jason Bourne arose.(Shades of Ward Churchill's "Little Eichmann's and conversely AQ rationale for
attacking outposts and symbols of American
power.with 'hands off authority' from a
DCI with 'skin in the game. All these death's from London to Tangiers; and not a few NYPD officers are to prevent Bourne from
discovering his roots. Of course, it's all
in vain; As the MKUltra type chief who uses
waterboarding to create his assassins and the afore mentioned bureaucrats get there comeuppance (There's even a role for a Mary McCarthy type; the one's who provided the EU the info of the secret prisons)

RichatUF

Sara-

Too many players in the Plame/Wilson affair are tied to Pakistan thru State and CIA. And the only thing that seems important enough to keep "supersecret" at the risk of appearing foolish to the public would be some ongoing op that has to do with nukes and nuclear material. Which brings us back to AQ Khan and Iran/Iraq/N.Korea/Pakistan/Libya. What was our gal Val up to?

[VIMH: This is a less sober moment, don't look stupid]

We can get Rocco on the case and get a decoder ring for narciso's posts. My take, she and her cohorts were laundering gem profits through Africa with the ultimate goal of arming the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia with nuclear weapons.

AQ Khan could deliever the bomb...the technology, the technicians, engineers, and scientists, etc.

His payment would be gem stones which he would launder through gem dealers in Dubai, HK, Belgium, London, NY, etc

The proceeds would be routed through African banks [with off books accounts denominated in euros, pounds, or dollars] to pay expenses

His customers [NK, Iran, et al] would need to find gemstones (lots to be found in Africa and Afghanistan [dated, 1986]). The country would provide weapons and training to whatever band happened to control a lucrative find [a quick walk back memory lane, in the mid-to-late 1990's North Korea was very active in Sudan] and as payment the country would demand a share of the gems.

The Oil-for-Food program could have been used to move equipment and supplies through Dubai using Cotechna, which had a relationship with Pakistan previously. It could have also provided another money laundering operation. It was always curious to me the number of deals KSA individuals and entities were involved in via-OFF.

The reason I think KSA was actually on the receiving end was they have the money, their regime isn't as strong as they think, and it wouldn't surprise me if KSA could convience a group of CIA and Foreign Service officers that the best interest of the US would be for KSA to have a nuclear capability. It also comes down to the law: KSA has signed the NPT and as such, if the US (or the UN) discovered nuclear weapons capability KSA would get sanctioned by the US in addition to any international sanctinons levied [as what happened to India and Pakistan, those sanctions are stupid anyway and encourage dishonesty].

clarice

nteresting theory, Richard. It wouldn't be hard to persuade them--they all go on the Saudi payroll when they leave, don't they?

I was trying to research when Prince Bandar took it on the arches and returned hom but cannot easily find it.

clarice

On June 26, 2005, Prince Bandar reportedly submitted his resignation as ambassador to the United States for "personal reasons".(Wikipedia) The Fitzathon was well underway at the time.

If your theory is correct, Bandar would certainly have been involved.
"As Ambassador, Prince Bandar worked with CIA Director Bill Casey to fund covert CIA operations with Saudi petrodollars."
http://www.amazon.com/Prince-Secret-Worlds-Intriguing-Bandar/dp/0060899867

narciso

Hey, Rich, it's not that difficult to follow; I gave a precis review and I
suggested where they got their ideas.
The uproar over the TSP's tandem phone
intercepts and data mining only make sense
in a situation, like that illustrated by Guardian reporter Ross; the portrayal of
Bourne seems to be be based more on fmr.
MI-5 agent David Shayler (now a 9/11 conspiracists) and his former MI-6 colleague
Tomlinson (who provided the rationale for the Diana assasination delusion)rather than most American intelligence contexts. The
'spying on Americans' meme, finds fruit in the tracking and and ultimate termination of dissenting agents like Noah Daniels; the Madrid NOC mentioned above; who is part of the 'architecture of evil' behindTreadstone/
Black Briar. If you stretched the analogy you could place Julia Stiles's (who wrote for the Weekly edition of the Guardian, back in 2004)character, the secondary target, as a Valerie Plame manque. In Hollywood, it seems inconceivable that a North African bombmaker and assassin would
not work for the CIA (AQ is just an after thought)Pamela Landy's actions, seem to prefigure Mary McCarthy, and her associates;
in giving details of rendition/detention protocols & facilities to Dana Priest, James Rosen, Stephen Grey, and of course Sy Hersh. The film even subtly suggests by putting the operational headquarters for
Treadstone/Black Briar in DownTown New York pre 9/11; that 9/11 was a pretext, for what happens later. The whole uproar over the attorney firings; particularly the Yang matter vis a vis ED Foggo; really relates
to a chance to unmask the CIA's operations;
the corruption allegations are just filler.
For these purpose, the Fitzgerald inquiry into Libby, serves the same function. The
fact there are actual Saudi bankers like
bin Mahfouz, Alamoudi ( Mssr. Wilson's new employer & Kean's old business partner thru Amerada Hess) who fund jihadi propaganda
facilities, here, the UK, Pakistan, Iraq,
et al and thru the British courts can
silence all dissenters is a reality they refuse to consider. Call it "An Inconve-nient Truth" hey where have I heard that before. The BU is fiction; but it rings very close to the reality of Kos, FDL,
Waas, etc; with the assistance of the British boycott on all Israeli products,
institutions etc. (Come to think of it
the assassin could pass for Israeli; possibly Sephardi)

RichatUF

clarice-

If your theory is correct, Bandar would certainly have been involved.
"As Ambassador, Prince Bandar worked with CIA Director Bill Casey to fund covert CIA operations with Saudi petrodollars."

Mitrokhin No. 40 talks about Saudi funding of the Afghan Mujahaddin and I think there is some in Ghost Wars-it surprised me (sort of) that KSA provided more money (and personnel est. of 15,000) by far than anyone else. Its an interesting story of the Cold War and hope to look into further (something along the lines of "The Oil War of the Cold War: KSA, The Soviet Union, and the War over Afghanistan's Soul"). The title is much too long, but I'm pretty sure I've got a good idea in there somewhere.

I wouldn't doubt that Bandar would have his hands dirty somewhere and that there might be a power struggle going on in KSA [which would explain the SFO (GB) investigation that got scotched recently involving Bandar and Riggs Bank].

narciso

That really isn't surprising considering Abdullah Azzam's and Mohammed Qutb's (Syed's
brother) along with a future aide to Turki who ran a madrassa; thier version of a Saudi
public school. Ray Close, the previous American station chief in Riyadh; who retired to head National Chemical company; nad was soon spotted in Afghanistan. Another
Mujahadeen hardliner in the American convened but Gen Intellig/ISI pipeline was
Abdul Raisul Sayyaf; a Saudi trained Afghan figure. It is well known that BCCI; a front for Saudi Gen. Intell, men, Adham, Turki,
Khalil. Riggs might have been the
counterpart bank for handling the American
Yamamah account arising from the last great arms contratempt; the AWACs sale of 1981; at which time Bandar was promoted from
military attache to Ambassador.

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