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October 22, 2007

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PeterUK

Looks like TM got a remaindered copy early.

Matthew Crandall

Hmm, somehow I think "OJ: How I woulda done it" is a more truthful book than anything written by the wonder twins of duplicity, Valerie and Joe.

Sue
I very much want to see how she explains her leave of absence in June 2004

Something to do with the VF shoot?

Sue

It still bugs me when Joe and Val ignore Armitage. There is a reason they do that, but other than keeping the story on Cheney/Rove/Libby, I can't figure it out. Was he the man they sent to start it all?

BarbaraS

The problem with lying is people forget not only what lies they told but also what lies their allies told that they are supposed to support. This sounds like the case. She doesn't sound too terribly smart. The question is was she a bimbo because she was CIA or was she CIA because she was a bimbo?

Topsecretk9

NYT's Blog not all that impressed.

this is pretty funny:

“Leaks are always bad news,” Ms. Wilson said.

In her brand new blog on Huffington Post, Ms. Wilson seemed more taken aback by the sudden celebrity:

Watching myself on 60 Minutes was surreal — who can ever get used to seeing themselves on TV? I guess the book tour has really started and it will be a crazy week ahead.

She also told “60 Minutes” that she regretted posing for pictures for a “Vanity Fair” spread. However, in the book, she admitted enjoying the image the photos encouraged — that she was a beautiful blonde. “I suppose that was better than an ‘ugly blonde’ — I do have an ego,” she said.

She’ll be updating the blog all week, she said before bidding readers good night: “I have an early wakeup call tomorrow to do the Today Show.” And there she was this morning in her first live interview. (”60 Minutes” is taped).

Well DUH!

Sue

Isn't there some kind of copyright infringement with the title of her book?

http://www.amazon.com/Fair-Game-William-Baldwin/dp/6305308861>Fair Game The movie.

MaidMarion

Here's a question Couric missed:

"Was your counter-proliferation unit involved with the coordination of the 2002 Iraq NIE and if so, did you, as chief of your unit, note any of your concerns about its analytical assessments prior to its final publication?"

Topsecretk9

1. Was Valerie at the fateful breakfast in May 2003 when Joe discussed his classified trip with Nick Kristof? Don't ask, and she won't tell.

This is a good point because I believe at the Congressional hearing earlier this year she did admit she was present and didn't see anything wrong with it. One would think she'd take the opportunity in her book to explain why dining with journos while husband discusses classified was accepted CIA protocol.(tongue in check)

Sue

How dirty did the tricks get? Ms. Wilson describes being denied protection by the C.I.A., fearing for her children’s safety, finding out that her tax returns were being audited and having been lucky enough to discover that some bolts holding the Wilsons’ outdoor deck, high above the ground, had disappeared.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/22/arts/22masl.html>Sheesh

Sue
How dirty did the tricks get? Ms. Wilson describes being denied protection by the C.I.A., fearing for her children’s safety, finding out that her tax returns were being audited and having been lucky enough to discover that some bolts holding the Wilsons’ outdoor deck, high above the ground, had disappeared.

I seriously give up. My post at 3:28 is a quote from the NYT's review of her book.

Sue

Why would the CIA deny her protection if she was unfairly "outed"?

kim

Speaking of bolts, I thought they were bolting to East Africa not long before they decamped to New Mexico. Now it comes out that it was New Zealand they were looking at. Well, there is a poorly protected border for him, still.
=================================

Topsecretk9

1. Was Valerie at the fateful breakfast in May 2003 when Joe discussed his classified trip with Nick Kristof? Don't ask, and she won't tell.

Hearing Transcript - YARGB

REP. DAVIS: Let me just ask, try to put some -- some of the press speculation to rest and give you an opportunity to answer. In January 2004, Vanity Fair published an article -- not always known for great accuracy -- touching on your role in the Niger uranium affair. It said -- this was what they said -- "In early May, Wilson and Plame attended a conference sponsored by the Senate Democratic Policy Committee at which Wilson spoke about Iraq . One of the other panelists was New York Times journalist Nicholas Kristof. Over breakfast the next morning with Kristof and his wife, Wilson told about his trip to Niger and said Kristof could write about it but not name him." Is that account accurate?

MS. PLAME WILSON: I think it is. I had nothing -- I was not speaking to Mr. Kristof. And I think my husband did say that he had undertaken this trip, but not to be named as a source.

REP. DAVIS: Okay.

Just to be clear, when your -- the article says that -- says your husband "met for breakfast with Kristof and his wife." Just to be clear, were you at the breakfast?

MS. PLAME WILSON: Briefly, yes, Congressman.

REP. DAVIS: Okay.

On June 13th, Kristof wrote a column about the Niger uranium matter. He wrote that he was piecing the story toge the r from two people directly involved and three others who were briefed on it. Do you know if you were one of those people he was referring to?

MS. PLAME WILSON: I can't imagine that I would be. I did not speak to him about it.

REP. DAVIS: Okay.

What about your husband? Would he have been one of the sources, probably?

MS. PLAME WILSON: I think he was speaking to Mr. Kristof at that point.

REP. DAVIS: Okay.

Was any of that information classified, to your knowledge?

MS. PLAME WILSON: Not that I'm aware of.

REP. DAVIS: I yield back at this point.

Plames book may make me think I am reading Pravda!

4. Trouble In Paradise - apparently, Valerie forgot to mention to Old Joe that she had written a memo promoting him for the trip; when the Senate Intel report panned Wilson in July 2004 he was furious and felt (somewhat understandably) that the memo undercut his claim that his wife had no involvement in his Niger trip.

and from the TM wayback machine on Plames hearing

And certainly, Plame then knew that her husband's "behesting" tale was a fable.

Absolutely true, even with the tale Jeff wove.

Posted by: MayBee | March 17, 2007 at 01:19 AM

And certainly, Plame then knew that her husband's "behesting" tale was a fable.

She went home and told him about the phone call that upset her assistant and the 'crazy report'. Joe, being important and all, put 2 and 2 together and the rest, as they say, is history.

Posted by: Sue | March 17, 2007 at 01:20 AM

She knew the Kristof article was false. She knew the Pincus article was false. She knew that Wilson's op-ed was false. She knew Wilson was calling all over Washington complaining about being, boo-hoo, low level....Posted by: Sue

She is a strange bird.

Rick Ballard

"Why would the CIA deny her protection if she was unfairly "outed"?"

Alien abduction was the only identifiable threat involved, according to the CIA risk analysis. They sent her a case of Reynolds Wrap, what more does she want?

Topsecretk9

Sue -- the tax business? Sounds like Plame was a subject of a counter-intelligence investigation if you ask me, and the whole episode - outing ect. etc. - was to create a big giant cloud to get out that.

Sue

Rick,

::grin:: I was thinking if they didn't provide her protection they weren't too concerned with the outing, which is how they treated it until Tenet got involved. Payback by Tenet against Cheney? That is my guess.

Top,

I can't imagine what those 2 were up to. With their connections to Scary and others of his ilk, anything is possible.

Rick Ballard

Tops,

$100 says no "audit" was involved. The IRS is getting better and better at sending NHI dunning letters claiming taxes due for simple errors. If you want to avoid them - do your taxes in crayon. At least an actual human being will read them.

Sue

Maybe the IRS wanted to see if Mr. Wilson claimed those expenses to Niger that the CIA supposedly reimbursed him for.

glasater

"She is a strange bird"

....and a liar--but that doesn't seem to mean anything any longer.

kim

I believe Joe tried to cozy up to Richardson, but ended up signing up with Hillary. Surely there must be someone from the Kerry campaign around, to remember the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. That was one honorable thing Kerry did; of course I believe he was so prescient because he'd been at the early May Senate Democratic Policy Committee meeting of much interest and secrecy.

If the 'Bush Lied, People Died' meme weren't both so necessary and so powerful, the Joe and Val Show would have gone poof years ago. But the meme is false, the Iraqi War was just and is now nearly won. Surely these two will get their comeuppance.
============================

kim

We use the term 'strange' because despite all we know, and the perspicacity of the viewers, we still don't know much about what she or he did, and what motivated them.

I'm still expecting her to leave him and run off with Larry.
=======================

Sue
I'm still expecting her to leave him and run off with Larry.

A genuine laugh out loud! However, I have expected Joe to leave her and run off with Larry.

PeterUK

"My husband has good relations with the PM [prime minister] and the former Minister of Mines (not to mention lots of French contacts), both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity."

Why wasn't "Counterproliferation Woman" able to do this? After all she had that huge network of agents at her beck and call.

Perhaps the book should stare,"Are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin.Once upon a time there was a beautiful young blonde princess who was the last bastion of Western civilisation..."

MayBee

So she is going with version 2.0 of walking by guy? The upset colleague in the office after the mysterious person from the VP office called brings the attention of walking by guy?
Or did she go with version 1.0, where only walking by guy exists?

MayBee

ps. At Firedoglake, it was Sidney Blumenthal that introduced the Wilsons to the book salon today.
Mrs. Wilson also mentions that they hosted Marcy, Jane, et al at their house for dinner during the trial.
I wish Jerry was here, so we could talk about independence of bloggers again.

Sligobob

Tom, Tom, Tom:

Enough with Plame!

I want to know what you think of this "Albus is gay" business.

PMII

So, what's the best color crayon to use when doing your return?

Appalled Moderate

Anyone:

A matter of curiosity. Are there any interesting nuggets in the Plame book at all? Everything I see suggests a production remarkably free of content, except the book continues the unfortunate tren of the hearings of making the woman sound like an utter dim bulb.

MayBee

AM-
I haven't read the book and I certainly won't pay for it. I know the WaPo said it was obviously not ghost written, and suffered from that.

Tom Maguire-
Jeff was gamely asking Valerie questions like this at FDL:

Just to be precise, Fitzgerald determined you were a “covert agent” according to the IIPA, meaning you had done covert work overseas in the five years prior to having your cover blown by the Bush administration. So that is not in doubt. What I am curious about is whether the CIA, for their pension calculations or whatever, properly counted your work overseas in that period as part of “overseas service” according to their definition.

But she didn't answer that or any of his (somewhat challenging) questions.

RichatUF

And speaking of Plame, it seems my rather pathatic attempt at live blogging the 60 Minutes piece wasn't necessary. CBS has a transcript up

PeterUK

"Just to be precise, Fitzgerald determined you were a “covert agent” according to the IIPA, meaning you had done covert work overseas in the five years prior to having your cover blown by the Bush administration."

It is my understanding that Mr Fitzgerald did no such thing,nor did he charge anyone with a violation of the IIPA.

RichatUF

...At Firedoglake, it was Sidney Blumenthal that introduced the Wilsons to the book salon today...

I suppose that is what one gets when you drag a hundred dollar bill around Chinatown.

Why am I not surprised that Sid Vicious is stalking the edges of this...

Topsecretk9

She said this at FDL -

"And I did sit in one meeting - timeframe unclear to me - with Mr. Libby. I was just a “backbencher” though, with no speaking role. How ironic, huh?"

---

Time frame unlcear?

Come ON! Miss brilliant can't pinpoint a meeting?

But Scooter Libby is supposed to remember every second of every waking day years ago?

This get even more stupid by the minute.

clarice

Sid was circling Isikoff and Hamsher at the trial.

hit and run

Apologies for cross-posting -- but I am putting the below in this thread for futre reference... and because it fits here any way.

I have no idea of the editorial selection process, but if approved, the below should show up in UrbanDictionary.com (just submitted today):

---------------

covertiness

1. the state in which a person claims to be covered by the Intelligence Identities Protection Act as a covert agent while behaving in a manner so as to remove that status or to expose it as false. Such behavior may manifest itself in acts such as: 1) telling a boyfriend on your third or fourth date that you are a CIA agent during a heavy make out session; 2) driving to CIA headquarters without fear of exposure; 3) recommending your spouse for a CIA trip 4) attending inter-agency meetings communicating your relationship with the CIA to persons without a need to know; 5) allowing your spouse to write an Op-ed in the New York Times about that CIA trip; 6) after finding out that a journalist has discovered your identity, calling your boss just to let him know as if it's a minor inconvenience; 7) posing for pictures in a magazine without regard for the safety of colleagues who may be compromised by your exposure.

2. the possession of a relationship to an intelligence agency that is not general knowledge, but is easily ascertainable with minimum research.

Her covertiness was quickly exposed by behaviors that no actual covert person would possibly contemplate.



Would love to stay and chat, but must hit and run, if you will...

Jane and Elliott, thanks for the debate liveblogging in the other thread...you are my hero and my heroin.

Wait, is there supposed to be an 'e' on that last word?

Nah...

Patrick R. Sullivan

Katie showed a little of the trademark spunk at times:

"Did you ever talk to him, weigh the pros and cons of going public with this?" Couric asks.

"No, he had thought long and hard about doing this before writing this piece, this op-ed piece," Plame Wilson says. "It had nothing whatsoever to do with me."

"You never for a moment thought this could potentially jeopardize my career?" Couric asks.

"It's called living your cover. This had nothing to do with what I was doing," Plame Wilson says.

"But admit it. It comes awfully close to what you were doing, even covertly. I mean, you were trying to ascertain if Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. He's writing an article saying it's really not valid, this one assertion. I mean, can't you see how those two things might collide in a very dangerous way?" Couric asks.

"Listen, he had information that was firsthand information that was in stark contrast to the lie, the 16 words that appeared in the president's State of the Union address. He wasn't supposed to say anything?" Plame Wilson replies.

Not if he possessed classified info, he wasn't.

PeterUK

"It's called living your cover. This had nothing to do with what I was doing," Plame Wilson says"

"Living Your Cover", the Hit Song from the New Musical "OUT!!"

This is going to leave,"Paint Your Wagon and "Climb Every Mountain" in the shade.
There is a come back for Britney in this.

MayBee

How is "living your cover" an answer to whether Joe Wilson outing himself as a CIA-affiliated person working in nuclear weapons and married to Valerie Plame Wilson seemed potentiallly career-threatening.

It seems to me "living your cover" would be Bob Novak calling and asking if Val worked for the CIA, and Joe saying "NO".

These two....

PUK- I believe Jeff was referring to information Fitzgerald filed in the sentencing phase, in which he mentions Plame being covered by the IIPA.

Patrick R. Sullivan

Maybe Katie should have Chris Matthews job, she's more of a man than he, here:

"You know, you're a covert CIA agent for X number of years and suddenly, you know, you're in this Greta Garbo pose in your husband's Jaguar," Couric remarks, referring to a photo that ran with the Vanity Fair article.

"It was more trouble than it was worth. And it was, I was not interviewed for the article. I was not identifiable. The damage had already been done," Plame Wilson says.

Asked if she regrets the photo, Plame Wilson says, "You have my answer."

Her boss, Plame Wilson says, reacted "poorly" to the photo. "As he had every right to do so. He was caught unawares. And he gave me a really good chewing out. As I deserved to be."

"Can you understand how people just were turned off by that whole thing? They felt, 'Gee maybe she's enjoying her celebrity a little too much,'" Couric remarks.

"Uh-huh," Plame Wilson admits. "Well, again, you have to ask 'Who are these people and what is their agenda?' 'Why are they asking that?'"

"What about those who think you and Joe have become too partisan?" Couric asks.

"Again, that's how it's how the 'right' has chosen to frame us," Plame Wilson says.

"You have become very partisan though. Would you agree with that?" Couric asks.

"After what we've been through and how I've seen this administration react, not
just on this issue, but on others, yes," Plame Wilson says.

And with this too:

Joe Wilson says that's no excuse.

"It was a mafia-like tactic. And the idea of going after your family, even in Washington, was an outrage. Nobody went after Karl Rove's family. Nobody went after Scooter Libby's family. They went after my family," Wilson says.

"But in all fairness, Karl Rove's wife doesn't work for the CIA," Couric remarks.

"How do you know?" Wilson says.

"Scooter Libby's wife doesn't work for the CIA," Couric says.

"How do you know? How do you know?" Wilson asks.

"I don't know for sure. But I think it's a safe assumption," Couric replies.

PeterUK

Featuring the Smash Hit Love Song.

"Once I Was a Covert Spy"

"Once I was a covert spy
Who lived her cover totally
All too soon my secret self
Became impatient to be free.

So I told a diplomat
The way that schemers often do
Just how wonderful I am
And why I am so in love with me.

Now I shout it from the highest hills
Because even we have got to pay the bills

At last my heart's an open door
And my covertness's no secret anymore.

Topsecretk9

"Listen, he had information that was firsthand information that was in stark contrast to the lie, the 16 words that appeared in the president's State of the Union address. He wasn't supposed to say anything?" Plame Wilson replies.

un-beliable.

PeterUK

"PUK- I believe Jeff was referring to information Fitzgerald filed in the sentencing phase, in which he mentions Plame being covered by the IIPA."

Fitzgerald was often very lax with terminological inexactitudes.

MayBee

At Firedoglake, Valerie also did not answer Jeff's questions about the timing of the call from the OVP to the distraught underling.

You know, I really would love to see Jeff get a chance to interview the Wilsons. He would do a decent job of it.

RichatUF

clarice-

Sid was circling Isikoff and Hamsher at the trial...

I re-remember it like it was yesterday. Sid does have vulture like tendencies

MayBee

I remember that too, clarice.

Apparently, all that hanging around Hamsher hasn't helped Blumenthal get the facts straight. Here's what he posted at FDL:

One abiding mystery unaddressed in Plame’s book remains the role of former Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage, who corroborated Novak’s story (Rove being his main source) and leaking Plame’s name to Washington Post reporter Bob Woodward for potential use in a book to be published later (not for a current newspaper article). .. Nor do we know the full contents of his grand jury testimony, though it may be unlikely that his exact motives were subject to interrogation by the special prosecutor. Sources in the intelligence community tell me that Armitage wished to be appointed CIA director in Bush’s second term. Armitage also had a long relationship with Rove. Moreover, Armitage had never before deigned to speak with or even return a phone call from Novak. Yet he called Novak himself to confirm Plame’s identity. It seems inconceivable that Armitage did this completely at his own initiative. Pointing to Armitage as a leaker settles nothing. Libby, Rove and Fleischer, meanwhile, were all leaking furiously. And Armitage has yet to explain.

what a clown

RichatUF

Patrick R. Sullivan-

from the 60 Minutes Transcript...

"It was more trouble than it was worth. And it was, I was not interviewed for the article. I was not identifiable. The damage had already been done," Plame Wilson says.

I link you decide.

Ridiculous. I'm still stunned by this story.

Topsecretk9

Maybee

anyone who needs a "What a clown Blumathal is" refresher course, look here:

Page 303: A senior White House official told Smith that Bill had been "seriously considering leveling with the American people" right after the Lewinsky scandal broke. So, what happened? Sidney Blumenthal, convinced of the president's innocence, advised him to hang tough.

The only thing I DON'T beleive about this passage is Blumenthal really was unaware Bill was a known horn dog as Bill was WANTING to "level" - but leave it to Blumenthal- Lewinsky slimer extroidinaire - to urge Bill to lie

http://www.slate.com/id/2176094/

PeterUK

"Sid was circling Isikoff and Hamsher at the trial...

I re-remember it like it was yesterday. Sid does have vulture like tendencies"

More like a blow fly.

Other Tom

If it's true, as some say, that Larry is a repressed homosexual, then I doubt she'll be running off with him.

Other Tom

Major off-topic here, but with the fires swirling around I gotta seek some guidance concerning the Malibu fire: Is it morally OK to pray that the fire spares the entire Malibu Colony except for one house, Barbra Streisand's, and that that one house be turned into a smoking, putrid charnel-house? Please lemme know your thoughts before the prayer sessions begin.

clarice

"what a clown" is right..and his son at Media Matters is a chip off the paranoid propagandist's old block.

OT, My pocket prayer book says,"If you do that, she'll do what she did when she couldn't unload her old Malibu estate--donate it to charity at an inflated valuation."

PeterUK

Other Tom,
How dare you say Larry is repressed!

RichatUF

OtherTom-

Is it morally OK to pray that the fire spares the entire Malibu Colony except for one house, Barbra Streisand's, and that that one house be turned into a smoking, putrid charnel-house? Please lemme know your thoughts before the prayer sessions begin

Tempting but no. Seeing your house burn down is about one of the most heartbreaking things one can go through. Pray for all of Malibu-even Ms. Streisand.

RichatUF

I peeked over at FDL and skimmed the write up and ran across this gem...

After her outing, Plame enters a bewildering world. The spymaster becomes the prey. Her government degrades the valued agent. The lies come so fast they are impossible to rebut. Detailed explanations exploding the falsehoods are ignored by a complicit press.

Didn't plow into the comments yet. Maybe I'll just breakdown and get the book tomorrow-why should Tom have all the fun?

Ralph L

We don't want her precious Stickley furniture to burn up.

Jane

Yeah, it's okay OT.

MayBee

About the Vanity Fair shoot: Does Valerie mean her boss reacted poorly? She must mean her boss reacted properly, and her actions were poorly received.
Tops, she is fooling herself if she thinks she is unrecognizable in that picture.

MayBee

OT-
It is ok to wish for that, but not pray for it.

DubiousD

@RichatUF:

Thanx for the Nicole Kidman photo links.

Oh... wait...

RichatUF

Here is a nugget from the fdl comment thread by VPW:

I have no more information on the original source of the forged documents than what Knut Royce wrote about in his thorough book, The Italian Papers (at least I think that’s the title). No one has been able to get to the bottom of the mystery. Lots of good possibilities: Mossad, former CIA operatives, but no one really knows for sure.
Elliott

Nothing new on Hannity and Colmes. Just a replay of Hannity's piece and an interview with Robert Novak.

narciso

Of course, Larry King is swallowing the Plame line hook line and sinker; buying
the denial that she had nothing to do with
sending her husband to Niger. Colmes is of
course buying the 'media spin' on the HLF
verdict. This of a contrast with the Libby
case; where despite the fact that the jury
sympathized with Libby; they had to find find him guilty of something. Then again;
Libby can't hunt you down and kill your family like Hamas, ICASP and the HLF. On a more serious note. Rowling seems be taking on the coloration of Rita Skeeter the tabloid reporter (played by EmmaThompson in the films)who savages Dumbledore's reputation in the last book.

Topsecretk9

Colmes is of
course buying the 'media spin' on the HLF
verdict.

Which is odd, because it's -a walk on water Fitzgerald- loss.

The Italian Papers (at least I think that’s the title)

The "I'm Partially stupid" bit is nauseating." I wholeheartedly enodrse the "thorough" book, but I just don't know what it's titled!" Uh huh.

"The Italian Letter: How the Bush Administration Used a Fake Letter to Build the Case for War in Iraq"

MayBee

The "I'm Partially stupid" bit is nauseating.

Agreed. It was interesting the way she slipped the Mossad in there as a possible source, but golly she just doesn't know anything. Joe is one that has said this war is for the Lukid party (the WaPo chat).

Sue

I wonder if Val and Joe sit around and laugh at the people who are posting at the swamp? The fawning over them and their lies is nauseating.

Terry Gain

Valerie Plame is a poster girl for all that's wrong with the CIA - too many liberals who put the interests of their party above the interests of their country.

Ranger

On a positive note... It looks like Gen. Hayden is moving to shut down the leak machine in the http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06E3DF143FF931A25753C1A9619C8B63&n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/People/M/Mazzetti,%20MarkCIA> office (former work place of she of the initials MOM).

Sue

I see Jeff is still pounding his points that were never clear to him. Like why Armitage was never charged. Uh, possibly because she wasn't covert!

Other Tom

OK. Re Streisand, I'm wishing but not praying.

So we go up to the Brigantine, across the street from the Hotel del Coronado, for a couple of rammers and a salad, and the place is jammed with evacuees. I don't know if the hotel has space for them, and if not we're wondering where they'll sleep--and of course they're wondering if they'll have houses to go back to.

I'm informed that in L.A. the Four Seasons and the Beverly Wilshire are overloaded with them. Weird variant on the Grapes of Wrath.

Best I can tell from our vantage point is that the next 24 hours are going to be very ugly.

And I've decided that the best defense re Val and Joe is to let them fade into oblivion. There's nothing for them to kick anymore, and both are radioactive for jobs in Hillary's admin. Comical footnotes to history.

Rick Ballard

Mr. Libby should give the 'thinly veiled fiction' genre a spin. I would suggest Fairly Gamey, A Covert DNC Operative's Undercovers Life in the CIA, as a working (and perhaps actual) title.

Ranger,

Thanks for the link - at a certain point it' cheaper to burn down the house to get rid of the termites. The CIA reached that point some time ago.

clarice

Yes.OT. It sounds horrid on the coast and I think in time Val and Joe will get what they deserve. In the meantime a decent man's life has been ruined, and the credibility of the most honest President we've had in decades and belief in this govt were seriously undermined by these clowns and their media echoes.

Neo

Unfortunely, I was hoping UBL would make an appearance with that ghastly beard just in time for Holoween, but instead we get an audio tape with some washed up guy mumbling about his disunited group on hard times. His (and the Wilson's) "fifteen minutes" are about up.

Sue

She answered no serious questions. No one acknowledged Jeff's smackdown of Blumenthall's 'facts'. She goes out of her way to distance herself from Rozen, why, she hasn't "had time yet to look at it too closely." But gosh darn it, she is "pleased with her work, however." She sounded like a beauty contestant. "How exciting it would be to see the Los Alamos scientists be put to work on developing clean, alternative fuel technologies, for example." If she is an example of our human intelligence, we are in deep shit people!

Sue

My absolute favorite though...

I have noooo idea who Seymour Hersh’s sources were for the stovepiping article he did. Clearly, he gets good ones. As for the source of the Niger forgeries, yes, I suppose it could have been former CIA operatives, but who knows? They were apparently poorly done, and I’m sure whoever did them had no idea the trouble they would ultimately cause.

But, we are told...

After years in the field, Plame is assigned to a new group called the Counterproliferation Division within the Department of Operations, dubbed as the “island of misfit toys” within the agency. The search for WMDs becomes a concentrated goal. In the run up to the war in Iraq, Plame is one of the key officers tasked to locate them. One of the most knowledgeable operatives, she continues to believe that it is highly likely that Saddam indeed has WMDs and is hiding them.

But she never saw the forgeries. Otherwise, she would not have used the word "apparently". And we are to believe this?
And whoever did the forgeries just did them for a lark? Never considered the "trouble they would ultimately cause"?

As I said, I hope the Wilsons enjoyed the slobber fest they got at the swamp. Only those who have less intelligence than a peanut would buy their sack of shit.

Sue

As I think about it, the best thing that could happen to get the truth out is for Val to start talking. It wasn't until after Joe started talking that we actually learned the truth about his lies. She isn't smart enough to pull it off. Just as she screwed up in the hearings, she'll screw up again. The only way their story still works is for people like Blumenthall to lie about the facts of the leak.

Jodi

Has anyone else besides me really got tried of this Dog and Pony show where Joe is the Dog, and Valerie the Pony.

I think that after they (mainly Joe, with Valerie "standing by her man") screwed everything up, in that Op-Ed piece, they just tried to salvage their careers and future monies by appeasing the Democrats and Progressive Bloggers at every step. The rest is as they say history, or as the bard would say "A Tempest in a Teapot."

RichatUF

Sue-

She answered no serious questions.

I noticed that too. Really wasn't expecting much, but the fawning was something of a surprise, coming as it was from the "progressive community". We have come a long way from the good old days of the Cold War where the CIA was the root of all evil.

From your clip above, "she continues to believe that it is highly likely that Saddam indeed has WMDs and is hiding them", remember when she was "looking" she believed the WMD was hidden. Given the sanctions, embargo, bombings, failed coup plots, and inspections all during the 1990's-and they didn't, within VPW's thinking, dissuade Hussein from giving up his WMD, what did VPW think the next step was going to be?

I'm curious of their Iran angle as well. I mean, VPW was forced to retire [and though she still has allies in the place] I don't see what sort of leverage she would have in whether the US goes ahead and bombs Iran. What are they going to say-Iran isn't tied to terrorism and they aren't developing nuclear weapons? Oops-that is exacty the "reality based position" the noble opposition has rehabilitated 1990's Iraq into.

Topsecretk9

--Posted by: Sue | October 23, 2007 at 12:03 AM--

Before i read on, but you go html queen!

Sue

The progressives also forgot they don't like prosecutors in order to crown Fitzgerald. They (progressives) could care less about the Wilsons. They don't care about outing operatives, as the case with the 3 operatives who were flying airplanes for the rendition program will attest. Nary a word about them from any progressive. Good leaks. Bad leaks. A good leak is anything that harms national security. A bad leak is anything that might tarnish Bush/Cheney.

Sue

I'm tired. I think I said that wrong. It doesn't make sense to me. A good leak to a progressive is anything that harms national security. A bad leak is anything they can spin to make it a leak of national security, i.e, Plame.

Or something like that.

Night y'all.

RichatUF

Sue-

I suppose this story [the Plame's] is about mined out-haven't seen Rocco in a while-but, it just really is a head scratcher. For all the ink that has been spent on it, all the details that have been mined on the net, we still really don't know anything more. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!!!

I'm be curious if Plame illuminates Joe's other trip to Niger [1999?]?

Elliott

I'm be curious if Plame illuminates Joe's other trip to Niger [1999?]?

I doubt it. Plame did, however, imply that her husband's 1999 and 2002 trips were not the only ones. From the "60 Minutes" transcript:

"He had, in fact, gone to Niger for the CIA before," Couric remarks.

"Yes. He had done some missions. Yes," Plame Wilson says.

Topsecretk9

Sue --

I liked your HTML - it was a depart and it was fun...unless it was your Sue stalker?

Topsecretk9

Agreed. It was interesting the way she slipped the Mossad in there as a possible source, but golly she just doesn't know anything.

Golly is a damn sure embarrassing note for the CIA's prime time talent...she sounds like lower level then Joe in the pretend department - stand in for Grover on Sesame Street? Something like

"Golly, I can't remember the classified (or the names of books I read, or the date of important meetings") but there is no way Scooter could forget!"

She's got an ego -- is her ego at the center of all this, Scoter didn't love the blonde in the back of the room like all they other guys?

clarice

I wonder how the Clintonistas can wrap their heads around that Sandy Berger who stole and destroyed highly classified documents critical to the work of the 9/11 Commission is to be regarded so highly as to be a trusted advisor while at the same time lauding Wilson-Plame as victims of a horrid plot to disclose national secrets for partisan purposes.

Topsecretk9

The mission Valerie Plame thinks she's immune to

Mission
The Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) is an independent US Government agency responsible for providing national security intelligence to senior US policymakers.

Is Congress her boss? Is the Agency an independent brach?

When your boss comes sniffing around and asks you to tell him what you are doing, do you tell him he's a bully and he has NO right to know more than you and no right to ask you to justify your work and do better? No right too question your incompetence, your lackluster productivity, your proclivity to help out your spouse on the company's dime?

Ahem...Plame is too dim to realize that bright lights in America realize WE - the taxpayers - were paying her way, and BABY you wouldn't get to one if your weren't government employed.

I told my "old" boss he was a bone head on a daily basis, because he is when it comes to like putting air in a tire or accidentally hitting mute on his computer speakers and thinking they were defective speakers --(I love him to pieces and work with him on a weekly basis now) -- but he is brilliant at art and art direction and if I told him he was a bully and he was forcing me to design something I knew was wrong?

SO WHAT, DO IT! DO WHAT I SAY! I PAY YOU! was essentially the directive

Sometimes I was right and we lost clients, many time he was right and that is why HE got the clients

Happens everyday lady Plame...you narcissistic idiot.

kim

It would be interesting to be in Jeff's head right now. He knows his questions haven't been addressed.
======================================

PeterUK

What needs to be addressed is the central contradiction in the Plame fairy tale.If Plame was the highly important covert agent with vast networks of agents who were all compromised by the "outing" of Counterproliferation Woman,why had it been necessary to send Joe Wilson,a rank amateur,to obtain information that Plame's department should have had as a matter of course?
The more inflated Valerie Plame's importance becomes,the more illogical and irrational becomes Wilson's role in this affair

kim

I nominate Jeff to write the definitive account. Imagine his passion when he figures it out.
=============================

Sue

From what I read at the swamp yesterday, Val is claiming they were threatened by AQ. Why would AQ threaten them? According to Val, there was no connection between Iraq and AQ. Why would they (AQ) care about them?

Sue
Sue --

I liked your HTML - it was a depart and it was fun...unless it was your Sue stalker?

Posted by: Topsecretk9 | October 23, 2007 at 01:17 AM

Thanks, Top. It was me, not my stalker.

Gmax

OT

Need a big push today, so thanks for a click through for Jess. The Illinois candidate went up like 8% yesterday, so we really need some vote strength today.

http://soccer.seniorclassaward.com/public/women/vote.aspx>Time to Vote!

PMII

Clinton legacy is that you can lie about anything & everything. You just have to keep it up & get mad at anyone you confronts you. The rest of the Dims have learned this well..............

Jane

GMax,

She's on top at the moment.

Can someone do me a favor? I'm arguing with someone who says Val was covert because the head of the CIA said so.

I vaguely remember this whole brouhaha. What's the rest of the story?

kim

Covert by casual, nay jargon, use within the CIA, not covert by any legally prosecutable definition. Outed by husband and self, of course.

But, we still don't know her true role.
===========================

boris

the head of the CIA said so

IIRC his actual words were spun as meaning that but he specifically disavowed that interpretation.

clarice

To my knowledge the CIA GC still hasn't responded to Hoekstra's question as to whther she was withinthe definition of the IIPA."Covert" by archaic in house def only.

Sue

Jane,

The letter that Hayden sent to Waxman during the hearing where Plame appeared is where they are getting he said that.

Jane

Thanks guys. I knew it would be on the top of your heads.

The comments to this entry are closed.

Wilson/Plame