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October 22, 2007

Comments

kim

See Gore on 'housebreaking a cobra', his analogy to expecting a good long term relationship with Saddam.
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kim

It seems the irony and absurdity of kidnapping in order to bring to justice is bookended by simple assassination, whether by geological pick or smart bomb. How quaint rendition must seem.
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capitano

Hillary:

Richard Clarke? Who in their right mind would believe him?

Al

"Grab his ass."

Obviously Gore didn't mean kidnap the guy in violation of international law. Gore meant make a sexual adavnce through a touching of the buttocks.

What a sloppy post by TM.

And, BTW, what, no Plame post by TM yet??? Even though the WaPo review of Plame's book states that Wilson "told eager CIA debriefers (while Valerie Wilson was ordering takeout Chinese food for them) that there was no evidence that Iraq had tried to buy yellowcake uranium from the African nation"? Normally TM would be ridiculing that error posthaste. TM's slow today...

Peter K. Boucher

Sorry for going off topic, but did you see Meredith Viera's puff piece interview of Valerie Plame?

It was hoorifying! WaPo is Bush's Pravda, only in Alice and Wonderland could analysts say that Joe Wilson's report actually strengthened the case that Iraq had sought Uranium in Niger, and not one single hard question for Valerie.

Blech.

anduril

Geez, I'm amazed at how incisive Gore showed himself to be! If he'd said stuff like that publicly he might be president today.

But, like Al, I actually came here looking for a Plame post.

Other Tom

If you took a public opinion poll today, what percent of the populace would you expect to say that renditions had occurred prior to George W. Bush?

The sad part is that you could take the same poll a year from now and get the same result.

Patrick R. Sullivan

In Seattle another gullible reporter falls for the blonde.

"We experienced an unprecedented number of visits by Vice President Cheney and senior staff," Plame added, speaking of months leading up to the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

"Just having the body of the vice president there is highly unusual, politicizing and damaging to the national security," she argued. "They didn't go to the operations people, who understand that meddling with politics and politicians is a bad thing."

Why did the Bush brass get so personal with Wilson and Plame after the former ambassador wrote a piece in The New York Times about his Niger trip and lack of evidence that Saddam was acquiring nuclear materials?

"I think the character assassination campaign was so intense -- and effective -- because its goal was to confuse a simple case," said Plame. "The administration lied. They were successful in changing the subject to Wilson and his wife."

Plame elaborates in "Fair Game." She claims attacks on her family were a "dress rehearsal" for 2004 Swift Boat Veterans for Truth smears directed at Democratic nominee John Kerry.

"It was classic Karl Rove: go after your enemy's strong point," she writes. "In Joe's case, it was that he told the truth. In Kerry's case, it was his exemplary military service."

Rick Ballard

"The sad part is that you could take the same poll a year from now and get the same result."

Bug or feature? 46-50% of the greatly muddled say they will never vote for Clinton. 89% express no confidence in a Democrat controlled Congress. It won't be a particularly bad thing if those views hold up for 13 months.

glasater

Speaking of the Cintons--here come a piece from of all places The Nation regarding campaign fund raising.

clarice

It IS infuriating to see the MSM recycle proven lies about the Plame matter, Rush's phony soldiers and the response to S-CHIP ad Frosts, isn't it?
Some days when I'm skimming I just want to scream.

Gmax

OT

Me again. Just follow the link and punch the JMAX button. You rock.


http://soccer.seniorclassaward.com/women/candidates.aspx> The Voting Continues!

JorgXMcKie

Wow!! Plame must have been a better spy than I thought. The ability to say such stuff with a straight face is incredible. Joe Wilson -- honest. (hee-hee, chortle, guffaw, gasp, puff-pufff. Nope, I can't do it.) John Kerry -- exemplary military experience. Can't even try. I'm always surprised Kerry can keep from guffawing when he mentions it.

What a woman!!

motionview

Please Tom, you have to go through the Katie Couric / 60 Minutes interview of Plame. Katie is either completely incompetent or so biased that she makes Gunga Dan look as "level-headed as a Texas anvil".

JorgXMcKie

Wow!! Plame must have been a better spy than I thought. The ability to say such stuff with a straight face is incredible. Joe Wilson -- honest. (hee-hee, chortle, guffaw, gasp, puff-pufff. Nope, I can't do it.) John Kerry -- exemplary military experience. Can't even try. I'm always surprised Kerry can keep from guffawing when he mentions it.

What a woman!!

kim

La langue de Pierre est au coin de sa bouche.
============================================

Sue

The rendition story that won the Pulitzer for Dana Priest was a re-write of an earlier story. The first time it appeared, it didn't garner much attention. The war was popular. 9/11 was still fresh. So, they took that story and ran it again and voila, rendition became Bush's story. If I am remember the first story correctly, Clinton played a prominent role in ramping up renditions.

clarice

I think TM ought to follow Michael Yon's lead and make available his work on such things as Plame and rendition to the press free of charge provided that they indicate it is a dispatch. I'd dateline it "Probity,USA".

Sue

HLF verdict in. Not good for the prosecution.

Sue
The jurors found one defendant not guilty on 30 of 32 counts facing him. Two of the men on trial were found not guilty on all 32 counts. Jurors were not able to reach verdicts on the two other men, telling the judge they didn't feel further deliberation would change that.

http://www.wbap.com/Article.asp?id=497246&spid=6051>WBAP

Jane

Most of the Holy Land defendants found "Not Guilty" being reported by Fox. Some completely NG, some partially NG and some hung.

Jane

Oh I should have waited for Sue - sheesh

Sue

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/102207dnmetholyland.1878fd716.html>Dallas Morning News

The original chairman and director of endowments of the Holy Land Foundation was found not guilty of supporting terrorism by sending money to charity committees controlled by Hamas.
Bill in AZ

Val and SeeBS are just doing their part to try to help their master soros sell at least a few of yet another warehouse full of Bush bashing books he now owns. Would hate to be even a remote acquaintance of soros come Christmas time. At my place they would need a 4 wheel drive forklift to get that giftwrapped pallet of BDS books up to my house. Come to think of it, I could use them for fill where the summer rains washed away the driveway.

kim

Yet another new meaning to the phrase 'pulp fiction'. If you could seal it, Bill, it might be a cheap and effective solution.
=======================================

Topsecretk9
"We experienced an unprecedented number of visits by Vice President Cheney and senior staff," Plame added, speaking of months leading up to the 2003 invasion of Iraq. "Just having the body of the vice president there is highly unusual, politicizing and damaging to the national security," she argued. "They didn't go to the operations people, who understand that meddling with politics and politicians is a bad thing."

Boo Hoo. What a baby!

Remeber that Doug Fieth peice in which Tenet admits to - that Cheney and Libby knew the intelligence down to the names better than the CIA, and the CIA presentation was flat out embarassing?

Was Plame the presenter?

MayBee

Oh, she was soooo the person leaking to the press that Cheney and Hadley were bullying the CIA.

That's why her name was on the CIA briefer's notes to Libby the day they were talking about those leaks.

PeterUK

"It was hoorifying! WaPo is Bush's Pravda,"

Only in the deep, dark, demented dungeons of the liberal left.

Sue

WBAP is reporting the jury has been sent back for further deliberation.

Sue

http://www.wbap.com/Article.asp?id=497246&spid=6051>Confusion over HLF verdicts

Topsecretk9
"They didn't go to the operations people, who understand that meddling with politics and politicians is a bad thing."

It's official. Plame is a delusional arrogant as her blow hard husband.

Rick Ballard

Benjamin's water carrying for the Clinton mythos re renditions is admirable - if you are enamored of sycophancy. He needs to work on this one:

4. Rendition is just a euphemism for outsourcing torture.

Well, not historically. The guidelines for Clinton-era renditions required that subjects could be sent only to countries where they were not likely to be tortured -- countries that gave assurances to that effect and whose compliance was monitored by the State Department and the intelligence community.

Egypt and Jordan were favorite destinations for those subject to rendition on Clinton's OK. The bastinado and slow roasting are favored interrogation techniques in both countries and it's no "secret". Perhaps Benjamin should spend some time reading Schlesinger's hagiographies of Kennedy. Schlesinger lies in a much more convincing manner.

Sue

I can't remember where I read it but at some point Clinton told them not to tell him about the renditions. Just do it. Plausible deniability.

Sue

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,303842,00.html>Mistrial declared for 5 of 6 defendants. Weird.

MayBee

Other Tom & Sara-
You are a safe distance from the fires, I hope?

Jane

So now they are saying 3 of the jurors said the verdicts as read (unanimous not guilty) were incorrect and the Judge sent them back to deliberate.

Something funny going on here. How do you get a unanimous verdict wrong?

Rick Ballard

Sue,

When Clinton sends somebody out to whitewash it's very hard to know with certainty which malefactor and what indiscretion (illegality?, misfeasance?, malfeasnace?) she is trying to hide. My presumption is that Berger has blackmailed his way back into the center of the Clinton dung heap and this is as much about rehabilitating him as it is about generating smoke for Bubba.

Clinton's appointment of a convict to her "inner circle" is wholly unsurprising but she still feels a need to paint him a slightly different color. Maybe he clashes with the black drapes?

Topsecretk9

Here is more on what Elliot posted last night:

HANNITY & COLMES
Weeknights
9 p.m. ET

Monday, Oct. 22:
• We expose the true story of Joe & Valerie Wilson!

clarice

You're on a major roll today,Rick.

PeterUK

"Clinton's appointment of a convict to her "inner circle" is wholly unsurprising",
The girl has to do something to make herself look good and John Gotti is unavailable.

RichatUF

motionview-

...you have to go through the Katie Couric / 60 Minutes interview of Plame. Katie is either completely incompetent or so biased...

It was pretty clear from the interview that the script that was prepared was written by the VIPS. Also, CBS wasn't going to sandbag Plame because her book is also published by Viacom [ie Simon and Schuster]. Look at it as a 10 minute commercial for the book.

Rick-

Interesting points, Benjamin was a co-author on "The Age of Sacred Terror" and he was a big shot in the Clinton National Security Council.

Sue and Jane-

Re: wierdness and the HLF verdict. It's not wierd, it was expected. When the case against al-Arian et al collapased, it sealed in my mind at least that the Justice Department wasn't really serious about using the courts and the law to fight terrorism. In the al-Arian et al case, the indictment stretched out over 50 charges and the jury instructons were close to 100 pages. The HLF trial is similiarly, and probably more, complex. That level of complexity is not necessary and gives a nice hook to those who want to undermine the legal tools we can use to stop terror funding.

PeterUK

Spitzer damaging Hillary's prospects?

clarice

Rich--the NY cases weren't any different. But I dispute your characterization that the prosecutors wren't serious--what they did was the old Fitzaroonie, indict so many conspiracy and obstruction counts that it's hard to defend..In one case he had hundreds of counts like that and the Court made him cut them substantially down. The idea is to confuse the jury and hope that it decides to split the difference--didn't work this time, it appears.

MayBee

This is interesting, from the WaPo's review of Val's book:
Thus, by her own account, Valerie Wilson neither came up with the idea nor approved it. But she did participate in the process and flogged her husband's credentials. When Joe Wilson learned about her e-mail years later, she says, he was "too upset to listen" to her explanations.

How much does this man's ego have to be coddled? Why didn't she stop him-- and what else did she let him get away with?
Oh, I know, making her pose for Vanity Fair. Even though she had traveled under aliases.

Did she ever tell him he was going to far? Did she ask him not to write the Op-Ed under his own name?

MayBee

*too* far

Other Tom

Thanks, MayBee--we're under no fire threat here (Coronado is a virtual island), but I don't know about Sara. The ash dust is on everything, and the fire smell is very evident. Weather forecast for the next 36 hours or so is not favorable.

Other Tom

I don't see how you folks can be discussing all this dreck while ignoring the most important story of the day: That pomous, insufferable butthole Thomas Lipton (he of Inside the Actors Studio) once earned his living as a pimp in Paris.

The all-time highlight of da Ali G Show was when my man Ali G duped that annoying poseur big-time.

Topsecretk9

When Joe Wilson learned about her e-mail years later, she says, he was "too upset to listen" to her explanations.

I don't get this?

Sara

Maybee, thanks for asking, but so far the fires are nowhere near where I am. However, I read just a few minutes ago that they evacuated the hospital in Poway and that is distressing in an emotional kind of way as the very first house we ever owned and raised our kids in sits only a 1/2 block or so from that hospital. We still have several friends in that neighborhood and I think I would feel very sad if I found out that home was in the path of the fire.

The palm trees in my yard are bent in half by the wind with the top fronds sweeping the ground with every gust. They are talking hurricane force winds with humidity at about 7%.

Finding the good in all this -- my sinuses have completely cleared in all this dry air.

RichatUF

clarice-

...the NY cases weren't any different...

Benevolence Int'l was tried in Chicago [our friend Fitz] and the defendant in that case plead out on racketeering charges. Which NY case?

Maybe I'm a bit wide of the mark but in these cases [some of which have been under investigation since the early 1990's] really don't belong in the US criminal justice system. The civil libertarians will figure this out when black, latino, and white supremacist gangs [and US citizens] are tried using these laws and precedence.

I don't see how it shows that the prosecutors "really cared" about the HLF trial when they threw in the whole kitchen at those guys. The indictment is here and there is something to be said for economy. Why not go with its strongest aspects, in simple terms, and those not caught up deport?

MayBee

Tops-
While Wilson was insisting that his wife had nothing to do with him going to Niger- even publishing it in his book- she didn't tell him she *had* had something to do with him going. She didn't tell him until "years later" that she wrote an email suggesting him for the job.

That's how delicate he is.

clarice

Rich--I agree with your view on economy. I, too, think this is ridiculous, but a friend sat in on one of the WTC bombing cases..I forget which..and reported Fitz had charges so many conspiracy counts the judge made him cut the charges down to one for every letter of the alphabet.

clarice

**chargeD***

Topsecretk9

Maybee --

So, she kept it from him for years?

I understand the delicate part - low-level and all that, but it still doesn't make sense to me

Joe Wilson - July 15, 2004

That is not true. The conclusion is apparently based on one anodyne quote from a memo Valerie Plame, my wife, sent to her superiors that says, "My husband has good relations with the PM [prime minister] and the former Minister of Mines (not to mention lots of French contacts), both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity." There is no suggestion or recommendation in that statement that I be sent on the trip. Indeed it is little more than a recitation of my contacts and bona fides.


I see what you are saying, she let him step on his own you know what time after time knowing he was speaking out of left field, but that is awfully sneaky on her part as his wife.

Sidenote, but he also, he wrote on July 2004

Valerie Plame, my wife

Then, on July 14, 2005

Wilson: My wife's name is Wilson. It is Mrs. Joseph Wilson. It is Valerie Wilson. And he named her. He identified her. So that argument I don't believe stands the test of — stands the smell test.
RichatUF

clarice-

...but a friend sat in on one of the WTC bombing cases..I forget which..and reported Fitz had charges so many conspiracy counts the judge made him cut the charges...

I think you might be talking about the Day of Terror trial and the seditious conspiracy re: Rahman et al. The SDNY also had the kitchen tossed in re: Yousef and the judge made them seperate out the WTC charges and the Bojinka and PAL 434 charges. I re-read what I wrote above and want to re-visit it because it didn't quite come out the way I was thinking. Need to get my afternoon coffee.

The HLF trial seems to be a problem with the jury, with one or more recalcitrant jurors not participating. IIRC, this was a similiar problem with the al-Arian et al trial [among other issues].

Sue
How dirty did the tricks get? Ms. Wilson describes being denied protection by the C.I.A., fearing for her children’s safety, finding out that her tax returns were being audited and having been lucky enough to discover that some bolts holding the Wilsons’ outdoor deck, high above the ground, had disappeared.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/22/arts/22masl.html>Sheesh

Sue

Sorry, wrong thread.

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