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February 13, 2008

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kim

One of the most radicalizing moments of my life was listening to feminists defend Bill Clinton, and trash Lewinsky. It's these people who still like Hillary.
=============

clarice

It was an appalling thing to watch, wasn't that,Kim?

kim

It was my first clue to the devastating dissonance shot through progressive thought.
==========================

hit and run

From Geraghty we find…


Wisconsin Poll: Democrats No Better on Iraq Than Bush

Some eye-opening polls result from Strategic Vision in Wisconsin:

7. Do you believe that Democrats in Congress have a better plan to resolve the Iraq War then President Bush?
Yes 18%
No 71%
Undecided 11%


Poor EIGHTEEN percenters.

PaulL

It was because ABORTION was more important to the feministis than any individual woman, or even a whole slew of women, as in this case.

clarice

IMO It is the wont of persons drawn to "movements" that they regularly sacrifice individuals for what is perceived at the time to be a grander purpose only to realize too late that it was the jettisoning of those individuals which ended the movement.
I also never met a "great" person recognized for his contrinution to others who wasn't a beast to his own family.

Rick Ballard

"It was my first clue to the devastating dissonance shot through the progressive thought Hegelian master/slave construct which is the foundation of all identity politics."

I know, it takes much more time to write it that way but "progressive thought" requires a Krupp Ironiedetektor (an ACME ironometer would just melt). Or a link to the Wiki page on the meaning of oxymoron.


Ralph L

Paul, Gore wasn't going to outlaw abortion. It was their hatred of Republicans the rallied them to Clinton.

Who has been misogynous in the primaries? With (white) women voting for a woman, and blacks for a black, I think it's the reverse of misogyny and the particular racism MoDo claims is active.

Other Tom

I am enjoying this meltdown hugely--I like to imagine the private thoughts of Lanny Davis, Paul Begala, Carville, the whole scumbag bunch, and especially Bubba and Hillary themselves. What a shock it must be to Bubba that not just the American people, but his own Democrtic party are lustily rejecting the chance to restore him to the White House.

The man is such a narcissist and solipsist that I'm sure that he has himself convinced that that's not what is really happening--that it must be some dirty dealing, some criminal conspiracy that is denying him his restoration. Let us hope he spends the rest of his life pondering what the hell happened to him.

Meantime the Obama folks are doing some arithmetic that makes it quite clear that nothing can stop him but a putsch by a bunch of mostly white party insiders. And we know damn well that the Vile Pair are doing the same arithmetic.

Cecil Turner

I know I got a chuckle out of this one:

I know that the attacks against powerful women can be harsh and personal and unfair, enough to make anyone cry.
Or is it just me?

And we know damn well that the Vile Pair are doing the same arithmetic.

She's not dead yet. [It's only a flesh wound.] At any rate, I'll believe it when the stake is through the heart, holy wafers in the mouth, etc.

PeterUK

"We’ll never know how much of the backlash is because she’s a woman or because she’s this woman or because of the ick factor of returning to the old Clinton dysfunction."

To coin the feminist maxim,"The personal is the political",they just don't like her.

hit and run

OT:
The man is such a narcissist and solipsist that I'm sure that he has himself convinced that that's not what is really happening--that it must be some dirty dealing, some criminal conspiracy

No that's what Hillary will say.

Bill will just say that Hillary is an ugly repellent b%%ch.

And even if he's only half right on why she is losing...he is still half right.

clarice

(OT) My cat has made a seat for herself on top of my printer to get a better view of her new cat dvd--HWH

MayBee

Bill will just say, "Hey, world class genius, can I have my divorce now?"

Rick Ballard

"She's not dead yet."

I would suggest renting Night of the Living Dead over the weekend and watching it four or five times. The Black Knight is a comparative piker.

The people of TX and OH have a golden opportunity to bring Broom One to a final crash landing.

Save Toto - Vote BHO!

Topsecretk9

Via Memoranduem

And some just want something new. They appreciate the fact that Clinton was a successful president and his wife was an able partner, but they never loved the couple as much as they feared them.

Pretty revealing...

David Wilhelm, who managed Bill Clinton's winning 1992 presidential campaign and went on to be the youngest Democratic National Committee chairman in history, is set to endorse Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) this afternoon.
PeterUK

Time to measure how much Gotterdammerung Hillary has in her soul.If she decides to go Valkyrie on Obama's ass,then all McCain has to do is speak the lines and not fall over the furniture.

kim

Too late to save Nessie; she's dead, a victim of global warming.
===================================

Other Tom

I don't think she'll do it, PUK. Not because she has a selfless bone in her body, but because she knows it wouldn't do her any good. And she never takes her eye off the Main Chance.

John

"I know that the attacks against powerful women can be harsh and personal and unfair, enough to make anyone cry."

Yes, I laughed too. It should have read "against powerful women, like, oh, I dunno, ME, not that I think about those things at all..."

Jack is Back!

I wonder how many nails it takes to seal her coffin. Certainly, having Pinch and Judy (sub MoDo) Show making light of your "experience" and bringing up that "90's thing" seems to be finish and trim carpentry.

PeterUK

"And she never takes her eye off the Main Chance."

Every time she takes her eyes of the Main Chancer he grabs another intern

Jane

"We’ll never know how much of the backlash is because she’s a woman or because she’s this woman or because of the ick factor of returning to the old Clinton dysfunction."

Trust me, we know. It has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that she is a woman. If anything she got as far as she did because she is a woman. It's not like she has 35 years of accomplishment under her belt.

Both Hill and MoDo give feminism a bad name.

MayBee

I know that the attacks against powerful women can be harsh and personal and unfair, enough to make anyone cry.

That is entirely true. It is also true of the attacks against powerful men.
And non-powerful people of each gender as well.

Ann

Funny, I have never seen Condi Rice, a truly brilliant and accomplished woman who came from nothing to become the first black female Secretary of State, Cry or Demand an Apology!

Has MoDo ever defended Dr. Rice? Feminism is for a select few, is it not.

Remember this: Condi in Colin Powell's Shoes

Ann

Quess who said this:

"I think she did the right thing to stick up, ........., but for women everywhere. The level of blatant, vicious sexist comments by some people in this campaign has been appalling." He also applauded her for standing up for "basic human decency."

UNBELIEVABLE

kim

We need a pool for the date of Bill's meltdown.
===========================

anduril

Sorry to butt in on the Hillary bashing, but I thought this WSJ editorial just said it so well:

Obama's Wiretap Votes

Now and then sanity prevails, even in Washington. So it did yesterday as the Senate passed a warrantless wiretap bill for overseas terrorists while killing most of the Lilliputian attempts to tie down our war fighters.

"We lost every single battle we had on this bill," conceded Chris Dodd, which ought to tell the Connecticut Senator something about the logic of what he was proposing. His own amendment -- to deny immunity from lawsuits to telecom companies that cooperated with the government after 9/11 -- didn't even get a third of the Senate. It lost 67-31, though notably among the 31 was possible Democratic Presidential nominee Barack Obama. (Hillary Clinton was absent, while John McCain voted in favor.)

It says something about his national security world view, or his callowness, that Mr. Obama would vote to punish private companies that even the bipartisan Senate Intelligence Committee said had "acted in good faith." Had Senator Obama prevailed, a President Obama might well have been told "no way" when he asked private Americans to help his Administration fight terrorists. Mr. Obama also voted against the overall bill, putting him in MoveOn.org territory.

The defeat of these antiwar amendments means the legislation now moves to the House in a strong position. Speaker Nancy Pelosi is in the Dodd-Obama camp, but 21 Blue Dog Democrats have sent her a letter saying they are happy with the Senate bill. She may try to pass the restrictions that failed in the Senate, and Republicans should tell her to make their day. This is a fight Senator McCain should want to have right up through Election Day, with Democrats having to explain why they want to hamstring the best weapon -- real-time surveillance -- we have against al Qaeda.

kim

Can we have a do-over on the Ashcroft hospital visit?
===============================

clarice

Obama is not stupid. I think he's a shrewd manipulator..and that he played this song and dance to get the left on board...he needs them to get the nomination. (Let's hope that he realizes that alfter the election he needs them not at all.)

Other Tom

It would be nice to entertain that hope, Clarice. But one might be wise to balance that hope against a corresponding fear: that this guy really is as genuinely Far Left as everthing in his record would suggest.

All the garbage about people "fearing a powerful woman" runs smack dab up against the universal conservative admiration of Maggie Thatcher. That's an inconvenient notion for the MoDo's, so they never, ever mention it. It's as if Thatcher had never existed.

kim

Obama is a false prophet. Charismatic and wrong, and he will show it in spades by November.
=============================

kim

Oops, I swear 'spades' was innocent.
===================

clarice

He's just like Hill, I think--whatever works to get him what he wants.As head of the Harvard law review he NEVER even wrote one article--no paper trail at all..Nada. Not present or not writing.

kim

Great idea, C. Maybe, as Chief Executive, he'll do nothing.
====================================

PeterUK

"It's as if Thatcher had never existed."

For British feminists,she didn't.Mention Margaret Thatcher and there is an instant replay of the bedroom scene from "The Exorcist".I think most of them would like a female Prime Minister, as long as it isn't another woman.

hit and run

Well, we learned recently that 1 in 5 Brits don't think Churchill was real -- give it a few years and Thatcher will catch right up to him.

Nick Kasoff

clarice - Obama is every bit as liberal as you think. So is pretty much every other Democrat - the "Big Tent Party" has become very narrow under the pressure of moveon.org and other well funded lefty activist groups. If you don't believe me, ask Joe Lieberman. Disagree with the far left on anything, and they'll toss you out on your behind.

Nick Kasoff
The Thug Report

clarice

The only concrete thing I recall him saying is that he'd attack Pakistan with UN troops. It'd be worth voting for him just to watch that battle force in action.

kim

What's this? Mark McKinnon, a McCain adviser says he won't work against Obama. I'm tellin' ya, there is a sickness loose in the land.
============================

Rick Ballard

Considering that his opposition is a little sketchy about the difference between an M-16 and a F-16, McCain should start tossing out a bit of military jargon every now and then. BHO may be very intelligent but he is also profoundly ignorant, as his "invade Pakistan with Blue Helmets" demonstrates.

I'd suggest that McCain also go after both of them on economics but that might not be too wise.

kim

What? An angry, old, white, WARMONGERING, candidate? Where's the hope for change?
================================

PeterUK

"Well, we learned recently that 1 in 5 Brits don't think Churchill was real -- give it a few years and Thatcher will catch right up to him."

Nah! Maggie will become a legendary demon that feminists frighten their test tube children with.

Ann

I can't figure out why BHO agreed to more debates with the RW. He has gotten this far on marshmellows, he has all the mo and yet he is risking it with more debates. He is much better preaching hope than debating the RW. Maybe all the gold medals recently have gone to his head.

Like Clarice said "Not present or not writing" seems to be the ticket. I think he should add "No more debates with the devil"!

Yachira

"I know that the attacks against powerful women can be harsh and personal and unfair, enough to make anyone cry."

Dowd is many things, but she's not powerful: moronic maybe, but not powerful.

tom swift

Is it possible that MoDo simply doesn't recognize the distinction between misogyny and misandry? Misandry is definitely a factor in the race so far; misogyny, I don't know, but I doubt it.

centralcal

Kim: I thought I read somewhere yesterday that McKinnon would go so far as to support Obama if he is the Dem candidate, meaning I guess that he would leave the McCain campaign. Did you see anything along those lines?

centralcal

Yes -- I did read it! At HotAir (who linked to the original interview with the Baltimore Sun):

Q: Are you committed to working for and supporting McCain no matter who the Democratic nominee is?

McKinnon: If the Democratic nominee is Barack Obama, I will not work in the general election. I will, however, still support and vote for John McCain. I just don’t want to work against an Obama candidacy. I think a McCain vs. Obama race would be a great choice for the country…"

Sue

I saw my first Obama ad on Dallas area tv tonight. Dallas Morning News is endorsing him. You can bet he is the most liberal if DMN is endorsing him.

anduril

The WSJ (in their editorial, The Phenom) offers some advice that seems IMO sound in general:

The votes that Mr. McCain should really be worrying about, and preparing for, are those being cast for Mr. Obama. If he does go on to defeat Mrs. Clinton, Mr. Obama will only become more of a legend and more of a media favorite. The Republican won't be able to win in November with the kind of trench-warfare, turnout fight that might work against the Clintons. He's going to need his own reform agenda, one that competes for the "change" mantle and is about the future more than the past.
Fat man

I will believe Hillbilly is done when I hear this song:

Ding Dong!
The Wicked Witch is dead!
Wake up, you sleepy head!
Rub your eyes,
Get out of bed.
Wake up, the Wicked Witch is dead!
She's gone where the Goblins go
Below...below...below.
Yo ho, let's open up and sing,
And ring the bells out.
Ding Dong! The merry-oh!
Sing it high,
Sing it low.
Let them know
The Wicked Witch is dead!

Sue

Via Drudge...

NYT THURSDAY: Clinton's advisers acknowledged it would be difficult to catch up in race for pledged delegates even if she succeeded in winning 3 states on which she is most pinning her hopes: Ohio and Texas in March and Pennsylvania in April. Dem party's rules would be decided obstacle in efforts to catch up to Obama before voting phase of nominating process ends later in spring... Developing...

buddy larsen

anduril, re your comment above on BHO's FISA vote, you left out this part:

"Hillary Clinton was even worse. She didn't show up to vote. This was the most important national security vote in her Senate career. And, even though the campaign would not excuse her from doing her job in any event, the Potomac Primary was in the DC area. McCain and Obama managed to get to the Hill without difficulty. Not Clinton. She has no excuse. The craven decision not to vote — not to be accountable — was calculated ... and this from the candidate who slammed Obama for ducking the tough votes as an Illinois legislator."

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=M2Q3ZjNjZDc5YzRhNGY2YTIyYzc1MDE1ODllMTMxMmI=

hit and run

Well, with McCain having it wrapped up, you've seen the reports of Republicans crossing over in open primaries to vote for either Obama or Clinton, depending on who they would rather face in the general.

So, what happens? Obama wins the nomination, then wins the general and come about Thanksgiving we see Republicans driving around with...

"Don't Blame Me, I Voted for Clinton"

...bumperstickers.

Well.

Pleasant dreams all.

newyorkdude

Poor, innocent feminists. They actually believe: "I know that the attacks against powerful women can be harsh and personal and unfair, enough to make anyone cry."

How about changing a word or two: "I know that the attacks against fathers in divorce court can be harsh and personal and unfair, enough to make anyone cry."

How many divorced fathers will vote for Hillary?

Bill in AZ

You can bet he is the most liberal if DMN is endorsing him.

You must be mistaken Sue. I heard by my own ears from the Dean of the Honors College of a large University in western Texas that Dallas Morning News leans slightly right. He encouraged his students to expand their critical thinking skills by subscribing to al-Guardian for some "balance". Dean of the Honors College - he wouldn't mislead - would he?

Porchlight

Pathetic Edwards can't decide which Dem to endorse

What a tool, playing the tease over his stupid endorsement. The man is an embarrassment to his party and that's saying something. I'm so grateful he's gone.

PaulL

Edwards. Edwards. Wasn't he the VP for Kerry in 2004? Why would anyone care about his endorsement?

PaulL

I think it'll be pretty darn hard for the American public to hear nothing but gaseous platitudes from now until November.

Eventually, the great Teleprompter reader is going to have to talk specifics.

I sure would like to see Mrs. Clinton have another comeback, though.

Her only chance is to do something wild in the debates, like stomp over to Obama and confront him, and hope that he flinches and looks wimpy. Or if she could get him to cry, that would be good too.

scribbler

Ann, the Chicago Hope agreed to more debates because he knows that Hillary will have to go on the attack, which turns the volume on her shrewishness up to eleven.

Spartee

"All the garbage about people "fearing a powerful woman" runs smack dab up against the universal conservative admiration of Maggie Thatcher."

Don't forget Jeanne Kirkpatrick (sp?). She is one conservatives often light candles to remember.

Paul

I can appreciate the shaedenfraude everyone feels as Broom One augers into the tarmac, but that is a case of winning the battle only to lose the war. I said a while back BHO was a tsunami on the horizon and what will be torn up and swept out to sea is America as we know it. The progressives are about to fulfill their Gramscian destiny. With the media, academia, and all three branches of the government in their grip they will soon attain critical mass. Hillary was our last chance to defeat the Dems this November. The game is over.

PaulL

From one Paul to another, I do not share your pessimism, although I agree that Mrs. Clinton would have been easier to beat in the general election.

Of course I thought Scooter would be found Not Guilty by a jury, so what do I know.

JM Hanes

Sue:

On the NYT quote," Clinton's advisers acknowledged it would be difficult to catch up in race for pledged delegates even if she succeeded in winning 3 states on which she is most pinning her hopes: Ohio and Texas in March and Pennsylvania in April."

I'm not sure what Clinton's weird quasi vacation is all about. Maybe she's really afraid to look like she was fighting for states she might lose, but I'd have thought Giuliani pretty much proved the folly of holding out for brass rings. In the meantime, it looks like they're working hard on the superdelegates, somebody somewhere observed that any of the supers who haven't been willing to commit to Hillary yet are hardly likely to do so after a popular vote win by Obama.

JM Hanes

TM: "But there are certainly people (OK, women) in need of a eulogy for their feminist vision, so it was nice of Ms. Dowd to step up."

What feminist vision? Which women?

MoDo has been talking to herself for years.

Rick Ballard

PaulL,

I took a look at the Catholic split in primaries after Rendell made his remarks. If that split is repeated in WI then I believe it confirms that BHO is actually the weaker candidate. The breakout in primaries (votes - not causcuses) is as follows - Catholic % of vote first, then BHO's % among Catholics:

CA - 33 - 30
NY - 37 - 30
NJ - 37 - 29
MA - 45 - 33
FL - 23 - 24
MD - 21 - 44
VA - 17 - 53
CT - 41 - 39

I don't believe it's racial at all. Catholics are pretty familiar with the general efficacy of religious instruction to the very young. BHO's madrasa years aren't unnoticed, nor is the good Rev. Wright's peculiar brand of heresy completely unknown. Rendell was really saying that BHO can't carry PA in the general. MI either.

Cecil Turner

From one Paul to another, I do not share your pessimism . . .

I don't either. At some point, one would hope that a critical mass of the electorate would notice that the freshman first-term junior Senator from IL is perfectly unqualified for the primary duty of the position for which he is interviewing. (But hopefully that'll be after the beast's coffin is sealed with lead, encased in obdurate material, assorted sigils of power stamped into theologically significant strategic positions about the mass, and dropped into a deep dark undisclosed location.) What can I say . . . I'm an optimist.

I sure would like to see Mrs. Clinton have another comeback, though.

Aiiiee, it burns it burns!

sam

I've thoroughly enjoyed the Clinton Awakening that has happened with many Dems over the last few months, but I still have a bitter taste in my mouth after trying to show them the light for fifteen years or so. The battles were fierce and it always seemed that no matter how heavy the evidence you showed them it was always rejected out of hand and usually accompanied by abuse in defense of the Clintons.

I guess it's too much to ask now that in recognition that they may have been wrong they seriously consider the validity of warnings about Obama.

Rick Ballard

Sam,

I think Dr. Dean is planning on filling your prescription in 2012.

obsessed

Okay ... you hate Hillary, but ultimately you want the lovely and talented Mr. McCain in the White House, and currently, Obama is outperforming the broomed one by a double-digit spread against your guy.

So what's a JustOneMinuteMan (or MinuteMaid) to do? For whom do you root in TX, OH and PA? ¿Y por qúe?

JM Hanes

Ran across an interesting factoid via Barcepundit: Spain is the top exporter of arms to sub-Saharan Africa. Who'd a thunk it?

JM Hanes

For MoDo and anyone else who isn't clear on what the real feminists look like.

Topsecretk9

Via Memo---

Laugher of the century...Lanny Davis would like us to NOT -and here's the laugher- "Re-Write" history ANYMORE!!!


But let's not rewrite history


Yes. The whole r"ewriting of history" thing should just stop NOW that Hillary is running!!!! goddamnmit!

Topsecretk9

crap

whole "rewriting of history"

Topsecretk9

Ran across an interesting factoid via Barcepundit: Spain is the top exporter of arms to sub-Saharan Africa. Who'd a thunk it?

Posted by: JM Hanes | February 14, 2008 at 01:23 AM

JMH!!!!!

Did you not see my posts on this and their murky conections to uranium and Brazil sistah?

Homes!

Elliott

and dropped into a deep dark undisclosed location.

With Dick Cheney standing guard like the knights in the Indiana Jones movie?

Elliott

From ABC News, via Hot Air:

In deciding between his one-time rivals, Edwards appears deeply divided. Several former advisers likened his thought process to a heart-versus-head split — with his heart favoring Sen. Barack Obama's strong message of change, and his head attracted to Clinton's tested nature and commitment to tough fights.

In my opinion, he doesn't much care for Hillary and he's envious of Obama, which leads me to suspect that any endorsement of his will go to Hillary in the same way that Patrick Woolton's endorsement went to Francis Urquhart, another British Prime Minister we don't hear much about come to think of it.

Mister Snitch!

Well yeah, could it BE more painfully obvious that the only reason Hillary was (note the use of past tense) in position to capture the presidency was because Bill got there first? How, exactly, was this a triumph of feminism? Or were we just supposed to ignore the big elephant (uh, donkey) in the room?

And next time, ladies, try to INSIST on running for office without attempting to browbeat the men. Telling me I'm a misogynist if I don't vote for you is, at best, counterproductive. Make no mistake: Billary did NOT advance the day when a woman becomes President. She set it back a good ways though.

moptop

It is just one more piece of evidence that the Democrats should have taken their medicine at the time and removed Bill. Putting Al Gore in the WH. The perversion of their own morals on important feminist issues like sexual harrassment, their own willing destruction of their own arguments. The open hypocracy, viz Sen Packwook, on the issue, all have done much to destroy their cause. They learned that you can fool some of the people some of the time.

Chester White


Why is Hillary's fade so hard to understand?

She's a friggin' bitch from hell, an annoying, hectoring, screeching, lying, manipulating, arrogant, nasty, hateful, self-absorbed, selfish, vindictive harridan.

Half the country has clearly understood this for about 15 years, and half of the other half is figuring it out finally.

To each of you in the latter group, welcome to the party, pal!

PeterUK

Chester White,you sound like the husband.

hit and run

Via Kaus, we are treated to the next big Cat Fight!

BILL GEDDIE: Haven't we heard all along that [John Edwards] doesn't like [Hillary Clinton], haven't we heard this?

MARK HALPERIN: Yes, that's right. And I can tell you, he's really skeptical of her ability to be the kind of president he wants. But, he kinda thinks Obama is..he thinks Obama is kind of a pussy. He has real questions about Obama's toughness, his readiness for the office.he has real doubts about Obama, not just as a president, but as a general election candidate.


Meeeeeow!!!

Jane

I'm certainly ready for a good cat fight Hit. Let the games begin.

qrstuv

"It’s not yet clear which prejudice will infect the presidential contest more — misogyny or racism."

Dowd doesn't even mention the OTHER prejudice -- the deep conviction felt by all good progressives that conservatives are misogynistic, racist, backwards troglodytes.

kim

It is amazing the hate revealed when you scratch a progressive.
====================================

glasater

Happened to be with a group of senior citizen women yesterday--all life long D's--all committed to Hillary--and scared to death of Obambi. Oh--and they are all Catholic.
Just trying to cover all the bases here.

Sue

Dean of the Honors College - he wouldn't mislead - would he?

So it would seem.

Rick Ballard

Tops,

Sharpton has joined Team BHO and provides a sincere rebuttal to Lanny Davis. With Sharpton at his side, BHO sure seems unbeatable. Who could fail to be moved by the pic with that article?

hit and run

Me:
Via Kaus, we are treated to the next big Cat Fight!


UPDATE: Kind of burried the lede there, didn't I?

I agree with John Edwards!

RichatUF

Rick-

I got misty eyed looking at it. From the article: He said his National Action Network is discussing a possible march on DNC headquarters, adding, "This smacks of the same stuff we accused the Republicans of in Florida in 2000 . . . changing the rules."

How would the lawsuit work-Clinton v. Obama [Fund's piece]? MI and FL were primaries, but I would think that the NV decision regarding association would become important, although it was a caucus.

Would Team Clinton make it an equal protection argument ignoring that MI and FL state parties knew for months the risks moving their primaries as far forward as they did? Also since MI and FL "didn't count" and the national party is not seating a delegation, everyone in those states has been equally disenfranchised because of actions of the state and national parties. Which court would have jursdiction and could we [please let this happen] be counting hanging chads again South Florida to devine intent with Al Sharpton banging on the door with a bull horn?

Just brainstorming out loud here...interesting that Sharpton would be all for disenfranchisement when it is his candidate that it helps.

JM Hanes

moptop:

"It is just one more piece of evidence that the Democrats should have taken their medicine at the time and removed Bill. Putting Al Gore in the WH. The perversion of their own morals on important feminist issues like sexual harrassment, their own willing destruction of their own arguments. The open hypocracy, viz Sen Packwook, on the issue, all have done much to destroy their cause."

Now that's a thought-provoking formulation that deserves elaboration. In fact, TM should steal it and put it in a post.

Unfortunately, Democrats, like the Clintons, prefer to blame everyone but themselves for the sorry state of their party over the last decade. The brief spasms of self-examination occasioned by their putatively inexplicable losses at the polls inevitably lead to the same smug conclusion: At least we're not as bad as Republicans! That's a big part of why the "Bush Lied!" meme quickly became such a prominent & durable feature of liberal rhetoric. They only stooped to defend a guy who lied about sex, you see, while Republicans....

If ever there were ever a time that "progressives" might be open to contemplation of the real Billary, it's now. Framing the issue as a choice between Clinton and Gore, given Al's subsequent star turn, throws a rather different light on the ultimate consequences of the Democratic enabling that continued almost unabated till Bill's Jesse Jackson comment in South Carolina. Obama signalled a potential end to the "holiday from history" which included the entire Clinton administration when he observed that Reagan was more consequential than Bill. Once Hillary has actually won or lost the nomination, however, that moment, too, will slip from conscious Democratic thought.

JM Hanes

TSK9: Should have known you'd already be there when I finally showed up!

RichatUF

Also-

from that article:

"This smacks of the same stuff we accused the Republicans of in Florida in 2000 . . . changing the rules."

wasn't that Bush's argument: that Gore and the Florida Supreme Court were trying to change the rules...so doesn't Sharpton have the argument a bit backwards and shouldn't he say..."This is the same stuff Democrats tried to do to Republicans in FL 2000, we can't do it to each other now."

Sue

Rick,

At least one democrat could fail to be moved by the pic.

February 7, 2008 -- HOOPS legend http://www.nypost.com/seven/02072008/gossip/pagesix/the_wrong_card_288940.htm>Charles Barkley says he definitely plans to run for governor of Alabama, but wants no campaign help from rabble-rousers like Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson. "I don't believe in them. They always play the race card, and you can't always play the race card," the former Houston Rockets power forward tells next month's Playboy. "Sometimes the race card is needed but not in every situation. We have to hold blacks more accountable for their actions."
cathyf

Well, one way to look at it is this... The DNC created the rules that said that no state other than the designated few (IA, NH, SC, etc.) was allowed to pick their delegates before Super Tuesday. Now certainly we have freedom of speech and association, and people can express preferences whenever they please. For example, remember that Iowa had a "straw poll" last fall.

The most reasonable assertion is that FL and MI conducted statewide straw polls, and that neither state has conducted a Democratic primary yet. The obvious remedy would be for FL and MI to be forced to hold a primary/caucus/whatever and to choose Democratic delegates sometime before the deadline. (The rules must have a deadline, and the last primary scheduled now is in June, so we know that there is plenty of time for FL and MI to organize and conduct some sort of election.)

Which Obama would probably win.

In fact, you read it here first, I would predict that if Clinton continues to make noises about seating delegates based upon the two straw polls, then Obama will file suit in one or both states seeking to force them to conduct primaries or caucuses in March/April/May.

The practical implications are enormous -- how do they keep republicans from voting? If they limit voting to people who did not vote in the republican primary in January, how do they distinguish between the "real" republicans and the democrats who crossed over because there was no democrat race? What about all the "real" republicans who didn't vote at all?

If FL and MI are forced to have races late in the game, those races could be decisive. It could very well be Obama who ends up winning by manipulating the rules...

JM Hanes

Rich:

"...interesting predictable that Sharpton would be all for disenfranchisement when it is his candidate that it helps."

Fixed it for ya! Frankly, I don't see any real basis for a suit, do you? It's not like caucusing is exactly representative, either. Shoot, considering how poorly Hillary did in caucus states, it's a wonder she's left them out of the mix. If I thought that party pols could handle the intellectual pretzle, I'd say that the very idea of infra-party lawyering would be a real object lesson in the wisdom of appealing to the courts to get what you've been otherwise denied.

Paul

Well I too hope that the electorate will wake up and realize that BHO is in way over his head and come to their senses, but as they say hope is not a strategy. Please realize though that when given two candidates with equally disastrous agendas the dangerous one is always the one with charisma. Given a choice between Nurse Ratchet and the Pied Piper at least with the first you'll get some people who will chafe and resist.

MayBee

wasn't that Bush's argument: that Gore and the Florida Supreme Court were trying to change the rules

That's what I was going to say!

bandit

It is amazing the hate revealed when you scratch a progressive. No doubt - the great thing is listening to them project their own racism and misogyny on to others.

Appalled Moderate

JMH:

Alternative history is always fascinating, but, I wonder if things would really have been much different with either the Democrats or the Republicans had Bill quit.

If Clinton resigned in early 2008 (or summer 2008), Gore would have become President and would have been extremely popular. But the Republicans, too, would likely have been seen as correct in their view of the Clintons and Clintonism. Instead of losing seats in 2008, they likely would have gained a few.

There would have been a cadre of angry Democrats ready to wage war at every opportunity, and a welling up of sympathy for Hillary. She would have run for Senate in 2000 and won.

Gore, on the other hand, would likely have pushed ratification of Kyoto. Clinton had the politcal smarts to know that was a non-starter. Gore did not have that wisdom. The ugly fight with a GOP Congress wiuld have driven Gore's favorables down to very low levels. Bush, pledging a compassionate conservatism (and, likely, a pragmatic environmentalism) wins, likely with the popular vote. 2001 likely unfolds the same way as it did, except that there are probably enough Republicans in the senate that the whole Jeffords thing does not happen.

In other words, I really don't think, even if Clinton had spared the country its one year of Monica, the Democrats would have been better off now. In fact, since Hillary would have ridden Bill to the Senate, its unlikely he would be any less shameless or powerful now.

Sometimes, a single decision can massively change the course of history. But sometimes not.

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