Getting To Know You

Barack Obama, 2004 Democratic Convention Keynote Speech:

There's not a black America and white America and Latino America and Asian America; there's the United States of America.

Rev. Jeremiah Wright, July 22, 2007:

Wright's strong sentiments were echoed in the Sunday morning service attended by NewsMax.

Wright laced into America's establishment, blaming the "white arrogance" of America's Caucasian majority for the woes of the world, especially the oppression suffered by blacks. To underscore the point he refers to the country as the "United States of White America." Many in the congregation, including Obama [but probably not there], nodded in apparent agreement as these statements were made.

Troubling.  But lest you worry that Obama has forgotten his own lofty rhetoric, here is Obama in damage control mode on March 15, 2008:

As I said in my speech at the convention in 2004, there is no Black America, or White America, or Asian America, or Latino America. There is the United States of America.

Whew, it's all good again.  AllahPundit pummels this, as well he might.

Obama also said this today:

...when people say things like my former pastor said, you know, you have to speak out forcefully against them.

Good point!  Did anyone pick up on the moment when Obama forcefully spoke out against the divisive "United States of White America" rhetoric last summer?  I know I missed it.

More from today's Obama:

We’ve got a lot of pent-up anger and bitterness and misunderstanding. But what I continue to believe in is that this country wants to move beyond these kinds of divisions. That this country wants something different.

Does Obama believe his own minister wants something different?  Can Obama point to any success he has had in moving his minister past anger and bitterness and misunderstanding?  (This will be tricky, since Obama apparently only learned in Feb 2007 that his minister harbored and expressed such thoughts.)

When does the Great Reconciliator actually reconcile?

Or does Obama's magic reconciliation only work at great distances, with those who don't really know him?

Let's put some meat on these reconciliation bones - per this report, Obama's remarks today also included this:

He said schools should do a better job of teaching all students African-American history "because that's part of American history," as well as women's struggle for equality, the history of unions, the role of Hispanics in U.S. and other matters that he suggested aren't given enough attention.

"I want us to have a broad-based history" taught in schools, he said, even including more on "the Holocaust as well as other issues of oppression" around the world.

What? On behalf of gays, lesbians, Native Americans, Asians, and left-handed Alaskans I deplore this limited approach to the teaching of American history.  Now, I assume the Asian sub-section will note the vital Chinese role in building our Western railroads, so let's not overlook the Irish, once a disprespected underclass that is now respectably mainstream.  C'mon, I have some bad self-esteem days just like everyone else (Perhaps coincidentally I am verging on a low self-esteem moment as I type this, or perhaps because I type this.)

Well - if an enhanced Victims Studies curriculum shouldered by our already struggling public schools is really Obama's bridge to a united tomorrow, please help us all.  Help us to keep a straight face, I should say.  My impression is that his minister, Jeremiah Wright, is an extremely intelligent and well-educated man who is well-versed in black history - how is his reconciliation progressing?

Comments

[dick]

I'm rather interested in what affect all this has on those who recently made up their minds to support Obama.

I read the essay by Camille Paglia in support of Barack just the other day where she essentially said she could never vote for Hillary. In light of the news about Barack has this had any change on her support for him. That would be an interesting essay to read.

[largebill]

We had a chance to run against a candidate who had not been vetted at all. By the Dem convention Clinton will have enough super-delegates convinced that between Rezko and the nutty pastor Obama is unelectable.

Limbaugh must be feeling like quite a fool now for helping keep Clinton alive in this race. If you have a chance to poor water on the witch just poor the damn water.

[boris]

Dunno. If not for keeping Hillary's campaign alive to this point there might never have been this kind of exposure. Seems Hannity has been pointing to this screed for over a year. Why now all of a sudden? Did right wing bloggers finally break through to the MSM or was there some help from ...

[Rick Ballard]

Water?

If it's not stake, cremation and scattering the ashes at sea you're kidding yourself.

There's always the possibility that Rush counted up delegates and went with RW on the basis of keeping her hopes up - and her claws functioning. The current objective is to have blood flow as freely and voluminously for as long as possible.

The Great Reconciler promises that he has a plan to heal all wounds. RW is just giving him a chance to prove his veracity by inflicting a few.

[sbw]

[Double post. I caught the end of the last thread.]

I dislike when someone is not straightforward, when someone dissembles, and when someone lies. The underlying problem is not the hatred expressed by Obama's minister. It is Obama.

Whether it is Obama on NAFTA, Obama on his house, Obama on Chicago hospital influence that seems to get his wife a $100K job and then a 200k raise, Obama on his minister, or Obama on unspecified, chameleon-like change in his stump speech.

The warning signs are clear. There is nothing there to trust.

[ben]

"Limbaugh must be feeling like quite a fool now for helping keep Clinton alive in this race. If you have a chance to poor water on the witch just poor the damn water."

Don't be so sure...the extended race has brought more scrutiny on Obama and has taken him down several notches from Messiah status, and rather than walking on water he is now merely walking on quicksand. Yes, this would have come out in the general, but then it would be attributed to Republican attack dogs and vast right wing conspiracies. On the other hand, if Hillary does pull it off, she might have alienated a key voting blocks, African-Americans and young idealistic liberals. So I really don't see a downside in having the circus continue.

That been said, the pleasure of seeing Hillary humiliated would have been great...but it could still happen.

[Sue]

If Obama wasn't aware of his preacher's hatred filled sermons, how do you explain this NYTs article from 4/30/2007?

where he fortified himself with recordings of Mr. Wright’s sermons,

“If Barack gets past the primary, he might have to publicly distance himself from me,” Mr. Wright said with a shrug. “I said it to Barack personally, and he said yeah, that might have to happen.”

So, what we are witnessing is what was discussed in April of 2007. But Obama didn't know.

[Sue]

I meant to use this quote from the article too.

“Reverend Wright is a child of the 60s, and he often expresses himself in that language of concern with institutional racism and the struggles the African-American community has gone through,” Mr. Obama said. “He analyzes public events in the context of race. I tend to look at them through the context of social justice and inequality.”

The Audacity of HopeLying. Obama not only knew of the sermons, he practiced the oratory style of his pastor.

[boris]

Yes, this would have come out in the general, ...

Not sure but doubt it.

[SunnyDay]

Sue that is the ultimate proof - he did know. Better save that one, I bet it's going to disappear.

[Ann]

From NBC's Chuck Todd
We have final delegate allocation estimates directly from the Iowa Democratic Party based on today's 99 county conventions. The results, Obama indeed did gain 7 delegates to up his total from 16 (earned on Jan. 3) to 23 now. Clinton upped her total by 1, from 15 to 16 and Edwards dropped 8 delegates to 6. Those six will be up for grabs, perhaps, at the Iowa Democratic Party state convention in June.

Here's the updated delegate total, counting these new Iowa allocations:

Pledged Count: Obama leads 1,407-1,252
Superdelegates: Clinton leads 253-217
OVERALL TOTAL: Obama leads 1,624-1,505

[Elliott]

With what I hope will be regarded as appropriate deference to our preeminent host, I humbly submit the following as "the [editorial] change we've been waiting for":

My impression is that his minister, Jeremiah Wright, is an extremely intelligent and well-educated man who is well-versed in black History.

[Sue]

From what I've been reading on pro-Obama sites, this is not going to matter to them. He may lose some of those democrats who were waffling between him and Hillary, but he isn't going to lose his base supporters. He is still the Messiah. And if he doesn't get the nominee, it will be ugly.

[Pug]

Seems I remember a letter Bill Clinton wrote to his draft board in the 1960's in which he said he "loathed" the military, and these were his words not his pastor's. He was also "unelectable" at that point. Not to mention that the Gennifer Flowers tapes had finished him off even before that.

[ben]

....He was also "unelectable" at that point.....

Clinton had to overcome draft-dodging and Gennifer, true, but remember he was running as a New Democrat, centrist candidate, a Southern boy. And if Obama gets the same 42% of the vote Clinton did, he will certainly lose.

[Dagpotter]

My son just did 9 weeks on the Holocaust in 8th grade Alabama middle school. I guess he could learn more about Hispanics. Unfortunately a large part of Black history in America is glossed over here.

[sbw]

Well, a lot of history history is glossed over in history. They don't know what to study, why, and all that matters anyway is that whatever is taught can be tested.

[Maggie]

It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out. I'm a Republican-leaning Independent who started this cycle committed to not voting for the Republicans in light of the disastrous last four years. I'm also the sort who would rather eat nails than vote for Hillary, who has exhibited zero by way of integrity. I'd have thought that if HRC managed to slime her way to the nomination that I'd have voted for McCain over Clinton. As much as I think the Republicans need to be out of office this year, I won't vote for Clinton under any circumstances.

So this is a new wrinkle for me. Now it seems like Obama might actually not win the nomination. And for what it's worth, I think it 's plain as day what's going on with him and Wright. Obama has a connection with that community, but also obviously doesn't harbor a single 'angry black man' bone in his own body. He loves them, but as he says, he represents a generation that has turned a page from that. You don't repudiate your fathers. You love them, but try to learn from their failings so that you don't repeat them. That's all that's happening there.

Am guessing y'all don't much care about that. Am pretty sure you don't buy it (not that you are open to buying anything that wouldn't slime the guy). But the reason I'm posting is not to try to change your mind. It's to make this observation about my funny situation. The ugliness of the way people like you are reacting to this. The willful desire to not even try to understand. The preference for taking him down on what is at bottom a bogus charge rather than taking him on over the issues. All of that makes me want to eat nails rather than vote for your candidate.

It would seem to make the GE a wild card. I'd have thought that Clinton's negatives would have made it difficult for her to win in November. But she's just clever enough that she might figure out a way to capture the voters who are angry at the OTT reaction from you guys. Indeed, she has remained pointedly quiet. And while some of the Clinton blogosophere is too stupid to shut up, other parts have quickly doped out that graciousness is the best policy here.

Funny if she's the one that walks away the winner here. I don't want to see her win dog catcher let alone the presidency. But if she does, I'll console myself with the thought that you guys got your ox gored. I'll enjoy that part of it.

[Rick Ballard]

Don't give up Hope, Maggie. True Change is always possible and we may yet become one in our Unified Diversity!

At least we're getting a better class of Moby out of this.

[Paul Zrimsek]

Obama has a connection with that community, but also obviously doesn't harbor a single 'angry black man' bone in his own body.

Fixed that for you, Maggie.

[Sue]

All of that makes me want to eat nails rather than vote for your candidate.

And just who do you think our candidate is? Most of us are holding our noses and voting for McCain. That's what most republican leaning independents will be doing this fall.

[Bill Peschel]

"Obama has a connection with that community, but also obviously doesn't harbor a single 'angry black man' bone in his own body. He loves them, but as he says, he represents a generation that has turned a page from that. You don't repudiate your fathers. You love them, but try to learn from their failings so that you don't repeat them. That's all that's happening there."

Maggie, I do not dispute the logic of your argument. It may even be true.

But don't we need to hear that from Obama? Don't we have a right to judge the man by his actions? By who he associates with? Not by what we "imagine" is going through his head. No one can judge that.

[ATM]

Maggie, it is hard to evaluate Obama. His personal blandness could be his real nature or it may just be part of concerted strategy to remain electable. One thing I do find highly likely is that Michelle Obama's views are very similar to Wright's. Do we want a racist first lady?

[Sue]

You don't repudiate your fathers.

Really? Then why is Obama repudiating his 'father'? Why did he and his pastor discuss his inevitable repudiation of him (Wright) if he got past the primaries? I don't think you are intending it this way, but it seems to me Obama is just another politician, not the Messiah we were promised.

[Sue]

I don't understand a republican leaning independent who could vote for either Obama or Clinton. I could understand a republican leaning independent who might see an Evan Bayh as a viable alternative. But two of the most liberal candidates in the race? How dows that work? What part of republican were you to begin with?

[Sara]

Pug: Dick Morris said the other night that Clinton came to him with the draft board letter problem believing it could derail his campaign. So...Morris and Clinton put their heads together and foisted the Flowers tapes on us to deflect from what they believed to be a campaign ending circumstance in the letter. In other words, they used the bimbo eruption to their advantage, at least in this instance.

[SteveMG]

A perhaps more interesting question is not why did Obama associate with Wright, but why did Wright continue to associate with Obama?

It certainly seems to me that the Obama of today - if he was the Obama of yesterday as well - would be considered by Wright as a betrayer of the black race; or at least someone ignorant of the true injustices done by America and white people.

What was in it for Wright?

[sbw]

Maggie, tell me something he stands for that is substantive that is worthwhile. So far he's for platitudes.

Does he believe in free trade? Does he believe in the free market economy? Does he believe in liberty? And if he believes in equality, what kind of equality does he believe in? If it is economic equality by mandate, he just doesn't understand economics.

And does he believe that more government is the answer to social problems? That goes against at least 300 years of economic history.

Nobody gives a rat's behind about one's skin, but we do care about when one acts like a snake oil salesman.

[Paul Zrimsek]

Incidentally, the video clips I've seen of Wright picked up a good deal of audience reaction. I've humored the occasional old fart in my time but I don't remember ever being quite that enthusiastic about it.

[Rick Ballard]

"What part of republican were you to begin with?"

The lifelong Democrat part. She's got good dudgeon but needs to work on those details just a tad.

[Porchlight]

So Moby Maggie, I'm curious - if Clinton is the nominee, for whom will you vote? Sounds like your choices will be eating nails or staying home. If I really believed you were a "Republican-leaning Independent," I guess the idea of you staying home would concern me. Yet strangely I just don't feel that worried.

[narciso]

The most disturbing thing, I've seen yet is that Gerald Posner, debunker of the JFK and MLK conspiracies; although he's become a promoter of one, beginning with his glimpse
of the Abu Zubeydah interrogation has become
a conspiracist himself; is still for Obama.
(Of course, this comes from his posting on
the Indonesian charity case, the Huffington
Post, linked by Glenn Reynolds)Posner, previewed some of the more extreme and unprovable assertions, about the Saudi plans to blow up their oil facilities in Huff Po* Arianna's fortune, comes from her divorce from 'husband' Michael Huffington, whose family fortune came from Indonesian oil.

Oprah, not surprisingly, attends Wright's church; from a preeningwrite up of the good Reverend in the Chicago Times; also from Glenn. You know, even with the example of Louis Faraakhan and Jesse Jackson, I kind of didn't expect this moonbattery in Chicago, Detroit or Baltimore, maybe. Tell me again, how this is different in nature, from Salafi& Wahhabi preachers like Messr's Quradawi in Quatar, Buraik in Saudi Arabia, et al. One recalls that Quradawi was one of
the first to preach disaprovingly of Sadat, before the Istambouli hit on him

[ben]

Maggie
"Obama has a connection with that community, but also obviously doesn't harbor a single 'angry black man' bone in his own body."

"Connection" to that community? He has a lot more than a connection...until we found out exactly what kind of "Christianity" was being espoused in that church Obama was clear that these were the people who "molded" him. He made a big deal out of attending church frequently, but now he has never heard any of this "appaling" stuff? You really buy that?

You are very deluded if you think Obama is not angry. He has a huge amount of righteous anger, the kind people have when they think they are being denied something they are entitled to.
Obama hates the U.S., that's pretty clear, (I know, he loves the U.S. that he wants to change us into), that's not being angry? His wife's statement, "I have never been proud of my country until Obama ran for President"...that's not angry?

[Ann]

RUSH would call Maggie a "seminar" Obama blogger. I don't believe she is a republican for one minute.

"The ugliness of the way people like you are reacting to this. The willful desire to not even try to understand. The preference for taking him down on what is at bottom a bogus charge rather than taking him on over the issues. All of that makes me want to eat nails rather than vote for your candidate."

Hey, Maggie, do you love America? I doubt it because you sure have alot of animus for people you don't even know here at JOM.

Enjoy the nails.

[hit and run]

SteveMG:
A perhaps more interesting question is not why did Obama associate with Wright, but why did Wright continue to associate with Obama?

It certainly seems to me that the Obama of today - if he was the Obama of yesterday as well - would be considered by Wright as a betrayer of the black race; or at least someone ignorant of the true injustices done by America and white people.

I was just going to say something like that.

If you go back to the video, and you get to 1:30 -- As Pastor Wright begins railing about how Hillary can't know what it's like to have a cab not pick her up, or to be pulled over because of her skin color, etc...he lets out

I am sick of Negroes who just do not get it!

What is it about Obama that "gets" Wright's message?

Is Obama's...

There's not a black America and white America and Latino America and Asian America; there's the United States of America.

...reconcilable with Wright's America?

[Sue]

The preference for taking him down on what is at bottom a bogus charge rather than taking him on over the issues.

Funny that. If only they practiced what they preached, Bush might not be considered the devil incarnate. His own personal religion, which is very mainstream, would not be villified. And McChimpy Bushitler might never have been born.

[ben]

"The ugliness of the way people like you are reacting to this."

Right, Obama's mentor and pastor yelling "Goddamm America" over and over is not ugly. Saying that Aids was deliberately concocted against black people is not ugly. Saying we brought 9/11 on ourselves is not ugly.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[Elliott]

A toast:

The Chimperor!

[steve]

I find the comment
"black history is glossed over here"

wait a sec... Feb is black history month.
Has been for a long time.
There is a whole COLLECTION of black history month stamps.

maybe the average Joe doesn't pay much attention to it, but to say that it is glossed over is an overstatement - a big one.

[rojuic]

Obama wen to that preacher for 20years. He married his wife there. Took his kids there. He beleives what the prreacher says and they don't like non African Americans. Obama ruined himself getting his State job and money for his wife and house. He doesn't want to be President. He's MLK or whatever, so? These people made money off this stuff. They made political deals. Kennedys did real good. Why would I care? Bill payed everybody a lot. Obama going to make the same deals?????

Obama is gone. He lost. The no feeling he left and everything is okay feeling is there because insanetty. Obama is an impossiblity.

[Fat Man]

I am so glad that Hillbilly didn't quit while she was behind. This is so much fun.

I am going out to the kitchen to make some pop corn. Any of you guys want a beer?

[rk]

I have a feeling this exerpt is about as close as we're going to get at the truth. This is from the middle of an interview with the Chicago Tribune. This is Obama trying to deftly handle this situation, by basically saying that he is a transitional figure (as opposed to Wright and Ferraro) and is one who understands the lens through which Wright is talking, even though he disagrees with his statements. This lens being of course that the US was a racist society who oppressed black men with "fierce intellegence", and that he hopes to push America to a different place. Isn't that call triangulation?

Obama: I do think there is an overlap in the sense that there is a generational shift that is taking place and has constantly taken pace in our society. And Rev. Wright is somebody who came of age in the 60s. And so like a lot of African-American men of fierce intelligence coming up in the '60s he has a lot of the language and the memories and the baggage of those times. And I represent a different generation with just a different set of life experiences, and so see race in just a different set of terms than he does, as does Otis Moss, who is slightly younger than me. And so the question then for me is what's my relationship to that past?

You know, I can completely just disown it and say I don't understand it, but I do understand it. I understand the context with which he developed his views, but also can still reject unequivocally. . .

Tribune: You reject his views, you won't reject the lens. Is that it?

Obama: Yeah, exactly. And this is where the connection comes in. I mean, I do think that Geraldine Ferraro, the lens through which she looks at race, is different. She's 70 years old. She's grown up in different times. The Queens that she grew up in is, I'm sure, a different place than it was then. Just as Chicago is a different place than it was then.

[Soylent Red]

No offense to Obamessiah's sparkly dreaminess, or gooey carmel filling but...

You sound like an "Obamacan" to me. You sound like someone who wants to believe what Obama's putting out. And phrases like "in light of the disastrous last four years" don't exactly sell me on your credentials as "a Republican-leaning Independent."

So let me hip you to a few things...

Obama no more represents a "generation that has turned a page" than the man in the moon. If anything he represents a triumph of form over function, based solely on his skin color and what that represents in identity politics. He is without substance but for his race. If he were a 43-year old white guy from Peoria, running on the same resume, he would have been laughed off the national stage months ago and you would have been deprived of many breathless MySpace moments with your mouthbreathing MTV cronies.

And if you call me a racist, I swear I'll crawl through your screen and, like, take your text messaging privileges away.

As for distinctions between Obamessiah and Hillarity...

Both are liars and con artists. For you to draw a distinction between the two is laughable. Backroom shady graft master vs. the Elmer Gantry of race-based politics. Some difference. Is it better to be hustled by the three-card-Monty dealer or the shell gamer?

Aren't you missing an episode of The Real World while peddling your brand of stupid up here?

[Soylent Red]

Oop!

Got so cranky I forgot to address that to Maggie.

[KSM]

"I attended that church for 20 years, and I did not inhale"

Just how dumb does Obama think we are? Why did Obama give $22,000 in 2006 to a church that preaches a message like what Wright preaches? Why did Obama have Wright come and dedicate his new mansion? Why did Obama have a private prayer session with Wright right before announcining his candidacy? And if Obama never heard these sermons, then why did Obama have peripheral quotes from one of the race baiting sermons in his latest book? Quotes that he says he heard first hand?

The gullibility of some people is amazing.

Obama is either dishonest, lacks judgment or both. Either way he is not fit to become President.

Either way it looks really bad.

[Rick Ballard]

That might be a Red Witch Moby.

Everybody put on their Vizzini hats for a moment - careful about tearing the foil - what's really needed by the "last person of color/gender standing" is 'reaction' on ""right wing"" sites.

More ins and outs than the pleats on an accordion.

[Elliott]

narciso,

I finally got around to reading Le Carre's latest, The Mission Song. It had some interesting plot twists, but overall I'd say it was uninspired, the kind of work you'd expect from a first time spy novelist drawing ideas from what he's read in the newspapers. Also, didn't you find it odd that, having alerted us to the involvement of sinister Americans, he conveniently sidesteps consideration of the resources, intelligence or otherwise, they are prepared to employ?

[ben]

Soylent
Heh...you certainly can dot the i's and cross the t's.....

[Sue]

20 years with Wright. He didn't know. 17 years with Rezko. He didn't know. And he wants us to trust his judgment.

[Soylent Red]

More ins and outs than the pleats on an accordion.

More ins and outs than a night out with Elliot Spitzer...