Leadership That's Working, Or In This Case, Walking

In one corner stands Marty Peretz, with a fog-like defense of Barack Obama:

Of course, while one can assume that there is something in the style of Trinity's Christianity that attracts Obama, no one has even suggested that Obama agrees with any of Wright's controversial words. In fact, one knows from the senator's own words past and present that his love of country is unsurpassed--and unsurpassed in a way that will attract younger people who had lapsed into an unthinking and unrealistic internationalism.

Leaving a church is never a simple transaction. Episcopalians in America (and Anglicans elsewhere) have had all kinds of provocations. A gay bishop in New Hampshire has virtually split the communion. Some are secessionists because of Gene Robinson's elevation. Some want to stay and fight it. Others want to put the oppositionists to the fire. Some on the outs want to put themselves under the discipline of a religiously conservative African diocese. Mostly, they stay and grumble, one way or another.

In the other corner, Howard Dean, DNC Chairman and one-time Netroots fave:

"Was it just over a bike path that you left     the Episcopal Church?" (Even Judy Woodruff seems incredulous, doesn't she?)     Dean: "Yes, as a matter of fact it was.

Where was Obama's leadership or judgment in staying with his church?

Comments

[JB]

"Leaving a church is never a simple transaction."

White this may be true, no evidence shows that for Obama *staying* in the church wasn't.

[BumperStickerist]

It's an inapt analogy - Episcopalians are God's frozen people.

~ ba-dump-bump ~

Also, my guess is that conservative members of the Church in question, left the building in which Gene Robinson preached.

Also, it's reasonable to expect that a candidate who worshiped at Rev. Robinson's services for twenty years, counted Rev. Robinson as a spirtual mentor, and added Rev. Robinson to his team of advisors would have Andrew Sullivan as their Press Secretary.

~ ba dump bump ~

[clarice]

Very good work, TM. I cannot grasp Peretz' blindness on this score. For one thing, he's a staunch Israel supporter and in his heart of hearts he has to know that Obama and those he has looked to as advisers are anything but.
Is this a cry for help--a wish to be back in the swing of the Georgetown cocktail set again aafter his years in the wilderness for his support of Bush?

[Der Hahn]

Dean's conversion on the bike path to Damascus was one of the first things I thought of when people started claiming Obama didn't have to leave Trinity UCC over 'minor disagreements' with Wright.

[DebinNC]

I hope the Trinity/Wright issue doesn't fade before black liberation theology is exposed to voters. Wright unashamedly points to the racist writings of James H. Cone to explain his and Trinity's Afri-centrism, but the press isn't interested in the radical beliefs of Coneheads. Thank God McCain is not a member of Opus Dei, or the media alarm bells would be ringing 24/7 for the next 9 mos..

[Neo]

It's one thing to give pause to changing churches in a rural settings, as the churches are a bit more spread out, but in Chicago .. please.

I've know people how changed churches over just how far away it was, like 2 minutes vs 3 minutes.

I think it all warps around what Christopher Hitchens latched onto .. his "street cred."

Plainly, it was a calculated decision on Obama's part.

[GMax]

The difference?

You dont have to have understanding for bike paths!

[bgates]

[N]o one has even suggested that Obama agrees with any of Wright's controversial words.
Let me remedy that deficiency in the national conversation right now. I think it's more likely that Wright and Obama are both liars, Wright about his hatred for America and Obama about his love, but if only one of them is telling the truth it's Wright.
In fact, one knows from the senator's own words past and present that his love of country is unsurpassed
No, one doesn't.

[DebinNC]

I think Obama found in Wright the strong, affirming black father he never had, that he loves and respects Wright devotedly, and agrees with him on most things, including who the oppressed and their oppressors are.

[Neo]

You know in a not so strange way Barack Obama could be considered a "carpetbagger."

I mean he is an "Afro-American" volunteer, bing the child of a white American moterh and black Kenyan father. He has no real tie to the "Black Experience" than a dark Indian.

The whole "Trinity Church thing" is a primer in the ways of Black Americans for him.

[SteveMG]

Leaving is one thing.

Not expressing disagreement or disapproval - publicly or privately - with the radical and racialist (if not racist) sermons by your Minister is another.

The Scottish writer Thomas Carlyle was once asked by a young man what he (the man) could do to save the world. "Go back to Scotland and make a decent man of yourself", Carlyle replied.

Obama wants to "repair the world". Okay, we'll start in Chicago at one of the larger denomination.

Question: Would Obama recommend the Church's teachings and worldview to others searching for spiritual guidance?

[Jane]

Steve, that's just a great question!

[pagar]

I think Bgates has it exactly right.

"In fact, one knows from the senator's own words past and present that his love of country is unsurpassed"
"No, one doesn't."

I don't see a single thing in Obama that says love of country, and I don't see how anyone else does.

[boris]

No, one doesn't.

Especially since what he says is so contrary to how he lives. It is fair to ask which group is being pandered to, the black culture he has adopted, or the mixed culture he grew up in.

[boris]

He seems to be saying "Mixed culture didn't work for me but YES WE CAN make it work for YOU".

[ben]

"In fact, ONE knows from the senator's own WORDS past and present that his love of country is unsurpassed"

ONE knows, Marty Peretz.....for the rest of us the evidence is rather thin....

Then, of course, we can always contrast Obama's words with McCain's actions..

[Ranger]

In fact, one knows from the senator's own words past and present that his love of country is unsurpassed

Well, Obama does say he loves his country. But the good book says "By their deeds you shall know them" not, by their words. As for deeds, he wont wear a US Flag pin and he won't put his hand over his heart for the national anthem. Those deeds don't speak of love for country to me.

It is very telling that Mr. Peretz didn't even try to tell people that Obama has acted in ways that inform people he loves his country.

[Soylent Red]

I think Obama found in Wright the strong, affirming black father he never had

That's always been how this struck me.

Here's a guy chasing his mother's socialist conception of blackness, in order to be more like a daddy who abandoned them. All because he is too light skinned and was raised "too white".

I don't think we need that kind of Oedipal Petri dish in charge of the country.

And yes SteveMG: that is a great question. I doubt any journalist will ask it though.

[Chris]

"It is fair to ask which group is being pandered to, the black culture he has adopted, or the mixed culture he grew up in."

What about the secular elite chattering class? BHO's definitely made huge inroads pandering to that crowd. Normally, quitting a church, any church, would establish "street cred" with the sec. prog. crowd. Look at Deano.

[clarice]

ditto--soylent--Steve's question is great..
And I agree with the oedipal petri dish analysis..

Just as his mom lived out her life--even marrying two men of color jerks-- to please her cuckoo dad, I think.

[Bob]

Well it's been a long while since I've posted here, but Obama's magic Reverend has finally gone over the line with yesterdays quote of him calling Italians "garlic noses"... not sure this was a good idea. Just look at what Spitzer got in NY, by going after my fellow Italian American Joe Bruno!

[Rick Ballard]

"By their deeds you shall know them""

Yep. And by the deed of walking out, millions upon millions of Americans have indicated their disgust with mainline denominations which embrace the leftist "social gospel" which reaches its nadir with Cone's BLT (no damn mayo) phonyness.

Presbyterians, Methodists, Episcopalians and Lutherans have reduced membership in each of their respective denominations to skeletons of what they were 35 years ago. Beyond that, each of those denominations are currently involved in serious schism with the lefties who hold high denominational office using their control of local church property as a club with which to force a local church into submission to doctrine with which it may deeply disagree.

Once again, the Gramscian "long march through the institutions" was "successful" with the result that the institution is dying.

OTOH - the Gramscian death sentence for the mainlines has aided the growth of new churches, primarily nondenominational, which recognize clearly that the Conehead churches exhibit a remarkable lack of understanding of the book from which they disingenously claim legitimacy.

It is very difficult to judge Obama by his deeds, there being a great paucity of actual deeds upon which to base an opinion. With Clinton, the situation is different. We can examine things that she has actually accomplished beginning with her activities in her first position of any responsibility. The man she worked for at that time judged her unfit to hold any position of public trust in the future. Nothing she has done since 1974 indicates that her superior misjudged her.

[DebinNC]

"It is fair to ask which group is being pandered to, the black culture he has adopted, or the mixed culture he grew up in."

Honolulu County today is 3% black, 25% white, and 45% asian. I don't know how it was when Obama was living off and on there with his racist grandma, but his "differentness" surely must have impacted his life. Does he think of asians as white? Did he resent their success and think of them as oppressors growing up? Obama's official website is nearly silent on his pre-college years. Why?

[GMax]

That 73% what are the other 27% Martians? Or have the Cuban boats been being diverted there do to vigorous Coast Guard patrol off Florida!

[ben]

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/breaking_news/story/472122.html

Another Democratic Governor in trouble....but of course "it's a Republican led DOJ witch hunt".

[DebinNC]

Honolulu today (not Honolulu county):

2% .. black
20&.. white
56%.. asian
7%... native/pacific islander
15%.. mixed race
4%... hispanic

[ben]

make that link

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/breaking_news/story/472122.html

[clarice]

Let me take a stab here, Polynesians?

[ben]

still wrong

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/breaking_news/story/472122.html

[Ranger]

Hmmm... Time for the Rs to start beating the 'culture of corruption' drum.

[clarice]

If the fight continues long enough and is close enough, the Dem nomination may be decided by felons (Cong GJefferson, Mayor Kilpatrick and the Gov of Puerto Rico for starters)

[Pofarmer]

Now, hold on a minute there. Are you sure that Governors a Democrat???? Cause, I mean, really, it doesn't say anywhere in the story????!!!!!

[ben]

"Gov. Aníbal Acevedo Vilá is expected to turn himself in and charged with campaign related crimes: conspiracy to violate election laws, making false statements, wire fraud, program fraud, conspiracy to defraud the IRS and filing a false tax return.

.....He also allegedly sent his children to China using campaign funds and bought $57,000 worth of luxury suits, said FBI agent in charge Luis Fraticelli."

Some like hookers, some like suits....

[ben]

"Are you sure that Governors a Democrat????:

Well you do have to read quite aways down the story to come up with this gem....notice the subtle reference to how the "Democratic Party is popular" in PR

"The governor's supporters claimed the case is another example of a Republican-led Justice Department going after Democrats.

Acevedo, a member of Puerto Rico's Popular Democratic Party, is in the midst of a reelection campaign."

[Rick Ballard]

Ben's link

HTML link primer

[ben]

Thanks Rick, I am definitely "link-challenged"

[Soylent Red]

Or build your links the easy way.

[Jane]

Poor Elliott Spitzer has been linked to new prostitution ring. He's a democrat you know.

(And apparently I'm too dumb for either Soylent or Rick's primers, so the link is under my name.

[Porchlight]

Ha, that's funny - I heard the news about the PR governor on the car radio this morning and I knew he must be a Dem because they didn't say either way. So predictable.

[clarice]

Hit and Reynolds sitting in a tree K*I*S*S*I*N*G
Custer's Last Stand

[Soylent Red]

And apparently I'm too dumb for either Soylent or Rick's primers, so the link is under my name.

You're smarter than me Jane. I can't get the name-as-link thingy to work for me.

[Jane]

You know I think we need a list of all the super delegates who have been indicted:

William Jefferson
William Jefferson Clinton
Elliott Spitzer
Aníbal Acevedo Vilá
Kwame Kilpatrick

That's a start. At some point it might be easier to name the ones that haven't been indicted.

[Jane]

Soylent,

I just copy the link and paste it where it says: "URL" under my email address which comes up when you post a comment. No changes at all. That makes your name go bold, and when you click on it the link comes up.

[clarice]

Spitzer wasn't indicted.Jane.

[Jane]

Oh right. Well give it time.

[DebinNC]

"She personally interfaced with Spitzer a number of times" since 2003..."

The lexicon just broadened.

[glasater]

Obama is going to be interviewed by Maria Bartiromo on CNBC's Closing Bell today revealing his thoughts on the economy or his plan for the economy.

[GMax]

DebinNC

I am not picking on you, its the accountant in me but now we have 104%! From short to too many.

And am I to understand that Asian does not include Pacific Islander such that Asian is probably mostly Japanese in Honolulu.

Maui is very different than Honolulu then. I would say much less Asians, lots more Hawaiian or mixed Hawaiian and something else. Never having been to Honolulu I will have to take this at face value.

[ben]

"I heard the news about the PR governor on the car radio this morning and I knew he must be a Dem because they didn't say either way. So predictable"

Yes, if he was Republican we could have predicted something like:

Another Republican Governor Indicted

Further adding to Republican political woes and joining a long list of Republicans charged with ethical and criminal violations, embattled Republican Governor So and So was charged with 254 felonies. According to Howard Dean, it's another example of the Republican's culture of corruption, so pervasive in the Bush administration. At a press conference to comment on the latest Republican scandal, Nancy Pelosi.....

[Rick Ballard]

Rod Blagojevich is in the net, too. Same status as Spitzer - "awaiting indictment".

The contagiousness of the Culture of Corruption is really unbelievable. Some of these guys were apparently deeply infected before they ever dealt with a Republican. How is that possible?