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March 28, 2008

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bgates

This reminds me of the outrage from some Iraqi cabbie who was quoted by NRO in 2003 saying that the invasion was unnecessary because we had invaded just as Iraq was about to rise up and overthrow Saddam. Likewise, Obama's discomfort had been rising for 20 years, until this spring, when he'd finally had enough - only the pastor had already retired.

To be replaced by somebody who sounds exactly the same. Obama should tire of the new guy around 2035.

clarice

He just wants us to know he's as sparing of the truth and as creative in his recountings as his rival, Hill, is.

ROA

Instapundit just posted a link to a Fox News story about the Reverend’s new $1.6 million dollar, 10,000 sq/ft house in a gated community.

http://instapundit.com/archives2/017057.php

Soylent Red

Obama should tire of the new guy around 2035.

Or when his sermons show up on YouTube. Whichever comes first.

Allahpundit

Wright hasn't apologized. I think what Obama means is that he would have left the church if Wright was still pastor and refused to apologize; if, however, he did apologize, Obama wouldn't have left the church.

Other Tom

Reminds me of fawning sycophant Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., telling us that had JFK lived, he would have got us out of Vietnam instead of allowing it to escalate. This despite the fact that the speech he was on his way to give in Dallas on the day he died was to be a ringing defense of the war.

Tom Maguire

I think what Obama means is that he would have left the church if Wright was still pastor and refused to apologize

Clever and generous; praise Allah.

Of course, Obama learned of Wright's attitude issues (he says) in Feb 2007, and Wright retired a year later. That worked for him?

And it is a very generous reading - the argument is that everything that follows "if he had not retired" is hypothetical, since Wright did in fact retire, but it certainly leaves the misleading impression that Wright did those things.

I am going to take a hard line and go No Sale on that - as a matter of logic (I am pushing it on a Thursday night here), Obama ought to have said "if he had not retired *OR* if he had not cured AIDS" I would have left the church - "OR" requires either clause to be true, "AND" requires both.

Even the "OR" formulation would have been very misleading, but it would have been logically defensible as a bridge that Obama never reached.

Hmm, that said, there is some other logical rule about negating both clauses and reversing "ORs and ANDs", which might apply since Obama is using a negative construction here. Oh, boy... I am going to post this and mull for a while.

Sara

Wright is building a 10,340 sq. ft. $1.6 million home in a gated community for his retirement.

Link

Cecil Turner

Reading through some of the Black Theology stuff, it's pretty interesting. It's metaphorical of course ("white" means oppressor, "black" means oppressed . . . not [horrors] racist), and over-the-top:

Cone's rhetoric sounds strident if one fails to understand his use of the terms black and white. For example: "To be black is to be committed to destroying everything this country loves and adores." Or again, "Black theology will accept only a love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy." In looking back on these earlier books, Cone later admitted that he would no longer use such extreme language, but, nevertheless, his condemnation of racism and oppression was as strong as ever.
But essentially, it's a Marxist-Leninist cant (whatever brand insists equality of result is the goal, and lack of it demonstrates oppression rather than any personal failing) wrapped up in "hate whitey" language.

And I'd note TUCC's Black Value System is still on the website (though less prominent after the Fox interview. This isn't a few cherry-picked statements, it's their core value system . . . and Obama actively sought out this congregation, presumably aware of the creed. Yeah, I'm not buying any, either. And I don't think this one is going away any time soon.

SAM

Boy, the pastor's new home looks pretty swanky. Is it in the parts of the sermons that aren't played that he says that he's just kidding and that he's really in it for the money.

His new Tinley Park home will be a hike from the South Side church. He may be shopping for a new church.

The thing that gets me in all of this is that only after Obama saw the roof beginning to cave did he seize the inititiative and offer his speech in which he redefined the issue as a race issue and dump it at everyone else's doorstep. I'm still scratching my head at how 95% of the press is lauding the speech as a watershed moment in race relations. He pull a classic rhetorical sleight of hand. It's nonsense.

In truth, it's about a foul-mouthed bully who spewed anti-American, anti-Semitic, and now anti-Italian invective. On top of that he spewed three colossol lies: HIV, crack, and atomic bombs (without batting an eye). In other words, it's about a guy who apparently did some exemplary outreach work with his church, but he also did some hateful things in his sermons. With all this shuffling, can he or Obama tell us how they plan to put the hate that he infected his congregants with all these years?

The guy abused his position as a pastor, and Obama--an intelligent, well-educated, and prominent member of the congregation-- didn't have the courage when it mattered to confront this guy. It's an extraordinary act of cowardice, but it was politically essential to keeping the political base.

bgates

You know, everybody is jumping all over this $1.6 million dollar home Wright is moving in to, and asking how coming up with that kind of money squares with his sermons about not pursuing wealth, and that's just not fair.

Do we know for sure Rezko didn't pay for the house?

Thomas Collins

I suspect that B_O is still talking about this for one reason: his campaign's internal polls must be telling him that there is trouble ahead. This is consistent with my polling system, which is speaking with folks who don't listen to NPR.

capitano
But why is Wright apologizing to Obama, who only heard these remarks second hand .... Shouldn't Wright be apologizing to those of us who took offense?
Wright is only apologetic that he has provided ammo for Obama's critics, which explains why Wright has canceled recent public speaking events.

More to the point, will Obama the Uniter explain how the U.S. will ever achieve racial unity with "spiritual leaders" like Rev. Wright poisoning the young minds of each new generation?

Radical Islam brainwashes its youth in hate-filled madrasas; black separatists use the neighborhood church.

clarice

It's an American tragedy--young hustler and street organizer seeks help and gets enmeshed with crazpypants race baiting preacher and a Dem- financing crook with Iraqi ties. He goes on to the US Senate (with their help) and then to a hotly contested race for the presidency only to be forced held back by these ties. There's something Faustian in all this.Only because he's running as something that hs is not--a high minded unifier, rather than a pol--he's a bit stuck . (Now he knows what it's like to be a Republican--held to a higher standard like kosher hotdogs)

Jamesofengland

So, just to get this straight, he'd have disowned Wright (since that has to be a reasonable description of leaving a church in protest against the pastor) if Wright had not changed his ways.

Are we to believe that the reason he didn't disown his grandmother is because she changed her ways, or because she'd already stepped down as his primary carer before the clock ran out on the 20 years of toleration?

Jeff

Obama is a racist con man ...

MDR

Lets all agree that Obama lied through his teeth 6 times before admitting what he couldnt hide, that his 20 year association with wright shows he has no jugement no character no conviction and no courage OR he swallowed all of Wrights nonsense,(which would explain no hand over the heart for the pledge of allegience) and lets all agree that having the man who made those statements baptize your children, marry you and who you call an uncle makes Obama unfit to spend a night at the white house much less live there and then let's move on.

clarice

I think James Lewis has written yet another winner:
Far too many black people don't feel good about themselves, and are constantly looking for answers from somebody else. That quest for the impossible has been turned into an accusation against the invisible but all-powerful white racist establishment. Michelle and Barack Obama were indoctrinated with those toxic beliefs at Princeton and Harvard, so that they are now making more than a million bucks a year, living in a mansion in Chicago while still feeling sorry for themselves. Give me a break. (Michelle Obama's salary increased by almost 200,000 dollars in one year at the University of Chicago. How many people get that kind of raise?)


No doubt the Obamas tell themselves that they are the lucky exceptions, and that they are just identifying with poor blacks, who surely are out there in the hundreds of thousands. But that's just the self-serving generosity of politicians handing out taxpayer money. The Obamas are rich, highly educated, extremely successful professional politicians. They are the darlings of white liberals. Are they anything more than that?


For politicians, voter dissatisfaction is the fuel of personal careers. You can't get anywhere by promising all the answers to people who don't need you. So the first order of business is to find dissatisfied voters, and if they're not there, stir up some dissatisfaction. That's why Obama needed the Rev -- to get him in good with a proletariat, any proletariat, in this case a black one. If Obama had stayed back in Hawaii or Indonesia, he would suddenly have discovered his inner Hawaiian or his authentic Balinese. Now he is "authentically Black," and the Rev guarantees his blackness. That's why Obama can't renounce the Rev. The Rev is his meal ticket.
Make yourself happy, no one else can

hit and run

Who said anything about an apology?

The question is has Wright acknowledged inappropriate and offensive remarks.

Of course he has.


Obama: Reverend Wright, I strenuously object to your controversial comments in today’s sermon.

Wright: Controversial? Damn. They were meant to offend. Did they offend white people?

Obama: They were inappropriate, sir.

Wright: What, they weren’t offensive enough? Sonuva… You don’t think they pissed people off? Well, then yeah, I guess they were inappropriate. I’ll have to try harder.

Good enough for Obama...

clarice

*thwack!!!*

DebinNC

That Rolling Stone article filled in some timeline gaps for me. Obama "worked with" Wright during his 4 "street-level organizer" years between Columbia and Harvard. Does that mean he's been exposed to Wright/Wrightisms longer than the 20 years he's been at Trinity?

This apology business reminded me of the scene in Jerry McGuire where the agent pleads with his angry, controversial client, "Help ME (pause) help YOU" .. be viewed in a better light by the public. The defiant client answers, "I won't dance, Jerry. I won't dance." I think "Barry" has had the same conversation with Wright, and any Wright "dancing" now will cause a black backlash of sorts against Obama.

Porchlight

Why does everything Obama says require an advanced degree in parsing to understand? I swear he's worse than Clinton. This alone should be a warning sign.

Jane

TM,

You have once again outdone yourself. That was a joy to read.

marsh2011

Someone needs to ask Mr Obama the question: "If you are elected President will you welcome Rev Wright into the White House"?

Foo Bar

Allahpundit is correct.

Hmm, that said, there is some other logical rule about negating both clauses and reversing "ORs and ANDs", which might apply since Obama is using a negative construction here. Oh, boy... I am going to post this and mull for a while.

Yes, the rules are known as De Morgan's laws, if you want the formal name, although they really amount to common sense. The relevant rule here is :

not (P or Q) = (not P) and (not Q)

Obama is saying that in order for Obama to stay in the church either Wright had to retire or he had to apologize. The logical equivalent is to state, as Obama did, that if Wright did not retire and, while remaining pastor, did not apologize, then Obama would have left.

Please update your post.

Fen

There's simply no getting around the fact that Obama is a 20-year disciple of a "religion" that encourages racial hatred of whites. Black Liberation Theology is no different than the philosophy that penned "Mein Kampf".

DebinNC

I think we've reached a tipping point where, unless new Wrightisms appear, any more confrontations of Obama about Wright will seem like unfair piling on.

There's probably a treasure trove of outrageous Wright stuff out there waiting to be discovered or being held until the best time to report it ... which imo would be during the fall campaign, not now.

SteveMG

Another outstanding post, Tom.

Perhaps Brian Williams will see it (if he still visits here) and pass it on to Chris Matthews (ahem). This should fix those feelings that shoot up his leg.

Dr. Maguire heals all. You just have to believe.

This is, frankly, nonsense from Obama.

Sue

I'm sorry, but the greatest speaker ever to grace the huddled masses has to have his words explained? And/or. Typical white. And something I noticed recently. He stutters. If he doesn't have a script he stutters. His oratory skills are limited to written text.

centralcal

So, I wake up this morning, cup of coffee in hand, and start see Tom Maguire all around the internet! Way to go Tom!

Obama spent his Easter vacation meditating on how he was gonna get out of this Wright, BLT, mess. From the sounds of things, he shoulda stayed awhile longer on the beach.

And, oh yeah, anyone heard from Michelle O lately? How long do you think her silence is gonna last? Tick, tick, tick . . .

hit and run

So rev Otis is now on the hot seat.

Otis shouldn't get all the benefit of the doubt Obama gave Wright though, right?

Don't think Otis will mind...vile rhetoric packs in the pews apparently and there is no such thing as bad publicity, right...

JB

So Obama would have left the church had Wright stayed and had been unrepentant about his statements?

Is he implying he only heard such statements within a short period of time before Wright retired? Or does he mean that he would have "eventually" left the church (let's say, no later than 20 years or so)?

If first, and factually false, Obama is digging a deeper hole. If second, he seems to possess a talent for insulting people's intelligence.

Mitch from Chicagoboyz

Why did it never occur to Obama to claim he had slept through the sermons? So many of us would have sympathized and forgiven.

Ranger

Kaus has a nice little bit up about how much Obama knew and when:

http://www.slate.com/id/2187358/#folksgreed

Given Rev. Wright's new digs, should he now be considered an "honorary white folk"?

JB

Guess the follow-up question is, "what did you hear, Sen. Obama and when did you hear it?"

ben

...."I believe is the greatness of this country, FOR ALL ITS FLAWS, ..."

I think that pretty much sums it all up, that even in trying to backpedal and obfuscate, Obama can't bring himself to say something good about America without a qualifier.

Cecil Turner

Obama is saying that in order for Obama to stay in the church either Wright had to retire or he had to apologize.

Which doesn't make a lot of sense in a past-tense construction where one of the clauses is known to be false (i.e., Wright hadn't apologized). The correct way of saying that would be:

"Had the reverend not retired, then I wouldn't have felt comfortable staying at the church"

Please update your post.

I think it works pretty well the way it is. Or, if you [TM] must, highlight the superfluous clause

had he not acknowledged that what he had said had deeply offended people and were inappropriate and mischaracterized what I believe is the greatness of this country, for all its flaws
with an explanation that Obama's construction suggests it's meant to be taken as B.S., not fact.

PeterUK

""Black theology will accept only a love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy."

This sounds uncannily like the branch of Christianity called Islam.

boris

Not P AND not Q = not (P OR Q) is all very fine to quibble about but the sense of the statement is that AND works and so does OR. Because P is public info (retired) while Q is described in detail as a real event:

had he not acknowledged that what he had said had deeply offended people and were inappropriate and mischaracterized what I believe is the greatness of this country, for all its flaws

Since the statement indicates both elements are true the logic construct used doesn't matter. Otherwise the long detailed Q is fabrication.

JB

White man's greed, eh?

So it is the first. Obama hit bottom, digs deeper.

Neo

Don't miss this selection via Christopher Hitchens' piece ..

"If Barack gets past the primary," said the Rev. Jeremiah Wright to the New York Times in April of last year, "he might have to publicly distance himself from me. I said it to Barack personally, and he said yeah, that might have to happen."

Pause just for a moment, if only to admire the sheer calculating self-confidence of this. Sen. Obama has long known perfectly well, in other words, that he'd one day have to put some daylight between himself and a bigmouth Farrakhan fan. But he felt he needed his South Side Chicago "base" in the meantime. So he coldly decided to double-cross that bridge when he came to it. And now we are all supposed to marvel at the silky success of the maneuver.

Perhaps Obama didn't hear them, but he certainly knew of them at least a year ago.

Jane

"Had the reverend not retired, then I wouldn't have felt comfortable staying at the church"

Now now this is a tribute to the great one's tolerance. After 19 years he had to put his foot down!

Rick Ballard

"Obama hit bottom, digs deeper."

I have to disagree, JB. BHO isn't anywhere near the bottom. He'll reach that point when Rezko spills in exchange for either a plea deal or a lighter sentence.

Right now we're just getting to the "would you buy a used car from this jerk?" point. Mendacity can be presumed from this point forward. The extent of his meretricious behavior has yet to be revealed. Is there any reason to believe that Tony Rezko is the only crook with hooks under BHO's thin skin?

Cecil Turner

Hey, the real news here is that the AP intro is spot-on with its logic:

WASHINGTON - White House hopeful Barack Obama suggests he would have left his Chicago church had his longtime pastor, whose fiery anti-American comments about U.S. foreign policy and race relations threatened Obama's campaign, not stepped down. [emphasis added]
You can't go further than "suggests" on the first bit, both because Obama's secondary clause (Wright "acknowledg[ing] . . . deeply offended . . . inappropriate . . . mischaracterized") coulda happened (okay, okay, but we're just talkin' theoretical, here); and because Obama didn't explicitly pledge to leave, merely said he'd not have "felt comfortable staying."

So the writer gets it right and [correctly?] strips most of the BS from the statement. Elegant.

Charlie (Colorado)

I think this whole election is giving me a headache.

clarice

Nor is there any reason to believe he told his aides of other bombshells he knows of and just wished away as he did Wright.

GMax

Well I want to call BS on the retirement meme. Too the man is still listed as Senior Pastor, isn't that like going from Grand Kleagle to Immediate Past President? Do you guess he is still drawing a stipend for whatever duties still fall in his lap? Dont you think he might need an income to service debt on a 1.6 mm house mortgage?

DebinNC

In TM's link above -"follow-up blast to Times reporting" - Wright castigates NYT reporter Jodi Kantor:

"When I told you, using one of your own Jewish stories from the Hebrew Bible as to how God asked Moses, “What is that in your hand?,” that Barack was like that when I met him...."

Wright pointed out Kantor's Jewishness by referring to "your own Jewish stories" and "the Hebrew Bible". I know why Farrakhan would emphasize that a perceived enemy was a Jew, but what benign reason would Wright have for doing so?

JB

Rick, Obama is rapidly becoming a character straight out of The Wire television series.

Foo Bar

Which doesn't make a lot of sense in a past-tense construction where one of the clauses is known to be false

Since when is Obama not allowed to explain how he would have acted had a certain set of events (hypothetically and counterfactually) occurred in the past? He's simply saying what he would have done if the following 2 conditions had held simultaneously: Wright does not retire and Wright does not apologize.

It's analogous to Bush saying that had we known what we now know re:WMD he still would have invaded.

It's perfectly reasonable to explain what you would have done if certain events that didn't end up occurring had, in fact, occurred.

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