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March 12, 2008

Comments

Neo

Hey .. get with it.

Only women can talk about abortion.
Only Blacks can use the "N....." word.

Jane

Ferraro is right. It seems to me that's a point of celebration. The barriers are gone. Yippee.

I saw a great exchange on Fox and Friends this AM between the congressman who alleges that al Qaeda will be dancing in the streets if Obama is elected (because of his policy of surrender) and a woman screeching "racism" in response.

Am I the only person who thinks the Messiah and his surrogates are playing these issues like the Islamofacists have been playing the Mohammed cartoons?

Neo

But yes, this primary race has changed the face (no pun intended) of American politics, especially for the Democrats, even more for the Clintons.

I doubt that Bill Clinton will ever be referred to again as the "First Black President" without a bit of derision added.

Better yet, your argument has not been lost on those "brain dead liberals" out there.

Ranger

Well, the Obama campaign is really caught in a tight spot here. Obama needs to argue that a loss in PA doesn't matter, regardless of how bad it is. It looks like they are trying to set up a spin where if they get blown out in PA they can say it was because of racism, and that the party should ignore the results or they will be giving in to racism. The problem with that is, if it sticks, he will have alienated a huge chunk of the Dem vote in PA, and if he loses PA in the general, I don't see how he could win.

Appalled Moderate

It helps to have the full context of Ms. Ferraro's quote:

"I think what America feels about a woman becoming president takes a very secondary place to Obama's campaign - to a kind of campaign that it would be hard for anyone to run against," she said. "For one thing, you have the press, which has been uniquely hard on her. It's been a very sexist media. Some just don't like her. The others have gotten caught up in the Obama campaign.

"If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position," she continued. "And if he was a woman (of any color) he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept."

First, we have the self-pitying whining about sexism. Then we have an un-ironic complaint about Obama being black, and how he's "lucky" who be who he is. Jeepers. Substitute whining about how hard it is to be a white male today, and you could have a statement by the Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan.

And, finally, Hillary has nothing to say, here. She would not be where she is if she hadn't married Bill. The way the Clintonites state that their particular identity politics trumps Obama's identity politics would be funny, if it weren't so icky.


clarice

When you're right, you're right,AM--good analysis.
Yes,Jane..I take it we should vote for the nothingburger guy with the Arab names and odd background in the hope of having Islamic Rage Biy lie down with the lambs (or goats).
Mushheadedness..

clarice

**BOy***

anduril

Boy

MikeS

If Barack Obama received the support of only 1/2 of black voters, he would have no chance, zero, zip of winning the nomination. It is only the overwhelming support of black voters that makes him competitive.

If we compare voter preferences in the U.S. Primaries to voter preferences in Pakistan, it would appear on the surface, that Americans are more racially motivated than Pakistanis.

Porchlight

Sheesh Andrew..."ratcheting X up a notch" was bad enough ten years ago. Groan.

Remind me again why anyone ever thought Sullivan was a good writer?

Neo

Was Sullivan talking about log e or log 10 ?

sbw

"For one thing, you have the press, which has been uniquely hard on her. It's been a very sexist media."

Perhaps the discussion would be better off if words like "sexist" and "racist" were put out to pasture for a while. They do not move the conversation forward and, more likely, are used to cut short any conversation at all. A dialog stopped is considered "won."

If, instead, one said, "It's been a very stupid media." then the door would be open to back up that statement with a compelling, meaningful explanation. If one could.

Neo

"For one thing, you have the press, which has been uniquely hard on her. It's been a very sexist media."

I'd like to hear Gerry's explanation as to what "-ism" is present in the coverage of Bush.

Appalled Moderate

TM:

Obama is not where he is only because he's black. Intelligence, eloquence, a certain steeliness, good luck in his political opponents have all contributed.

The fact that Obama is not white does help him, because whte America really wants a black politician to validate their hope that, for the most part, we are beyond racism. But Obama has other qualities beyond "black" that account for his success.

We all like to believe we are where we are entirely because of our own efforts. But, at some point, all of us have been "lucky", and what we have done with that luck probably accounts for how we have ended up.

Rick Ballard

RW drones and clones are doing a very good job of distraction. It helps that the underlying assertion that BHO can't win without heavy black turnout in states with a high percentage of blacks is absolutely true (he will be thumped handily in PA).

The other facet that's being ignored is that his campaign (the Dean/SEIU campaign) is far better at loading and manipulating a caucus than the RW campaign. The Ascension of RW was blocked by skill and adroit maneuver performed by the prog/black alliance. Ferraro's maladroit description is designed to conceal the utter incompetence of Team Red Witch as much as it is to reveal the fatal flaw in BHO Fever.

RW is a very carppy politician with a low skill team behind her. BHO is the epitome of an empty suit with a good voice.

This ain't a heavyweight bout.

Thankfully.

AM,

You're right when you say that "Obama is not where he is only because he's black." - if he hadn't kissed Ayer's ring, hadn't been an Alinsky Acolyte, hadn't proven himself as a "reliable" prog, hadn't shown himself to be open to manipulation and use by scum like Rezko, he would never have had the opportunity to become another Dukakis, Gore or Kerry.

Other Tom

Well, I see that I, too, am in good company--the "logarithm" bit brought me bolt upright. Suffice it to say that the term is utterly meaningless as used by Sullivan. A logarithm is the power to which a given base number must be raised to reach another number. Then again, just about everything that twit says annoys me.

I saw Ferraro on the tube this morning, citing Shirley Chisolm and Carol Moseley Braun, and saying that it was more difficult being a woman in politics than being black.

These fools having been living by this sword for a long time, and it would be wonderful to see them die by it.

Jane

OT:

Ted Wells is representing Spitzer. I hope he does as well as he did for Libby.

clarice

ogarithm sounds like a real important and scientific word to all the liberal arts majors who constitute Sully's audience,OT.
No one has ever fallen further, faster in my estimation that he did.

clarice

**Logarithom**
No kidding,Jane..

clarice

**logarithim**(DAMN)

Other Tom

The more I see of Hillary's management of her campaign, the more I am reminded of that fellow who worked on her health care task force early in Bubba's first term. Remember the guy who later went public, and said that based on what he'd seen, that woman should never be allowed anywhere near the Oval Office? He went out of his way to establish himself as a hard-core liberal, but said he viewed her as dangerously inept.

Anybody else remember that guy? Can anybody drag up a quote?

clarice

I remember something similar--her boss on the Watergate Committee, said she shouldn't be practicign law and he blamed himself for not filing a bar complaint against her.

Other Tom

Jane, I'm with you on that one. I'm glad to see Wells is still getting high-profile work; I was a little concerned about that. I heard yesterday that Spitzer had retained some woman who was an assistant AG under him.

I'm told that Sptizer's statement is going to say, "Many of you have inquired as to how I could possibly do this. I can only tell you that the woman was really hot, and she would do things my wife wouldn't."

Other Tom

I saw that one too, Clarice--fairly recently.

clarice

One acct has Spitzer using this service 6 times in the last 8 months, at least one occasion having been for more than one day at a time. He was spinning out of control I think--and while those closest to him may not have known everything he was doing, surely they must have caught on that something was going on.

Porchlight

Other Tom, I think you're talking about Brad DeLong:

My two cents' worth--and I think it is the two cents' worth of everybody who worked for the Clinton Administration health care reform effort of 1993-1994--is that Hillary Rodham Clinton needs to be kept very far away from the White House for the rest of her life. Heading up health-care reform was the only major administrative job she has ever tried to do. And she was a complete flop at it. She had neither the grasp of policy substance, the managerial skills, nor the political smarts to do the job she was then given. And she wasn't smart enough to realize that she was in over her head and had to get out of the Health Care Czar role quickly.
Neo

Frankly, I've always thought of racism and sexism more in terms of it's members doing a bad job of handling their narrative.

Project this idea on Muslims for instance.
Currently they are doing a real bad job handling their narrative. I mean, look at the stuff with the Danes, al Qaeda, beheadings, etc. Real bad narrative.

Jane

So he resigned. Nice speech. Now prosecute the hell out of him.

MarkO

I wonder if the fact that the Obama camp and his supports avoid discussing race has anything to do with their fear that this country is still fundamentally racist. The less the race issue is discussed, the more the Obama candidacy is powered by guilt. He seems to be using his race as a protective shield against any inquiry into the matters to which others would be fully questioned.

Until we can discuss the impact of race on all issues, much less who will be president, the country remains decidedly racist and that likely means Obama cannot be elected by secret ballot.

It is disheartening that Obama has defaulted on the opportunity really to run as the transcendent politician he pretends to be. Of course, then he would have to answer the question “What, exactly, have you ever done?”

Other Tom

Great catch, Porchlight--how the hell did you find that?

The invaluable MarkO returns after an inexplicable and over-long absence. I think Obama's whole shtick depends on his not mentioning race--it's the elephant in the room, but it only works for him as long as he never talks about it. And the utterly unscrupulous Bubbas are well aware of that, and have succeeded in making him the black candidate, to his ultimate detriment. And they're deliberately condescending to him with this orchestrated "dream ticket" crap.

I have drafted a statement for Obama to issue without delay:

"Recently people have discussed the possibility of my being a VP candidate. Let me state unequivocally that I will not do it. I'll go further: if I ever appear on a ticket as a VP candidate, I urge all Americans to vote against me, and the presidential candidate, on the ground that I will have broken the solemn promise I am giving you now, and thus would be untrustworthy."

That would sure as hell give the superdelegates something to think about.

Porchlight

Thanks, OT. I remembered DeLong had said that because back in 2003 there was very little overt animus toward Hillary on the lefty blogs. And because he had actually worked on Hillarycare, he had reason to know what she was really like. So it struck me as an important comment.

I wonder if DeLong thinks Obama can handle the task that Hillary couldn't. I can't quite bring myself to google that one.

Porchlight

And I see our own Patrick R. Sullivan made some great comments on that DeLong post. Excellent work.

Jim Miller

Maureen Dowd liked that Sullivan logarithm line so much that she quoted it in a column. By my count, that means that at least four journalists, two at the Atlantic and two at the NYT, didn't spot that amazing mistake.

By the way, note that both Sullivan and Dowd think that Obama may be middle-named; in fact, they think that's a great idea -- at least in the rest of the world.

Paul

Any time anybody does anything that in any way pulls [the Obama] campaign down and says let's address reality and the problems we're facing in this world, you're accused of being racist, so you have to shut up," Ferraro said.

--------------------------

Yeah, we know that Hillary hasn't ever played the "sexism card" in the same manner, don't we?

GMax

he would never have had the opportunity to become another Dukakis, Gore or Kerry.

Well if you meant "loser" you have picked three good examples. But I actually think there is a distinction here. He has the opportunity to be an extraordinary loser, in the mold of Dukakis and McGovern. With the likely street protests and credential committee fights, the focus on McGovern and the resemblance to the junior Senator from Illinois will become clearer. But in McGovern's defense, at least he had a long record in the legislature. Is Vermont the lone hold out this time?

MarkD

Dems in general are not competitive if they don't get a large majority of the black vote. I love this identity politics train wreck.

Bring on the (brokered) convention.

clarice

I'm glad to see MarkO,too,OT.

Larry

In Geraldine's (Can't say that name without hearing Flip Wilson say, "What you see is what you get.") defense, she has said and did say in the Fox interview that she'd never have been on the '84 ticket if her name was Gerard Ferraro.

Anon

Well the guy has been one lucky SOB hasn't he/

The Republicans ran Keyes against him and how did that happen?

Well the usual chain of that leads eventually to the CF-

First Fitzgerald retired then Ryan ran- a guy that really gave up a high paying job to become a Chicago high school teacher- but then some television station sued to open up his divorce records and la viola his Hollywood actress wife was upset when he almost made her do something-which she said during divorce proceedings to get custody of the kid. [ who happens to dress like this-link ] Then they couldn't get some other guy to run,IIRC, whatever and we ended up with Keyes with hardly any ties to Illinios running against Obama.

pagar

"But Obama has other qualities beyond "black" that account for his success."

Like John Kerry was going to reveal his plan to defend the US after his election, I suppose we can expect to learn what these "other qualities" are if/after he is elected, because I don't think there is any sign of them now.

Neo

Obama is Black, Who Knew ?

MikeS

"But Obama has other qualities beyond "black" that account for his success."

I'm sure that is true, but what accounts for his overwhelming success with black voters?
Without that he would not be competitive against Hillary.

boris

It seems possible that if BHO were of strictly european descent with the same qualifications, the same voice, the same positions and the same look (Mediterranean olive complexion) that he could be in the same place in the presidential campaign. Especially given the same wife, Michelle.

Possible. Not likely but possible.

MarkD

One more thing, If Obama had been white, I seriously doubt that the mainstream media would have been motivated to torpedo (Obama's competetion for the Senate seat) Jack Ryan's candidacy by digging up the details of his messy divorce with Jeri (7 of 9) Ryan, paving the way for all the glowing ink around the landslide victory of the first black Senator.

Ellen

Actually, I think race relations in America are proceeding into the endgame by default.

Whenever a distinguishable group has to change its name and/or adjective every five years, you absolutely KNOW they are whatever their previous name was accused of. Changing the branding doesn't work unless you change the soap inside the wrapper.

Our melanin-enhanced co-citizens have used up all the possible words they can use to describe themselves. At this point, they and everybody else will have to start paying attention to substance instead of words. That's about the time the dialogue begins to make sense.

We all really DO need to have this conversation, and we're lucky to be having it about a decent chap like Barack Obama rather than Jesse Jackson, or - God forbid - Al Sharpton.

Barry

"Well, I am highly confident that, if he had two white parents, he would not have been the first black head of the Harvard Law Review, although given his obvious talent and brains he might well have been yet another quickly-forgotten-if-ever-known white head"

So wait... You're saying that, no matter what the color of his skin, the man is an insignificant pimple?

I like it. Perhaps an anonymous e-mail to Ms. Ferraro would be in order! I'd love to hear her ask: "a black head or a white head, what's the difference, really?"

And whatever I think of Geraldine Ferraro (actually, I hadn't thought of her at ALL in a long, long time), I actually find it refreshing (shocking, maybe?) to hear a Democrat whose speech on these matters, wise or not, doesn't sound like it's been edited five times by the PC police!

dh

Why isn't Obama better compared to Bill Clinton in 1992 - also a late 40's successful and charismatic top law school grad, with some holes in the resume. While their experience is considerably different, being the Arkansas governor isn't exactly the big leagues. Obama plays in a bigger media environment, is considerably less smarmy, appears more genuine, though the length and type of experience is quite different.

We probably can't ever get past race, but the comparison to John Edwards isn't fair.

Ralph Phelan

Geraldine Ferraro states the obvious - being black is helping Barack - and is getting pummeled for it.

The effect on the general elctorate of watching someone get pummelled by the left for telling the truth (yet again) is going to be good for Clinton, great for McCain, and terrible for Obama.

Pug

If Barack Obama received the support of only 1/2 of black voters, he would have no chance, zero, zip of winning the nomination. It is only the overwhelming support of black voters that makes him competitive.

Iowa? Wisconsin? Minnesota? Vermont? Maine? Washington? Kansas? Utah? Wyoming?

It's easier if you just overlook the facts, isn't it?

boris

Well to be fair those states by themselves would not keep him competitive.

Rickter

It's quite comforting to see these two Marxist/Stalinist, idealogs and their surrogates twist themselves into pretzels, trying to fend off the very acussations thy've hurled so often againist us on the Right, for the past 35 years!

willis

"The fact that Obama is not white does help him, because whte America really wants a black politician to validate their hope that, for the most part, we are beyond racism"

Close AM, but I don't think we whities want to validate our hope that we are beyond racism. Each of us knows if we are beyond racism. Racists don't hope to become non-racists and non-racists don't have to wonder whether or not they are non-racists. What we really hope a black president will accomplish is to be able to ask: Ok, happy now? Can we stop begining every sentence with an assumption that every difference is motivated by race?

clarice

Ferraro has just resigned from the Clinton campaign.

MarkO

OT: I have missed chatting here. It is good to read all but especially Other Tom and Clarice for whom I developed such affection during the "perjury" fiasco.

glasater

OT

One more link that refers to how the Spitzer was brought down by the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network.

clarice

Thank you, MarkO. As we said, we've missed you, too.

GMax

Hot Air has links to a story interviewing the mother of "Kristen" and photos. 22 years old. She could be his daughter...

george

The only reason Hillary is doing well in this election, and threatening Obama, is because she is a woman.

george

If Hillary were a black man, she wouldn't be in this position.

Lindak

Isn't it interesting that the racial debate, tirade, mutual accusation fest is occuring in the party of multiculturalism and divrsity? Rhetorical question. The dems have become the party of competing ethnic and sexual victimhoods. What trumps? Being black, female, gay, hispanic? The Ferraro kerfuffle is simply blacks defending their victimhood turf against the feminists. Go Gerry! She knows she wouldn't have been nominated for VP unless she was a woman. I think she has great creds to speak on this point.

Why doesn't Obot stand up and be a man and swat RW of vicarious experience down.

tp

Another 6 weeks of a "rock, paper, scissors" steel cage death match between these two titans has me giddy.

PaulL

We can hope that Obama keeps on playing the race card daily, so that everyone in the country is sick to death of hearing about it as the election nears.

Are we allowed to make fun of his Dumbo ears, since we did Perot, and Perot was white as far as we know.

Ser

Obama is genocide? Remember Bill's sueing foot soldiers? Geniecide(ya, genetics) can't be anything not black(ya, African tribal Church)?

Remember Deep Space Nine? Cisco. See the future, the future it is, it's the Watchtower or just hallucinations?

African Americans are going to vote for him because he is and if you couldn't figure that out with Oprah your not that smart. Power was neat and Ferraro was neater. Who's next?

Ennis

I do not care if the race warriors call me a racist or not I am doing what Marin Luther King said in his famous "I Have a Dream" speech.

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

I will not vote for Barak Obama because of the content of his character, his statements and his policies. I don't give a damn what color he is.

His supporters who automatically toss the race card at any and all who do not support Obama is not a way to win those people over, either.

Sue

Obama is half white. Leave his half black alone and go after his half white. That is always acceptable, targeting a white man.

vnjagvet

Sweet, Sue.

gajim

"What does he offer? First and foremost: his face."

Oh, please! I see that face and am reminded that he's a grown up Urkel.

Cecil Turner

If Hillary were a black man, she wouldn't be in this position.

Egad, I'd hope not. (Considering the vast majority of her experience is being Bill's spouse.) OTOH . . . er, never mind. (Nasty visual.)

I feel like I'm watching a rerun of the old Bobcat Goldthwaite joke (where the doc asks if he'd like to cut his newborn's umbilical): "Isn't there someone more qualified?" AFAICT, the entire Dem field has a grand total of zero executive experience and zero military experience. (The standout is Hillary, who at least has some background handling ceremonial functions.) With such depth to choose from, who can get excited about gender and race?

Bill in AZ

Any time the Obama race nonsense comes up, just for perspective switch the race around and imagine what it would look like if a black Republican were the front runner on the republican ticket - someone who talks and thinks like Thompson, or... er... well, like Michael Steele, for example. Can you imagine the absolute vitriol, the Uncle Tom references, etc, from the "race enlightened" party.

I don't know how it would be in other parts of the country - I suspect there are areas where it would make a difference to Republicans that he was black - but most conservatives I know wouldn't give it a second thought to pull his lever if he was a true conservative... unlike our current front runner where I do have second, third, oh hell, logarithmic? infinity thoughts.

Ann

Bill in Az:

I have been thinking the same thing for awhile. If Obama or Hillary were republicans they would of been severely vetted and flogged by our media by now.

Their experience, their religion, their spouses, their families, their children, their friends would have been fully examined.

Which makes it even more delightful that they are tearing each up over their own rules. They always tell us that we have to promote diversity regardless of the persons qualifications.

This is like a Presidential Affirmative Action Campaign. Can't wait to see the outcome.

Pofarmer

"Are we allowed to make fun of his Dumbo ears"

As long as your 6 year old daughter doesn't say he looks like curious George.

On second thought, yeah, I imagine the ears are out of play. And Legislation??? Can't go there. Policy??? Better to not get to specific on that.

Pofarmer

Oh, and yes, I'm still dreaming this spitzer mess gets linked back to the Clinton Machine. How much money has she given him again?

bgates

If Hillary were a black man, she wouldn't be in this position.
True. Bill would never have been elected Governor of Arkansas much less President if he had been married to a black guy.
"Are we allowed to make fun of his Dumbo ears"

As long as your 6 year old daughter doesn't say he looks like curious George.
Absolutely. How incredibly classless and insulting would it be to compare a man - a candidate for President, no less - to some kind of monkey. I hope I never see that happen.

PaulL

****Oh, and yes, I'm still dreaming this spitzer mess gets linked back to the Clinton Machine. How much money has she given him again?****

Maybe the exact same funds that Mrs. Clinton gave to Spitzer to buy his vote, maybe the exact same funds were used to pay for prostitutes.

original anonymous x

Obama may be half white, but his wife isn't. Anyway, people vote by race and that's a fact.

We're all African from Ethiopia. Genetics show we come from eve there. There is one exception and that is Group X. No one knows how they got to America and it could be they were put on earth by the space aliens like when Egypt disappeared or something. X used to mean experimental, like experimenting humans.

The Starr Foundation, American International, Holbrooke, genetics, the sampling and the space aliens all make more sense now........................

X is the only way to our one REAL SPACE ANCESTRY and it's okay they tortured the guy to death.


Jane

Ooookay then.

royf

Hmm! looks like one of the democrats "Super Delegates" has graced us with his wisdom.......

jimmyk

I remember something similar--her boss on the Watergate Committee, said she shouldn't be practicign law and he blamed himself for not filing a bar complaint against her.

I think this is what you are remembering. Pretty damning.

PeterUK

original anonymous,
Don't worry they have x safe in a special institution on Washington.

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