Maybe J Rock Read About Those Laser Guided Bombs In An Intel Report

Not for the first time Jay Rockefeller manages to be part of an embarrassing story for the Obama campaign.  Currently Rockefeller is denouncing McCain as a callous killer [and has apologized]:

In the Charleston Gazette Sunday, Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-WV, who has endorsed Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., said that Sen. John McCain "has a temper" and, according to the story, "believes McCain has become insensitive to many human issues.

"McCain was a fighter pilot, who dropped laser-guided missiles from 35,000 feet. He was long gone when they hit. What happened when they [the missiles] get to the ground? He doesn't know. You have to care about the lives of people. McCain never gets into those issues."

Astonishing.  And as the Ace notes:

He also accuses J-Mac of using laser-guided bombs back in 'Nam, which, if true, would mean that John McCain is in fact industrialist genius Tony Stark.

Rockefeller was on stage when Obama got hazy and confused everyone as to who had read the pre-war National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq and voted against the war; we apologized at the time for misunderstanding Barack.

So, the Dem Chair of the Senate Intel Committee thinks we had laser guided weapons in VietNam.  I wonder what else he has gleaned from various intel reports over the years.

Bonus derision - the Clintoinistas were quite proud of their air war over Serbia, which resulted in no US casualties.  Critics, possibly including Rockefeller (as if), noted at the time that the high altitude US bombing minimized US casualties but also limited our effectiveness, thereby increasing casualties among those we were claiming to protect.  Oh, well, now high altitude bombing intended to minimize US casualties is bad.  No worries - if we elect Barack, high altitude bombing will be audacious genius, again.

These Dems are going to talk themselves right out of the White House.

MORE:  Let's run Rockefeller's apology:

U.S. Senator Jay Rockefeller (D-WV) was forced to apologize Tuesday to Republican Presidential candidate John McCain for comments he made about McCain’s military service.

“I have profound respect and appreciate his dedication to our country, and I regret my very poor choice of words,” Rockefeller said in a prepared statement.

...

Later, Obama’s office issued a statement saying Obama “does not agree with what Senator Rockefeller said.”

It was only a short time after that Rockefeller’s statement of apology was issued. “I have a deep respect for John McCain’s honorable and noble service to our country,” Rockefeller said in the statement. “I made an inaccurate and wrong analogy and I have extended by sincere apology to him.”

 

Comments

[TexasToast]

So, the Dem Chair of the Senate Intel Committee thinks we had laser guided weapons in VietNam. I wonder what else he has gleaned from various intel reports over the years.

Probably something really silly like the TelCos need retroactive immunity - or something even sillier like Saddam had WMDs.

[clarice]

From your mouth to God's ears on that last bit,TM.

You don't suppose he actually won the Senate seat by paying off every single voter in W Va do you? (I do.)

[MayBee]

So Obama's spokesperson didn't reuse the "Obama voters don't know who Sen Rockefeller is anyway" excuse? That was a good one.

[Danube of Thought]

I sure as hell wish we'd had them.

[Danube of Thought]

Well, here's one thing Rockefeller had learned from somewhere by October 10, 2002:

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years. We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."

But I guess Bush must have tricked him.

[Topsecretk9]

Maybee

heh.

[boris]

silly like the TelCos need retroactive immunity ...

Been taking logic lessons from cleo apparently. What's silly is that they do need it or they get sued, silly as in outrageous and craven.

[USMCgeezer]

"Thy Will Be Done" quotes Elie Weisel calling Rockerfeller activities in South America a genocide on the local indians. If memory serves helicopters were used to get up close so as to thin out the residents.

[Matthew]

Rockefeller is a dolt. Fighter jets don't normally carry laser guided bombs, now or in 60's! That's what bombers do. Fighter jets engage other jets in the air. Perhaps with air-to-air missiles, etc.

[section9]

Actually, MacNamara was going to arm the A-4 Skyhawk with Photon Torpedoes because he was a big Star Trek fan.

Jesus, is Harry Reid an example of galactic stupidity, or what?

If this were Starship Troopers, Reid would be horsewhipped in front of his regiment for violating Federal Service Stupidity Laws.

[Sue]

Have y'all seen this picture?

[bgates]

TT - do you think Saddam never had WMD, that he had them but disposed of them according to the terms of the 1991 cease fire, or that he had them and disposed of them improperly?

If the latter, do you think the inspectors' absence of evidence is convincing evidence of absence, or do you think we should have taken Saddam at his word, since he is clearly as trustworthy as a typical Democratic politician?

[Sligobob]

Well, in truth the laser guided bomb was introduced into the Vietnam theatre, but not until 1968, a year after McCain's downing over North Vietnam. Big us in the early 70s. It's all in wiki. Rockefeller remains a reliable idiot, noentheless.

[bgates]

Geraghty is saying McCain was at 4,500 feet when he was shot down. That's low-altitude bombing, which increases American casualties in an effort to increase accuracy and (as a side benefit) decrease civilian casualties.

What was Rockefeller's stance on lobbing cruise missiles into Sudan, Afghanistan, and Iraq?

[nick k]

Tom--

love your stuff. actually USAF -- not Navy Air-- did have TV guided smart bombs several years after John Sidney ejected into that Hanoi lake. John Sidney's 1950s vintage A-4 only had 'dumb' 1,000 lbs iron bombs that had been manufactured in the 1940s. He had to 'glide bomb' the Hanoi power plant -- that was far from civilian targets on an island in the lake -- the plant was ringed with 1960s vintage Soviet made SAM - 2s and radar guided anti-air artillary ("AAA"). The mission was made on the authority of CINC Lyndon Baines Johnson (D-Texas)The AAA won and John Sidney's A-4 Skyhawk lost. In prison, the NVA thugs broke John Sidney's body in order to force a 'confession'of air piracy. Torture works. They then emotionally tortured him by offering early release, in recognition of his father being CINC of all NavAir in the Pacific. John Sidney refused unless every prisoner held longer than he went as well. The NVA declined and beat him and broke his body again. Wow, Jay D is right, John Sidney is a war criminal -- an "Air Pirate" according to Ho Chi Minh and Jane Fonda and his own confession. We need more 'Men' like Jay D. You are a bastard Mr. Rockefeller

[Mike Huggins]

Oh, are we talking about Jay "I took a trip by myself in January of 2002 to Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Syria, and I told each of the heads of state that it was my view that George Bush had already made up his mind to go to war against Iraq — that that was a predetermined set course which had taken shape shortly after 9/11" Rockefeller? "What a maroon."

[nick k]

Apologies--

Navy did use Walleye TV bombs in Vietnam, including on the aforementiaoned Hanoi power plant. Always trust Wikipedia military stuff rather than own memory.

PS: Jay Rockefeller is still a bastard.

[DebinNC]

Is there a strategy at work in the continuing Obama surrogates' McCain insults? Is the goal to get Sen. Hothead to overreact and show his famous temper, while Mr. Cool looks on in bemused amazement?

Obama says that what he lacks in experience is made up for in his superior judgment. I think they want to drive McCain to show bad judgment, which his demand that Obama repudiate Rockefeller does imo.

[GMax]

Democrats dont play well with others. Heck we can see that in the primary. Even worse with a Republican under discussion.

Maybe the Senate dining will need a bunch of timeout tables with little sign above them that read:

"Do not disturb, dining alone today."

[Danube of Thought]

A few points, some of which I believe others have also made:

--McCain's A-4 was an attack aircraft (bomber), not a fighter.

--Fighters do, indeed, carry bombs when the mission calls for it, as they frequently do. The F-4's in Vietnam flew countless thousands of bombing missions. The F-18's and F-15's have been flying them for years, including in the Gulf War and Iraq.

--Without checking Wiki, I do recall pretty clearly that the first "smart" bombs got introduced during the Vietnam war, but unfortunately it was rather late in the game. The ones I remember were the TV guided ones; I don't recall laser-guided ones back then. The difference between smart and dumb was huge: many guys got killed or captured trying to bring down those strategic bridges with iron bombs, flying in the face of almost unbelievable air defense. (I believe, for example, that Berlin was defended by 700 anti-aircraft guns; Hanoi was defended by 2,200.)

The general feeling was that if you were above 15,000 feet you were safe from the AA but terribly exposed to SAM's; if you came down to avoid the SAM's you were at the mercy of the AA. For tactical bombing missions you had no choice, you had to get low if you wanted to deliver on target.

[Sue]

Can you imagine if someone had said this about our pilots during WWII? They would have been hung for treason or at the very least run out of the country club.

[MarkO]

Would someone here make me a list of the people born with good judgment? It's not like having a good arm or perfect pitch. Help me out. I'm all alone.

[bgates]

Deb, I don't know how McCain could "overreact" to somebody telling him he's a cowardly war criminal, short of a Preston Brooks impression.

[Jane]

I don't think anyone should demand anyone apologize for anything. Let people talk. Let them say what they want, and let the people decide. Nothing wrong with a few more people realizing Jay Rockefeller is an idiot - at least in my book.

[JB]

New SurveyUSA PA poll:

http://www.surveyusa.com/

[centralcal]

I agree Jane, about the apology nonsense.

Rockefeller is worse than an idiot.

[DebinNC]

"I don't think anyone should demand anyone apologize for anything. Let people talk. Let them say what they want, and let the people decide."

Exactly.

[Thomas Jackson]

So anyone who has ever fought for his country doesn't care about people. I think Rockefeller is a prime exampleof someone who doesn't give a damn about anyone or anything other than his sorry self.

How can the people of West Virginia put up with this dolt?

[clarice]

Whenever I feel that our "elites" are loathsome traitors, I am reminded that they were at the outset of WWII, too.

[Anon]

Uh the same way they put up with Byrd...

I think it involves a lot of moonshine, and grease.

Gawd-the hatred the Democrats have for the military-it simply oozes outta their pores, it escapes with every other utterance.

[DebinNC]

I'm glad to see McCain has surrogates too:

"The McCain campaign responded through Lt. Col. Orson Swindle, USMC (retired) who served in Vietnam and spent 20 months in a Hanoi prison with McCain. “We know what flying through hell is like and the senator doesn’t,” Swindle told Metronews. “He probably never heard a shot fired in anger unless it was in the backwoods of West Virginia hunting or something like that.”

“He (Rockefeller) doesn’t know a damn thing about the military,” Swindle added.

[Neo]

So, the Dem Chair of the Senate Intel Committee thinks we had laser guided weapons in VietNam.

We did have laser guided bombs in VietNam .. a year after John McCain was shot down.

[DebinNC]

The only military installation located in landlocked West Virginia is a Coast Guard Operations Systems Center.

[michaelt]

The Robert Byrd Coast Guard Operations Systems Center?

[clarice]

I do so hope those words are braodcast over and over through every holler in W Va. It's time they got unbought.

[Barry Dauphin]

So, the Dem Chair of the Senate Intel Committee thinks we had laser guided weapons in VietNam.

Maybe even worse is that the Senate Intel Chair thinks our pilots don't care about "human issues". Maybe he would approve of our pilots jumping out of the planes with knives and pepper spray instead.

[mkultra]

Classic Rovian tactic!

[GMax]

Same ninnies who did not have any outrage and consider it an act of war for Saddam, in violation of the cessation of hostilities agreement , to be firing at our pilots patrolling the northern and southern no fly zones. While their aim was not very good, a lucky shot could have brought down an aircraft. We should have sent a strong message that such nonsense was not to be tolerated, and it would have stopped. But with folks like Baghdad Jim on the Saddam payroll, he was pretty sure he could get away with it.

[Harry Eagar]

Rockefeller doesn't know what he's talking about, but you miss the point -- McCain did drop bombs on people without aiming.

[SteveMG]

Let's see: if you didn't serve in a war yet support our efforts in Iraq, you're a chickenhawk.

If you did serve in a war and supporter the Iraq mission, you're a callous cold-hearted monster.

If you support the Iraq mission but your children don't serve, you're a moral coward with no credibility (your kids too).

If you support the Iraq mission but your children do serve, you're a war monger with no credibility (your kids? maybe, depends on the poll numbers I guess).

There's a pattern here. Let's try to find it.

[NevadaCowboy]

Wasn't Rockefeller on the cover of LIFE magazine back in the sixties? Something about being the most-decorated veteran of the Peace Corps. This guy doesn't know anything about the military, so why is he one of the Intelligence Committee's chairmen? The Dems could have selected any number of other Senators with more intelligence than this clown.

[AST]

Obama seems to repeating this a lot about people who support him. It's getting hard to believe him.

Rockefeller should resign for his anti-military stance and for inexcusable ignorance in a member of the Senate.

[section9]

The Paul Doumier bridge stood without much harm until 1972, when the first flight of laser guided smart bombs brought it down.

The fall of the Paul Doumier bridge heralded the decline of the impenetrability of SAM blankets. The SAM would get one more moment of glory the following year, in the Sinai in the opening week of the Yom Kippur War, but once aircraft could make standoff missile attacks against targets and SAM emplacements, the balance shifted decisively in favor of tactical air.

The development of Stealth Technology merely accentuated the advantage to the attacker.

All this was too late for John McCain and Orson Swindle. Something a pompous windbag like Jay Rockefeller should have considered when he decided to do his Ed Schultz imitation.

The Obama campaign becomes more vicious everyday. This will do them no good in the long run.

[Jane]

Rockefeller doesn't know what he's talking about, but you miss the point -- McCain did drop bombs on people without aiming.

It was a war Harry.

[PeterUK]

Since Syria is a rat run for fighters and arms which have fueled the internal Iraq conflict,did Rockefeller give Syria information which cost Coalition lives? Specifically American lives? There is a name for this.

[narciso]

Well his uncle?? David Rockefeller was an intelligence officer in North Africa (wait
the French didn't bomb us at Pearl Harbor)
and he gave the data on which the targeting
came by. And considering Kasserine Pass, among other, it wasn't very good. Another
associate of Obama, William Ayers didn't stick around for the bomb he was about to place in Ft. Dix;in fact Diana Oughton, screwed up and set the bomb off herself.
Blowing up that Greenwhich Village appt
and Katherine Boudin, walked away in the
confusion. Taking it further, International Petroleum that discovered oil in Kirkuk in 1927; was a subsidiary of Standard Oil, Jay's great grand father's company. And we'll forget ARAMCO's role in building up the Al Sauds; which in turn empowered the
Bin Ladens. He graduates from Princeton in '62, and he ends up in VISTA; knowing that Vietnam another Rockefeller project
was going to start up any minute now. Did
we forget Chase Manhattan's business dealings with Germany into 1942. I know you can only legitimately tar the Bushes with
such activity because they're Republican and tacitly evil. of course. Let's not forget Barry Dunham's other associate Rashid
Khalidi who has encouraged Palestinian attacks; and even in a certain sense, attacks on U.S. personnel.

[DF]

Human issues. I think he's saying that because he's been tortured that he doesn't understand or care about human issues other than, like, ceasing everything in existence cause most humans are a disease and possessed by Lucifer or something,like, they should be sent to Calvary cause they're luciferian.

It's not fair to treat him like this, it's just wrong.

I think the shift from human targets to, like, real expensive buildings and shit in Iran is a good idea. Like, you know, bombing us just cost you 5 trillion dollars and shit.

I'd wonder how much Plame Rocker Feller bought.

[clarice]

IIRC Rockefeller headed the Sen Dem Policy Conference in May 2003 where Munchuasen was the chief speaker and where he and Plame were introduced to Kristof; Jay is widely believed to have been the source of a number of NYT security leaks, esp the NSA "wiretap" story; AND he was behind the plot to politicize the Senate Intel Committee which beforehand had always been operating (responsibly) as a bipartisan operation.

[Da Coyote]

Ah, such comments coming Jay R/ to whom the operation of a light bulb constitute graduate electrical engineering. It makes me proud to know that he is a military expert. It's a shame he didn't join, so that he could have been (secretly) kicked out as was Kerry

[DF]

The military intelligence job was interesting, but he didn't do his work in Latin America, where the best agents are made or poisoned out of the business.

The NSA leaks were probably Plame doing her domestic political group intelligence work. The intell committee probably had alot to do with the funding and planning of the Afghanistan war.

I have to finish my S African wine and brie. Bye.