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July 01, 2008

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kim

Of course. Wouldn't you be?
==================

Appalled

Our host here sounds bitter. TM, Are you clinging to your religion and your guns? I want to make sure I'm not at risk for thunderbolts or machine gun fire...

Jane

I do think Obama is afraid. He doesn't know what he doesn't know. That speaks to his vapid experience going in. The best part of the 40's decade for me was that I finally knew what I didn't know. And on the heels of that comes confidence.

Obama is confident about his ability to use a teleprompter and make people swoon. Not much else from what I can see.

kim

Have the Democrats miscarried a promising candidate, or is he clinging to life in the incubator?
==========================

kim

I say clinging to life; they seem to be working on a birth certificate.
=============================

kim

The Breacher Bubble and Raffle Church. Aren't you Appalled?
=========================

BobS

I know I live in McCain Land - Bud Day's hometown - but I still see Obama's popularity shrinking. Not Growing.

Polls still have not adjusted to changes in the telephone habits of Americans. I for one have gone cellular. I took informer surveys of my students during the school year and it appeared that 1 in 4 families no longer used land line phones.

Despite that clear favoritism Obama enjoys in the media, his rush to the center for the election populism is fact checked in a far more effective manner than ever before. A growing number of Americans no longer depend just on sound bites and headlines. The numbers show sharp decline in folks who watch nightly news and read newspapers.

bad

The fear explains his baseless warnings of "they" coming after him to call him black.

It also explains why he carries the gun when "they" bring a knife to the fight.

Or maybe the fear is simply because he is a battered husband.

centralcal

bad, Townhall has a piece by D'nesh Desouza (or however you spell his name) pretty much saying what you just did. Sorry, I am off to work and don't have a link, but you can also find his article at Lucianne - just scroll down.

I got a laugh out of comparing MO to James Brown instead of Jacquie Kennedy (at Lucianne). Kinda works for me!

eightnine2718281828mu5e

Seems there are counter arguments to the notion that war heros make good presidents.


link

---

He was one of the most highly decorated United States Navy pilots in the Vietnam War, receiving the Navy Cross once, the Silver Star twice, the Air Medal 15 times, and the Purple Heart for wounds he received under enemy fire.

--snip--

During his service, Cunningham and his Radar Intercept Officer "Irish" Driscoll became the only Navy aces in the Vietnam War

--snip--

On November 28, 2005, Cunningham pled guilty to tax evasion, conspiracy to commit bribery, mail fraud, and wire fraud in federal court in San Diego.

--snip--

Cunningham's attorney, Mark Holscher, later said that the government's evidence was so overwhelming that he had no choice but to recommend a guilty plea.[33] With the plea bargain, Cunningham faced a maximum of 10 years; had he fought the charges, Cunningham risked spending the rest of his life in prison.
---

Semanticleo

Maguire;

It's Show Biz, and McCain (with his Tutor, GWB) loves him those Kleig Lights. The gossamer wings and fantasy atmosphere has
you folks dreaming of fluffy pork pies like
the NEW GI Bill.

Although they had no role in baking that pastry, the flaky remnants of it's crust festoon their gravy stained vests.

It's a genuine reality show. Call it
"American Idolatry"

eightnine2718281828mu5e

Both Bob Dole and BushI lost to Clinton; seems the public prefers youth and energy to combat experience.

Pofarmer

Bush I lost to Perot.

eightnine2718281828mu5e

McCain 2008:
Corked Wine for a Change

Chris

Jane,
"He doesn't know what he doesn't know."
Dead on. That's not the scary part, however. Neither he nor his following seem to care much. If it happened before they were born, it doesn't matter much. If something they don't know falls under the military category, it's just filed under the general purpose heading of "evil" and therefore no further thought is required.

89,
You're here early. Working a double shift for the messiah today? Cunningham? Did you think we were unaware? Relevance? Oh, yea. He was a corrupt Republican pol. Fortunately for you, we don't have any examples to point to on the left. Last I heard he was doing a stint in the federal pen. Most. Ethical. Congress. In. History.

bgates

fluffy pork pies like the NEW GI Bill.
Is there a new new GI bill? Because I remember you saying McCain's opposition to the new GI Bill was egregious.

eightnine2718281828mu5e

---
Bush I lost to Perot.
---

A theory supported by the observation that lunacy is attractive to the republican electorate.

centralcal

Chris: 89 is compulsive/obsessive and will always turn up when he knows someone -- anyone -- will engage with him. That is his schtick.

eightnine2718281828mu5e

---
Relevance?
---

Lots of talk from republicans that being a war hero implies fitness for office, yet countervailing arguments (like Cunningham) don't seem to be part of the conversation.

Semanticleo

"opposition to the new GI Bill was egregious."

Still is:

But, the stink from that episode pales in comparison with his taking credit for same.

Chris

"Lots of talk from republicans that being a war hero implies fitness for office,..."

Where? Citation, please. It's a clever but transparent reframing which tries to paper over O's lack of ANY relevant experience. McCain has experience, part of which is his having served honorably, above and beyond the call. Not the sum and total by any means.

Porchlight
Dan thinks McCain will do well before such an audience; I agree.

I've mentioned this in past threads - I have an old high school buddy who does lighting design for the MTV/MySpace "Presidential Dialogue" tour. He traveled with the candidates all through the primaries, and reports that McCain did great with college age audiences. He was relaxed, funny, and consistently a hit. My friend is a diehard Democrat but said he really ended up liking McCain a lot after several of these events.

glasater

Obama is confident about his ability to use a teleprompter and make people swoon. Not much else from what I can see

Jane--forgive me for going on a riff from your comment--but I don't think BHO likes "girls" all that much.
Just watching body language when he does the rope lines.

Rick Ballard

Cunningham's conviction provides a roadmap for Fitz to use should he decide to prosecute Obama. The Rezko Slumlord group could not have gone forward without Obama's water carrying regarding the bill which changed the makeup of the boards distributing pelf in Illinois. The 'quid pro quo' is clear and all that remains is for Fitz to extract the information necessary from Rezko in exchange for a sentencing recommendation.

My bet is that Fitz goes after Blag rather Obama though. I don't think he really has the backbone to take on Obama.

Let's see, Jefferson's trial is now scheduled for February, Rezko's sentencing for September and who knows when Conyer's will be charged - but we do know that a target letter has been issued. Has Kwame Kilpatrick's trial date been set?

As to TM's question "Has Obama been afraid all of his life?", I'm sure that there was a time while he was at madrassa in Indonesia during which he felt relatively secure. At least until his mother pitched him. After that, the answer would be "no", not a day.

Soylent Red

glasater:

Are you saying Obama is gay?* How does that fit in with the notion that Obama is a Muslim?

/dog whistle

It would explain a lot about being married to Michelle, who is essentially an angry Teamster trapped in a black female lawyer's body.

Jane

That's funny Glasater, Amy and I were talking this morning about obviously gay (effeminate) men that you see (happily) married to women. Most of them treat the women like their mothers not their lovers. It's an odd sort of uber-left phenomena.

Thomas Collins

The point of McCain's military service is not that it gave him automatic foreign policy experience, but that it is is an indication of how he reacts under duress. McCain stood up to torture at the Hanoi Hilton, and B57O gets rattled when reporters ask him too many questions. Whom do you wanting taking the 3 am call?

eightnine2718281828mu5e

---
Cunningham's conviction provides a roadmap
---

Take inspiration where you can find it I guess.

BobS

Jane's obviously part of the "Save the Males" movement. Thank you.

centralcal

Jane - Hit and Run, hit and ran over on the "Ask a Silly Question" thread. Sounds like he is really enjoying his vacation and beer guzzling. grin.

Porchlight

I would also argue that McCain's POW experience gave him up close experience with the nature of the enemy. Hard to pull the wool over the eyes of someone who's been through that. In contrast, BHO doesn't seem to be able to get beyond UN-style warm fuzzies at the idea of Talking To Everybody. He is and will be easily manipulated.

eightnine2718281828mu5e

---
It's an odd sort of uber-left phenomena.
---

Yes, Clinton comes to mind.

Better file that under 'things you know that you don't know'.

eightnine2718281828mu5e

---
It's an odd sort of uber-left phenomena.
---

And of course Larry Craig and Mark Foley wouldn't be incorporated into your model.

eightnine2718281828mu5e

---
He is and will be easily manipulated.
---

So far he's beaten the Clinton machine, taken over Bill's party, and is currently beating McCain; Obama seems to have a pretty good grasp of reality to me.

Or are you thinking the Clintons are peace-and-love-let's-hug-each-other sorta people?

That's certainly not the way republicans have been portraying them for almost 20 years.

eightnine2718281828mu5e

---
I would also argue that McCain's POW experience gave him up close experience with the nature of the enemy. Hard to pull the wool over the eyes of someone who's been through that.
---

And yet your hard-eyed realist was completely blind-sided by the Bush campaign in 2000.

Sue

One time, a long time ago, an old lady told me that someday we would be asked to denounce Israel. We would have to hide our Bibles. We would have to hide our Christianity. I thought she was bat shit crazy. I couldn't figure out how on earth she thought something like that would happen. She never mentioned Islam or I would be flipping out right about now. I think she had the "eye", if you know what I mean. Lately, I've thought about that old lady a lot.

glasater

Wasn't it Rosemary Rogers who wrote about muslim men and how they were kinda/sorta switch hitters?:-)

glasater

Sue--I heard that same thing (hiding Christianity) when I was a kid.

bad

The craziness continues.

Slightly adrift from your point. Wasn't there some flap a while back about more black dogs go unadopted from shelters? Can't remember if that was a local or national issue.

Sue

glasater,

Did we know the same old woman? ::grin::

Cecil Turner

TM,
IMHO this thread illustrates yet again that 89 is an active hindrance to discussion.

bad

One time, a long time ago, an old lady told me that someday we would be asked to denounce Israel.

The lefties are way ahead of the curve on this one.

glasater

Did we know the same old woman?

I'm thinkin':-)

eightnine2718281828mu5e

---
Did we know the same old woman?
---

When I was a kid my mother's aunt told me that when man set foot on the moon it would turn to blood.

So of course I got up in the middle of the night to go look; sounded like quite a show.

glasater

I've photographed the lunar eclipse this last February and the images show an interesting red color.

bad

bad, Townhall has a piece by D'nesh Desouza (or however you spell his name) pretty much saying what you just did.

Oh carp!! I finally have a coherant thought and its already been done.

MikeS

John McCain should challenge Barack Obama to...

Mac should offer a new challenge to Obama every week. He should claim credit for getting Obama to flip flop on the issues. McCain should also try to anticipate where Obama will next try to change his position (as on removing troops from Iraq for example), and Mac should preemptively advise Obama to make that change in his position.

eightnine2718281828mu5e

---
interesting red color.
---

Yeah, I think if there are fires/volacnic eruptions it puts soot/dust into the air so the light passing through the atmosphere makes the moon look red.

The sunsets during Mt. Pinatubo's eruptions were pretty cool.

MarkO

89?

So far he's beaten the Clinton machine, taken over Bill's party, and is currently beating McCain; Obama seems to have a pretty good grasp of reality to me.


There is just no question that as a master of the tent show revival, Obama commands the reality of selling himself. And, we may well be in the time of everyman as President. But, he really has no substantive experience to be President. Because those of us who have previously been healed at prior tent shows have no basis on which to judge him, he asks us to believe that his overriding judgment and transcendence will vanquish all doubts and foes. Unfortunately, someone who openly says he will supplant King Canute and that only now we Americans have health care, seems to lack the judgment to be President, while clearly showing his grasp of the reality of being elected.

One could complain of his judgment in selecting friends, pastors, supporters and the like, but that would be applying the wrong criteria: Obama is nothing if not calculating and measured. He picked his pastor and his friends not for the ostensible purpose of religion or friendship, rather for his personal advancement (cf. the reason he dropped Wright). So, in this sense, his judgment was perfect.

That leaves us, however, with Obama the huckster, the phony, the eternal flip flopper, the nuanced, the Grand Excuser. Another round of Bill Clinton, only perhaps even less principled.

The reality he grasps is of a different order.

eightnine2718281828mu5e

---
Mac should offer a new challenge to Obama every week.
---

Just makes him look whiny and weak, like a kid begging to play with the big boys.

Soylent Red

Mike:

That's essentially the strategy the Dems have been using on us for the last eight years.

Difference is, the Obamessiah will fold under the pressure.

bad

John McCain should challenge Barack Obama to a week-long set of town-hall debates (say, 4-5 of them) on college campuses...

My college kid is a McCain fan of several years.

MikeS

Obamessiah will fold under the pressure.

Yup. He will be begging McCain to just let him eat his waffle.

eightnine2718281828mu5e

---
That leaves us, however, with Obama the huckster, the phony, the eternal flip flopper, the nuanced, the Grand Excuser. Another round of Bill Clinton
---

Possible, but Clinton's talent was in knowing how far to bend before breaking. He was able to work with a republican congress and get some useful things done, like welfare reform.

Rigid personalities make for bad governance; W's poll numbers reflect that reality.

MarkO

89?

Not really, it makes Obama look like he is, a creation of ambition, unable to project authenticity, unwilling to show himself. Afraid of disclosure. Come on. At least you are not afraid of looking silly.

eightnine2718281828mu5e

McCain also changes positions; he's just not good at selling it.

And 'selling it' is a critical job; the bully pulpit is one of the major assets of the presidency; if you can't use it effectively, you're doomed, and by extension, the country as well.

 Ann

Sue,

GO PUPPIES!!!!

sbw

Just got online after the Yankee trip (They lost, but wonderful family time.) and will read the threads later. So, sorry if this has already been cited. I am skipping to the front to point to Protein Wisdom on Obama throwing Clark under the bus. Squish! Heh!

The AP’s Jennifer Loven covers Barack Obama’s speech on patriotism, in which he said he “will never question the patriotism of others in this campaign” and implictly threw his surrogate Wesley Clark under the campaign bus for questioning John McCain’s war record. [Update: Here's the official squishing sound. -K]

The Hill notes that Obama also implicitly whacked MoveOn for its “General Betray Us” ad last year. Yet Obama refused to vote on a Senate resolution condemning MoveOn’s attack at the time, saying, “By not casting a vote, I registered my protest against these empty politics.” Of course, Obama is now dashing to the center and already has MoveOn’s endorsement, which Obama welcomed.

Yes, enough of the Obamanable name permutations. O! is irretrievably, unalterably, succcintly, and forevermore: "The Flim-Flam Man."

eightnine2718281828mu5e

---
a creation of ambition
---

Every one of these guys woke up one morning, looked in the mirror, and thought to himself:

"Yeah, I'm the man."

After that it's planning and execution; but it all starts with ego and ambition.

eightnine2718281828mu5e

---
threw his surrogate Wesley Clark
---

Wesley Clark, after talking to the Obama camp yesterday, went on TV last night and refused to issue a retraction.

That tell you anything?

MarkO

89?

Clinton has issues with confrontation. He is good at deception, having learned that at home and used it well in his personal life. His vaunted intelligence did not exhibit itself in his law school work. He just talks a bunch. You are right about his willingness to bend anything (those in the know will laugh here) and to compromise any principle. He checked the polls daily. In the end, not even his own party liked him. He’s still angry that Obama did not wait his turn.

But, Obama is a pale shadow of Clinton in the area of principle. By the way, how about voting against giving health care to babies that survived abortion. Of all times not to vote “present.”

bad

Obamessiah will fold under the pressure.

Obamasighuh caved big time in regard to re-presenting his wife: clothes, make-up, hair, speech, thought; the whole stepford wife package. Why did she go-along-to-get-along when her entire history says she is no consessionist to white sensibilities? I'd love to know what he promised her in exchange for her transformation. The possibilities give one pause, especially if she is truly the oar guiding the ship.

sbw

Double Heh! - H/T to Instapundit for the pointer to Commentary:

It is remarkable that now two savvy guys like Krugman and Brooks can’t figure out what Obama is. And neither seems to be playing coy to make a rhetorical point — they really don’t know.

But maybe that’s no accident. Obama has told us there is no there, there. In his book he wrote: “I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.” So perhaps searching for Obama’s “core” is a fool’s errand. He is glib and clever and seized upon a clever formulation (Agent of Change) to attract young and idealistic people longing for meaning.


And not finding it.

Soylent Red

Are you calling Michelle a Oar?

MarkO

89?

“but it all starts with ego and ambition.”

True. But that’s only as far as Obama has gone. And, he excels at those efforts. Usually, we want more than the minimum from the President. But, after Clinton and this Bush, maybe not.

bad

Are you calling Michelle a Oar?

Not only an oar, but a leftist, black power oar.

MarkO

How did that go? My sister's an oar and she don't look like that.

bad

Soylent

Hopefully she won't be an oar to a ship of state.

Soylent Red

bad:

A oar for power? Attention oar? While the campaign goes on, she's just a plain road oar, sometimes a truckstop oar.

When she's making smartaleck comments, she's a crack oar.

MarkO

89.

If you want any further rational discussion, don't go with the snarky pictures. That's not a discussion, it's Clintonian. It's, well, to use a phrase near and dear to Obama's heart, a distraction.

Speak to me of survivng aborted babies and their lack of a right to health care.

But, if you must post pictures, go with Vaness Chase.

MarkO

"Vanessa" I guess I finished too soon.

Jane

When she's making smartaleck comments, she's a crack oar.

Soylent, you crack me up.

eightnine2718281828mu5e

I'm guessing Cindy's tossled, man-handled, yet satisfied look will extend an invigorating bounce to McCain's flagging campaign.

Cindy

Soylent Red

I finished too soon.

Which can be a problem with Vanessa Chase.

Soylent Red

As for 89...

When presented with the compare and contrast of Cindy and Bulldoggy and it will go like this:

They will assume that Obamessiah has a drinking problem to be hitting Bulldoggy on a regular basis. Because that's what it would take.

Then they will give McCain a thumbs up and say "YOU DA MAN!"

Charlie (Colorado)

Rigid personalities make for bad governance; W's poll numbers reflect that reality.

eµ, you might want to look up the phrase "nonsequitur".

Soylent Red

Wow...typepad mangled my syntax.

Still...I blame Clinton.

BobS

I think you're on to something about Obama being easily lead. He sorta reminds me of Anthony Kennedy in a metrosexual sorta way.

MarkO

89,

Please go somewhere else and let a rep from the Obama camp who can discuss issues take your place.

bad

Soylent you're "cracking" me up and I'm trying to make a point about hope and change marriages.

The point thas been made that MO is the one with convictions and Obamasighuh is desperate for approval to the point of having no convictions. Just being president will be good enough for him.

So what is Obamasighuh going to do if he becomes president to reward his wife for her role in getting him elected?

Some new shoes ain't gonna cut it.

eightnine2718281828mu5e

---
So what is Obamasighuh going to do if he becomes president to reward his wife for her role in getting him elected?
---

Take the little jockey off the Whitehouse lawn?

bad

So what is Obamasighuh going to do if he becomes president to reward his wife for her role in getting him elected?

He ressurects all of his leftist, criminal, terrorist, pro-palestinian, anti-american, God damning buddies from under the bus and re-labels them as personal advisors and whitehouse staff.

Scarlett he leaves under the bus 'cause the oar tells him he hasta.

Jane

Charlie,

I completely agree with your worries. Note no Obama supporter ever cites any reason for their support. They preen and prattle and never say a damn thing.

bad

Charlie and Jane

Maybe he shoots mind bending rays out of his eyes.

eightnine2718281828mu5e

Say Jane; you've said you hated my trying to be nice to sara because of the implied misogynism.

Yet all these references to 'oars' don't seem to offend you.

Since misogynism per se is of no concern, it must have been the 'playing nice' part that rankled you so.

Which was my first take, but now I've gotten evidence in support of that conclusion.

Preen away, my little darling; your public awaits.

bad

Charlie and Jane

I do wonder if his fans really feel that way or if they've heard this is how they should react, so they do, not wanting to feel left out of the magic and all.

glasater

Charlie--Here is a passage that comes to mind from your link....

.....image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.

link

Jane

I'm in a constant debate with 3 or 4 lefty Obamakins. THEY NEVER EVER SAY A THING. They can't defend his policies because he has none. They are full-fledged BDSers and whenever they hear of Obama's lies, or flip flops or whatever they simply ignore the subject or make some stupid comment about McCain. SO certainly the people who are so in the tank for Obama seem to have that Messiah thing in common.

eightnine2718281828mu5e

Sound and fury Jane, sound and fury.

Porchlight

Jane,

Do they refer to him as "Barack"? The Obamabots in my office do that and it drives me around the bend.

bad

...or make some stupid comment about McCain.

If you're lucky... Hip, young, cool, hope and change, blah, blah, blah....

That "young" moniker is intriguing. Obamasighah is about the age of many college kids parent's whom the college kid considers hopelessly old, chronologically speaking.

Jane

89, Get this straight:

My issue with you is that you pretend to feel sorry for people so you can lord over them. You like victims. They make you feel better. For some reason they elevate your sorry narcissistic ass. You are so clueless that you don't realize that many of us have spent a lifetime refusing to be victimized. Being a victim is not a badge of courage but rather an opportunity to achieve greatness. And toads like you try and take that away every chance you get. And yes, I recognize that you will never understand what I'm talking about. But frankly I don't give a damn.

I also understand that my reaction to your abject ignorant patronization so flummoxed you that you have spent the last three days trying to justify, minimize and alter what you said and when that didn't work you attempted to bolster the troops to turn on me.

You failed on every count. Yet you are so narcissistic that you feel the need to come back and rudely interrupt, derail and trivialize every conversation. You find sordid comfort in coming into our living room and shitting on the floor.

Most of us are done with you. If you have enough time to spare, that you can justify your self-absorbed dumbed down participation here, well so be it. But I predict you will soon get bored by being systematically ignored.

Is that clearer?

eightnine2718281828mu5e

---
They can't defend his policies
---

The majority of the public agrees we should start pulling troops out of Iraq; I agree.

Here's his position:

---
Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.
---

Soylent Red

glasater:

I'm no end-of-days-er, but I've certainly spent a fair proportion of my reading time in the Bible.

The more I see of Obamamania, and the international nature of it, the more I am reminded of the Revelation. Remember the Beast will sway people with talk of peace and will be considered a great leader by people around the world.

But...

I think a more likely, and appropriate, book is "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich". Watch "Triumph of the Will" and compare it to an Obama rally. The people have the exact same looks on their faces.

eightnine2718281828mu5e

---
You like victims. They make you feel better.
---

What I did was the equivalent of chatting with a person in a wheelchair or holding the door open for them; if that gets me labeled a "narcissistic ass", that's quite all right with me.

That doesn't mean I'm going to stop chatting or holding doors for them.

boris

frak off troll

glasater

Soylent--appreciate your comment and will get "Triumph".

Right now we've got a fair sized thunderstorm coming on and the lightning is starting to flash--been going on here for a couple of days.

Is it something I wrote/said?:-)

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