Joe Biden

Joe Biden is the VP pick.  It's interesting how far off the table the war in Iraq has fallen as an issue for the Democrats - Biden voted for the fateful resolution in 2002 (isn't this all about judgment?) and has not been much of a proponent of willy-nilly withdrawal, and yet here he is.  Some snippets from this collection of his thoughts:

From Sept 2007, Meet The Press:

Q: Will you insist on a firm withdrawal date?

A: I will insist on a target date to get American combat forces out, all but those who are necessary to protect our civilians that are remaining there, and to deal with al-Qaeda.

Q: If the president does not accept a firm withdrawal date, will you vote to cut off funding?

A: I will vote, as long as there's a single troop in there, for the money necessary to protect them, period.

Q: Many Democrats who will vote in the primary will say "The only way to stop this war is to cut off funding. Everything else is small talk, and unless you're willing to do that, you will not be the Democratic nominee."

A: You need 67 votes to cut that off. All 51 votes will do is delay building these vehicles [with armor to protect troops]. And if you tell me I've got to take away this protection for these kids in order to win the election, some things aren't worth it. Some things are worth losing over. That would be worth losing over.

Also from that Meet The Press:

Q: Your presidential campaign has a political ad about Iraq:

NARRATOR: "In a world this dangerous, with a crisis as tough as Iraq, hard truths need to be told. Joe Biden says this war must end now."

Q: In 2005, you said: "We can call it quits and withdraw from Iraq. I think that would be a gigantic mistake. Or we can set a deadline for pulling out, which I fear will only encourage our enemies to wait us out--equally a mistake." You've changed your mind?

A: Well, I have changed my mind, but I haven't changed my mind in any fundamental way. If you go back, I [always said] you need a political solution. And there's time, I thought back then, if the administration had been wiser, to generate a political solution allowing us to pull out. Now the situation we're in, if the president continues to insist on this strategically-flawed notion of being able to establish a central government that can control Iraq before we leave, I ain't buying into that.

That refes to his Biden plan to split Iraq into three federated states, which was at least a plan for something resembling stability and victory.

And here was a whiff of reality from Aug 2007 (my emphasis):

Q: What if al Qaeda takes over Iraq?

A: You know, Bush has not told the truth for seven years; it's time we tell the truth. The truth is if al Qaeda establishes a base in Iraq, all these people who talk about going into Pakistan are going to have to send your kids back to Iraq. And so the fact of the matter is it matters how we get out of Iraq. Separate the parties. Give them control over their own security. Begin to draw down our troops. But let's start talking the truth to the American people.

I like the way he begins that with some Bush-bashing in an attempt to bond with is base.

Let's note that the Council on Foreign Relations describes Biden as a fierce war critic (the same could have been said of McCain, one might argue).  Biden did oppose the surge, so he has gone 0 for 2 at crunch time.

MORE:  Ron "The Dean" Fournier of the AP is scathing:

DENVER – The candidate of change went with the status quo.

In picking Sen. Joe Biden to be his running mate, Barack Obama sought to shore up his weakness — inexperience in office and on foreign policy — rather than underscore his strength as a new-generation candidate defying political conventions.

He picked a 35-year veteran of the Senate — the ultimate insider — rather than a candidate from outside Washington, such as Govs. Tim Kaine of Virginia or Kathleen Sebelius of Kansas; or from outside his party, such as Sen. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska; or from outside the mostly white male club of vice presidential candidates. Hillary Rodham Clinton didn't even make his short list.

And a Brit braces the Euros for possible defeat with the news that Obama does not have this in the bag with a cogent overview of the race that concludes thusly:

The key to understanding the presidential campaign as it enters its phase of maximum intensity is this. The more the campaign is about the concerns of the American voter, especially the state of the economy but also the general anxiety about the direction of the country, the more likely they are to throw the Republicans out.

But the uncomfortable truth for the many devoted fans of Senator Obama is that the more the race is about him, the less likely he is to win it.

I MAY DISAGREE WITH GOLDBERG HERE:  Jonah:

I think it is an outright terrible decision on Obama's part to pick Biden. Yes, he helps balance Obama's inexperience on foreign policy, but he also reminds people of it.  Yes, Biden could conceivably be effective as an attack dog. But Biden is such a gasbag he makes the Hindenburg look like a sack of rocks. Obama doesn't need to increase his lip-flapping quotient.

OK, Biden and Barack may come off as the "Just Words - and lots of 'em" Dream Team.  OTOH, Biden may be best equipped to make Barack look laconic.  And the inevitable gaffes from Biden should distract nicely from the inevitable gaffes from Obama.

JERALYN MERRITT:  A long time Hilary supporter is holding her nose.                                               

Comments

[Danube of Thought]

Seems to me that the Kos crowd will be apoplectic over this choice. And then there's the Hillary crowd...

[Captain Hate]

I can't imagine the Durantys at PMSNBC are too happy with this; Matthews with dead-leg syndrome and Olberdunce staying in the bathtub until November 6.

[Perfect Sense]

By choosing Biden, Obama has unilaterally stepped into a quagmire with no exit plan.

[MarkO]

Judgement?
So, if McCain says he won’t run again (even if he does) will all the disaffected Clintionists either stay home or vote for him?

[Semanticleo]

Who gives a friggin' fig what Biden's foreign policy strategies are, he's not gonna be
Prez'.

Y'all know EXACTLY why he was chosen, don'cha?

Talk about VICIOUS. He'll have McCaine sputtering with spittle. Ahab won't be content letting someone else answer Biden's
Barbs. He'll insist on doing it hisself, 'cause, you know, he's McCain.

[GMax]

Slow Joe Biden is not gonna let the Democrats get swiftboated this time around by golly! Do I have the meme correct?

Well at least when he drones on and attacks we will finally have one less DNC meme to deal with.

Swiftboating means telling the truth about someone record, by the way. And Kerry to this day has not refuted one thing the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth said about him and his dubious record.

[windansea]

Kos says:

This has been the best veep rollout EVER. . . . [I]is there a better example than this that old media is getting left out in the cold?

sure buddy, 3AM on a Saturday morning

[Barney Frank]

Talk about VICIOUS.

Well, Biden is kinda slimy and underhanded and prickly but vicious doesn't come to mind. Pompous and not self aware seem a little more on mark. The word cockalorum was invented for knotheads like Biden.

He'll have McCaine sputtering with spittle.

While I confess communist torture techniques probably can't hold a candle to the agony of listening to one of Joe's endless, droning stemwinders I'll guess that McCain will at least be able to keep his lapels dry.

[Danube of Thought]

"Y'all know EXACTLY why he was chosen, don'cha?"

QUACK quack quack quack quack...

[clarice]

windansea--I haven't seen you around for a while.

[kim]

Leo, if it works it will have been an inspired choice. But McCain and Biden have been dueling for decades, and I'll bet it's a lot easier to rile Biden than McCain.
====================================

[Rar]

Biden has been there longer than Castro. He won't let other people serve. Obama wants change.

Obama hates term limits. He got his opportunity and he's just going to pay off his pals.

McCain's ad is pretty neat. Obama isn't ready and won't be; Biden has been in Congress for 35+ years, so he thinks he can buy how to be President.

[Danube of Thought]

"Y'all know EXACTLY why he was chosen, don'cha?"

QUACK quack quack quack quack...

[Danube of Thought]

Jeez...a double quack.

[Ranger]

JERALYN MERRITT: A long time Hilary supporter is holding her nose.

She actually says in the comments section of one of the threads that after this she is undecided about voting for Obama or leaving the top of the ballot blank...

To paraphrase LBJ, if you've lost talk left, you've lost the election.

[MayBee]

I think Biden is a good choice for Obama. At least for me...because should Obama win, I want someone that at least knows stuff about foreign policy in that office with him. I can imagine Biden telling Susan Rice to stuff it.

[anduril]

Earlier this morning on a different thread I linked a TNR profile of Biden. I'm relinking the article, Rhetorical Question, properly formatted this time (with my trademark bolding added, for the convenience of skimmers). It dates from 2001, but I've seen nothing over the intervening years that would suggest that Biden has changed, grown or...matured. Since he's supposed to be a foreign policy whiz, this time I've included the closing paragraphs as well as the beginning, to give a flavor of Biden's "thinking" on two foreign policy issues that just happen to be of pressing concern to the US. More now than in 2001. This first few paragraphs simply provides a sort of vignette of Biden's "personality." I suspect Washington, D.C., and the political world in general are awash in Biden stories of this sort:

It's a bright early October morning on Capitol Hill. Joe Biden is bounding up the steps of the Russell Senate Office Building, wearing his trademark grin. As he makes for the door, he is met by a group of airline pilots and flight attendants looking vaguely heroic in their navy-blue uniforms and wing-shaped pins. A blandly handsome man in a pilot's cap steps forward and asks Biden to help pass emergency benefits for laid-off airline workers. Biden nods as the men and women cluster around him with fawning smiles. Then he speaks. "I hope you will support my work on Amtrak as much as I have supported you," he begins. (Biden rides Amtrak to work every day and is obsessed with the railroad.) "If not, I will screw you badly."

A dozen faces fall in unison as Biden lectures on. "You've not been good to me. You're also damn selfish. You better listen to me..." It goes on like this for a couple of minutes. Strangely, Biden keeps grinning--even fraternally slapping the stunned man's shoulder a couple of times. When we finally head into the building, Biden's communications director, Norm Kurz, turns to me. "What you just witnessed is classic Senator Biden."

Meet the current chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and the Democratic Party's de facto spokesman on the war against terrorism. No other Democrat has been as visible in the weeks since September 11, and Biden, who began promoting himself almost immediately after the attacks, is likely to speak, for the foreseeable future, for a party lacking in foreign policy experts. That's good news for a man who is thinking seriously about running for president in 2004. But is it good for the Democratic Party? Biden is tough and he's an internationalist. Unfortunately he's also legendary for speaking impulsively and leaving others to clean up the mess. "He lacks the filter," says one Democratic strategist. Or as a senior Senate foreign policy aide put it: "Biden is an unguided missile." Not exactly the persona you want out front when the country is at war.

...

At the Tuesday-morning meeting with committee staffers, Biden launches into a stream-of-consciousness monologue about what his committee should be doing, before he finally admits the obvious: "I'm groping here." Then he hits on an idea: America needs to show the Arab world that we're not bent on its destruction. "Seems to me this would be a good time to send, no strings attached, a check for $200 million to Iran," Biden declares. He surveys the table with raised eyebrows, a How do ya like that? look on his face.

The staffers sit in silence. Finally somebody ventures a response: "I think they'd send it back." Then another aide speaks up delicately: "The thing I would worry about is that it would almost look like a publicity stunt." Still another reminds Biden that an Iranian delegation is in Moscow that very day to discuss a $300 million arms deal with Vladimir Putin that the United States has strongly condemned. But Joe Biden is barely listening anymore. He's already moved on to something else.

And speaking of foreign relations--which will almost certainly be front and center in this campaign (as the Dems seem to expect with the Biden choice)--here's a provocative article from Pravda: Will Russia Force Rebirth of Realism. And here's a red meat quote:

To understand just how unsettling Russia’s invasion of Georgia is to American foreign policy, it’s useful to highlight a short exchange that Senator McCain’s leading foreign policy advisor Randy Scheunemann had with a reporter from Radio Free Europe in April.

Scheunemann was asked whether the U.S. should be willing to “trade off” Georgia and Ukraine’s NATO aspirations in return for Russian support for U.S. missile defense systems in Central Europe.

“Well, I think first of all the administration has said very clearly and publicly that there will be no trade-offs,” Scheunemann responded. “Trade-offs like that are kind of a relic of a bygone era of power politics.”

This view of diplomacy with the former Soviet superpower – that U.S. positions were inviolable and that we would make no serious accommodation to Russia on behalf of a hierarchy of interests - was dealt a severe, if not lethal blow by the Russian invasion of Georgia.

For years, the U.S. had pocketed Russian concerns about NATO expansion and protests about attacking Serbia and later recognizing an independent Kosovo. Then, as now, American officials have argued that none of the measures sited by Russia as grievances were legitimate. They were never undertaken to encircle or weaken a former adversary.

American actions have not been “inherently threatening to Russia,” said Derek Chollet, Senior Fellow at the Center for a New American Security and a former State Department official in the Clinton administration. Instead, the Russian reaction owed more to the wounded and aggressive nationalism of Vladimir Putin, who once called the break-up of the Soviet Union “the greatest geopolitical catastrophe in history.”

...

The point was also made that Russia could not expect to exercise a veto over the interactions of sovereign governments. Yet at the same time that the U.S. expected Russia to come to its post-imperial senses, we also expected Russia to join U.S.-led efforts to disarm North Korea and dissuade Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons. All this, while steadily fortifying U.S. power ever closer to Russia’s borders.

Russia’s grievances may be unjustified on the merits, but they can no longer be ignored.

The author is optimistic that Russia's action will force a return to realism in foreign policy. I'm not as optimistic, given the calibre of foreign policy thinking exhibited by both the Obama and the McCain camps to date. I also disagree with the author in another respect, and am more optimistic than he is. He believes that the continued prevalence of neocons in foreign policy thought on the GOP side may lead to greater confrontation with Russia in the coming years. I'm not so sure about that. While there has certainly been the usual hawkish rhetoric, I've documented during the past week what appears to be a significant degree of dissent from neocon orthodoxy in this current turn of events, including at such normally stalwart neocons sites as AT, NR and PJMedia. That, I believe, gives reason for cautious optimism.

[Pofarmer]

Last time they couldn't get one blue state Liberal(who served in Vietnam) and one Southerner elected. So, this time they think they can get TWO blue state Liberals elected.

This should be fun.

[clarice]

It's the wind and gas(bag) ticket.

[Jim]

"2024. President Biden, now 82 and in the last year of his second term, didn't even open the morning's economic report. It would be the same as the one before it and the one before that. He no longer read them anymore. With the Depression now in its tenth year, his mind often drifted back to the glory days of 14 or 15 years ago, when everything seemed so sure and it was just he and Barack against the world. When unemployment figures of over 20% had driven the president out of his mind, he had been forced as VP {to take the helm. But to no avail, as tax increases and new programs didn't seem to right the ship. He..."

etc.

[clarice]

I guess this was the O camp thinking:
He looks like he knows something about foreign affairs and we don't.
Secondly, he's an attack dog and we can send him out to do the dirty work while we play head in the clouds hopey changey games.

[Semanticleo]

"I'll bet it's a lot easier to rile Biden than McCain."

Mebbe so, but TAG-TEAM wrestling lets Obama
take the high road. McCain will be flyin' just above the deck with reckless disregard because, you know, he's McCain.

[windansea]

windansea--I haven't seen you around for a while.

I read but don't always have time to comment, besides you guys always cover all angles quite well.

I did use your tip awhile back saying dollar would go up vs Euro, made me look good on a Mexican forum :)

[Barney Frank]

How did Biden avoid the draft?
Not the dread student deferrments I hope.

In any event I expect the Koskids to be in the streets shortly, protesting this militant chickenhawk ticket which continues beating the wardrums for escalation in Afghanistan.

[Captain Hate]

The only thing that could make this weekend better would be for the donks to bring in their closer: Bob '0-8' Shrum.

Dean, you unmagnificent bastard!

[clarice]

Shrum Shrum I'm going to fight for you!!!

[Lea]

Weird rollout. Predictable, Boring Choice.

I don't think this will hurt Obama though. I occasionally think Biden talks some sense. Not all the time, of course, but occasionally, which is more than I can say for a lot of Dems.

I'm still sad about Bill Richardson not being anywhere. He was my favorite candidate on the dem side by far, which of course means he went nowhere fast.

[Danube of Thought]

Sending a $200 Million check to Iran would be a great way to "show the Arab world that we're not bent on its destruction," if only Iran were part of the Arab world. Is Biden aware that Iranians are not Arabs?

I've been worrying about the absence of Shrum myself. With any luck, they'll sign him up soon.

[Semanticleo]

"I'm not so sure about that. While there has certainly been the usual hawkish rhetoric, I've documented during the past week what appears to be a significant degree of dissent from neocon orthodoxy in this current turn of events,"

Indeed. There was some indication of that here to my OT comments on the Georgian affair.

Seems they think it would be insane to protect a former Soviet republic trying to go democracy while so close to Russian supply lines and with so many nukes at their disposal. We should never enter a shooting war with someone who can actually hit back.

Then there is Cecil Turner, the unrepentant one.

[Jane]

Mebbe so, but TAG-TEAM wrestling lets Obama
take the high road.

Let us know when he starts, okay? Obama is about the lowest road candidate I've ever seen. Ii attribute that to the fact that he can't talk substance, cause he has none. If you think having Biden on the ticket will change that, I want some of what you are drinking.

[Porchlight]

Please, Semantic. Ever see a big kid hold a little kid at arm's length while the little kid flails around and throws punches into the air? That's what McCain will be doing with the windbag Biden. If Obama hasn't been able to goad McCain into saying sommething he'll regret, what makes you think Biden will be able to? Unless you're admitting Biden is a stronger candidate than Barack?

And as for the old-Senate-warrior-who-has-the-dirt-on-McCain meme, McCain knows just as well as Biden where the bodies are buried in the Senate.

[Semanticleo]

"Obama is about the lowest road candidate I've ever seen."

If you say so. I don't think Ahab has been
very elevating, but he had to do something about the Polls, didn't he.

If you are talking reality, then I'll give you Sum-Zero. But it's public perception, you know.

[GMax]

Joe Biden the racist candidate?

"I've had a great relationship (with Indian Americans). In Delaware, the largest growth in population is Indian-Americans moving from India. You cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I'm not joking,"

There is a youtube video of him saying exactly this in case you think I am joking.

Goes well with the racist President Pro Tempore of the Senate dont you think?

This is the party of inclusion? What is hopeful or changing about this?

[GMax]

I wonder what Biden thinks about Blacks?

[stan]

I'm amazed that so many lefties are saying Biden is smart. Of course, they said the same thing about Gore and Kerry and Edwards and Hillary and Dukakis and Boxer and Pelosi and Dean and Reid and ...

[Semanticleo]

"Joe Biden the racist candidate?"

OMG! Do you see? It's already working.

[anduril]

Gmax--he likes them if they're clean cut and well spoken. He said so himself.

[Ranger]

BTW, Team McCain had an ad ready at 6 am this moring.

Via Hot Air

Not bad...

[Extraneus]

I have this image of Biden in his bedroom, dressed in an ascot and smoking jacket, gazing admiringly into a giant gilded mirror and asking a staff lackey how good he looks.

If ever there was a bigger gasbag, it must have been before my time, but I'm happy with the pick. I think Fred will crush him in the debate. :-)

[Cecil Turner]

Personally, I don't think it's a great pick. My main beef with Biden is this stupidity on the role of Congress in declaring war:

I happen to be a professor of Constitutional law. I'm the guy that drafted the Use of Force proposal that we passed. It was in conflict between the President and the House. I was the guy who finally drafted what we did pass. Under the Constitution, there is simply no distinction ... Louis Fisher(?) and others can tell you, there is no distinction between a formal declaration of war, and an authorization of use of force. There is none for Constitutional purposes. None whatsoever. And we defined in that Use of Force Act that we passed, what ... against whom we were moving, and what authority was granted to the President.

Though SCOTUS finally ruled the interpretation was essentially correct (Hamdi v. Rumsfeld), the confusion caused (and moral cowardice displayed) was palpable. He also displayed an appalling lack of judgment in the negative assessment what would prove to be the winning strategy:

The Bush administration is heading in exactly the wrong direction.

Instead of a diplomatic and political offensive to forge a political settlement, it proposes a military offensive that would send 17,500 Americans into the middle of a sectarian conflict in a city of 6.2 million people.

This military surge in Iraq is not a solution - it is a tragic mistake.

And note later in the same interview, his rationale behind the aborted attempt to have a do-over on the AUMF resolution. Obama might think he's getting someone with foreign policy expertise with this pick, but in my opinion it merely reinforces his big negative: the typical Democrat cluelessness on national defense.

[GMax]

Clean and well spoken and dont shuffle their feet?

Only with our current media does this party not get laughed into oblivion.

[GMax]

If ever there was a bigger gasbag,

I would say that John Kerry would fit the description although he may be able to gasify in fewer words than Slow Joe.

[JM Hanes]

I must say, I think Biden is the best of the lot. It's a relief to see somebody with some credible foreign policy experience and a pragmatic understanding of how the world works on the Obama ticket. I'm hoping to see Susan Rice and some 300 advisors sliding under the bus.

That said, here's a run down the new talking points. The New York Times, in the understated fashion we've come to expect, leads off:

He is also, at least arguably, a Washington insider, having worked there for so long, though he still commutes home to Wilmington every night by train.

I like the fact that Biden's actually been going home every night -- which is probably why it's already part of the foundational spin. If you were thinking that Biden is the kind of guy who measures his shirt cuff line when he dons his suits, you've got a surprise coming!

Linda (We've Got Women Too!) Douglas, from Obama HQ showed up on Wolf Blitzer this morning with the news that Biden is no insider! He's "not a creature of Washington," he's "not on the Washington cocktail circuit." He's a real, working class "lunch bucket" stiff, of "modest means" who has spent his life "fighting for average Americans." "He doesn't spend all his time hanging around with lobbyists," (unless you count his son, but that will surely be family, not politics) and by the way, "He's got this enormous Irish family." That would be an Irish Catholic family of course.

And we're off!

[anduril]

He was speaking in praise of Barry. Got a lot of play back when he said it.

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

Biden: 'He's bright, articulate, clean...AND HE'S MINE.'

[Cecil Turner]

Seems they think it would be insane to protect a former Soviet republic trying to go democracy . . .

Seems to me you were suggesting a forcible entry operation into the middle of a Russian assault. You want to volunteer for that? Ask your son if he does.

[anduril]

some credible foreign policy experience and a pragmatic understanding of how the world works

At the Tuesday-morning meeting with committee staffers, Biden launches into a stream-of-consciousness monologue about what his committee should be doing, before he finally admits the obvious: "I'm groping here." Then he hits on an idea: America needs to show the Arab world that we're not bent on its destruction. "Seems to me this would be a good time to send, no strings attached, a check for $200 million to Iran," Biden declares. He surveys the table with raised eyebrows, a How do ya like that? look on his face.

The staffers sit in silence. Finally somebody ventures a response: "I think they'd send it back." Then another aide speaks up delicately: "The thing I would worry about is that it would almost look like a publicity stunt." Still another reminds Biden that an Iranian delegation is in Moscow that very day to discuss a $300 million arms deal with Vladimir Putin that the United States has strongly condemned. But Joe Biden is barely listening anymore. He's already moved on to something else.

[Porchlight]

I have this image of Biden in his bedroom, dressed in an ascot and smoking jacket, gazing admiringly into a giant gilded mirror and asking a staff lackey how good he looks.

Gilderoy Lockhart! Excellent visual, Extraneous.

And I believe Professor Lockhart also got in trouble for embellishing his resume.

"I think I have a much higher I.Q. than you do."

Maybe Barack and Biden have more in common than I first thought.

[Danube of Thought]

Drink some of this, Jane:

"Barack Obama's choice of Joe Biden as his running mate is unlikely to shake-up the presidential horse race. In a new Washington Post-ABC News poll completed last night, three-quarters of voters said picking Biden would not sway their votes one way or the other. And about as many said they would be more apt to support Obama with Biden on the ticket as said the choice would make them less likely to vote Democratic on Election Day (13 to 10 percent)."

From the estimable Washington Post.

[Danube of Thought]

"America needs to show the Arab world that we're not bent on its destruction. 'Seems to me this would be a good time to send, no strings attached, a check for $200 million to Iran,' Biden declares."

His foreign-policy expertise is such that he thinks Iran is part of the Arab world.