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August 03, 2008

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Comments

kim

This guy has nothing on the plate except race and class envy. Send it back to the Chef. Oh, wait, I can stomach it for a month.
===============================

Rick Ballard

Kim,

The Obama race hustling fellow described by Kurtz is wholly unknown to The One. It isn't a matter of "change over time" in this instance. Hustler Obama v97 existed in a separate space time continuum than that which The One occupies today.

If you don't believe me, well, that's certain evidence of your deep and engrained racism. The only way that your racist sin can ever be expiated is by voting for The One in November. Just be thankful you have the chance.

anduril

Kurtz's article adds a few more pieces to the by now familiar picture of The One, as no more than a more photogenic and better spoken Chicago machine politician. Definitely worth a read.

I wonder, does The One's "empathy [for] accomplished minority students at elite universities who sometimes lived “under a cloud they could not erase,” extend to Clarence Thomas? Thomas is continually assaulted by libs who want him to admit that he didn't deserve what he got in life, including admission to an elite law school. If you're conservative they won't let you live it down.

Captain Hate

I'm still waiting for the first bit of evidence that this jug-eared clown is "post-racial".

Rick Ballard

"Mr. Obama has not described how he felt then. But as a state senator, he spoke with empathy about accomplished minority students at elite universities who sometimes lived “under a cloud they could not erase.”

And then, having spoken, proceeded to act:

In 2004, a U.S. District Court disallowed the ordinance under which Chicago required the use of at least 25 percent minority business enterprises and 5 percent women's business enterprises on city-funded projects. In the immediate aftermath of the ruling, Obama and Jesse Jackson were among the prominent voices calling for a black leadership summit to plot strategy for a restoration of Chicago's construction quotas. Obama and his allies succeeded in bringing back race-based contracting.

Proving, once again, that mere words cannot encompass the universal wholeness of The One. Is there anyone who does not feel a sense of awe in the ability of The One to plant his his feet so firmly on both sides of a yawning chasm?

anduril

Let me briefly continue my exchange with JMH, from an earlier thread. Two points and a link:

1. While I usually agree that most people don't pay attention to a presidential campaign until after the conventions, I wonder whether this year may be somewhat different. Factors that might lead to an earlier interest might include: 1) the extended primary season with two Dem candidates who attracted lots of attention--one (as per usual) highly negative from the GOP standpoint and one unusually positive from the lib standpoint; 2) pervasive concerns about the economy, even if it hasn't impacted too many people adversely to this point; 3) The One's large supply of money and the press' worship has kept him front and center to an unusual degree. Just wondering.

2) JMH maintained, briefly, the pointlessness of bothering to criticize The One's "rebate" proposal--take $1,000 from disfavored large corporations and spread the largess around: Robin Hood economics, as it were. After all, he might deep six the idea any time before the convention. However, my brother sent me this editorial from IBD: Phony 'Emergency', from which it appears that The One's rebate plan is part of his newly unveiled "Emergency Economic Plan" which was released in document form--it was not an off the cuff remark which he could easily renounce tomorrow or the next day.

IMO, McCain would be well advised to devote some energy to--how shall I put this?--'demonizing' The One's plan as "the rantings of an extremist fringe candidate than a serious contender for the presidency." I think it would be money and time well spent, not merely as an exercise in policy formulation but as directed toward establishing precisely who The One is. What does this type of proposal say about the basic identity and attitudes of the person who proposes it? This, I think, is ultimately the question that the large undecided contingent is wondering about. The One may well wish to dump this idea at a future date, but he has committed it as part of a formal document and it would behoove McCain to make sure that it is not forgotten, just because The One and his MSM acolytes may later wish it to be.

anduril

I should add that my brother's comment when he sent me the IBD link was:

"what's really disturbing is that he came out with this claptrap shortly after discussionswith the likes of Robert Rubin, Bobby Reich and Bernanke."

Either he spoke to these guys about the economy or he moaned about his busy schedule. If the former, it is indeed disturbing that he came out with this redistributionist claptrap shortly after the discussions. That would indicate that The One either didn't listen to a word they said to him or that...

bio mom

Now, now, these are all just "distractions".

Jane

One of my points was that if the two people have seemingly equal resumes but one has had a consistent opportunity to benefit from affirmative action, than the resumes are not really equal, now are they?

This was Clarence Thomas complaint in reverse. He was in the top 2% of his class at Holy Cross and was accepted to Harvard and Yale law school (and decided on Yale because Harvard wasn't liberal enough) and when he went to find a job he thought everyone who interviewed him assumed his grades and everything else were an AA gift.

I recently spoke with Satch Sanders about whether he thought AA helped or hurt. His response was "someone gives you a gift you take it", since all kinds of gifting (I'll hire you because you are my friend's nephew) are going on every day of the week.

JM Hanes

The Kurtz piece was pretty disappointing. Maybe it's because Obama himself is so superficial, but I don't think Kurtz added much of substance either.

Obama's columns from the state capital tell us little. Placed in the context of political and policy battles then raging in Illinois, however, the young legislator's dispatches powerfully illuminate his political beliefs.
Translation: Instead of quoting from Obama's columns, I'll be talking about what folks he knew were doing.

The fact that issues of race have "engrossed" Obama is not exactly news.

anduril

JMH, agreed. Obama is superficial, perhaps because he has invented a persona. A real person is always more interesting than an invented one.

Jane, also agreed (with Sanders). Gifting of all sorts goes on continually. As long as you're able to perform up to standards, persons who accept such gifting can't be blamed. The problem arises when some persons are "gifted" by being tossed in over their heads and then accept what amounts to a free ride.

Goe

Look at his legislation and what the votes on.

Dad went to Harvard, son went to Harvard, wife went to Harvard. Harvard is all over the money and the money is the government. That is all it is.

Writing?

ParseThis

I heard of a study that showed when two job candidates (one black, one white) had seemingly equal resumes except one was a convicted felon, the convicted felon was more likely to get the job offer. Affirmative action explains away a lot.

centralcal

Red State has the following from a Rasmussen poll about Obama's recent statements:

----------
As for Obama’s comment, 53% of white voters saw it as racist, as did 44% of African-Americans and 61% of all other voters.
----------

I was a little surprised at the 44% of African American's, since we have all been told that 90% of them support The One. I thought they would be more protective and say he wasn't playing the race card by a larger percentage than they did.

Jane

The problem arises when some persons are "gifted" by being tossed in over their heads and then accept what amounts to a free ride.

I think we should have had, or should now institute, a "one generation" policy. You get one generation of leg-up and then it is your job to use that leg-up to inculcate the values in your children that allow them to succeed on their own merit.

I got my first two professional jobs because I was a woman. I assume my gender and the fact that I was older was the reason I got into the law school I did. My niece wouldn't understand that sort of system if she tripped over it. She knew, as did I, that hard work is how you get ahead. The real problem with AA from my perspective is that it is always there. No reason to try all that hard, no reason to work hard and save for your kid's education because they will also be given a free ride. It perpetuates the wrong values. It is self defeating.

JM Hanes

anduril:

"However, my brother sent me this editorial from IBD: Phony 'Emergency', from which it appears that The One's rebate plan is part of his newly unveiled "Emergency Economic Plan" which was released in document form--it was not an off the cuff remark which he could easily renounce tomorrow or the next day."

Distancing himself from his own positions is Obama's forte. The variations are endless; he can revise, update, expand or claim any particular plan was put out prematurely by staff....

IBD may think, "It's shocking that a mainstream candidate, with so many supposedly well-regarded economists advising him, would produce such a shoddy, poorly thought-out plan." It doesn't surprise me. Such documents, along with reams of proposals on his website, simply allow Obama to avoid talking policy in public forums, speeches and, ultimately, debates. He can mention one or two appealing specifics ($1,000 to every suffering family!) and then refer you to his website or his "Economic Emergency Plan" for details while he speechifies with generalities.

Again, however, I'm not suggesting that McCain shouldn't be framing the kind of policy debate you're talking about. I've simply been saying that the balance of emphasis in his summer campaign strikes me as about right, and that if you look at his current trajectory in the polls, it appears to be working pretty well so far. With the convention under his belt and a VP on board, I expect the tenor of the campaign will shift dramatically going into the fall election season.

Porchlight

Re: the claim in the Times story that "former classmates" report that Obama did not mention his race when applying to Harvard, I have a somewhat related anecdote. My brother, who is white, happens to have a name that could be construed as African-American. When he applied from out-of-state to the University of California (at that time you could apply to all the UC schools with one application, not sure if this is the case now), in an act of adolescent rebellion he checked "Other" in the race box.

Well, lo and behold, with his not-particularly-impressive GPA and SAT scores he was accepted sight unseen to every single UC school, including Berkeley. (He ended up at Santa Cruz, which was his first choice all along.)

DrJ

in an act of adolescent rebellion he checked "Other" in the race box.

I always did that too; if there was a blank I wrote in "Teutonic."

centralcal

O/T: For your Sunday reading PLEASURE - yes, pleasure, please take a few minutes and go to Weekly Standard (LUN) to read about a new movie, a comedy/satire that is being filmed and due for release this October 3rd (An American Carol). A sample from the article about the movie and movie makers is below:


"The holiday in An American Carol is not Christmas and the antagonist is not Ebenezer Scrooge. Instead, the film follows the exploits of a slovenly, anti-American filmmaker named Michael Malone, who has joined with a left-wing activist group (Moovealong.org) to ban the Fourth of July. Along the way, Malone is visited by the ghosts of three American heroes--George Washington, George S. Patton, and John F. Kennedy--who try to convince him he's got it all wrong. When terrorists from Afghanistan realize that they need to recruit more operatives to make up for the ever-diminishing supply of suicide bombers, they begin a search for just the right person to help produce a new propaganda video. "This will not be hard to find in Hollywood," says one. "They all hate America." When they settle on Malone, who is in need of work after his last film (Die You American Pigs) bombed at the box office, he unwittingly helps them with their plans to launch another attack on American soil."

Jim

It's reactionary to keep advocating pernicious old economic dogmas, stirring up class envy, and capitalizing on racial strife in order to gain power. Obama is a reactionary.

OT, here's a quiz! Which president of the last thirty years allowed a spendthrift Congress to increase spending by a factor of two or more, spurred the economy and increased IRS revenue by cutting taxes, dealt a crushing blow to our villainous enemy, and is reviled by lefties as an evil and stupid man? Narrowed it down? Okay, between your two candidates, which president wasn't much of an inspiring speaker or a visionary? Got it? You win!

SWarren

Obama is an empty suit--a poser and a manipulating operator! His modus operandi has always been manipulation to attain his goals.

When Obama returned to Chicago to practice law, he joined the board of Rudd's foundation. Now he was going to the other side. "That's a switch!" she told him. Obama insisted that nothing would change. "Oh no," he said, according to Rudd. "I'm going to use the same skills as a community organizer."
In fact, Obama had already been applying Alinsky's core concepts--rigorous analysis of an opponent's strengths, a hardheaded understanding of self-interest as a fundamental organizing principle, a knack for agitating people to act, and a streetwise sense of when a raw show of power is necessary--to situations beyond the South Side. In 1988, Obama left Chicago for Harvard Law, where his greatest political victory was getting himself elected president of the law review. He did it by convincing a crucial swing bloc of conservatives that their self-interests would be protected by electing him. He built that trust during the same kind of long listening sessions he had made use of in the depressed neighborhoods of Chicago. "He didn't get to be president of Harvard Law Review because he was first in his class," said Richard Epstein, a colleague of Obama's at the University of Chicago Law School, where Obama later taught. "He got it because people on the other side believed he would give them a fair shake."
Even at Harvard, Obama kept a foot in the world of organizing. He spent eight days in Los Angeles taking a national training course taught by the IAF, a station of the cross for Alinsky acolytes. And, after he returned to Chicago in 1991, he served on the boards of both the Woods Fund and the Joyce Foundation, which also gives grants to Alinsky-style groups, he and continued to teach organizing workshops.

"Barack Obama's unlikely political education:
The Agitator"

LUN

And at UC he wasn't "Professor", he was a part-time Lecturer. When his Presidential CV was prepared, he had promoted himself to "Professor of Constitutional Law" but when caught out his CV was corrected to Lecturer. I question just what he was teaching? From the photo at the NYT article,on the blackboard: Power Analysis >Relationships Based on Self Interest (just a continuation of his community organizing workshops)

bgates

I always did that too; if there was a blank I wrote in "Teutonic."
I put "800m".

John McCain benefited from a legacy preference at the Naval Academy, if "legacy preference" is broadly defined
DoT seemed to take great offense at that idea. Does anyone know if the USNA or the Pentagon has a written policy on the subject?

Charlie (Colorado)

bgates, there is a very clear written policy, which was established by law in 1903. There is no repeat no legacy preference. The one preference of that sort is that the children of Medal of Honor winners get

On the other hand, someone who has an Admiral for a grandfather is more likely to know their local Congressman, and so might get some leverage that way. But, as DoT has pointed out, once you arive at the Academy, there is the opposite of a legacy preferance: you're treated more harshly than the average.

Tom, unless you can establish in some way that McCain got some special privilege, I think you should retract the "legacy" thing.

richard mcenroe

"when an economist wrote about discrimination against people with "black-sounding" names in resumes that were mailed to prospective employers"

And what, may I ask, is wrong with 'Chlamydia Shabazz X?'

JM Hanes

anduril:

As an addendum, I'd just mention (if I haven't already done so!) that what I'm hoping for most in McCain's VP pick is a guy who can articulate the case against Obama on economic policy issues.

Danube of Thought

When John McCain entered the academy in 1954, he was required to and did pass the academy's entrance exam. No pass, no admission. (They did away with their own exam and shifted to SAT's the year I entered, 1958. There was a hard-and-fast cutoff score, and if you were below it you didn't get in.) His father was a captain, not an admiral, at the time. I do not know how he got his appointment.

There are two kinds of appointments, congressional and presidential. The allocation of congressional appointments is rather complicated, but generally it works out to each senator and congressman making one appointment to each academy per year.

Presidential appointments are available to the sons (and daughters) of persons on active duty or who are retired from active duty. I do not know how many presidential appointments are made each year.

At the time I sought an appointment my father was a rear admiral on active duty. My congressman would only give me an appointment for the following year, so I took a competitive exam to get a presidential appointment. If McCain's appointment was a presidential one, he would have taken the same competitive exam.

My brother was a three-star admiral on active duty when his youngest son applied for an appointment. He had to wait a year to get it, and spent that year as a college freshman.

I have never heard the term "legacy" used for presidential appointments--they're available to the children of career military people, whether graduates of a service academy or not.

In any event, if you don't do well enough on the exam/SAT, you don't get in.

anduril

JMH, we're parsing things pretty finely now--I think we're pretty much on the same page. BTW, google this

eric cantor vp pick mccain

and you'll see there's a lot of heat being generated.

jimmyk

DoT, what you seem to be saying is that being a child of a career military person is necessary but not sufficient to get one of these appointments. Some might still call that a "legacy" privilege, since someone who is not in that position can't get one no matter how high his SAT score is. Is that correct? I would agree, though, that it's not the same kind of legacy as the "gentlemen's C" types at the Ivies.

But more to the point, wouldn't it be a matter of public record whether McCain was a presidential or congressional appointee? Even though this is all minor stuff, it would be nice to have the facts to refute the trolls.

GMax

NO that is most definitely not correct. There is a process, each congresscritter and Senator has his own selection process. Some congressmen have lots of applicants, others few or none. Getting the coveted nomination has more to do with understanding the system and being persistant.

It does not hurt if you can find someone who knows the Congressman or Senator personally, which is quite true as well in damn near every endeavor of mankind. References and referral get you noticed.

anduril

Jane and DrJ: AA is a touchy subject in a number of ways. If you check the admissions page of any elite university or professional school I'd bet that they all state that they can't possibly admit everyone who is qualified and would be a credit to that institution. And they're right--at some point it becomes a numbers game and choices have to be made. Are we supposed to really feel sorry for someone who was denied admission to Yale Law and had to settle for, maybe, Northwestern because Clarence Thomas was in the admissions pool? Was he denied a life? I don't think so. But there are harder situations, as we all know, that arise from using non-relevant considerations as deciding factors. And there is invidious discrimination. One of my sons once applied for a job and left the "optional" race block blank. He got an email--an obvious indication of interest--demanding a response. He didn't hear from them again.

Here's an interesting comparison (to me). I'm willing to grant that Clarence Thomas, but for his skin color, would never have been granted admission to Yale Law. Yet Laurence Tribe has described his opinions as some of the most intellectually stimulating that have been produced on the court in recent years, and I don't believe I've ever seen accusations that he isn't pulling his weight. OTOH, Eliot Spitzer, by the usual standards, was supremely qualified for admission to Harvard Law. Which admissions decision served the public better--and perhaps even the individuals?

That's one of the downsides of AA. Clarence Thomas is an interesting. intelligent, deeply human and intellectually engaged person with a conscience. This is the type of person top law schools should be looking for, but I believe AA is one (but only one) of the factors that has focused attention on numbers rather than total quality to a disturbing degree. And that is unfortunate. Difficult question. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but...

It's just that demon life, maybe...

Danube of Thought

My understanding of "legacy" admissions is that they are reserved for the children of graduates of a particular institution, e.g. Harvard. I think that is a far cry from the presidential appointments to the service academies, in my opinion, inasmuch as they are a benefit conferred in return for service--in the case of retired people, a minimum of twenty years of service.

There are also appointments available to the children of Medal of Honor winners, as someone pointed out.

Using Google I was unable to find out the nature of McCain's appointment, but I did come across all sorts of uninformed garbage about how his admiral daddy got him in. As I pointed out, his father was a captain, but even had he been an admiral it wouldn't have nailed down a congressional appointment, any more than it did in my case or my nephew's.

I looked through "Faith of My Fathers" and found no mention of McCain's appointment.

ParseThis

if "legacy preference" is broadly defined to include being given additional opportunities to have your sorry ass shot at.

Rreminds me. A McCain ad opens with scenes from the summer of love. The narrator segues, "but overseas, a different kind of love," juxtaposed with a jet fighter clip from Vietnam. I always get a kick out of that imagining John McCain dropping his heavy payload and shouting out, "Feel the love, you gook bitches!" And it starts to make sense why McCain was so certain we'd be greeted as liberators in Iraq. As he figures, the love we take should be equal to the different kind of love we make.

I've got a bad feeling about McCain. I think foreign relations may worsen. Other countries are going about their business and are considering America increasingly irrelevant. The best symbol I can think of for America under a McCain presidency is a cowboy riding off into the sunset.

That's not my legacy preference.

Danube of Thought

"what you seem to be saying is that being a child of a career military person is necessary but not sufficient to get one of these appointments."

That's true. It makes you eligible for the appointment, but it doesn't guarantee it, and in any case you still have to meet the entrance requirements, including exceeding the SAT cutoff.

jimmyk

I don't believe I've ever seen accusations that [Thomas] isn't pulling his weight.

Unfortunately I have heard many snide comments about him all the time from some of my more obnoxious acquaintances on the left--ironically, some referring to his presumed AA privilege, some referring to his habit of not asking questions during hearings, some referring to the high correlation between his votes and Scalia's--but all rather explicitly claiming that he is stupid. These people seem clueless about how truly racist they sound, but of course their presumption is that a truly intelligent black person could not possibly be anything but leftwing in his politics.

Rick Ballard

I always get a kick out of imagining Barrack Obama accepting bribes from Tony Rezko to help him suck taxpayer's money out of their wallets and shouting out, "Feel the love and don't forget - vote for me or I'll have an ACORN thug start eviction proceedings!"

bad

Reparations--Is Obama for or against them?

There's enough flexibility in the term "reparations" that Obama can oppose them and still have plenty of common ground with supporters.

The NAACP says reparations could take the form of government programs to help struggling people of all races. Efforts to improve schools in the inner city could also aid students in the mountains of West Virginia, said Hilary Shelton, director of the NAACP's Washington bureau.

LUN

Plenty of opportunity for nuance here.

DrJ

Eliot Spitzer, by the usual standards, was supremely qualified for admission to Harvard Law. Which admissions decision served the public better--and perhaps even the individuals?

A school department can only tell in retrospect how well those they accept perform professionally. Each school uses certain indicators to decide what sorts of people they want, and these are admittedly crude. That includes AA, and unfortunately that is simply too blunt an instrument to be useful.

In my case, answering "race" honestly would have been of no help to me. There is no way the admissions committee could tell, for example, that English was not may native language if I were simply to check the "white" box.

DrJ

*my* not *may*

anduril

A school department can only tell in retrospect how well those they accept perform professionally.

Well, except when the admissions committee decisions are driven by quotas. In that case they often admit people they KNOW ahead of time can't perform up to the expected standards. Read the Princeton theses of la Michelle and her brother Craig and ask yourself: is this representative of the writing skills of Princeton grads? If anything, one comes away feeling some sympathy for la Michelle's view that she was being slighted just because Craig could play basketball.

DrJ

Well, except when the admissions committee decisions are driven by quotas.

That too should be included in a reevaluation of admission standards. Sadly, it is not.

You might not believe how ingrained some of this nonsense is within academia. I could only take a year as a senior University administrator before I had had enough and went back to the crass commercial sector.

Jane

*my* not *may*

Thus proving your point.

(kidding)

bad

Gateway has links, including to Obama's website, to discussion of Obama's childhood mentor, Frank Marshall Davis.

In a strange development, supporters of Barack Obama's childhood mentor, Frank Marshall Davis, are openly debating the nature and depth of Davis's commitment to the Communist Party and his relationship with the Democratic candidate. The debate has gotten heated.

This unusual debate, which is taking place on Obama's official website, raises the question once again as to why Obama has not been asked by the major media about this relationship. Davis was identified as a Communist Party member by various investigative committees and acknowledged his party membership in a private letter obtained by John Edgar Tidwell, who was sympathetic to Davis and edited his books.

LUN

Danube of Thought

"I always get a kick out of that imagining John McCain dropping his heavy payload and shouting out, 'Feel the love, you gook bitches!'"

Well, Parse, I guess we all get our kicks in different ways, and who are we to suggest that your way sounds so sick as to be revolting?

bad

The best symbol I can think of for America under a McCain presidency is a cowboy riding off into the sunset.

Been done to death over the last eight years. At least come up with new symbols or imagery to accompany the stale, tired rhetoric. Aren't lefties supposed to be creative?

Porchlight

Wow, bad, thanks for the Gateway link. I would be completely amazed if any serious discussion of Davis makes it into the MSM. But stranger things have already happened this season.

bad

From the Kurtz article:

In the accompanying article, although Obama denies demanding that black legislators march in perfect lockstep, he expresses anger that black state senators have failed to unite for the purpose of placing a newly approved riverboat casino in a minority neighborhood.

A white legistator attempting to do the same thing might run into some criticism, ya think?

bad

porchlight

It will be interesting to see if the discussion remains on his website or disappears into the wide blue yonder.

Annoying Old Guy

DoT;

No, it's not true that "being a child of a career military person is necessary". I have two friends, one who went to the USAF Academy, and another to West Point. Neither was a child of a career military person. Both got in via Congressional appointment. GMax has it right. Remember, the average US Representative has only 700K constituents. How many of those do you think have children who want to go one of the Academies in any given year?

Captain Hate

"I've got a bad feeling about McCain."

No unicorns in the picture?

PeterUK

I don't know if Obama got his education under the auspices of affirmative action,but he is certainly demanding it to elect him president.

Neo

AP (via the LA Times) discovers Frank Marshall Davis.

Sara

Affirmative Action in reverse:

A short story. In 1938, Forbes Magazine ran an essay contest open to all, or so it would seem on the surface. The subject of the essay was to be "Why I like to work for my company." So, the question makes the assumption that the essayist would be working, and by implication, a company that was worthy of Forbes Magazine.

There were 700 essays in the final cut. My Mother's essay was the winner. The prize was a 5' high sterling silver loving cup, a $500 cash prize (alot of money in 1938) and a week long expenses paid trip to NYC staying at the Waldorf, climaxed with a huge awards dinner attended by all the NY business elite.

When my Mom got off the train at Grand Central, there was a coterie of Forbes executives and press there to meet her. However, a major crisis developed when they saw that L.E. L'Hommedieu was a WOMAN. It never occurred to anyone connected to the contest that a woman might enter, let alone win. Immediately, there was a cry of foul, and they even went so far as to suggest that they could not allow a woman to claim the prize, even though her essay beat out 700 others. One man called it "unseemly."

My Mother until the day she died in 2004 said that it was to the credit of "old man Forbes" (grandfather to Steve Forbes) that she got her prize. He stepped in and said he didn't care if she was a woman, she had entered fairly and won fairly and the whole idea was to give the prize to the person who had demonstrated they were the best and the brightest in business.

The night of the dinner, he changed his plans and escorted her and told her he dared anyone to make any negative remarks. When pressed, he admitted that had she entered as Lucie L'Hommedieu rather than L.E. L'Hommedieu, her essay may not have been considered, but that it was not something anyone should be proud to admit. At the awards dinner he also gave a short speech about the great untapped business minds "out there" who wear skirts.

In 1988, on the 50th anniversary of this event, I contacted Forbes and asked if they ever thought of doing a follow up story, like "where is she now?" kind of thing. I also contacted Westinghouse about it, since they were the company my Mom's essay was about. I got the archvist at Westinghouse, who was a retired executive, and he told me over the phone, "oh I remember Lucie, she had the best damn legs of any woman I ever saw, before or since." So, her legacy was her legs, not her brain, with the company she helped get so much positive publicity for, but in the business world, she was looked at as some kind of scam artist because she fooled them into thinking she was a man in order to enter the contest in the first place.

It took another forty years for women to begin to achieve true parody in the workplace. As Jane indicates, gender became one of those AA criteria. Porchlight mentions how a name can affect selection even today.

centralcal

I briefly interrupt this AA discussion to tell you that according to RedState, Republican leaders are calling on their members to return to Capitol Hill on Monday to continue the energy debate.

Let's hope a large number of them respond and go back to the House.

As you were, JOMers.

DrJ

...to achieve true parody in the workplace.

You mean parity? *grin*

Interesting story.

jimmyk

A school department can only tell in retrospect how well those they accept perform professionally. Each school uses certain indicators to decide what sorts of people they want, and these are admittedly crude.

No excuse, because schools can use the retrospective results to assess the efficacy of the criteria that they use in their ex ante assessments. But they don't--in fact they ignore or suppress evidence that the AA-type criteria result in predictably sub-par performance.

Sara

When I worked for a Member of Congress and it was academy appointment time, the criteria to get that coveted Congressional appt. were very strict.

First, an applicant better have a near perfect academic record and excellent test scores. But of near equal value was what the candidate did outside of school. Were they an Eagle Scout (a big plus)? Were they active in other ways in their community? Had they demonstrated leadership in their life? Of course, were they trouble free as far as disciplinary action, etc? We had a point system and being a child of an active duty or retired military parent got an extra point, but was not by itself definitive, but could be a tie breaker.

The main criteria was did the applicant demonstrate leadership, academic excellence, and honesty and honor.

bad

Interesting except from Neo's link to the LATimes:

Davis said Obama's grandfather would never understand people like him because they hadn't experienced the humiliations he had, according to Obama's memoir. As he left Davis's house that night, Obama wrote, he knew he was completely alone for the first time in his life.

The implication is that Obama was fine until someone "taught" him racial humiliation. And even though this teaching made him feel completely alone, he found it necessary to "teach" the same lesson to his daughters in Rev. Wright's church.

Dude is not about racial healing.

centralcal

bad: very interesting about Davis and Obama.

OT: I see Obama is now calling for the full seating of Florida and Michigan delegates at the Convention.

LUN

DrJ

No excuse, because schools can use the retrospective results to assess the efficacy of the criteria that they use in their ex ante assessments.

Exactly my point. And the schools do all they can not to do these sorts of things. My closest ties are probably to Berkeley -- you have no idea what goes on there.

Neo
A number of influential people in Russia, China, India, Indonesia and Vietnam say the planet is now entering a 30-year cooling period, the second half of a normal cycle driven by cyclical changes in the sun's output and currents in the Pacific Ocean. Their theory leaves true believers in carbon catastrophe livid.
DrJ

The main criteria was did the applicant demonstrate leadership, academic excellence, and honesty and honor.

It also helps if you excel at sports. My niece will probably go to the Naval academy; they really want her because she is a superb high-platform diver. So my brother is in the midst of the Congressperson recommendation.

Neo

AP (via the LA Times) discovers Frank Marshall Davis, but it appears a bit more complicated then they figured out.

bad

A truly magnanimous gesture since Hillary has asked not to have her name placed in nomination. What a guy!! I see a weekend in Denver with nothing but healing, healing, healing...

Jane

I briefly interrupt this AA discussion to tell you that according to RedState, Republican leaders are calling on their members to return to Capitol Hill on Monday to continue the energy debate.

That is great! It was fascinating to watch old blink-not on Stephanopolus this morning trying to defend her refusal to have a vote. Even George was mystified.

Danube of Thought

Annoying Old Guy:

Please go back and read carefully what I said, and what I understood JimmyK to be saying. What both of us (or at least I) said--and it's codified in Title 10, United States Code--is that in order to get a PRESIDENTIAL appointment it is necessary to be the child of an active duty or retired service member. No one has suggested that there is any such requirement for a congressional appointment. Of the 1,164 midshipmen who entered in my class, I believe that 75 were appointed by the president.

As for your question about how many people in a congressional district have children who want to go to a service academy, it varies all over the lot. In some districts there are far more applicants than there are available appointments, and some districts make no appointments in a given year--often because none of the applicants is qualified in the view of the congressman.

And of course getting an appointment doesn't get you admitted. It just gives you the chance to compete for admission.

Danube of Thought

DrJ, I wish your niece the very best of luck. My young cousin is there now, in her junior year, and has been selected to spend the next semester studying in China. A magnificent young lady.

Ralph L

IIRC, at one time the service academies had a certain number of appointments available for children of disabled veterans (it may have been WWII vets only).

One of my brother's friends joined the Army out of high school when his father was a Colonel. He got no end of crap for it, plus what he brought on himself. He now has two small children and a serious case of leukemia.

My brother & I were far too near-sighted (and I was 15 lbs underweight) to feel any pressure to go to Annapolis like our Dad. So we worked for defense contractors for a few years. Most of the young people I worked with there were military brats also, the older ones were retirees.

bad

Ralph

I will pray for your brother and his family. Please accept my deepest sympathies.

Danube of Thought

It's all spelled out at 10 U.S.C. Section 6953. In my posts above I completely forgot that a fixed number may be admitted each year from the enlisted ranks, and there are some "appointments" (actually nominations) that can be made by the Secretary of the Navy. The statute makes the point that all appointments to the academy are made by the president, who has the sole power to do so. But the "nominations" are what have always been referred to as appointments, and as the statute makes plain, the great bulk of them are congressional.

As my Con Law prof used to say, we can argue about it or we can look it up.

Danube of Thought

RalphL, there's still a quota alloted for children of 100% disabled vets.

bad

Ralph

I meant your brother's friend.

Ralph L

bad, thanks, my brother is fine, it's his friend who's ill.

bad

A first name is helpful if you are comfortable sharing that.

Sara

DrJ: as soon as I posted, I realized I left off sports or a demonstrated physical fitness to withstand the rigors of training.

A demonstrated well-rounded life of academics, physical fitness/sports, leadership, and honor. And it helped too to have recommendations indicating the candidate was well-liked and got along well as a team player and as a leader of his/her peers thru student government or some other activity.

During selection time, our whole staff was involved sometimes in going to high school events or working with teens who were applying in order to evaluate their true character.

One of the candidates I remember who got an appointment, was an honors student, captain of his high school football team and also lettered in track, voted most popular in his high school yearbook, was an Eagle Scout, and volunteered with the Special Olympics and he won the regional science fair.

The Congresswoman used to say, "I'm looking for the 110%ers, not those who dial it in."

Sara

BTW, I forgot to mention that we got tons of applicants. Annapolis was in our District and being so close to Washington, we had a ton of kids who were children of the military or had other high ranking parents.

Ralph L

Patrick, known as Pat.
He was having trouble with his legs and finally went to the doctor, who put him in the hospital for a month of treatment. I need to call my brother to get an update.

Porchlight

bad,

My guess is the Davis discussion on the Obama site will go bye-bye pretty soon. But that doesn't mean the story will go away (I hope).

Sara,

That is an incredible story, about your mom and the Forbes essay. I'd like to read it - can I find it in the relevant 1938 issue of Forbes?

Ralph L

Sara, I went to a couple of football games in the 90's with my Dad. Most of the black players were from Maryland or Virginia.

Danube of Thought

A lot of black football players at the Naval Academy in recent years came from Georgia, where coach Paul Johnson had coached for a number of years in Division 1AA (or whatever they call it now). He was really dialed in to the recruiting business in that state. He's going to be missed.

bad

Thanks Ralph, what a difficult situation for Pat and his family. I hope they have a good support system.

DrJ

Thanks for the good wishes. The back story is that she is graduating this year, but did not receive the Congressperson's recommendation. It was suggested that she spend a year at a prep school, essentially to get her grades up and go through a year of "polishing" from an institution that the Academy respects. Then it is back to the recommendation.

It is all rather more involved than I expected, and since it is completely foreign to me, I might have some of the details slightly wrong.

Ralph L

One hopes they got more out of it, and gave more, than just football. I think my school finally ended the lower academic threshold for players and legacies, but not racial minorities.

RichatUF

DrJ-

It was suggested that she spend a year at a prep school, essentially to get her grades up and go through a year of "polishing" from an institution that the Academy respects.

If she were close, and is set on getting in the Naval Academy see if she qualifies for the USNA-Prep School. If memory serves their intake is about 1/2 civilian (high school and college students) and the other 1/2 are active duty sailors (or Marines) and once she completes the program she would be one the Sect. of the Navy's academy nominations.

Ralph L

I should add males to the list. When I was there, it was 2.25:1 m:f and the Trustees wanted to keep it that way to keep contributions up. It's now about 1:1 and sex blind.

Rick Ballard

"It's now about 1:1 and sex blind."

Poor kids. The should have paid more attention in those health classes.

bad

O/T

Just saw a headline at hot air that David Gergen says McCain's Moses ad is code for "uppity".

Damn I'm dumb!! I thought it was clearly saying "gasbag." anyone got a link to the codebook so I can stop being so stupid!!!???

PeterUK

A moment of amusement the London Chapter of Code Pink. Strangely,i can't see these loons and Eco Nazis.When the lights go out they are supper.

Rocco

Since Harvard has a policy of Grade Inflation, someone should ask Obama this question. If one of your loved one's needed life saving surgery, which graduate from Harvard Medical School would you want doing the surgery? The one who was given the A, or the one who earned the A.

I don't think this is what Dr King had in mind when he said "in a world where they won't be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." We used to strive for excellence in this country, now we settle for diversity.

Jane

Gergen said that this morning on Stephanolopolus and it was more like - any black man who gets out of the ghetto is considered "uppity' by racist whites. Frankly I was a bit shocked at how in the tank Gergen is. He lacked any objectivity at all. At one point I expected him to drool.

bad

wierd Jane. The black kids hanging out with my kids say those accusations come from other black people. Its called "trying to be white."

bad

Peter

Why don't those people just grow a victory garden?

PeterUK

bad,
Please,those poor innocent plants!

DrJ

If she were close, and is set on getting in the Naval Academy see if she qualifies for the USNA-Prep School.

This already is a done deal. Sorry, I don't recall the name of the school. It is in the same general area as the one you cite, and no, it is not close. I do recall that one important aspect was access to and good instruction in platform diving, which is not trivial as I understand it (liability, mainly).

RichatUF

Jane-

Gergen said that? Anyway, I'm not sure how it applies to Obama seeing as how he had an upper midddle class background, grew up for the most part in Hawaii, and had a whose-who of the FBI's 10 Most Wanted as mentors and patrons.

bad

"Uppity" sounds like something said in Gone With The Wind. Gergen needs to modernize his reading list.

MayBee

Imagine the outrage if someone wrote a book during this campaign cycle about Obama and named it "Imperial Hubris".

Would that mean uppity?

MayBee

On the other hand, someone could pull a Dick Gephart and call Obama a "miserable failure".

I think a lot of these critics have no recollection of what they've said about Bush over the last 8 years. They'd squeal if it was said about Obama, I know they would.

RichatUF

Maybee-

I think you're on to something: "Miserable Failure: Obama, Ayers, and the Reform of Chicago Public Schools"

"Imperial Hubris: Obama, Axelrod, and Reflexivity in the 2008 quest to rent out the White House"

"Obamawhacked: Life in Obama's Chicago South Side"

RichatUF

One more:

Fraud: The Strategy Behind the Obama Lies and Why the Media Didn't Tell You

That one could be a bestseller.

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