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August 21, 2008

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» Obama Annenberg Exposé from UNCoRRELATED
Free the Obama-Ayers Annenberg Documents! It is not news to anyone in Illinois that Chicago school reform has been spotty. Why else is one of Barack Obama's radical political allies from way back, um "spiritual advisers", the Rev. and state... [Read More]

Comments

JM hanes

I suspect that whoever showed up with a truck first probably took possession of the files -- and made arrangements for their "preservation" by the library, It would look like a perfectly normal transaction designed to protect [wink,nod] the record -- which might even have originally been intended or expected by the "donor" to remain conveniently unprocessed till the '08 elections were over, if not permanently.

The idea that a successor organization would transfer ownership of would likely be very useful records in their possession strikes me as unlikely, but that doesn't qualify as a particularly well informed opinion. Even if they were hard pressed for space, a transfer wouldn't make much sense unless it included ongoing access. OTOH, some sort of access could conceivably be a reason for the processing which clearly occurred, but which perhaps was not intended to facilitate public access to the pile -- something of which the librarian Kurtz dealt might not have been aware, if she were not really in the loop.

Just thinking out loud and enjoying the coolest part of the southern day. Good morning to all (including Elliott who seems to have gone missing!) and Ciao.

Elliott

Still here, and there.

Good morning, JMH and early rising crew.

pagar

Good Morning to All!

Here's hoping we have another exciting day with more NoObama news.

clarice

Good morning--toothache kept me awake and I was grateful for all the late late night, early early morning company here.

Cecil Turner

This is hilarious, and eerily reminiscent of the Swift Vet coverage: the MSM trying to spike a story--until forced to cover it--and the very coverup adding fuel to the fire. Having the media in the tank for a particular party or candidate is inimical to the democratic process . . . and the voters understand this viscerally. Besides, nobody likes being manipulated by "their betters." I predict the MSM's lack of curiousity on some of Obama's less-than-attractive features is going to blow up on them, here and elsewhere.

Chuck C

At this point, I think it would be better if the records are not released. My guess is they are being given a thorough scrub down as we speak. 132 boxes will turn into 132 pages. In Chicago, you can't win against the Democrat Political Machine.

On a side note, I am guessing there will be a mysterious hut fire in Nairobi and Obama's brother "George" will become unaccessible as well. The only evidence left behind will be the crust remnants from a Chicago style deep dish pizza.

Pofarmer

Ya know, according to an article linked in another thread(I could be more vague, but, heh.)anyway, the main function of the CAC was funneling money to Local School Board races. 150 million is an awful lot of money for electing school board members.

Jane

My goodness you guys are busy in the middle of the night!

BumperStickerist

It's at times like this that I miss Mike Royko.
-

Semanticleo

I guess Bush is going to agree to a TIMETABLE (GRRRRRR!)for a 2011 withdrawal from Iraq.

Kevin Drum has some interesting thoughts.


"This is very good news for Democrats. It means that our eventual withdrawal from Iraq will not only be a bipartisan action, it will have been the creation of a Republican president. This is going to make it almost impossible for conservatives to ramp up any kind of serious stab-in-the-back narrative against anti-war liberals.


Basic Obama spin: "I'm glad to see that President Bush has finally come around to my view etc. etc." This ought to be a big win for him: he visits Iraq, meets with Nouri al-Maliki, gets Maliki's endorsement for a near-term troop withdrawal, and then gets to applaud as President Bush signs on."

Wonder what Cap'n Ahab is gonna say?

rhodeymark

It's not like they wasted all the money. The docs said they transferred the princely sum of $50k to the succeeding organization. Turning nine figures (poof!) into five - keep the Change (You Can Believe In).

Captain Hate

Having the media in the tank for a particular party or candidate is inimical to the democratic process . . . and the voters understand this viscerally.

One of the bigger dangers of a donk controlled government, particularly with a stacked Supreme Court, would be that a national "shield law" that the MSM has been stumping for would be passed. It's hard to believe that their coverage could be any worse with that in place, but I can do without finding that out.

Marilyn J

The "timetable" is dependent on conditions on the ground. So basically no real timetable. Plus Iraq is old news anyway. Iraq is low on issue list, plus Barack already lost on the surge point, so he won't bring it up.

Russia is up next. And who is best to confront that problem a seasoned war vet or a failed community activist?

Fat Man

The records are not being scrubbed -- they have been shredded, and the shredded stuff was burned.

The Other Ed

I'm amused to see the hysteria over records that you don't even know contain anything of any interest. What, the kerning on the Obama Birth Certificate didn't work out for you?

Ranger

I'm amused to see the hysteria over records that you don't even know contain anything of any interest. What, the kerning on the Obama Birth Certificate didn't work out for you?

Posted by: The Other Ed | August 21, 2008 at 08:56 AM

And I am amused to see how the same people who see an evil intent behind everything one party does, can turn around and see nothing wrong with documents that were available for public research suddenly withdrawn and hidden from public view when a reporter from a conservative publication is granted access to them. No, I can see how that wouldn't raise any questions at all in somebody's mind (as long as you have the correct ideological filter in place).

willis

"I'm amused to see the hysteria over records that you don't even know contain anything of any interest..."

Glad to see we can provide you with a little entertainment Ed. If the hysteria bothers you just release the records. Surely, they've been sanitized by now, what with them being in the possession of far-left progressive Chicago democrats. What can you lose?

The Ace

This is very good news for Democrats

Hilarious.

Except for the 5+ years of on the record comments saying they were "tricked" into voting for the war in the first place.

And, except for the 1+ years of on the record comments saying not only would "the surge" not work, it wasn't working, and trying to cut off funding for it.

You people are an embarrassment to anyone with an actual brain.

Pofarmer

I'm amused to see the hysteria over records that you don't even know contain anything of any interest. What, the kerning on the Obama Birth Certificate didn't work out for you?

I would simply like to note that a non-forged birth certificate has not yet been produced.

The Ace

This is going to make it almost impossible for conservatives to ramp up any kind of serious stab-in-the-back narrative against anti-war liberals

Is this what you simpletons tell yourselves every morning to pretend your ideas are popular with the average American or something?

Semanticleo

"Hilarious."

*nervous laughter track*

Pofarmer

One of the bigger dangers of a donk controlled government, particularly with a stacked Supreme Court, would be that a national "shield law" that the MSM has been stumping for would be passed. It's hard to believe that their coverage could be any worse with that in place, but I can do without finding that out.

Add in the fairness doctrine and gets spookier yet.

Appalled

Semanticleo:

A timetable agreed to by both sides under the circumstances is actually a very nice thing. It probably binds Obama to staying until the close of the period, if things are not so bad that it is generating stories in the US. It binds McCain to leaving at the close of the period, if Iraq has settled down (like it seems to be doing). And nobody can really complain because this has been agreed to by old Mr. Steadfast himself.

As for the politics? I think this actually takes Iraq off the table in the campaign. That has benefits for both sides. Obama wins as his campaign can focus on the economy and domestic concerns. McCain wins, to a certain extent, because the consequences of his bellicose foreign policy beliefs will not be in the news every day.

So -- both campaigns can claim victory. Iraq can claim victory. And the president can puzzle out how he manged to get something right for a change.

michaelt

tic,

There is a bit of difference between saving the patient and then leaving, and abandoning the patient (in a closet, perhaps) to fend for itself.

Pofarmer

See, Ace, leaving after we've won, is analogous to cutting and running in the middle to the avg Lefty.

Oh, and did I mention the Broken Military?

MikeS

Annenberg/Obamagate has taught us a lot about Obama, even before we have seen the records.
We have learned that Obama will try to deceive, misdirect, and stonewall us. That is awful, but not as awful as his policy prescriptions.

The Ace

This is going to make it almost impossible for conservatives to ramp up any kind of serious stab-in-the-back narrative against anti-war liberals

Really?

The Senate rejected Democratic- backed legislation that calls for U.S. troops to be withdrawn from Iraq just hours after a House panel approved a plan to bring the troops home. ... Bush met today with Iraq's Vice President Adil abdel Mahdi at the White House, where he told the Iraqi leader that U.S. troop reinforcements will ``give leaders such as yourself the opportunity to do the hard work of reconciliation.''

In liberal land I guess the saying goes, we were wrong before we were right!

Or something.

The Ace

*nervous laughter track*


Don't worry clown, you don't have an answer.

Semanticleo

"both campaigns can claim victory"

Do you think the negotiated deal trades troop immunity for repayment to US? IOW, the $79 Billion (Oil budget surplus) tax increase for the average american?

Charlie (Colorado)

So -- both campaigns can claim victory. Iraq can claim victory. And the president can puzzle out how he manged to get something right for a change.

And you guys can keep averting your eyes from things like the "What Bush did right" newsweek cover. And Bush's popularity increasing again. And try not tto think of whether you're really going to be able to make a government shutdown over preventing oil drilling look like a good thing.

Above all, don't wonder how it is that simpleton managed to generally have his way with you for eight years.

Semanticleo

"that simpleton managed to generally have his way with you for eight years."

I don't wonder, what, with the impressive list of enablers who've kept him right where they want. (useful idiot.)

Great Banana

Do you think the negotiated deal trades troop immunity for repayment to US?

You mean troop immunity from Iraqi prosecution I assume - since troops aren't immune from prosecution under the UCMJ? I doubt it - I certainly hope they would never do that and can't imagine they would.


IOW, the $79 Billion (Oil budget surplus) tax increase for the average american?

What? It's a tax increase to U.S. taxpayers now in your mind for the U.S. not to simply take another country's natural resources?

I would love for Iraq to pay more to the U.S. to cover our expenses, but your use of language is silly.

Great Banana

Add me to the impressive list of enablers - although I must confess, Bush has done a lot of things I disagree with. Unfortunatley for people like Cleo, it only counts if I disagree with Bush in the same way he disagrees with Bush.

In other words, in a leftist's mind I am a Bushbot b/c I don't spout the left line, even as I disagree strenuously with Bush from the right (i.e., Harriet Meiers, Immigration Reform, No Child Left Behind, Medicare Plan B, Campaign Finance Reform, failure to secure borders, etc.).

Imagine that.

Appalled

Charlie:

Yes, I will be enjoying that budget deficit and debt and dollar in the dumpster (most all due to funding Iraq wars and tax cuts and perscription drug benefits) for years and years to come.

Jane

Obama wins as his campaign can focus on the economy and domestic concerns

Not sure that's gonna help him too much. He's getting creamed on infanticide, he's hiding from drilling, he's dreaming about a single payer health insurance plan, the Ayers stuff is rising to the surface and it's becoming clear he would tax us into oblivion. I suspect that's the last thing his campaign wants to talk about.

The only thing he's got is all that hopey changey stuff. And I think that's run its course.

GMax

Can anyone explain to me why unless you are traveling abroad, that you should give a fig about the dollar being lower in value today or tomorrow? So freakin what?

If it triggers a bunch of exports from here to there and reduces the trade deficit, is that a good thing or a bad thing?

How does it impact you individually?

Danube of Thought

"Wonder what Cap'n Ahab is gonna say?"

I think McCain will say "Barack Obama introduced legislation which, had it passed, would have required all US troops to be out of Iraq by March, 2008. If Barack Obama's legislation had passed, the US would have lost a war it is now going to win, with catastrophic results for Iraqis and the entire Middle East. And to this day, Barack Obama has never acknowledged the success of the Surge, and has never identified victory as his goal in Iraq. He lacks the judgment to be commander-in-chief."

M. Simon

I'm amused to see the hysteria over records that you don't even know contain anything of any interest. What, the kerning on the Obama Birth Certificate didn't work out for you?

Posted by: The Other Ed

Hiding stuff always makes it more interesting. I thought Democrats knew that. Been following the Edwards saga lately?

However, there are enough of the records cached to create a very smokey fire. Then the speculation will begin. The speculation will always be worse than the truth. Because you can make shit up.

pagar

The enablers who are most responsible for Pres Bush, IMO are the Democrat political leaders, they could have ran Americans who believed in America, instead they ran John Kerry. Now they have apparently found someone who likes America even less. Someone, who like John Kerry, believes "We cannot Win"

kim

Heh, Semi, it was bait and switch. You were baited with an unwinnable war, then when you committed to an extreme anti-war candidate, poof, the war goes away. Suckers.
===================================

Appalled

GMax:

It's inflationary -- and if you hadn't npoticed, the inflation indicators have been a little 70s-like lately.

plutosdad

I would think that Democrats upset at the President invoking presidential privilege would be all over Daley/Ayers/Obama and angry at Obama for allowing this coverup. Isn't the coverup worse than the crime? Don't the people have a right to know? What about all those slogans I keep hearing from the Left when it's dirt on Republicans they want?

M. Simon

dollar in the dumpster

You aren't keeping up my man.

Dollar Up Gold Down

“The U.S. dollar has recently begun to show initial signs of strength as the fundamental picture for the dollar has improved substantially in recent weeks, Goldman Sachs reports, adding that “as the dollar is now expected to strengthen…we are lowering our gold price forecast.”

kim

The way Obama has handled crises within his campaign does not auger well for any administration he might head. An executive would deal swiftly and definitively with things like Wright, COLB, and Ayers. That he has merely hoped to manipulate around the situations is a devastating critique of Operations ability; that he could not foresee that these things might become problems is a fatal condemnation of his Executive capacity.

What a big time loser. Oops, hush your mouth, kim, for at least another week.
=================================

plutosdad

"here are enough of the records cached to create a very smokey fire"

I would not be surprised if there is literally a fire. It would not be the first time records got caught on fire that helped protect politicians in Illinois:

http://cms.firehouse.com/web/online/News/Chicago-Fire-Department-Says-Burn-Patterns-Point-To-Human-Cause-Of-Deadly-High-Rise-Fire-/46$32244

bio mom

I don't thing the trade deficit or the value of the dollar really resonates with the American electorate as a voting issue.

sbw

Appalled: dollar in the dumpster

Appalled, you have poor data, and a very strange ledger:
-- The dollar index closed at an eleven month high against other currencies.
-- And you do not factor in the real costs of Saddam's proven support of exporting terror, the real costs of the failing attempts to box him in, the potential costs of increasing instability in the middle east, the... oh, what's the point in continuing to list how we're better off. You're wrong.


Jane

And to this day, Barack Obama has never acknowledged the success of the Surge

DOT,

He acknowledged it yesterday to the VFW.

"Let's be clear, our troops have completed every mission they've been given," Mr. Obama said at the Veterans of Foreign Wars convention in Orlando, Fla., where the likely Democratic presidential nominee courted military voters who are expected to play a pivotal role in several swing states. "They have created the space for political reconciliation."

LUN via Glenn

sbw

Appalled: the inflation indicators have been a little 70s-like lately.

Sigh. Wrong, again. M2 Growth Suggests 1970s Inflation Won't Return

How many fish are there in this barrel?

M. Simon

Kim says:

What a big time loser. Oops, hush your mouth, kim, for at least another week.

Doesn't matter now. If The One is not anointed there will be fires all across America. Certain in Denver.

At this point you could not give the RW the nomination. She will decline the honor.

A.W.

Look, I have about 0% of voting for Obama; I am not a defender of him. But just to play devil's advocate, what do we expect/hope to find here? I mean, if the Daley machine didn't destroy the evidence, what do you think it would show. The challenge doesn't seem to have an overtly radical agenda. Its just obama working with a terrorist, and while that is odious, i doubt this really figured into their work at all.

Am i missing something?

M. Simon

Am i missing something?

Opportunities for speculation. Short Obama. Because the question is: what are they trying to hide?

M. Simon

Am i missing something?

Opportunities for speculation. Short Obama. Because the question is: what are they trying to hide?

hrtshpdbox

"Can anyone explain to me why ...you should give a fig about the dollar being lower in value today or tomorrow?
How does it impact you individually?"

It's just terrible, everything I sell on Ebay seems to get bought by Europeans or Japanese. Sure I'm getting really good bids, but I have to fill out a customs declaration for every package I send overseas!

M. Simon

But just to play devil's advocate, what do we expect/hope to find here?

Obama said at one of the meetings that we should be eating Black Babies not sending them to schools.

Will that do?

M. Simon

But just to play devil's advocate, what do we expect/hope to find here?

Obama said at one of the meetings that we should be eating Black Babies not sending them to schools.

Will that do?

Danube of Thought

"An executive would deal swiftly and definitively with things like..."

I am at a loss to think of a single matter on which Obama has acted either swiftly or decisively. This is a man who gets elected president of the Harvard Law Review, and never publishes a single word. He gets elected to the Illinois legislature and votes "present" 120 times. He gest elected to the US Senate and, after all of 143 days in that body without leaving a single mark, decides he will run for president. What might we expect of him were he to attain that office? No one knows...

(I loved the recent suggestion for a McCain slogan, "You can't vote 'present' in the Oval Office.")

hrtshpdbox

"Obama said at one of the meetings that we should be eating Black Babies not sending them to schools."

I heard that, too. That was the same meeting where Michelle said "Get whitey!", right?

pagar

Jane, IMO, Obama should have said. "Let's be clear, our troops have completed every misssion they've been given" in spite of a complete lack of support from myself and every other Democrat political leader. In fact, the enemy could not have asked for better cheerleaders.

As a lifetime member of the VFW, I cannot imagine that he recruited many members to support him in his effort to give away America to the low bidder.

Danube of Thought

Thanks, Jane. I guess he came close there--but you'll never hear him use the words "surge" and "success" in the same sentence. He said at the beginning that it wouldn't work, and he is incapable of acknowledging error.

clarice

A.W. You aARE missing everything> The money was used to fund Fidelistas like Ayres and Maoists like Klonsky in an effort to carry out Ayres plan of turning the public schools into little labs working for the revolution. He said as much in Venezuela in the company of his buddy Chavez.

DebinNC

"Let's be clear, our troops have completed every mission they've been given," Mr. Obama said at the Veterans of Foreign Wars convention...

I doubt vets appreciate Obama implying they were ever unclear.

GMax

Well I would have responded once I knew your boogy man, but I see sbw has done of fine job of raining on your parade.

Since most commodities are priced in dollars, its not immediately even of any inflation concern.

Sorry to ruin your rant, but it just does not matter much, at least in the short to medium run.

Thomas Collins

A.W queried:

"But just to play devil's advocate, what do we expect/hope to find here?"

A.W., with respect to His Oneness, I would guess that we will find what we already know, namely, that throughout his adult life he has used what levers of power he has had to promote leftist causes. I hope the records come out for a reason having nothing to do with His Oneness. The reason is that the records probably contain a treasure trove of information on how leftists currently operate in the context of big city machines. I would like the aspiring poly sci PhDs who actually want to study how politics works (as opposed to those who spout mindless deconstructionist drivel) to have a chance to pore through these records.

sbw

"An executive would deal swiftly and definitively with things like..."

Pfooey on the "executive". Deeper than that is how principles work.

When you master something, it masters you. When you understand why something is important, it becomes integral to your decision-making process. Dealing swiftly springs from solid understanding of core principles that, themselves, spring from both experience and the hard work of imagining consequences by projecting alternative futures.

All this becomes the wellspring of courage.

It is not that Obama has none of this, it is that he has not the practice from whence it is forged. Obama only thinks he does.


Pofarmer

(most all due to funding Iraq wars and tax cuts

Are you gonna continue this lie, Appalled?

Semanticleo

- "I believe setting a deadline for withdrawal would demoralize the Iraqi people, would encourage killers across the broader Middle East, and send a signal that America will not keep its commitment," GWB

I think we should 'stay the course' and follow McCaine's admonition to stay in Iraq for....

100 years.

sbw

"executive"

[Note to Kim: To be clear, Kim, I am not pooh-poohing your point, but standing on your shoulders and sharpening it a little more. ;-) ]

Semanticleo

"What? It's a tax increase to U.S. taxpayers now in your mind for the U.S. not to simply take another country's natural resources?"

GB;

What are you saying? The Iraqi's should pay
NOTHING for the rebuilding of their country?

Who is gonna pay for it? You certainly aren't suggesting the 2nd set of books used to finance this war is going to disappear?

Patrick R. Sullivan

From the grants info it's pretty clear that School Reform is a thriving industry that would be threatened (and the livelihoods of the participants) if the Chicago schools were ever actually reformed.

This is interesting, Catalyst Chicago lists the details of grants made by foundations including the CAC (mid to late 90s). All the usual suspects.

This is also interesting:

COMMUNITY RENEWAL SOCIETY

Since its creation in 1882, CRS has worked to create racially and economically just communities. In addition to publishing Catalyst and The Chicago Reporter, CRS works to provide leadership and support in several areas: public housing, education, criminal justice, anti-racism and anti-violence initiatives. Within these initiatives, CRS networks with congregations, community-based organizations, faith-based groups, civic and philanthropic institutions. Founded as an urban mission, the Community Renewal Society is affiliated with the United Church of Christ.

Patrick R. Sullivan

From the grants info it's pretty clear that School Reform is a thriving industry that would be threatened (and the livelihoods of the participants) if the Chicago schools were ever actually reformed.

This is interesting, Catalyst Chicago lists the details of grants made by foundations including the CAC (mid to late 90s). All the usual suspects.

This is also interesting:

COMMUNITY RENEWAL SOCIETY

Since its creation in 1882, CRS has worked to create racially and economically just communities. In addition to publishing Catalyst and The Chicago Reporter, CRS works to provide leadership and support in several areas: public housing, education, criminal justice, anti-racism and anti-violence initiatives. Within these initiatives, CRS networks with congregations, community-based organizations, faith-based groups, civic and philanthropic institutions. Founded as an urban mission, the Community Renewal Society is affiliated with the United Church of Christ.

Rick Ballard

The withdrawal announcement couldn't have anything to do with the Iraqi provincial elections coming up on October 1st, could it? I mean, the Iraqi pols would never use something like that to advance their own political interests.

Just to mention another not so small aspect.

As far as November goes - the leader of the Copperheads doesn't get a victory lap any more than Pelosi will be cited for "courage" when she caves on offshore drilling.

sbw

Cleo: 100 years.

Cleo, how wasteful! To knowingly take something out of context merely to use it as read meat. How does it feel to know that you are not worth the effort; To know that you stand in the way of understanding and know also that you could care less?

I never professed to understand people... but you I understand even less. To not know what is going on and not care about it is so terribly sad.

Semanticleo

"To not know what is going on and not care about it is so terribly sad.'

Nothin personal. It's just politics.

Grand, ain't it?

Semanticleo

Politics; The manipulation of one's environment.

Danube of Thought

SBW, I for one believe I understand Cleo perfectly. Not a person you want anywhere near you when the going gets tough.

Appalled

sbw:

That was an interesting blog post. The comments, also interesting, take an entirely different view on the matter. (I am rusty on my M2 and M3, so I'll leave that to our host, who does do econ posts from time to time).

Rick Ballard

If you wish to manipulate your environment, Tic, a visit to a proctologist will do wonders for you.

Great Banana

What are you saying? The Iraqi's should pay NOTHING for the rebuilding of their country?

Did you actually read my comment? you said: IOW, the $79 Billion (Oil budget surplus) tax increase for the average american?

To which I said: What? It's a tax increase to U.S. taxpayers now in your mind for the U.S. not to simply take another country's natural resources?

I would love for Iraq to pay more to the U.S. to cover our expenses, but your use of language is silly.

What part don't you understand? I said I would LOVE for Iraq to pay more toward U.S. expenses. I asked if you thought we should just TAKE the money from them - as you seem to imply we do (frankly, I personally would not have a major problem with doing so, but I can imagine the leftoid screams of agony as they cry imperialism, war for oil money, etc.).

Semanticleo

"To which I said: What? It's a tax increase to U.S. taxpayers now in your mind for the U.S. not to simply take another country's natural resources?"

If they don't pay, the American taxpayer pays,
from their WILLING GIFT to the US coffers.

And we got what, in return for our investment?

Semanticleo

"Tic, a visit to a proctologist will do wonders for you."

Thanks, Marmalard.

The Ace

Kevin Drum has some interesting thoughts

No, Kevin Drum has silly, unsupported, partisan thoughts. Which you swallow whole.

I did enjoy this though:


Here is what else we know: We know that the surge is not working, that our mission in Iraq must be changed, and that this war must be brought to a responsible conclusion.”

“We know Iraq's leaders are not resolving their grievances. They are not stepping up to their security responsibilities. They are not improving the daily lives of Iraqis.”
“In January, I introduced a plan that would have already started bringing our troops home and ending this war, with a goal of removing all combat brigades by March 31, 2008. Seventy-eight days ago, President Bush vetoed a bipartisan plan that passed both houses of Congress that shared my goal of changing course and ending this war.”
As we redeploy from Iraq – as I believe we must do – we have to redouble our efforts on all fronts in Afghanistan to ensure we do not lose ground there.”
Obama Statement on Senate Debate Over Redeploying U.S. Troops from Iraq
Wednesday, July 18, 2007

But to simpletons, keeping troops in Iraq until 2011 is a "win" for Odumbo who wanted them all out 3 years earlier.

By the way, clown, why do you think you're attempting to change the subject?

DaMav

Where is the NY Times? The paper that dumps our national security secrets onto the front page of the paper because of the urgency of the "public's need to know"?

I'm guessing that putting information on a publicly funded nonprofit under wraps might be illegal. And it's hard to believe that they got no public funding comingled in a grant driven organization this size.

The library itself might be in violation of its public benefit provisions if it participates in a political coverup. It no doubt has donors as well and should be brought under examination.

The Ace

I think we should 'stay the course' and follow McCaine's admonition to stay in Iraq for....

100 years

McCain said no such thing.

What I find funny is you're posting all of this drivel while being excited to vote for a candidate who: a) proudly proclaimed he would not have voted for the war and did not support it; b) Tried to cut off funing for the war; c) Said "the surge" was not working and could not work; and now d) Is trying to take credit for the victory.

Imbecile, much?

matt

If someone wants the truth, they should be burning up a lot of shoe leather, which doesn't seem to be happening much any more. Find low level staffers, associates, enemies, harry them, get one or two to cooperate; place Obama and Ayers together at specific times and places with a close idea of the agendas, and watch the house of cards start to fall apart.....Journalism 101.

The Ace

This is going to make it almost impossible for conservatives to ramp up any kind of serious stab-in-the-back narrative against anti-war liberals

Laugh out loud funny.

Our troops have performed brilliantly in Iraq, but no amount of American soldiers can solve the political differences at the heart of somebody else's civil war," Obama said. "That's why I have introduced a plan to not only stop the escalation of this war, but begin a phased redeployment that can pressure the Iraqis to finally reach a political settlement and reduce the violence."

The Obama plan offers a responsible yet effective alternative to the President's failed policy of escalation. Realizing there can be no military solution in Iraq, it focuses instead on reaching a political solution in Iraq, protecting our interests in the region, and bringing this war to a responsible end. The legislation commences redeployment of U.S. forces no later than May 1, 2007 with the goal of removing all combat brigades from Iraq by March 31, 2008,

But, he visits Iraq, meets with Nouri al-Maliki, gets Maliki's endorsement for a near-term troop withdrawal,

Too funny.

The Ace

oops, sorry for messing up the link.

Semanticleo

"Not a person you want anywhere near you when the going gets tough."

Someone, somewhere might disagree with you.

Semanticleo

"By the way, clown, why do you think you're attempting to change the subject?"

Ace;

You do realize this is the next in an interminable series of Annennothingberger
threads?

Great Banana

Leo,

Can you answer the question I asked? Should we just take it?

Some people, not you I realize, believed and still believe that it was in the U.S.'s interest to do what has been done in Iraq, and that there is, and will continue to be, a benefit to the U.S. from the U.S. actions in Iraq.

Much like all foriegn policy - the quesiton of what we, the taxpayer gets, is never very crystal clear. We pay out billions in aid to countries all over the world. We station our armed forces all over teh world. We get involved in different military operations - such as Serbia - and we pay.

But, that isn't the question I posed - do you think we should just take that $79 million from the Iraqis? I stated that I would love for them to give the U.S. the $$, I even stated that it would not overly bother me if we just took it (althought that will never happen and would probably by a bad foreign policy decision).

You implied that we should just take the $$. This is the thrid time I am asking you a simple question. Should we just take it? Answer yes or no.

If they don't pay, the American taxpayer pays,from their WILLING GIFT to the US coffers.

That is the difference between a leftist and everyone else. Nobody else believes that the taxes they pay is a WILLING GIFT to the U.S. Gov't. I certainly don't.

And we got what, in return for our nvestment?

I happen to believe that Iraq will end up paying dividend in the future for a long time in terms of peace and stability in the region and the destruction of much of Al Queda. I know you probably don't agree. But, I disagree with the way that billions upon billions are spent elsewhere in the world and even domestically - which you probably agree with and I could ask the same question - what do we get for our investment?

Great Banana

You do realize this is the next in an interminable series of Annennothingberger
threads?

If you don't like the subject matter chosen by the owner of the blog, why come here?

DebinNC

from NRO: Team McCain's excellent reponse to Obama offensive re his houses (LUN)...hehe

royf

I agree Great Banana for instance what exactly has been achieved by the "War on Poverty" except permanent urban ghettos which reliably vote overwhelmingly democrat. A permanent, dependent voter base which never cares what things cost or how they will be paid for.

Semanticleo

"I happen to believe" is your only salient point.

Be more clever in your trappings like "should we just take it from them" to give you something to hang your hat on. Don't insult my intelligence. You seem sincere, otherwise.

"what do we get for our investment?"

Fair question which dovetails nicely with how we measure ROV from Iraq.

Future dividends from investing in people, brings triangulations impossible to track or graph.

One measure is the attitude of the culture
toward the benefactor. Occasionally, the human reaction to outside help hurts National Pride. Resentment over perceived
debt often makes the receiver want to blame
the charitable entity the bad guy.

That could be a factor in Iraq. But, the big difference is that National Pride's fall is exacerbated by an occupier's presence, even if benign, which it is not in Iraq.

Rick Ballard

I wonder if anyone asked Annenberg about what he feels he got for his investment in CAC? Opportunities to fund "lifestyles of the stupid and terroristic" will abound as long as there are trustafarians, so I doubt that was his intent.

I believe that CathyF's illustration of Obama flushing money down the toilet (perhaps with Ayers standing on a flag next to him) would be the tack for McCain to follow. It's going to be amusing to watch Obama lash and flail from this point forward.

He really is a zero.

Charlie (Colorado)

What are you saying? The Iraqi's should pay NOTHING for the rebuilding of their country?

Are you claiming they're not? Got any recent data you'd like to share?

Besides the New York Times, which is just no longer a credible source.

If you google, though, you'll find things like this:


U.S. officials who work with the Iraqis on reconstruction said the Baghdad government has been increasing its capital spending by 30 percent to 35 percent each year since 2006 -- although they added that both governments want to see the pace increased.

The Iraqi government is drafting plans for Iraqi-funded projects to include 1,000 new primary health care centers over the next 10 years, new airports and a major renovation project for downtown Baghdad, the American officials said.

They spoke on condition of anonymity because they did not want to comment on Iraqi government performance.

The officials said the United States has not begun any new reconstruction projects in Iraq since 2004 and that ongoing work is funded by money approved by Congress four years ago.

Emphasis, of course, mine.

Look, Leo, you're not dumb, you're just being a useful idiot. Or maybe not even useful. Read up on what's happening and don't depend on FDL and Kos for your news.

bad

The money was used to fund Fidelistas like Ayres and Maoists like Klonsky in an effort to carry out Ayres plan of turning the public schools into little labs working for the revolution.

That really sucks. Who cares if they can read, write or do arithmatic as long as they grow up to vote the left way. Talk about cynicism.

RichatUF

Appalled-

It's inflationary -- and if you hadn't npoticed, the inflation indicators have been a little 70s-like lately.

Sure they have, keep believing it. see here and here.

Great Banana

Be more clever in your trappings like "should we just take it from them" to give you something to hang your hat on. Don't insult my intelligence. You seem sincere, otherwise.

So, you are afraid to take a position. Much like your preferred candidate adn most libs.

To be quite honest, I have never believed you were sincere in anything you write.

As always, you write something that is not quite a point, then refuse to actually take a position, then write a bunch of gibberish that you think is deep and insightful.

One measure is the attitude of the culture
toward the benefactor. Occasionally, the human reaction to outside help hurts National Pride. Resentment over perceived
debt often makes the receiver want to blame
the charitable entity the bad guy.

And, so? What is your point - that the U.S. should never act b/c it may hurt someone's feelings? Or, should we cut off all welfare in the U.S. b/c the charity hurts the receipient's pride?

But, the big difference is that National Pride's fall is exacerbated by an occupier's presence, even if benign, which it is not in Iraq.

Only in a deranged paranoid america-hater's mind is our presence in Iraq not benign - unless you mean not benign to Saddam Hussein's gov't or Al Queda.

But, it is good that you draw the curtian up now and again and admit your true feelings, so that we remember we aren't dealing with someone of good intentions and sincerity.

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