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October 18, 2008

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kim

There exists in Kansas, the Beecher Bible and Rifle Church, named after Henry Ward Beecher, and celebrating that the pioneers most valued their Bibles, and rifles. There was a simple reason for that; they helped them survive in the wilderness better than any other tools.
===================================

bad

TM that entire article is a hoot. Be sure to catch the part where Bai says HObama lacks the "pathetic neediness" of a Bill Clinton. It's not quite that blatant but if I can spot it I'd bet HillBill can. Anyone know Bill's email?

Page 6

bgates

a sense of continuity and stability that is unavailable in your economic life
Change is Continuity.
Progress is Stability.

memomachine

Hmmmm.

It's like a Marxist trying to figure flyover country.

Or you can take the previous sentence and remove "like" if you'd prefer.

PaulL

Obama needs to use a handgun to blow away a Chicago punk trying to steal his bicycle. It would close the deal.

Drew

You won't hear me say this too often, but I have to agree with Mrs. Clinton's assessment of the "Choosen One!" I guess its hard for a lefty illuminati lawyers to understand that people actually enjoy the simplier things in life, like hunting and fishing. Maybe if we add a chapter or two about hunting or guns to one of their books they might have some clue about what the rest of experience. I don't know how much more disconnected from the american people you can be than Obama.

DebinNC

From Bai's article above: "Instead, in the weeks that followed [his bitter-clinger remarks], white working-class primary voters, not only in industrial states like Pennsylvania but also in rural states like Kentucky and West Virginia, rejected his candidacy by wide margins, and he staggered, wounded, toward the nomination."

Bai makes it sound like Obama was doing fine with blue collar whites until his SF comments were misunderstood by whites in PA, and later in IN, WV, and KY. The opposite is true. Just before Obama's SF foray, the NYT Magazine's Change Makes a Call on Levittown made it clear that Democrats in PA, as they had in NY, CA, TX, and OH preferred Hillary to Obama. By the time of the Levittown piece and SF, it was clear Obama's delegate lead was based largely on suspect caucus wins, and that Hillary was the stronger candidate. Obama's mission in SF was to play the race card making denying him the nomination, even as Hillary's wins mounted, a racial Rubicon the party could not cross. Tossing the incendiary duo of guns and religion to that uber-lefty SF crowd was simply to make the race card slightly more obscure.

Plumber's Pal

Everything with Obama is about money and who has it. He equates class/status with how much money you make and/or how many Ivy League degrees you have. In his world, there cannot be happiness, a sense of fulfillment, or core values without proof of high powered education and lots and lots of money.

In Obama's world, you can't really hold an intelligent position if you can't prove you have the credentials he deems are important, whether money or his view of education. That is why they put Sarah Palin down for having to work her way through college in Idaho. That is why he mocks the idea that a plumber might be able to earn anywhere close to $250,000 a year. He has no respect for those who actually work hard and enjoy a weekend backyard BBQ with hot dogs and beer or a Sunday afternoon watching football with the guys with pizza and beer, rather than champagne and caviar. There are millions in this country who enjoy their lives and don't care about image. Obama is all about image, his own and those who he associates with. My son, who spent 15 years in the restaurant business says Obama probably stiffs the wait staff on tips too.

PapayaSF

Why does Obama insist on linking their importance to economic distress?

Because to a Marxist, everything boils down to economics?

E. Nigma

Yes PapayaSF, it is all economic determinism. That is the clue.

Jim Ryan

Why does Obama insist on linking [the church's] importance to economic distress?

Opiate, masses. He "learned" it in college.

PeterUK

Obama "could somehow erode the tired distinctions between red states and blue ones and appeal to disaffected white men who had written off national Democrats as hopelessly elitist."

Then he goes and trashes "Joe the Plumber".Blue collar workers aren't even allowed to earn as much as the elite.

PeterUK

"Because to a Marxist, everything boils down to economics?"

And class.Obama can't handle people who won't stay in their box.

Plumber's Pal

Do you really think Obama has any respect for the guy who works on the production line of an automobile manufacturer, even if he is making $40 an hour and with overtime will bring home close to a 100 thou a year but might only have a 10th grade education? Does he have any respect for the carpenter, plumber, electrician or the mechanic or the woman who does laundry or cleans houses to put her kids thru school. Would he have any respect for someone like my m-i-l who at one time supported 5 kids on what she made tying fishing flies at a 1/4 cent a piece? Better to do as his intelligent, multi-lingual college educated mother did, go on welfare and food stamps, because God forbid, she would take a job beneath her.

Plumber's Pal

And does he have any respect at all for those who choose the military? He considers them the dregs of society who couldn't make it in the civilian world.

Captain Hate

He has no respect for those who actually work hard

That's because there's no evidence that he's ever worked hard to accomplish anything. I've never seen such a blank slate running for a high office in my life. I've gone from feeling somewhat uncomfortable about him to actively disliking him and the people that support him, including some immediate family members to whom I'll be merciless if he gets elected and turns out as bad as I fear. Let them pay the extra taxes for his bullshit transfer of income from the productive to the fucking deadbeats. Let them get blown up by a suitcase nuke from Iran when they get a green light with his feckless ventures into Pahkeestahn looking for a worthless symbolic POS who's dead in a cave somewhere. You want this empty suit, then pay the full freight. I'll do my part to defeat him but I'm generally disgusted by the Obots and their complete inability to look at their candidate objectively.

ROA

Every time he talks about being on food stamps when he was a child it pisses me off. Not because I think food stamps are inherently bad, but because his mother sponged off hard working people rather than find a job when she was working on her PhD. I don’t think that is not an attitude we want to encourage.

Joe M. Hanes

TM:

"The initial criticism of Obama's comment centered on the point that rural voters may actually believe in guns and God independently of their economic circumstances."

That would be criticism from right, of course, notwithstanding Jake Tapper, who is something of a media outlier. In Democratic circles, everything is always about money. Any Ivy Leaguer can tell you that the pursuit of "happiness" was just the Framers' PC way of saying the pursuit of "property." Even the lefty view that Republican DNA includes a conspiratorial (felonious, racist, militant) code book which allows them to manipulate a constituency of "low information" rubes derives from that foundational belief.

Where money is the measure, the poor (i.e. anyone who makes less than $250K/year) are necessarily unhappy. Where it is the answer, there's only one possible reason that bitter clingers could possibly vote for Republicans, when it is so clearly in their putative economic interest to vote for Democrats. They are being duped by cynically persuasive Republicans who pretend that money isn't everything in order to divide the financial happiness pie amongst themselves alone. This ulterior assault on the American dream is not just hypocritical, it's downright unpatriotic don't you see? In the Democratic version of reality, there are only two classes of Republicans: if Joe the Plumber is not a stooge, then he's an operative -- and thus fair game either way. The divide is no less clear on the morally superior Democratic side, of course, where caretakers tend to the helpless instead.

In what I see as a disturbing parallel, it's the depressingly similar language of class oriented political divisions now creeping into the polemics of Conservative pundits like David Brooks that I find most noxious. Substitute our (benevolent) intellectual betters for our (despotic) corporate overlords, and voilá, you have the Democratic cognoscenti and the masses. It's a form of class warfare either way.

Joe M. Hanes

For the purists among us, make that the Founders, not the Framers above. I developed the unfortunate habit of using them interchangeably so long ago that I rarely notice the sin till after I've committed it.

Joe

Then why is this elitist jack-ass (democrat donkey) going to win?
That's what I find most frustrating.
Hopefully the polls are being misled and regular people won't actually vote for the 'Black dude' just because he's a 'Black dude'.
I wouldn't mind him taking the heat for the economic s**t-storm that's been brewing and will come to pass if his socialist economic policies are enacted - the only things I'm really worried about are the Supreme Court nominations coming due in the next four years.
In one of his two auto-biographies, "The Audacity of Hope" Ob states "Ultimately, though, I have to side with Justice Breyer's view of the Constitution - that it is not a static but rather a living document, and must be read in the context of an ever-changing world."
Meaning that interpretting what the Constitution says is up for grabs by anyone he nominates for Supreme Court.

Syl

Economic determinism. Fine.

The problem WE have right now is that EVERYBODY is missing the point about Joe the Plumber. The Dems seem to be winning the argument because (a)plumbers don't make 250 grand and (b)most people are worrying about getting through today, not thinking about buying a company tomorrow.

And WE don't counter with HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE JOBS AT A SMALL BUSINESS that may be gone tomorrow because your boss's taxes were raised.

There's only two weeks left and all I seem to be hearing is words words words about Obama's connections (not enough time to get that all out there) and about how wrong Dems are in their outlook (that ain't going to change a thing in two weeks).

Focus, please.


Old Dad

BHO's "bitter, clingy" nonsense suggests the typical naive arrogance of a Marxist.

The better answer, when asked about our fellow Americans on any point, is "how the hell woould I know? Let me go ask a couple neighbors, but I don't think I'll get much help."

His arrogance is astounding. My Old Dad's advice was more to the point. No value judgment, just pure actionable information. "Be careful, he'll (or she'll) kick your ass." Guns might factor in.

PeterUK

I think you have to look to Zimbabwe for the model of the elitist Marxist.

Plumber's Pal

Syl: I don't think the left is winning on the Joe the Plumber issue. Barone and many others are asking if he represents the game changer for McCain.

Ann

Joe the plumber is on Fox. And he loves the BENGALS, I knew he was a great guy :)

Ann

He says he is ex-military, too. :) No wonder the left hates him.

ben

"The Dems seem to be winning the argument because (a)plumbers don't make 250 grand and (b)most people are worrying about getting through today, not thinking about buying a company tomorrow."

I don't think the Dems are winnng the Joe argument. Joe is a problem for Obama because it shows his disconnect with white blue collar voters in general. And even people who don't make 250 k or own a company would like to.

ben

McCain is hanging around, as they say, he is between 2 points and 7 points down depending on the tracking polls. Gallup has him down 2 or 4 depending on the method, Reuters 4 and Rasmussen 5....Survey USA has McCain up by 2 in Florida. All this despite Obama's huge advertising buy and media support. McCain needs a break of some kind, but he is definitely still alive.

Boatbuilder

I don't think the Dems are winning on Joe the Plumber, either. But Syl is right about everybody missing the point.
Why can't McCain say--if you raise taxes on your boss, do you think he's going to give you a raise? If you raise taxes on the corporation you work for, do you think they are going to hire more people? Or lay somebody off and cut overtime?
This isn't rocket science, it's common sense.

jimmyk

Do you really think Obama has any respect for the guy who works on the production line of an automobile manufacturer

Only if he is angry and favors penalizing the wealthy, and thinks America and capitalism are terrible. If he's happy to be earning a good living, thankful for living in America, and hoping to better himself in a land of opportunity, Obama will ridicule him.

Plumber's Pal

I AM JOE THE PLUMBER.

Joe the Plumber is an attitude, not a biographical statement.

Boatbuilder

Youk goes deep! And I can watch the game instead of "House of Payne."
My blood pressure is gradually coming down to a tolerable level.

Joe

It should go without saying that increasing taxes on a corporation only causes the cost of production to increase. That translates to a cost increase to the consumer not the corporation.

Rick Ballard

Boatbuilder,

You're definitely on the right track. I think digging just a little deeper - "Senator Government, why should I even try to buy a business if my profit is going to be "spread around" by people who couldn't run a profitable lemonade stand in Death Valley?"

HObama the commie is a hope thief not a hope bringer, and his "change" isn't going to be for the better.

What do you have against striving to succeed Senator HObama? Not all of us are capable of butt kissing on the level which your life demonstrates. What kind of affirmative action do you have available for just plain hard working and talented individuals who are not skilled at the leftist ass kissing which has elevated you to your current position?

Now, that might need a little work for consumption by the general public but I think I have the right direction.

DebinNC

The Obama ad of the moment in my part of NC is the one where he claims he's fighting for the average guy worried about losing his job, and not "for corporations". I hope others immediately think of what happened to Joe the Plumber once Obama chose to enter his life uninvited.

bmeuppls

The game isn't on here. Fark Turner. His staff evidently doesn't just eat buffalo, they are buffalo'd by technical issues.

Give a democrat socialist a problem, and they will make it worse....

ARRRRGGH.....

Boatbuilder

You can't win by trying to argue that it's not fair to raise taxes on people making more than most other people--not in a tight economy, anyway. Once you start talking about fairness you're done.
That's why you've got to point out the obvious (which is apparently not so obvious). Money doesn't grow on trees--wealth is created by people trying to get wealthy. Like you and me.

Captain Hate

Screwing the rich is the ultimate trickle-down; of misery.

bmeuppls

What I don't get is why folks like Buffet, Turner, etc are all for Obama.

Seems to me that, following the Chavez/Putin/insert leftist name here example, as soon as Obama is well into the conversion of capitalism to socialism, the next group after the middle class up on the chopping block will be the oligarchs. He'll just trump up some charges, and voila, they will all be in jail (with the slobbering masses applauding) and their money and property confiscated.

Which is why I have a hard time buying into the "Buffet is all that and a bag of chips" argument. If he is so smart, how come he can't see what's coming? Or is he just delusional, too...

First they came for the plumbers should be food for thought for the Buffets of the world, but like usual, their hubris (I'm too important/smart/rich) overrides their inner voice of doubt...

Plumber's Pal

You don't make poor people wealthy by making wealthy people poor.

richard mcenroe

People like Buffet, Turner, Kennedy, etc., already have their money hidden outside the country where Barry can't get at it. That's why you have so many billionaire types supporting the estate tax. Keeps the peasants in their place and it ain't gonna cost their families a dime...

Boatbuilder

Several years ago George Mitchell and the Dems pushed through a steep "luxury tax" on things like yachts, luxury cars and the like. It was eventually repealed at the urging of Mitchell, because it pretty much killed one of Maine's major industries--small-scale boatbuilding. That's what happens to the "small businesses" that Obama and Joe are so solicitious about.

The problem is that most people don't think about this stuff until it happens, or somebody like Ronald Reagan keeps telling them.

I still can't believe John McCain let this pass in the last debate. I'm not sure he gets it, unfortunately.

Laura

bmeuppls,
you need to read Liberal Fascism and the role large corporations have to play in the slide to socialism. They can suggest and implement regulations to the government that small companies cannot touch. Indeed they become arms of the governments programs in many ways. They don't want really free markets, too much competition. It's called corporatism. Buffet is sort of a special class of that, he won't be touched by any of obama's socialist policies. The second point about Buffett is he knows better than the rest of us suckers. Seems to happen to most of the really rich like Buffett and Gates they end up not believing in the system that created them and think the government has to mandate our every choice.

bmeuppls

No, but you do make your compadres wealthy - til they can no longer further "the cause" and then they are thrown under the bus, too.

bmeuppls

Ahh, I've read it. But eventually all the oligarchs fall to the state...

And in the "New World Order" that they are discussing, off-shore will not be untouchable. That is the fallacy to which the Buffets fall prey.

It's the old socialist disease "it'll never happen to me." Til it does. Socialism is just a train station on the railway to communism.

laura

And they charged Bush with hubris.

Charlie (Colorado)

You know, there was a big fuss about the definition of "rich" some time ago. It struck me at the time that the real definition of "rich" is when you have so much money that the Obama tax plans etc won't actually affect your lifestyle appreciably.

bgates

To be fair, Laura, Barack Obama has made startlingly few missteps as a presidential candidate.

Besides the "bitter clingers" remark, sticking up for Wright days before disowning him, ditto for Jim Johnson, not the Rezko or Pfleger I knew either, "you're likable...enough", Iran is/isn't a threat, meeting Iran's leaders without preconditions (? preparations? preconceived notions? I can't remember), quietly clasping his hands during the pledge, raising taxes for "fairness", "spreading the wealth around", "I'd never dream of taking your guns, and we'll probably be 2 votes short in the Senate anyway unless we can knock off Liddy Dole", "typical white person", the Great Seal of Obama, I'm reneging on NAFTA (psst - not really) and unilaterally invading Pakistan (psst - really!) -
that's about all I can think of right now.

Mustang0302

What I don't get is why folks like Buffet, Turner, etc are all for Obama.

In one word: Guilt.

Laura

Actually I was thinking of the Buffett types.

Obama is so many different people I can't quite figure out which vice he suffers from the most. I think Belmont said it best several months ago when he called Obama a cipher and wondered if we would ever find out who sent him.

Plumber's Pal

Whew! Read it all, here is a snippet:

From Iowahawk, who is pulling no punches:

Politicians — Sarah Palin, Bill Clinton, et al. — obviously have to put up with some rude, nasty shit, but it’s right there in the jobs description. Joe the Plumber is different. He was a guy tossing a football with his kid in the front yard of his $125,000 house when a politician picked him out as a prop for a 30 second newsbite for the cable news cameras. Joe simply had the temerity to speak truth (or, if you prefer, an uninformed opinion) to power, for which the politico-media axis apparently determined that he must be humiliated, harassed, smashed, destroyed. The viciousness and glee with which they set about the task ought to concern anyone who still cares about citizen participation, and freedom of speech, and all that old crap they taught in Civics class before politics turned into Narrative Deathrace 3000, and Web 2.0 turned into Berlin 1932.0.

Godwin’s Law! you say? if the jackboot fits, wear it.

Are you a Joe? Say it proud. Leave it on every goddamn newspaper comment section and online forum. Let these pressroom and online thugs know you won’t stay silent when they try to destroy the life of a private citizen for speaking his mind — because for every one of them, there are a million Joe Wurzelbachers. And for that we should all be thankful.

bad

bgates

Thank you for that reminder. Hobama is a paragon is he not?

bgates

Bad, I forgot to mention the failure to even pretend Hillary was being considered for vp, and the (ongoing?) refusal to pay her campaign debt. I don't think those are missteps that bother swing voters at all, but without them, matters would be worse.

bmeuppls

Did anyone see any campaign filings for the end of September? I know that he's still raising $$, but he seems to spend it faster than it's coming in.

I have heard rumors that O! is buying ads on credit and is out of advertising dough. All that is left is money for the GOTV.... and we thought that credit was frozen.

Ann hearts Joe Plumber

It struck me at the time that the real definition of "rich" is when you have so much money that the Obama tax plans etc won't actually affect your lifestyle appreciably.

Charlie, that is truly brilliant. You should right an article and title it "You Can't Touch This" (MC Hammer) lyrics

Of course, you will be called a racist but what the heck, we are all racists now. I actually have come to the conclusion that I just might call anybody that disagrees with me a liar, a sexist, and a racist. I figure if we all do it, it will not mean anything after awhile and we can all get back to being serious adults.

bad

Ann

I am a racist plumber...lol

Elliott

Ann,

What did you think of the Project Runway finale?

bmeuppls

It struck me at the time that the real definition of "rich" is when you have so much money that the Obama tax plans etc won't actually affect your lifestyle appreciably.

At first. But once the rich are in jail and their dough is confiscated, it will affect them. The biggest fallacy about socialism is in the beliefs of the system to deliver fairness. The mob envisions itself as the recipient of the goodies, the rich believe they are part of the inner circle and immune, and they both find out they were lied to.

The true evil of socialism is that it is a false receptacle for everyone to put their vices into (envy, greed, guilt) with hopes that they are absolved of the their vices "for the common good." That is why religion and socialism do not co-exist well. It co-opts the functions of religion.

PaulL

Sarah was pretty good in the opening sketch of Saturday Night Live. The material wasn't that great, hence only "pretty good." She certainly didn't do herself any harm.

Ann hearts Joe Plumber

**right**should be write..duh

bad, You are a badass lying, sexist, racial ahole. ::big grin and a wink::

Elliot: I haven't watched Project Runaway for awhile until this afternoon I saw the final with Leanne, Kenley and Korto. I thought Gunn as a finalist judge was like, you know, ACORN in Ohio. But when I looked at the collections I thought Korto had the goods. I would wear her designs. However, Leanne seemed to put more effort into the final show and I could see why they were swayed. Her garments really moved on the runway even though the fabrics were grand the colors were horrible. How many women would pick those colors. Her sewing ability obviously stood out, her appearance did not. Would you go to a cosmetic salesperson that had no make-up on. Would you ask a designer to design your clothes that looked liked they got outta bed and their own clothes didn't fit. I could go on and bore everyone to bed, but I have a Michael Kors weaved leather bag with gold links that will keep me from ever saying anything bad about him. :) Please tell me what you think.

Elliott

To my mind, Leanne had only two pieces that turned out well. I thought the vest-trouser ensemble that earned so much praise was a disaster. Since the viewers hated Kenley, the producers* were never going to let her win and I really thought that Korto would prevail when her last two hastily made pieces turned out as well as they did. I expect Leanne's sustainable materials nonsense carried far too much weight with the deciders as Saturn's been advertising its hybrid on the show all season. In short, a travesty. Just like last season.
______________________
*It says at the end, as with most reality shows, that judges make decisions not only based on "scores" but in consultation with the producers.

bad

Neo, thanks for the link to the Obama praise of Ayers' book.

The review was part of a column called “Mark My Word,” in which Chicago notables praise their favorite current books.

He didn't just praise it, it was in his list of favorites.

bad

DOH!! It was **LISTED** as his favorite.

Ann hearts Joe Plumber

"I thought the vest-trouser ensemble that earned so much praise was a disaster. "

Elliott, Then we agree, that a high waisted white pant and a pointed ugly top that doesn't even make a super model look good...might not be something marketable. Ha Ha

I loved the last minute Korto beige dress with the one strap in the back dress..last minute brilliance that they didn't notice.

MayBee

I thought LeeAnn's collection looked like the fashion shows they do for employees to see the new uniforms for a cruise line. Too much of the same color combo and waves, over and over.
The craftsmanship was lovely, though.

Korto seemed to have a line people would wear all ready to go. She would have killed selling that on bluefly.

PrestoPundit

You've got to admit, Obama is a master of the schtick he learned studying Saul Alinsky, "Western Marxism", Critical Legal Studies, and all the rest, isn't he?

matt

I think the issue is about people who have had to scrabble hard in life, rather than have their path greased. Having to scrimp and save and pray you make next month's rent and all the rest builds character. I just don't see that in either barack or Michelle Obama's hagiographies. It's all a liberal fantasy now playing out with the happy ending at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

I learned a lot from my parents, and much more in some ways from my mother, who was placed in an orphanage @ 1931 or so at the age of 6 or 8. On her own at 14, picking potatos, blueberries, trying anything to make ends meet. She never stopped reading or trying to improve herself and ended up a secretary at 18 at CBS in the middle of WWII. As life progressed, she read more psychology and philosophy tham many PhD's, and "got it" more importantly. She never gave up. Never compromised her principles, and ended up very successful.

Those people were the better part of an entire generation, but in a way they failed. They gave their own children everything, and those children then enjoyed a prosperity never seen before in history. They then begat probably the most spoiled generation in history, which has lost its values and its integrity. Principle became a thing of the past. Relativism and deconstruction entered the vocabulary.

Barack is, unfortunately, the paragon of that generation. And we are now facing a challenge almost as great as the 1930's. The "New Mercantilism" proposed by the Democrats really isn't that far from Smoot Hawley, and instead of learning from the mistakes of deregulation and easy credit and decoupling risk/reward, they want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Good luck trying to get these knuckleheads to

a - to understand the problem

b - to craft a good solution.

It's sophistry on a grand scale.

PeterUK

There seems to be some misunderstanding of Socialism.Socialism does not seek to ameliorate poverty,socialism strives represents poverty.
There is absolutely no advantage to socialism if Joe the Plumber climbs into the middle class and away from the tentacles of the socialist state.
The idea behind Obama's tax credits is to draw everyone into the arms of the state.Someone said that it was a "way of giving welfare without shame".This ignores the fact that benefits are means tested,further paying tax,having it processed by bureaucrats then have some of your own money handed back is the ultimate socialist dependency.
The bottom line,socialism immiserates simply because, without poverty there is no need for socialism.

M. Simon

Why can't guns and church simply be important to these people because they are? Why does Obama insist on linking their importance to economic distress?

Because he is a Marxist?

SunnyDay

So, looks like Colin Powell is going to finally get to be SecDef. Why else would he turn on his friend McCain. pfffffffffffft.

Sue

Why else would he turn on his friend McCain.

I think the answer to that is obvious. He is voting on Obama based on the color of his skin. Personally, I haven't liked Powell since he allowed that fat turd we affectionately named UGO to let the Plame fiasco play out in order to damage Cheney.

Sue

McCain's negativity is "troublesome" to Powell. However, Obama gets a pass.

Captain Hate

The more I learn about Powell the more I think he's the biggest back-stabber in the world. To think that I used to hold that thin-skinned spiteful cretin in high regard is embarrassing.

kim

I don't know why Powell's perfidy isn't troublesome to himself. Or to Obama. Can't Obama see he was just waiting to see which way the wind blows? Maybe he does, and Powell is going to be surprised at his fate in an Obama administration.
=======================================

Sue

Walking a tight rope, the F&F host says. Ain't that the truth? Powell is walking a line. Why don't they just ask him if he is voting for Obama because he is a black man? His other reasons are bunk.

SunnyDay

The general public won't see it - you pretty much have to know what went on behind the scenes to know what a snake in the grass Powell is.

hrtshpdbox

Powell objects to the choice of Palin, and to John McCain's use of Bill Ayers as a campaign issue. Obama is "transformational". It's baloney, in my opinion - Powell was never going to support a Republican again after the way he perceives he was treated at State under a GOP President. One of Bush's most egregious errors was choosing a liberal trouble-maker like Powell for a cabinet slot; Condi should've gotten State right from the start. Protecting Armitage so that Scooter Libby would twist in the wind was only partial retribution, as is this endorsement of a man who rejects much of the values that Powell ostensibly championed throughout his career (sort of difficult to imagine that Obama "loathes the military" any less than Bill Clinton) - I think Powell will be reliably causing mischief for Republicans forever. One saving grace, I believe, is that Powell's reputation isn't what it once was; I doubt that he'll influence many votes.

Meanwhile, the RealClear average is less than 5 points now, after being above 7 just last week. And Sarah was great on SNL. And the story about Obama and Ayers sharing an office for three years instantly brought to mind Lee Harvey Oswald, for some reason.

Rick Ballard

Nobody is impressed with HObama's ability to reach across the aisle and gain the support of another affirmative action hire?

I've got you beat Sue - I lost all respect for Powell when he wet his pants over press reports of our bombing the Iraqi withdrawal from Kuwait in GWI. Remember the 'Highway of Death' crap and Powell's hand wringing, followed by his gutless action in not forcing Saddam to participate in the surrender? I rank him right up with Wesley Clark among the worst military men of the past twenty years.

M. Simon

What I don't get is why folks like Buffet, Turner, etc are all for Obama.

They expect to make more buying distressed small businesses than they lose in taxes.

matt

I agree, Hate....Powell is a huge disappointment. After what he did to Scooter Libby and the Times reporter, though, it's not a surprise. The reporter spent a year in jail for not releasing her contact names, and then Libby was forced to cover for his boss, all the while with Powell knowing Armitage was the source of the leak. Despicable.

Maybe it's time for a new revolution. And yet McCain is still in it.

Obama is Zelig....that's the only explanation....

Sue

My opinion of Powell wouldn't be any different had he backed McCain. His reasons for backing Obama are suspect. Especially since McCain hasn't been anymore negative than Obama has. Does he (Powell) not know about the Sarah/c**t t-shirts? The Obama ad mocking McCain for not being able to use email? His scar from cancer surgery ad? Powell is a tool.

kim

This is pretty damn speculative, but if Obama is as bad as we fear, and he gives no indication of not being that bad, then a military coup may be what saves the Republic. That's a bridge pretty far, but this man has been terribly deceitful, and had it not been for BDS and the willfulness of the Press, he'd have not made it this far. We have, here in the US, checks and balances that stop his kind of foolishness in the cradle. Too bad we may have to confront it as a fully developed evil.

It may end up their duty. I'm sorry to have to have such a radical thought, but something has got to be done.

This guy is not constructive, he's destructive.
============================

kim

Rick, I think a dirty little secret is that the military shares your opinion of Powell. He'll not be a successful Sec. of Defense. He probably wants to go to the UN.
====================================

matt

by the way, what happens if McCain pulls this one off?

It would seem that the entire intelligentsia has burned their bridges to McCain beyond recognition. Who would serve in government then?

One thing is for certain. We know where people stand, and it would seem that the Republican Party elite has basically and formally committed a very formal equivalent to seppuku. Long live the New Republican Party! Maybe one day I'll register as one.

Sue

Drudge has it upfront and bold. Not about race. Underneath is a little splash of cold water. Powell tells students an African-American president would be "electrifying". Powell is not being truthful on why he is supporting a person so far to the left he is going to slide off the scale. Unless Powell was untruthful all these years he has been slightly right of center.

SunnyDay

My opinion of Powell wouldn't be any different had he backed McCain.

ITA - and the idea of McCain having him serve in his cabinet is more disturbing to me than having him serve in O's cabinet. From what I've read, Powell sabotaged Rumsfeld at every turn, thus sabotaging Bush's plan for turning Iraq over immediately - he should have resigned if he couldn't support him.

I wonder if Armitage will be with him again. They're a team.

SunnyDay

We know where people stand Yeah but McCain doesn't - never has. He's naive. Here he is, financially crippled by his own legislation, because he "reached out" - he's sincere. No one else is - best I can tell. They are users and he offers himself to be used.

centralcal

I think it is ALL about color. Not about character, integrity, or any other of many virtues.

And, honestly, I think the average Joe (whether plumbers or not) will see it this way.

Colin Powell has not been the "darling" of the muddle for many a year now.

SunnyDay

CC, I think it is all aout who will give him the job he wants - I guess we'll see. :D

glasater

then a military coup may be what saves the Republic

Kim--this thought has been roaming around my mind.

centralcal

Ah yes, SunnyDay - but with his history who will want to give him that job?

I suspect that race preference over all other considerations is a one way street that leads to Obama, but I do not think there is a lane that leads out from Obama. Just my own little suspicion.

McCain is also frustrating and would be just the sort to offer something to Powell, his old friend, in his Quixotic quest to reach across any divide.

Amused bystander

OT to Clarice: sorry had to go do something the other day and could not respond to you Moscow comments.

Right, that hotel was the Rossiya Hotel. I am amazed that you know that they took it down. How did you come by that? A "sports complex" replaces it.

Stayed there many a time both during the old days and after. Had to stay the once only 2 years ago in fact. In the old days it was hard to avoid if you were not a big shot -- almost all westerns with business in the center of the city where put there.

Famous for bad elevators, narrow halls hard beds and surly help, and heaven help you if you missed checkout time.

What is funny, is that now old hands actually feel nostalgic for the old place. Certainly the end of an era.

There was a tacky outdoor cafe immediately to the right of the east entrance (on St. Basil side) that had what I think was the best view of the Kremlin and downtown Moscow. I will always remember taking in those spectacular Moscow summer cloudscapes from there.

After the Soviets fell, lots of big motel chains came in - the Hyatts and the like, but my they are expensive. Getting a good hotel is Moscow is still difficult. The Russians tourism and hospitality industry still is atrocious (it is that way across the entire CIS region).

In later years, the Rossiya got a lot of the internal tourist trade: Oldsters from the Great Patriot War coming to the capital (or the immediate generation after). You would see them in their old style soviet suits (but not uniforms) with rows of those cheap aluminum, tin and bronze soviet medals still festooning their chests as if nothing had ever happened. It was extremely interesting to chat them up -- a real slice of history.

clarice plumber

"Right, that hotel was the Rossiya Hotel. I am amazed that you know that they took it down. How did you come by that? A "sports complex" replaces it."

AB, I went online for names of Moscow hotels to refresh my memory of that hotel's name, found it along with a note that it no longer exists.

My first recollection is that the cab left you off at what appeared to be the entrance, but you had to make it around the back to check in(with no help from any porter and no sign to guide you). On my approach I recalled talking with a darling young Italian man --It was his first trip to the USSR,, and he was in utter shock at the awful service, accommodations, food, etc.

The dzherniyas were the only hotel staff who always appeared to be on duty.

The staff at the Ukraina was even worse.

Amused bystander

Clarice: there were actually 3 or 4 "hotels" in there ( i think later there where 2). But i think that they all reported to the same "management.

There was a lobby in the center on all sides as I recall.

I bet you got left off on the south side were there was a big drive (facing the river.) That was one of the gloomier lobbies. A lot of cabs from Sheremetyevo used to let them off there beaucse thre was a lot of space there for cars.

The main lobby had this really bizarre "split level" atrium (well, ok, not really an atrium...I just do not know what to call it) setup with store to the right on you way on, and a coupled of small restaurants to the left. This entrance was on the Kremlin side.

Moscow is completely different now, but it is still the strange city it always was.

DO not know the Ukraina.

Amused bystander

sorry, WEST EXIT, not east exit.

clarice plumber

The Ukraina was one of Stalin's ziggarat special designs--matched Moscow Univ. The elevators barely ran; the food service was pokey and virtually non-existent--there was no way to charge anything so when you arrived from the airport, you had to wait in a long line to change your money to rubles before you could even buy a cup of tea and the place to buy it was closing.(Air India pilots banged on the door to demand out entry--as usual the place was closing 45 minutes ahead of the posted closing time for taking inventory, a process which involved the counting of every piece or bread and tea leaf.) The floors(parquet) were terribly uneven because the cleaners simply washed them with water --the furnishings were disgusting and frayed..I locked the door to the bathroom and couldn't get the lock to open--Luckily i had my shoes on and was apply to bang the lock open with one of them-

The porters congregated in the lobby and were unavailable to assist even though the entry was dozens and dozens of steps up from the ground and we had out luggage and lots of recording eqpt to cart up (we were videotaping depositions).

I understand now that guests are pestered at all hours by hookers.

It is, however, well-located.

Amused bystander

Is that over by the Foreign Ministry? I am in fac tno it.

One thing about the Rossiya is that they kept the prostitutes out.

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