Take Your Vitamins... And Toss 'Em

The NY Times tells us that Vitamins C and E had no effect on either cancer or heart disease in men.  But there is a bit of a caveat.  More about the studies:

Scientists enrolled 14,641 male physicians in the study, dividing them into four groups of roughly 3,600 each. The first took 400 international units of vitamin E every other day and 500 milligrams of vitamin C daily; the second, vitamin E and a placebo vitamin C; the third took vitamin C and placebo vitamin E; and the last only placebos. Neither the subjects nor the scientists knew which groups were taking the active vitamins.

After eight years, the researchers found no difference among the groups in the incidence of heart attack, stroke, congestive heart failure or angina. And taking the vitamins did not reduce the need for cardiac revascularization, a surgical operation to restore adequate blood flow to the heart.

And from the cancer article:

A large clinical trial of almost 15,000 male doctors taking vitamins E and C for up to 10 years has found that neither supplement had any effect on cancer rates, including cancer of the prostate.

But are doctors really representative of the general population?

Dr. Andrew Shao, vice president for scientific and regulatory affairs at the Council for Responsible Nutrition, a trade association representing the supplement industry, said the group of physicians who participated in the trial were not necessarily representative of the general population. If they were healthier overall and ate a more nutritious diet, he said, it would be hard to detect a clear difference between the supplement users and those taking a placebo.

“Do we really have a placebo group — people with zero exposure? None of these physicians had zero vitamin C and E,” he said.

Here is their truly eye-opening conclusion:

“At the end of the day,” he added, “this serves as a reminder that we should get back to basics: keeping your body weight in check, being physically active, not smoking and following a good diet.”

Unacceptable. America wants salvation in a bottle.  Or jar.

Comments

[ljm]

I take c, e, d and a whole bunch of other supplements including turmeric, cinnamon, calcium and fish oil. Did the study show increased death or other negatives in the supplemented groups because other studies have shown that e increases the incidence of death.

[Boatbuilder]

I recall a similar study with British physicians essentially demonstrating that regular and relatively heavy consumption of alcoholic beverages generally coincided with longer, happier and healthier lives. I found it extremely persuasive and have structured my own health regimen around it.

[clarice]

Heck, your mom gave you the same advice for free.

[Boatbuilder]

I wasn't thinking about TM's last line about "salvation in a bottle" when I posted. Honest.

[Barney Frank]

I spent countless hours researching this stuff when my wife was diagnosed in 05. Vitamins are vitamins; there is probably no benefit from more than your body can use, which is rather less than most of the mega doses proponents advocate.
However there is evidence that selenium, turmeric (as ljm alluded to) and tocopherols (compunds related to Vit E) among others can be helpful.
There are currently several interesting studies of something called Alpha TEA, an analog of vit E, which appears extremely potent in mice with cancer. Whether it translates to humans remains to be seen.

[clarice]

Actually, my doctor just called to say my annual tests showed I was low on Vit D (necessary for bone strength) and she perscribed a dose of super Vit D, and I try to get plenty of Fish Oil and tumeric (broccoli and esp broccoli sprouts are useful, too, for good health.

[clarice]

**PREscribed***

[cathyf]

Clarice, ya gotta get into the sun. In other words, get out from behind the computer and go outside.

(Or get a laptop and take the computer outside with you...)

[clarice]

It was very grey snowing a little today,cathy--just a sprinkle but there it was on the windshield as I drove home from my Pilates lesson--next week I'll get sun when I visit my son and his family in L.A...

[rhodeymark]

I swear by fish oil now - saw total chol drop from 243>205 and bad LDL go from 158>136 without any change in diet or weight. 3 grams a day with 60% Ω3 (EPA/DHA) content.

[clarice]

Yes. Fish oil is a keeper.

[Coofspoiree]

Зачет! и ниипет!

[narciso]

Wasn't the big claim of Vitamin C, was about combating scurvy; and speaking of the Holder appointment (rimshot) the Marc Rich pardon and the Elian rendition could have been worse though; they haven't appointed
Bernardine Dohrn to anything yet. I'm trying to see what would be a doppelganger liberal outrage, John Bolton for Secretary of State; who was one of the scouts for the GOP out in the tundra.It's going to be a long four years.

The way we feel about Gov. Palin was epitomized by a commenter on Gerald Van Derleun's site, American Digest, which piggybacked off the Republican penchant for
craving death; finding the most tone deaf forms of political expression; Newt's gentle stiletto to Sarah on Face the Nation; is the latest example, (what is this, "A Star is born." They find a
candidate that energizes the base in a way not seen Reagan; because of her record, her manner, and straightforwardness and they want her to wait her turn. This though intrigued MK Freedberg at House of Eratosthenes, which prevoked Gerald's comment. One typically astute commenter, ask mom put it best." A new sheriff rode up in a snowmobile. Get over it"

[bad]

...they haven't appointed Bernardine Dohrn to anything yet.

I've wondered if she would get quietly slipped into some post while all of the attention is on Ayers. Maybe whatever Jones-Kelley was originally slated for...

[bgates]

America wants salvation in a bottle. Or jar.
Or ballot, hello.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

There are starting to be large numbers of people deficient in Vitamin D due to the increased use of high # sunblockers. You need to get at least 10 to 15 minutes of sun exposure a day in order to keep the D levels up.

Drinkers need extra B-12, as do those with any type of metabolism problems, and those who suffer from anxiety and/or depression should be taking a good B-100 time release.

I noticed an odd correlation in my own wellness, when I realized that during periods where I was not taking a good multi-vitamin, like Centrum Silver, each day, my craving for sweets/chocolate went up. My doctor thought it was nuts at first, but later said he read a study that came to a similar conclusion. Don't know the reasons why behind this, but can say from 20 years of experience that it is true. I think it may be an energy thing and that the brain tries to compensate with a sugar high.

I suffer from iron and potassium deficiencies if I'm not careful, so I take prescription level doses of each. The iron every day, but the potassium only as needed. I always know because I start to get muscle cramps and swollen ankles when my potassium is low.

And, of course, all women of child bearing years and especially after menopause need a good calcium/magnesium supplement or one of the newer osteoporosis meds like Actonel, Boniva, etc.

[Mustang0302]

I recall an advertisement that used to run during the Grand Ole Opry, on WSM radio from Nashville, for a product called "Exercise in a Bottle." At the end of the ads, the announcer blazed through a sotto voce "disclaimer" basically denouncing the stuff.

Haven't heard anything of it since, but checking up on it just now, I see even Steve Garvey used to pitch the stuff.

Looks like somebody eventually sic'd the FTC on 'em.

Weight loss and good health in four words:

Eat less, move more.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

BTW, there are several studies that are linking the increased incidence of autism to the decreased use of Cod Liver Oil for babies and toddlers. Parents have replaced what was a ritual when I was growing up of getting your dropper full of Cod Liver Oil with Flintstones. The lack of Vitamin A with young children seems to be one of the problems in autism.

[sylvia]

So Tom did you catch the NYT Science section last week? (or was it the week before). Anyway they had a whole section on DNA, and that what we know on it is old fashioned already. RNA is where it's at now. They say DNA is the light switch, but RNA is the dimmer. Apparently there are thousands and thousands of sections of RNA codes responsible for all kinds of important things. So that's what we need to learn about if we really want to solve cancer, etc. But it's going to take a long long time before we get a handle on all these codes and what they do.

[Sara (Pal2Pal)]

Sylvia: I didn't read the NYT article, but I saw something similar on the Discovery channel recently. Apparently, the human genome is way way more complicated in the interactions than first thought. The changes RNA can have make every gene have thousands of different combinations, heretofore unknown, that then has an effect on what that gene does or does not do. It is a fascinating area of study that makes me wish I had become a research scientist.

[DrJ]

I'd put it more that the DNA controls the range of what is possible ("the blueprint"), RNA largely controls what is expressed, but the proteins, including their post-translational modifications, is where the action is. That's why I work on proteins.

[bad]

That's what I was gonna say but Dr.J beat me to it. Darn!

[DrJ]

Gotta be quicker, bad. :)

Interestingly, the recent Nobel prize in Chemistry was awarded for Green Fluorescent Protein, a material I use a lot. It is wonderful under the fluorescence microscope.

[bad]

DrJ, is that the one that makes animals glow in the dark?

[glasater]

Sara--I would check on iron deficiencies for women after menopause. Men have a higher rate of heart attacks than women and women after menopause have a higher rate of heart attack because of too much accumulation of iron in the body.

As far as potassium--eat a banana. It's much safer that taking a supplement.

[matt]

can green fluorescent protein be used at parties? Sounds like just the thing to liven up someone's cocktail.

narciso, remember, even Reagan lost the first time he ran. The experience made Palin stronger and wiser in the ways of elections, and will help her come back stronger should she decide to do so.

There are a few of parallels between Reagan and Palin. Both governors, both ridiculed by the left, and both with strong common sense and a way of speaking directly to people and their issues, thereby short circuiting nusiness as usual in DC.

She now needs to build a team that can take on basically all of Washington. Actually, it sounds pretty exciting to me.

[Ann]

Anyone know of a vitamin for sadness? My four year old dog is at the animal hospital tonight. They think she has canine pancreatitis. It sure has been a wretchedly bad year.

Someone cheer me up. :(

[matt]

sorry to hear that, Ann....

[MarkO]

OT from DOT

The River gave me this treat and asked that I pass it on to his friends here. He is doing better.

http://www.tfp.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1133

[Laura]

Anne,
I made some very rich brownies today with extra Ghiradelli chocolate and pecans. I have etras. Will that work?

[bad]

I'm so sorry Ann.

[Fosphorescen]

Harvard? Obama uses like Harvard business and we all do now, but that was Bill, I mean John, so the x > experimental group really came from space, I mean lucifer creation, and they have figured out Obama is a space luciferian and not evolution into lucifer's reflection as a non human?

I published mine right away so people could sue, but I use it as a signature for some writing and art work. LHD

[Ann]

Funny, how we are all baking these days. Sounds delicious, I love pecans. Send 'em over.

[bad]

LSD?

[DrJ]

is that (GFP) the one that makes animals glow in the dark?

Yes, that and related molecules. Once it was discovered (from jelly fish) the sequence was modified to give proteins that fluoresce at all sorts of wavelengths.

can green fluorescent protein be used at parties? Sounds like just the thing to liven up someone's cocktail.

I suppose, but you have to *really* want to do it. The stuff costs hundreds of dollars for about 50 milligrams. You would also need a UV source, like a black light. That may not have enough intensity: I use a 100W Mercury lamp in my microscope, and then an optical sequence to focus that light on a very small spot, transmit it to the viewing optics, filter out the incident light, and then view it. Even then you have to keep the stray light down -- that is, the room has to be dark.

There are other chemist's things you can use for parties, like certain pH indicators. You don't see them in the drink, but the urine comes out as red or green. Works better for men.

[sbw]

Ann, my aunt has rescued Hungarian Vislas. She has about four under her belt. They varied: strong dogs, a puppy mill mom, an abused dog. She's also taken care of other people's dogs all her life. She says the only thing wrong with dogs is that their lives are about four times shorter than they ought to be.

It's to bad that is the way, but I'm happier to have had our dog's good times and memories that I can recycle when I need them, as I pass through my own short time here.

During the ups and downs you know where we are for company.

[The Offspring from Splinter]

Can't Get My Head Around You

[clarice]

I'm sorry to hear that, Ann. I hope tomorrow looks better.

fluorescence? Hmm.I remember--and so does my husband the great Fluoroscope machines that used to be in shoe stores to prove to parents that the shoes they were buying for their kids actually fit.
Not only did we stick our feet into the right slots at the bottom, but our fingers, hands, whatever parts of our younger siblings were handy.
Between that, standing up in rumble seats of moving cars, sucking on lead painted toys, it's a wonder any of us didn't die on the spot.

[DrJ]

Between that, standing up in rumble seats of moving cars, sucking on lead painted toys, it's a wonder any of us didn't die on the spot.

Don't forget the Mercury from Thermometers, and the Benzene in High School Chemistry (if you took it). By today's health standards we should all be dead already, at least according to the environmentalists.

I don't mean to sound too glib, though, since a close friend, a medicinal chemist, has serious health issues -- mesothelioma (sp?) brought on by radiation treatment of Hogkin's -- from the solvents he used in the old days.

Still, many of today's concerns are way overstated.

[clarice]

The mercury from thermometers was so much fun to play with only the likely walloping we'd have gotten from deliberately breaking the thermometers kept us from playing with it as much as we'd have liked to.

You bet these threats are way overblown.

[Ann]

MarkO:

Thanks for posting that from DoT. Everyone should read it. I am afraid it just sent me over the top, and it is hard to type with tears. God Bless the Marines.

Col. John Walter Ripley

Is that a picture of our DoT? Is he Captain Tom Ripley?

[clarice]

No, he's not Ripley.

[Jane]

Ann,

I'm so sorry about your dog. And Tom is not Capt Ripley. Sounds like he knew him tho.

[MayBee]

Oh Ann, your poor doggie. I'm sorry to hear about him.

[DrJ]

Clarice,

Hmm.I remember--and so does my husband the great Fluoroscope machines that used to be in shoe stores to prove to parents that the shoes they were buying for their kids actually fit.

I delayed responding to this part, because I simply have no idea what these machines are or do.

I'd be surprised if they use fluorescence, which is an optical technique that detects the change in wavelength between an incident and emitted light beam. You can see it when you hold a piece of paper with a stripe of highlighter under a black light (one example), but I don't see the connection to shoes.

Making contact explosive ("touch powder") from kitchen materials was fun, too.

[Daddy]

Does anyone know if there is the slightest vitamin/nutritional value in SweetTarts? The yellows and oranges are so darn good I can't imagine that there isn't something citrusy in them. Heels up 20 over Kentucky---WoooHooo!

[bad]

They were X-Rays, DrJ.

[DrJ]

Ann,

I too am saddened to hear about your dog's health. It is really hard to watch their health decline. Sigh.

[bad]

Daddy, SweetTarts are medicinal. More is better.

[DrJ]

They were X-Rays, DrJ.

Really? In a shoe store? Wow. I missed that one, and there is no way that would be done today.