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November 30, 2008

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Rick Ballard

"We are very close to having all of the money we need to build the prototype," Bernitsas says."

I wonder how long it will take at the PT Barnum rate of one per minute? I suppose the other factor is the inflated cost of a ticket to see the Egress these days. A nickel just doesn't go as far as it did when PT was collecting them.

How many of these Irving Berlin Specials are going to be peddled before we get serious and start building the nukes to actually produce some cheap power?

kim

The wind, the water and the sun are the climate's natural regulators. Anything that takes energy from them disturbs, with unforseeable consequences, the natural regulating mechanisms.

This one will just cause silt accumulation, which will take more energy to remove than was generated by the effort.
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Pofarmer

I'm going to shamelessely bring this up from below, since it's topical. We've simply been dithering with this kind of stuff for too long. They were talking about large scale wave power in the 80's.


In my monthly Rural Electric Coop paper there is a map of electricity availability in the U.S. In 09 there are expected to be shortages in the northeast(northeast of New York, and in the west, in a line at approximately the western border of Kansas, and a large portion of Texas. In 2010 it's expected to get most of the north Western tier of statesand wrap around MO down into the rest of texas. 2011 Should get NewYork State. Bh 2012 look at the Rust belt having problems. The center and Southeast is apparently good beyond 2015. The Article states that demand is expected to increase 18% over the next decade while generation will only increase 8%. I'd assume that this is pretty well set in stone because of the time involved in permitting, then designing, then actually building the plants. Prepare for parts of the U.S. to look like Baghdad.

Pofarmer

Prototype, funded by the U.S. Department of Energy and the Office Naval Research, is currently operating in the Marine Hydrodynamics Laboratory at the University of Michigan. This device has met and often exceeded expectations; thereby, providing strong evidence to proceed to the next scale, a multi-kilowatt field demonstration.

Which means that a little bitty one works, but we don't know if we can scale it up to actually produce a useful model. And, Kim is probably right about silting in.

Pofarmer

Alternative energy is swell. In the meantime we need to be building what works. Including Nuclear and Coal. Currently the main power source being built is Natural Gas. Why??? Not because it's what the Utilitiy companies want to, but because it's what they can. It's the most expensive option behind Windpower, but it can be built and the footprint is relatively small. So, if Warren Buffet wants us to use all this Nat Gas for transport, we're gonna have to get off our butts and build some real electricity generation.

Pofarmer

Will Obama be responsible when the lights are going off in 2010?

Think about it. If we're having grid problems in 2010, it means that we are probably going to be having problems into at least the early 2020's. Adding wind power into a grid that is already critically short of power is NOT going to help.

Pofarmer

Just remember, the folks who are the ones who are gonna oversee the crash of our Electric grid wanna oversee your health care. What could go wrong?

kim

Some lovely physicist, I can't right now track down which one, said that when he died he wanted to ask God two questions: Why relativity, and why turbulence?
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PaulL

Does it matter if it works or not? It's either this or face fines from the International Court for the Environment (see today's Drudge Report).

Obama couldn't possibly decide to opt out of the International Court for the Environment, could he? Wouldn't that be Bushlike?

Barney Frank

If I buy a small one and put it on top of the 100 mile per gallon carburetor Big Oil has been suppressing for the last forty years will I then get 500 mpg?

Pofarmer

If I buy a small one and put it on top of the 100 mile per gallon carburetor Big Oil has been suppressing for the last forty years will I then get 500 mpg?

No, you'll still only get 100 mpg but you'll be able to also power a toaster oven going down the road.

kim

I love the scheme which would use the wind rushing past the car to generate electricity which would hydrolyze water and then add the hydrogen to the fuel mix. Just lovely, and the proponent doesn't understand why it's not a great idea.
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SWD

Air car.

Pofarmer

Air car.

Aren't all cars air cars?

You take in air, mix it with a dab of fuel, combust it, and voila, propulsion.

narciso

Heinlein's "the Crazy Years" that's the only explanation. leaving hydrogen to mix with other fuels; does the name Hindenberg
ring a bell. I guess even the law of thermodynamics is inconvenient too.; For the love of God; "somebody please make it stop" Oh that reminds of our good governor, pledge for more renewable power generation; with a minor surcharge. Guess what, it was a scam; that we're still paying for.
On kind of a positive note, they've found another enormous natural gas find inAlaska; near the North Slope. That National Guard contingent is going to be awfully busy in the next few years; staving off EPA bureacrats, Interior Department people and the like

Pofarmer

Ya know, this Prop C in MO is currently being taken care of by the Utilities buying "Green Credits", from the "Renewable Energy" providers. They won't raise rates, but, as a consumer, you can volunteer to buy these "credits". There's supposed to be safegaurds in place to insure that each provider only sells those credits once. Never mind that they already sold the power, many times at an inflated rate, now they get to sell credits too. Does anybody wanna bet that these guys AREN'T selling credits more than once? Can anybody find out if the Sierra Club is involved directly in any of these "Green Energy" projects????? I wish I knew enough of the players between the Sierra Club and Kansas City Power and Light(who was pushing Prop C) to see where the money(and lot's of it) was flowing.

Rick Ballard

Pofarmer,

I'm going to start thinking of "Green Credits" as a type of gris gris - a ward against the evil spirit CO2. If you pay enough for the gris gris you never have to face the CO2 Monster. That's the most rational explanation that I can come up with and it works with today's political atmosphere perfectly.

Think of how it fits with the Fed Houngans animating corpses (vide ZombieIG, Zombiegroup and ZombieMotors.

Charlie (Colorado)

Which means that a little bitty one works, but we don't know if we can scale it up to actually produce a useful model.

So what? That's what all engineers do: chemical engineers are particularly notorious for having reactions that will work in a Florence flask but won't scale. And ask I.G. Farben about the issues of scale that arise with large quantities of ammonium nitrate.

clarice

I can't believe TM beat PUK to this one.. I think we'd sell this concept more easily, if we had a BayWatch type technical team like Qadaffi's all girl security force,touting it.

Frau Jedöns

From Consumer Freedom 4 Sep 2003:
But in April, the Sierra Club elected "Captain" Paul Watson--one of the fathers of environmental terrorism--to its Board of Directors. ... And he has hatched a plan to wrest control of the Sierra Club. At the Animal Rights 2003 conference in Los Angeles, Watson explained his strategy: "One of the reasons that I'm on the, um, the Sierra Club board of directors right now is to try and change it...we're only three directors away from controlling that board. We control one-third of it right now. And, uh, once we get three more directors elected, the Sierra Club will not, no longer be pro-hunting and pro-trapping and we can use the resources of the $95-million-a-year budget to address some of these issues. And the heartening thing about it is that, in the last election, of the 750,000 members of the Sierra Club, only 8 percent of them voted. So, you know, a few hundred, or a few thousand people from the animals rights movement joining the Sierra Club--and making it a point to vote--will change the entire agenda of that organization." ...
Watson also declared "there's nothing wrong with being a terrorist, as long as you win."

Frau Jedöns

From Consumer Freedom 4 Sep 2003:
But in April, the Sierra Club elected "Captain" Paul Watson--one of the fathers of environmental terrorism--to its Board of Directors. ... And he has hatched a plan to wrest control of the Sierra Club. At the Animal Rights 2003 conference in Los Angeles, Watson explained his strategy: "One of the reasons that I'm on the, um, the Sierra Club board of directors right now is to try and change it...we're only three directors away from controlling that board. We control one-third of it right now. And, uh, once we get three more directors elected, the Sierra Club will not, no longer be pro-hunting and pro-trapping and we can use the resources of the $95-million-a-year budget to address some of these issues. And the heartening thing about it is that, in the last election, of the 750,000 members of the Sierra Club, only 8 percent of them voted. So, you know, a few hundred, or a few thousand people from the animals rights movement joining the Sierra Club--and making it a point to vote--will change the entire agenda of that organization." ...
Watson also declared "there's nothing wrong with being a terrorist, as long as you win."

DrJ

chemical engineers are particularly notorious for having reactions that will work in a Florence flask but won't scale.

Usually the ChEs bail out the *chemists* from these sorts of issues. Mixing (or more generally, mass transfer) and heat transfer are the two usual culprits.

But yeah, engineers are all about scale-up.

SlimGuy

There are working wave power units out there right now being life cycle tested.

Portugal has several types of units under life cycle analysis right now.

There is an estimated 2 Terra Watts of ocean swell wave power world wide which more than exceeds today's total generation capacity.

Half the population of the US lives within 75 miles of the ocean.

Generate power offshore and feed it to the local grid and the national grid has a major load taken off of it.

kim

The wind, the water, and the sun are the earth's natural climate regulating forces. Mess with them and the consequences, unintended though they be, are unpredictable. 'Sustainable' is a hoax.
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Pofarmer

I'd just like to point out that underwater is not the ideal place for electrical transmission.

sophy

We all love game, if you want to play it, please buy cheap knight gold and join us.

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Wilson/Plame