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March 19, 2009

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Cecil Turner

Well, in this case they happen to be right: it's a distraction. However, it's a distraction touted by our demagogue-in-chief as a "core principle" and hence worthy of discussion (or derision, or whatever). And personally, I'd rather these folks be distracted rather than energized to implement more of their wrongheaded agenda, so . . .

clarice

Can't we find a secret spy who can claim that Geithner outed her?

Donald

Whatever happened to that Kos dude?

Laughner

For the last time, you wingnuts --

JOURNO LIST IS NOT AN ECHO CHAMBER!!!
an echo chamber!
an echo chamber!
an echo chamber...

Lycurgus

You've done us us all a service. The evidence is irrefutable that the JournoList members are just an extension of the White House spin machine. Of course, that's why they wanted to keep that secret in the first place to maintain that "journalistic" independence.

TigerHawk

I think Nicholas Kristof (a J-Lister himself??) was on to something this morning:

"One 12-nation study found Americans the least likely to discuss politics with people of different views, and this was particularly true of the well educated. High school dropouts had the most diverse group of discussion-mates, while college graduates managed to shelter themselves from uncomfortable perspectives."

Appalled

It's a distraction that is putting people doing a thankless job at risk. (Of course, since it's the Demos who have ginned up the outrage factor on this, the "Tail Gunner Joe" award has to go to Obama and Barney Frank.)

Since your story, TM, does not have much of a human face, I don't think its going anywhere -- with or without the help of the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy and List-Serv.
Maybe you need a countdown of how many days of the Obama Admistration we have had without a plan for dealing with the bank mess.

clarice

Richard m, That is very funny.

Donald

1/20/13, Go USA!

Jim Ryan

why couldn't they just designate one message as the JL

We need to get rid of the plethora of journalists and news sources. The WH and Congress should set up a state news agency and tax the gross sales of all other news sources at 100%. That way the public would understand about how good the government's policies are.

Charlie (Colorado)

morally I don't see any reason not to treat them as if they were in Chapter 11 like any other failed company.

Drum almost has it. Now, if he were to think about the employees of a company already in bankruptcy, and how such a company keeps their most important or skillful employees through the process of reorganizing, and whether they get in line with the other creditors, he'd have it.

Paul Zrimsek

I dunno, Drum's "Bail them out 'cause they're too big to fail, then treat them as failed anyway" strikes me as pretty darned original.

matt

this reminds me of a Frank Zappa song from many years ago;

"You will obey me while I lead you
and eat the garbage that I feed you
Until the day that we don't need you
Don't go for help, no one will heed you
your mind is totally controlled
It has been stuffed into my mold
And you will do as you are told
Until the rights to you are sold"

lock step lemmings all chanting the same mantra as they take us over the falls.....

jorod

Today they tax AIG. Tomorrow it's Main Street, folks. See how fast the Democrats can raise taxes..!!!! They love raising taxes....

kim

Note how this is all Axelrodspeak.
=================================

Charlie (Colorado)

I dunno, Drum's "Bail them out 'cause they're too big to fail, then treat them as failed anyway" strikes me as pretty darned original.

Seriously, that's not a bad way of explaining what's really happening with AIG. It's too big to allow to just collapse chaotically, so it's being reorganized in an orderly fashion.

pagar

Over at Drudge they are finally wondering:

Who is behind the teleprompter blog?

Over here at JOM, people have been wondering for several years now--Who is behind the teleprompter?

If only we could see his birth certificate. Or at least a certificate of authenticity for the teleprompter.

T

Karl Rove, you magnificent bastards!

DanMan

it reminds me of another Zappa song...just insert Obama for pyjama/Po-jama and you will see he nailed it 30 years ago.

Some people's hot
Some people's cold
Some people's not very
Swift to behold
Some people do it
Some see right through it
Some wear pyjamas
If only they knew it

The pyjama people are boring me to pieces
Feel like I am wasting my time
They all got flannel up 'n down 'em
A little trap-door back aroun' 'em
An' some cozy little footies on their mind

Po-jama people!
Po-jama people, people!
They sure do make you sleepy
With the things they might say
Po-jama people!
Po-jama people, people!
Mother Mary 'n Jozuf, I wish they'd all go away!

Po-jama people!
It's a po-jama people special . . .
Take one home with you, save a dollar today
Po-jama people!
Po-jama people, people!
Wrap 'em up
Roll 'em out
Get 'em out of my way
Hein nya-nya-hein nya-nya-hein nya-nya-hein
HOEY! HOEY! HOEY!
Wrap 'em up
Roll 'em out
Get 'em out of my way
Hein nya-nya-hein nya-nya-hein nya-nya-hein
HOEY! HOEY! HOEY!
Wrap 'em up
Roll 'em out
Get 'em out of my way
Hein nya-nya-hein nya-nya-hein nya-nya-hein
HOEY! HOEY! HOEY!

kim

You see, this is an Axelrod screw-up. The attempt was to further demonize Wall Street, in the public's mind Republicans, but we know better, and it has failed and become a Democratic circular firing squad. Time to sweep it under the carpet. That's why all the streetsweepers are out early.
================================================

OxyCon

Now you can add JournoList member Ben Smith to the fold:

AIG reality check

The horse has, of course, long left the barn on this, but a trader emails with amazement on the all-consuming AIG bonus story:

The Fed yesterday committed to buy $1.5 trillion in assets, and all that we are talking about today is $146 million in bonuses for traders at AIG. I understand the politics and the optics of the situation but this is getting ridiculous. People need to get some perspective.

Just to do the math, the bonuses are equivaent to .001% of just today's new government spending.

By Ben Smith 02:32 PM

happy1ga

Good catch on your posting. Nice blog.

Ezra Klein

It may not work to just say this flatly, but there was no thread about this on JList. No coordination. (Indeed, I don't know of any time when people coordinated blog posts through Jlist, but I doubt I can convince anyone of that.)

As for this AIG thing, I wrote my post before noticing Noam's. Kevin and Matt have been reading, and linking, to me since long before I started Journolist. It's an obvious point! Sometimes people simply agree about things.

bgates

It's too big to allow to just collapse chaotically, so it's being reorganized in an orderly fashion.

I think it would be useful to formalize the process in case someday another financial institution needs to be restructured due to an inability to pay its creditors, instead of turning loose bands of Visigoths and packs of wild dogs on the place, which I gather has been the practice until now.

The first thing we need is a compound noun to indicate the concepts "financial institution" and "failure".

M.E.

Nice roundup. The lefties have always been their own mindless echo chamber, haven't they?

kim

Useful Idiotic Mouthpiece!
===========================

kim

Methinks he protesteth overly much. Co-ordinated or not, it's moronic.

Furthermore, we caught Axelrod saying this just before everyone else.
=======================================

kim

Go read a little Orwell. A real liberal. Start with 'Road to Wigan Pier'. You fake hack.
======================================

Charlie (Colorado)

bgates, you're on the right track. Especially the image of Visigoths and wild dogs. See, AIG, American International Group, owns assets in dozens of sovereign domains. Allowed to fail willy-nilly, there would have been court proceedings in probably at least twelve states, since insurance is regulated by the states; the federal courts, since bankruptcy is handled by the federal courts; and in the various court systems of the UK, France, Switzerland, Germany, Japan, China (in Hong Kong, which introduces some extra complexity), Korea, Singapore, and I'm probably skipping some. India and Indonesia, maybe. Oh, and almost certainly the Cayman Islands and Bermuda.

All of them insisting that they had precedence for any assets.

While a dozen other big firms had to mark their AIG assets to "market", causing cascading collapses, each of which would also end up in the courts of God alone knows how many states and foreign countries.

Catching on, here? There's at least one good reason people are thrashing about and don't know quite what to do with this: there really haven't been bank/investment firm failures of this scale before.

As the Romans learned, the problem with loosing the Visigoths, is that loose Visigoths are hard to round up again.

kim

You know this trumped up carbon crap is REGRESSIVE? Like that, huh? Pitiful, progressive, piece of pie.

Hey, kim, why don't you tell us how you really feel?
====================================

Charlie (Colorado)

Ezra, what's worse: purposeful co-ordination, or the observation that you all so think alike that you independently wrote nearly isomorphic postings at nearly synchronous instants?

MikeH

Sorry to interrupt the message, but Mary Katherine Ham at the Standard caught this off "The Telegraph":
How's that "Special Relationship" working out for us?

I'm pretty sure the aforementioned J-Listers could have had a blast with this if it had been W, but this time all we'll hear will be this.

matt

my new blog

http://oceanaris.wordpress.com

let me know what you think.

kim

We don't believe you because it is obvious that Axelrod has putsched us all with a co-ordinated, vicious, and fascist message. If you don't realize your role, the more is the pity.
============================================

hit and run

Cecil:
Well, in this case they happen to be right: it's a distraction.

It became a distraction to them once it was revealed to be a Dodd, Geithner and Obama administration distractionalism.

At which point...

Ezra Klein:
It's an obvious point! Sometimes people simply agree about things.

...is actually completely believable.

Mike Huggins

(OK, That didn't quite work out the way I wanted it to, since I couldn't get it to go to the right part of the Standard's blog page, either scroll up for the MKH item or go directly to her link here.)Drats!

DebinNC

In 2000 Rush had a hilarious montage of lib talking heads all using "gravitas" to describe why Bush had to choose Cheney. Here's the transcript, but the audio really illustrates the absurdity of the claim that most in MSM aren't "members" of a far left echo chamber that predates JL.

kim

And here, Ezra, are the three C's upon which the co-ordinated message will fail, because they are forces beyond media manipulation: Capital, Climate, and China. Read it and gnash your teeth.
==================================================

verner

Every time we see one of these machine produced party line carboncopyblogs, we need to write JL845 in the comments section and move on.

They are quite simply not worth reading.

narciso

"The one thing about fight club is you don't talk about fight club" it would be easier to say, which one of the 'usual suspects' is not on the journolist list.
So there is not even a pretense of objectivity anymore, right,
By the way, in other news, there's been a broadside fired from beyond the 'greater 48' directly at the stimulus, incoming expected in 3,2,. . .

kim

It's Pravda and Izvestia all over again. Whatever happened to a free press? These JL845ers are all shackled together by the bonds of mind slavery whether they co-ordinate formally or not.
============================================

Amateur Reader

Ezra is wrong - he could convince me, easily. Just make the JournoList archives public.

Old Lurker

"As the Romans learned, the problem with loosing the Visigoths, is that loose Visigoths are hard to round up again."

Perfect!

Mike Huggins

Wow, That "Obama's 'Special' DVD gift" thing went viral. I can't wait to hear the special Jlist talking points on that one - more "Rush Limbaugh is mean" stuff, or whatever.

RichatUF

Ezra, a memeber of the vast left wing conspiracy and stupid. Wonder if Axeltoad drafted the distraction talking point so they can get on to the next target of their 2 Minute Hate.

Wonder what the AIG story was covering up?

Obama is shoveling a bunch of cash into GM's parts makers.

He is sending out his brownshirts to collect names in support of his budget.

conservativeinthecity

"I have to say, I'm starting to find the obsessive "what did Geithner/Obama know and when did he know it" line of questioning a little tedious.

Ah yes, but the constant questioning revolving around the extremely important "outing" an "undercover" CIA operative and who knew what, and when who told whom, is front page news for months!!!

daveinboca

"It may not work to just say this flatly..." so why not say it obliquely or slantwise by showing us the relevant snippets of your JList, Ezra? And if you claim there are none, remember your cred ain't great on this street.

verner

Idiots! they forget that their articles/blogs are gasp....ARCHIVED!!!!

It's going to be fun going back and comparing notes. Buffoons!!!

Noam Schieber

I doubt my ability to persuade you on this point, but there was no coordination about this on JList. No discussion. (As a matter of fact, I can't recall a single instance of blog post coordination through Jlist, but you'll have to take my word on that.)

As for this AIG matter, I wrote my post before noticing Ezra's. George S and Matt have been reading, and linking, to me for years. Besides, lots of people agree on this! That happens sometimes.

Matt Yglesias, Dalton 99, Harvard 03 (magna cum laude)

One despairs of using reason to convince conservatives on the matter, but JList flatly had nothing to do with AIG. Nothing at all. (Indeed, the very notion of reducing the erudite discussions on Jlist to a format so necessarily vulgar as a blog could never be discussed, not that you paranoids could accept such a simple truth.)

Re this AIG business: I wrote my post before noticing Kevin's or Ezra's. Noam started reading me almost a decade ago, and linking me soon thereafter. Of course progressives agree! We're all smart, so we're generally all correct.

bad

Are there any US citizen AIG employees earning less than $250,000 per year after the bonus is added, who received a bonus?

If so, taxing this bonus at 90% means Obama will break his promise about "not one more dime of taxes if you earn less than $250,000."


Markos Moulitsas

Supid fucin Bushbots we dont talk about your AIG criminal buttbuddies. JList is for smart talk about progressive shit not getting instruction like you do from KARLROVE.

verner

Noam dear, here's a quarter, call someone who cares.

You and your JList buddies give the phrase "herd of independent minds" completely new meaning. If you have nothing to hide MAKE THE MEMBERS OF THE LIST PUBLIC. If not, get used to people thinking you're a tool and a fool.

George Steph.

Quick note while I prep for This Week -
This is a tough crowd, but for what it's worth, we just don't talk at the level of individual blog post topics on JList. It's a big-picture forum.

Is it the case that several individuals who share a capacity to make inferences might be spurred to write about similar topics after being presented with a common fact pattern? Sure. But that's hardly news.

Elliott

Posted by: Noam Schieber

The JOM Poltergeist either needs to consult with the Spelling Gestapo or stop posting under that moniker.


Hamsher's Louboutins

Coincidence. Pure coincidence. Great heels click together.

Charlie (Colorado)

Hm.

"Ezra":

It may not work to just say this flatly, but there was no thread about this on JList. No coordination. (Indeed, I don't know of any time when people coordinated blog posts through Jlist, but I doubt I can convince anyone of that.)

As for this AIG thing, I wrote my post before noticing Noam's. Kevin and Matt have been reading, and linking, to me since long before I started Journolist. It's an obvious point! Sometimes people simply agree about things.

"Noam":

I doubt my ability to persuade you on this point, but there was no coordination about this on JList. No discussion. (As a matter of fact, I can't recall a single instance of blog post coordination through Jlist, but you'll have to take my word on that.)

As for this AIG matter, I wrote my post before noticing Ezra's. George S and Matt have been reading, and linking, to me for years. Besides, lots of people agree on this! That happens sometimes.

I like subtle jokes.

verner

Matt Yglesias, Dalton 99, Harvard 03 (magna cum laude)

Is this a joke? Come on.

Kevin Drum

From the minor subject of AIG, wingnuttia has now descended to the...what's Reynold's favorite, "nano"-level "scandal" of JList. JList members don't need to share notes on AIG. We have a common political framework, and usually respond to public policy matters with a generally shared tone. Does everyone who aces the SAT "coordinate", or do we all just get the answers right?

David Axelrod

Yeah man, conservatives aren't always groovy enough to get it, but I had nothing to do with spreading the message to JList about AIG. Nothing at all. I just find new ways to say old things, and then shift the blame to someone else when it blows up in my face. Like when your friend exhales right when you're leaning over him to get the Doritos.

Ok. About AIG, which nobody is talking about.
I made the call that nobody cares about it before I ever even heard of Matt or Kevin or Ezra. Noam started reading me almost a decade ago, and writing the same kinds of things I say soon thereafter. Of course progressives agree! We're all smart, so we're right, and if you don't agree I'll write a bill calling for social justice and give it to Ambinder to write up as his own idea.

Charlie (Colorado)

Hit, is that you?

Glenn Greenwald's Gotkas

As I said when Dodd changed his story he really wasn't changing his story. Sure it was he who put in the AIG bonus exception but everyone would have been excepted out if it weren't for him. Also Geithner made him do it.
Everybody-Does my tuchis look fat in this samba?

bgates

I think Ezra was really Ezra.

Axelrod may well have been Axelrod.

That's all I'm sayin'.

verner

That's my guess Charlie...Hit's fingerprints are all over this baby. he's so damned gooood.

Ayn Rand

Abolish socialism! Smash the State!

Ignatz Ratzkywatzky

In this thread, Markos, Matt, Noam and Ezra are killing me. :)

Now onto what I'm surpised hasn't been mentioned; why has this suddenly become such a nugatory story?

Of course it's because we just learned yesterday that it was Barry who insisted this be inserted by Dodd into the porkulus.
Had we learned yesterday that is was due to Bush's Treasury Dept insisting on it Noam, Ezra etal would undoubtedly consider it perhaps the most outrageous event since Dick Cheney made it out of DC in anything other than an orange jumpsuit.

clarice

Ignatz.BINGO

kim

Omigod, bgates.
================

centralcal

bgates: you're hysterical! I needed a good laugh.

Walter Duranty

Ezra Klein deserves a Pulitzer!

Antonio Gramsci's ghost

You tell em Glen!

Ned Flanders

Lot of idiots and buffoons posting here!

No surprise.

MayBee

Dodd has a special place in a lot of the left blogger's hearts, and I'm not sure why. A lot of bloggers on the left supported him when he ran for President.

And as I said, it was probably about a week ago that Ezra had a post posing the question Is This Dodd's Moment? As if Dodd is right now on the precipice of greatness.

thibaud

Re Scheiber at any rate, it's interesting that despite TNR commenters pointing out for several days that the bonus kerfuffle is a redirect from the bigger, $169,835,000,000 f-up, Scheiber didn't pick it up until this afternoon.

iow, after the kool kids on JournoList ratified it as acceptable. Before today, Scheiber was following the herd, with about a dozen Shocked, Shocked! style posts on the bonuses.

 Ann

I &heart; bgates!

you too CC! (I cracked up reading all the love on the &heart; thread)

clarice

He's very close with commies like Chavez who is Medea Benjamin (Code Pink's head) patron and the patron of that Kennedy brat who peddles his oil to the poor here (taking it ou of the starving Venezuelan economy).
He is close also with redcelebs like Bianca Jagger who once was his girlfriend.

 Ann

oops ♥ LOL

verner

May Bee, If you'll look into Chris Dodd's past you'll find a sixties radical who has always had a soft spot for Marxists.

Look at his activities in the seventies and eighties. I think idealism has turned into rot and corruption though--as his little move for the AIG execs shows.

He is in the forefront of the pro-Cuba club.

I suspect strictly venal reasons. My guess-- Someone has already made extremely lucrative deals with the Castro brothers (can we say Michael Corleone meets George Orwell's Pigs?) and there's a pile of gold to be made the minute the US lifts the embargo.

bad

Tapper: ABC News' Teddy Davis and Huma Khan report:

President Obama called into the "The Ed Schultz" radio show this afternoon and was asked about Duke head coach Mike Krzyzewski's lighthearted jab at his NCAA picks.

Speaking of distractions...

verner

Tapper is getting soft on us.

DebinNC

Calling The Ed Schultz show? Talk about preaching to the choir.

Neo

Is Joe Klein a member ?

I seem to remember the echo when he said he had lost respect for McCain.

clarice

MayBee:"Dodd has a special place in a lot of the left blogger's hearts, and I'm not sure why."

He supports Chavez who is Media Benjamin'sw (Code Pink's) and young Kennedy's patron. He's close with redceleb Bianca Jagger who used to be his girlfriend and as far as i can tell loves every central and South American commie around.
From their point of view what's not to love.
(And until recently he got all those rich guys in Ct to send him money so he was cost free--the capitalists supporting the best friend the commies have in the Senate.)

Brian

And don't forget that Greenwald, Firedoglake, etc., etc. were all out tooting the same note about the reichwing nutters trying to blame Chris Dodd for the loophole that gave AIG the bonuses the day before Dodd admitted he was the one who put the loophole there.

Oh for a screenshot of Memeorandum. It's like an orchestra where they're all reading from the same sheet music. Because they are.

Classic.

verner

Deb, Axelrod has seen the polls and knows his potempkin teleprompter is losing the marvelous middle--and how!

Now what?!

Why shore up the base!

If these tea parties take off, expect massive demonstrations of sojourners, marxist professors, CPUSA members, ACORNs, LaRAZAs, the Teamsters and other rag tag sorts--formerly know as the antiwarantinuclearproliferationantiglobalizationantiwar movement--to protest IN SUPPORT OF their hero Barak Hussein Obama. So much for being Against da man!

They live to protest. And they know that the media will multiply their numbers by a factor of ten.

PeterUK

"Ezra Klein:
It's an obvious point! Sometimes people simply agree about things."

Any tips for the 2:30 at Goodwood?

Somebody is having a spoofing time.

This really caught the spirit of the pompous orifices of the left.

"One despairs of using reason to convince conservatives on the matter, but JList flatly had nothing to do with AIG. Nothing at all. (Indeed, the very notion of reducing the erudite discussions on Jlist to a format so necessarily vulgar as a blog could never be discussed, not that you paranoids could accept such a simple truth.)"

Charlie (Colorado)

By the way Geithner just admitted that Treasury pushed for the exemption that no one wrote for the bonuses no one knew about.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

I hate to interrupt the constant financial blogging here at JOM, but please, there is a real OUTRAGE going on and every VET and supporter needs to sign this petition.

Details at:


WTF, WTF, WTF, WTF, WTF is the Navy Thinking?

I'm begging you to sign. Please, please, please.

clarice

"One despairs of using reason to convince conservatives on the matter, but JList flatly had nothing to do with AIG"

And as I said just yesterday (and so did Ambinder, Hamsher and Greenwald, etc) One despairs of using reason to convince conservatives on the matter but Dodd had nothing to di with the AIG bonus exception. Nothing."

clarice

Yes, Sara, I raised it yesterday. I beg you all to sign my friend Gabe's petition to keep Murtha from getting this Navy award.

kim

What I really like about this is how it must make Obama think. Here, he supposedly knew about it on Thursday, so he could work up a co-ordinated outrage by Sunday, but by Wednesday Dodd's a liar and by Thursday, Treasury put the bonuses in. Now, Obama ought to be wondering whether he himself has been played. Or he'd wonder if he is anything but an extension of his teleprompter.

Note too, how he's the Hell out of Washington while Axelrod tries to unscrew this screw-up. Was he sent out, and why? We may have elected Obama the President, but he isn't the President. Who is?

I think this is a template for future crises. Get the Man out of Washington to bullshit the populace while the powers behind the throne try to sort it out. Show me I'm wrong. If I am, why isn't Obama in Washington right now, trying to soothe Congress?
===========================================

hit and run

Hit, is that you?

No. I was having dinner (grilled ham steaks, mashed potatoes, steamed broccoli and ...well... beer) and have just now gotten back to JOM.

I won't claim I could've done better, though.

Sara (Pal2Pal)

Thanks Clarice. I Twittered it this morning as well as blogged it.

The are over 4100 sigs now, but everyone needs to sign.

narciso

As Tom Lehrer said, satire is dead, they are going to put the new headquarters for Homeland Security, in one complex, on the grounds of St. Elizabeth psychiatric hospital, home of psychos, presidential assasins like John Hinckley,traitors like
Ezra Pound, what an Indian burial ground, ala Poltergeist wasn't available.

Where does one begin with this idiocy, well apparently putting in one massive, actually
two massive campuses, is a good idea, have these people seen '24, and the seasonal fate of CTU. Than we must guard against
"man made disaster" the new new euphemism for terrorism,

hit and run

bgates:
That's all I'm sayin'.

That's exactly what I meant.

PeterUK

H&R There has been a lot more "ham" here.

hit and run

Yes, PUK, but for me more beer than ham.

DebinNC

Chicago Tribune: "A "Tonight Show" spokeswoman said the president plans to chat up his economic plan and other topics with Leno over three segments. Asked if Obama will be funny, an unidentified White House official told The New York Times, "As funny as the times allow."

Can you imagine the WH focus grouping jokes and rejecting those that are too funny?

bad
The chief auditor overseeing the spending of the $787 billion in stimulus funds is warning that some waste or fraud is regrettably inevitable.

In prepared testimony before the House oversight committee, Earl Devaney says the challenge for the Recovery Accountability and Transparency Board he chairs is to significantly minimize any such loss.

Devaney warns that he thinks federal agencies will have great difficulty attracting and hiring enough contract professionals to minimize the risks associated with moving the money fast enough to accomplish the recovery act's goals.

I guess the president's promise of no waste is a non-starter. SHOCKER

LUN

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