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March 16, 2009

Comments

hit and run

That love is fully requited, MayBee.

And then some.

kim

Yes, h&r, and the brigade he re-directed from Iraq to Afghanistan had spent months learning Arabic. Obama was reckless and destructive with his commands of the Chief with that one.
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Rick Ballard

Where and how do the dirty Dem socialist prog slavers provide opportunity to achieve human dignity within the fiefs of the trashy Blue Barons? Conyers, Kilpatrick, Jackson, Rush, Waters - they are all involved in tightening the choke chains of servitude for the serfs whom they feed in exchange for votes. Until the serfs shrug off their collars, find their legs and start walking away from the Blue Barons there's not a damned thing to be done for them. Steele voices some nice syrup but he's talking to the wrong people.

I am quite capable of recognizing dignity but I'm not about to grant it on demand. It really doesn't have any more of a color than does character either.

Thomas Jackson

Steele falls victim to one of the oldest cons in the book. "Polling demonstrates minorities are as conservative as most GOP voters." Really? Then why do blacks have such high out of wedlock birth rates with Latinos not far behind? Why do both groups have such high crime rates, unless one looks at those ultra violent Americans of Norwegian or German descendent.

Perhaps Steele has not noticed that Rev Wright's church shares little in common with the average Baptist church one might encounter in Nebraska, Vermont, Tennessee or Ohio, although it appears there are many black churches that are willing to turn out and hear the Rev. Wrights message of "hope and change."

Surely Steele must believe that such groups constitute fertile grounds for the GOP but how he does so is beyond me. If demographic changes continue then the US will not be a diverse society, just a disfunctional one with competing groups based on race, gender, religion or any of the other isms that define a nation that is on the verge of collapse.

When I was a young pup I remember children and people of all ethnic groups who were proud to be Americans and drawn to the ideals of America. This has been destroyed by the race and class warfare merchants.

Those who believe in the American ideal can hardly accept the idea of affirmative action, hate crimes, or any of the other ACORN and NOW mantras that have so polluted our society.

glasater

Well said/written, TJ. Thank you.

qrstuv

Nick,
Oh, Jesus H Christ on a raft!

The charge of WMD was not, by far, the only reason to take Saddam out. It is dishonest of you to pretend it is.

sbw

Nick vs. JOM:

Game, Set, and Match to JOM.

And extra points to JOM for treating Nick's propaganda so civilly.

Captain Hate

Nick gets pwn3d at AoS as well in a much less civil manner; both sites have their levels of satisfaction since all he does is toss out accusations based on nothing factual or a deliberate misunderstanding of the issues.

Nick

where the TARP was demanded by Bush during his term

Bush DEMANDED it!!! And with a 28% approval rating, he could roll whatever opposition he had, Democratic majorities included!


Posted by: hit and run
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The point is that this crisis started on Bush's watch, not Obama's as apparently is believed by some of your fellow travellers.

Whether or not Obama supported the TARP is not relevant to the point being made.

Nick

The present condition of Iraq isn't justification for a $3 to $5 trillion dollar expenditure

lol wut? I think President DynOmite's magic stimuli have done bamboozled Nick into thinking that the Iraq war expenditures have grown from beeyuns to treeyuns.

Posted by: Captain Hate | March 16, 2009 at 11:06
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The three trillion dollar war

The cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts have grown to staggering proportionsJoseph Stiglitz and Linda Bilmes

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article3419840.ece

Nick

Nick,
Oh, Jesus H Christ on a raft!

The charge of WMD was not, by far, the only reason to take Saddam out. It is dishonest of you to pretend it is.

Posted by: qrstuv
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No, but WMD and the nonexistent connection to 9/11 were what the administration trumpeted in the ad campaign for the war.

It is dishonest of you to pretend otherwise.

Nick

You've not been paying much attention lately to Iraq. The Iraqis are seizing control of their own country and no matter how precipitously Obama pulls our troops now, they will probably make a success of the nation. It is a triumph of moderate Islam, and far preferable to the terrorist supporting, extremely sadistic monster who ruled it before.


Posted by: kim
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When we leave, as we must, the people of Iraq will engage in the usual self determination--with influences from the competing Sunni and Shiite nations.

Saddam, through our support, kept the lid on those tensions through the exercise of brutal power. We removed the lid from that pressure cooker, replaced it with the U.S. military, and once the latest lid is removed, the Iraqis will revert to conflict.

Bush bought enough time with the surge and with bribes to the factions to allow him to get out of office without it blowing up on him.

And now of course you're going to lay the blame for the coming failure on Obama--similar to the laughable attempts to shift the blame for the financial catastrophe from Bush and his failure to govern.

Nick

Your million lives is a made up Lancet canard. The present condition of Iraq, steadily improving and a bellweather for moderate Islam has been worth the price, which is far less than your 5 trillion dollars.

Posted by: kim
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The Lancet is only one of the most respected professional journals in the world. The $3-$5 trillion dollar estimate was given by Joseph Stieglitz, a Nobel prize winning economist.

You must have some impressive abilities to be able to discount their findings so cavalierly (I know, I know, it's that liberal media again, fooling everybody but you folks who bought the nonsense about Iraq from Bush).

glasater

Mt. Nick is awake and spewing stuff.

Nick

Poll: More view Afghan war as 'mistake'

John Nagl, a retired Army officer and president of the Center for a New American Security, said pessimism about Afghanistan stems from seven years of fighting and security trends continuing to point downward. Nagl said he agrees with McKiernan's strategy of using additional U.S. troops to improve security for the Afghan people, support their government and build their economy. Stabilizing neighboring Pakistan is also essential, he said.

"This is going to be really hard," Nagl said. "That said, the stakes are enormously high."

Success in Afghanistan will depend on Obama's ability to make the case for more sacrifices there, said Thomas Donnelly, a military analyst at the American Enterprise Institute.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2009-03-16-poll_N.htm

This is another mess Obama inherited from Bush.

kim

Sorry, the Lancet articles were politically motivated propaganda. Read up.

Stieglitz's estimate is on the high side, and challenged by others. Still, the gamechanger of a democratic Iraq has been a bargain compared to other scenarios.

Can't you read? Everyone, including Joe Wilson, thought that Saddam had WMD. Foolish man that he was, he wanted peope to believe that. And what about the mixed signals sent by Plame's CIA, and the treachery with which they turned on Bush?

And you still prefer the horror of Saddam over self determination by a free and diverse people? Go spout your ignorance and hate to a free Iraqi and see how far you get. Iraq is a success story so far, and the inspiration for moderate Islam over the extremists.
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kim

Again, the fact that you prefer the peace of Saddam's rule over the agony of Democracy is damning. Have you no idea of the number of people who were dying under his 'peaceful' regime? And you are probably wrong about Iraq descending into chaos after we leave. It is their own forces now who are keeping order. They are sharing the oil wealth and leaving the Arab Sunni and the Kurds enough regional autonomy.

It is very hard to believe that an enlightened citizen of Western civilization prefers the horror and despotism of Saddam to the messy blessings of democracy. You damn yourself with every word you write.
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kim

With a lot of people Lancet destroyed their respectability with those fabricated studies. Read the story of how they were finagled into publishing the first one. It is a shame, because the Lancet is an ancient and once reliable publication.
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kim

You also fail to understand that this crisis started with the Democrats preventing the Bush Administration from regulating housing causing toxic derivatives to be created which escaped regulation by the whole world, not just the Bush Administration.

And read up on the phony Boston Fed study about red-lining, which is one of the deepest roots of this crisis.

You, Nick, are adept at absorbing the lies of the left and debating them. The problem is that you've been idiotically fooled, and you think you are useful. Dig deep, with an open mind, into the points I and others here have made, and at worst you might find yourself a little skeptical about your present beliefs. At best, you would understand we are right. Start by studying the coward and traitor Joe Wilson, who believed that Saddam had WMD, and then achieved infamy for attacking our Commander in Chief, in a time of war, with lies.

Lastly, this crisis is Obama's not just because of his fiddling while Rome burns, or his obstructionism about housing regulation, but because capital deeply distrusts his urge to socialize. Socialism is counterproductive to the advancement of a free society, and he is binding shackles onto all of us. And you, with your mind already captive, are aiding and abetting him. That's why we have a credit crisis and a disaster of consumer, and voter, confidence.
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kim

One last point, and one last hope for you. I refer you to my earlier post in which I admitted that in 2003 I preferred continued talking to invasion of Iraq. What changed my mind are the Duelfer Report and the writings of Claudia Rossett. Saddam had the means and the will to WMD, once restrictions were lifted, and he had cleared a path to getting them lifted. We have shown you this over and over but there are none so blind as those who will not see. You seem to be intelligent enough, but you've been propagandized by the left. Really, I encourage you to look at this stuff objectively. History will do so, and you will be found wanting.
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Captain Hate

The present condition of Iraq isn't justification for a $3 to $5 trillion dollar expenditure

The cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts have grown to staggering proportionsJoseph Stiglitz and Linda Bilmes

Bait and switch Nick; he says Iraq, I correct him and he points out Iraq and Afghanistan. I don't believe the numbers he gets from those lowlives anyway because I checked what looked like a plausible site and it claimed under a trillion through fiscal year 2010. I'm sure his sources are like him: Low on brains and high on hatred for the USA.

Anyway even if his bogus numbers were correct, no price is too high to spread freedom throughout the world. The people of Iraq, unlike Nick, love their country and showed it by the turnout of voters who overwhelmingly supported the national parties and turned away from the religious parties. That really had to hurt Nick and his ilk, who are heavily invested in Iraq'a failure. It must really be sad to be a modern day isolationist, afraid to depose a tyrant even when there's a strategic value for the country because there's nothing in it for me.

kim

It is the same mindset that Obama had, hoping the Surge would fail so that it would hurt Bush. People like that are despicable.
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qrstuv

The folks who trumpeted the WMD (albeit backhandedly) were, same as now, the opponents to the war. Why don't you go back and read Bush's and Cheney's speeches. Check it for yourself.

The fact is lefties like yourself refused to hear any other argument, probably because you were suffering from cognitive dissonance.

I repost below something I found on the internet several years ago. Says it better than I could.
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For half a century the Left has been ragging and raging at the Right, especially the United States, for realpolitik aimed at stability. “Propping up dictators!” they cried. “Supporting death squads that oppress the people and generate misery!” And they sponsored Wars of National Liberation against the people they didn’t like.

And then one day George Bush said (paraphrasing), “Well, there’s something to be said for that view, and besides, it doesn’t even work, doesn’t provide any real stability. So from now on we’ll be deposing the dictators and trying to introduce Government based on liberal principles.”

Upon the instant came a mighty squealing and a choking cloud of blue-gray smoke, as the Left destroyed a year’s production from Michelin in a simultaneous, unbelievably coordinated bootlegger’ turn. “No, no, no! Stability and realpolitik are the only possibly ethical goals and methods! Well-run dictatorships are infinitely preferable to messy contradictory democracies.”

kim

Thank you for the Michelin metaphor. That turnabout has been one of the most mystifying things to me. It is evil, that's what it is.
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kim

Here that Nick? You are evil and stupid.
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kim

Heh, 'hear that'.
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kim

Heh, 'hear that'.
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Wilson/Plame